1
00:01:13,865 --> 00:01:16,833
- Hey. Bob, what's up?
- <i>Hi. Listen.</i>

2
00:01:16,835 --> 00:01:20,236
<i>According to an unconfirmed report,
David Wallace is dead.</i>

3
00:01:20,238 --> 00:01:23,505
What? No.
No, no, no.

4
00:01:23,507 --> 00:01:27,141
No, It must be some sort of a
college prank or something.

5
00:01:27,143 --> 00:01:32,212
<i>Well, I thought if anybody knew whether
it was true or not, it'd be you.</i>

6
00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:39,419
<i>Now a remembrance of writer
David Foster Wallace.</i>

7
00:01:39,421 --> 00:01:43,822
<i>He was found dead,
an apparent suicide, on Friday night.</i>

8
00:01:43,824 --> 00:01:46,891
<i>Wallace's novel,</i> Infinite Jest,
<i>brought him fame...</i>

9
00:01:46,893 --> 00:01:48,192
and a wide audience.

10
00:01:48,194 --> 00:01:50,760
Writer David Lipsky
has this appreciation.

11
00:01:54,065 --> 00:01:58,366
"To read David Foster Wallace was
to feel your eyelids pulled open.

12
00:01:59,901 --> 00:02:03,703
<i>Some writers specialize in the
'away from home' experience.</i>

13
00:02:03,705 --> 00:02:07,806
<i>They have safaried,
eaten across Italy, covered a war.</i>

14
00:02:09,308 --> 00:02:12,310
<i>Wallace offered
his alive self,</i>

15
00:02:12,312 --> 00:02:14,312
<i>cutting through
our sleepy aquarium,</i>

16
00:02:14,314 --> 00:02:18,282
<i>our standard TV, stores,
political campaigns.</i>

17
00:02:20,551 --> 00:02:24,186
<i>Writers who can do this--
like Salinger and Fitzgerald--</i>

18
00:02:24,188 --> 00:02:26,955
<i>forge an unbreakable bond
with readers.</i>

19
00:02:26,957 --> 00:02:31,091
<i>You didn't slip into the books
looking for a story, information,</i>

20
00:02:31,093 --> 00:02:34,127
<i>but for a particular
experience--</i>

21
00:02:34,129 --> 00:02:37,296
<i>the sensation,
for a certain number of pages,</i>

22
00:02:37,298 --> 00:02:40,565
<i>of being David Foster Wallace."</i>

23
00:02:44,969 --> 00:02:48,204
<i>If anything, there was
a conscious attempt...</i>

24
00:02:48,206 --> 00:02:50,773
<i>to not give overt direction,</i>

25
00:02:50,775 --> 00:02:53,375
<i>although, of course,
you end up becoming yourself.</i>

26
00:02:54,744 --> 00:02:56,711
<i>Did they want you
to be a writer or no?</i>

27
00:02:56,713 --> 00:02:58,979
<i>No. I was gonna be-- The big thing,
when I was little--</i>

28
00:02:58,981 --> 00:03:01,548
<i>I was-- I was, like, a really serious jock.
Really?</i>

29
00:03:01,550 --> 00:03:03,616
<i>Yeah. I played
citywide football as a kid.</i>

30
00:03:03,618 --> 00:03:06,685
<i>I was really big,
really strong as a kid.</i>

31
00:03:06,687 --> 00:03:10,055
<i>And then for four or five years,
I was gonna be, like, a pro tennis player.</i>

32
00:03:10,057 --> 00:03:11,990
<i>That was my great dream.</i>

33
00:03:11,992 --> 00:03:13,691
<i>Reading was just
this kind of fun,</i>

34
00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:16,393
<i>sort of weird thing
that I did on the side.</i>

35
00:03:25,368 --> 00:03:27,068
"I didn't understand SoHo--

36
00:03:27,070 --> 00:03:31,271
the warehouses, the old buildings,
the cobbled streets.

37
00:03:31,273 --> 00:03:35,207
It wasn't the Upper East Side,
and it was dirty.

38
00:03:36,776 --> 00:03:38,276
I felt marooned.

39
00:03:38,278 --> 00:03:42,013
Our mother had taken us off the
track of the nice life we'd been on.

40
00:03:42,015 --> 00:03:45,116
She'd moored us in a creepy cul-de-sac
with her art-world friends.

41
00:03:45,118 --> 00:03:47,818
<i>None of the kids in my school
had parents in the art world.</i>

42
00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:49,719
<i>It made me feel different,</i>

43
00:03:49,721 --> 00:03:51,654
<i>like there was something
I had to cover up."</i>

44
00:03:53,357 --> 00:03:55,290
It was great.
Sorry I missed it.

45
00:03:55,292 --> 00:03:57,558
Don't worry about it.

46
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,826
Hey. I heard you got
that<i> Rolling Stone</i> job.

47
00:03:59,828 --> 00:04:02,829
We'll see. I'm sort of on probation.
Good luck.

48
00:04:02,831 --> 00:04:05,431
Did you see Kirn's review
in<i> New York</i> magazine?

49
00:04:05,433 --> 00:04:07,699
The guy's been
fuckin' canonized.

50
00:04:07,701 --> 00:04:08,933
Sorry. Who's this?

51
00:04:08,935 --> 00:04:10,935
David Foster Wallace.

52
00:04:10,937 --> 00:04:13,404
"Next year's book awards have been decided."
Can you believe this?

53
00:04:13,406 --> 00:04:16,907
"The plaques and citations can now be
put into escrow." It's unbelievable.

54
00:04:16,909 --> 00:04:19,309
"With<i> Infinite Jest,</i>
by David Foster Wallace,

55
00:04:19,311 --> 00:04:23,779
a plutonium-dense, satirical quiz-kid opus
that runs to almost a thousand"-- What?

56
00:04:23,781 --> 00:04:26,815
"a thousand pages,
not including footnotes,

57
00:04:26,817 --> 00:04:28,616
the competition
has been obliterated.

58
00:04:28,618 --> 00:04:31,218
It's as though Paul Bunyan
had joined the NFL...

59
00:04:31,220 --> 00:04:33,220
or Wittgenstein
had gone onto<i> Jeopardy!.</i>

60
00:04:33,222 --> 00:04:36,389
The novel is that colossally disruptive
and that spectacularly good."

61
00:04:36,391 --> 00:04:38,758
That's the fucking
opening paragraph.

62
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,593
What if it actually
is that good?

63
00:04:42,595 --> 00:04:45,330
You might just
have to read it.

64
00:04:56,608 --> 00:04:57,941
Shit.

65
00:04:57,943 --> 00:04:59,676
Good piece.
Thanks a lot.

66
00:05:01,145 --> 00:05:02,879
Solid piece.
I'm fine with it.

