SDI removed 1 00:00:47,923 --> 00:00:50,255 When I tell people my story 2 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:52,883 they don't believe it. 3 00:00:52,928 --> 00:00:54,635 I guess I wouldn't believe the story 4 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,298 if someone else were telling it, but, I'm telling it 5 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:01,308 and it's true, every word of it. 6 00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:06,143 It started when I was born, 56 years ago, 7 00:01:06,191 --> 00:01:09,729 but the real story began when I was 19 years old 8 00:01:09,778 --> 00:01:11,564 and I went to college. 9 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,742 It was 1980. It was the first day of school 10 00:01:22,791 --> 00:01:25,874 at Sullivan County Community College up in the Catskills, 11 00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:28,035 about 110 miles from where I grew up. 12 00:01:28,088 --> 00:01:30,045 So, I drove up there alone. 13 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:32,297 ♪ I get the same old dreams 14 00:01:32,342 --> 00:01:34,299 ♪ Same time every night 15 00:01:34,344 --> 00:01:36,085 ♪ Fall to the ground and I wake up... 16 00:01:36,138 --> 00:01:39,426 I used to have this really old car. It was a Volvo. 17 00:01:39,474 --> 00:01:43,559 And it was a 1970 Volvo. 18 00:01:43,604 --> 00:01:45,766 Had like 130,000 miles on it. 19 00:01:45,814 --> 00:01:48,556 And the car was burgundy and the hood was green. 20 00:01:48,609 --> 00:01:50,896 Actually, the car was called the Old Bitch. 21 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:52,935 ♪ Since you been gone 22 00:01:52,988 --> 00:01:55,025 ♪ Since you been gone 23 00:01:55,073 --> 00:01:56,529 ♪ I'm out of my head... ♪ 24 00:01:56,575 --> 00:02:00,318 But the Old Bitch got me there. 25 00:02:00,370 --> 00:02:03,362 Sullivan was a community college. 26 00:02:03,415 --> 00:02:07,579 This wasn't some longstanding institution of higher learning. 27 00:02:07,628 --> 00:02:11,713 All these station wagons are dropping kids off. 28 00:02:11,757 --> 00:02:13,668 I was nervous, I'd just gotten to the school, 29 00:02:13,717 --> 00:02:17,676 I didn't know anybody. I was a freshman. 30 00:02:17,721 --> 00:02:21,089 I was never the captain of the football team in high school, 31 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:24,554 so I was never really like popular. 32 00:02:27,522 --> 00:02:31,481 So, I'm walking around trying to find where my dorm is. 33 00:02:31,526 --> 00:02:33,642 Meanwhile all these people are coming up to me 34 00:02:33,695 --> 00:02:35,060 saying "Hi, how are you?" 35 00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:41,984 "How was your summer?" 36 00:02:42,037 --> 00:02:43,903 "Mine was great. How was yours?" "Super." 37 00:02:43,955 --> 00:02:45,912 Why are they asking me how my summer was? I don't know. 38 00:02:48,293 --> 00:02:50,284 Everybody's being extremely friendly to me 39 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:51,827 and they're going out of their way to do it. 40 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,666 I don't mean just a 'hi', 41 00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:56,127 I mean, claps on the back and high fives. 42 00:02:58,553 --> 00:03:00,920 And I was a little bit bewildered by this 43 00:03:00,972 --> 00:03:03,555 because no one gets this kind of a welcome 44 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,840 on their first day at school. 45 00:03:06,353 --> 00:03:08,515 And girls were kissing me, 46 00:03:08,563 --> 00:03:12,807 like fully kissing me saying, "I'm so glad you came back." 47 00:03:12,859 --> 00:03:14,816 And I was saying 'thank you' and "hello' back 48 00:03:14,861 --> 00:03:17,319 but I had never been there before and I didn't know them. 49 00:03:18,448 --> 00:03:19,813 It was bizarre. 50 00:03:19,866 --> 00:03:22,654 And the next thing I heard from right behind me. 51 00:03:22,703 --> 00:03:26,241 "Welcome back. Eddy!" 52 00:03:26,289 --> 00:03:28,576 "Eddy! How are you? Eddy, hi!" 53 00:03:28,625 --> 00:03:30,081 I'm like, "My name's not Eddy. I don't know 54 00:03:30,127 --> 00:03:32,084 "what you're talking about. I just got up here." 55 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:33,619 "Sure, Eddy, you're really funny, 56 00:03:33,672 --> 00:03:35,162 "you're really funny, real funny." 57 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:37,297 I'm like, "I'm not Eddy. I don't know who Eddy is." 58 00:03:39,511 --> 00:03:42,879 "Welcome back, Eddy", they were all saying. 59 00:03:42,931 --> 00:03:46,970 I finally made it to this dump of a dorm room. 60 00:03:48,687 --> 00:03:51,304 Before a minute had gone by... 61 00:03:52,774 --> 00:03:55,607 ..."Who now? Who now is gonna come to find Eddy?" 62 00:03:55,652 --> 00:03:57,017 I had been at college 63 00:03:57,070 --> 00:03:59,107 the previous year with Eddy, and I knew 64 00:03:59,156 --> 00:04:01,648 that he wasn't coming back to school. 65 00:04:04,327 --> 00:04:06,068 As soon as this guy turned around, I... 66 00:04:06,121 --> 00:04:08,829 I was, I was actually shaking. 67 00:04:08,874 --> 00:04:12,663 I was... I know all color from my face dropped 68 00:04:12,711 --> 00:04:14,577 cos I knew it was his double. 69 00:04:14,629 --> 00:04:20,921 He had the same grin, the same hair, the same expressions. 70 00:04:20,969 --> 00:04:23,051 It was his double. 71 00:04:23,096 --> 00:04:26,839 And I see this guy's face and he's like... 72 00:04:28,435 --> 00:04:30,472 ...just standing there. 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,560 The first thing out of my mouth was "Were you adopted?" 74 00:04:35,609 --> 00:04:37,771 uh... and I was like, "Yes." 75 00:04:37,819 --> 00:04:42,404 I said, "Is your birthday July 12th?" He said yes. 76 00:04:42,449 --> 00:04:44,941 I was like, "July 12th 1961." 77 00:04:44,993 --> 00:04:47,155 "Oh my God", I said, "You're not gonna believe this." 78 00:04:47,204 --> 00:04:49,821 I said, "You have a twin brother. You have a twin." 79 00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:54,332 "Oh my God." 80 00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:57,119 I said, "Come with me." 81 00:04:59,633 --> 00:05:01,044 And the two of us are crammed into this phone booth, 82 00:05:01,092 --> 00:05:03,754 shoulder to shoulder and you know, we had to like, 83 00:05:03,804 --> 00:05:05,010 close the door of the phone booth. 84 00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:09,973 And I'm trying to put the coins in 85 00:05:10,018 --> 00:05:11,304 and they keep falling on the floor 86 00:05:11,353 --> 00:05:15,347 and Bobby's picking up the coins. 87 00:05:15,398 --> 00:05:16,934 And he calls this guy and he's like, 88 00:05:16,983 --> 00:05:18,439 "Hey, Eddy, you're not gonna believe this, 89 00:05:18,485 --> 00:05:19,725 "you're not gonna believe this. 90 00:05:19,778 --> 00:05:21,018 "Eddy, Eddy, you are not gonna believe this." 91 00:05:21,071 --> 00:05:24,689 This guy's more hysterical than I am - like, weirded out. 92 00:05:24,741 --> 00:05:25,856 "Eddy, you are not gonna believe this." 93 00:05:25,909 --> 00:05:27,195 So I was like, "Give me the phone." 94 00:05:27,244 --> 00:05:29,326 So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?" "Yes." 95 00:05:31,665 --> 00:05:34,703 But it was my voice that said, "Yes." 96 00:05:34,751 --> 00:05:38,369 And I said, "Hi, Eddy, my name is Robert Shafran 97 00:05:38,421 --> 00:05:40,378 "and, er... I'm meeting all these people 98 00:05:40,423 --> 00:05:42,005 "who say I'm you." 99 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:44,166 And he said, "Uh-huh, yeah, I've been getting some calls." 100 00:05:44,219 --> 00:05:48,338 I said, "Were you adopted?” and he said, "Yes." 101 00:05:48,390 --> 00:05:50,506 And I said, "When was your birthday?" 102 00:05:50,559 --> 00:05:52,266 "July 12th." 103 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:54,347 And I said, "Do you know what the name of the agency was?" 104 00:05:54,396 --> 00:05:56,979 And he said, "No, hold on." 105 00:05:59,818 --> 00:06:02,776 And I heard him go like, "Mom?" 106 00:06:02,821 --> 00:06:07,531 And he came back and he said, "Louise Wise Services."” 107 00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:11,660 Sometimes when you are just having a dream, 108 00:06:11,705 --> 00:06:14,072 you know this can't be real, this can't be real. 109 00:06:14,124 --> 00:06:16,491 But you know there's nothing you can do to stop it, 110 00:06:16,543 --> 00:06:18,409 start it, change it, you just go with it 111 00:06:18,461 --> 00:06:19,826 and that's what I was doing. 112 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,746 I just wanted to see what was gonna happen next. 113 00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:25,374 And I'm like, "Let's go. Let's go meet Eddy." 114 00:06:27,971 --> 00:06:29,928 So we got into the Old Bitch. 115 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,097 It was about 9 o'clock at night 116 00:06:36,146 --> 00:06:37,511 and it's about a two-hour ride. 117 00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:40,602 And we were speeding on route 17. 118 00:06:42,694 --> 00:06:45,311 We were going 100 miles per hour, perhaps more. 119 00:06:45,363 --> 00:06:47,900 We were speeding. 120 00:06:47,949 --> 00:06:49,815 We're driving as fast as this car would go. 121 00:06:49,868 --> 00:06:52,906 It was shaking. 122 00:06:52,954 --> 00:06:55,742 And we got pulled over by a New York State trooper. 123 00:07:01,755 --> 00:07:05,214 And as I roll down my window there's this gigantic cop 124 00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:07,716 with like the sunglasses even though it's night time. 125 00:07:07,761 --> 00:07:09,126 In the big hat. 126 00:07:09,179 --> 00:07:13,093 He said, "You know, I clocked you at 88 in a 50. 127 00:07:13,141 --> 00:07:16,008 "Son, you better have a really good reason." 128 00:07:16,061 --> 00:07:17,597 And I was like, 129 00:07:17,646 --> 00:07:19,432 "Well, Officer, you're never gonna believe this." 130 00:07:19,481 --> 00:07:22,849 The two of us are like yelling at this guy. 131 00:07:22,901 --> 00:07:24,107 "You, you don't know, 132 00:07:24,152 --> 00:07:25,938 "this guy, this guy has a twin brother, 133 00:07:25,987 --> 00:07:28,854 "he was adopted and we're going to Long Island to go see..." 134 00:07:28,907 --> 00:07:32,650 And, and, and the guy was, "Yeah, right.” You know. 135 00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:34,784 "Here's, here's your ticket have a good day." 136 00:07:37,332 --> 00:07:39,994 And on to Long Island we went. 137 00:07:46,758 --> 00:07:48,920 So, we got there. 138 00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,801 But it's like, the middle of the night. 139 00:07:52,347 --> 00:07:55,055 And it's this really quiet neighborhood. 140 00:07:57,852 --> 00:08:00,093 So, we get out of the car. 141 00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:02,854 And walk up this little path to the house. 142 00:08:04,442 --> 00:08:07,434 And the lights were on in the house. 143 00:08:10,782 --> 00:08:12,614 And I reached out to knock on the door 144 00:08:12,659 --> 00:08:15,742 and as I reached out to knock on the door it opens. 145 00:08:24,796 --> 00:08:27,959 And there I am. 146 00:08:28,008 --> 00:08:30,545 His eyes were my eyes and my eyes were his eyes 147 00:08:30,593 --> 00:08:32,880 and it's true. 148 00:08:34,556 --> 00:08:37,514 They looked exactly alike. 149 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,392 They're duplicates of each other. 150 00:08:40,437 --> 00:08:42,849 There was no doubt in my mind that they were twins. 151 00:08:42,897 --> 00:08:45,855 He's going, "Oh my God." I'm going, "Oh my God." 152 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,188 He's going, "Holy crap.” I'm going, "Holy crap." 153 00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:51,604 They just looked at each other and they moved... 154 00:08:51,656 --> 00:08:55,274 Every time Bobby moved his head, Eddy moved 155 00:08:55,326 --> 00:08:58,990 and then Eddy would move and then Bobby would move, 156 00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:01,201 like, like they were looking at a mirror. 157 00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:03,081 It was the weirdest thing. 158 00:09:05,211 --> 00:09:08,294 It was like the world faded away, 159 00:09:08,339 --> 00:09:11,172 and it was just me and Eddy. 160 00:09:15,472 --> 00:09:20,342 So, I'm in the newsroom, it's the middle of a busy day, 161 00:09:20,393 --> 00:09:22,100 we got a call from somebody 162 00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:24,603 who says they have an amazing story to tell us, 163 00:09:24,647 --> 00:09:27,685 we are not gonna believe this story, 164 00:09:27,734 --> 00:09:30,897 and my first reaction, "Ah, it's a hoax." 165 00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:34,939 So, I told our reporter, "I wanna rent a plane.” 166 00:09:34,991 --> 00:09:36,902 In those days we had enough money to do this. 167 00:09:36,951 --> 00:09:41,240 "I wanna rent a plane, I wanna see these two kids face to face 168 00:09:41,289 --> 00:09:42,529 “or I don't believe this." 169 00:09:45,794 --> 00:09:48,126 We flew the journalist up to Sullivan Community College 170 00:09:48,171 --> 00:09:51,709 and he called me and he said, "Howie, it's true, it's true. 171 00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:57,882 And I remember saying, "Oh my God, this is a great story. 172 00:09:57,931 --> 00:10:01,970 "This is a memorable heart-warming story." 173 00:10:02,018 --> 00:10:06,228 And then the story went from being amazing to incredible, OK, 174 00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:07,762 from amazing to incredible. 175 00:10:12,862 --> 00:10:16,400 I was on the New York subway. 176 00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:18,781 Quite late at night. 177 00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:24,197 Read an article about two boys who found each other. 178 00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:26,081 That were twins separated at birth 179 00:10:26,126 --> 00:10:27,287 and found each other 180 00:10:27,335 --> 00:10:29,918 at Sullivan County Community College. 181 00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,796 There was no picture, but the story was fascinating. 182 00:10:35,885 --> 00:10:40,129 I came home, and went to sleep. 183 00:10:40,181 --> 00:10:42,718 My mother came into the room 184 00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:45,850 and said, "Wake up, wake up, I have to show you something." 185 00:10:45,895 --> 00:10:48,011 And she shows me a newspaper 186 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:52,482 with a picture of two boys 187 00:10:52,527 --> 00:10:55,144 and I had to like, focus and I looked at the photograph 188 00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:57,233 and I said, "Is that David?" 