1 00:00:00,094 --> 00:00:05,314 (machine beeps) (dramatic music) (static hissing) 2 00:00:10,485 --> 00:00:13,652 (gentle upbeat music) 3 00:00:18,818 --> 00:00:21,735 (group chattering) 4 00:00:23,389 --> 00:00:25,889 (air blowing) 5 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:36,260 - [Matt] Being a dad is one 6 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:37,941 of the great privileges of my life. 7 00:00:37,941 --> 00:00:42,410 (confetti thuds) Give my son a BB gun, 8 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:45,710 and that's just about all the emotional support he needs. 9 00:00:45,710 --> 00:00:47,210 My daughter on the other hand, 10 00:00:48,890 --> 00:00:51,110 I've heard people say that there are no differences 11 00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:55,223 between male and female, those people are idiots. 12 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,120 I'm a husband. I'm a father of four. 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,993 I host a talk show. I give speeches. I write books. 14 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:05,530 I like to make sense of things, 15 00:01:06,650 --> 00:01:09,650 but making sense of females is a whole other matter. 16 00:01:09,650 --> 00:01:11,510 Even astrophysicist, Stephen Hawking, 17 00:01:11,510 --> 00:01:13,730 who could come up with a theory on black holes 18 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:16,250 was completely dumbfounded by women. 19 00:01:16,250 --> 00:01:19,640 - [Stephen] Women, they are a complete mystery. 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:20,990 - [Matt] And now our culture is telling us 21 00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:23,780 that the difference is between girls and boys don't matter. 22 00:01:23,780 --> 00:01:25,250 That if you identify as something, 23 00:01:25,250 --> 00:01:27,890 then you are that thing. (group chattering) 24 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:29,960 How do we help our kids make sense of this 25 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,060 when they're bombarded with conflicting messages 26 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:33,443 about gender and identity? 27 00:01:34,490 --> 00:01:37,010 Forget trying to figure out women, 28 00:01:37,010 --> 00:01:39,990 the real question is what is a woman? 29 00:01:39,990 --> 00:01:45,620 (fast tempo brooding music) - As you grow your body changes 30 00:01:45,620 --> 00:01:48,170 from that of a young girl to that of woman. 31 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:50,240 - [Narrator] Soon Molly will be a young woman 32 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,723 having dates, going to dances in lovely romantic dresses. 33 00:01:54,770 --> 00:01:56,300 - [Instructor] The boys' shoulders are broad 34 00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:59,150 and his body muscular. While the girl's body is more curved. 35 00:01:59,150 --> 00:02:02,300 - I'd like to know more about different kinds of hormones. 36 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:04,220 - [Instructor] Presence of these hormones in the blood 37 00:02:04,220 --> 00:02:06,440 brings about many changes in the bodies 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,652 of both boys and girls. (group laughing) 39 00:02:11,750 --> 00:02:15,759 - Being a woman is one the things I like best about myself. 40 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:20,759 I think you'll like it too. 41 00:02:24,133 --> 00:02:27,800 (slow tempo dramatic music) 42 00:02:29,905 --> 00:02:32,823 (fast tempo gentle music) 43 00:02:32,823 --> 00:02:34,923 - [Matt] I like to come out here to think. 44 00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:38,573 Nature seems to always tell the truth, 45 00:02:39,980 --> 00:02:41,630 even when we don't wanna hear it. 46 00:02:44,780 --> 00:02:48,117 Truth is I'm not very good at fishing. 47 00:02:48,117 --> 00:02:52,760 (rod whooshing) But what is truth? (rod whooshes) 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,753 Is there a truth? 49 00:02:54,770 --> 00:02:56,723 Is this what progress looks like? 50 00:02:57,740 --> 00:02:59,963 Can my boys really become girls? 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,363 Do I have four daughters? 52 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,230 Do I now have to pay for four weddings? 53 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,373 Is there a son trapped in my daughter's body? 54 00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:13,150 If so, how do I get him out? 55 00:03:14,810 --> 00:03:16,810 Are any of my kids who they claim to be? 56 00:03:18,103 --> 00:03:20,953 Who are these people? Who am I? 57 00:03:22,833 --> 00:03:24,888 I better see a therapist. (water trickling) 58 00:03:24,888 --> 00:03:25,721 - In the state of Tennessee, 59 00:03:25,721 --> 00:03:28,040 I'm a licensed marital and family therapist, 60 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,540 which basically means I've been trained up 61 00:03:29,540 --> 00:03:31,790 to think about like systems, family systems, 62 00:03:31,790 --> 00:03:34,520 how we were raised up, how that shapes who we are today. 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,960 - So on your website, quote if you'll, 64 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,340 if you'll bear with me. - Sure. 65 00:03:37,340 --> 00:03:39,920 - Quoting, you say, "I use a combination of approaches 66 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,770 in my therapeutic work, including anti-oppression feminist 67 00:03:42,770 --> 00:03:45,740 and narrative frameworks." "I rely deeply on systems theory 68 00:03:45,740 --> 00:03:47,060 and understanding that individuals 69 00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:49,250 are products of and in dialogue with our surroundings, 70 00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:51,230 including our families, broader culture, workplaces, 71 00:03:51,230 --> 00:03:56,300 nature, and political climates." What does that mean? 72 00:03:56,300 --> 00:04:01,010 - Yeah, so thinking about the modalities that I use, 73 00:04:01,010 --> 00:04:05,000 I'm definitely informed by like feminist family therapy 74 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,990 and the ideas that we live in gendered worlds 75 00:04:08,990 --> 00:04:11,090 where there are certain imperatives 76 00:04:11,090 --> 00:04:13,580 that are placed on us about who we are and what we do 77 00:04:13,580 --> 00:04:15,380 based on how we've been gendered. 78 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:18,530 From the minute I was assigned female, I was told, 79 00:04:18,530 --> 00:04:19,910 okay, these are the kind of clothing 80 00:04:19,910 --> 00:04:21,647 that you're gonna wear. These are the kind of the, 81 00:04:21,647 --> 00:04:25,310 the type of play that you're gonna engage in as a child. 82 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:27,380 The path that maybe your life will take 83 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:29,360 because of social expectations. 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,906 - What do you, what do you mean by assigned female? 85 00:04:30,906 --> 00:04:32,906 Who, who assigns female? 86 00:04:35,060 --> 00:04:38,540 - Yeah, so most times people when they're born 87 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:40,790 they're assigned a gender. - By the? 88 00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:42,830 - The doctor. - Doctors. - [Gert] Yeah. 89 00:04:42,830 --> 00:04:47,540 - Like what do they, what do they base that assignment on? 90 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:50,213 - So basically it's, it's based on genitalia. 91 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:54,080 So people looking at genitalia and deciding, 92 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,363 okay, this is a, a girl or a boy. 93 00:04:57,380 --> 00:05:00,140 And we know now that like that sex and gender 94 00:05:00,140 --> 00:05:02,030 are so much more than just this binary. 95 00:05:02,030 --> 00:05:05,720 Some women have penises, right? Some men have vaginas. 96 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,312 That, that, that's not how, how gender works. 97 00:05:08,312 --> 00:05:10,281 - How do we know that, how do we know that that's not true? 98 00:05:10,281 --> 00:05:11,337 Where, where did we, where did we learn that from? 99 00:05:11,337 --> 00:05:15,020 - Yeah, well, we, I, I learned that 100 00:05:15,020 --> 00:05:17,990 from hearing from transgender people, 101 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:20,720 who've said like, oh, I'm a trans woman, 102 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,790 and just because I happen to have a penis, right, 103 00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:27,790 that doesn't mean that this is like who I am as a person or, 104 00:05:28,190 --> 00:05:30,713 or that genitalia doesn't equal gender. 105 00:05:31,610 --> 00:05:34,210 Who they are, their gender, their gender expression. 106 00:05:35,330 --> 00:05:37,760 That, yeah, a trans woman is a woman. 107 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,887 - With the fluidity of these things, 108 00:05:39,887 --> 00:05:43,580 how do I know if, if I'm a woman, you know? I, I. 109 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:44,960 - That's a great question. 110 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,640 - I like scented candles and- - Yeah. 111 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,063 - I've watched "Sex and the City". - Yeah. - Um. - Yeah. 112 00:05:51,140 --> 00:05:53,810 - So how do I know? - Yeah, Matt, that question right there, 113 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:58,100 like that question is like, 114 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:00,440 when it's asked with a lot of curiosity, right? 115 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,090 That's the beginning of a lot of people's 116 00:06:02,090 --> 00:06:04,940 like gender identity development journeys. 117 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:09,950 - If my mom who gave birth to me is a woman. - Mm-hmm. 118 00:06:09,950 --> 00:06:13,933 - And my wife is a woman, though I haven't asked her. 119 00:06:13,933 --> 00:06:15,183 Maybe I should. 120 00:06:16,397 --> 00:06:17,420 But if they're all women 121 00:06:17,420 --> 00:06:19,430 and also the boy who sits down with you and says, 122 00:06:19,430 --> 00:06:22,280 I, I think I'm a girl actually is one, 123 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:25,603 then, then what is a woman? - Mm. 124 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,443 Yeah. Great question. 125 00:06:29,443 --> 00:06:33,114 I'm not a woman, so I, I can't really answer that. 126 00:06:33,114 --> 00:06:35,864 (brooding music) 127 00:06:38,090 --> 00:06:40,490 - I thought therapy would make me less confused. 128 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:43,470 Am I the only one feeling this way? 129 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:46,682 I need to hit the road and find out. 130 00:06:46,682 --> 00:06:51,682 (gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming) 131 00:06:52,692 --> 00:06:57,410 (traffic humming) We're talking about gender in society. 132 00:06:57,410 --> 00:07:01,223 Let me start with a real basic question. What is a woman? 133 00:07:06,064 --> 00:07:08,510 - A woman. (group laughs) 134 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:10,657 - I don't wanna assume, but you guys are all. 135 00:07:10,657 --> 00:07:12,323 - Yeah. - Women. - We're all women. - Yes. 136 00:07:12,323 --> 00:07:13,156 - Yes. - We're women. 137 00:07:13,156 --> 00:07:15,643 - So how would you define it, like in the simplest terms? 138 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,270 - That is hard. - Yeah, it is, it is a stumper. 139 00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:22,670 - A woman is someone that likes to be pretty 140 00:07:22,670 --> 00:07:27,140 and think of themself as a delicate creature. 141 00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:29,005 - I'm pretty and delicate. - Okay. 142 00:07:29,005 --> 00:07:31,340 - I could be a woman too. - Yes, you could. 143 00:07:31,340 --> 00:07:35,780 - Defining womanhood is just a project of someone 144 00:07:35,780 --> 00:07:36,770 who identifies as a woman. 145 00:07:36,770 --> 00:07:39,233 - Yeah, but what, like, what do they identify? 146 00:07:39,233 --> 00:07:40,899 You see what I'm saying? What do they identify as? 147 00:07:40,899 --> 00:07:42,913 They identify as a woman, but what is that? 148 00:07:43,790 --> 00:07:46,824 - I honestly, don't know. (brooding music) 149 00:07:46,824 --> 00:07:48,424 - [Matt] It's a simple question, 150 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,193 so why is it so hard to answer? 151 00:07:54,770 --> 00:07:57,443 This is gonna take some serious investigation. 152 00:07:59,341 --> 00:08:02,674 (slow tempo jazz music) 153 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,010 For all of human existence women 154 00:08:10,010 --> 00:08:11,910 were understood to be a certain thing, 155 00:08:12,859 --> 00:08:16,043 (screen whooshes) so what changed? 156 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,150 No one can seem to answer the question now. 157 00:08:20,180 --> 00:08:22,970 Over 2000 surgeries and counting, Dr. Marci Bowers 158 00:08:22,970 --> 00:08:25,270 is the nation's preeminent sex change surgeon. 159 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:28,100 Surely someone who does sex change surgeries 160 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:29,154 can answer what a woman is. 161 00:08:29,154 --> 00:08:34,154 (gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming) 162 00:08:36,380 --> 00:08:39,530 Dr. Marci Bowers, first of all, thanks for talking to us. 163 00:08:39,530 --> 00:08:40,363 - My pleasure. 164 00:08:40,363 --> 00:08:43,160 - So you're a world renowned gynecologist and surgeon. 165 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,320 You're also a transgender woman. 166 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,340 Can you tell me a little bit about- 167 00:08:46,340 --> 00:08:50,840 - No, I mean, I identify as a woman, but. 168 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:51,770 - You're a woman, right? 169 00:08:51,770 --> 00:08:56,090 - I'm a woman with, I mean, that's my life day-to-day, 170 00:08:56,090 --> 00:08:58,843 but I have a transgender history. - Hmm. 171 00:08:58,843 --> 00:09:00,170 So one, one thing on your website, 172 00:09:00,170 --> 00:09:04,310 it says gender affirm, GAV, gender affirming vaginal plasty. 173 00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:07,010 - Mm-hmm. - What is that exactly? 174 00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:10,820 - Vaginal plasty is creation of, of female, 175 00:09:10,820 --> 00:09:13,760 a, a female vagina and vulva. 176 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,520 We're altering the physical characteristics 177 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:21,140 of the individual to, to fit better with a gender identity 178 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:23,330 that, that is female. 179 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:25,790 - This is all constructed from the penis? 180 00:09:25,790 --> 00:09:26,990 - Yes, that's right. 181 00:09:26,990 --> 00:09:29,540 The surgeries are quite refined in the sense 182 00:09:29,540 --> 00:09:33,740 that they really not only do they look like female anatomy, 183 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:36,470 but they also function that way for the most part. 184 00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:38,960 I mean, certainly it's a bit of a Faustian bargain, 185 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,310 you know, it's not perfect. 186 00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:43,970 - Does anyone ever regret their surgeries 187 00:09:43,970 --> 00:09:45,110 or we know they do, 188 00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:47,810 but how often do people regret their surgeries? 189 00:09:47,810 --> 00:09:49,490 - Well, actually we don't know that they do. 190 00:09:49,490 --> 00:09:51,890 There are legitimate detransitioner 191 00:09:51,890 --> 00:09:56,890 and there are people who truly feel that in their journey, 192 00:09:57,230 --> 00:09:59,210 they may have made a mistake. 193 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:01,820 Now, fortunately, this is a really, 194 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:04,370 really uncommon phenomenon. 195 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:05,704 - I don't know if you've ever heard of people 196 00:10:05,704 --> 00:10:08,270 in the transabled community, 197 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:11,450 these are people who are physically able-bodied, 198 00:10:11,450 --> 00:10:15,740 but feel like they should be disabled or identify as such. 199 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:18,170 For example, a man who has two arms, 200 00:10:18,170 --> 00:10:19,550 but feels like you should have one. 201 00:10:19,550 --> 00:10:22,820 If a, if a man in this kind of marginalized community 202 00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:24,230 was, went to the doctor and said, 203 00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:26,543 I want to have my arm cut off, 204 00:10:27,424 --> 00:10:28,395 do you think that- 205 00:10:28,395 --> 00:10:30,860 - That doesn't have anything to do with gender identity. 206 00:10:30,860 --> 00:10:34,250 - Well, it's someone's, someone's self identity. 207 00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:35,197 How someone identifies. - That's some, 208 00:10:35,197 --> 00:10:39,470 that's someone who has a, a, 209 00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:42,410 and I'll accept it as a mental diagnosis, 210 00:10:42,410 --> 00:10:45,830 a psychiatric condition. I don't even pretend to know 211 00:10:45,830 --> 00:10:47,840 what apotemnophilia is all about. 212 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,820 But somehow it's the idea that you, and, you know, 213 00:10:49,820 --> 00:10:52,820 you're fascinated or charmed by having a limb 214 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:55,333 or part of a limb missing. - Hmm. 215 00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:59,030 - Okay, I would say that's, uh, 216 00:10:59,030 --> 00:11:01,763 pardon my non-medical language, kooky. 217 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,053 - You don't see any, you think this is totally irrelevant? 218 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,600 - Yep. 219 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,600 - So the biggest broadest question is what is a woman? 220 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,977 - A woman is a, you know, 221 00:11:17,977 --> 00:11:22,400 it's a combination of your physical attributes, 222 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,830 and then what you're showing to the world, 223 00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:27,650 and the gender clues that you give, 224 00:11:27,650 --> 00:11:30,680 and hopefully those match your gender identity. 225 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:34,086 - The critics on the other side of this, 226 00:11:34,086 --> 00:11:36,200 of, of this, of this issue. 227 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,930 - There aren't many, but go ahead. 228 00:11:38,930 --> 00:11:41,090 - There aren't many who would disagree 229 00:11:41,090 --> 00:11:42,890 with what you're saying about. 230 00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:44,960 - Well, you know, the dinosaurs of the world 231 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:50,472 are certainly out there. - Hmm. - Yeah. (upbeat music) 232 00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:56,270 - How long have you been running the shop here? 233 00:11:56,270 --> 00:11:58,513 - 25 Years. - Wow. 234 00:11:58,513 --> 00:12:00,290 Now you had an incident here a little while ago 235 00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:02,450 that went really viral online. 236 00:12:02,450 --> 00:12:04,280 Lots of reaction in the public. 237 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,590 - [Reporter] Aberdeen Councilwoman Tiesa Meskis 238 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:09,770 confronted owner Don Sucher about a sign 239 00:12:09,770 --> 00:12:11,390 he posted in his store. 240 00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:13,970 - One day I just put the sign up over here, 241 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:16,370 and he came around the corner, 242 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:18,410 and I thought, okay, I recognize him. 243 00:12:18,410 --> 00:12:20,487 I says, "Oh, I recognize you." 244 00:12:20,487 --> 00:12:22,550 "You're our new city councilman." 245 00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:25,610 He says, "No, I'm your new city councilwoman." 246 00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:28,520 So it was, it was kind of on from there. 247 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,010 - [Tiesa] You know what? It's bullshit. 248 00:12:31,010 --> 00:12:32,960 - No, what your spouting is bullshit. 249 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,570 - [Tiesa] No it's not. Transwomen are women, sir. 250 00:12:35,570 --> 00:12:39,830 That sign is bullshit. - I've been doing this 25 years, 251 00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:42,170 I've never had a problem with anybody, 252 00:12:42,170 --> 00:12:44,780 whether they're gay, transsexual, anything. 253 00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:48,143 - Now how, you're saying councilman, he, 254 00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:51,080 this individual was saying, I'm a woman. 255 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,890 - Right. - And you said, "You're not a woman." How- - Okay. 256 00:12:53,890 --> 00:12:55,250 - How do you know that that person's not a woman? 