67
00:05:02,881 --> 00:05:04,980
But you gotta clear it
with Legal, okay?

68
00:05:07,316 --> 00:05:09,917
How many times have we interviewed
a writer in the last 10 years?

69
00:05:09,919 --> 00:05:12,753
Take a guess.

70
00:05:12,755 --> 00:05:14,087
Uh, how many?

71
00:05:14,089 --> 00:05:16,622
Zero. I checked.

72
00:05:16,624 --> 00:05:18,523
Maybe because<i> Rolling Stone</i>
doesn't interview writers.

73
00:05:19,725 --> 00:05:22,293
There hasn't been a writer
like this. Okay?

74
00:05:22,295 --> 00:05:25,696
Once in a generation maybe.
Hemingway, Pynchon.

75
00:05:25,698 --> 00:05:28,198
Let me have this story.
What story?

76
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,267
He's finishing up a book tour,
and I want to go with him.

77
00:05:31,269 --> 00:05:32,901
That's not a story.

78
00:05:32,903 --> 00:05:36,437
He teaches at some small state
university somewhere in Illinois.

79
00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:38,405
Please, Bob.
Send me there.

80
00:05:38,407 --> 00:05:42,375
This is the sort of stuff I should be doing,
not 500 words on boy bands.

81
00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:45,944
Talk to Jann.

82
00:05:58,590 --> 00:06:00,990
There better be a story there.

83
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,461
There will be.
There better.

84
00:07:38,516 --> 00:07:41,550
David, hi. It's David Lipsky.
<i>Where are you?</i>

85
00:07:41,552 --> 00:07:43,919
I think I may have made
a wrong turn somewhere.

86
00:07:43,921 --> 00:07:46,421
Let's see. I am on
County Highway 29...

87
00:07:46,423 --> 00:07:49,023
just across
from the Circus Video.

88
00:07:49,025 --> 00:07:50,958
<i>How'd you get this number?</i>

89
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,661
Your publicist sent it
in her e-mail, just in case.

90
00:07:54,663 --> 00:07:57,797
<i>You'd do me a favor
by losing it.</i>

91
00:08:49,180 --> 00:08:51,947
Stay. Be calm.
Be calm. Stay.

92
00:08:54,750 --> 00:08:57,251
Hey. You made it.
Yeah.

93
00:08:57,253 --> 00:08:58,852
Dave. Dave Wallace.

94
00:08:58,854 --> 00:09:01,454
David Lipsky. Hi.
It's a pleasure.

95
00:09:01,456 --> 00:09:03,622
Likewise.

96
00:09:03,624 --> 00:09:06,057
Um, I'm sorry about
the, uh-- the phone call.

97
00:09:06,059 --> 00:09:07,224
No, you're fine.

98
00:09:07,226 --> 00:09:11,127
It was 95% joke.
Right, right. Yeah.

99
00:09:11,129 --> 00:09:14,396
Sorry in advance about the dogs.
They'll be slobbering all over you.

100
00:09:14,398 --> 00:09:16,164
I don't mind at all.
I love dogs.

101
00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:19,300
Oh, yeah? You haven't met these guys yet.
No, I love 'em.

102
00:09:19,302 --> 00:09:22,703
Let's, uh-- Oh, Jesus.
Let's get inside. It's cold.

103
00:09:22,705 --> 00:09:25,505
Boys. Get in there.
Thanks a lot.

104
00:09:25,507 --> 00:09:27,773
Ooh. Come on.
Come on, buddy.

105
00:09:27,775 --> 00:09:29,908
Wait. I'm very glad to meet you too.
Good dog.

106
00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:32,510
Who's that?
Oh, that's Jeeves.

107
00:09:32,512 --> 00:09:35,145
Hi. Yeah,
that's the Jeeve-meister.

108
00:09:35,147 --> 00:09:37,480
I got him 'cause he was so ugly.
Nobody else wanted him.

109
00:09:37,482 --> 00:09:39,148
Now he's, like,
a cover girl dog.

110
00:09:39,150 --> 00:09:41,483
And that's Drone.
That's my provisional dog.

111
00:09:41,485 --> 00:09:43,918
Why? Why provisional?

112
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,287
He just showed up one day while
Jeeves and I were out jogging.

113
00:09:46,289 --> 00:09:48,889
The rest is history.

114
00:09:48,891 --> 00:09:51,758
I feel like I should
offer you tea or something.

115
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,694
Yeah. Yeah, thanks.
That'd be great. Yeah? Okay.

116
00:10:12,277 --> 00:10:14,578
Nice view.

117
00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:17,980
Thank you.
I can't take credit for it.

118
00:10:17,982 --> 00:10:19,848
Huh.

119
00:10:22,551 --> 00:10:26,120
So, um, have you
always been unlisted?

120
00:10:27,422 --> 00:10:30,457
I had to do that recently.
It was getting kind of crazy.

121
00:10:30,459 --> 00:10:32,926
Oh. Because of--
Because of fans.

122
00:10:32,928 --> 00:10:35,461
I don't know if "fan"
is exactly the right word.

123
00:10:35,463 --> 00:10:39,131
I think what happened was I had forgotten to
tell my parents not to give my number out.

124
00:10:39,133 --> 00:10:41,700
So it was people who had
tracked my parents down.

125
00:10:41,702 --> 00:10:44,903
I have this terrible problem.
I really hate to hurt people's feelings.

126
00:10:44,905 --> 00:10:48,072
Mmm, right.
So I did somethin' kind of cowardly.

127
00:10:48,074 --> 00:10:52,109
No. I don't think unlisting your
number is cowardly. Kind of is.

128
00:10:52,111 --> 00:10:54,878
I changed my number so these
folks couldn't find me anymore.

129
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,112
Right.

130
00:10:56,114 --> 00:10:58,547
There was this computer
operator from Vancouver.

131
00:10:58,549 --> 00:11:00,081
He was living in a
basement or something.

132
00:11:00,083 --> 00:11:03,883
I found him very moving.
He was in terrible, terrible pain.

133
00:11:03,885 --> 00:11:05,818
What did he want
from you?

134
00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:08,787
It's unclear.
And when I would, sorta like, ask him,

135
00:11:08,789 --> 00:11:11,956
that's when he would get angry,
and then it got scary.

136
00:11:11,958 --> 00:11:15,325
Right. What-What is this?
Who's the artist?

137
00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:19,228
That's my friend's daughter.
Calls me chicken head.

138
00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:20,963
I call her chicken head.

139
00:11:20,965 --> 00:11:23,598
It's her latest salvo
in the war.

140
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,834
Um, that's funny.
Would you mind if I--

141
00:11:26,836 --> 00:11:29,369
No. Do what you gotta do.
Thank you.