189 00:10:58,616 --> 00:11:02,200 And she's like, "No, but look at the hands." 190 00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:09,954 And I was like, "Holy mackerel. This is beyond amazing." 191 00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:13,416 It was a picture in the newspaper of two guys, 192 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:16,582 in the "Post" and I picked up the picture 193 00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:18,341 and I looked at it, 194 00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:20,502 and I was like in shock, 195 00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:24,264 cos the two guys in the "Post" looked exactly, exactly 196 00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:28,268 like, like my friend David. I stared at it. 197 00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,600 And it wasn't even just the look on their face. 198 00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:32,434 It was the way that they were holding their hands. 199 00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:37,732 They have these big meaty hands. And David always had this, 200 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:39,896 these hands that looked like baseball mitts. 201 00:11:39,949 --> 00:11:46,116 And when I saw their hands, I just knew that this is David. 202 00:11:52,587 --> 00:11:54,373 It was just a normal day. 203 00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:56,754 I got to school, ran into my buddy Alan. 204 00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:59,632 He said, "David, take a look at this." 205 00:11:59,677 --> 00:12:02,135 And he's got a copy of the "New York Post". 206 00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:04,296 And, um... he opens it up 207 00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:06,215 and says, "Look at this." 208 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:07,678 "Look, look familiar?" Something to that effect. 209 00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:10,185 And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure." 210 00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:15,015 But then we looked at it a little bit more closely. 211 00:12:18,321 --> 00:12:19,561 It was an article, it said, 212 00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:22,902 "Twins reunited after more than 19 years." 213 00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:26,444 And it had a picture of two of what looked like me. 214 00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:31,828 It all started to sink in. 215 00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:34,994 "Holy shit, oh my God. 216 00:12:35,046 --> 00:12:37,629 "Do you? This is un... this is not believable, 217 00:12:37,674 --> 00:12:40,006 "this is, this is unbelievable. Wow! 218 00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:42,088 "This is big, this is serious, 219 00:12:42,136 --> 00:12:45,003 "this is just not some kind of crazy coincidence. 220 00:12:45,056 --> 00:12:47,297 "This is not a minor resemblance. 221 00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:49,216 "This is real, this is happening, 222 00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:50,885 "this is really, really serious." 223 00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:55,267 I ditched classes and got home. 224 00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:57,432 My mother was waiting at the kitchen table 225 00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:58,520 with a cup of coffee. 226 00:12:58,569 --> 00:13:00,685 And I said, "Mom, you see this?" 227 00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:04,652 She said, "You see this?" And we kinda exchanged newspapers. 228 00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:07,409 It had, "...born Long Island Jewish Hospital." 229 00:13:07,453 --> 00:13:09,945 "July 12th, 1961." 230 00:13:09,998 --> 00:13:13,662 And it was Louise Wise adoption agency. 231 00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:16,668 I mean, I always knew growing up that I was adopted. 232 00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:18,829 My parents were always open about it. 233 00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:21,999 But it said Eddy Galland of New Hyde Park, Long Island, 234 00:13:22,051 --> 00:13:24,292 Robert Shafran of Scarsdale, New York. 235 00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:25,801 I remember it said, 236 00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:28,760 "Son of prominent Scarsdale physician Mort Shafran” 237 00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:30,924 and, er... my first thought, I said, 238 00:13:30,977 --> 00:13:32,968 "He's got the wealthy family. 239 00:13:33,021 --> 00:13:38,141 "That SOB's probably driving a Benz! He got a doctor!” 240 00:13:39,736 --> 00:13:41,727 And I remember being with David in the kitchen. 241 00:13:42,947 --> 00:13:45,154 We were like, really nervous. 242 00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:48,237 I mean we were, you know, jumping around, it was... 243 00:13:48,286 --> 00:13:51,870 You know, we were 19 years old. I mean this was surreal. 244 00:13:51,914 --> 00:13:56,408 And David picked up the phone and he called Information, 245 00:13:56,461 --> 00:13:59,249 and he reached Eddy's mom. 246 00:13:59,297 --> 00:14:01,163 And I said, "Hi, is Eddy home?" 247 00:14:01,215 --> 00:14:04,128 She says, "No, who's calling, please?" 248 00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:05,713 And I thought, "OK, 249 00:14:05,762 --> 00:14:07,127 "now I've gotta go into this whole thing on the phone." 250 00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:11,515 I said, "Well, my name is David Kellman, 251 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,551 "and I was born July 12th 1961 252 00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:16,720 "and I'm looking at a newspaper 253 00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:21,313 "and, uh... basically I think I'm looking at two of me. 254 00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:23,398 "I think I might be the third." 255 00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:26,234 And I think she dropped the phone, actually. 256 00:14:26,282 --> 00:14:29,775 And I remember hearing her voice over the phone, 257 00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:32,159 "Oh my God, they're coming out of the woodwork!” 258 00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:44,836 It was a miracle. 259 00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:47,251 The first time that the boys met together, 260 00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:50,466 the three together was at my house. 261 00:14:50,515 --> 00:14:52,005 And the three of them ended up 262 00:14:52,058 --> 00:14:55,767 like puppies wrestling on the floor. 263 00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:59,555 It was the most incredible... 264 00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:01,348 it was the most incredible thing. 265 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:03,267 They belonged to each other. 266 00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:09,235 They knew each other. There was no formal introduction. 267 00:15:09,283 --> 00:15:12,571 I mean, when you meet somebody for the first time 268 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:16,614 you don't end up rolling around on the floor with them. 269 00:15:16,666 --> 00:15:20,409 It was truly not fully believable. 270 00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:22,498 Even though it was happening it was still surreal. 271 00:15:22,547 --> 00:15:24,413 You think you're dreaming. 272 00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:27,082 You're looking and you're still "Oh my God." 273 00:15:27,135 --> 00:15:28,842 You look at the other one, "Oh my God." 274 00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:30,843 And then you realize that they're looking at you 275 00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:32,595 or everybody else is looking at you too. 276 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,177 To have all three of them in the house at one time... 277 00:15:36,727 --> 00:15:39,264 It... it was really madness. 278 00:15:40,731 --> 00:15:44,144 My emotions were shock, shock and more shock. 279 00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:48,733 I mean, I can't explain it, 280 00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:51,364 I haven't got the terminology. 281 00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:55,785 One of our reporters came running over to me and said 282 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:58,037 "You're not gonna believe this, 283 00:15:58,082 --> 00:16:02,326 "you are not gonna believe the call we just got. 284 00:16:02,378 --> 00:16:04,836 "You know the two kids on the front page today? 285 00:16:04,881 --> 00:16:07,213 "Well, there's a third." 286 00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:09,841 They even moved the same way. 287 00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:13,795 All of us just sat back 288 00:16:13,848 --> 00:16:18,718 and watched three separate lives becoming one. 289 00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:22,224 The way I put it was 290 00:16:22,273 --> 00:16:24,731 I looked more like Eddy than I did David, 291 00:16:24,775 --> 00:16:26,982 and more like David than I did Eddy, 292 00:16:27,028 --> 00:16:30,020 and more like either of them than they did like each other. 293 00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:31,813 Does that make sense? 294 00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:43,166 And then we started comparing notes. 295 00:16:43,211 --> 00:16:45,748 What do 19-year-olds compare? 296 00:16:47,507 --> 00:16:53,378 Booze, cigarettes, food, women, music, cars. 297 00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:56,763 I had just brought a brand new Mercury Capri, which I loved. 298 00:16:56,807 --> 00:17:01,597 And Bobby had this, Maroon beat up old Volvo 299 00:17:01,646 --> 00:17:03,762 with cracked leather seats and I'm thinking, 300 00:17:03,814 --> 00:17:08,604 "Hmm, son of a prominent Scarsdale physician, huh?" 301 00:17:10,404 --> 00:17:12,736 I think it was Eddy who said 302 00:17:12,782 --> 00:17:14,398 right at the beginning, 303 00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:19,866 "I don't know if this will turn out to be great or terrible.” 304 00:17:19,914 --> 00:17:24,533 So, there was always a question mark, a big question mark, 305 00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:28,078 about where the story eventually was going. 306 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,168 We didn't realize from then on 307 00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:34,335 just how much things were going to change. 308 00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:36,594 Now one of the most remarkable stories I've seen in some time: 309 00:17:36,639 --> 00:17:37,674 a story about triplets. 310 00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:44,553 Eddy and Robert and David reunited after 19 years.' 311 00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:46,846 We have a story about triplets that gives new meaning 312 00:17:46,899 --> 00:17:48,389 to the phrase "long lost brothers". 313 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:53,687 We went on everything. Everything. 314 00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:55,321 You're not seeing double 315 00:17:55,366 --> 00:17:57,107 you are perhaps in a moment going to be seeing triple! 316 00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:58,445 I don't know who's who here. 317 00:17:58,494 --> 00:18:02,783 "Come on out here, gentlemen, come on out.' 318 00:18:02,832 --> 00:18:04,448 You just had to stop what you're doing 319 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:08,835 and watch them on every different show. 320 00:18:08,879 --> 00:18:11,416 It became a circus, it became a media circus. 321 00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:14,332 Talk about viral, I mean this was... it was viral even then. 322 00:18:14,385 --> 00:18:16,672 You guys have been on the front page of every newspaper 323 00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,928 in the world. - True. 324 00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:22,765 "People Magazine", "Time Magazine", 325 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:26,053 even the "New York Times", "Good Housekeeping". 326 00:18:28,232 --> 00:18:29,518 David, let's begin with you. 327 00:18:29,567 --> 00:18:30,682 Which one's David, I keep forgetting? 328 00:18:30,735 --> 00:18:32,100 - You're Edward? - Right. 329 00:18:32,153 --> 00:18:33,393 OK, who are you, are you David? 330 00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:34,732 - I'm Bobby. - Oh, you're... I'm sorry. 331 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,397 You're Robert, all right. Robert and Edward. 332 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,657 Come on. 333 00:18:42,872 --> 00:18:46,661 It was a fairy tale story. 334 00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,168 And people need to hear wonderful things. 335 00:18:50,212 --> 00:18:52,203 These three young men, 336 00:18:52,256 --> 00:18:55,419 they're all seated in the same position. 337 00:18:57,887 --> 00:19:00,720 It was kind of amazing. They really were strangers. 338 00:19:00,765 --> 00:19:01,971 They looked identical to each other 339 00:19:02,016 --> 00:19:03,802 but they were strangers, right? 340 00:19:03,851 --> 00:19:05,216 You know, they really didn't know one another. 341 00:19:05,269 --> 00:19:08,307 But their behaviors were so similar. 342 00:19:08,356 --> 00:19:10,973 Our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree. 343 00:19:11,025 --> 00:19:12,936 It's, it's ridiculous. 344 00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:14,475 We're all the same, 345 00:19:14,528 --> 00:19:15,814 as soon as we started discussing our personalities. 346 00:19:15,863 --> 00:19:17,445 Personalities are the same, our gestures are the same. 347 00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:18,776 We always talk at the same time. 348 00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:20,656 I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it. 349 00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:22,032 We all like Chinese food. 350 00:19:22,078 --> 00:19:22,863 You were all wrestlers at one time? 351 00:19:22,912 --> 00:19:24,243 Yes. 352 00:19:24,288 --> 00:19:25,528 You all smoke the same brand of cigarettes? 