257 00:12:55,250 --> 00:13:01,730 - How do I know? - Yeah. - Well, uh, common sense. 258 00:13:01,730 --> 00:13:03,827 - [Tiesa] Trans women are women! 259 00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:06,200 - Doesn't, doesn't the science say 260 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:11,180 that if someone identifies as a woman then they are. 261 00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:15,080 - No, no. Now that's completely bogus. 262 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,970 I don't care, if you think you're a sheep dog 263 00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:22,400 and you come into my store, it don't matter to me. 264 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,290 Just don't come in and try to shove 265 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:27,530 that shit down my throat. - If it makes someone feel better, 266 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:28,700 what about their, their feelings? 267 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:31,609 I mean- - I don't give shit about their feelings, I'm old. 268 00:13:31,609 --> 00:13:33,530 - What about the Star Wars universe? 269 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:37,993 Jar Jar Binks, pansexual do you think? Transgender? 270 00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:43,010 - Uh, why would I, why would I even care? 271 00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:44,260 - It's if it's his truth. 272 00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:47,390 - Well, it ain't true. - You're not a scientist. 273 00:13:47,390 --> 00:13:49,040 You're not a gender studies major or are you? 274 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,280 - No. - No, okay. How do you know that you're a man? 275 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,570 - How do I know that I'm a man? 276 00:13:53,570 --> 00:13:57,890 I guess, because I got a dick. - Huh? (upbeat music) 277 00:13:57,890 --> 00:13:59,963 Well, I guess Don isn't overthinking it. 278 00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:03,000 He admits he's not a gender studies major 279 00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:06,203 or at the very least a doctor. 280 00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:09,348 Maybe I should go talk to one. 281 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:14,348 (gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming) 282 00:14:16,261 --> 00:14:19,094 (traffic humming) 283 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,550 - My name is Michelle Forcier, 284 00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:24,590 um, and I have a medical degree 285 00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:26,900 from University of Connecticut Residency, 286 00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:30,230 University of Utah Pediatrics. And I've worked for a number 287 00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:33,290 of different Planned Parenthoods for 20 years. 288 00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:35,480 I do advanced contraception and abortion 289 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,980 as well as gender hormones, 290 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:38,810 and sort of looking at the whole sort 291 00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:42,770 of schema of gender, sex, and, and reproductive justice. 292 00:14:42,770 --> 00:14:44,030 - So you've done a lot of work in this field. 293 00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:46,940 Could you just start by telling us- - Sure. 294 00:14:46,940 --> 00:14:51,940 - At what age can a child first begin to transition 295 00:14:53,060 --> 00:14:55,370 into another gender or identify themselves 296 00:14:55,370 --> 00:14:58,190 as a gender different from how they were born? 297 00:14:58,190 --> 00:15:00,650 - Yeah. Well, I mean, there's, there's research 298 00:15:00,650 --> 00:15:04,220 and data that show that babies and infants 299 00:15:04,220 --> 00:15:06,170 understand differences in gender. 300 00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:11,170 Some children figure out their gender really early, 301 00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:13,160 and the reason why we are say, 302 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,960 oh, that's, it's interesting or important 303 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,750 is 'cause they're figuring out their gender identity 304 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,340 is not necessarily congruent 305 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:21,161 with their sexes signed at birth. 306 00:15:21,161 --> 00:15:23,630 - When the, when the doctor sees the penis and says, 307 00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:26,480 this is a male, has the sex of male, 308 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,840 that's an arbitrary distinction. 309 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,250 - Telling that family based on that little penis 310 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:36,470 that your child is absolutely 311 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:39,170 a hundred percent male identified 312 00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:42,020 no matter what else occurs in their life, 313 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:45,230 that's not correct. - So what is gender affirmation care? 314 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:46,640 You're a big proponent of, 315 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,910 if we walk through a child is sitting down with you 316 00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:52,460 is questioning- - Yeah. - Their gender. 317 00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:54,440 What's the gender affirmation process? 318 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,110 - Affirmation means that as a pediatrician, 319 00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:59,270 as someone who says my job 320 00:15:59,270 --> 00:16:02,570 is to provide the best medical care for you 321 00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:05,090 is I need to listen really carefully. 322 00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,800 And how I put it in words for kids 323 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,730 so that they can understand it is tell me your story. 324 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:12,620 Where have you been in terms of your gender 325 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:15,920 and your gender identity? Where are you right now? 326 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,510 And more excitingly, 327 00:16:17,510 --> 00:16:20,496 where would you like to be in the future? 328 00:16:20,496 --> 00:16:22,246 - Have you ever met a four-year-old 329 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,750 who believes in Santa Claus? - Mm-hmm. 330 00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:28,070 - So this is someone who believes 331 00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:31,700 that a fat man is traveling through the sky 332 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,250 on a flying reindeer at lightning speed 333 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:37,190 coming down his chimney with presents. - Yeah. 334 00:16:37,190 --> 00:16:38,360 - Would you say that this is someone 335 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,090 who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality? 336 00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:43,010 - They have an appropriate four-year-old handle 337 00:16:43,010 --> 00:16:43,843 on the reality- - Sure, agreed. 338 00:16:43,843 --> 00:16:46,310 - That's very real for them. - Agreed, agreed. 339 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:47,790 But Santa Claus is real for them but- 340 00:16:47,790 --> 00:16:49,728 - Yeah. - Santa Claus is not actually real. 341 00:16:49,728 --> 00:16:51,050 - Yeah, well and, but Santa Claus 342 00:16:51,050 --> 00:16:53,510 does deliver their Christmas presents. 343 00:16:53,510 --> 00:16:55,820 - Well, yeah, but he is not real though. 344 00:16:55,820 --> 00:16:57,177 - To that child they are. 345 00:16:58,066 --> 00:16:59,810 - When I see a child who, you know, 346 00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:01,393 believes in Santa Claus and then let's say, 347 00:17:01,393 --> 00:17:05,150 this is a boy and he says, I'm a girl. - Mm-hmm. 348 00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:06,740 - This is someone who can't distinguish 349 00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:07,880 between fantasy and reality, 350 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,880 so how could you take that as a reality? 351 00:17:13,340 --> 00:17:16,700 - I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent, 352 00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,200 I would say how wonderful 353 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,369 my four-year-old and their imagination is. 354 00:17:20,369 --> 00:17:25,122 (gentle music) (girl laughing) 355 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,453 - Aren't kids famous for their active imaginations? 356 00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:34,571 Should we really let our children define reality? 357 00:17:34,571 --> 00:17:39,890 (traffic humming) If I say that I, I feel a certain way 358 00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:42,170 then obviously you can't tell me I don't feel that way. 359 00:17:42,170 --> 00:17:44,210 - Yeah. - But just because I feel that way 360 00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:46,340 does that mean that it's true? 361 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:47,723 - I mean, if it's your reality okay. 362 00:17:47,723 --> 00:17:48,556 - Yeah, it's yours reality. 363 00:17:48,556 --> 00:17:50,430 - It's truly like none of my business who you are. 364 00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:53,540 - So we all have our own- - Identity. - Realities. 365 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:55,190 What if I said, I want you to say 366 00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:58,070 that it's true that I'm a woman, would you say that? 367 00:17:58,070 --> 00:18:00,080 - That you're a woman? - I would also say that. 368 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,280 - If you want. - Yeah. 369 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,670 - I honestly don't care like whatever makes you happy. 370 00:18:04,670 --> 00:18:07,790 - [Woman] What's true to you can be, can be false to me. 371 00:18:07,790 --> 00:18:09,862 So like it, it's the, it's like- 372 00:18:09,862 --> 00:18:11,000 - What if I said that it's true, 373 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,130 my truth is that you don't exist, 374 00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:15,650 does that mean you, you no longer exist? 375 00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:17,480 - [Woman] I mean, if that's your truth sure. 376 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,793 I don't, because it's like- - But you do. 377 00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:21,590 - [Woman] Well, I mean, if you're saying 378 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:23,600 that I do then I do. 379 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,310 - Well, but even if I said that you don't you still do 380 00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:27,083 'cause we're, we're having this conversation. 381 00:18:27,083 --> 00:18:30,680 - [Woman] I mean, are we? - I think so, I mean, I thought. 382 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,450 - [Woman] That's what you think. (brooding music) 383 00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:34,520 - [Matt] Well, I should have known 384 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,920 it would be hard to define reality in Hollywood. 385 00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:39,320 I should probably look to the place 386 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,753 where truth is the foremost pursuit, 387 00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:47,958 the American university. (slow tempo gentle music) 388 00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:55,610 - What we do in, in gender studies 389 00:18:55,610 --> 00:18:57,290 is not just reduced gender 390 00:18:57,290 --> 00:18:59,570 to what psychologists might call individual differences, 391 00:18:59,570 --> 00:19:01,187 but rather thinking about gender. 392 00:19:01,187 --> 00:19:03,800 And that's not women and man, 393 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,280 but gender as a, as a social form, 394 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,710 something that kind of infuses itself 395 00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:12,860 into virtually all aspects of social life. 396 00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:14,510 - Let's talk about that then. 397 00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:17,270 Uh, I guess we should start with 398 00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:20,833 we've got gender and sex, right? - [Patrick] Yeah. 399 00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:23,570 - What, what's the difference between the two? 400 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:24,440 Is there a difference? 401 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,450 - I saw that in your questions and I thought, my goodness, 402 00:19:26,450 --> 00:19:28,340 this is what we spend an entire semester 403 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:29,300 kind of thinking through. 404 00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:34,300 But what we tend to think about in the social sciences today 405 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,200 is that sex refers to a set of biological characteristics, 406 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,790 and gender is a social construct or category. 407 00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:46,910 What I think is often misleading about that characteristic, 408 00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:49,670 then is allowed to be sort of messy and complicated. 409 00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:51,770 But in that framing, when you split them up 410 00:19:51,770 --> 00:19:54,830 into these holy discrete constructs studies scholars, and, 411 00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:56,420 and really more specifically people 412 00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:57,530 who study gender and sex, 413 00:19:57,530 --> 00:19:59,029 we're not talking about sexuality right now. 414 00:19:59,029 --> 00:20:01,420 I teach in the kind of, academic universe that I travel in 415 00:20:01,420 --> 00:20:05,180 is that we see how deeply gendered ideas, 416 00:20:05,180 --> 00:20:07,550 cultural ideas about masculinity and femininity, 417 00:20:07,550 --> 00:20:09,140 maleness and femaleness, 418 00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:11,813 both in humans and in lots of other animals. 419 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,850 - So are gender and sex two different things or? 420 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:20,210 - Well, I think that they, they both are, and they aren't. 421 00:20:20,210 --> 00:20:22,640 I'd be, I'm comfortable saying that gender and sex 422 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,230 are, are two different constructs, 423 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:26,690 but they're deeply intertwined with each other. 424 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:28,790 - We're talking about gender and, and sex, 425 00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:30,200 and there's a lot of controversies there. 426 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,630 If we're talking about a trans woman, 427 00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:35,570 has all of the male physical characteristics, 428 00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:38,540 so would that not be a male then? 429 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:42,758 Couldn't, couldn't we plainly say this person is a male? 430 00:20:42,758 --> 00:20:44,690 - Well, well I guess it's, it's like, 431 00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:47,060 why are you asking the question? 432 00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,920 I think I, I, I wanna understand 433 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,553 sort of why that's so important. So if someone tells you- 434 00:20:51,553 --> 00:20:56,323 - Just to sort of understand reality, you know. 435 00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:59,840 - Well, I mean, I think when someone tells you who they are, 436 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:00,830 you should believe them. 437 00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:04,820 So if a person says that they're a woman or they're a man, 438 00:21:04,820 --> 00:21:07,133 then that's them telling you their gender is. 439 00:21:07,133 --> 00:21:08,930 I'm, I'm not so sure why, 440 00:21:08,930 --> 00:21:13,930 what social in interactions would have to do with, 441 00:21:14,660 --> 00:21:16,430 with maleness or femaleness that would be- 442 00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:18,440 - Well, I, I'm not even talking about social context. 443 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,210 I'm just, I'm just trying to start 444 00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:21,910 by getting to the truth, you know? 445 00:21:24,170 --> 00:21:25,550 - Yeah, I mean, I'm really uncomfortable 446 00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:28,190 with that language of like getting to the truth. 447 00:21:28,190 --> 00:21:30,230 Again in social life- - Why, why is that, 448 00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:31,340 why is that uncomfortable? 449 00:21:31,340 --> 00:21:32,960 - Because that, it sounds actually 450 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,310 deeply transphobic to me, and if- 451 00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:37,100 - And truth- - And if you keep probing, 452 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,560 we're gonna stop the interview. I- - If I probe 453 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,500 about what the truth is? - You keep invoking the word truth, 454 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,510 which is condescending and rude. 455 00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:45,343 I'm saying to you- - How is, 456 00:21:45,343 --> 00:21:47,587 how is the word truth condescending and rude? 457 00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:51,020 - Why don't you tell me what your truth is? 458 00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:53,900 And you're walking on 30 seconds more of thin ice 459 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:54,803 before I get up. 460 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:57,193 - What my truth is? 461 00:21:57,193 --> 00:21:58,790 Well, I don't think I really have a truth. 462 00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:03,380 I think that there's just the truth, like the reality. 463 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:05,960 And so we should begin by trying to figure out 464 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,193 what the reality is. 465 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:09,433 - Uh-huh. 466 00:22:09,433 --> 00:22:13,820 And why are you concerned with when someone else tells you 467 00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:17,900 that they're a man or even if they use the word male, 468 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:20,200 why are you concerned with not believing them? 469 00:22:21,290 --> 00:22:22,550 - Well, you keep bringing it back to, you know, 470 00:22:22,550 --> 00:22:25,130 how do you respond in a social situation, but- 471 00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:26,810 - That's what I do, I'm a social scientist. 472 00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:28,400 - Well, right, but we're at a university. 473 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,920 This is a place of understanding truth, isn't it or? 474 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,103 - Absolutely we are, we pursue the true truth. 475 00:22:33,103 --> 00:22:35,510 And I'm a social scientist and that's what I do. 476 00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:37,103 - Well, you just said the truth is transphobic. 477 00:22:37,103 --> 00:22:39,230 - That, that you would say that you're, 478 00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:40,430 if you're saying the truth is 479 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:44,030 that I get to say you are not a man, show me your genitalia, 480 00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:44,863 that's transphobic. 481 00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:45,970 - No, I don't wanna see anybody's genitalia. 482 00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:48,950 I, I, I just mean someone can make a statement 483 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:51,260 about themselves that could be untrue. 484 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:53,600 Like, for example, if I, 485 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,500 if I were to say that I'm a black man, 486 00:22:57,290 --> 00:23:01,853 could you, would you accept that or would you be skeptical? 487 00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:07,103 - Are you Black? Are you African American? Are you biracial? 