1 00:02:47,330 --> 00:02:53,420 I wanted to make a film 2 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:59,180 that would give the people who took LSD at that time 3 00:02:59,340 --> 00:03:04,350 the hallucinations that you get with that drug but without hallucinating. 4 00:03:04,510 --> 00:03:09,810 I did not want LSD to be taken, I wanted to fabricate the drug's effects. 5 00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:14,730 This film was going to change the public's perceptions. 6 00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:28,000 My ambition with Dune was tremendous. 7 00:03:29,750 --> 00:03:33,710 So, what I wanted was to create a prophet. 8 00:04:47,990 --> 00:04:50,500 You needed a touch of madness to do it. 9 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,040 You can't have a masterpiece without madness. 10 00:04:53,210 --> 00:04:57,000 Pink Floyd? Dali or Orson Welles or others! 11 00:04:58,290 --> 00:05:00,340 Maybe Dune had too much madness? 12 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,470 But a movie that doesn't have a bit of madness is not going to conquer the whole world. 13 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:50,473 I don't think that in the history of cinema there was ever a film that was taken that far, 14 00:06:50,497 --> 00:06:52,223 only to end up not being made. 15 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:53,538 To become a different film, 16 00:06:53,562 --> 00:06:57,370 since a film was made that had nothing to do with those two-and-a-half years of work. 17 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:35,300 I was exposed to it in the underground cinema in New York. 18 00:10:35,460 --> 00:10:39,640 And after that we had the courage to attempt to distribute it in France, 19 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:45,390 and it was an incredible success for this movie that was quite revolutionary, 20 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:49,910 and a natural friendship was born between Alejandro and me. 21 00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:55,440 Thanks to the success of El Topo I got one million dollars to make The Holy Mountain. 22 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:03,120 I did whatever I wanted. 23 00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:10,000 I didn't have a producer, no critic, no one to mess with me. 24 00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:13,880 I did what I wanted and it was The Holy Mountain. 25 00:11:44,620 --> 00:11:48,250 I gave the movie to Michel Seydoux in France. 26 00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:52,500 And, oh, surprise, in Europe it attracted a great number of people. 27 00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:55,340 It was playing openly. 28 00:11:56,090 --> 00:12:01,090 In Italy that year, it was the number two movie behind James Bond. 29 00:12:01,930 --> 00:12:05,100 The Holy Mountain was incredible. 30 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:15,440 So my ambition grew. 31 00:12:57,820 --> 00:13:02,780 I have never made movies or transactions unless there was something more to them. 32 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:06,280 A relationship between human beings is what makes the difference. 33 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Why? 34 00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:26,470 Because the book was the most beautiful science fiction book. 35 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,930 It was the bible of science fiction for all the big devotees. 36 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,770 Because the book had been a worldwide publishing success 37 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,270 that you could find in every country. 38 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,760 Hollywood sold us the rights for nothing, mockingly on the inside, I believe, 39 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,020 thinking that we would never be able to carry out such a thing. 40 00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:02,190 It was a great undertaking to do the script. 41 00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:08,780 Michel Seydoux brought me to France. 42 00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:11,410 He rented a castle, a huge castle, 43 00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:16,080 and I was in that castle dedicated solely to Dune. 44 00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:21,249 Frank Herbert created a world in Dune 45 00:15:21,373 --> 00:15:24,943 but he never said exactly what it was. 46 00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:29,220 And you have a hundred pages of literature 47 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,390 where you go on to discover, with great difficulty, what the book is about. 48 00:15:35,010 --> 00:15:41,310 It's very... It's like... I compare it to Proust, in French literature. 49 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,900 It's literary, it's great literature. 50 00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:58,850 He had the genius to make a storyboard with Moebius. 51 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,010 The first actor is the father, the Duke Leto. 52 00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:45,700 David Carradine had starred in a very popular television series 53 00:29:46,530 --> 00:29:49,870 in which he was a warrior who was taught by masters from the Orient. 54 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:52,950 It was influenced by El Topo. 55 00:29:54,750 --> 00:30:01,250 Then when Carradine knew that I wanted him he came he came running. 56 00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:06,970 I waited for him in Los Angeles in a hotel room. 57 00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:10,530 I had bought vitamin E. 58 00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:27,840 It happened during a meeting. 