353 00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:26,946 Yes. 354 00:19:26,999 --> 00:19:28,615 What kind of cigarettes do you smoke? 355 00:19:28,668 --> 00:19:29,658 Marlboro. 356 00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:31,041 Do you all smoke the same brand? 357 00:19:31,087 --> 00:19:32,498 Yes. 358 00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:35,208 - Do you like the same colors? - Yes. 359 00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:37,123 Yeah, I was curious, how's their taste in women, 360 00:19:37,176 --> 00:19:39,713 is it similar? - Yes. Definitely. 361 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:43,671 It seems they all liked older women. 362 00:19:43,724 --> 00:19:45,840 Somebody said you all liked older women. 363 00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:47,349 Well.. 364 00:19:51,232 --> 00:19:53,143 Another astonishing coincidence 365 00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:56,355 is that each of the brothers grew up with an adoptive sister, 366 00:19:56,404 --> 00:19:59,237 all the girls now 21 years old. 367 00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:03,817 I can't get over it, I tell you.' 368 00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:05,610 An extraordinary string of coincidences 369 00:20:05,663 --> 00:20:06,698 you all have to agree, right? 370 00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:07,987 'It's beautiful. 371 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,326 You say you love each other, 372 00:20:09,375 --> 00:20:11,082 but you're only known each other for such a short time. 373 00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:12,583 Doesn't matter, I've known them my whole life. 374 00:20:12,628 --> 00:20:14,460 How long did it take for you to have that feeling? 375 00:20:14,505 --> 00:20:15,836 Like that. 376 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:20,462 They were more like clones 377 00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:24,095 than they were like brothers. 378 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:27,929 It was just absolutely astounding because they grew up 379 00:20:27,977 --> 00:20:30,344 it would appear to be pretty different households. 380 00:20:35,776 --> 00:20:39,485 We'd been adopted by a blue-collar family, 381 00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:43,023 a middle-class family and a more affluent family. 382 00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:51,285 Bobby's parents, Bobby's father was a medical doctor. 383 00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:55,410 And his mother was an attorney. 384 00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:57,329 So they were very well educated and they were living 385 00:20:57,381 --> 00:21:02,547 in one of the most prestigious areas of the country. 386 00:21:05,306 --> 00:21:10,176 Eddy's father was a teacher, he had a college education. 387 00:21:10,227 --> 00:21:13,390 And they lived in what would be considered 388 00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,518 a middle-class neighborhood. 389 00:21:18,819 --> 00:21:25,236 My family on paper were the least educated, 390 00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:30,199 they were immigrants, English was a second language to them, 391 00:21:30,247 --> 00:21:32,454 they had a little store, 392 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:37,415 they were the more blue-collar family. 393 00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:39,545 Hmm, but my father was just 394 00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:44,335 this incredibly generous warm guy. 395 00:21:44,386 --> 00:21:48,220 David's father, Richard was, uh... was larger than life. 396 00:21:51,852 --> 00:21:53,968 If you could imagine this guy was a big guy, 397 00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:57,685 with a big cigar always hanging out of his mouth. 398 00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:02,315 We referred to him as 'Bubala'. 399 00:22:02,363 --> 00:22:04,229 He was Bubala. 400 00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:07,023 If you know Yiddish, "Bubala' it's like love, 401 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,239 it's hugging and it's kissing. 402 00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:12,403 We spent more time at David's house 403 00:22:12,456 --> 00:22:14,743 than any place else. 404 00:22:14,792 --> 00:22:19,537 Bubala celebrated us like no other person. 405 00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:21,420 He said, "I have two more sons." 406 00:22:28,097 --> 00:22:29,633 When the boys found each other 407 00:22:29,682 --> 00:22:32,470 it just sort of happened 408 00:22:32,518 --> 00:22:33,974 then and there. 409 00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:35,805 Here is this wonderful story 410 00:22:35,855 --> 00:22:37,596 and that's it. 411 00:22:37,648 --> 00:22:40,481 Nobody questioned what was going on 412 00:22:40,526 --> 00:22:42,233 except the parents of course. 413 00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:48,815 When the families met up the first time 414 00:22:48,868 --> 00:22:51,826 there was great anger in all of them 415 00:22:51,871 --> 00:22:55,330 about the fact that the parents had never been told 416 00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:57,365 that there were two other children. 417 00:22:59,753 --> 00:23:03,587 They didn't tell us a word when we were adopting. 418 00:23:03,632 --> 00:23:05,794 We knew nothing about the other two 419 00:23:05,843 --> 00:23:10,303 until, er... the boys met at, at school, 420 00:23:10,347 --> 00:23:12,554 that was 20 years later. 421 00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:18,178 The first thing that hit me was what they lost. 422 00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:21,689 I believe they were six months old when they were separated. 423 00:23:21,734 --> 00:23:25,398 If you imagine those three little bodies lying together 424 00:23:25,446 --> 00:23:31,692 and suddenly the coldness of being alone in a crib. 425 00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:36,237 It's a terrible deprivation. 426 00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:42,372 I remember being told by my mother 427 00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:46,380 when I was a baby that I would slam my head against the wall, 428 00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:48,382 I would basically knock myself out. 429 00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:50,964 My mother said that I would bang my head 430 00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:52,424 on the inside of the crib... 431 00:23:55,351 --> 00:24:00,221 ...and I would hold my breath until I passed out. 432 00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:05,358 I believe it was absolutely separation anxiety 433 00:24:09,323 --> 00:24:12,816 All of us had been adopted from Louise Wise Services. 434 00:24:12,868 --> 00:24:14,859 Louise Wise Services, 435 00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:19,327 the New York institution founded back in 1916 436 00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:21,207 overseen by a board of directors 437 00:24:21,251 --> 00:24:22,958 drawn from New York City's 438 00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:25,916 social, financial and political elite. 439 00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:30,459 They were the pre-eminent adoption agency 440 00:24:30,511 --> 00:24:34,755 on the East Coast for Jewish babies in particular. 441 00:24:34,807 --> 00:24:37,299 That was the place to go. 442 00:24:37,351 --> 00:24:39,683 What we have felt 443 00:24:39,728 --> 00:24:41,639 at Louise Wise Services 444 00:24:41,689 --> 00:24:43,145 where I have been active 445 00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:46,182 for a great long time, 446 00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:49,227 is that adoptive parents should be told 447 00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:53,819 as much about the background of a child as is reasonable. 448 00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:57,826 Our parents they, they, they wanted answers, they were angry. 449 00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:01,830 And they arranged a meeting and they... the six of them 450 00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:06,870 went in to Louise Wise Agency to try to get some answers 451 00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,914 in terms of piecing together what happened. 452 00:25:21,395 --> 00:25:27,732 There was a meeting with the top brass at the agency. 453 00:25:27,776 --> 00:25:29,517 And they were asked, 454 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:32,688 "Is it true that you separated these boys at birth?" 455 00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:41,450 And they said, "Yes, we did." 456 00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:46,667 Why? 457 00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,796 How could you not tell us? 458 00:25:50,841 --> 00:25:53,549 What did you do? 459 00:25:53,594 --> 00:25:55,926 Why and how could you? 460 00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,549 They said the reason was 461 00:26:00,601 --> 00:26:06,313 because it was hard to place three children in one home. 462 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:08,393 The parents had been told that 463 00:26:08,442 --> 00:26:11,525 it was in our best interests that we'd been split up. 464 00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:16,064 That not every parent would welcome triplets, 465 00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:20,986 and that triplets would be difficult to place. 466 00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:26,704 Which... I think at that moment my father blew his stack. 467 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,835 And just said, "We would've taken all three. 468 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,841 "There's no question.” And he was furious. 469 00:26:34,885 --> 00:26:37,377 Well, the meeting came to an end. 470 00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:41,381 They all left. 471 00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:44,516 They felt like they had gotten nothing. 472 00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:47,929 And my father realized that he had left his umbrella in there. 473 00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:55,812 And he went back to get the umbrella. 474 00:26:58,992 --> 00:27:01,950 And he walked into the room 475 00:27:01,995 --> 00:27:05,909 to see them breaking open a bottle of champagne... 476 00:27:08,585 --> 00:27:12,123 and toasting each other as if they had dodged a bullet. 477 00:27:15,342 --> 00:27:22,885 They looked like they'd just missed getting hurt 478 00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:25,516 or killed or what have you. 479 00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:30,226 It was a, um... that was memorable. 480 00:27:31,942 --> 00:27:34,980 All of our parents came away from that meeting angry. 481 00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:44,118 The parents went to some pretty prestigious New York law firms 482 00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:48,452 and initially they were met with a lot of enthusiasm, 483 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:52,209 and, ... invariably within a short period of time 484 00:27:52,254 --> 00:27:55,121 were told, ...there's a conflict 485 00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:57,757 and they could not take the case. 486 00:27:57,801 --> 00:28:01,419 They said, "We have a number of associates 487 00:28:01,471 --> 00:28:04,884 who are trying to adopt through Louise Wise, 488 00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:08,972 and we don't wanna ruin their chances." 489 00:28:09,021 --> 00:28:11,388 So, that lawsuit was out. 490 00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:21,113 We were too happy being together to be that angry. 491 00:28:21,158 --> 00:28:25,368 We didn't understand it and to a degree we almost didn't care. 492 00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:30,698 Our heads were in the clouds, 493 00:28:30,751 --> 00:28:32,583 we knew our parents were pissed off 494 00:28:32,628 --> 00:28:35,962 but it was almost like, "Well, that's our parents' thing to do" 495 00:28:36,006 --> 00:28:38,043 while we were out partying. 497 00:28:41,261 --> 00:28:45,050 This was New York in 1980. 498 00:28:45,098 --> 00:28:46,680 Drugs were different, people were different, 499 00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:48,762 sex was different, music was different. 500 00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:53,145 Phew! We just, we just took advantage of all those things. 501 00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:56,057 Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll. 503 00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:02,104 They were running amok in New York, I'll say. 504 00:29:04,201 --> 00:29:09,241 Studio 54 was cooking. Limelight. Copacabana. 505 00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:12,247 They were hitting them all. 506 00:29:12,292 --> 00:29:14,875 New York loved us. New York loved us. 507 00:29:17,881 --> 00:29:20,623 All the newspapers were following the boys around 508 00:29:20,676 --> 00:29:21,757 no matter where we went. 509 00:29:23,804 --> 00:29:26,421 I remember one morning walking in 510 00:29:26,473 --> 00:29:31,388 and my mother throwing the "New York Post" at me, 511 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,224 at the kitchen table saying, I gotta look at the paper 512 00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,810 to find out where you were last night? 513 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:42,445 The boys thought they were gonna be stars, 514 00:29:42,489 --> 00:29:47,404 and actually they did star in one movie. 515 00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:50,695 Walking down the street, all of a sudden we hear, 516 00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:53,785 "Guys, guys, you're the guys! 517 00:29:53,834 --> 00:29:55,370 "Could you please be in our movie? 518 00:29:55,419 --> 00:29:56,454 "Please be in my movie." 519 00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:06,461 We didn't know who she was, and she was, she was Madonna. 520 00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:09,380 The stood on the side and ogled her. 521 00:30:09,433 --> 00:30:11,424 Pretty soon we got an apartment together, 522 00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,764 the triplets apartment. 