488 00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:11,420 - I don't think so. - Well you don't look that, 489 00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:12,710 and I don't think that's a, 490 00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:14,720 it doesn't sound like that's a genuine statement 491 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:15,743 of who you are. 492 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:19,393 - Okay, so that's my point. 493 00:23:19,393 --> 00:23:23,390 I, I could make a statement about who I am that's incorrect. 494 00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:24,920 - Of course, I think it's well established 495 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,093 that human beings can lie yes. - Or not even lie. 496 00:23:28,093 --> 00:23:29,480 I mean, I could just be mistaken. 497 00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:34,123 - Yeah. I'm not sure where you're going. 498 00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:36,140 - I guess this all comes back, 499 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:38,440 just it all comes down to really one question, 500 00:23:39,620 --> 00:23:44,620 especially women, gender, and sexuality studies. 501 00:23:44,810 --> 00:23:48,893 So what, so what, what is a woman? 502 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,510 - Why do you ask that question? 503 00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:59,190 - I just really like to know. 504 00:24:00,170 --> 00:24:02,533 - What do you think the answer to that question is? 505 00:24:04,910 --> 00:24:06,410 - Well, I'm, I'm asking, 506 00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:08,270 that's why I came to a college professor 507 00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:11,663 who, who's, this is your, this is what you do. 508 00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:15,463 - What other kinds of answers have you gotten? 509 00:24:20,150 --> 00:24:21,050 - A lot of like this, 510 00:24:21,050 --> 00:24:22,220 where you're, where you're not answering it, 511 00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:23,360 I've gotten a lot of that so. 512 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:24,620 - I think it's interesting that you, 513 00:24:24,620 --> 00:24:25,670 that you say that some of the people 514 00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:29,210 you've, you've interviewed have been reluctant to answer it. 515 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:30,710 And I think that has a lot to do with the way, 516 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:32,600 the questions that preceded it and the, 517 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,150 the way that you've conducted yourself in the interview. 518 00:24:35,150 --> 00:24:36,740 - How have I conducted myself? 519 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:38,090 - How do you think you've conducted yourself? 520 00:24:38,090 --> 00:24:39,903 - You, (laughs) 521 00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:44,816 you just really don't wanna answer the questions do you? 522 00:24:44,816 --> 00:24:46,730 - I, I came today very willing 523 00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:49,040 and, and enthusiastic about answering questions 524 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,690 about women's and gender sexuality studies, 525 00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:51,828 which is what I do. - You wanted, 526 00:24:51,828 --> 00:24:53,840 you wanted to answer questions about women's studies, 527 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,990 and so shouldn't the, the first answer 528 00:24:56,990 --> 00:24:58,760 you should be able to provide is what exactly as a woman? 529 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,530 - Well, it's, for me it's, 530 00:25:00,530 --> 00:25:01,817 it's actually a really simple answer, 531 00:25:01,817 --> 00:25:04,010 and that's a person who identifies as a woman. 532 00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:06,680 - But what are they identifying as? - As a woman. 533 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,773 - [Matt] So what is that? - As a woman. 534 00:25:10,858 --> 00:25:13,058 - Do you know what a circular definition is? 535 00:25:14,050 --> 00:25:14,883 - I do. 536 00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:19,190 - It's sort of like what you're doing right now, 537 00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:20,993 where a woman is, is a woman. 538 00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:23,210 - Well, 'cause you are seeking 539 00:25:23,210 --> 00:25:24,340 what we would call in my field of work, 540 00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:28,070 an essentialist definition of gender. 541 00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:29,570 I think it sounds like you would like me 542 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:33,530 to give you a set of biological or cultural characteristics 543 00:25:33,530 --> 00:25:37,010 that are associated with one gender or the other. 544 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:38,600 - I'm not seeking any type of definition, 545 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,400 I'm just seeking a definition. 546 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,890 - Yeah, and I gave you one. (gentle playful music) 547 00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:45,710 - Well now I can say I've been to college. 548 00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:47,510 Glad I didn't pay for it. 549 00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:50,510 Is there anyone willing to give me a straight answer? 550 00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:51,800 Ideally somebody with a bunch 551 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,873 of medical degrees on the wall. 552 00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:57,140 Dr. Grossman, thanks for talking to us. 553 00:25:57,140 --> 00:25:59,690 You're a psychiatrist medical doctor, 554 00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:02,510 and you've done a lot of work in child psychiatry. 555 00:26:02,510 --> 00:26:07,310 What is transgenderism from a psychiatric standpoint? 556 00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:08,780 - The best way to approach it 557 00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:13,780 is by speaking about gender dysphoria, 558 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:19,370 which is an intense loathing and discomfort 559 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:25,310 with one's biological sex. They exist anywhere between 560 00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:30,310 one in 30,000 people and one in 110,000. 561 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:36,170 It's important to distinguish those people 562 00:26:36,170 --> 00:26:40,400 from what's happening much more recently, 563 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,400 which is kids that never had any discomfort or dysphoria 564 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,490 as it's now called with their biological sex. 565 00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:54,490 And then quite suddenly as preteens or as, as adolescents, 566 00:26:55,490 --> 00:27:00,080 they come out and they announce that they are gender fluid 567 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,410 or they, they start to question their sex. 568 00:27:03,410 --> 00:27:07,250 So first let's define the terms sex and gender. 569 00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:15,170 - Yes, please. - Sex is biology. Sex is unchanging. 570 00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:20,170 It's based on chromosomes 99.999% of the cells in the body 571 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,270 are marked either male or female. 572 00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:29,630 Gender on the other hand is a perception. 573 00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:32,240 It's a feeling, it's a way of identifying, 574 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,610 it's a, it's an experience. Okay, that's, that's subjective. 575 00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:39,200 - It sounds like what you're saying 576 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,403 is that if a man is male, 577 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:49,340 but thinks of himself as a woman, he's not actually a woman. 578 00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:50,303 - That's correct. 579 00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:54,560 - Male gametes, that's what makes me male. 580 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320 - No, your, your sperm don't make you male. 581 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,380 - Then what does. - It's a constellation. 582 00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:03,920 - In reality, in truth, okay. 583 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,540 - Whose truth are we talking about? 584 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:07,160 - The same truth that says we're sitting in this room 585 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,100 right now you and I. - No, you're not listening. 586 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:11,097 - If I, if I see a chicken lying eggs 587 00:28:11,097 --> 00:28:13,340 and I say that's a female chicken laying eggs, 588 00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:14,780 did I assign female 589 00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:16,550 or am I just observing a physical reality 590 00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:17,750 that's happening in the world? 591 00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:19,430 - Does a chicken have gender identity? 592 00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:21,643 Does a chicken cry? - Well, a- - Does a chicken 593 00:28:21,643 --> 00:28:23,988 commit suicide? Let's frame it- - What does that 594 00:28:23,988 --> 00:28:26,390 have to do with? - Because you're talking, you're trying to- 595 00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:28,244 - Chicken has sex like any, like any biological organism. 596 00:28:28,244 --> 00:28:30,503 - A chicken has an assigned gender, 597 00:28:30,503 --> 00:28:32,900 but a chicken doesn't have a gender identity. 598 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,030 - So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs? 599 00:28:35,030 --> 00:28:36,530 That's a, that's- - We assume they're female 600 00:28:36,530 --> 00:28:37,820 if they lay eggs. 601 00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:42,820 - Now I was told that really everyone agrees 602 00:28:42,980 --> 00:28:46,280 with the current approach to gender and transitioning kids 603 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:47,113 and all of that. 604 00:28:47,113 --> 00:28:50,780 And if you don't agree that you're a dinosaur and a bigot. 605 00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:53,570 So are you a bigoted dinosaur? 606 00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:56,690 - I'm not bigoted, and I'm not a dinosaur. 607 00:28:56,690 --> 00:29:01,690 I am rooted in reality and in science. 608 00:29:01,910 --> 00:29:05,342 - Who's reality? - There's one reality. 609 00:29:05,342 --> 00:29:08,300 - [Announcer] Coming up girls 100 meter final. 610 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,130 - The first race that I competed 611 00:29:10,130 --> 00:29:14,033 against a transgender athlete was during my freshman year. 612 00:29:14,033 --> 00:29:19,430 (gun bangs) (group chattering) And once the gun went off, 613 00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:22,640 the two transgender athletes took off flying 614 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,650 and left all of us girls in the dust. 615 00:29:24,650 --> 00:29:26,150 Throughout all four years of high school 616 00:29:26,150 --> 00:29:28,460 I was forced to compete against biological males. 617 00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:31,160 I only competed against them in the sprinting events, 618 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,780 but I raced against these athletes 619 00:29:32,780 --> 00:29:34,670 over a dozen times throughout the years, 620 00:29:34,670 --> 00:29:36,440 and every single time I lost. 621 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,993 - Did, did they inch you out of metals 622 00:29:38,993 --> 00:29:40,610 that you would've won otherwise 623 00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:41,480 or trophies you would've had? 624 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,630 - They beat me out by 20 meters out of metals 625 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:46,130 and qualifying spots. 626 00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:48,290 I missed out on qualifying for New England. 627 00:29:48,290 --> 00:29:50,570 I had, and I had to go in the long jump 628 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:52,520 and the four by 200 meter relay, 629 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,770 so I was forced on the sidelines in my own event, 630 00:29:54,770 --> 00:29:57,710 and if they were not there, I would've been able to qualify. 631 00:29:57,710 --> 00:30:00,740 So I missed out on so much throughout my high school career. 632 00:30:00,740 --> 00:30:04,010 - Did they win all the events or almost all the events? 633 00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:04,940 - Between the two of them 634 00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:07,040 they won every single event they competed in. 635 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,060 - How does that, how does that feel? 636 00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:11,630 - It is so frustrating and heartbreaking 637 00:30:11,630 --> 00:30:14,330 because we elite female athletes train so hard 638 00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:16,940 to shave just fractions of a second off of our time 639 00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:18,230 and going into races 640 00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:20,300 knowing that we will never be able to win. 641 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:24,200 - It feels like all that work gone to waste? - It does. 642 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,630 After so many losses it just gets to the point 643 00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:28,370 of why am I even doing this? 644 00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:32,480 Why am I keep, training so hard and sacrificing so much 645 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,845 just to place third and beyond. (traffic humming) 646 00:30:37,819 --> 00:30:38,930 (birds chirping) 647 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:43,108 - Case in Connecticut, there were two male track runners, 648 00:30:43,108 --> 00:30:45,103 trans- - They were trans girls. - Right. 649 00:30:45,103 --> 00:30:47,000 And who, who decided that they 650 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,620 were gonna race against the girls. 651 00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:51,620 And you look at the, those individuals, 652 00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:54,710 you look at their times against the men, against the boys, 653 00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:56,840 so they were kind of middle of the pack. 654 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,040 And then they're racing the girls 655 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,560 and they're, you know, first and second place. 656 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,060 Is that indicative of some kind of unfair advantage 657 00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,600 that those individuals might have against the girls? 658 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,420 - No, it's not indicative of an unfair advantage. 659 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:13,280 And I think part of the proof of this 660 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,980 is that more transgender girls 661 00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:19,190 are coming out in high school and still playing sports, 662 00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:20,660 and they're not winning. 663 00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:23,420 You know, the Connecticut case is the exception. 664 00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:24,920 It got a lot of attention 665 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,340 because those two trans girls performed well, 666 00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:29,360 but there are many, many- 667 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,040 - Yeah. - More trans girls competing 668 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,159 in sports and they don't excel because- 669 00:31:33,159 --> 00:31:33,992 - Yeah, we could- - 'Cause at the end 670 00:31:33,992 --> 00:31:36,620 of the day, whether or not you win a game 671 00:31:36,620 --> 00:31:39,170 is not just, is about how hard you work in your practice, 672 00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:40,850 and most of us aren't gonna win, 673 00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:42,804 and that goes for transgender athletes too. 674 00:31:42,804 --> 00:31:47,476 (upbeat country music) ♪ Let's go girls. ♪ 675 00:31:50,395 --> 00:31:53,145 (group cheering) 676 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,380 The norm is that transgender youth 677 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:59,540 don't win that much in sports games. 678 00:31:59,540 --> 00:32:01,520 - [Announcer] Alana McLaughlin was very appreciative 679 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,068 for Provost to take this fight. 680 00:32:03,068 --> 00:32:04,610 I don't know how appreciative it's now, 681 00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:06,470 but she got a couple punches in. 682 00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:09,290 - [Rodrigo] It is the very much the exception 683 00:32:09,290 --> 00:32:11,840 when a transgender young person does win. 684 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,980 - And the tap! - The tap. 685 00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:15,290 - [Rodrigo] And it's because there's not really 686 00:32:15,290 --> 00:32:17,360 an advantage to being trans. 687 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,153 Only a few people are going to lead the pack. 688 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,440 - There are some slight differences, 689 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,320 but does it translate to a competitive advantage? 690 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,544 I think you'd be very hard pressed to prove that. 691 00:32:29,544 --> 00:32:32,461 (group chattering) 692 00:32:39,170 --> 00:32:41,240 - If there was a big advantage 693 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,940 to being transgender in sports, 694 00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:47,270 then we would see transgender women totally dominating. 695 00:32:47,270 --> 00:32:48,740 - [Announcer] And over the last half of the pool, 696 00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:51,023 nobody will touch Lia Thomas. 697 00:32:54,326 --> 00:32:56,930 ♪ Man I feel like a woman ♪ 698 00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:58,700 - [Reporter] Transgender swimmer, Lia Thomas 699 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:00,710 breaking barriers and records, 700 00:33:00,710 --> 00:33:02,480 but in a new article Sports Illustrated 701 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,830 calls the college senior 702 00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:06,890 the most controversial athlete in America. 703 00:33:06,890 --> 00:33:09,680 - Lia obviously helps us do better, right? 704 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,340 Lia swimming really fast. Lia's performance helps 705 00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:15,110 the University of Pennsylvania swim team. 706 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:17,210 The feeling of winning doesn't feel as good anymore 707 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:18,620 'cause it feels tainted. 708 00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:21,080 There was a lot of things you couldn't talk about 709 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,500 that were very concerning. Like a locker room situation 710 00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,570 if you even brought up concerns about it, 711 00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:28,100 you were transphobic. 712 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:30,410 If you even bring up the fact that Lia's swimming 713 00:33:30,410 --> 00:33:33,230 might not be fair, you were immediately shut down 714 00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:36,110 being called a hateful person or transphobic. 715 00:33:36,110 --> 00:33:38,600 - But there's never any conversation? 716 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,810 The coaches don't sit everyone down and acknowledge 717 00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:43,100 what everyone's really upset about. 718 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:45,590 - So Penn actually brought in people high up 719 00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:47,180 in the athletic department to talk to us. 720 00:33:47,180 --> 00:33:49,037 They brought in someone from like the LGBTQ center. 721 00:33:49,037 --> 00:33:52,550 They brought in someone from the psychological services. 