142
00:11:36,543 --> 00:11:41,412
Listen, before we start putting stuff
on tape, I need to ask you something.

143
00:11:41,414 --> 00:11:45,015
I need to know that anything that I
say five minutes later not to put in,

144
00:11:45,017 --> 00:11:47,283
that you're not
gonna put it in.

145
00:11:47,917 --> 00:11:49,918
Absolutely.

146
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,021
Just given my level of fatigue
and my fuckup quotient lately,

147
00:11:53,023 --> 00:11:56,391
it's the only way I can see doin'
it and not-- not going crazy.

148
00:11:56,393 --> 00:11:58,359
No. I completely understand.

149
00:12:00,329 --> 00:12:02,361
It's right back on, huh?
Mmm.

150
00:12:04,097 --> 00:12:06,731
Uh, you agreed
to the interview.

151
00:12:12,770 --> 00:12:14,904
So this
is your road, huh?

152
00:12:14,906 --> 00:12:16,739
Yeah, this is
my road.

153
00:12:16,741 --> 00:12:19,441
You're gonna have to tell me where to turn.
I'm used to a grid system.

154
00:12:19,443 --> 00:12:21,276
This is all new
territory for me.

155
00:12:21,278 --> 00:12:24,412
Fair enough.
You just go straight for about a mile.

156
00:12:24,414 --> 00:12:26,514
There'll be signs for
the school on the right.

157
00:12:26,516 --> 00:12:29,283
Got it. Do you like
teaching there?

158
00:12:29,285 --> 00:12:32,619
I do. Yeah, very much.
Which is what's so fucked.

159
00:12:32,621 --> 00:12:35,455
I feel so bad for these kids.
Why do you feel bad for them?

160
00:12:35,457 --> 00:12:37,957
They have the greatest
writing teacher in the world.

161
00:12:37,959 --> 00:12:41,093
If I was there, maybe.
The whole fuss--

162
00:12:41,095 --> 00:12:42,661
it's taken me out of school
for the past two weeks.

163
00:12:42,663 --> 00:12:44,396
And we gotta leave
again tomorrow.

164
00:12:44,398 --> 00:12:47,065
We gotta be up at the crack
of dawn to go to the airport.

165
00:12:47,067 --> 00:12:50,168
Oh, shit. Do we really?
That's what you signed on for, man.

166
00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:52,503
You're welcome to stick around and
write an article about my dogs.

167
00:12:52,505 --> 00:12:55,839
No, that's just fine.
Might be more interesting. I promise you.

168
00:12:55,841 --> 00:12:58,908
Do yourself a favor.
Don't expect any fireworks in there.

169
00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:00,776
I'm sure you're gonna
be just fine.

170
00:13:00,778 --> 00:13:02,978
Campus-romance story.

171
00:13:02,980 --> 00:13:05,947
Ah! I gotta tell you guys,

172
00:13:05,949 --> 00:13:09,083
the average citizen is not gonna
find it that interesting.

173
00:13:09,085 --> 00:13:11,685
The great dread of creative
writing professors?

174
00:13:11,687 --> 00:13:16,322
"Their eyes met over the keg."

175
00:13:16,324 --> 00:13:18,724
I just want my narrator to be
funny and smart, you know?

176
00:13:18,726 --> 00:13:20,192
I know, I know.
I get it.

177
00:13:20,194 --> 00:13:22,494
You want your narrator
to be funny and smart.

178
00:13:22,496 --> 00:13:24,062
Here's a tip.

179
00:13:24,064 --> 00:13:26,964
Have him say funny, smart things
some of the time.

180
00:13:26,966 --> 00:13:28,131
Thank you.

181
00:13:28,133 --> 00:13:29,665
You did a good job.
Thank you.

182
00:13:29,667 --> 00:13:32,601
Um, all right, who's next?
Melissa.

183
00:13:32,603 --> 00:13:34,970
I'm normally a much better
teacher than that, I swear.

184
00:13:34,972 --> 00:13:37,539
I thought you were great and
that they obviously love you.

185
00:13:37,541 --> 00:13:38,907
Oh, yeah?
Do you think?

186
00:13:38,909 --> 00:13:41,276
Yeah, come on,
you know they do.

187
00:13:41,278 --> 00:13:42,877
You hungry?

188
00:13:46,181 --> 00:13:47,814
<i>And what can I
get you to drink?</i>

189
00:13:47,816 --> 00:13:51,951
I'll just have, like,
a giant Diet Rite, please.

190
00:13:51,953 --> 00:13:53,886
You know what,
I'll have the same thing.

191
00:13:53,888 --> 00:13:56,021
I'll be right back with your pop.
Thanks, man.

192
00:13:58,558 --> 00:14:01,058
Oh. Uh, can I, uh--

193
00:14:02,927 --> 00:14:06,062
Do you mind if I--
One second.

194
00:14:07,565 --> 00:14:11,065
Uh--

195
00:14:12,767 --> 00:14:14,901
You don't drink.

196
00:14:18,705 --> 00:14:20,505
Is that a question to me?

197
00:14:20,507 --> 00:14:22,773
No. No, it's an observation.

198
00:14:22,775 --> 00:14:26,176
Ah, I see. No, I know.
No, I do not drink.

199
00:14:26,178 --> 00:14:28,411
You can order whatever you want though.
Go right ahead.

200
00:14:28,413 --> 00:14:29,812
No, no. That's fine.

201
00:14:29,814 --> 00:14:32,714
I have a lot of friends who have
been through the program, so--

202
00:14:32,716 --> 00:14:35,083
They always tell me that
they're uncomfortable...

203
00:14:35,085 --> 00:14:37,518
with people drinking
right in front of them.

204
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,386
So I just--
Ah.

205
00:14:40,788 --> 00:14:45,224
I mean, out of respect, I--
I got what you got.

206
00:14:45,226 --> 00:14:49,694
I'm not any sort of authority
on any sort of program.

207
00:14:49,696 --> 00:14:52,163
From my very limited
outside understanding,

208
00:14:52,165 --> 00:14:54,165
for people who have been
in it a while,

209
00:14:54,167 --> 00:14:57,401
you could snort cocaine off the back
of your hand, they'd be all right.

210
00:14:57,403 --> 00:14:59,336
Right. Right. Right.

211
00:15:00,504 --> 00:15:02,505
You know what I would love to do, man?
What's that?

212
00:15:02,507 --> 00:15:06,141
I would love to do a profile on one of
you guys who's doin' a profile on me.

213
00:15:06,143 --> 00:15:08,443
That is interesting.
Is that too pomo and cute?

214
00:15:08,445 --> 00:15:09,944
Maybe for<i> Rolling Stone.</i>

215
00:15:09,946 --> 00:15:13,180
It would be interesting though.
You think?