523 00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:16,303 The triplet's apartment. 524 00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:21,726 Hmm, it's like if you had the most bachelor apartment 525 00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:23,018 times three. 526 00:30:23,071 --> 00:30:24,857 The liquor store used to deliver the liquor. 527 00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:31,861 At one point Eddy had appendicitis. 528 00:30:31,913 --> 00:30:33,745 He had no insurance. 529 00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:37,374 And so he checked into the hospital as Bobby. 530 00:30:37,419 --> 00:30:39,956 And had his appendix taken out. As Bobby. 531 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:42,963 I hope to this day Bobby's appendix stays pretty healthy. 532 00:30:44,384 --> 00:30:46,716 Between working together, playing together, 533 00:30:46,762 --> 00:30:49,094 going out together, going on dates together, 534 00:30:49,139 --> 00:30:50,595 living together, 535 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,056 from the time we met till... well till later 536 00:30:56,104 --> 00:30:59,847 there was nothing, nothing that could keep us apart. 537 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,109 I feel like I was the first serious girlfriend. 538 00:31:04,738 --> 00:31:07,856 Initially I couldn't really tell them apart 539 00:31:07,908 --> 00:31:09,273 and I would bump into them 540 00:31:09,326 --> 00:31:11,112 and I wasn't quite sure 541 00:31:11,161 --> 00:31:14,449 which one I was going out with, so... 542 00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:19,584 Bob has this very raw, natural, type of intelligence 543 00:31:19,628 --> 00:31:21,869 that I think I was attracted too. 544 00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:27,838 I always thought David was the best, right, 545 00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,251 of the three of them. 546 00:31:29,304 --> 00:31:31,420 I, I've said it before, you know, 547 00:31:31,473 --> 00:31:33,965 "I got the pick of the litter.” 548 00:31:34,017 --> 00:31:38,432 Without a doubt, Eddy was the, er... handsomest 549 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,643 of all the three triplets, you know. 550 00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:43,432 Of course, I'm partial 551 00:31:43,485 --> 00:31:46,102 but, you know, I adored him. 552 00:31:48,407 --> 00:31:53,322 When I met him, he was the last holdout. 553 00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:58,661 The Casanova of the three and, er... I said, 554 00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:01,826 "Oh boy, this guy's a real bachelor, like player." 555 00:32:04,256 --> 00:32:07,465 But he was so warm in his smile 556 00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:11,173 and he had wonderful beautiful hands, soft hands 557 00:32:11,221 --> 00:32:13,883 and when I shook his hand I mean, I just, I... 558 00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:15,548 You know, I just fell in love with him. 559 00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:22,434 I'm from a big colorful Irish Catholic family 560 00:32:22,482 --> 00:32:24,723 and he was a Jewish guy. 561 00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:27,484 When he came to the house for the first time, 562 00:32:27,529 --> 00:32:31,693 he looked at my dad and he said, 563 00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:34,904 "I don't know if you know this, Mr Shanley, 564 00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:37,240 "I've been seeing Brenda every night pretty much 565 00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:38,905 "since the first day I met her.” 566 00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:40,664 And I thought, "Oh my God, 567 00:32:40,709 --> 00:32:43,167 "my dad knows that, you know, we're together every night." 568 00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:46,920 And my dad just sort of, you know, looked at me like, "OK" 569 00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:48,080 and that was Eddy. 570 00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:50,875 -'I do.' -'I do.' 571 00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:02,636 'We love you.' 572 00:33:11,781 --> 00:33:13,237 Everyone loved him. 573 00:33:14,826 --> 00:33:17,864 If there was a scale, Bobby would be reserved, 574 00:33:17,913 --> 00:33:19,369 David would be middle 575 00:33:19,414 --> 00:33:22,702 and Eddy was just the loveable, mushy, 576 00:33:22,751 --> 00:33:24,867 huggable, funny, 577 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,163 you know, he just exuded warmth and love. 578 00:33:35,639 --> 00:33:40,349 Jamie's first Thanksgiving with Daddy. 579 00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:43,351 - Hi, look who's here. - Yes, Daddy. 580 00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:44,932 Daddy decided to show up 581 00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:48,190 and make a special guest appearance. 582 00:33:48,235 --> 00:33:53,776 Happy birthday, dear Jamie 583 00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:58,950 He loved family gatherings. 584 00:34:03,124 --> 00:34:05,491 You know, Eddy really, really loved 585 00:34:05,544 --> 00:34:08,878 being around David and Bobby. 586 00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:13,462 Eddy seemed to get the most out of the three of them meeting. 587 00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:15,092 For whatever reason. 588 00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:22,767 He wanted his brothers and him to have a beautiful life 589 00:34:22,811 --> 00:34:26,975 and everyone to get along 590 00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:31,358 and he wanted everyone to be one big family. 591 00:34:35,073 --> 00:34:37,815 Eddy was absolutely the driving force 592 00:34:37,867 --> 00:34:41,861 in terms of leading the search for our birth mother. 593 00:34:41,913 --> 00:34:44,245 He got a fever and he just wanted to do it. 594 00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:46,999 And Alan was also rallying, 595 00:34:47,043 --> 00:34:49,330 because it was just an exciting thing to do. 596 00:34:49,379 --> 00:34:51,461 We figured what are the chances 597 00:34:51,506 --> 00:34:57,969 of having triplets born in New York 598 00:34:58,722 --> 00:35:02,215 on July 12th 1961. 599 00:35:02,267 --> 00:35:06,352 We figured out that New York public library 600 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:09,013 shared birth records. 601 00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:12,273 We each grabbed a book 602 00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:15,482 and went page by page by page by page by page, 603 00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:18,272 and within a couple of hours, it was, "Bingo!" 604 00:35:18,325 --> 00:35:22,865 Male, male, male. Three in a row. 605 00:35:22,912 --> 00:35:24,869 All born July 12th 1961. 606 00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:30,827 Right next to it, birth mother's last name. 607 00:35:33,548 --> 00:35:38,418 The first meeting was a bar on like, 47th Street. 608 00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:41,804 It was like, her local neighborhood watering hole 609 00:35:41,848 --> 00:35:45,716 on the East side, and it was awkward. 610 00:35:45,769 --> 00:35:48,727 She told the story of what happened. 611 00:35:48,772 --> 00:35:51,480 Unfortunately it wasn't a romantic story. 612 00:35:51,524 --> 00:35:53,561 She was a young girl. 613 00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:57,820 Basically, prom night knock-up type thing. 614 00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:08,121 I don't think she ever got over the fact 615 00:36:08,166 --> 00:36:12,000 that she had triplets and had to give them up. 616 00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:16,417 You know, to us, at 19, 617 00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:18,127 you drink like a fish, you think you're invincible. 618 00:36:22,055 --> 00:36:24,968 But we found it a little concerning 619 00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:29,385 that she was pretty much keeping up with us, you know. 620 00:36:29,437 --> 00:36:32,725 The apple doesn't fall that far from the tree 621 00:36:32,774 --> 00:36:36,768 and if that's the tree, I was less than thrilled, 622 00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:42,566 and we had our parents already, so we met her and it was OK. 623 00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:49,576 But she was not a particularly close part of our lives. 624 00:36:52,043 --> 00:36:56,879 We were all young and starting our marriages and careers. 625 00:36:56,923 --> 00:36:58,584 Hi, welcome to Triplets. 626 00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:01,421 David Kellman, Eddy Galland and Robert Shafran 627 00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:03,335 are identical triplets. 628 00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:05,095 Now they run a New York restaurant called, 629 00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:07,256 what else, you guessed, Triplets.' 630 00:37:13,106 --> 00:37:16,394 "Welcome. Hello. Welcome, welcome.! 631 00:37:16,443 --> 00:37:18,605 We had a lot of people who were coming for us. 632 00:37:18,653 --> 00:37:21,020 They came to see the triplets. 633 00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:23,188 They wanted to be waited on by one of the triplets. 634 00:37:23,241 --> 00:37:25,357 We served vodka frozen blocks of ice, 635 00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:27,822 and we'd get the whole room up and dancing. 636 00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:33,657 It was like this big party going on, 637 00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:34,950 it was like this big Bar Mitzvah. 638 00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:42,462 Triplets become wildly successful 639 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:43,716 owning a restaurant 640 00:37:43,762 --> 00:37:45,378 in the Soho district of New York City. 641 00:37:48,725 --> 00:37:50,841 We did over a million dollars first year. 642 00:37:56,566 --> 00:38:00,810 That's when things kinda got funky. 643 00:38:17,587 --> 00:38:20,204 In the mid-90s I started working on a story 644 00:38:20,256 --> 00:38:22,293 for "The New Yorker" magazine 645 00:38:22,342 --> 00:38:25,300 about identical twins reared apart. 646 00:38:27,347 --> 00:38:28,803 I've always thought, 647 00:38:28,848 --> 00:38:30,054 What would it be like if you turned 648 00:38:30,099 --> 00:38:33,842 the corner one day and you saw yourself? 649 00:38:39,108 --> 00:38:40,724 In the process of my research, 650 00:38:40,777 --> 00:38:45,146 I came across this obscure scientific article. 651 00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,073 It referenced this secret study 652 00:38:56,125 --> 00:38:59,538 in which identical siblings had been separated. 653 00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:07,130 I was shocked and intrigued. 654 00:39:07,178 --> 00:39:11,467 They were separating identical babies at birth 655 00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:15,100 for the purpose of this scientific experiment. 656 00:39:16,104 --> 00:39:17,560 And these babies had all come 657 00:39:17,605 --> 00:39:21,189 from one adoption agency in New York City. 658 00:39:23,111 --> 00:39:24,897 The first thing out of my mouth 659 00:39:24,946 --> 00:39:26,436 was, "Were you adopted?" 660 00:39:26,489 --> 00:39:27,945 There I am, this can't be real. 661 00:39:27,991 --> 00:39:29,698 Twins separated at birth! 662 00:39:29,742 --> 00:39:33,576 Eddy and Robert and David reunited after 19 years. 663 00:39:33,621 --> 00:39:35,988 It's beautiful. 664 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,247 Blue-collar family, middle-class family 665 00:39:38,293 --> 00:39:39,829 and a more affluent family. 666 00:39:39,878 --> 00:39:44,088 Adoptive parents should be told as much as is reasonable. 667 00:39:44,132 --> 00:39:45,839 Something was just not right. 668 00:39:45,884 --> 00:39:48,751 They were breaking open a bottle of champagne 669 00:39:48,803 --> 00:39:51,215 as if they had dodged a bullet! 670 00:39:52,682 --> 00:39:56,346 All of us were adopted from Louise Wise. 671 00:39:56,394 --> 00:39:58,226 Louise Wise. 672 00:39:58,271 --> 00:40:02,060 And these babies had all come from Louise Wise Services. 673 00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:14,902 Lawrence Wright called me 674 00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:19,289 and he told me all about the experiment. 675 00:40:19,334 --> 00:40:21,621 And I said, "This is like Nazi shit.” 676 00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:34,012 It was kind of like reality hitting like a tidal wave. 677 00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:39,760 We were a science experiment. 678 00:40:39,812 --> 00:40:47,060 These people split us up and studied us like lab rats. 679 00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:50,854 We didn't recognize this stuff until it was put in our face, 680 00:40:50,907 --> 00:40:52,318 until it was in newsprint. 681 00:40:56,537 --> 00:41:00,121 But there were clues in the past. 682 00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:04,834 I remember from a very young age... 683 00:41:07,173 --> 00:41:10,165 ...people would come to the house... 684 00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:14,420 ...usually a young man and a young woman. 685 00:41:21,145 --> 00:41:23,432 And they had me taking tests. 686 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:27,440 They did IQ tests, personality inventory tests, 687 00:41:27,485 --> 00:41:30,398 they did eye hand co-ordination tests. 688 00:41:30,446 --> 00:41:36,067 I do remember people coming to the house, having tests done, 689 00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:43,367 square pegs and round holes, and Rorschach inkblot tests. 690 00:41:43,418 --> 00:41:46,080 "What does this mean to you?" that kind of stuff. 691 00:41:49,674 --> 00:41:51,915 Eddy told me that when he was younger, 692 00:41:51,968 --> 00:41:57,259 he remembers people watching him and taking notes, 693 00:41:57,306 --> 00:41:59,092 and they would ask him questions 694 00:41:59,142 --> 00:42:01,429 and he would get frustrated with the questions, 695 00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:06,354 and he remembers they were videotaping him. 696 00:42:06,399 --> 00:42:08,766 I remember the filming more than anything else. 697 00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:16,440 I remember having super 8mm films taken of me 698 00:42:16,492 --> 00:42:19,325 when I was on the swing set, or on the slide. 