59 00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:31,140 "Pink Floyd?" Gibon said, "Okay, I'll go!" 60 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:35,720 He called Pink Floyd's agent. He said, "Could I meet with you?" 61 00:31:35,890 --> 00:31:38,690 So one day we went to London. 62 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,400 They were in the middle of finishing the mixing 63 00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:48,200 of Dark Side Of The Moon, at Abbey Road, the famous studio. 64 00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:53,641 And I remember we got there and they were... 65 00:31:53,665 --> 00:31:58,563 very distant, very standoffish pop stars, distant. 66 00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:20,180 All of a sudden, Jodo, we called him Jodo, Jodo said, "No. They're pissing me off. Let's go!" 67 00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:53,760 And after that it went very, very, very well. Very, very, very well, yeah. 68 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,170 Today you are seven years old. 69 00:34:49,330 --> 00:34:50,670 Now you are a man. 70 00:34:51,420 --> 00:34:54,010 Bury your first toy and your mother's picture. 71 00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:52,295 When we started, he was twelve. 72 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,853 There I trained him in karate, karate jujitsu, Japanese style. 73 00:35:55,900 --> 00:36:02,160 That's all the fist-foot techniques, joint locks, floor pins, standing pins, 74 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,280 a combination of karate, judo, aikido and atemi-jitsu. 75 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,140 I trained Brontis six hours a day, seven days a week for two years. 76 00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:09,580 For me science fiction was like a huge theater, like a huge work of art. 77 00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:20,040 Every spaceship was a being like an insect, like a fabulous bird. 78 00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:34,930 They were ships with souls, like beings. 79 00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:38,020 It had to be Chris Foss. 80 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,150 Dali, to us, he seemed to be the only emperor of the world, 81 00:46:01,210 --> 00:46:05,590 with that extraordinary talent, with his speech and his wording. 82 00:46:29,660 --> 00:46:33,000 The first time we went to New York was with Michel Seydoux. 83 00:46:34,580 --> 00:46:39,130 We went to the St. Regis because Michel Seydoux liked the St. Regis Hotel. 84 00:46:40,250 --> 00:46:43,800 And we discovered that Dali was also at the St. Regis Hotel! 85 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:15,080 The bar had a six meter long painting, pre-Rafaelite, where there was a king 86 00:47:16,180 --> 00:47:21,470 and the nobles had a face like they were hiding something. 87 00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:25,180 Dali told me, 88 00:47:25,604 --> 00:47:28,653 "I like it here because there is a six meter painting dedicated to a fart." 89 00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:36,480 Dali told me, "We are going to see each other in Paris." 90 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,350 "I am going to think about it." 91 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,990 In Paris, on the Champs Elysées, there was a very fancy restaurant 92 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,210 and he was there with his court. 93 00:47:59,370 --> 00:48:03,630 He had twelve--twelve!--persons at the table and him. 94 00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:13,240 It was a game. 95 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:21,540 Also, Jodorowsky was part of the surrealist movement and Dali liked that. 96 00:49:21,710 --> 00:49:24,790 So it was a game between them. 97 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,040 Who would win the game? 98 00:49:27,210 --> 00:49:29,630 He was going through his first adventure with Amanda Lear, 99 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,090 this sort of extraordinarily sexy person. 100 00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:36,550 Nobody ever knew if it was a man or a woman, 101 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:40,680 a completely incredible character. 102 00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:44,730 A sort of muse, a poet's muse. 103 00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:07,790 And you had to meet him you had to tame him and he needed to tame you. 104 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,090 So he would make you go through these initiations each time. 105 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,080 She treated me very well, and she became an ally, 106 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:42,990 because I promised her the role of Princess Irulan. 107 00:51:00,010 --> 00:51:04,890 She said, "Be careful because Dali is destructive." 108 00:51:05,060 --> 00:51:07,890 "If he says 'yes' he is going to do everything to destroy the film." 109 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,980 "Best paid actor in Hollywood." 110 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:52,520 "I want $100,000 per hour." 111 00:51:52,980 --> 00:51:55,900 I went back and told Alejandro, "We're never going to make it!" 112 00:51:56,070 --> 00:51:59,320 But I couldn't pay him "the most in the world." That would be impossible. 113 00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:00,990 Then step by step, 114 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,717 because we were stubborn and because Alejandro would tell me 115 00:52:02,740 --> 00:52:05,100 that Dali was the only one who could play the emperor, 116 00:52:05,540 --> 00:52:07,290 the totalitarian emperor, 117 00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:13,710 we had the idea of paying him by the minutes used. 118 00:52:14,380 --> 00:52:17,737 I go to see Alejandro and ask, "How many minutes is he going to be filmed?" 