216
00:15:13,182 --> 00:15:15,549
I'm sorry, man.
What's wrong?

217
00:15:15,551 --> 00:15:18,818
It's just you're gonna go back to
New York and sit at your desk...

218
00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:21,654
and shape this thing
however you want.

219
00:15:21,656 --> 00:15:23,822
To me, it's just
extremely disturbing.

220
00:15:23,824 --> 00:15:25,657
Why is it disturbing?

221
00:15:25,659 --> 00:15:29,527
Because I think I would like to shape the
impression of me that's coming across.

222
00:15:29,529 --> 00:15:31,962
I don't even know
if I like you yet.

223
00:15:31,964 --> 00:15:34,364
I'm so nervous about
whether you like me.

224
00:15:34,366 --> 00:15:35,932
Here you go.

225
00:15:35,934 --> 00:15:37,800
Your food will be out soon.
Can I get you anything else?

226
00:15:37,802 --> 00:15:40,269
No, we're fine.
Thank you. Thanks.

227
00:15:40,271 --> 00:15:42,204
Um--

228
00:15:42,206 --> 00:15:44,639
What's this story about
in your mind?

229
00:15:44,641 --> 00:15:46,641
What does Jann want?

230
00:15:46,643 --> 00:15:49,210
Just what it's like to be the most
talked about writer in the country...

231
00:15:49,212 --> 00:15:51,979
or that sort of thing.
Right.

232
00:15:51,981 --> 00:15:54,247
Which makes it sound--

233
00:15:54,249 --> 00:15:56,182
How do you learn
to do this stuff?

234
00:15:56,184 --> 00:15:58,884
Do what?
The interviewing.

235
00:15:58,886 --> 00:16:01,019
Does one go
to interviewing school?

236
00:16:01,021 --> 00:16:03,488
Yes, I went to eight years
of interviewing school.

237
00:16:03,490 --> 00:16:05,022
So you got a master's?
I did.

238
00:16:05,024 --> 00:16:09,526
Um, no. No, I'm--
I'm a writer.

239
00:16:09,528 --> 00:16:11,628
Uh, okay.
Great. Yeah.

240
00:16:11,630 --> 00:16:13,997
I mean I write fiction
as well. I--

241
00:16:15,132 --> 00:16:16,799
I just had a novel
published actually.

242
00:16:16,801 --> 00:16:19,468
Great.
Yeah.

243
00:16:19,470 --> 00:16:21,069
What's-- What's that called?

244
00:16:21,071 --> 00:16:23,871
<i>The Art Fair.
The Art Fair.</i> Great.

245
00:16:26,441 --> 00:16:29,910
And I had a collection
published a few years ago, so--

246
00:16:29,912 --> 00:16:31,745
You're, like,
a nervous guy, huh?

247
00:16:31,747 --> 00:16:35,014
No, no. No, I'm okay. How are you?
I-- 'Cos I'm terrified.

248
00:16:35,016 --> 00:16:36,915
Are you? Yes.
You're not alone in this.

249
00:16:36,917 --> 00:16:38,483
Okay.
We'll do this together.

250
00:16:38,485 --> 00:16:41,118
No, I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Yeah.

251
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,620
The thing about the tour
is, yes,

252
00:16:43,622 --> 00:16:46,255
I would like to get laid
off of it a couple of times.

253
00:16:46,257 --> 00:16:48,790
People come up.
They kind of, like, slither up.

254
00:16:48,792 --> 00:16:50,958
And it seems like--
I don't know.

255
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,226
What I want is not to have
to take any action.

256
00:16:53,228 --> 00:16:56,429
What kind of action?
I don't want to have to say, like,

257
00:16:56,431 --> 00:16:58,197
"Do you want to come
back to the hotel?"

258
00:16:58,199 --> 00:17:00,866
I want them to say,
"I am coming back to your hotel."

259
00:17:00,868 --> 00:17:04,402
"Where is your hotel?"
That would be easier for you, wouldn't it?

260
00:17:04,404 --> 00:17:07,438
I can't stand to look like I'm
actively trading off this sexually.

261
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,773
Which, of course,
I'd be happy to do.

262
00:17:09,775 --> 00:17:12,275
I think, in retrospect,
I'm probably very lucky that I didn't.

263
00:17:12,277 --> 00:17:13,976
Lucky? Why?

264
00:17:13,978 --> 00:17:16,545
It just would have made me feel lonely.
You know?

265
00:17:16,547 --> 00:17:18,013
Lonely? How so?

266
00:17:18,015 --> 00:17:20,048
It wouldn't have had
anything to do with me.

267
00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:22,650
I think it would have
been... just--

268
00:17:22,652 --> 00:17:25,352
Your fame?
Yeah. Whatever.

269
00:17:25,354 --> 00:17:26,886
Your fame. You can say it.
Fine, fine.

270
00:17:26,888 --> 00:17:29,221
You're famous.
Okay, whatever.

271
00:17:29,223 --> 00:17:32,257
You are. Except, though,
if they're responding to your work...

272
00:17:32,259 --> 00:17:33,524
and your work
is really personal,

273
00:17:33,526 --> 00:17:35,893
then reading you is another
way of meeting you.

274
00:17:35,895 --> 00:17:37,794
Isn't that right?

275
00:17:37,796 --> 00:17:39,328
That's so good.
Thank you.

276
00:17:39,330 --> 00:17:41,663
This piece will be excellent
if it's mostly you.

277
00:17:41,665 --> 00:17:44,298
Talk all you want, man.
Save me a whole lot of trouble.

278
00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:56,540
Wow! So this is what
a real car feels like.

279
00:17:56,542 --> 00:17:59,576
The one I got is like riding
around on a power lawn mower.

280
00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:01,611
You know?

281
00:18:01,613 --> 00:18:04,246
Do you think being handsome has
anything to do with your success?

282
00:18:05,781 --> 00:18:07,515
- What?
- No, you're photogenic.

283
00:18:07,517 --> 00:18:09,750
You look good in your author's photo.
Come on.

284
00:18:09,752 --> 00:18:13,987
You have to come put me down if
I even start thinking that way.

285
00:18:13,989 --> 00:18:16,489
Thinking what way? What,
about how books are sold?

286
00:18:16,491 --> 00:18:20,192
Like, "Do you want to do
a<i> Rolling Stone</i> interview?"

287
00:18:20,194 --> 00:18:22,961
Do you want to do X?
Do you want to do Y?

288
00:18:22,963 --> 00:18:27,332
It really worries me that what I'm
doing right now is like being a whore.

289
00:18:27,334 --> 00:18:29,567
A whore? Hey. Why?

290
00:18:29,569 --> 00:18:33,637
Cashing in somehow or like getting
some little celebrity for myself...