699 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:21,953 Every single time they came they filmed. 700 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,991 Riding my bike, throwing a ball, 701 00:42:26,044 --> 00:42:27,830 and they wanted to see how many times I could, 702 00:42:27,879 --> 00:42:30,337 you know, go on my pogo stick, roller-skating, 703 00:42:30,381 --> 00:42:32,622 throwing a Frisbee, shooting a bow and arrow, 704 00:42:32,675 --> 00:42:34,086 you know, they had my attention. 705 00:42:34,135 --> 00:42:35,341 I was performing. 706 00:42:36,929 --> 00:42:41,594 The stuff they did would be more complex as I got older. 707 00:42:41,642 --> 00:42:44,760 I felt weird about it, I didn't really understand 708 00:42:44,812 --> 00:42:46,769 why they needed to come so often, 709 00:42:46,814 --> 00:42:49,306 why were they asking me all these questions. 710 00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:51,224 Somewhere around age of nine or ten 711 00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:53,234 I started becoming less comfortable with it, 712 00:42:53,279 --> 00:42:55,862 and it was kinda like, "Mom, do I still have to do this? 713 00:42:57,450 --> 00:43:00,283 "Do I still have to do this?" 714 00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:03,740 When our parents adopted us 715 00:43:03,790 --> 00:43:06,908 they were each told that we were being followed 716 00:43:06,959 --> 00:43:08,415 as part of a normal study 717 00:43:08,461 --> 00:43:11,499 of the development of adopted children. 718 00:43:11,547 --> 00:43:18,010 They had no idea that we'd been separated. 719 00:43:18,054 --> 00:43:22,639 The agency said the children born in this period of time 720 00:43:22,683 --> 00:43:26,972 were all gonna be in a normal study of adopted children. 721 00:43:27,021 --> 00:43:34,644 And, as far as we knew, that was it. 722 00:43:34,695 --> 00:43:37,232 That this was a new thing they were going to follow up 723 00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:42,651 with all the children and at the time we accepted it. 724 00:43:44,247 --> 00:43:46,238 You're talking about a group of people 725 00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:50,375 that went and held a baby 726 00:43:50,419 --> 00:43:54,959 and did psychological testing on a six-month-old baby, 727 00:43:55,007 --> 00:43:59,547 and then went to another house to see his brother, 728 00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:02,963 and then went to another house to see his brother, 729 00:44:03,015 --> 00:44:08,351 and did this over years and years and years and years 730 00:44:08,396 --> 00:44:10,182 with full knowledge 731 00:44:10,231 --> 00:44:12,222 that we were within a hundred-mile radius, 732 00:44:13,442 --> 00:44:16,730 and not knowing each other. 733 00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:20,443 It's just unconscionable. 734 00:44:20,491 --> 00:44:25,452 Who would think that anybody would be evil enough 735 00:44:25,496 --> 00:44:29,285 to come up with something like this? 736 00:44:36,591 --> 00:44:38,628 In the process of my research, 737 00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:42,544 I learned is that the person really in charge of the study 738 00:44:42,597 --> 00:44:46,682 was Dr Peter Neubauer, 739 00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:51,019 very distinguished psychiatrist in New York, 740 00:44:51,063 --> 00:44:53,771 director of the Freud archives. 741 00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:57,775 He was an Austrian refugee from the Holocaust 742 00:44:57,820 --> 00:45:00,733 and he set up shop in New York and became, you know, 743 00:45:00,781 --> 00:45:05,992 one of the great men of psychiatry in America. 744 00:45:06,037 --> 00:45:09,280 What I learned is that people at the Louise Wise agency 745 00:45:09,332 --> 00:45:12,620 were separating identical siblings 746 00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:15,877 and then a team of scientists led by Neubauer 747 00:45:15,922 --> 00:45:18,380 would follow them. 748 00:45:18,424 --> 00:45:22,008 But it wasn't just the triplets. 749 00:45:23,012 --> 00:45:24,673 There were others. 750 00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:28,681 After my article came out 751 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:31,935 another twin set discovered themselves. 752 00:45:31,979 --> 00:45:33,515 And here they are now. 753 00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:34,679 I appreciate you coming on the show today. 754 00:45:34,732 --> 00:45:36,848 - Our pleasure. - Paula and Elyse! 755 00:45:40,446 --> 00:45:44,986 The story is incredible. Is that the way to tell it? 756 00:45:45,034 --> 00:45:47,651 It's funny. I mean, we say if it hadn't happened to us 757 00:45:47,703 --> 00:45:50,991 we wouldn't believe it. - This is a Disney movie! 758 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,781 It's a little darker than a Disney movie. 759 00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:54,824 I was at home in my apartment in Brooklyn 760 00:45:54,877 --> 00:45:56,493 with my two-year-old daughter, 761 00:45:56,545 --> 00:45:59,708 and the phone rings and I answer the phone 762 00:45:59,757 --> 00:46:01,247 and it was the adoption agency. 763 00:46:01,300 --> 00:46:03,257 "We've got some news for you, you've got a twin sister." 764 00:46:03,302 --> 00:46:04,667 "And she's looking for you." 765 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,303 You were both editors of your high school paper, 766 00:46:07,348 --> 00:46:08,930 you both went to film school. 767 00:46:08,975 --> 00:46:10,557 Well, it's funny because I don't know if you noticed... 768 00:46:10,601 --> 00:46:13,810 Our mannerisms are inherited. 769 00:46:13,854 --> 00:46:15,765 I contacted the adoption agency 770 00:46:15,815 --> 00:46:18,022 and I asked them, "Well, why we were separated?" 771 00:46:18,067 --> 00:46:19,523 That's the million-dollar question of this story.' 772 00:46:19,568 --> 00:46:20,933 And they said, "For a twin study." 773 00:46:20,987 --> 00:46:22,944 We felt that our lives had been orchestrated 774 00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:25,276 by these scientific researchers 775 00:46:25,324 --> 00:46:27,782 who put their scientific needs, 776 00:46:27,827 --> 00:46:30,990 research needs or desires, their career interests 777 00:46:31,038 --> 00:46:33,245 before the needs of us, and the interests of us 778 00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:36,249 and other twins and triplets who were separated. 779 00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:41,045 Nobody is sure of how many identical twins 780 00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:42,831 were involved in this study. 781 00:46:42,883 --> 00:46:47,423 I was told six to eight, but we don't really know. 782 00:46:51,517 --> 00:46:52,928 When you have a study like this, 783 00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,139 normally you produce the results 784 00:46:55,187 --> 00:46:58,145 and you show how large the sample is 785 00:46:58,190 --> 00:47:00,101 and all this sort of thing. 786 00:47:00,151 --> 00:47:03,689 But this study was never published. 787 00:47:03,738 --> 00:47:07,151 Which makes it all the more intriguing. 788 00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:10,696 We did have an attorney 789 00:47:10,745 --> 00:47:14,079 try to get us some of the study records. 790 00:47:14,123 --> 00:47:17,457 We received a small amount of information. 791 00:47:17,501 --> 00:47:20,789 It was very dry, technical data, 792 00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:22,420 that didn't really shed any light 793 00:47:22,465 --> 00:47:25,048 on the reasons for the study. It was garbage. 794 00:47:26,635 --> 00:47:28,467 I don't know what the results were, 795 00:47:28,512 --> 00:47:31,675 or if there ever were results because I never saw them. 796 00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:35,717 They're trying to conceal what they did 797 00:47:35,770 --> 00:47:38,182 from the people they did it to. 798 00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:39,971 Why? 799 00:47:40,024 --> 00:47:42,607 I mean, what was the purpose of it? 800 00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:45,609 The study was never published. Why? 801 00:48:07,843 --> 00:48:09,880 My name is Natasha Josefowitz 802 00:48:11,597 --> 00:48:15,682 and I was Peter Neubauer's research assistant. 803 00:48:22,441 --> 00:48:26,480 So, come on in. Would you like a cup of coffee? 804 00:48:28,364 --> 00:48:31,322 Here are some of my buddies. 805 00:48:31,367 --> 00:48:34,826 Michelle Obama and I. She is very tall. 806 00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:36,656 I'm like a little shrimp next to her, 807 00:48:36,705 --> 00:48:38,696 I come up to her right here. 808 00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:40,456 This is Obama three years ago, 809 00:48:40,501 --> 00:48:42,833 and here he is holding my latest book. 810 00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,210 I have to tell you. I said, "Barack, I love you." 811 00:48:45,256 --> 00:48:48,544 He said, "I love you too", and he gave me a kiss on this cheek. 812 00:48:48,592 --> 00:48:53,086 Yeah. This is Robert Redford and Al Gore, 813 00:48:53,139 --> 00:48:56,848 and this is Errol Flynn and me when I was 18. 814 00:48:56,892 --> 00:48:58,474 I thought he was a hoot. 815 00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:01,261 Picasso's. 816 00:49:03,149 --> 00:49:06,358 When are we gonna talk about the twin study? 817 00:49:10,197 --> 00:49:13,986 You need to know I am not part of the team, 818 00:49:14,034 --> 00:49:17,527 I am a peripheral person. I just do the hearsay. 819 00:49:20,791 --> 00:49:23,078 The first time I heard about the twin study, 820 00:49:23,127 --> 00:49:27,371 it was still just a dream in Peter's head. 821 00:49:29,592 --> 00:49:31,048 What was he like? 822 00:49:31,093 --> 00:49:35,758 Hmm... sexy, nice looking, interesting. 823 00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:40,342 His background was very Freudian. 824 00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:42,351 Anna Freud, Freud's daughter, 825 00:49:42,396 --> 00:49:45,013 would often come and visit with him. 826 00:49:46,525 --> 00:49:50,314 He was very focused on wanting to make a difference 827 00:49:50,362 --> 00:49:52,399 in children's lives. 828 00:49:54,909 --> 00:49:57,367 Peter started thinking, wouldn't it be interesting 829 00:49:57,411 --> 00:49:59,698 to have a study of mothers 830 00:49:59,747 --> 00:50:01,704 who wanted to give up their children, 831 00:50:01,749 --> 00:50:03,786 who happen to be identical twins 832 00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:09,454 and then could be separated at birth? 833 00:50:09,507 --> 00:50:13,717 If we could put them in two totally different environments, 834 00:50:13,761 --> 00:50:16,674 we would put to rest the dilemma, 835 00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:19,680 'nature or nurture', forever. 836 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,927 Now you may think, "Oh, this is terrible, you know, 837 00:50:23,979 --> 00:50:25,686 "how could you do this?" 838 00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:29,975 You have to put yourself back in the late 50s and 60s. 839 00:50:31,737 --> 00:50:36,402 This was not something that seemed to be bad. 840 00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:39,909 Nobody said, "To take children apart, how terrible.” 841 00:50:39,954 --> 00:50:44,073 That was not at all in anyone's thoughts. 842 00:50:44,124 --> 00:50:48,493 This was a very exciting time. 843 00:50:48,546 --> 00:50:51,004 Psychology was just beginning to be the big deal 844 00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:53,255 that everybody was talking about. 845 00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,543 This was all in terms of research. An opportunity. 846 00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:03,553 One of the great questions that science has ever asked 847 00:51:03,602 --> 00:51:06,060 is "How do we become the people we are, 848 00:51:06,105 --> 00:51:09,097 "how much of nature versus how much of nurture 849 00:51:09,149 --> 00:51:11,732 "shapes us into the people that we become?” 850 00:51:14,488 --> 00:51:17,276 I did not go and do the research. 851 00:51:17,324 --> 00:51:19,907 But I would hear about it because I was in the office. 852 00:51:21,996 --> 00:51:25,489 What they found out, was incredible. 853 00:51:27,543 --> 00:51:30,160 Our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree. 854 00:51:30,212 --> 00:51:32,453 It's, it's ridiculous. 855 00:51:32,506 --> 00:51:33,996 We're all the same, 856 00:51:34,049 --> 00:51:35,289 as soon as we started discussing our personalities. 857 00:51:35,342 --> 00:51:37,299 Personalities are the same, our gestures are the same. 858 00:51:37,344 --> 00:51:38,425 We always talk at the same time. 859 00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:40,427 You were raised in different homes? 860 00:51:40,472 --> 00:51:42,133 True. 861 00:51:42,182 --> 00:51:47,302 I did not believe that it'd be as much hereditary as it was, 862 00:51:47,354 --> 00:51:49,311 that was more than any of us thought. 863 00:51:49,356 --> 00:51:51,063 I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it. 864 00:51:51,108 --> 00:51:52,269 We all like Chinese food. 865 00:51:52,318 --> 00:51:53,558 You were all wrestlers at one time?' 866 00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:55,022 Yes. 867 00:51:55,070 --> 00:51:56,060 - You all smoke cigarettes? - Yes.' 868 00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:57,569 Do you all smoke the same brand? 869 00:51:57,615 --> 00:51:59,026 Yes. 870 00:51:59,074 --> 00:52:01,486 - Do you like the same colors? - Yes. 871 00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:03,276 How's their taste in women, is it similar? 872 00:52:03,329 --> 00:52:05,445 Yes. Definitely. 873 00:52:07,082 --> 00:52:09,073 We are moved to behaviors 874 00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:10,958 that we are totally unconscious about. 875 00:52:15,633 --> 00:52:17,965 You were both editors of your high school paper, 876 00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:19,842 you both went to film school. 877 00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,218 I don't know if you noticed.. 878 00:52:21,263 --> 00:52:23,379 Our mannerisms are inherited. 879 00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:28,392 It's disturbing, we don't like that. 880 00:52:28,437 --> 00:52:30,474 People don't like to hear, they say, "I have free will." 881 00:52:33,651 --> 00:52:38,361 We would prefer that we have some influence over our lives. 