722 00:33:52,550 --> 00:33:55,140 - So you're upset about what's happening and so- 723 00:33:55,140 --> 00:33:57,793 - Yeah. - You need psychological help. - Yeah. 724 00:33:57,793 --> 00:33:58,917 And they told us in this meeting, they said, 725 00:33:58,917 --> 00:34:01,070 "Look, we understand there's an array of emotions, 726 00:34:01,070 --> 00:34:03,327 but Lia's swimming is a non-negotiable." 727 00:34:03,327 --> 00:34:06,500 "However we can help you make that okay 728 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:07,540 that's what we're here for." 729 00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:09,980 - So you're anonymous for this interview. 730 00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:12,770 Why did you decide that you can't have your face out there 731 00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:13,610 saying these things? 732 00:34:13,610 --> 00:34:16,370 - They've made it pretty clear that if you speak up about it 733 00:34:16,370 --> 00:34:18,590 and you say anything negative that like your life 734 00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:19,610 will be over in some way. 735 00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:22,220 Like you'll be blasted all over the internet as a transphob 736 00:34:22,220 --> 00:34:24,860 if you come out and then you'll never be able to get a job. 737 00:34:24,860 --> 00:34:26,870 Like anyone who wants to hire you will look you up 738 00:34:26,870 --> 00:34:28,878 and see you're transphobic and your life will be over. 739 00:34:28,878 --> 00:34:31,940 (siren wailing) (traffic humming) 740 00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:35,810 - Let's say that I identified as a woman tomorrow 741 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:39,290 and I wanted to go into the same locker room where you are. 742 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:40,790 Should I be allowed to do that 743 00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:44,030 as long as I identify that way? - I don't know. 744 00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:46,640 I just feel that other women 745 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,750 would be uncomfortable by you walking in there. 746 00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:54,000 (man speaking in foreign language) 747 00:34:57,331 --> 00:34:59,964 - No. (man speaking in foreign language) 748 00:34:59,964 --> 00:35:01,760 (woman speaking in foreign language) 749 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,310 - Controversy at a health club in Koreatown 750 00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:06,703 over the issue of gender. - That's right. 751 00:35:06,703 --> 00:35:10,070 Video of spa goers complaining was posted on social media. 752 00:35:10,070 --> 00:35:11,513 - [Woman] I just wanna be clear with you. 753 00:35:11,513 --> 00:35:14,570 It's okay, it's okay for a man 754 00:35:14,570 --> 00:35:16,760 to go into the women's section, 755 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,670 show his penis around the other women, 756 00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:24,950 young little girls underage, your spa, Wi Spa condone that, 757 00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:25,910 is that what you're saying? 758 00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:28,065 - [Man] Like I just said. - [Woman] Like I asked. 759 00:35:28,065 --> 00:35:28,898 - [Man] Like I mentioned- 760 00:35:28,898 --> 00:35:30,260 - [Woman] So he, he could stay there? 761 00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:32,638 - [Man] You cannot just come- - [Woman] He could stay there? 762 00:35:32,638 --> 00:35:33,640 - [Man] Sexual orientation. 763 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,050 - [Woman] What sexual orientation? I see a dick. 764 00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:37,730 - [Reporter] Police identified the person involved 765 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:40,820 as 52-year-old Darren Merager of Riverside county. 766 00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:44,330 Merager who has been a registered sex offender since 2006 767 00:35:44,330 --> 00:35:47,270 now faces five felony counts of indecent exposure. 768 00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:49,794 - Hello, I'm Congressman Mark Takano. 769 00:35:49,794 --> 00:35:51,856 Trans month of visibility is a time 770 00:35:51,856 --> 00:35:55,670 to recognize the strength, diversity, and resiliency 771 00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:57,200 of the transgender community. 772 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,763 Together we can make our country and our world 773 00:35:59,763 --> 00:36:02,060 a more accepting place by speaking out 774 00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:04,010 against transphobia at the source, 775 00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:05,720 and supporting the trans community 776 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,603 by getting the Equality Act signed into law. 777 00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:11,210 - Congressman, thank you for, for being here. 778 00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:14,510 Thanks for joining us. You are the first member of Congress 779 00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:16,550 who's a member of the LGBT community 780 00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:18,830 and also a person of Asian descent. 781 00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:22,010 You're also a big proponent of the Equality Act. 782 00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:23,720 - Yes. - What is the Equality Act? 783 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,400 If you were to just summarize it very briefly. 784 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,630 I know it does a lot. 785 00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:30,920 - The most simplest way to talk about the Equality Act 786 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,210 is that it simply amends the 1964 Civil Rights Act 787 00:36:35,210 --> 00:36:38,510 to include sexual orientation and gender identity. 788 00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:43,070 So public accommodations is one area. 789 00:36:43,070 --> 00:36:47,300 - What's a way that someone whose LGBT is, 790 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:50,990 could be discriminated in public accommodations currently? 791 00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:54,470 - Currently, you know, public accommodations 792 00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:59,470 is the whole area of, you know, hotels and motels, and. 793 00:36:59,738 --> 00:37:02,930 - Bathrooms, and sports teams is that? 794 00:37:02,930 --> 00:37:04,100 - I'd say bathrooms- - Yeah. 795 00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:06,650 - Sports teams, athletic events. 796 00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:09,860 - Let's get into more specific policy issues. 797 00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:11,720 There, there are some women who say, and I've, 798 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,683 I've talked to a few who say this. They say, "Hey, you know, 799 00:37:14,683 --> 00:37:18,927 I'd like some privacy in the bathroom." 800 00:37:18,927 --> 00:37:20,870 "I'd prefer not to encounter, 801 00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:22,697 you know, naked penises, frankly." 802 00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:29,640 They say even that the penis is a telltale sign 803 00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:33,416 that someone is a male. I mean, there, there are people 804 00:37:33,416 --> 00:37:35,647 who kind of really bought into the, 805 00:37:35,647 --> 00:37:39,260 to the rumor that only men have penises. 806 00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:42,920 What, how do we account for that? 807 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,573 How do you respond to that? 808 00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:48,733 - Um. 809 00:37:51,140 --> 00:37:53,333 Well, um, 810 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,440 well, what I would say is that most transgender people 811 00:38:05,090 --> 00:38:09,030 that I know, um, and it's a very I think 812 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,730 distinct minority of people, 813 00:38:13,730 --> 00:38:16,910 it's a very, it's a, it is a, it is a very 814 00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:20,993 I think we're talking not about a lot of people. 815 00:38:22,190 --> 00:38:27,190 Um, I think a person who wants to use a woman's bathroom 816 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,560 who identifies as transgender 817 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,900 really does think themselves as a female. 818 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,195 So how we go about trying to, 819 00:38:36,195 --> 00:38:41,195 um, you know, respect their basic right to live. 820 00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:49,523 I think will be an important part of this law and um- 821 00:38:50,576 --> 00:38:51,520 - With a law- - Bathrooms. 822 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,353 Well, wait a minute, bath, bathrooms are, 823 00:38:54,065 --> 00:38:55,940 bathrooms are, you know, 824 00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:57,940 where you want to take this conversation 825 00:38:58,850 --> 00:39:03,390 instead of the basic right to just life 826 00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:07,160 is something that I'm kind of mystified 827 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,170 that you're kind of not focusing on first. 828 00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:12,593 We're going straight to the controversy over bathrooms. 829 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:16,724 Um, so you know what I think this interview is over. 830 00:39:16,724 --> 00:39:18,156 - [Woman] Yeah, I think we're gonna wrap it there. 831 00:39:18,156 --> 00:39:18,989 - I think, I think this interview is over. 832 00:39:18,989 --> 00:39:20,270 - I just said one last question. 833 00:39:20,270 --> 00:39:22,490 - Uh, no, I, I, I, the interview is over. 834 00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:23,480 - We want to know- - Please turn off the cameras. 835 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,837 - What, what is a woman? - Please. 836 00:39:24,837 --> 00:39:26,503 Just turn off the cameras. - [Woman] Excuse me. 837 00:39:26,503 --> 00:39:27,380 So we're gonna end the interview. 838 00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:28,580 If you guys could please pack up 839 00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:29,690 and return the office exactly as- 840 00:39:29,690 --> 00:39:30,972 - I just wanted to know- - As you found it. 841 00:39:30,972 --> 00:39:32,090 - Okay, thank you. - I came all this way 842 00:39:32,090 --> 00:39:35,501 to know what- - Thank you. - They're fair questions. 843 00:39:35,501 --> 00:39:36,334 I just wanted to know what is a woman. 844 00:39:36,334 --> 00:39:37,568 - [Woman] And you're not gonna find out. 845 00:39:37,568 --> 00:39:40,901 (slow tempo jazz music) 846 00:39:49,070 --> 00:39:52,043 - My trip to California isn't providing many answers, 847 00:39:53,330 --> 00:39:55,493 but at least I'm making new friends. 848 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:58,220 You worry about kids walking around out here? 849 00:39:58,220 --> 00:40:00,560 - No, because I raised two daughters. 850 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,900 They're two of the most well-adjusted adults. 851 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:05,090 They grew up around naked people. 852 00:40:05,090 --> 00:40:07,070 And there's been studies that have shown 853 00:40:07,070 --> 00:40:10,160 that children raised around non-sexual nudity 854 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,070 actually have fewer hangups when they're adults. 855 00:40:13,070 --> 00:40:13,903 - People do have hangups. 856 00:40:13,903 --> 00:40:15,440 There's a lot of things hanging right now. 857 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,570 - Yeah. - During this conversation. 858 00:40:17,570 --> 00:40:19,400 Uh, can anyone be any gender they wanna be? 859 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,050 Can a man become a woman if he wants to be? 860 00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:23,240 - I leave the, I mean, what people do 861 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:24,440 that's personal choice. 862 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,380 People can live the life they want to. 863 00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:29,090 I, I'm trying to live the life I want to, an authentic life. 864 00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:31,070 - Yeah. - And I- - I can see that. - That's why I respect 865 00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:33,920 other people's rights to choose what they wanna do. 866 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,300 - Well, why are you asking a gay man 867 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:37,130 as to what it means to be a woman? 868 00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:39,140 You should be asking women what it means to be women, 869 00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:42,030 especially trans women who, what it means to be women. 870 00:40:42,030 --> 00:40:44,060 - Well, I'm asking all kinds of people. 871 00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:46,190 Can anyone have an opinion about it? 872 00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:49,490 - Only people who are women. Gay men don't know nothing 873 00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:51,230 about what it means to be a woman. 874 00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:52,910 - Have you told gay men here in San Francisco 875 00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:54,530 that they're not allowed to talk about this? 876 00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:57,260 - No. But I have, it's not like I come around 877 00:40:57,260 --> 00:41:00,080 and say what a gay man is allowed to be. 878 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,900 - So you're saying, so you're saying if you're not a woman, 879 00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:04,190 then you shouldn't have an opinion. 880 00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:07,700 - Where does a guy get a right to say what a woman is? 881 00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:09,323 Women only know what women are. 882 00:41:10,190 --> 00:41:15,210 - Are you a cat? - No. - Can you tell me what a cat is? 883 00:41:20,660 --> 00:41:22,160 - This is actually a genuine mistake. 884 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:23,710 I am sorry I even came up here. 885 00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:28,140 - Do you wanna tell us what a woman is? 886 00:41:28,140 --> 00:41:31,310 (slow tempo jazz music) 887 00:41:31,310 --> 00:41:34,040 If my friend in the purple hat is correct 888 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,203 and only women can tell me what a woman is, 889 00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:39,950 I guess I need to go where the women are. 890 00:41:40,896 --> 00:41:43,479 (upbeat music) 891 00:41:51,170 --> 00:41:54,613 What, what is a woman? Can you tell me that? 892 00:41:57,354 --> 00:41:59,934 (group laughing) - Uh. - Well, you're at 893 00:41:59,934 --> 00:42:01,660 the women's march, you must to have some idea. 894 00:42:05,850 --> 00:42:08,933 So I see girl's vagina. 895 00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:11,060 Does that mean that they're the only people 896 00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:12,020 who can get pregnant? 897 00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:13,100 - [Brunette Woman] If men could get pregnant too, 898 00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:15,359 I think they want the right to choose. 899 00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:17,025 - Yeah. - But they, but men can get pregnant? 900 00:42:17,025 --> 00:42:18,920 - We're saying someone who is born as a woman, 901 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,230 but identifies as a man, that- - Is that a man? 902 00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:23,570 - [Blonde Woman] Real man. - It's a real man. - Yeah. 903 00:42:24,592 --> 00:42:26,098 - So they, so men can get pregnant. 904 00:42:26,098 --> 00:42:27,387 - [Blonde Woman] Yes. (laughs) 905 00:42:27,387 --> 00:42:29,750 Yes. - If they have the parts to do so. 906 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:31,070 - Is it just women that get birth or is it? 907 00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:33,650 - Or I guess yeah. - So, so men, so men can give birth too? 908 00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:35,540 - Anyone with a vagina. 909 00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:37,460 - Well, that could be a man or a woman. 910 00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:38,335 - [Blonde Woman] Well, I mean, I think 911 00:42:38,335 --> 00:42:40,250 that's the whole point, right? That it's fluid. 912 00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:42,832 The way that we define these things changes a lot. 913 00:42:42,832 --> 00:42:44,300 - [Brunette Woman] What are you doing here? 914 00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:45,167 - I'm asking these questions. 915 00:42:45,167 --> 00:42:46,843 - Okay. - Trying to figure out what a woman is. 916 00:42:46,843 --> 00:42:48,509 That's why I'm here. And this is the women's march, 917 00:42:48,509 --> 00:42:50,090 I figured this is a good place to find out. 918 00:42:50,090 --> 00:42:51,590 I've come all this way to ask that question. 919 00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:52,700 Can anyone tell me what a woman is? 920 00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:55,753 - If you're not here for women we ask you to leave! 921 00:42:55,753 --> 00:42:59,384 - What is that? - [Crowd Member] He's going to harass you. 922 00:42:59,384 --> 00:43:01,233 He's probably gonna harass you. - Am I harassing? 923 00:43:01,233 --> 00:43:04,252 I'm asking a question. - [Group] Our bodies, our choice. 924 00:43:04,252 --> 00:43:06,158 - Who's body? - Our bodies, our choice. 925 00:43:06,158 --> 00:43:07,433 Our bodies, our choice. 926 00:43:07,433 --> 00:43:09,263 - What, what is a woman? - Our bodies- 927 00:43:09,263 --> 00:43:10,894 - Can, can anyone- - Our choice, our bodies. 928 00:43:10,894 --> 00:43:12,500 - Here at the women's march tell me what a woman is? 929 00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:15,800 - [Group] Our bodies, our- - [Man] Wear a mask, wear a mask! 930 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:16,970 - [Matt] How about you tell me what a woman is 931 00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:19,490 and I'll put a mask on? - Wear a mask! - Sir, tell me 932 00:43:19,490 --> 00:43:21,410 what a woman is and I'll put a mask on. 933 00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:28,032 (body thuds) (group chattering) 934 00:43:28,032 --> 00:43:32,532 - [Group] Asshole, asshole, asshole, asshole, asshole. 935 00:43:33,727 --> 00:43:36,197 - [Matt] Please if one person could tell me what a woman is. 936 00:43:36,197 --> 00:43:38,780 (upbeat music) 937 00:43:40,910 --> 00:43:42,950 Do you guys know what a woman is by any chance? 938 00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:45,890 - No idea. (slow tempo jazz music) 939 00:43:45,890 --> 00:43:50,890 - I've been all over America, I still can't find an answer. 940 00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:57,808 Maybe I'm looking too close to home. 941 00:43:57,808 --> 00:44:02,808 (upbeat music) (plane engine humming) 942 00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:07,849 (dramatic music) 943 00:44:10,443 --> 00:44:40,168 (group singing in foreign language) 944 00:44:40,168 --> 00:44:42,290 We came a long way to come and talk to you guys. 945 00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:44,570 Thousands of miles from, from America. 946 00:44:44,570 --> 00:44:47,480 So thank you for inviting us into your tribe first of all. 947 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,690 - I can say it is my pleasure to, to meet you. 948 00:44:50,690 --> 00:44:54,590 And feel most welcome. But you're here to learn with me. 949 00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:57,013 I'm here to learn with you too. - Great. 950 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,460 (man singing in foreign language) 951 00:45:01,460 --> 00:45:02,951 What's the right form here? 952 00:45:02,951 --> 00:45:08,003 (man singing in foreign language) - It's just. 953 00:45:08,003 --> 00:45:10,063 - Just with the elbow. - Yeah. 954 00:45:12,076 --> 00:45:13,130 (arrow thuds) 955 00:45:13,130 --> 00:45:14,540 - I mean, they're laughing, so I guess it's not good, 956 00:45:14,540 --> 00:45:16,230 but I thought it was pretty good. 957 00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:18,470 Not good enough to be a man yet in your tribe but. 958 00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:19,303 What does a man do? 959 00:45:19,303 --> 00:45:22,280 What, what are his roles within the tribe? 960 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,280 - The role of a man you need to work for your woman. 