291
00:18:33,639 --> 00:18:37,507
that will, from some bizarre set of
misunderstandings, sell more copies of the book.

292
00:18:37,509 --> 00:18:40,977
- Mmm, okay.
- You can quote that if you want.

293
00:18:40,979 --> 00:18:43,646
Preferably in a context where I
don't sound like a total dweeb.

294
00:18:43,648 --> 00:18:45,981
Don't worry about it.

295
00:18:45,983 --> 00:18:49,451
By the way, are they gonna send
Annie Leibovitz to take pictures?

296
00:18:49,453 --> 00:18:52,986
I'm not sure. Possibly.
See how the story turns out.

297
00:18:55,155 --> 00:18:57,389
I know. You're a really
good-looking guy.

298
00:18:57,391 --> 00:19:00,125
We should have 'em photograph you,
say you're me.

299
00:19:00,127 --> 00:19:03,094
Maybe I'll finally end up
getting laid.

300
00:19:10,135 --> 00:19:11,635
You're gonna
drink all that?

301
00:19:11,637 --> 00:19:14,037
I don't want to have to come back.
I wish they had a case.

302
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:17,273
Actually,
that's a good idea. Um--

303
00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:22,710
Get the marshmallow one
too, please.

304
00:19:22,712 --> 00:19:25,079
All right. One?

305
00:19:25,081 --> 00:19:26,780
Two.
Two. Of course.

306
00:19:26,782 --> 00:19:28,615
Why would I get one?
One second. Okay.

307
00:19:28,617 --> 00:19:31,017
Okay, all right.
I think that's enough. Come on.

308
00:19:31,019 --> 00:19:34,387
Hey, Kim. Hi.
We'll take all of these.

309
00:19:34,389 --> 00:19:37,456
- Please, let me.
- No, you don't have to pay for my shit.

310
00:19:37,458 --> 00:19:40,292
No, no. It's not coming out of my pocket.
I have an expense account.

311
00:19:41,861 --> 00:19:43,561
If you insist, yeah.
Yeah.

312
00:19:51,903 --> 00:19:53,836
If we ate like this all the time--
Yeah?

313
00:19:53,838 --> 00:19:56,305
What would be wrong with that?
What would be wrong?

314
00:19:56,307 --> 00:19:58,440
Besides your teeth falling out
and getting really fat?

315
00:19:58,442 --> 00:20:00,341
It's got none of the
nourishment of real food,

316
00:20:00,343 --> 00:20:03,644
but it is real pleasurable masticating
and swallowing this stuff.

317
00:20:03,646 --> 00:20:05,679
Yes, it is.
It's like seductive commercial entertainment.

318
00:20:05,681 --> 00:20:08,915
Mmm, but what saves us is that most
entertainment is not very good.

319
00:20:08,917 --> 00:20:12,285
But what about good seductive commercial
entertainment like-- like<i> Die Hard?</i>

320
00:20:12,287 --> 00:20:14,754
First<i> Die Hard?</i> Great film.
No, it's a brilliant film.

321
00:20:14,756 --> 00:20:17,556
The best. So good.
Absolutely.

322
00:20:17,558 --> 00:20:20,425
I think, if the book
is about anything,

323
00:20:20,427 --> 00:20:23,394
it's about the question of "Why?"
Right.

324
00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:25,429
"Why am I watching
all this shit?"

325
00:20:25,431 --> 00:20:28,965
It's not about the shit.
It's about me. Right. Yeah.

326
00:20:28,967 --> 00:20:31,267
So why am I doing it?

327
00:20:31,269 --> 00:20:33,669
And what's so American
about what I'm doing?

328
00:20:35,638 --> 00:20:39,940
The minute I start talking about this stuff,
it sounds, number one, very vague,

329
00:20:39,942 --> 00:20:41,808
and number two,
really reductive.

330
00:20:41,810 --> 00:20:44,243
I don't think you're being
vague or reductive at all.

331
00:20:44,245 --> 00:20:47,112
Okay, because I don't have
a diagnosis...

332
00:20:47,114 --> 00:20:50,348
or a system of prescriptions
as to why we--

333
00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:52,983
When I say "we,"
I mean people just like you and me--

334
00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:54,884
mostly white,
upper middle class,

335
00:20:54,886 --> 00:20:58,354
obscenely well educated,
doing really interesting jobs,

336
00:20:58,356 --> 00:21:01,623
sitting in really expensive
chairs watching the best,

337
00:21:01,625 --> 00:21:05,559
most sophisticated electronic
equipment money can buy.

338
00:21:05,561 --> 00:21:09,362
Why do we feel so empty
and unhappy?

339
00:21:09,364 --> 00:21:12,698
Right. It's kind of like Hamlet
except with channel surfing.

340
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,701
I'm not saying that watching TV
is bad or a waste of your time...

341
00:21:15,703 --> 00:21:19,771
any more than, like,
masturbation is bad or a waste of your time.

342
00:21:19,773 --> 00:21:21,906
It's a pleasurable way
to spend a few minutes.

343
00:21:21,908 --> 00:21:23,741
But if you're doing it
20 times a day--

344
00:21:23,743 --> 00:21:26,643
if your primary sexual relationship
is with your own hand,

345
00:21:26,644 --> 00:21:27,544
something is wrong.

346
00:21:27,545 --> 00:21:29,878
Except at least
with masturbation,

347
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,679
some action is being
performed, right?

348
00:21:31,681 --> 00:21:34,581
Isn't that--
That's better.

349
00:21:34,583 --> 00:21:37,483
Okay, you could make me look like
a real dick if you print this.

350
00:21:37,485 --> 00:21:41,320
No, I'm not going to, but,
if you can, speak into the mike.

351
00:21:41,322 --> 00:21:45,023
Yes, you're performing muscular movements
with your hand as you're jerking off.

352
00:21:45,025 --> 00:21:47,025
But what you're really doing,
I think,

353
00:21:47,027 --> 00:21:49,694
is you're running a movie
in your head.

354
00:21:49,696 --> 00:21:53,230
You're having a fantasy relationship
with somebody who is not real...

355
00:21:53,232 --> 00:21:55,632
strictly to stimulate
a neurological response.

356
00:21:55,634 --> 00:21:59,102
So as the Internet grows
in the next 10, 15 years...

357
00:21:59,104 --> 00:22:02,905
and virtual reality pornography
becomes a reality,

358
00:22:02,907 --> 00:22:07,009
we're gonna have to develop some
real machinery inside our guts...

359
00:22:07,011 --> 00:22:09,011
to turn off
pure, unalloyed pleasure.

360
00:22:09,013 --> 00:22:12,914
Or, I don't know about you,
I'm gonna have to leave the planet.