882 00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:40,237 Wouldn't you rather know that? 883 00:52:40,282 --> 00:52:42,489 That you have some control over this 884 00:52:42,534 --> 00:52:45,572 and so finding out, never mind, doesn't matter what you do. 885 00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:52,291 So, I think it's upsetting to people 886 00:52:52,336 --> 00:52:54,543 to see how little influence they have, 887 00:52:54,588 --> 00:52:55,669 how little control they have. 888 00:52:55,714 --> 00:52:58,797 We don't like that, we fight that. 889 00:53:06,308 --> 00:53:11,018 If the conclusions of the study were so shocking 890 00:53:11,063 --> 00:53:13,725 and so earth-shaking, 891 00:53:13,774 --> 00:53:16,061 why haven't you published your study? 892 00:53:19,113 --> 00:53:22,731 There is a lot that we don't know. 893 00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:26,572 We have anecdotes that are very provocative, 894 00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:28,952 but we don't know, we don't have the data. 895 00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:35,118 I don't know what happened to the study. 896 00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:39,004 I moved to Switzerland in 1965 897 00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:42,792 and lost touch with what was going on. 898 00:53:44,847 --> 00:53:48,090 All that research should be seen. 899 00:53:48,142 --> 00:53:50,975 This study was the first, and it's also the last, 900 00:53:51,019 --> 00:53:54,307 it will never be done again, it will never be replicated. 901 00:53:54,356 --> 00:53:56,518 It's monumental, it's a monumental study. 902 00:54:00,112 --> 00:54:02,353 In terms of the motivation that they used 903 00:54:02,406 --> 00:54:04,113 to justify what they did, 904 00:54:04,158 --> 00:54:06,525 I don't even care because, I... 905 00:54:06,577 --> 00:54:08,193 It's not justifiable what they did. 906 00:54:11,832 --> 00:54:15,041 You know what? 907 00:54:15,085 --> 00:54:17,793 Coming from the Holocaust, 908 00:54:17,838 --> 00:54:23,459 our family has a knowledge 909 00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:27,253 that when you play with humans... 910 00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:33,893 ...you do something very wrong. 911 00:54:35,606 --> 00:54:41,022 And I really believe that because of this research, 912 00:54:41,069 --> 00:54:45,563 these three boys did not have happy endings. 913 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,656 What were some of the similarities 914 00:54:54,708 --> 00:54:56,745 you found that you had as you were all growing up 915 00:54:56,794 --> 00:55:00,503 in your own respective households? 916 00:55:00,547 --> 00:55:02,663 We all smoked the same cigarettes when we met, 917 00:55:02,716 --> 00:55:04,878 we all wrestled in high school and junior high, 918 00:55:04,927 --> 00:55:07,043 we all loved the same food, er... 919 00:55:07,095 --> 00:55:08,381 our taste in women was similar. 920 00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:10,091 What are some of the stranger things 921 00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:12,222 you found out you had in common? 922 00:55:13,894 --> 00:55:16,261 Any other more surprising discoveries? 923 00:55:16,313 --> 00:55:17,519 Well, sometimes when you think 924 00:55:17,564 --> 00:55:19,100 you're having a unique thought or idea 925 00:55:19,149 --> 00:55:21,265 and you go to share it with someone 926 00:55:21,318 --> 00:55:23,150 and they say, "Your brother just told me." 927 00:55:23,195 --> 00:55:24,356 - It's a little annoying. - It's funny. 928 00:55:24,404 --> 00:55:25,769 It's a little annoying, it's unnerving.' 929 00:55:27,157 --> 00:55:29,444 Being in business with my brothers 930 00:55:29,493 --> 00:55:31,951 damaged our relationship. 931 00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:36,580 There were conflicting work ethics, 932 00:55:36,625 --> 00:55:40,710 and my father had passed away. 933 00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:47,375 He really anchored us together as a group 934 00:55:47,427 --> 00:55:50,215 and kept the peace so to speak. 935 00:55:50,264 --> 00:55:53,131 They started to argue like kids would argue, you know. 936 00:55:53,183 --> 00:55:56,517 And they didn't have that opportunity, 937 00:55:56,562 --> 00:55:59,520 that gift of being able to be brothers for 18 years. 938 00:55:59,565 --> 00:56:04,685 When you are living in a family of children 939 00:56:04,736 --> 00:56:08,274 you learn how to adjust to each other. 940 00:56:08,323 --> 00:56:12,942 If I don't like the way you do this, I can get angry, 941 00:56:12,995 --> 00:56:16,033 or I can learn to compromise. 942 00:56:16,081 --> 00:56:20,996 But they met as adults. 943 00:56:21,044 --> 00:56:25,003 And had never learned how to live with each other. 944 00:56:25,048 --> 00:56:28,086 As things went on, things got more complicated, 945 00:56:28,135 --> 00:56:31,218 and as things got more complicated, 946 00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:34,221 what ended up happening was I left. 947 00:56:37,102 --> 00:56:39,685 When Bobby left the business 948 00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:43,894 Eddy and I felt that we were being betrayed. 949 00:56:43,942 --> 00:56:47,731 Bobby felt that he was being pushed out. 950 00:56:47,779 --> 00:56:54,321 Either way, it did major, major damage to the relationship. 951 00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,573 I think that took an extreme toll on Eddy 952 00:57:00,626 --> 00:57:04,085 more so than I think David and Bobby. 953 00:57:04,129 --> 00:57:05,665 Eddy was always the one 954 00:57:05,714 --> 00:57:09,628 who just wanted to have everybody be at peace together, 955 00:57:09,676 --> 00:57:11,667 and Eddy was, was very upset about it. 956 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,212 He was kind of crushed about it. It was eating at him. 957 00:57:16,808 --> 00:57:18,094 He dearly loved them, 958 00:57:18,143 --> 00:57:20,180 and he wanted his brothers to be together. 959 00:57:20,228 --> 00:57:24,313 He was just not really sure how to deal with it all. 960 00:57:24,358 --> 00:57:30,730 You're just seeing a lot more kind of up and down behaviors, 961 00:57:30,781 --> 00:57:32,237 erratic behaviors. 962 00:57:33,492 --> 00:57:35,108 Eddy's growing a beard. 963 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,946 "Fur face", that's me.' 964 00:57:36,995 --> 00:57:38,360 Jeez, wake the child. 965 00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:41,371 Jamie, your daddy is fuzzy. 966 00:57:41,416 --> 00:57:45,410 You're just seeing a lot more unnatural highs and lows. 967 00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:52,084 He would call people and... at bizarre hours of the evening, 968 00:57:52,135 --> 00:57:55,127 and then they would say, 969 00:57:55,180 --> 00:58:00,220 I haven't seen or heard from Eddy in ten years. 970 00:58:00,268 --> 00:58:02,555 Why is he picking up the telephone and calling me 971 00:58:02,604 --> 00:58:04,470 at two o'clock in the morning? 972 00:58:04,523 --> 00:58:07,390 You know, those are, those are signs. 973 00:58:07,442 --> 00:58:09,809 This was just... this was more 974 00:58:09,861 --> 00:58:12,353 than just somebody who needed counseling. 975 00:58:12,406 --> 00:58:15,740 This was, like, really something very, very serious. 976 00:58:18,161 --> 00:58:21,324 He could be unbelievably charming. 977 00:58:21,373 --> 00:58:22,989 Hello! 978 00:58:23,041 --> 00:58:26,124 But the downswing was a lot of anger. 979 00:58:26,169 --> 00:58:29,412 There was just deep, deep darkness. 980 00:58:31,008 --> 00:58:32,214 Manic depression 981 00:58:32,259 --> 00:58:36,093 I think was what they eventually said. 982 00:58:36,138 --> 00:58:39,256 It made sense in hindsight. 983 00:58:46,982 --> 00:58:48,518 I didn't walk down the aisle 984 00:58:48,567 --> 00:58:50,274 thinking, you know, 985 00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:55,404 have a man who is suffering from manic depression. 986 00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,279 People will say, "How could you not know?", but... 987 00:59:02,330 --> 00:59:05,448 ...he was so unique and so wonderful and special, 988 00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:07,457 you just... that was Eddy, you know. 989 00:59:13,508 --> 00:59:18,378 I was advised that he needed to be in a facility. 990 00:59:24,144 --> 00:59:27,762 I mean, I felt bad that I put him through this trauma 991 00:59:27,814 --> 00:59:29,475 of going into a psych ward 992 00:59:29,524 --> 00:59:31,765 because I had been in a psych ward and I know how hard it is. 993 00:59:31,818 --> 00:59:35,812 When I was a kid, I spent my 16th birthday in a psych ward. 994 00:59:37,324 --> 00:59:40,112 We all were really disturbed kids. 995 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,243 We were all under psychiatric care when we were teenagers. 996 00:59:47,209 --> 00:59:51,203 We all had very challenging 997 00:59:52,506 --> 00:59:54,713 and dysfunctional teenage years. 998 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,092 Could we ask about personal. 999 01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:04,427 One of you were involved in a murder, 1000 01:00:04,476 --> 01:00:05,637 is that right? 1001 01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:09,094 Ah, it's up to you guys. 1002 01:00:09,147 --> 01:00:10,103 No. No. 1003 01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:11,513 People Magazine... 1004 01:00:11,566 --> 01:00:14,934 One was accused of being involved in a murder. 1005 01:00:15,904 --> 01:00:17,565 And it was me, 1006 01:00:17,614 --> 01:00:20,697 who never met this person who was killed, 1007 01:00:20,742 --> 01:00:23,734 never was present or anything like that. 1008 01:00:23,787 --> 01:00:25,448 It was peer pressure. 1009 01:00:25,497 --> 01:00:28,034 Friends pressuring me into covering for them, 1010 01:00:28,083 --> 01:00:30,074 telling a story for them to the police 1011 01:00:30,127 --> 01:00:31,709 and that pulled me right into it. 1012 01:00:31,753 --> 01:00:33,539 I've never hurt anyone in my life. 1013 01:00:33,588 --> 01:00:36,046 We know it, we can feel it. 1014 01:00:36,091 --> 01:00:37,581 We can feel it. 1015 01:00:42,722 --> 01:00:48,718 A lot of people in this study had dysfunctional childhoods 1016 01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:51,102 and some mental problems 1017 01:00:51,148 --> 01:00:54,357 and it raises questions, you know. 1018 01:00:54,401 --> 01:00:57,519 If you are a person who has devoted your life, 1019 01:00:57,571 --> 01:01:00,939 like Dr Neubauer has to the study of mental illness, 1020 01:01:00,991 --> 01:01:04,985 then is that a factor that you are researching? 1021 01:01:07,622 --> 01:01:11,661 'The story is incredible. This is a Disney movie.' 1022 01:01:11,710 --> 01:01:13,701 'It's a little darker than a Disney movie.' 1023 01:01:16,673 --> 01:01:20,917 When we first met we realized we had all these similarities, 1024 01:01:20,969 --> 01:01:23,336 we had similar mannerisms, 1025 01:01:23,388 --> 01:01:25,550 we both had studied film. 1026 01:01:27,225 --> 01:01:29,512 And then we also found out 1027 01:01:29,561 --> 01:01:31,973 we both had suffered from depression. 1028 01:01:34,733 --> 01:01:36,098 So, this is the letter 1029 01:01:36,151 --> 01:01:39,610 that I received from Louise Wise Services. 1030 01:01:39,654 --> 01:01:44,239 "You were born at 12.51 pm on October 91968 1031 01:01:44,284 --> 01:01:47,322 "to a 29-year-old Jewish single woman. 1032 01:01:47,370 --> 01:01:49,987 "She was very intelligent with a high IQ. 1033 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,828 "She entered college on a merit scholarship 1034 01:01:52,876 --> 01:01:56,494 "but emotional problems interrupted her attendance. 1035 01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:59,379 "She had a history of voluntary hospitalizations 1036 01:01:59,424 --> 01:02:01,461 "for emotional problems. 1037 01:02:01,509 --> 01:02:03,295 "Although I have not been able to locate 1038 01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:07,430 "the original medical reports, secondary sources noted 1039 01:02:07,474 --> 01:02:09,932 "that your mother's diagnosis was schizophrenia." 1040 01:02:11,519 --> 01:02:14,102 It was really disturbing to read that my birth mother 1041 01:02:14,147 --> 01:02:17,640 had been in and out of institutions. 1042 01:02:18,985 --> 01:02:20,771 I started finding out more 1043 01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:25,030 about the other twins and triplets in the study, 1044 01:02:25,075 --> 01:02:27,612 and it turns out that not only had many of them 1045 01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:30,323 struggled with mental health problems, 1046 01:02:30,372 --> 01:02:34,240 but that their birth parents had mental health issues. 1047 01:02:34,292 --> 01:02:37,284 And their adoptive families had never been told. 1048 01:02:38,755 --> 01:02:40,211 How possible is it 1049 01:02:40,257 --> 01:02:43,750 that your mother had mental health issues? 1050 01:02:45,095 --> 01:02:51,888 I don't think they were severe. 1051 01:02:51,935 --> 01:02:55,519 I think that she was... 1052 01:02:55,563 --> 01:03:01,400 She may have had some minor, minor issues, er... 1053 01:03:05,782 --> 01:03:09,150 She may have had some, a little bit more than minor issues. 1054 01:03:13,290 --> 01:03:16,999 Were the scientists purposefully choosing children 1055 01:03:17,043 --> 01:03:20,252 whose biological parents had a mental illness, 1056 01:03:22,674 --> 01:03:25,462 and placing them into different homes 1057 01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:29,925 to see, is mental illness hereditable. 1058 01:03:36,730 --> 01:03:38,312 Eddy was in the hospital 1059 01:03:38,356 --> 01:03:40,438 for I think it was three weeks. 1060 01:03:40,483 --> 01:03:44,477 And then he came back to work at the restaurant. 1061 01:03:47,449 --> 01:03:51,943 I wasn't there. David was with him, all the time. 1062 01:03:53,621 --> 01:03:57,285 I think maybe he can give you better detail about it. 1063 01:04:00,628 --> 01:04:02,414 I was running the kitchen. 1064 01:04:02,464 --> 01:04:04,751 Eddy wasn't in. I was running the kitchen, 1065 01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:06,415 he was running the front of the house. 1066 01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:08,254 That's the way it worked. 1067 01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:11,921 And I didn't know where he was, and he lived across the street. 1068 01:04:14,976 --> 01:04:16,887 So, David called me from the restaurant 1069 01:04:16,936 --> 01:04:21,021 and he asked me to look out the window 1070 01:04:21,066 --> 01:04:24,730 to see if Eddy's car was in the driveway, 1071 01:04:24,778 --> 01:04:26,735 because if it were in the driveway, 1072 01:04:26,780 --> 01:04:28,396 we knew that he was home. 1073 01:04:28,448 --> 01:04:32,066 So, the car was in the driveway, 1074 01:04:32,118 --> 01:04:37,079 and I said to David, ... 