961 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,910 Secondly to have children. If you have children 962 00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:34,083 and you don't have something to feed them, 963 00:45:34,083 --> 00:45:37,453 you are not still a man. (goat bleating) 964 00:45:37,453 --> 00:45:38,597 (man speaking in foreign language) 965 00:45:38,597 --> 00:45:40,440 (metal clanging) (group chattering) 966 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,100 (man speaking in foreign language) 967 00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:49,718 (blood squirting) (group chattering) 968 00:45:49,718 --> 00:45:50,907 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 969 00:45:50,907 --> 00:45:55,282 - [Matt] There you go. All right. - Yeah. 970 00:45:55,282 --> 00:45:56,682 - Okay. - That's the blood. 971 00:45:58,934 --> 00:46:02,109 (man speaking in foreign language) (Matt gasps) 972 00:46:02,109 --> 00:46:04,310 (man speaking in foreign language) 973 00:46:04,310 --> 00:46:07,211 - Was the best raw kid I've had in my life. 974 00:46:07,211 --> 00:46:11,090 (tribe member laughs) (group chattering) (stick scraping) 975 00:46:11,090 --> 00:46:13,310 What if a man decides 976 00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:17,182 that he wants to do the roles of a woman? 977 00:46:17,182 --> 00:46:21,867 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 978 00:46:21,867 --> 00:46:23,510 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 979 00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:28,393 - Uh, in Maasai community, it do not exist at all. 980 00:46:28,393 --> 00:46:29,603 - Doesn't exist. 981 00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:32,600 What if a man decides that his, 982 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,203 his gender identity is, is woman? 983 00:46:37,895 --> 00:46:42,895 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 984 00:46:43,449 --> 00:46:47,443 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 985 00:46:47,443 --> 00:46:51,860 - A woman has it own duty and a man has it own duty. 986 00:46:51,860 --> 00:46:54,380 And a lady cannot do the duty of a man 987 00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:56,550 and a man cannot do a duty of a woman. 988 00:46:57,860 --> 00:47:01,493 - Can a man become a woman? 989 00:47:02,422 --> 00:47:04,381 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 990 00:47:04,381 --> 00:47:06,020 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 991 00:47:06,020 --> 00:47:09,923 - No. - No? - [Tribe Member] No. - What about a transgender? 992 00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:12,972 - What? - Transgender? 993 00:47:12,972 --> 00:47:16,673 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 994 00:47:16,673 --> 00:47:17,720 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 995 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,090 - No. - No? - It'll look like to, 996 00:47:20,090 --> 00:47:23,510 if you want to become a lady but your man 997 00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:25,624 you have something wrong- - Something wrong? - In your mind. 998 00:47:25,624 --> 00:47:27,315 - Something wrong in your family. 999 00:47:27,315 --> 00:47:30,020 Something wrong in you. (group chattering) 1000 00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:33,080 - What about if someone was non-binary? 1001 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,230 - Come again? - Non-binary. - Uh-huh. 1002 00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:41,230 - Do you know like non, like someone is, is- 1003 00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:43,490 - You're not a woman, you're not a man. 1004 00:47:43,490 --> 00:47:45,860 - Yeah, someone's like, someone is, is neither. 1005 00:47:45,860 --> 00:47:48,063 They're something else. Is that? 1006 00:47:48,063 --> 00:47:53,063 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 1007 00:47:53,834 --> 00:47:55,480 (man speaking in foreign language) 1008 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,080 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1009 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,050 - He's saying we have never seen things like those. 1010 00:48:00,050 --> 00:48:04,790 For a man he has a penis. For a woman has a vagina. 1011 00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:07,310 So we know this is a lady, this is a man. 1012 00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:09,110 - What if it's a woman with a, 1013 00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:12,839 what if it's a woman with a penis? - What? 1014 00:48:12,839 --> 00:48:16,203 (group chattering) Is that? 1015 00:48:16,203 --> 00:48:19,736 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 1016 00:48:19,736 --> 00:48:22,429 (man laughs) (group chattering) People are laughing. 1017 00:48:22,429 --> 00:48:24,073 Is that, is that a dumb question? 1018 00:48:25,561 --> 00:48:27,800 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1019 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,150 - Uh, they're just laughing 1020 00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:31,580 because they have never hear something like that. 1021 00:48:31,580 --> 00:48:34,620 This they're first time. Yeah. - Never heard it before? 1022 00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:38,750 - A woman have a penis and she's a woman. 1023 00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:40,610 - In my country, I can't go day without hearing it. 1024 00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:41,750 We hear it every day. 1025 00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:43,460 So in my country, sometimes you'll hear people say, 1026 00:48:43,460 --> 00:48:45,530 a man will say, I, that I'm a, 1027 00:48:45,530 --> 00:48:47,210 I'm a woman trapped in a man's body. 1028 00:48:47,210 --> 00:48:49,512 And so they say that I have a woman trapped inside me. 1029 00:48:49,512 --> 00:48:52,148 (tribe member laughing) 1030 00:48:52,148 --> 00:48:56,952 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 1031 00:48:56,952 --> 00:49:00,440 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1032 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,030 - They want to know a woman has the breast. - Breast, yeah. 1033 00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:07,193 - Secondly, she has, she has a vagina. 1034 00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:12,413 - Vagina. - And the question is, does this man deliver? 1035 00:49:13,610 --> 00:49:18,680 - Does he deliver babies? (group laughing) 1036 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,801 No, not as far as I know. 1037 00:49:20,801 --> 00:49:22,868 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1038 00:49:22,868 --> 00:49:24,197 (group chattering) 1039 00:49:24,197 --> 00:49:27,380 - The question is, let's say, if you want to sleep a woman, 1040 00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:30,793 definitely you'll do sex. - Sex with a woman, yeah. 1041 00:49:30,793 --> 00:49:33,050 - And you (beep) the vagina is it? 1042 00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:35,237 But for the man where do you (beep)? 1043 00:49:36,791 --> 00:49:37,941 He asked that question. 1044 00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:41,013 - I don't know all the logistics of it. 1045 00:49:41,013 --> 00:49:45,290 (group laughing) Based on what I'm saying, 1046 00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:47,282 would you ever wanna move to America? 1047 00:49:47,282 --> 00:49:49,236 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 1048 00:49:49,236 --> 00:49:50,247 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1049 00:49:50,247 --> 00:49:56,213 (group laughing) - They say no, never. 1050 00:49:57,530 --> 00:50:00,534 - What, what is a woman? If you had to give a, a definition. 1051 00:50:00,534 --> 00:50:04,670 (woman speaking in foreign language) 1052 00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:07,318 - She say a woman delivered. 1053 00:50:07,318 --> 00:50:09,753 - Yeah. - A man cannot. - So it sounds like you, 1054 00:50:09,753 --> 00:50:13,880 you don't spend a lot of time thinking about gender. 1055 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:14,990 You don't, you just kind of live your lives. 1056 00:50:14,990 --> 00:50:16,066 You don't think much about it. 1057 00:50:16,066 --> 00:50:19,099 (tribe member speaking in foreign language) 1058 00:50:19,099 --> 00:50:19,932 (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1059 00:50:19,932 --> 00:50:23,420 - He said "No, because we believe that's a God plan." 1060 00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:25,154 - God's plan. (tribe leader speaking in foreign language) 1061 00:50:25,154 --> 00:50:28,940 - He's saying, "That I'm shocked on what you're telling me." 1062 00:50:28,940 --> 00:50:32,090 - He's shocked. - Yeah. (group singing in foreign language) 1063 00:50:32,090 --> 00:50:35,390 - [Matt] The Maasai people don't think much about gender, 1064 00:50:35,390 --> 00:50:38,330 but they have a firm sense of their identity. 1065 00:50:38,330 --> 00:50:39,950 It's clear that gender ideology 1066 00:50:39,950 --> 00:50:42,680 is a uniquely Western phenomenon. 1067 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,750 So where did all this come from? 1068 00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:49,280 Who came up with it and why? (group chattering) 1069 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,110 - Matt, I, I want, I wanna show this to you. 1070 00:50:51,110 --> 00:50:53,997 You're a parent, right? Okay. 1071 00:50:53,997 --> 00:50:58,997 "It's Perfectly Normal", for 10 years and up. 1072 00:50:59,060 --> 00:51:01,433 Here's just one page I want you to see here. 1073 00:51:07,580 --> 00:51:08,630 - For 10 and up, huh? 1074 00:51:09,620 --> 00:51:12,650 - It's it's unspeakable what these people 1075 00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:15,050 have done to our children. - When, when did that start? 1076 00:51:15,050 --> 00:51:17,210 When was it decided that we need to start teaching kids 1077 00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:19,010 about this stuff at such a young age? 1078 00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:23,000 - So I'll answer that with one word, Kinsey. 1079 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,557 Kinsey was a social reformer. (slide clicking) 1080 00:51:28,557 --> 00:51:33,170 He wanted to rid society of Judeo-Christian values 1081 00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:35,240 when it came to sexuality, 1082 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:37,670 and he worked very hard to do that. 1083 00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:40,343 And I would say he succeeded. 1084 00:51:41,420 --> 00:51:44,960 - [Matt] Kinsey would be very happy with our culture today. 1085 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,740 His idea was that children are sexual from birth. 1086 00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:50,990 That we're all inherently sexual creatures 1087 00:51:50,990 --> 00:51:52,370 from cradle to grave. 1088 00:51:52,370 --> 00:51:54,770 He believed that true happiness is found 1089 00:51:54,770 --> 00:51:57,890 in a life of perverse sexual experimentation, 1090 00:51:57,890 --> 00:51:59,120 no matter the age. 1091 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,573 - What came out is that his research was fraudulent. 1092 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,840 - Kinsey based, his fraudulent conclusions on data 1093 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,760 he collected from convicted sex offenders 1094 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,426 and child molesters. (slide clicking) 1095 00:52:09,426 --> 00:52:11,942 His research was conducted in prisons, not everyday America. 1096 00:52:11,942 --> 00:52:12,775 (slide clicking) 1097 00:52:12,775 --> 00:52:16,010 He also performed horrific sexual experiments on children, 1098 00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:18,795 some under the age of one. (slide clicking) 1099 00:52:18,795 --> 00:52:19,767 His most influential book, 1100 00:52:19,767 --> 00:52:21,980 "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male" 1101 00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:25,070 contains an infamous chart called table 34, 1102 00:52:25,070 --> 00:52:27,740 which documents the orgasms of very young kids, 1103 00:52:27,740 --> 00:52:30,023 including babies as young as five months old. 1104 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,750 But instead of suffering the consequences 1105 00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:34,130 for his heinous actions, 1106 00:52:34,130 --> 00:52:38,090 he was and still is celebrated by academia and Hollywood. 1107 00:52:38,090 --> 00:52:40,940 His ideas formed the foundation for sexual education 1108 00:52:40,940 --> 00:52:42,620 in public schools today. 1109 00:52:42,620 --> 00:52:46,250 How do we get from this to you can choose your own gender? 1110 00:52:46,250 --> 00:52:48,080 - Okay, well now we have another 1111 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,550 and very important character, and his name was John Money. 1112 00:52:52,550 --> 00:52:54,980 - [Matt] John Money was a psychologist and professor 1113 00:52:54,980 --> 00:52:57,350 at Johns Hopkins University. 1114 00:52:57,350 --> 00:53:00,470 Gender ideology was his brain child. 1115 00:53:00,470 --> 00:53:01,790 In fact, he coined the terms 1116 00:53:01,790 --> 00:53:03,743 gender identity and gender roles. 1117 00:53:04,610 --> 00:53:08,150 And according to Money, babies are gender neutral at birth 1118 00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:09,950 and ultimately environment determines 1119 00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:11,870 whether a person is a man or a woman. 1120 00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:15,050 - Money was telling the world about his theory 1121 00:53:15,050 --> 00:53:17,990 that a boy could be raised as a girl 1122 00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:20,630 and do just fine and vice versa. 1123 00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:21,535 - [Matt] And so money tried out his theory 1124 00:53:21,535 --> 00:53:24,530 on two young twin boys, the Reimer twins. 1125 00:53:24,530 --> 00:53:27,680 - When the twins were eight months old 1126 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,720 and they went to be circumcised, 1127 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:33,590 the first twin, whose name was Bruce, 1128 00:53:33,590 --> 00:53:37,190 something went wrong with the machinery 1129 00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:39,560 and his penis was burnt off. 1130 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,600 They stopped and didn't do a second circumcision 1131 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,970 on the other twin, as you might imagine. 1132 00:53:43,970 --> 00:53:47,120 And the parents of course didn't know what to do. 1133 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,800 How are they gonna raise this child? 1134 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,660 - [Matt] John Money convinced Bruce's parents 1135 00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:52,730 to transition him into a girl. 1136 00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:55,580 Money also conducted sexually abusive experiments 1137 00:53:55,580 --> 00:53:57,410 on the twins throughout their childhood, 1138 00:53:57,410 --> 00:54:00,290 including forcing them to simulate sex acts on each other. 1139 00:54:00,290 --> 00:54:03,050 - He reported up to the age of 10 1140 00:54:03,050 --> 00:54:08,270 that this was a complete success. Well, wasn't true. 1141 00:54:08,270 --> 00:54:10,790 - [Matt] The results were a disaster. 1142 00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:13,550 Bruce could never fully accept his female identity. 1143 00:54:13,550 --> 00:54:15,110 Eventually his parents told him the truth 1144 00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:17,690 and he chose to transition back to a boy, 1145 00:54:17,690 --> 00:54:21,170 taking the name David. As an adult, David spoke out 1146 00:54:21,170 --> 00:54:24,260 about the abuse and the damage done to him by John Money. 1147 00:54:24,260 --> 00:54:27,290 - The girls would do their things with their Barbies 1148 00:54:27,290 --> 00:54:28,123 and things like that, 1149 00:54:28,123 --> 00:54:31,573 and that wouldn't interest me. - Mm-hmm. 1150 00:54:31,573 --> 00:54:36,410 - And things such as trucks, and building forts, 1151 00:54:36,410 --> 00:54:38,930 and, you know, get into the odd fist fight 1152 00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:41,510 and climbing trees, that's the kind of stuff that I liked, 1153 00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:44,000 but it was unacceptable. So I never- - As a girl. 1154 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,700 - [David] As, as a girl, I had no place to, to fit in. 1155 00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:48,980 - The trauma that he and his brother 1156 00:54:48,980 --> 00:54:53,450 and his entire family went through left deep scars. 1157 00:54:53,450 --> 00:54:58,450 His brother died of an overdose when he was 38, 1158 00:54:58,730 --> 00:55:01,673 and then David died, committed suicide. 1159 00:55:03,050 --> 00:55:04,760 - There was never a retraction 1160 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,740 or an apology from John Money, 1161 00:55:06,740 --> 00:55:09,770 instead his ideas were adopted by mainstream psychology 1162 00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:13,100 and they formed the basis of gender ideology today. 1163 00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:14,660 Why don't more people know 1164 00:55:14,660 --> 00:55:17,840 about John Money and Alfred Kinsey? 1165 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,910 - Evidently there are forces 1166 00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:21,760 that don't want this information out. 1167 00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:27,483 (gentle brooding music) - I, I never fit. 1168 00:55:27,483 --> 00:55:29,120 I was a, I was an alpha female, 1169 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,693 a sales executive that kind of just didn't fit in any box. 1170 00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:39,170 When psychologists, or somebody that I was in love with, 1171 00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:41,030 or whatever said that I was in the wrong body, 1172 00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:43,793 I started to think, well, maybe I am. 1173 00:55:47,330 --> 00:55:51,830 I'm a biological woman that medically transitioned 1174 00:55:51,830 --> 00:55:53,510 to appear like a male 1175 00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:56,390 through synthetic hormones and surgery. 1176 00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:59,840 I will never be a man. 1177 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,250 Is it transphobic for me to tell the truth? 1178 00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:06,320 Why is it in a couple hundred years from now 1179 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:07,340 if you dug up my body, 1180 00:56:07,340 --> 00:56:10,823 they're gonna go, yep, that was a woman. Had babies. 1181 00:56:11,660 --> 00:56:16,403 - Can you tell me about the procedures that you, you had? 1182 00:56:16,403 --> 00:56:17,873 - I've had seven surgeries. 1183 00:56:18,890 --> 00:56:20,750 I've had one stress heart attack. 1184 00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:24,170 I've had a helicopter life ride with a pulmonary embolism. 1185 00:56:24,170 --> 00:56:29,120 I've had 17 rounds of antibiotics. I had six inches of hair 1186 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,540 on the inside of my urethra for 17 months. 1187 00:56:32,540 --> 00:56:33,650 Nobody would help me, 1188 00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:35,137 including the doctor that did this to me, 1189 00:56:35,137 --> 00:56:37,460 'cause I lost my insurance. 1190 00:56:37,460 --> 00:56:39,740 I get infections every three to four months. 1191 00:56:39,740 --> 00:56:42,203 I'm probably not gonna live very long. 1192 00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:45,260 - Was there any real discussion 1193 00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:48,493 of the risks and the side effects and? 1194 00:56:48,493 --> 00:56:52,640 - No, no, there's not. 1195 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,650 And I know that people want to think that there is, 1196 00:56:54,650 --> 00:56:55,553 but there's not. 1197 00:56:56,450 --> 00:57:00,110 The truth is, is that medical transition is experimental. 1198 00:57:00,110 --> 00:57:04,340 We have studies that said that medical transition 1199 00:57:04,340 --> 00:57:06,950 helps mental health, helps mental health with kids. 1200 00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:10,850 They've all been retracted, modified, changed. 1201 00:57:10,850 --> 00:57:14,690 But the only long-term study tells us seven to 10 years 1202 00:57:14,690 --> 00:57:18,053 is when transgender people are the most suicidal. 1203 00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:23,930 - After. - After surgery. But that's transphobic to say. 1204 00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:26,990 For the first time in history 1205 00:57:26,990 --> 00:57:31,040 a marginalized group has a huge dollar sign 1206 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,870 on the top of their head. We have five children's hospitals 1207 00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:39,773 in the United States promoting that. 1208 00:57:43,285 --> 00:57:46,430 - What? - That's a phalloplasty. That's a bottom surgery. 1209 00:57:46,430 --> 00:57:50,960 We have five children's hospitals in the United States 1210 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,960 telling girls that they can be boys at $70,000 a pop 1211 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,050 in a surgery that has a 67% complication rate 1212 00:58:03,050 --> 00:58:08,050 that will kill me from infection that I can't sue on. 1213 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,090 We're butchering a generation of children 1214 00:58:11,090 --> 00:58:14,000 because nobody's willing to talk about anything. 