361
00:22:12,916 --> 00:22:16,250
'Cause the technology is just
gonna get better and better.

362
00:22:16,252 --> 00:22:18,785
And it's gonna get
easier and easier...

363
00:22:18,787 --> 00:22:21,521
and more and more convenient
and more and more pleasurable...

364
00:22:21,523 --> 00:22:25,491
to sit alone
with images on a screen...

365
00:22:25,493 --> 00:22:28,193
given to us by people who do
not love us but want our money.

366
00:22:28,195 --> 00:22:31,229
And that's fine
in low doses,

367
00:22:31,231 --> 00:22:33,731
but if it's the basic
main staple of your diet,

368
00:22:33,733 --> 00:22:35,332
you're gonna die.

369
00:22:36,167 --> 00:22:38,334
Well, come on.

370
00:22:38,336 --> 00:22:42,838
In a meaningful way,
you're going to die.

371
00:22:46,508 --> 00:22:49,877
Hey. Can I try that
actually?

372
00:22:49,879 --> 00:22:53,713
Yeah. It takes some getting used to.
Go ahead.

373
00:22:53,715 --> 00:22:55,047
Thanks.

374
00:22:55,049 --> 00:22:56,715
It goes right there.
Yeah, I know.

375
00:22:59,885 --> 00:23:02,352
Mmm. That's, um--

376
00:23:04,621 --> 00:23:06,888
Actually,
can I-- Can I use your bathroom for a second?

377
00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:08,589
I believe it's unoccupied.

378
00:23:17,331 --> 00:23:18,597
Mm!

379
00:23:58,937 --> 00:24:01,271
Hey.
Hey.

380
00:24:02,539 --> 00:24:04,706
So, do you not
have a television?

381
00:24:04,708 --> 00:24:07,842
I do not have a TV, no.
How come?

382
00:24:07,844 --> 00:24:10,711
Because if I had a TV,
I would watch it all the time.

383
00:24:10,713 --> 00:24:13,113
Ah. I don't even know if I
would watch it all the time,

384
00:24:13,115 --> 00:24:14,981
but it would be on
all the time.

385
00:24:14,983 --> 00:24:18,284
My version of a fireplace--
some sort of source of warmth and light...

386
00:24:18,286 --> 00:24:20,686
in the corner,
I'd occasionally get sucked into.

387
00:24:20,688 --> 00:24:23,722
Did you watch a lot of TV
when you were a kid?

388
00:24:23,724 --> 00:24:26,191
Yeah, a lot.
You?

389
00:24:26,193 --> 00:24:29,861
I, uh-- Me? Yeah.
No, I did. I did.

390
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:36,166
But I moved in with a woman,
and she grew up without a television.

391
00:24:36,168 --> 00:24:39,135
So living with her for the
first month was like torture.

392
00:24:39,137 --> 00:24:42,571
But then I realized it was
probably the best thing for me.

393
00:24:42,573 --> 00:24:45,807
Did you guys stay together?
It was complicated.

394
00:24:45,809 --> 00:24:47,809
Why?

395
00:24:47,811 --> 00:24:51,012
Well, I was seeing this woman,
and she moved to LA,

396
00:24:51,014 --> 00:24:54,682
so we theoretically
broke up.

397
00:24:54,684 --> 00:24:57,017
Then I started seeing
this other woman.

398
00:24:57,019 --> 00:24:59,953
But then I started seeing the first woman
again. We tried the bicoastal thing.

399
00:24:59,955 --> 00:25:03,523
And let's just say the second woman
didn't take to that very well.

400
00:25:03,525 --> 00:25:05,858
It's so much easier
having dogs.

401
00:25:05,860 --> 00:25:07,492
I'm sure it is.

402
00:25:07,494 --> 00:25:10,027
Yes, you don't get laid,
but you don't have that feeling...

403
00:25:10,029 --> 00:25:12,329
like you're hurting their
feelings all the time.

404
00:25:12,331 --> 00:25:13,496
Right, right, right.

405
00:25:13,498 --> 00:25:15,297
I'd like to emphasize--

406
00:25:15,299 --> 00:25:18,333
strictly platonic relationship
with the dogs.

407
00:25:18,335 --> 00:25:21,536
I'll make sure to highlight
that in the article, sure.

408
00:25:21,538 --> 00:25:24,337
Uh, so, you're not
dating anybody then?

409
00:25:25,872 --> 00:25:28,106
Seriously dating?
No. I'm out of practice.

410
00:25:28,108 --> 00:25:29,774
I wouldn't even know
what to say.

411
00:25:31,943 --> 00:25:33,843
Do you want
to have kids?

412
00:25:33,845 --> 00:25:37,213
I think someday I would.
You? Yeah.

413
00:25:37,215 --> 00:25:40,583
Yeah, I think, eventually.
Yeah.

414
00:25:40,585 --> 00:25:44,186
I think that writing books is a
little bit like raising children.

415
00:25:44,188 --> 00:25:46,087
You have to be careful though.

416
00:25:46,089 --> 00:25:48,889
It's okay to take pride
in the work,

417
00:25:48,891 --> 00:25:52,826
but I think it's bad to want the
glory to reflect back on you.

418
00:25:52,828 --> 00:25:55,795
It sounds like you're worried
about having children.

419
00:25:58,031 --> 00:26:00,265
I don't know that I want to say
anything more about that.

420
00:26:00,267 --> 00:26:02,267
If that's okay.
That's fine.

421
00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,270
It's fine for us to joke about
getting laid on tour and stuff,

422
00:26:05,272 --> 00:26:08,673
but that's-- that's about it.

423
00:26:08,675 --> 00:26:11,609
I just thought it'd be nice
to have someone...

424
00:26:11,611 --> 00:26:13,510
to be sharing all this
wonderful stuff with.

425
00:26:13,512 --> 00:26:15,879
That's it.
Yeah.

426
00:26:15,881 --> 00:26:19,815
I'd really wished that I was
married the past couple weeks.

427
00:26:19,817 --> 00:26:21,416
You have?

428
00:26:22,918 --> 00:26:25,853
Yeah. Nobody else
really gets it, you know?

429
00:26:25,855 --> 00:26:28,555
Your friends who aren't
in the writing biz are just--

430
00:26:28,557 --> 00:26:31,758
They're awed by
your picture in<i> Time.</i>

431
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,693
Your agent and editor
are good people,

432
00:26:33,695 --> 00:26:36,462
but they have
their own agendas.

433
00:26:36,464 --> 00:26:40,199
It's fun talking to you about it,
but you've got your own agenda too.

434
00:26:40,201 --> 00:26:43,135
- That's true.
- Certainly a set of interests that diverge from mine.

435
00:26:43,137 --> 00:26:45,003
That's true.