1075 01:04:37,123 --> 01:04:40,536 Do you want me to go over there? 1076 01:04:40,585 --> 01:04:44,795 And David said, "Yes." 1077 01:04:47,801 --> 01:04:49,838 And she called me back a few minutes later 1078 01:04:49,886 --> 01:04:52,093 and her voice was trembling and shaking. 1079 01:04:52,138 --> 01:04:54,505 She said, "You've gotta come home." 1080 01:04:54,557 --> 01:04:56,514 And I said, "Why?" 1081 01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:59,267 And she said, "Please, you've just gotta come home." 1082 01:04:59,813 --> 01:05:01,303 Uh... 1083 01:05:04,651 --> 01:05:09,236 And I pulled up... we lived across the street. 1084 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,238 I pulled up, kind of, just... cop cars were all there 1085 01:05:12,283 --> 01:05:15,150 and I, just kind of, pulled up on... you know, 1086 01:05:15,203 --> 01:05:17,490 blocking half the street, left the door open 1087 01:05:17,539 --> 01:05:19,655 and started running into the house 1088 01:05:19,707 --> 01:05:23,541 and the cops grabbed me and they wouldn't let me come in. 1089 01:05:23,586 --> 01:05:25,497 They said, "You don't, you don't wanna see this. 1090 01:05:25,547 --> 01:05:28,130 "You can't see this, you don't wanna see this. 1091 01:05:28,174 --> 01:05:30,711 "You, you don't wanna see this." 1092 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,673 And that's when I knew he was gone. 1093 01:05:37,142 --> 01:05:40,680 I told Bobby, "I need to talk to you." 1094 01:05:43,231 --> 01:05:46,940 And it's as if he, he kind of knew. 1095 01:05:46,985 --> 01:05:52,401 He kind of knew, before the words came out of my mouth. 1096 01:05:55,368 --> 01:05:57,951 Eddy committed suicide. 1097 01:05:59,414 --> 01:06:01,997 Eddy shot himself. 1098 01:06:03,251 --> 01:06:05,492 He took his own life. 1099 01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:22,810 I don't remember who told us. I just remember darkness. 1100 01:06:27,775 --> 01:06:34,363 Buried him on Father's Day, I gave the eulogy, 1101 01:06:34,407 --> 01:06:38,401 and I don't remember everything I said, 1102 01:06:38,453 --> 01:06:42,913 but I do remember saying that my brother Eddy 1103 01:06:42,957 --> 01:06:45,949 could light up a room with his smile. 1104 01:06:58,723 --> 01:07:02,261 Why Eddy, why Eddy? Why not me? 1105 01:07:02,310 --> 01:07:04,517 I've asked myself that a hundred times. 1106 01:07:04,562 --> 01:07:07,975 I'd rather it was me than Eddy. 1107 01:07:08,024 --> 01:07:11,983 I don't know why Eddy and why not me. 1108 01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:14,440 Maybe just because... 1109 01:07:17,158 --> 01:07:20,025 I don't know, I just don't know. 1110 01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:23,241 I can't answer this. 1111 01:07:30,588 --> 01:07:32,044 Thank you, Bobby. 1112 01:07:32,090 --> 01:07:34,172 Oh, you're welcome. 1113 01:08:20,096 --> 01:08:25,637 I'd like to know the truth about the experiment. 1114 01:08:25,685 --> 01:08:32,148 My understanding, within this small group of twins 1115 01:08:32,191 --> 01:08:33,852 that were separated and studied, 1116 01:08:35,361 --> 01:08:39,821 there was more than one suicide. 1117 01:08:39,866 --> 01:08:42,699 It's almost impossible just to be a coincidence. 1118 01:08:45,955 --> 01:08:49,949 Given Eddy's mental illness... 1119 01:08:52,670 --> 01:08:54,752 ...who knows what's in their DNA. 1120 01:08:57,759 --> 01:08:59,375 If they have anything conclusive 1121 01:08:59,427 --> 01:09:02,886 that is in any way predicting anything in the future 1122 01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:06,173 that I need to know about, I wanna know about it. 1123 01:09:10,521 --> 01:09:13,684 There is still so much that we don't know. 1124 01:09:15,526 --> 01:09:18,860 I have more questions than I have answers. 1125 01:09:28,748 --> 01:09:30,705 One of the things about being a journalist 1126 01:09:30,750 --> 01:09:33,458 is that you don't know what you are gonna find out. 1127 01:09:33,503 --> 01:09:35,961 Sometimes you know what you didn't find out 1128 01:09:36,005 --> 01:09:40,090 which is frustrating like with this story. 1129 01:09:41,344 --> 01:09:44,211 Well, I didn't get to the bottom of it 1130 01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:46,425 because I never got to see the study. 1131 01:09:46,474 --> 01:09:48,260 As no one has, you know. 1132 01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:50,471 That would be the bottom of it. 1133 01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,557 But that's why this is so tantalizing. 1134 01:10:04,492 --> 01:10:06,108 Here's the research that I kept 1135 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,743 from when I was writing about twins. 1136 01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:16,077 It's been a while since I've had a look at this box. 1137 01:10:16,129 --> 01:10:18,416 Oh, this is interesting. 1138 01:10:19,257 --> 01:10:21,339 Mini cassettes. 1139 01:10:23,094 --> 01:10:28,510 Before he passed away I managed to talk to Dr Neubauer. 1140 01:10:28,558 --> 01:10:30,424 He was reluctant, 1141 01:10:30,476 --> 01:10:34,265 he had not ever spoken about it to my knowledge. 1142 01:10:34,313 --> 01:10:36,896 All right, let's see what he has to say. 1143 01:10:39,068 --> 01:10:42,402 OK, I've got it on now. 1144 01:10:42,447 --> 01:10:44,905 How did this study come about? 1145 01:10:44,949 --> 01:10:46,235 "I'll tell you, 1146 01:10:46,284 --> 01:10:49,072 'I would rather not want to speak about it 1147 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,908 "Oh, really? Why?" 1148 01:10:51,956 --> 01:10:54,368 "Until we have published it 1149 01:10:54,417 --> 01:10:57,284 'Oh, uh-huh. When do you plan to publish it?' 1150 01:10:57,336 --> 01:11:00,954 'Well, maybe, we would publish 1151 01:11:01,007 --> 01:11:03,965 'in about a year, a year and a half from now.' 1152 01:11:04,010 --> 01:11:05,717 He was certainly illusive, 1153 01:11:05,762 --> 01:11:08,003 he was protecting something. 1154 01:11:08,055 --> 01:11:11,764 'Well, tell me a little bit about the scope of the study 1155 01:11:11,809 --> 01:11:14,927 'and how many people were involved in it?' 1156 01:11:14,979 --> 01:11:18,472 'The study was only based on a small number 1157 01:11:18,524 --> 01:11:22,893 'of identical twins separated at birth, 1158 01:11:22,945 --> 01:11:25,107 'for many, many reasons. 1159 01:11:25,156 --> 01:11:27,443 'I don't want to talk about that now. 1160 01:11:27,492 --> 01:11:31,281 "We had to stop it because it became too expensive. 1161 01:11:31,329 --> 01:11:34,117 'Who was your primary support?' 1162 01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:36,532 'Oh, some private family foundations. 1163 01:11:38,044 --> 01:11:40,627 'We got some money from Washington.' 1164 01:11:42,924 --> 01:11:44,710 "OK.* 1165 01:11:44,759 --> 01:11:48,468 Private charities and Washington, what does that mean? 1166 01:11:48,513 --> 01:11:51,255 And I don't know where their funding came from. 1167 01:11:51,307 --> 01:11:52,672 'OK, thanks again for your time.' 1168 01:11:52,725 --> 01:11:53,681 "Bye.' 1169 01:11:57,522 --> 01:12:00,059 I think that there's a great deal of sensitivity 1170 01:12:00,107 --> 01:12:02,314 about this story. 1171 01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,146 There's a lot of powerful people 1172 01:12:04,195 --> 01:12:07,358 who would like to have this story silenced. 1173 01:12:10,409 --> 01:12:11,865 What happened to the study 1174 01:12:11,911 --> 01:12:13,618 as far as you're aware? 1175 01:12:13,663 --> 01:12:16,997 Before Neubauer died in 2008, 1176 01:12:17,041 --> 01:12:19,328 he left all the research materials 1177 01:12:19,377 --> 01:12:22,085 in an archive at Yale University. 1178 01:12:23,631 --> 01:12:29,502 Neubauer placed it under seal, for decades and decades. 1179 01:12:29,554 --> 01:12:34,048 So far as I know nobody's been able to access it. 1180 01:12:36,936 --> 01:12:40,019 Er... what do we have here? 1181 01:12:44,485 --> 01:12:45,975 Wow. 1182 01:12:48,823 --> 01:12:52,817 This is the Yale University website, and this appears to be 1183 01:12:52,869 --> 01:12:54,655 the Guide to Adoption Study Records 1184 01:12:54,704 --> 01:12:57,071 of the Child Development Center. 1185 01:12:57,123 --> 01:13:01,959 66 boxes filled with information: 1186 01:13:02,003 --> 01:13:06,372 charts, films and tapes and research findings. 1187 01:13:06,424 --> 01:13:09,041 Home visits, that's a big one. 1188 01:13:09,093 --> 01:13:13,178 It says that the dates of the study were from 1960 to 1980. 1189 01:13:13,222 --> 01:13:18,058 I guess our reunion, kind of closed the study. 1190 01:13:18,102 --> 01:13:21,094 "Information about access. 1191 01:13:21,147 --> 01:13:25,983 "The records are restricted until 2066." 1192 01:13:27,904 --> 01:13:29,736 It's sealed! 1193 01:13:32,825 --> 01:13:35,943 So, they did all that they did 1194 01:13:35,995 --> 01:13:38,783 to have this whole list tucked away 1195 01:13:38,831 --> 01:13:43,826 in a dusty library somewhere, where nobody can touch it. 1196 01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:49,460 "Researchers wishing to use these records 1197 01:13:49,508 --> 01:13:50,873 "before this date must secure 1198 01:13:50,927 --> 01:13:52,793 "written authorization from the Jewish Board 1199 01:13:52,845 --> 01:13:54,802 "of Family and Children's Services.” 1200 01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:03,394 The Jewish Board was the parent organization 1201 01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:07,683 of the Child Development Center run by Peter Neubauer. 1202 01:14:09,195 --> 01:14:10,651 My understanding is that 1203 01:14:10,696 --> 01:14:13,859 they are a very, very powerful organization 1204 01:14:13,908 --> 01:14:17,697 with very deep political connections. 1205 01:14:21,749 --> 01:14:23,205 'Thank you for calling 1206 01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:26,333 'the Jewish Board of Family and Children Services. 1207 01:14:26,379 --> 01:14:28,495 "Hello" 1208 01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:32,006 Yes, hi. My name is David Kellman, er... 1209 01:14:32,051 --> 01:14:36,420 and apparently, I was a, one of the subjects of a study, 1210 01:14:36,472 --> 01:14:39,590 run by the Child Development Center many years ago, 1211 01:14:39,642 --> 01:14:42,350 and it's being kept at Yale University. 1212 01:14:42,395 --> 01:14:46,013 - "Yes?" - And on their website it says 1213 01:14:46,065 --> 01:14:48,432 that I would need permission from the board 1214 01:14:48,484 --> 01:14:51,021 in order to gain access to those records, 1215 01:14:51,070 --> 01:14:54,608 and somehow the receptionist got me to you. 1216 01:14:54,657 --> 01:14:56,864 Huh, OK. uh... 1217 01:14:56,909 --> 01:14:59,697 'I'm not aware of any of that stuff or when the study was, 1218 01:14:59,745 --> 01:15:00,951 'but I can...' 1219 01:15:00,997 --> 01:15:02,362 There have been a number of journalists 1220 01:15:02,415 --> 01:15:04,702 and as far as I know, some of the twins 1221 01:15:04,750 --> 01:15:06,536 that were involved in this study 1222 01:15:06,585 --> 01:15:08,872 who have tried to gain access to this material. 1223 01:15:19,306 --> 01:15:21,843 So far as I know they haven't been able to see 1224 01:15:21,892 --> 01:15:24,429 the results of this study. 1225 01:15:24,478 --> 01:15:27,311 Is there a way that I can go directly to someone 1226 01:15:27,356 --> 01:15:29,393 that would be able to provide access to me, 1227 01:15:29,442 --> 01:15:31,774 as I was one of the subjects within the study? 1228 01:15:31,819 --> 01:15:35,562 If anybody should have the right to see all this material, 1229 01:15:35,614 --> 01:15:36,979 it's the people that were actually 1230 01:15:37,033 --> 01:15:38,398 the subject of the study. 1231 01:15:38,451 --> 01:15:40,067 They should know what was learned. 1232 01:15:41,412 --> 01:15:43,119 "I mean, I have no idea 1233 01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:47,408 "who would even be the one to ask right now. 1234 01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:48,950 "I would need to look into that. 1235 01:15:49,003 --> 01:15:52,496 OK, so you're the first line of defense, so to speak. 1236 01:15:52,548 --> 01:15:54,334 "I guess, yeah." 1237 01:15:54,383 --> 01:15:57,751 OK, I will send an email to you. I'll put at the subject line, 1238 01:15:57,803 --> 01:16:01,762 is going to be, er... "Twin Studies". 1239 01:16:01,807 --> 01:16:04,139 'Gotcha.' 1240 01:16:05,478 --> 01:16:09,267 Louise Wise Services is long closed. 1241 01:16:10,483 --> 01:16:13,191 Peter Neubauer passed away. 1242 01:16:15,821 --> 01:16:19,030 And yet we still don't know exactly 1243 01:16:19,075 --> 01:16:23,911 what they were looking for, or what they found out. 1244 01:16:44,141 --> 01:16:46,098 I'm a Clinical Psychologist 1245 01:16:46,143 --> 01:16:52,640 and I was a research assistant on Peter Neubauer's study. 1246 01:16:52,691 --> 01:16:55,604 I believe I am the only person 1247 01:16:55,653 --> 01:16:57,644 who worked on this study 1248 01:16:57,696 --> 01:16:59,278 who is willing 1249 01:16:59,323 --> 01:17:01,906 to go on record 1250 01:17:01,951 --> 01:17:03,407 about what was done. 1251 01:17:05,746 --> 01:17:07,362 I was 24. 1252 01:17:07,414 --> 01:17:10,702 This is essentially my first job. 1253 01:17:15,714 --> 01:17:21,255 You know, you had to be careful to not let on that, er... 1254 01:17:21,303 --> 01:17:25,388 "Gee, you look just like your, your twin brother." 1255 01:17:25,432 --> 01:17:30,427 I would've been fired on the spot, right? 1256 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:32,015 It was a little tempting, yeah, 1257 01:17:32,064 --> 01:17:33,600 there was, there was a little bit of temptation. 1258 01:17:33,649 --> 01:17:37,062 It's like, "Hey, I, I know your twin. 1259 01:17:37,111 --> 01:17:43,198 "I saw somebody a week ago who was exactly like you." 1260 01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:49,738 The question whether I feel guilty is interesting 1261 01:17:49,790 --> 01:17:54,330 because I never felt a responsibility. 1262 01:17:55,629 --> 01:17:59,293 I came on after this was designed. 1263 01:17:59,341 --> 01:18:01,378 However, I was a participant, 1264 01:18:01,427 --> 01:18:06,012 so you could say I was ethically compromised by that. 1265 01:18:06,056 --> 01:18:12,928 In retrospect I think it was undoubtedly ethically wrong. 1266 01:18:16,317 --> 01:18:19,776 I got some notes here. OK. 1267 01:18:20,362 --> 01:18:21,852 OK. 1268 01:18:30,623 --> 01:18:33,285 These are my actual original notes, 1269 01:18:33,334 --> 01:18:36,747 copies of psychologicals that I did. 1270 01:18:36,795 --> 01:18:40,038 And who in, who in particular are in these files? 