119 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,930 "How many minutes will he be in the movie?" 120 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,060 Alejandro says, "Maximum five, probably three." 121 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:26,920 So I said, "That's the idea!" 122 00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:30,890 I go back to see Dali and I say, "I will pay you $100,000 per minute!" 123 00:52:31,060 --> 00:52:36,190 He says, "That's brilliant! I will be the $100,000 a minute actor!" 124 00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:59,436 Paris was where 125 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:15,960 Jodorowsky and Dan O'Bannon saw my work displayed and they wanted me to join them. 126 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,730 Giger had never done movies. 127 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:26,890 I said, "You have to make movies." 128 00:54:27,050 --> 00:54:32,890 It was completely new to me and incredibly fascinating. 129 00:54:55,810 --> 00:54:59,710 I met Jodorowsky for the first time in Paris. 130 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:09,340 This was the evening when he attended a Magma concert. 131 00:55:35,890 --> 00:55:41,658 I knew nothing about the project, or the idea, or the book for that matter. 132 00:55:42,482 --> 00:55:44,983 I learned about all of that afterwards. 133 00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:49,760 Alejandro Jodorowsky didn't give us any direction on the music. 134 00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:51,930 I believe he trusted us. 135 00:55:52,430 --> 00:55:58,230 Now I had an idea because he had described the planet, the Harkonnen. 136 00:55:58,390 --> 00:56:02,480 I knew that they were not really the good guys, that they were more like the bad guys. 137 00:56:02,650 --> 00:56:04,730 So it was rather easy to imagine because 138 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:12,490 Magma made music that was rather violent, typically hard, things like that. 139 00:56:17,940 --> 00:56:20,390 I was just amazed by the quality 140 00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:26,590 and I told them I felt just like Christ when he was on the cross. 141 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:31,300 I was fulfilled, it was fascinating, the music. 142 00:56:50,450 --> 00:56:54,870 I wanted Mick Jagger to play Feyd-Rautha, a character. 143 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,750 How am I going to contact this person 144 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,170 who is not going to be impressed that I have the great power to make a movie? 145 00:57:10,340 --> 00:57:13,275 He is in the peak of his fame, of his glory. 146 00:57:14,299 --> 00:57:15,543 How? 147 00:57:15,890 --> 00:57:19,890 And I was invited to an event in Paris. 148 00:57:20,060 --> 00:57:25,060 It was a big gathering of the Parisian bourgeoisie and at the other side of the room, a big room, 149 00:57:25,230 --> 00:57:31,740 I don't know, maybe one hundred fifty square meters, was Mick Jagger. 150 00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:38,990 I saw him from a distance and I think he saw me, and I saw him walking, he started walking... 151 00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:45,080 He started walking between the people and then I realized that he was coming to me. 152 00:57:45,250 --> 00:57:48,920 He crossed the room and he stood in front of me. 153 00:57:49,090 --> 00:57:51,590 And I told him, "I want you for my movie." 154 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,000 And he said only one word: "Yes." 155 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:03,770 I was often invited to Andy Warhol's Factory, Candy Darling and all those people. 156 00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:08,940 There I met Udo Kier, who was Andy Warhol's great actor. 157 00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:16,950 He had played great roles, and he said that he would act for me. 158 01:00:07,390 --> 01:00:09,270 Orson Welles had a bad reputation 159 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:18,900 because they said that he liked to drink and eat so much that he ate at the movies. 160 01:00:19,070 --> 01:00:24,200 He ate a lot and then he did not finish the movies. He was moody. 161 01:00:24,370 --> 01:00:29,210 But I said: "No, Orson Welles is a genius, he is the one." 162 01:00:29,830 --> 01:00:34,710 And since he liked to eat, they say he goes to the gastronomic restaurants in Paris. 163 01:00:35,380 --> 01:00:44,100 Therefore I sent a secretary to ask in all the gastronomic restaurants in Paris: 164 01:00:44,260 --> 01:00:47,470 "Where does Orson Welles eat?" 165 01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:49,836 I had the artworks from the movie, which I got from Moebius, 166 01:01:50,860 --> 01:01:52,483 who drew the storyboard, 167 01:01:52,530 --> 01:01:56,270 where one can see the Harkonnen Castle. 168 01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:44,840 I was fascinated by the creation of the Harkonnen people 169 01:02:45,010 --> 01:02:57,690 and when I airbrushed five paintings I gave my best to create these designs. 170 01:03:44,820 --> 01:03:50,410 If attacked, then the spears would be set in motion and impale the people 171 01:03:50,570 --> 01:03:57,580 who stood in the way on the pathway up the castle. 172 01:03:57,910 --> 01:04:04,340 And in fact this Harkonnen fortress was never in the novel. 173 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:17,580 So this was somehow in Alejandro Jodorowsky's translation, his interpretation of the story. 