436
00:26:45,005 --> 00:26:49,507
So, yeah, it would be nice to have
somebody that you shared a life with...

437
00:26:49,509 --> 00:26:53,910
and allowed yourself to be happy and...
confused with.

438
00:26:53,912 --> 00:26:56,545
Somebody to call when you
get back to the hotel.

439
00:26:59,515 --> 00:27:02,817
I got a question.
Why aren't you married, at 30?

440
00:27:04,486 --> 00:27:06,954
Why aren't you married,
at 34?

441
00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:08,455
You first.
Okay.

442
00:27:08,457 --> 00:27:11,558
Uh-- I don't know.

443
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,294
I just think it's hard to cast that role,
you know,

444
00:27:14,296 --> 00:27:18,765
to fill it when you know it's
gonna be like 30 to 40 years.

445
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,534
To find someone who, whatever
mental landscape you're in,

446
00:27:22,536 --> 00:27:24,202
they're gonna be in it too.

447
00:27:24,204 --> 00:27:28,105
You have to find someone who will
fit any landscape you can imagine.

448
00:27:28,107 --> 00:27:29,439
I don't know.

449
00:27:29,441 --> 00:27:31,808
I can't put it
as well as you can,

450
00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:34,677
you know, about
these mental landscapes.

451
00:27:34,679 --> 00:27:37,680
I just-- I know that
I'm hard to be around.

452
00:27:37,682 --> 00:27:40,149
- No, I don't think so.
- I am.

453
00:27:40,151 --> 00:27:41,883
Why do you say that?

454
00:27:44,453 --> 00:27:46,787
When I want to be alone,
like, to write,

455
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:48,588
I really do want
to be alone.

456
00:27:48,590 --> 00:27:52,024
I think if you dedicate
yourself to anything,

457
00:27:52,026 --> 00:27:55,494
one facet of that is that it makes you very,
very self-conscious.

458
00:27:55,496 --> 00:27:58,129
And you end up using people--

459
00:27:58,131 --> 00:28:00,631
wanting them around
when you want them around...

460
00:28:00,633 --> 00:28:01,898
and then sending them away.

461
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,033
But that comes
with the territory--

462
00:28:04,035 --> 00:28:07,202
if you're gonna be a writer--
that kind of self-consciousness.

463
00:28:07,204 --> 00:28:08,670
There's good self-consciousness.

464
00:28:08,672 --> 00:28:12,206
Then there's also
a toxic, paralyzing,

465
00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:15,809
"raped by psychic bedouins"
kind of self-consciousness. Right.

466
00:28:15,811 --> 00:28:18,444
That is scary.
Yeah, that sounds worse.

467
00:28:18,446 --> 00:28:21,647
Can you do me a favor? Could you tell
me about that poster over there?

468
00:28:23,149 --> 00:28:26,885
Alanis?
Yeah.

469
00:28:26,887 --> 00:28:29,954
I don't know. I guess I'm susceptible
like everybody else. Why?

470
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:33,657
I mean, she's pretty,
but it's the only thing in there.

471
00:28:33,659 --> 00:28:37,160
She's pretty in a very sloppy,
very human way.

472
00:28:37,162 --> 00:28:41,463
She's got this squeaky,
orgasmic quality to her voice.

473
00:28:42,331 --> 00:28:44,865
You know, here's what it is.

474
00:28:44,867 --> 00:28:48,201
A lot of women in magazines are
pretty in a way that is not erotic...

475
00:28:48,203 --> 00:28:50,736
because they don't look like
anybody that you know.

476
00:28:50,738 --> 00:28:52,337
That's true.

477
00:28:52,339 --> 00:28:55,640
You can't imagine them putting
a quarter in a parking meter...

478
00:28:55,642 --> 00:28:57,608
or, like, eating
a bologna sandwich.

479
00:28:57,610 --> 00:28:59,643
Whereas, Alanis Morissette,

480
00:28:59,645 --> 00:29:04,481
I can and have imagined her just, like,
chowing down on a bologna sandwich.

481
00:29:04,483 --> 00:29:08,051
- I find her absolutely riveting.
- Nice. How did you get into her? How did you get into her music?

482
00:29:08,053 --> 00:29:10,853
I was listening to this
cheesy Bloomington radio,

483
00:29:10,855 --> 00:29:12,788
and "I Want to Tell You"
came on.

484
00:29:12,790 --> 00:29:15,457
"You Oughta Know."
But right.

485
00:29:15,459 --> 00:29:17,125
I don't know
what that means.

486
00:29:17,127 --> 00:29:19,861
<i>I Want to Tell You</i> is a book
that O.J. Simpson wrote.

487
00:29:19,863 --> 00:29:23,464
Ah! That's a different thing.
Yeah.

488
00:29:23,466 --> 00:29:26,433
Although, wouldn't it be funny if O.J.
Simpson sang "You Oughta Know"...

489
00:29:26,435 --> 00:29:29,068
and Alanis Morissette wrote a book
about not killing two people?

490
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:32,004
Oh, man.

491
00:29:32,006 --> 00:29:34,439
I tell you, if this whole
fuss, whatever,

492
00:29:34,441 --> 00:29:37,708
could get me a five-minute
cup of tea with her--

493
00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:40,043
Yo. Why don't you
put out feelers...

494
00:29:40,045 --> 00:29:42,078
and see if she'd be
willing to meet you?

495
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,114
Are you serious?
I would never do that. Why not?

496
00:29:45,116 --> 00:29:47,950
I would be terrified.
Why, would you do that?

497
00:29:47,952 --> 00:29:50,752
If I were you, yeah,
I would do that.

498
00:29:50,754 --> 00:29:53,588
A date with Alanis Morissette?
What would I say?

499
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:57,457
"Hello, Miss Morissette.
What is it like to be you?"

500
00:29:57,459 --> 00:29:59,091
"I don't know.

501
00:29:59,093 --> 00:30:01,493
Shut up and get
the fuck away from me."

502
00:30:01,495 --> 00:30:03,962
That's that beautiful squeaky voice you like.
That's right. And orgasmic.

503
00:30:03,964 --> 00:30:05,763
But you would go
if she called you.

504
00:30:05,765 --> 00:30:08,398
"Hey, Dave, I'm at the Drake
in Chicago. Let's have tea."

505
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,500
This is gonna look ridiculous.

506
00:30:10,502 --> 00:30:13,069
It's gonna look like
I'm using<i> Rolling Stone...</i>

507
00:30:13,071 --> 00:30:14,603
as a vehicle to, like--

508
00:30:14,605 --> 00:30:17,038
- It's been used for worse.
- Yes, I would do it.

509
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,740
Okay? I would do it in a heartbeat.
Good.