1215 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,720 I have three kids 1216 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,933 at the age that they're doing this to kids. 1217 00:58:22,490 --> 00:58:24,500 I'm not transphobic. 1218 00:58:24,500 --> 00:58:27,410 I love my kids and I love other people's kids. 1219 00:58:27,410 --> 00:58:28,823 And you should too. 1220 00:58:30,140 --> 00:58:35,140 This is wrong on so many levels. 1221 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,060 - Can kids consent? Do you think kids are- - No. 1222 00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:40,100 - Capable of consenting to this? - No, they're not. 1223 00:58:40,100 --> 00:58:43,490 Being a parent is loving the hell outta your kids 1224 00:58:43,490 --> 00:58:45,980 and helping them see around corners. 1225 00:58:45,980 --> 00:58:47,450 - What's the, what's the youngest patient 1226 00:58:47,450 --> 00:58:49,313 that you've operated on? 1227 00:58:50,450 --> 00:58:53,340 - The youngest patient I've done vaginal plasty on 1228 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,920 um, is age 16. - Do you worry that minors 1229 00:59:00,740 --> 00:59:03,080 just don't understand enough about themselves? 1230 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,060 They're not neurologically developed enough yet 1231 00:59:05,060 --> 00:59:10,820 to make permanent life altering decisions. - Absolutely not. 1232 00:59:10,820 --> 00:59:13,790 - A young person's self-perception 1233 00:59:13,790 --> 00:59:15,710 one day they may be clear, 1234 00:59:15,710 --> 00:59:19,040 the next day they may be totally confused and not sure. 1235 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,910 And you're affirming it with hormones 1236 00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:25,700 that have never been used in this way. 1237 00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:28,010 In the, in the field of medicine. 1238 00:59:28,010 --> 00:59:29,390 - You're talking about puberty blockers. 1239 00:59:29,390 --> 00:59:32,450 - Blockers, and then opposite sex hormones. 1240 00:59:32,450 --> 00:59:34,520 - At what age does the medical transition 1241 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,600 begin with medication? - So medical affirmation 1242 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,780 begins when the patient says they're ready for it. 1243 00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:44,210 So that could be a, a kiddo 1244 00:59:44,210 --> 00:59:47,600 who is just starting puberty and panicking 1245 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,070 'cause they're getting breast buds 1246 00:59:49,070 --> 00:59:52,400 or their penis is getting bigger and busier, 1247 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,670 and they're worried about all kinds of masculine changes. 1248 00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:57,590 And that way puberty blockers, 1249 00:59:57,590 --> 01:00:00,110 which are completely reversible, 1250 01:00:00,110 --> 01:00:02,840 and don't have permanent effects 1251 01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,950 are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty. 1252 01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:08,480 Just like if you were to listen in music, 1253 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,450 you put the pause on, and we stop the blockers, 1254 01:00:11,450 --> 01:00:14,810 and puberty would go right back to where it was, 1255 01:00:14,810 --> 01:00:19,280 the next note in the song just delayed that period of time. 1256 01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,920 - You can just pause puberty. - No you can't. 1257 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:22,753 - And then pick it up- 1258 01:00:22,753 --> 01:00:25,040 - No you can't. - In the future. - No you can't. 1259 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,440 How many studies do they have, long-term studies 1260 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,370 on hormone blockers with children? None. 1261 01:00:31,370 --> 01:00:33,560 - I just spoke a month or two ago 1262 01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:38,560 with a mother whose 14-year-old daughter 1263 01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:44,420 was put on blockers. They discovered after two years 1264 01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:46,970 this 14-year-old girl has osteoporosis. 1265 01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:49,220 That's something that like old women get. 1266 01:00:49,220 --> 01:00:51,590 - How can doctors assure parents 1267 01:00:51,590 --> 01:00:54,620 that a certain medicine is totally safe? 1268 01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:55,520 If based on what you're saying, 1269 01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,980 they can't possibly know that. 1270 01:00:57,980 --> 01:01:00,050 - How can they be removing the healthy breasts 1271 01:01:00,050 --> 01:01:04,943 of 15-year-old girls? How can they be sterilizing kids? 1272 01:01:06,451 --> 01:01:08,960 How can this whole thing be happening, Matt? 1273 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,680 - Every child that they convince is, is transgender 1274 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,270 and in need of medical transition 1275 01:01:14,270 --> 01:01:18,320 it generates 1.3 million to pharma. 1276 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,430 And we're believing a pharmaceutical company, Lupron, 1277 01:01:22,430 --> 01:01:26,360 hormone blockers reversible so they say. 1278 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,440 Well, the truth is that in 2003 Lupron was sued 1279 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,950 and deemed a criminal enterprise by the US government. 1280 01:01:33,950 --> 01:01:37,880 They paid the most fine of any pharmaceutical company 1281 01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:42,290 at that time, $874 million, wrote a check. 1282 01:01:42,290 --> 01:01:46,243 - Is Lupron chemical castration? - Yes. 1283 01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:51,410 We're giving it to pedophiles aren't we? 1284 01:01:51,410 --> 01:01:52,670 We're giving it to people that are dying. 1285 01:01:52,670 --> 01:01:54,590 And we're giving it to kids telling them 1286 01:01:54,590 --> 01:01:55,910 that they were born in the wrong body 1287 01:01:55,910 --> 01:01:57,410 and it's completely safe. 1288 01:01:57,410 --> 01:01:59,120 - One of the drugs used is Lupron, right? 1289 01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,340 Which- - Mm-hmm. - Has actually been used 1290 01:02:01,340 --> 01:02:03,833 to chemically castrate sex offenders. 1291 01:02:04,676 --> 01:02:05,890 - You know what? 1292 01:02:05,890 --> 01:02:07,820 I'm not sure that we should continue with this interview, 1293 01:02:07,820 --> 01:02:08,653 because it seems like it's going- 1294 01:02:08,653 --> 01:02:10,850 - Why not? - In a particular direction. 1295 01:02:10,850 --> 01:02:12,200 - Well, you're a medical professional. 1296 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:13,820 - I am a medical professional. 1297 01:02:13,820 --> 01:02:16,100 - So you don't wanna talk about the drugs 1298 01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:17,737 that you give to kids or? 1299 01:02:18,625 --> 01:02:22,100 - Again, I'm a physician and I use medication. 1300 01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:25,703 You're choosing exploitive words, drugs I give to kids. 1301 01:02:25,703 --> 01:02:26,900 - I'm, I'm choosing a- 1302 01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:28,880 - Chemical castration. - Word that was in a dictionary. 1303 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,950 - That's not a correct term for puberty blocking 1304 01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:31,783 in a transgender person. - I mean I could 1305 01:02:31,783 --> 01:02:32,616 look it up on my phone, 1306 01:02:32,616 --> 01:02:33,563 but I'm pretty sure if I looked it up like- 1307 01:02:33,563 --> 01:02:35,420 - You, you can look it up on your phone. 1308 01:02:35,420 --> 01:02:38,420 - It says, "Medical definition, the administration of a drug 1309 01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:41,000 to bring about a marked reduction of the body's production 1310 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,830 of androgens and especially testosterone." 1311 01:02:42,830 --> 01:02:45,860 - And I'm saying as a pediatrician 1312 01:02:45,860 --> 01:02:47,780 who takes care of hundreds of these kids, 1313 01:02:47,780 --> 01:02:49,970 when you use that terminology 1314 01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:51,799 you were being malignant and harmful. 1315 01:02:51,799 --> 01:02:53,240 - I mean, there are some who would say 1316 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,590 that giving chemical drugs to kids is malignant and harmful. 1317 01:02:57,590 --> 01:03:00,050 - It's about the context of caring for a child 1318 01:03:00,050 --> 01:03:05,050 and, and seeing the, the suffering that kids 1319 01:03:05,090 --> 01:03:08,946 can have that have not been an affirmative home situations. 1320 01:03:08,946 --> 01:03:10,170 - What do you say to the claim that, 1321 01:03:10,170 --> 01:03:13,460 well, we have to do this for these kids 1322 01:03:13,460 --> 01:03:16,400 because if we don't, they'll kill themselves, 1323 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,430 they'll, they'll resort to drugs and self harm? 1324 01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:21,290 - A lot of them were hurting themselves. 1325 01:03:21,290 --> 01:03:22,610 A lot of them were suicidal 1326 01:03:22,610 --> 01:03:24,980 before they even discovered gender. 1327 01:03:24,980 --> 01:03:28,310 That is never part of the discussion. 1328 01:03:28,310 --> 01:03:30,950 And they say, what would you rather 1329 01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:34,550 have a, a living daughter or a dead son? 1330 01:03:34,550 --> 01:03:37,220 If this is what the professionals are saying, 1331 01:03:37,220 --> 01:03:42,383 it's terrible emotional blackmail. (brooding music) 1332 01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:45,791 - [Man] Hello? - [Matt] Hey, is this (beep)? 1333 01:03:45,791 --> 01:03:48,680 - [Man] This is yes. - [Matt] Hey it's it's Matt Walsh. 1334 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:50,960 Are you, where are you right now? 1335 01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:52,760 - [Man] I'm, I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia, 1336 01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,173 Canada right now. 1337 01:03:54,173 --> 01:03:56,423 - [Matt] Are you, can, are you able to leave? 1338 01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:58,880 - [Man] I'm not able to leave B.C. 1339 01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,875 I can't even go to another province in Canada right now. 1340 01:04:01,875 --> 01:04:04,325 Uh, and it's because I'm technically out on bail. 1341 01:04:05,300 --> 01:04:09,347 - [Matt] What happened exactly? (dramatic music) 1342 01:04:26,990 --> 01:04:30,320 How exactly did, did this get into the courts to begin with? 1343 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:31,370 - [Man] Right, so what happened 1344 01:04:31,370 --> 01:04:33,980 is we set up a meeting with B.C. Children's Hospital 1345 01:04:33,980 --> 01:04:36,830 and according to the B.C. Children's Hospital website, 1346 01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:38,540 there's gonna be a thorough evaluation. 1347 01:04:38,540 --> 01:04:40,910 and I'm thinking, good. This is gonna be the end of it all. 1348 01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:42,560 They're gonna clearly see that my child 1349 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,360 is not the opposite sex. 1350 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,050 So my ex-wife brings my child into B.C. Children's hospital. 1351 01:04:48,050 --> 01:04:50,840 I get a call less than an hour into that appointment 1352 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:52,970 that they were gonna pump her full cross-sex hormones 1353 01:04:52,970 --> 01:04:56,323 within the hour. And I put a halt to that. I said, no. 1354 01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,240 They agreed to, to stop for the moment. 1355 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,010 They figured, well, let's get the dad on board too. 1356 01:05:01,010 --> 01:05:02,000 This is all gonna be better. 1357 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,680 Let's just get everybody on the same page. 1358 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:05,120 I said, it's not gonna happen. 1359 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,190 So I get a letter from B.C. Children's Hospital 1360 01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:09,740 in December of 2018, 1361 01:05:09,740 --> 01:05:11,630 and it says, "That under the B.C. Infant's Act 1362 01:05:11,630 --> 01:05:14,660 they will start injecting my child with cross-sex hormones, 1363 01:05:14,660 --> 01:05:17,450 and I have two weeks to respond with legal action 1364 01:05:17,450 --> 01:05:20,180 if I so choose." And so that's how I ended up in court 1365 01:05:20,180 --> 01:05:22,220 'cause I did respond with legal action. 1366 01:05:22,220 --> 01:05:25,700 - [Matt] So you called your daughter a she, 1367 01:05:25,700 --> 01:05:28,490 and you, you went to jail for that? 1368 01:05:28,490 --> 01:05:30,260 - [Man] It's considered criminal violence 1369 01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:32,750 to not use the preferred pronouns. 1370 01:05:32,750 --> 01:05:35,660 It's no different than let's say I were to take a broomstick 1371 01:05:35,660 --> 01:05:37,670 and whack one of my kids over the head. 1372 01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:39,890 So they were treating it in a similar fashion 1373 01:05:39,890 --> 01:05:42,680 that misgendering, mispronouning my child 1374 01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,440 was the equivalent of family violence. 1375 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,490 - [Matt] Is she on the hormone pills now? 1376 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:49,790 - [Man] She is. 1377 01:05:49,790 --> 01:05:52,590 The court ordered that she could do whatever she wanted. 1378 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,820 - 2010 until I would say 2016, 1379 01:06:00,740 --> 01:06:04,040 I would say 80% of my clients were trans youth. 1380 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,960 Now it is you identify, you take hormones, you do surgery. 1381 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,140 There isn't any other pathways. 1382 01:06:12,140 --> 01:06:14,240 - So if you have two parents, 1383 01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,750 one parent wants to affirm the trans identity, 1384 01:06:17,750 --> 01:06:19,850 the other parent doesn't who wins that battle? 1385 01:06:19,850 --> 01:06:22,003 - The one who wants to affirm. - Every time? 1386 01:06:22,003 --> 01:06:22,836 - Every single time. 1387 01:06:22,836 --> 01:06:26,735 The goal is to get the parents to affirm the kid. 1388 01:06:26,735 --> 01:06:32,240 (plane engine humming) (dramatic music) 1389 01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,330 - There's no such thing as a gender affirming therapist. 1390 01:06:35,330 --> 01:06:37,663 That's a contradiction in terms. - Why? 1391 01:06:37,663 --> 01:06:39,380 - Because you don't affirm if you're a therapist. 1392 01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:41,183 It's not your business to affirm. 1393 01:06:42,140 --> 01:06:44,420 You come to see me 'cause there's something wrong. 1394 01:06:44,420 --> 01:06:45,350 Maybe you come to see me 1395 01:06:45,350 --> 01:06:47,060 because a destructive element of you 1396 01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:48,980 is wreaking havoc in your life. 1397 01:06:48,980 --> 01:06:50,540 I'm on the side of the part of you 1398 01:06:50,540 --> 01:06:54,140 that wants to aim up, man. That's what I'm on the side of. 1399 01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:56,750 Okay, now I don't know what that means in your case, 1400 01:06:56,750 --> 01:06:58,180 but we're gonna talk about it. 1401 01:06:58,180 --> 01:07:00,590 Am I gonna affirm what you think? 1402 01:07:00,590 --> 01:07:02,690 No, it's not up to me to affirm it. 1403 01:07:02,690 --> 01:07:05,270 You don't get a casual pat on the back from a therapist 1404 01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:08,150 for your preexisting axiomatic conclusions. 1405 01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:10,820 That's not therapy. That's a rubber stamp. 1406 01:07:10,820 --> 01:07:15,710 - Is anybody at any point explaining to these kids 1407 01:07:15,710 --> 01:07:18,470 the, the, the real long-term consequences 1408 01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:20,930 of hormones and puberty blockers? 1409 01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:23,120 - I don't think they're explaining it to the kids. 1410 01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:24,410 So that has frightened me, 1411 01:07:24,410 --> 01:07:28,730 that it's become that we're even talking to the kids 1412 01:07:28,730 --> 01:07:31,880 about it at 10, we're presenting it in schools. 1413 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,680 - So this generation, they're the, they're the lab rats? 1414 01:07:36,260 --> 01:07:38,420 - Biological sex binary. 1415 01:07:38,420 --> 01:07:41,060 It's been binary for like a hundred million years, 1416 01:07:41,060 --> 01:07:41,893 longer than that. 1417 01:07:41,893 --> 01:07:44,630 Temperament is not binary, temperament or personality. 1418 01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:46,730 - So that's gender. Temperament is gender? 1419 01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:50,630 - Well, gender's not a good word, 1420 01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:53,690 because it's vague and it isn't measurable. 1421 01:07:53,690 --> 01:07:55,356 - So do we need it? Why can we just say temperament? 1422 01:07:55,356 --> 01:07:56,810 What do we even need the word gender for? 1423 01:07:56,810 --> 01:07:59,430 - Well, I don't need it. - Yeah. - But what I would say 1424 01:07:59,430 --> 01:08:02,990 is that people who talk about the diversity and gender 1425 01:08:02,990 --> 01:08:04,190 are actually talking 1426 01:08:04,190 --> 01:08:06,260 about diversity, and personality, and temperament, 1427 01:08:06,260 --> 01:08:07,460 but they don't know it. 1428 01:08:07,460 --> 01:08:10,070 You can have a masculine temperament if you're a woman. 1429 01:08:10,070 --> 01:08:13,970 Maybe one in 10 women have the average temperament of a man. 1430 01:08:13,970 --> 01:08:16,340 And you can have feminine men temperamentally. 1431 01:08:16,340 --> 01:08:18,770 And it's not that uncommon, because the differences 1432 01:08:18,770 --> 01:08:21,650 between men and women temperamentally aren't that great. 1433 01:08:21,650 --> 01:08:24,890 There are masculine girls. There are feminine boys. 1434 01:08:24,890 --> 01:08:27,350 What are we gonna do about that? Carve them up. 1435 01:08:27,350 --> 01:08:31,340 - You as someone who, who started your professional life, 1436 01:08:31,340 --> 01:08:34,130 you know, transgender care. - Yeah. 1437 01:08:34,130 --> 01:08:36,320 - Now you're sitting here talking to me 1438 01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,740 um, and I'm a dangerous man I've been told. 1439 01:08:39,740 --> 01:08:43,580 - Mm-hmm. - Are you worried about reprisals? 1440 01:08:43,580 --> 01:08:45,050 Are you worried about how this is gonna be, 1441 01:08:45,050 --> 01:08:47,720 how this is gonna play among your professional peers? 1442 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,150 - I am worried that I can't have conversations 1443 01:08:50,150 --> 01:08:53,450 with any other peers. I don't know any other peer 1444 01:08:53,450 --> 01:08:57,110 that will speak to me around these things. That question it. 1445 01:08:57,110 --> 01:08:59,790 I just don't think developmentally 1446 01:09:00,950 --> 01:09:03,380 this is helpful to our children. 1447 01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:05,000 - You step wrong as the therapist, 1448 01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,230 you say the wrong thing once, 1449 01:09:06,230 --> 01:09:08,360 and like your bloody career is over. 1450 01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,070 And now it's the same with physicians. 1451 01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:11,480 How's that gonna work? 1452 01:09:11,480 --> 01:09:13,040 You're gonna go have an honest conversation 1453 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,860 with your physician when he's terrified out of his mind 1454 01:09:15,860 --> 01:09:17,900 that he'll say something politically incorrect 1455 01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:19,580 during the diagnostic processes. 1456 01:09:19,580 --> 01:09:22,610 Hey man, you're sick with whatever you wanna be. 1457 01:09:22,610 --> 01:09:26,660 See you later. You want a prescription for something. 1458 01:09:26,660 --> 01:09:28,520 - I left academia because the climate 1459 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,070 had become too stifling politically, 1460 01:09:31,070 --> 01:09:34,010 especially when it comes to the topic of gender identity 1461 01:09:34,010 --> 01:09:35,450 and the science of gender 1462 01:09:35,450 --> 01:09:38,630 it is absolutely impossible to do good research. 1463 01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:40,190 You basically have to decide beforehand 1464 01:09:40,190 --> 01:09:41,690 what you're going to find, 1465 01:09:41,690 --> 01:09:43,190 so that you don't upset activists. 1466 01:09:43,190 --> 01:09:45,020 And that is not how you do science. 