174 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,440 It was such a beautiful object. 175 01:07:56,610 --> 01:08:00,200 So well done and at the time, there were no photocopies. 176 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:06,910 It was just photos of each drawing. In color, so well done, 177 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,489 with so much detail about the costumes, 178 01:08:09,613 --> 01:08:11,773 about the techniques used. 179 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,660 This approach was chosen precisely because 180 01:08:28,730 --> 01:08:33,190 I was thinking they might have a certain distrust of Jodorowsky. 181 01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,147 But since we were showing the camera angles, 182 01:08:36,171 --> 01:08:40,650 since we explained each scene the way we wanted to film it, 183 01:08:40,820 --> 01:08:42,660 they should have been relieved. 184 01:08:43,410 --> 01:08:46,080 But they weren't. It wasn't enough. 185 01:08:54,460 --> 01:08:57,420 In Los Angeles I wasn't optimistic. 186 01:09:00,480 --> 01:09:02,037 The thing is that sometimes the French and the Americans 187 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:03,580 have difficult relationships, you know. 188 01:09:04,850 --> 01:09:05,960 Well, we have had. 189 01:09:06,930 --> 01:09:12,900 We were almost at the finish line, but we had to find the last five million dollars. 190 01:09:13,770 --> 01:09:17,230 The film cost fifteen million dollars. Well, we estimated it as fifteen million. 191 01:09:18,230 --> 01:09:22,860 We had been invited to Walt Disney studios by the chairman of the board. 192 01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:27,120 He looked through the project and said: 193 01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,830 "This is a wonderful project," 194 01:09:31,410 --> 01:09:33,420 "but it is like the Concorde." 195 01:09:33,580 --> 01:09:37,290 "It's an exceptional plane, but over here, never!" 196 01:09:37,460 --> 01:09:42,420 And there I said to myself that we were going to face a lot of problems. 197 01:10:11,450 --> 01:10:16,880 They always received us in a very friendly way but it was always the same answer. 198 01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:20,750 When we would give them the book, they were very impressed. 199 01:10:20,810 --> 01:10:22,370 They had never seen anything like it. 200 01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,970 Each time, they would tell us, "It's superb. It's very well constructed." 201 01:10:29,890 --> 01:10:33,520 "You've solved the technical problems of those special effects." 202 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:35,850 "It's economically reasonable." 203 01:10:37,270 --> 01:10:39,610 "But we don't get your director." 204 01:10:48,530 --> 01:10:53,580 Hollywood did not visualize science fiction that way. 205 01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:59,420 It was in 2001: A Space Odyssey or in small B movies. 206 01:10:59,590 --> 01:11:04,470 But a huge movie, that would cost millions of dollars with all the effects. 207 01:11:04,630 --> 01:11:06,280 They did not conceive of that. 208 01:11:07,260 --> 01:11:08,590 Maybe it was a bit long as well. 209 01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:13,430 Maybe the film was... a bit too long. 210 01:11:54,770 --> 01:11:56,890 The totally outrageous side of Jodorowsky, 211 01:11:57,060 --> 01:12:01,610 especially after The Holy Mountain and El Topo, 212 01:12:02,110 --> 01:12:05,400 did not give them faith that he could lead this very ambitious project. 213 01:12:05,570 --> 01:12:09,700 Because fifteen million dollars in the middle of the seventies was a lot of money. 214 01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,580 And that was their answer even though they found everything else to be perfect. 215 01:12:13,740 --> 01:12:15,790 Everything was great, except the director. 216 01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:18,460 You have to be like a poet. 217 01:12:18,620 --> 01:12:22,210 Your movie must be just as you think of it and just as you want it. 218 01:12:22,380 --> 01:12:27,300 Do not take comments to change this or that from this person or the other. No! 219 01:12:28,470 --> 01:12:31,840 The movie has to be just like I dream it. 220 01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:57,450 Very disappointed. Very disappointed because we all believed in it. 221 01:14:57,610 --> 01:14:59,340 I believed in it. 222 01:15:07,460 --> 01:15:12,429 Now this is my take on it, but I think he didn't feel 223 01:15:12,453 --> 01:15:16,953 like doing something else after such a project, 224 01:15:17,090 --> 01:15:20,260 which was the project of his life, I believe. That's my feeling. 225 01:15:20,430 --> 01:15:25,980 I think that the humiliation that Alejandro Jodorowsky suffered, in not having been chosen, 226 01:15:26,140 --> 01:15:30,980 in having been eliminated for being too original, being too surrealistic, 227 01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,690 that is a permanent injury. 228 01:15:32,860 --> 01:15:35,820 I think that Jodorowsky carries that in his heart for life. 229 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,480 I was convinced that it would be something great. 230 01:15:45,250 --> 01:15:54,590 But then Dino De Laurentiis' daughter came along and took the project away from us, 231 01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,170 and gave it to David Lynch. 232 01:17:36,730 --> 01:17:39,820 I've never seen the movie and I never will. 233 01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:12,370 I think it was a guide, a guide for some. 234 01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:19,170 In any case, I am convinced that our storyboard made the rounds in the halls of Hollywood. 235 01:19:19,210 --> 01:19:22,590 I can't imagine that isn't the case. It pleases me to imagine that. 236 01:19:22,750 --> 01:19:24,190 You always have to see the positive.