1271 01:18:40,090 --> 01:18:42,377 Well, I have the triplets. 1272 01:18:45,179 --> 01:18:47,546 Hmm... Oh, here we go. 1273 01:18:47,598 --> 01:18:50,135 I, I'm not gonna mention the name, but, er... 1274 01:18:51,602 --> 01:18:53,468 "He's a loud, energetic boy. 1275 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,477 "His need to establish his autonomy 1276 01:18:55,522 --> 01:18:57,058 "takes to the form of showing off, 1277 01:18:57,107 --> 01:18:59,724 "both his intelligence and his strength, 1278 01:18:59,777 --> 01:19:03,361 "and putting down others including his parents." 1279 01:19:05,783 --> 01:19:09,367 Yeah, this one's eager to show off his new bicycle 1280 01:19:09,411 --> 01:19:14,372 and all of his sports equipment while I filmed him. 1281 01:19:14,416 --> 01:19:17,124 He was very intense in his play 1282 01:19:17,169 --> 01:19:22,380 and got quite... rough. 1283 01:19:22,424 --> 01:19:24,210 This kid had some problems. 1284 01:19:26,887 --> 01:19:29,254 Hyper aggressiveness. 1285 01:19:31,225 --> 01:19:32,431 OK, so apparently, 1286 01:19:32,476 --> 01:19:33,841 these parents are not cognizant 1287 01:19:33,894 --> 01:19:36,306 of his problems, nor are they able to help him 1288 01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:37,891 understand his weaknesses 1289 01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:41,478 and establish more appropriate control over his actions. 1290 01:19:41,527 --> 01:19:45,816 So, I didn't think the parents were very tuned in 1291 01:19:45,864 --> 01:19:48,526 to the struggles this youngster was having. 1292 01:19:52,371 --> 01:19:54,408 What were the findings of the study? 1293 01:19:54,456 --> 01:19:59,417 I have no idea because I left the study after 10 months 1294 01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:02,795 and the results were never published. 1295 01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:07,508 All have is my little, tiny piece. 1296 01:20:07,553 --> 01:20:11,137 It's a mystery, it's a huge loss. 1297 01:20:11,181 --> 01:20:13,548 All this important scientific data 1298 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,434 is just buried in these archives. 1299 01:20:19,148 --> 01:20:21,606 So, some people have speculated 1300 01:20:21,650 --> 01:20:24,267 that the purpose of the study, ultimate purpose, 1301 01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,186 was looking at mental health. 1302 01:20:26,238 --> 01:20:32,359 ...there was, there was never a mention of mental health 1303 01:20:32,411 --> 01:20:38,874 of the biological parents when I was in the study. 1304 01:20:40,461 --> 01:20:43,419 We were not interested in mental health, 1305 01:20:43,464 --> 01:20:46,331 that's not what we were interested in. 1306 01:20:46,383 --> 01:20:49,045 We were looking for differences in parenting. 1307 01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:57,593 We wanted to understand parenting practices 1308 01:20:57,644 --> 01:21:00,056 and how it would affect development. 1309 01:21:01,857 --> 01:21:03,723 So, you're saying they were interested more 1310 01:21:03,776 --> 01:21:05,642 in the family dynamics? 1311 01:21:05,694 --> 01:21:08,812 But they couldn't have known that. They didn't know 1312 01:21:08,864 --> 01:21:10,821 how the families were going to interact 1313 01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:13,233 with this newly-adopted child. 1314 01:21:13,285 --> 01:21:15,572 The only way they could possibly know 1315 01:21:15,621 --> 01:21:17,828 about the family dynamics 1316 01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:21,992 was if they already had a child placed in that family. 1317 01:21:22,044 --> 01:21:23,955 "Another astonishing coincidence 1318 01:21:24,004 --> 01:21:26,086 'In this story is that each of the brothers 1319 01:21:26,131 --> 01:21:28,964 'grew up in their families with an adopted sister, 1320 01:21:29,009 --> 01:21:32,218 'all the girls now 21 years old.' 1321 01:21:35,182 --> 01:21:38,470 The triplets, they all had an older sibling. 1322 01:21:38,519 --> 01:21:39,725 They were placed in families 1323 01:21:39,770 --> 01:21:42,228 where there was an older adopted child 1324 01:21:42,272 --> 01:21:45,139 that had been placed with, by Louise Wise. 1325 01:21:47,069 --> 01:21:49,481 That was part of the design. 1326 01:22:06,964 --> 01:22:09,581 It's good to see you. 1327 01:22:09,633 --> 01:22:11,795 It's good to see you. 1328 01:22:13,303 --> 01:22:15,510 I'd just like to show you guys a clip. 1329 01:22:15,556 --> 01:22:19,720 It's Lawrence Perlman, who was a researcher on the study. 1330 01:22:25,023 --> 01:22:27,515 "What were the findings of the study? 1331 01:22:27,568 --> 01:22:32,529 'I have no idea because they were never published. 1332 01:22:32,573 --> 01:22:35,782 'We were looking for differences in parenting. 1333 01:22:35,826 --> 01:22:40,070 'We wanted to understand parenting practices 1334 01:22:40,122 --> 01:22:41,863 'and how it would affect development. 1335 01:22:41,915 --> 01:22:44,282 'The triplets were placed in families 1336 01:22:44,334 --> 01:22:46,951 'where there was an older adopted child 1337 01:22:47,004 --> 01:22:50,963 'that had been placed with, by Louise Wise. 1338 01:22:51,008 --> 01:22:55,878 'That was part of the design.' 1339 01:22:55,929 --> 01:22:57,966 How do you feel watching that? 1340 01:22:58,015 --> 01:23:02,009 Like a lab rat. 1341 01:23:04,521 --> 01:23:08,059 It, it only just makes it that much... it just only... 1342 01:23:08,108 --> 01:23:09,439 It just makes it... 1343 01:23:09,485 --> 01:23:12,193 - That much worse. - ...much more duplicitous. 1344 01:23:13,238 --> 01:23:14,273 Er... 1345 01:23:14,323 --> 01:23:15,779 They're not just studying the kids, 1346 01:23:15,824 --> 01:23:19,033 but they're studying the parents. 1347 01:23:19,077 --> 01:23:23,947 So, they did in fact know the parenting style of each parent. 1348 01:23:23,999 --> 01:23:25,285 So, this was not, you know... 1349 01:23:25,334 --> 01:23:28,372 Obviously it was far from a random selection. 1350 01:23:28,420 --> 01:23:32,334 They knew exactly who they had chosen 1351 01:23:32,382 --> 01:23:38,219 to place each one of us with when they called the Gallands, 1352 01:23:38,263 --> 01:23:42,006 and the Kellmans, and the Shafrans. 1353 01:23:50,776 --> 01:23:54,895 In terms of how they parented their children 1354 01:23:54,947 --> 01:23:56,563 the three families 1355 01:23:56,615 --> 01:23:59,152 were quite, quite different. 1356 01:23:59,201 --> 01:24:00,908 Er... 1357 01:24:00,953 --> 01:24:03,741 David's father stood out. 1358 01:24:03,789 --> 01:24:06,497 There was nobody in the world like his son. 1359 01:24:06,542 --> 01:24:12,458 He was so proud of him. Whatever he did was wonderful. 1360 01:24:12,506 --> 01:24:18,627 Bobby's father was very busy as a doctor 1361 01:24:18,679 --> 01:24:23,515 and didn't have the time to be with Bobby 1362 01:24:23,559 --> 01:24:25,675 that David's father had, 1363 01:24:25,727 --> 01:24:29,391 but was as devoted to him as possible. 1364 01:24:31,275 --> 01:24:34,188 The most traditional was Eddy's father... 1365 01:24:36,196 --> 01:24:40,656 ...who was rather strict. He was the boss. 1366 01:24:40,701 --> 01:24:43,739 He made the rules and Eddy was supposed to follow. 1367 01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:49,623 Eddy's relationship with his father... 1368 01:24:52,462 --> 01:24:55,295 ...it couldn't have been good. 1369 01:24:58,885 --> 01:25:02,469 And that matters. 1370 01:25:02,514 --> 01:25:05,677 And why do you say it couldn't have been good? 1371 01:25:05,726 --> 01:25:10,471 Because otherwise, I would have known him, 1372 01:25:10,522 --> 01:25:11,887 we would have seen him, 1373 01:25:11,940 --> 01:25:15,308 Eddy would have talked about him. 1374 01:25:27,998 --> 01:25:32,287 This was the last picture we ever had of Edward. 1375 01:25:32,336 --> 01:25:34,452 He was very gregarious. 1376 01:25:34,504 --> 01:25:37,337 He got into all the things young boys do. 1377 01:25:37,382 --> 01:25:39,589 He wrecked a car 1378 01:25:39,635 --> 01:25:43,594 and a few things like that, but... 1379 01:25:43,639 --> 01:25:48,475 I mean, occasionally I disciplined him. 1380 01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:53,228 Eddy and his dad were very different as people. 1381 01:25:53,273 --> 01:25:58,689 Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid, you know, he wasn't into sports. 1382 01:25:58,737 --> 01:26:01,820 Elliott had a very strong militaristic 1383 01:26:01,865 --> 01:26:05,153 kind of approach to life, very traditional. 1384 01:26:05,202 --> 01:26:07,739 He was a teacher, he was all about punctuality. 1385 01:26:08,747 --> 01:26:13,958 I was a strict disciplinarian, 1386 01:26:14,002 --> 01:26:18,337 and my children unfortunately 1387 01:26:18,382 --> 01:26:21,124 had me as a strict disciplinarian too. 1388 01:26:24,429 --> 01:26:26,511 Eddy said he always sort of didn't feel 1389 01:26:26,556 --> 01:26:30,720 like he fit in with his family. 1390 01:26:32,979 --> 01:26:38,816 He always felt like, like he wasn't in the right place. 1391 01:26:42,823 --> 01:26:44,780 How much did you have any sense 1392 01:26:44,825 --> 01:26:48,363 that Edward was unhappy? 1393 01:26:48,412 --> 01:26:51,905 He didn't discuss his problems with me. 1394 01:26:57,462 --> 01:26:59,999 We were a rather quiet family. 1395 01:27:00,048 --> 01:27:05,043 We didn't tell our problems to one another. 1396 01:27:07,180 --> 01:27:11,845 We protected each other. It was a nice family. 1397 01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:20,224 Some people are just not a good fit. 1398 01:27:25,323 --> 01:27:28,532 It wasn't his father's fault. 1399 01:27:28,577 --> 01:27:34,619 Elliot did what he believed to be best as a parent. 1400 01:27:34,666 --> 01:27:37,875 They were just different people. 1401 01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:43,039 I got the phone call from... I believe it was Bobby. 1402 01:27:43,091 --> 01:27:47,210 And he told me to sit down 1403 01:27:47,262 --> 01:27:50,220 and I said no need to. 1404 01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:53,553 And he told me about it. 1405 01:27:53,602 --> 01:27:58,813 And then standing right there 1406 01:27:58,857 --> 01:28:02,145 I went over to my wife 1407 01:28:02,194 --> 01:28:07,064 and told her Edward had committed suicide. 1408 01:28:07,115 --> 01:28:12,110 And we stood there for quite a while, crying. 1409 01:28:16,708 --> 01:28:23,045 And... that was it. 1410 01:28:35,268 --> 01:28:40,138 I often wondered whether I didn't teach him something... 1411 01:28:42,818 --> 01:28:46,231 ...because of the way he left. 1412 01:28:47,739 --> 01:28:49,025 I don't know. 1413 01:28:49,074 --> 01:28:52,408 Maybe I didn't teach him something, 1414 01:28:52,452 --> 01:28:55,820 how to live life or something. 1415 01:28:55,872 --> 01:28:59,456 That bothers me occasionally. 1416 01:29:09,886 --> 01:29:14,596 Why did the boys' lives turn out completely different? 1417 01:29:14,641 --> 01:29:16,097 I don't need to read any books, 1418 01:29:16,142 --> 01:29:18,509 I don't need to read any studies. 1419 01:29:19,938 --> 01:29:24,057 I saw it first hand with those three boys. 1420 01:29:27,362 --> 01:29:29,353 It's all about nurture. 1421 01:29:43,545 --> 01:29:44,910 'These three young men 1422 01:29:44,963 --> 01:29:47,671 'they are all seated in the same position. 1423 01:29:49,009 --> 01:29:50,545 We found a lot of similarities 1424 01:29:50,594 --> 01:29:53,211 because that's what people were looking for. 1425 01:29:53,263 --> 01:29:54,879 They smoke the same kind of cigarettes. 1426 01:29:54,931 --> 01:29:56,171 You say, "Oh my God, 1427 01:29:56,224 --> 01:29:58,807 "they're smoking Marlboros, that's amazing." 1428 01:29:58,852 --> 01:30:01,219 What you're not looking for are their differences. 1429 01:30:01,271 --> 01:30:03,228 'I can't get over it, I'm telling you. 1430 01:30:03,273 --> 01:30:04,729 'You all wrestled at one time?' 1431 01:30:04,774 --> 01:30:05,855 'Yes.' 1432 01:30:05,901 --> 01:30:08,768 We found the ways that we were alike 1433 01:30:08,820 --> 01:30:12,188 and we emphasized them and we wanted to be alike. 1434 01:30:13,825 --> 01:30:16,658 We were falling in love with each other. 1435 01:30:16,703 --> 01:30:20,241 I think there were superficialities. 1436 01:30:20,290 --> 01:30:24,284 They liked the same things and they had similar interests, 1437 01:30:24,336 --> 01:30:27,203 but deep down they were different. 1438 01:30:28,882 --> 01:30:33,968 They were not a case study of biology being destiny. 1439 01:30:38,767 --> 01:30:42,726 I've come to believe genes and the environment 1440 01:30:42,771 --> 01:30:46,230 are close competitors. 1441 01:30:48,777 --> 01:30:51,735 You could say that we drift in the direction 1442 01:30:51,780 --> 01:30:55,694 that our genes tell us to go 1443 01:30:55,742 --> 01:30:58,404 but it doesn't mean you are destined 1444 01:30:58,453 --> 01:31:01,445 to be one person or another. 1445 01:31:05,961 --> 01:31:10,330 David] I believe that I'm still here today 1446 01:31:10,382 --> 01:31:14,751 because of the foundation that was given to me by my parents. 1447 01:31:14,803 --> 01:31:19,297 I believe that absolutely made a difference 1448 01:31:19,349 --> 01:31:21,215 in terms of struggling 1449 01:31:21,267 --> 01:31:23,099 with whatever demons I struggle with. 1450 01:31:25,563 --> 01:31:31,354 I believe nature and nurture both matter. 1451 01:31:31,403 --> 01:31:38,992 But I think nurture can overcome nearly everything. 1452 01:32:13,987 --> 01:32:15,694 Because the study's never been published 1453 01:32:15,739 --> 01:32:17,696 we simply don't know definitively 1454 01:32:17,741 --> 01:32:22,030 how many people's lives were separated in this fashion. 1455 01:32:22,078 --> 01:32:23,614 There may still be twins out there 1456 01:32:23,663 --> 01:32:26,451 who still don't know they are twins. 1457 01:32:27,751 --> 01:32:31,710 There are probably at least four individuals 1458 01:32:31,755 --> 01:32:34,042 who were subjects of this study 1459 01:32:34,090 --> 01:32:37,879 who don't know that they have a twin. 1460 01:32:37,927 --> 01:32:41,215 If they know that there are still twins out there 1461 01:32:41,264 --> 01:32:46,600 that are missing out on life, it boggles the mind. 1462 01:32:46,644 --> 01:32:48,760 There's two ways of thinking about it. 1463 01:32:48,813 --> 01:32:52,056 These people really should know that there is a twin, 1464 01:32:52,108 --> 01:32:54,600 or, "Oh my God, these people should not know 1465 01:32:54,652 --> 01:32:59,021 "that they were used this way, that will make them so upset.” 1466 01:32:59,074 --> 01:33:03,193 Maybe this is why the study cannot be published as yet, 1467 01:33:03,244 --> 01:33:05,406 until they're gone. 1468 01:33:07,499 --> 01:33:09,786 It really opens up the possibility. 1469 01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:11,950 Anybody can just walk around the corner 1470 01:33:12,003 --> 01:33:15,667 and discover that you have a twin out there.