1467 01:09:45,020 --> 01:09:46,430 - Why has this shift occurred 1468 01:09:46,430 --> 01:09:48,560 where all of a sudden gender and sex 1469 01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,010 have become so politically and culturally charged? 1470 01:09:52,010 --> 01:09:54,500 - There is a really ugly history 1471 01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:57,860 between sex researchers and transgender activists. 1472 01:09:57,860 --> 01:10:00,830 In the past if any sex researcher spoke out 1473 01:10:00,830 --> 01:10:04,850 about science that went against activists orthodoxy, 1474 01:10:04,850 --> 01:10:08,030 or particular narratives that activists wanted to promote, 1475 01:10:08,030 --> 01:10:09,650 they would basically have their personal 1476 01:10:09,650 --> 01:10:11,450 and professional reputations ruined. 1477 01:10:11,450 --> 01:10:14,990 So what you see is that only experts who tow the party line 1478 01:10:14,990 --> 01:10:16,910 and say the things that activists like, 1479 01:10:16,910 --> 01:10:18,470 those are the people who get attention. 1480 01:10:18,470 --> 01:10:20,390 Those are the people who get lifted up in the media. 1481 01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:23,390 And also, I would say people are incentivized to go along 1482 01:10:23,390 --> 01:10:25,970 with the activist narratives and gender ideology, 1483 01:10:25,970 --> 01:10:28,970 because that helps their career. - Trans is very cool. 1484 01:10:28,970 --> 01:10:32,930 Trans is a way of, of, of giving yourself value. 1485 01:10:32,930 --> 01:10:36,080 Given the way society at the moment is functioning. 1486 01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,800 All of the things that used to give us anchors of identity 1487 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,340 have become very fluid or very volatile in recent years. 1488 01:10:43,340 --> 01:10:46,130 And into that context, I think what, what you find then is, 1489 01:10:46,130 --> 01:10:50,840 is new identities start to, to fill the void or the vacuum. 1490 01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,510 Whereas in the past, I might have got my sense of self-worth 1491 01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:56,030 from being part of the village where I grew up. 1492 01:10:56,030 --> 01:10:57,980 Now, I might get my sense of self-worth 1493 01:10:57,980 --> 01:11:00,890 through being part of the online community 1494 01:11:00,890 --> 01:11:02,750 that I connect with or part of the, 1495 01:11:02,750 --> 01:11:07,040 the sexual identity community. - So now we are seeing kids 1496 01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,570 that are identifying as animals going to school, 1497 01:11:11,570 --> 01:11:14,720 and they are purring instead of answering questions 1498 01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:15,920 and they meow, 1499 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:20,240 and the teachers are not allowed to question it 1500 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,400 because it's considered a queer identity. 1501 01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:25,460 - So you have kids that are going to school 1502 01:11:25,460 --> 01:11:28,160 and they're saying I'm a cat. - Mm-hmm. 1503 01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:32,570 - And the teachers have to affirm them as a cat? 1504 01:11:32,570 --> 01:11:33,530 - Yes, so it's not- - So schools are- 1505 01:11:33,530 --> 01:11:34,880 - Just the young ones. - Like literal, 1506 01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:40,190 literal zoos now basically. - They are. (Naia howling) 1507 01:11:40,190 --> 01:11:43,340 - I am a 27-year-old transgender woman. 1508 01:11:43,340 --> 01:11:46,580 I am a wolf therian and a member of the furry fandom. 1509 01:11:46,580 --> 01:11:49,583 - When and how did you discover this inner wolfness? 1510 01:11:50,540 --> 01:11:52,550 - Probably around age 10 or 11. 1511 01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:55,790 I was watching an anime about wolves, 1512 01:11:55,790 --> 01:11:59,000 and see the wolf running across the screen, 1513 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,703 and I'm somehow just intrinsically like, oh, that's me. 1514 01:12:01,703 --> 01:12:04,610 - Have you spent any time around biological wolves? 1515 01:12:04,610 --> 01:12:07,280 - Yes. - That sounds dangerous also. 1516 01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:08,300 What, what context are you? 1517 01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:11,030 - So I was a volunteer with a preserve, 1518 01:12:11,030 --> 01:12:14,270 and I've, I've also visited many wolf preserves. 1519 01:12:14,270 --> 01:12:17,780 - Are you able to communicate with the wolves? 1520 01:12:17,780 --> 01:12:20,060 - Am I gonna have a conversation with the wolf 1521 01:12:20,060 --> 01:12:23,510 in the way that I'm communicating you and I? Obviously not. 1522 01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:25,760 Am I going to read their body language, 1523 01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:28,580 respond appropriately to their behaviors 1524 01:12:28,580 --> 01:12:30,673 and their nonverbal cues? Yes. 1525 01:12:30,673 --> 01:12:32,180 - Would you be able, would you be able to give us 1526 01:12:32,180 --> 01:12:36,398 an example of this wolf communication? - No. 1527 01:12:36,398 --> 01:12:39,110 I'm not comfortable doing so. - Okay, all right. 1528 01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:44,110 How exactly have these ideas become so pervasive? 1529 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:47,150 - First of all, I think we need to remember 1530 01:12:47,150 --> 01:12:50,720 that in the West at least, we have it drilled into our minds 1531 01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,510 from childhood onwards that personal happiness 1532 01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:56,150 is the key to individual flourishing. 1533 01:12:56,150 --> 01:12:58,820 Secondly, we think of ourselves in psychological terms. 1534 01:12:58,820 --> 01:13:02,780 I am my feelings. And in order for me to be happy, 1535 01:13:02,780 --> 01:13:04,430 I have to be able to express my feelings. 1536 01:13:04,430 --> 01:13:05,750 I have to be outwardly 1537 01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:08,450 that which I feel myself to be inwardly. 1538 01:13:08,450 --> 01:13:11,420 Thirdly, we are taught that interfering 1539 01:13:11,420 --> 01:13:14,090 with somebody else's happiness is very bad. 1540 01:13:14,090 --> 01:13:16,880 We need to acknowledge that there are powerful lobby groups, 1541 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,310 powerful cultural and political lobby groups 1542 01:13:19,310 --> 01:13:21,080 driving this thing. 1543 01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:26,080 Hollywood is pressing LGBTQ+ matters in so many movies. 1544 01:13:26,570 --> 01:13:30,230 We're seeing it in the way Amazon sets up its algorithms. 1545 01:13:30,230 --> 01:13:32,900 There are all kinds of factors in society 1546 01:13:32,900 --> 01:13:36,050 that are pushing what would really be numerically 1547 01:13:36,050 --> 01:13:39,110 a fairly minority interest into being one 1548 01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:43,254 of the main political focal points of this generation. 1549 01:13:43,254 --> 01:13:46,004 (dramatic music) 1550 01:13:46,910 --> 01:13:49,790 - After my operation, I will be a woman. 1551 01:13:49,790 --> 01:13:52,850 - Why can't she just be a lesbian? 1552 01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:56,000 - 'Cause she's not a lesbian mom. She's a boy. 1553 01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,190 - Because I was born in a girl's body. 1554 01:13:58,190 --> 01:14:01,850 - Can I ask you a question? Why don't you kiss me? 1555 01:14:01,850 --> 01:14:03,800 - [Preston] The whole idea of social contagion, 1556 01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,650 that there could be something in one social environment 1557 01:14:06,650 --> 01:14:09,410 that could play some role in somebody coming out, 1558 01:14:09,410 --> 01:14:10,430 identifying as trans, 1559 01:14:10,430 --> 01:14:13,730 would you say that that is definitely part of your story? 1560 01:14:13,730 --> 01:14:16,370 - When I look back, I don't think I would've ever even 1561 01:14:16,370 --> 01:14:19,820 considered in seeing myself as a boy 1562 01:14:19,820 --> 01:14:22,010 without these social aspects. 1563 01:14:22,010 --> 01:14:24,753 Especially if I hadn't joined these online communities. 1564 01:14:24,753 --> 01:14:28,460 (fast tempo dramatic music) - I identify as non-binary. 1565 01:14:28,460 --> 01:14:30,860 I'll officially be changing my pronouns to they/them. 1566 01:14:30,860 --> 01:14:34,430 - My pronouns are he/him and demon/demonself. 1567 01:14:34,430 --> 01:14:36,860 - I've been going by they/them pronouns for four years now. 1568 01:14:36,860 --> 01:14:38,526 I'm pretty- - They! - Comfortable with it. - They! 1569 01:14:38,526 --> 01:14:42,470 I use they/them pronouns. - There was literally a period 1570 01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:46,100 of a few weeks to a few months, I started out as an ally, 1571 01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:48,710 and then eventually I starting to identify as transgender. 1572 01:14:48,710 --> 01:14:50,870 - [Both] We are trans models. - So they go on the internet 1573 01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:53,720 and they're told that all of their problems will be solved 1574 01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,730 if they become a man. 1575 01:14:55,730 --> 01:14:59,090 - Kids are being taught you might feel like you're a boy 1576 01:14:59,090 --> 01:15:01,610 even if you have a vagina and you're a girl, 1577 01:15:01,610 --> 01:15:03,500 you are what you feel you are. 1578 01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:05,780 - Some people are girls, some are boys, some are both, 1579 01:15:05,780 --> 01:15:06,613 some are neither. 1580 01:15:06,613 --> 01:15:09,020 Gender is all about how we feel on the inside 1581 01:15:09,020 --> 01:15:10,534 and how we express ourselves. 1582 01:15:10,534 --> 01:15:12,440 - Ah, the gender fluid teacher. 1583 01:15:12,440 --> 01:15:15,590 What do I go by in the classroom? I go by teacher Fambrini. 1584 01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:17,630 - As a queer and trans teacher my agenda 1585 01:15:17,630 --> 01:15:19,340 is to show little boys that they don't have 1586 01:15:19,340 --> 01:15:21,920 to be like as stereotypically masculine. 1587 01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,660 That they can like paint their nails and wear earrings 1588 01:15:23,660 --> 01:15:26,000 and like still be a guy, and like it can be cool. 1589 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:26,870 - So you worry that there, 1590 01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:30,770 there could be a sort of social contagion element of this? 1591 01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:34,430 - A teeny tiny bit, maybe. (dramatic music) 1592 01:15:34,430 --> 01:15:36,620 - [Helena] Looking back on it was the same pattern. 1593 01:15:36,620 --> 01:15:38,570 Just kids who were really struggling. 1594 01:15:38,570 --> 01:15:41,420 Kids who were very alone and isolated. 1595 01:15:41,420 --> 01:15:42,680 - [Miriam] They have anxiety. 1596 01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:44,600 They don't fit in with their peers. 1597 01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,850 They don't know where they belong. 1598 01:15:46,850 --> 01:15:49,610 - Maybe they didn't have a welcoming family life. 1599 01:15:49,610 --> 01:15:52,160 They just got caught up in these communities online. 1600 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,640 - Then they discover, hey, there's these group of people 1601 01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:57,973 and they also don't fit in. They're different. 1602 01:15:57,973 --> 01:16:01,160 They're not sure who they are. Gee, that's where I fit in. 1603 01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,160 - Today is the day before my top surgery. 1604 01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:05,990 I am waking up tomorrow at 5:00 am 1605 01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:08,390 to have a subcutaneous mastectomy. 1606 01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:11,480 - We're telling children when they haven't fully developed 1607 01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:15,230 that all you have to do is medically transition 1608 01:16:15,230 --> 01:16:18,350 and you fit in. I was one of those kids. 1609 01:16:18,350 --> 01:16:23,649 It got me at 42. Your child doesn't have a chance. 1610 01:16:23,649 --> 01:16:28,010 (dramatic music) - Trans rights. 1611 01:16:28,010 --> 01:16:30,410 This is only going in one direction. 1612 01:16:30,410 --> 01:16:35,900 You will respect us. (slow tempo electronic music) 1613 01:16:35,900 --> 01:16:39,920 - As parents come to understand more about gender identity 1614 01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,020 kids are coming out at younger ages. 1615 01:16:42,020 --> 01:16:45,200 - It's exciting. And you know, who gets it right? 1616 01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:46,880 Is this next generation. 1617 01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,550 - The next generation who's already telling us 1618 01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:51,770 that our antiquated ideas of things 1619 01:16:51,770 --> 01:16:54,743 have to be a certain way just don't apply to them. 1620 01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,330 - They're rejecting a lot of our social mores. 1621 01:16:59,330 --> 01:17:00,730 They're tweaking the system. 1622 01:17:04,755 --> 01:17:07,160 (dramatic music) - I just don't think it's realistic 1623 01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,030 to put this decision on them that is basically saying, 1624 01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:16,010 are you okay with the risk of permanent health effects 1625 01:17:16,010 --> 01:17:18,230 that you can never, ever reverse? 1626 01:17:18,230 --> 01:17:20,657 How can you ask that of such a small child? 1627 01:17:20,657 --> 01:17:25,550 (gentle dramatic music) (dramatic music) 1628 01:17:25,550 --> 01:17:28,220 - [Michelle] I'm a physician and I use medication. 1629 01:17:28,220 --> 01:17:30,980 - [Marci] Certainly, it's a bit of a Faustian bargain. 1630 01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:32,030 - [Michelle] Puberty blockers, 1631 01:17:32,030 --> 01:17:34,043 which are completely reversible. 1632 01:17:37,070 --> 01:17:40,152 - [Patrick] You keep invoking the word truth, 1633 01:17:40,152 --> 01:17:42,410 which is condescending and rude. 1634 01:17:42,410 --> 01:17:44,000 - [Gert] Some women have penises, right? 1635 01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:45,263 Some men have vaginas. 1636 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,380 - [Michelle] Does a chicken cry? 1637 01:17:48,380 --> 01:17:50,063 Does a chicken commit suicide? 1638 01:17:50,930 --> 01:17:54,620 - [Gert] I'm not a woman, so I, I can't really answer that. 1639 01:17:54,620 --> 01:17:57,003 - [Don] I guess because I got a dick. 1640 01:17:57,954 --> 01:18:00,621 (ominous music) 1641 01:18:11,256 --> 01:18:14,930 (brooding music) - [Matt] Somehow this madness 1642 01:18:14,930 --> 01:18:16,853 has infected our entire society. 1643 01:18:18,380 --> 01:18:19,493 Am I the crazy one? 1644 01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:27,920 I'm done asking questions. (chair thudding) (board thuds) 1645 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,780 - Tanner Cross is on administrative leave 1646 01:18:29,780 --> 01:18:31,790 for what he said about gender identity. 1647 01:18:31,790 --> 01:18:33,410 He said, "He would not call a student 1648 01:18:33,410 --> 01:18:35,750 who's transgender by their preferred pronoun." 1649 01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:37,160 - I can't lie to children. 1650 01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,590 And, and I gotta also represent a whole community 1651 01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:42,560 that believes in biological facts and scientific facts. 1652 01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:44,540 And I just can't, I can't do that to kids. 1653 01:18:44,540 --> 01:18:46,340 - You get into teaching because you love kids. 1654 01:18:46,340 --> 01:18:48,770 This policy started coming into play 1655 01:18:48,770 --> 01:18:50,300 and I was like, wait a minute, 1656 01:18:50,300 --> 01:18:52,850 It's causing me, I'm gonna have to lie to my kids. 1657 01:18:52,850 --> 01:18:54,470 The ones I've always wanted to protect. 1658 01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:58,100 - Do we have assaults in our bathrooms, 1659 01:18:58,100 --> 01:19:00,560 in our locker rooms regularly? 1660 01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,140 - [Man] To my knowledge, we don't have any records 1661 01:19:03,140 --> 01:19:04,644 of assaults occurring in our restroom. 1662 01:19:04,644 --> 01:19:07,485 - [Woman] My child was raped at school, 1663 01:19:07,485 --> 01:19:09,568 and this is what happens. 1664 01:19:10,730 --> 01:19:13,190 - The predator transgender student is, 1665 01:19:13,190 --> 01:19:16,280 or person simply it does not exist. 1666 01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:17,787 - The Virginia Department of Education says, 1667 01:19:17,787 --> 01:19:19,250 "It is now reviewing whether 1668 01:19:19,250 --> 01:19:20,870 the Loudoun County school district 1669 01:19:20,870 --> 01:19:23,330 has properly reported cases of sexual assault." 1670 01:19:23,330 --> 01:19:25,040 This comes after a 15-year-old 1671 01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,020 was charged on two separate occasions 1672 01:19:27,020 --> 01:19:30,533 for assaulting two different students at different schools. 1673 01:19:32,540 --> 01:19:34,610 - Dozens rallying tonight in Loudoun County 1674 01:19:34,610 --> 01:19:36,380 to protest the school's policies. 1675 01:19:36,380 --> 01:19:38,240 - So that includes limiting who can talk 1676 01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:41,090 during public comment portions of board meetings. 1677 01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:43,070 One speaker leased property in the area 1678 01:19:43,070 --> 01:19:44,840 just so he could speak tonight. 1679 01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,480 Fox 5's Perris Jones is live with the details. 1680 01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:50,067 - That's right, conservative commentator Matt Walsh told me, 1681 01:19:50,067 --> 01:19:53,330 "He's leasing out someone's basement in Loudoun County 1682 01:19:53,330 --> 01:19:56,120 so he'd be able to speak during tonight's meeting." 1683 01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,880 - I decided last week to fulfill my lifelong dream 1684 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,120 of being a, um, a Loudoun County resident. 1685 01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,270 You know, I've always felt like I've lived in Tennessee. 1686 01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:07,850 I felt sort of like a Virginian 1687 01:20:07,850 --> 01:20:09,400 trapped in a Tennessean's body. 1688 01:20:10,430 --> 01:20:11,953 I identify sort of state fluid, I guess. 1689 01:20:11,953 --> 01:20:14,000 - [Reporter] This is Matt Walsh, he tweeted, 1690 01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,073 how do you do, fellow Virginians? 1691 01:20:18,650 --> 01:20:19,973 - Now I just got explain to my wife and kids 1692 01:20:19,973 --> 01:20:22,537 that we're gonna be staying in someone's basement. 1693 01:20:22,537 --> 01:20:25,287 (brooding music) 1694 01:20:28,220 --> 01:20:30,820 They tried to muzzle me by not allowing me to speak. 1695 01:20:32,330 --> 01:20:34,310 And when that didn't work, 1696 01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:36,110 they tried to muzzle me with a mask. 1697 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:39,913 I would thank you all 1698 01:20:39,913 --> 01:20:41,060 for allowing me to speak to you tonight, 1699 01:20:41,060 --> 01:20:44,030 but you try not to allow it, yet here I am. 1700 01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:46,790 Now you only give us 60 seconds, so let me get to the point. 1701 01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:48,740 You are all child abusers. 1702 01:20:48,740 --> 01:20:51,200 You prey upon impressionable children and indoctrinate them 1703 01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:53,150 into your insane ideological cult. 1704 01:20:53,150 --> 01:20:55,430 A cult, which holds many fanatical views, 1705 01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:56,840 but none so deranged as the idea 1706 01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,210 that boys are girls and girls are boys. 1707 01:20:59,210 --> 01:21:01,310 By imposing this vial nonsense on students 1708 01:21:01,310 --> 01:21:03,200 to the point even of forcing young girls 1709 01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:04,940 to share locker rooms with boys, 1710 01:21:04,940 --> 01:21:06,830 you deprive these kids of safety and privacy, 1711 01:21:06,830 --> 01:21:10,430 and something more fundamental too, which is truth. 1712 01:21:10,430 --> 01:21:13,760 If education is not grounded in truth than it is worthless. 1713 01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:18,530 Worse, it is poison. You are poison. You are predators. 1714 01:21:18,530 --> 01:21:20,180 I can see why you tried to stop us from speaking, 1715 01:21:20,180 --> 01:21:22,640 you know that your ideas are indefensible. 1716 01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,880 You silence the opposing side because you have no argument. 1717 01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:27,950 You can only hide under your beds, 1718 01:21:27,950 --> 01:21:30,170 like pathetic little gutless cowards 1719 01:21:30,170 --> 01:21:32,293 hoping we shut up and go away. But we won't. 1720 01:21:34,220 --> 01:21:40,354 I promise you that. (dramatic music) (gentle brooding music) 1721 01:21:47,213 --> 01:21:50,873 (keys clicking) Johnny's a boy with a big imagination. 1722 01:21:52,940 --> 01:21:56,273 One day, he's a dog, the next day a crustation. 1723 01:21:59,570 --> 01:22:03,023 Johnny's mom loves her son's make-believe time. 1724 01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:08,273 You're Johnny the Walrus till you change your mind. 1725 01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:12,980 - Matt Walsh is out with a new children's book. 1726 01:22:12,980 --> 01:22:16,610 The book is called "Johnny the Walrus". What is this about? 1727 01:22:16,610 --> 01:22:20,030 - It sold out on Amazon in a few hours. 1728 01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:21,740 - So I have embraced my true calling 1729 01:22:21,740 --> 01:22:23,833 as a, as a children's author. Hence the cardigan. 1730 01:22:23,833 --> 01:22:26,240 The book is about a little boy 1731 01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:27,950 who's very imaginative and, and playful. 1732 01:22:27,950 --> 01:22:30,530 And like I have four kids and they all have an imagination. 1733 01:22:30,530 --> 01:22:32,690 - Yeah. - And he likes to pretend to be different things. 1734 01:22:32,690 --> 01:22:34,820 And one day he pretends to be a walrus. 1735 01:22:34,820 --> 01:22:36,170 And unfortunately, his mother 1736 01:22:36,170 --> 01:22:38,960 is, is very progressive and thus confused. 1737 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,720 And so she's convinced by the internet and by society 1738 01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,320 that if your child is, is identifying as something, 1739 01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,090 then he really is that thing. 1740 01:22:47,090 --> 01:22:50,690 And so she tries to raise her child as a walrus, 1741 01:22:50,690 --> 01:22:53,720 as a sort of trans walrus, respecting his self identity. 1742 01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:57,080 One morning, he came downstairs barking and clapping, 1743 01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:00,830 wood spoons for tusks, and sock fins of flapping. 1744 01:23:00,830 --> 01:23:01,790 It spoons in his mouth. 1745 01:23:01,790 --> 01:23:04,587 He's pretending to be a walrus. (group laughing) 1746 01:23:04,587 --> 01:23:07,820 "I'm Johnny the Walrus," he said with a roar. 1747 01:23:07,820 --> 01:23:14,687 - Johnny the Walrus. (speaking in foreign language) 1748 01:23:17,330 --> 01:23:20,173 - [Phil] This is a hot topic. - [Addison] Yes. 1749 01:23:20,173 --> 01:23:22,160 - [Phil] That's a good thing, right? - Yeah, absolutely. 1750 01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:23,810 It's good for us to have these conversations, 1751 01:23:23,810 --> 01:23:26,330 so people open their minds and relearn and unlearn 1752 01:23:26,330 --> 01:23:27,163 to what we've been taught. 1753 01:23:27,163 --> 01:23:30,383 - So I want this to be a safe place to talk about and learn. 1754 01:23:32,104 --> 01:23:34,430 - As you can see, there's an ongoing evolution 1755 01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:36,470 of language and how people can identify. 1756 01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:38,900 - My next guest author and conservative host 1757 01:23:38,900 --> 01:23:41,360 of Daily Wire's "The Matt Walsh Show" 1758 01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:44,180 talking about his recently published children's book 1759 01:23:44,180 --> 01:23:47,090 that has since been removed online 1760 01:23:47,090 --> 01:23:50,030 by a popular large retail chain. 1761 01:23:50,030 --> 01:23:54,320 Now Matt says, "Gender is not a social construct, 1762 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,640 but rooted firmly in biology." True? - True. 1763 01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:01,010 As human beings we have a sex, male or female, 1764 01:24:01,010 --> 01:24:03,320 that is a biological scientific fact. 1765 01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:05,600 Now gender is a linguistic term. 1766 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,280 Words have gender, people don't. 1767 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,260 You can have whatever self-perception you want, 1768 01:24:09,260 --> 01:24:13,040 but you can expect me to take part in that self-perception 1769 01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,840 or to take part in this kind of charade, 1770 01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:18,020 this theatrical production. You don't get your own pronouns, 1771 01:24:18,020 --> 01:24:18,899 just like you don't get your own prepositions 1772 01:24:18,899 --> 01:24:21,350 or your own, your own adjectives. 1773 01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:23,990 You know, it's like, if I were to tell you, 1774 01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:26,450 my adjectives are handsome and brilliant 1775 01:24:26,450 --> 01:24:28,430 and no matter whatever you're talking about me, 1776 01:24:28,430 --> 01:24:30,290 you have to describe me as handsome and brilliant 1777 01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:31,760 because that's how I identify. 1778 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,470 - So you think it's a delusion? 1779 01:24:33,470 --> 01:24:34,460 - Well, this is one of the problems 1780 01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:35,870 with this left-wing gender ideology 1781 01:24:35,870 --> 01:24:38,390 is that no one who espouses it 1782 01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:40,100 can even tell you what these words mean. 1783 01:24:40,100 --> 01:24:42,523 Like what is a woman? - Well. - Can you tell me 1784 01:24:42,523 --> 01:24:44,750 what a woman is? - No, I can't. 1785 01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:47,870 - Womanhood is something that is an umbrella term. 1786 01:24:47,870 --> 01:24:50,750 It includes people who- - [Matt] That describes what? 1787 01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:54,470 - People who identify as a woman. - What is that? 1788 01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:55,820 - What's to each their own. 1789 01:24:55,820 --> 01:24:58,160 Each woman, each man, each person 1790 01:24:58,160 --> 01:24:59,510 is gonna have a different relation 1791 01:24:59,510 --> 01:25:01,760 with their own gender identity and define it differently. 1792 01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:02,750 - That, so that's the problem. - You wanna reduce women, 1793 01:25:02,750 --> 01:25:05,660 you wanna reduce men down to maybe just their genetics, 1794 01:25:05,660 --> 01:25:07,400 our genitals. - No. - Our chromosomes, right? 1795 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:08,233 That's what you're saying. 1796 01:25:08,233 --> 01:25:09,066 - What you do is- - That's what we are- 1797 01:25:09,066 --> 01:25:11,570 - What, you, what you want to do is appropriate women. 1798 01:25:11,570 --> 01:25:14,510 You wanna appropriate womanhood. - Okay. - And turn it into 1799 01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:16,400 basically a costume that could be worn. 1800 01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,250 - Joining us on stage is Dr. Suzy D'Enbeau 1801 01:25:19,250 --> 01:25:21,920 associate professor at Kent State University. 1802 01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:27,290 Dr. D'Enbeau how do you feel those who oppose using pronouns 1803 01:25:27,290 --> 01:25:30,680 are taking the wrong approach in this conversation? 1804 01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:32,030 - There's the extreme approach 1805 01:25:32,030 --> 01:25:33,710 that you are admittedly taking. 1806 01:25:33,710 --> 01:25:36,020 Um, and then there's also just ordinary people 1807 01:25:36,020 --> 01:25:38,930 that might not be comfortable with the language change. 1808 01:25:38,930 --> 01:25:41,210 - She began by saying that my view is extreme. 1809 01:25:41,210 --> 01:25:44,210 Okay, so the view that every single person on earth 1810 01:25:44,210 --> 01:25:46,280 has held up until 15 seconds ago is extreme. 1811 01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,860 They are conflating gender and sex because on one hand, 1812 01:25:48,860 --> 01:25:50,840 they say, well, you got your biological sex, 1813 01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,270 but then your gender is whatever social construct. 1814 01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:54,103 But then they turn around 1815 01:25:54,103 --> 01:25:56,360 and say that trans women are women. 1816 01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,640 So a man who, who, who identifies 1817 01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:00,170 with the, with the, the gender, 1818 01:26:00,170 --> 01:26:03,650 the social construct of womanhood actually is a woman. 1819 01:26:03,650 --> 01:26:06,350 - Part of me wants to ask why you care so much because- 1820 01:26:06,350 --> 01:26:08,413 - Right. - It's really not that big of a deal. 1821 01:26:08,413 --> 01:26:10,880 - Can I answer that? I care about the truth. 1822 01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:12,470 So, so basic truth matters. 1823 01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:13,602 I wanna live in a society where people- 1824 01:26:13,602 --> 01:26:14,450 - Okay, fine. - Care about the truth. 1825 01:26:14,450 --> 01:26:16,827 Um, I care about children and this, these insane ideas- 1826 01:26:16,827 --> 01:26:18,650 - I do too. - About gender are being, 1827 01:26:18,650 --> 01:26:20,660 are being foist on kids. 1828 01:26:20,660 --> 01:26:23,090 Um, and that, that bothers me quite a bit. 1829 01:26:23,090 --> 01:26:23,990 I care about the women 1830 01:26:23,990 --> 01:26:26,630 who are having their opportunities stolen from them. 1831 01:26:26,630 --> 01:26:30,920 I care quite a bit, yeah. - I wanted us to have a safe place 1832 01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:32,450 to be able to talk about this. 1833 01:26:32,450 --> 01:26:35,690 And it seems like we should just keep the dialogue going 1834 01:26:35,690 --> 01:26:38,963 and, and hopefully find some middle ground. 1835 01:26:40,659 --> 01:26:44,326 (slow tempo brooding music) 1836 01:26:52,825 --> 01:26:55,575 (dramatic music) 1837 01:26:58,315 --> 01:27:01,648 (gentle brooding music) 1838 01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:18,740 - What do you say to parents? 1839 01:27:18,740 --> 01:27:20,780 A parent comes to you and says, 1840 01:27:20,780 --> 01:27:24,440 my eight-year-old son is telling me he's a girl. 1841 01:27:24,440 --> 01:27:25,370 - Yeah, great. 1842 01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:27,740 You're gonna have him do an experimental procedure 1843 01:27:27,740 --> 01:27:29,690 that creates the most suicidal ideation 1844 01:27:29,690 --> 01:27:30,830 of any other population 1845 01:27:30,830 --> 01:27:33,800 seven to 10 years after, you know, transition. 1846 01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,660 And here's what I tell parents, 1847 01:27:35,660 --> 01:27:40,660 you don't have the right to medically transition your child. 1848 01:27:42,590 --> 01:27:46,880 - We have no research on long-term hormone use. 1849 01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,130 We will be seeing the first generation 1850 01:27:49,130 --> 01:27:51,260 of long-term hormone use. 1851 01:27:51,260 --> 01:27:54,470 And we already know, at least with 10 years of hormones 1852 01:27:54,470 --> 01:27:56,003 you're giving yourself cancer. 1853 01:27:57,290 --> 01:27:58,280 - [Matt] What's your message to parents 1854 01:27:58,280 --> 01:27:59,870 who are trying to cope with this? 1855 01:27:59,870 --> 01:28:01,430 - [Man] The first thing is to tell parents 1856 01:28:01,430 --> 01:28:04,340 that they're not alone. It is our responsibility as a parent 1857 01:28:04,340 --> 01:28:06,320 to be the frontline defense for our children. 1858 01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:07,820 And, and I know with my child, 1859 01:28:07,820 --> 01:28:10,250 a lot of people will say, was it worth it 1860 01:28:10,250 --> 01:28:12,920 'cause you now seemingly have lost your child? 1861 01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,320 And I'll say, yeah, but at least I've saved my conscience, 1862 01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:16,910 and my morals, and my convictions. 1863 01:28:16,910 --> 01:28:18,740 And when my child turns 25 and says, 1864 01:28:18,740 --> 01:28:21,050 Dad, where were you? I'll say I was there. 1865 01:28:21,050 --> 01:28:22,520 I was fighting as hard as I could. 1866 01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:24,420 I was not prepared to let this happen. 1867 01:28:32,780 --> 01:28:36,320 - Does this really matter is, is another question so? 1868 01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,070 - Matters for those who are getting double mastectomies 1869 01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,393 when they're 16. - Why should we care 1870 01:28:43,393 --> 01:28:45,570 if we live in a society where gender is fluid? 1871 01:28:45,570 --> 01:28:47,960 - Well, I cared because my government decided 1872 01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:50,900 that I had to call people by the terms that they were, 1873 01:28:50,900 --> 01:28:54,560 that they designated or I'd be subject to legal penalties. 1874 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,373 It's like, no, I'm not doing that. 1875 01:28:59,416 --> 01:29:01,880 I don't care what your reason is. 1876 01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:03,920 You don't get control of my tongue. 1877 01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:08,360 - We live in a climate now in which no one seems to care 1878 01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:11,090 about the safety of women and girls who are going through 1879 01:29:11,090 --> 01:29:13,850 a very developmentally challenging time in their lives. 1880 01:29:13,850 --> 01:29:16,970 They may not want to share spaces with their male peers. 1881 01:29:16,970 --> 01:29:19,040 I would not be surprised in a few years, 1882 01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,530 there will no longer be women's sports. 1883 01:29:21,530 --> 01:29:25,490 It will literally be men's sports and transgender sports. 1884 01:29:25,490 --> 01:29:27,560 - The question being asked by the trans person 1885 01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,560 is, is a legitimate one, how can I be happy? 1886 01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:35,000 The answer being given by having my body transformed 1887 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:36,350 to look like the other gender, 1888 01:29:36,350 --> 01:29:39,110 by having myself pumped full of hormones, 1889 01:29:39,110 --> 01:29:42,230 clearly isn't working, and we have to find a better 1890 01:29:42,230 --> 01:29:45,080 and the more humane way of dealing with individuals 1891 01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:46,970 who are struggling with gender dysphoria. 1892 01:29:46,970 --> 01:29:51,170 - I have the utmost compassion 1893 01:29:51,170 --> 01:29:53,960 for people who suffer from gender dysphoria. 1894 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,680 It's a nightmare for them and their families. 1895 01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:01,160 The vast majority, up to 90% of kids 1896 01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:05,240 if they go through a normal puberty, they're gonna be okay. 1897 01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:07,340 They will be at peace with their bodies, 1898 01:30:07,340 --> 01:30:09,920 and they will have avoided dangerous 1899 01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:14,390 and experimental medical interventions and surgeries. 1900 01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:16,280 - [Man] Maybe we're up against a battle here 1901 01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:18,623 up against a hill that perhaps, 1902 01:30:19,460 --> 01:30:22,280 you know, we're not gonna necessarily win today, 1903 01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:25,160 but if we don't pave the way for a win, 1904 01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:26,333 we'll never get there. 1905 01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:31,460 - So we're going on this journey, 1906 01:30:31,460 --> 01:30:33,590 boys can be girls, girls can be boys, 1907 01:30:33,590 --> 01:30:35,930 men can be women, women can be men. 1908 01:30:35,930 --> 01:30:41,120 It makes me wonder what, what is a woman? - What is a woman? 1909 01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:45,110 A woman is someone who claims that is their identity. 1910 01:30:45,110 --> 01:30:47,270 It could be many things to many people. 1911 01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:49,790 - I think the question really brings up 1912 01:30:49,790 --> 01:30:52,310 the, the fact that it is pretty relative, right? 1913 01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:56,780 That if you ask women across race, across identities, 1914 01:30:56,780 --> 01:30:59,963 across class, across culture, 1915 01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:02,180 you will get a different answer. 1916 01:31:02,180 --> 01:31:04,850 - Some of it is, you know, based on biology, 1917 01:31:04,850 --> 01:31:06,500 some of it is based on hormones. 1918 01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:09,080 Some of it, it is based on what you wear 1919 01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:11,030 and, and how you present yourself. 1920 01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:12,920 - A woman is not anything in particular. 1921 01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:14,750 It's not, there's no one particular thing. 1922 01:31:14,750 --> 01:31:16,820 - There is not one particular thing. 1923 01:31:16,820 --> 01:31:20,750 - A woman is someone who says that she is a woman 1924 01:31:20,750 --> 01:31:23,913 and transitions to be a woman. - Who says that she's what? 1925 01:31:25,423 --> 01:31:30,423 Can you define the word woman without using the word woman? 1926 01:31:33,162 --> 01:31:34,550 - I mean that's actually kind of like, 1927 01:31:34,550 --> 01:31:36,743 it's a curious question, but I. 1928 01:31:43,250 --> 01:31:45,020 - We've been journeying across the country 1929 01:31:45,020 --> 01:31:46,370 asking people this question, 1930 01:31:46,370 --> 01:31:47,970 and almost nobody can answer it. 1931 01:31:49,580 --> 01:31:51,583 - What is a woman? - [Matt] What is a woman? 1932 01:31:51,583 --> 01:31:52,733 - Marry one and find out. 1933 01:31:54,206 --> 01:31:56,840 Mm-hmm. - So I should go home and ask my wife, I guess. 1934 01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:01,019 - Yeah. (gentle music) (plane engine humming) 1935 01:32:02,614 --> 01:32:05,447 (water splashing) 1936 01:32:08,060 --> 01:32:10,613 - Hey, I've been meaning to ask you something. 1937 01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:12,313 - Uh-huh. 1938 01:32:15,467 --> 01:32:16,967 - What is a woman? 1939 01:32:22,010 --> 01:32:27,010 - An adult human female who needs help opening this? 1940 01:32:27,338 --> 01:32:30,505 (gentle upbeat music) 1941 01:32:33,230 --> 01:32:35,480 (lid pops) 1942 01:32:37,139 --> 01:32:41,481 (slow tempo gentle music) (Matt chuckles) 1943 01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,463 (upbeat music) 1944 01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:10,433 - Can you provide a definition for the word woman? 1945 01:33:11,660 --> 01:33:14,093 - Can I provide a definition? - Mm-hmm, yeah. 1946 01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:17,383 - I can't. - You can't? 1947 01:33:19,550 --> 01:33:21,523 - Not in this- - Okay. - Context. - So you believe- 1948 01:33:21,523 --> 01:33:23,300 - I'm not a biologist. - The meaning of the word 1949 01:33:23,300 --> 01:33:25,850 woman is so unclear and controversial 1950 01:33:25,850 --> 01:33:29,000 that you can't give me a definition. 1951 01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,760 - Senator, in my work as a judge, 1952 01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:36,170 what I do is I address disputes. 1953 01:33:36,170 --> 01:33:39,320 If there's a dispute about a definition, 1954 01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,473 people make arguments, and I look at the law- 1955 01:33:41,473 --> 01:33:44,390 - All right. - And I decide. - Well- - So I'm not. 1956 01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:49,040 - The fact that you can't give me a straight answer 1957 01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:53,300 about something as fundamental as what a woman is 1958 01:33:53,300 --> 01:33:58,280 underscores the dangers of the kind of progressive education 1959 01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:00,920 that we are hearing about. 1960 01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:05,750 Just last week, an entire generation of young girls 1961 01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:09,650 watched as our taxpayer funded institutions, 1962 01:34:09,650 --> 01:34:11,900 permitted a biological man 1963 01:34:11,900 --> 01:34:15,530 to compete and beat a biological woman 1964 01:34:15,530 --> 01:34:18,650 in the NCAA swimming championships. 1965 01:34:18,650 --> 01:34:21,890 What message do you think this sends to girls 1966 01:34:21,890 --> 01:34:26,060 who aspire to compete and win in sports 1967 01:34:26,060 --> 01:34:27,743 at the highest levels? 1968 01:34:30,230 --> 01:34:33,530 - Senator, I'm not sure what message that sends. 1969 01:34:33,530 --> 01:34:34,460 If, if you're asking me 1970 01:34:34,460 --> 01:34:36,833 about the legal issues related to it, 1971 01:34:38,450 --> 01:34:42,050 those are topics that are being hotly discussed, 1972 01:34:42,050 --> 01:34:45,073 as you say, and- - Right. - Could come to the court.