510
00:30:19,742 --> 00:30:23,176
Perspiring heavily
the whole way,

511
00:30:23,178 --> 00:30:25,645
the whole time shoving Certs into my mouth.
Exactly.

512
00:30:25,647 --> 00:30:28,914
Freaking out. It would cause me
a week of absolute trauma.

513
00:30:28,916 --> 00:30:31,683
And, yes, I would do it
in a-- in a heartbeat.

514
00:30:31,685 --> 00:30:33,518
Okay? Are you happy?
We got that?

515
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,152
It's on the record.
Okay.

516
00:30:35,154 --> 00:30:38,021
Um--

517
00:30:38,023 --> 00:30:39,622
I like-- Eh.

518
00:30:42,959 --> 00:30:45,727
I like talking to you
about this stuff.

519
00:30:45,729 --> 00:30:47,995
But we should--
We gotta be up early.

520
00:30:47,997 --> 00:30:49,963
Really? What time is it?
It's, like, 10:00.

521
00:30:49,965 --> 00:30:52,598
I think it's, like, 11:30,
dick brain.

522
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,402
Oh, shit. Jesus.
I am so sorry.

523
00:30:57,404 --> 00:30:58,970
I totally
lost track of time.

524
00:30:58,972 --> 00:31:01,539
What time do you want me
to pick you up tomorrow?

525
00:31:01,541 --> 00:31:03,173
Where you going?

526
00:31:03,175 --> 00:31:05,141
There's a motel down the road.
I think it's a Days Inn.

527
00:31:05,143 --> 00:31:08,277
Oh, no, you don't want
to stay there. Trust me.

528
00:31:10,747 --> 00:31:14,182
I got a guest-roomish place
you could stay in.

529
00:31:14,184 --> 00:31:15,783
No, I don't want
to impose.

530
00:31:15,785 --> 00:31:17,818
Don't thank me.
It's not much.

531
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:19,653
Okay.

532
00:31:21,255 --> 00:31:23,456
No, it's great.
Thank you.

533
00:31:23,458 --> 00:31:25,324
I should probably clean some
of that shit off the bed.

534
00:31:25,326 --> 00:31:27,125
Right.
Maximum comfort.

535
00:31:27,127 --> 00:31:28,426
Thanks.

536
00:31:28,428 --> 00:31:30,694
Definitely want
to change that sheet.

537
00:31:30,696 --> 00:31:33,496
No, it's fine.
Thank you.

538
00:31:33,498 --> 00:31:36,098
Just throw it wherever.
Okay. Here you go.

539
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:38,900
Grab one side of this.
All right, thanks.

540
00:31:38,902 --> 00:31:42,403
And you want to change the
pillows or just keep them?

541
00:31:42,405 --> 00:31:45,906
I don't think you're going
to catch anything incurable.

542
00:31:45,908 --> 00:31:49,175
That's all right.
I got penicillin.

543
00:31:49,177 --> 00:31:51,076
Okay. You're good?
Yeah.

544
00:31:51,078 --> 00:31:53,611
Do me a favor.
Leave the door open for the dogs.

545
00:31:53,613 --> 00:31:55,312
They like to wander
from room to room at night.

546
00:31:55,314 --> 00:31:57,914
If the door's closed, they'll eat it
to get through it if they have to.

547
00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:00,016
- Are you serious?
- Yeah.

548
00:32:00,018 --> 00:32:03,686
Okay, yeah.
Okay. Good night.

549
00:32:03,688 --> 00:32:05,688
Good night.
Thanks. Cool.

550
00:32:43,458 --> 00:32:46,193
Oh. All right.

551
00:32:49,630 --> 00:32:53,265
Hey, buddy. Okay.
How are ya?

552
00:32:53,267 --> 00:32:56,635
Okay. Hey. Oh.
All right.

553
00:32:56,637 --> 00:32:59,337
Psst! Okay.

554
00:33:01,507 --> 00:33:04,340
All right.
Thanks. Okay.

555
00:33:05,875 --> 00:33:09,010
All right. Okay.
Have a good night.

556
00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:14,213
Okay.

557
00:33:37,065 --> 00:33:39,099
Oh. Hey.

558
00:33:40,701 --> 00:33:42,468
If you want any,
there's coffee.

559
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:44,369
I don't need caffeine
to wake up.

560
00:33:45,771 --> 00:33:48,939
Oh, but, uh, cigarettes?

561
00:33:48,941 --> 00:33:50,839
Brothers of the lung.
Mmm.

562
00:33:53,209 --> 00:33:55,843
Do you want to split this with me?
It's my last one.

563
00:33:57,278 --> 00:33:59,779
Uh, no, thanks.

564
00:34:06,285 --> 00:34:07,852
Just-- Here.

565
00:34:09,554 --> 00:34:13,423
<i>Mi</i> Pop-Tart<i> es su</i> Pop-Tart.

566
00:34:13,425 --> 00:34:16,292
Thanks.
Try it.

567
00:34:16,294 --> 00:34:17,826
It's delicious, right?

568
00:34:17,828 --> 00:34:20,895
It's really good.

569
00:34:38,979 --> 00:34:40,913
There's a Mitsubishi plant.

570
00:34:40,915 --> 00:34:42,481
Then there's a lot
of farm support.

571
00:34:42,483 --> 00:34:45,217
There's Ro-Tech,
Anderson Seeds.

572
00:34:45,219 --> 00:34:48,520
What are you doing here?
I mean, why are you not in New York?

573
00:34:48,522 --> 00:34:52,757
Every time I go to New York,
I get caught up in this--

574
00:34:52,759 --> 00:34:57,461
There's this enormous hiss of egos at
various states of inflation and deflation.

575
00:34:58,831 --> 00:35:02,899
Yeah. Hey, um, sorry.
I gotta do this.

576
00:35:02,901 --> 00:35:05,001
Okay.

577
00:35:05,003 --> 00:35:08,270
So, I gotta ask.
What is with the bandanna?

578
00:35:09,505 --> 00:35:11,339
What? What do you mean?

579
00:35:11,341 --> 00:35:15,775
No, people think it's your way of
connecting to a younger reading audience.

580
00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:18,877
Is that what people think?

581
00:35:18,879 --> 00:35:21,746
I don't see many Gen Xers
wearing them. Geez.

582
00:35:21,748 --> 00:35:23,814
I kinda wish you hadn't
brought this up, man.

583
00:35:23,816 --> 00:35:26,483
I'm sorry about that.
Why?

584
00:35:26,485 --> 00:35:29,319
Because now I'm worried
it's going to seem intentional.

585
00:35:29,321 --> 00:35:31,387
Like, if I don't wear it,
am I not wearing it...

586
00:35:31,389 --> 00:35:34,456
because I'm bowing to other people's
perception that it's a commercial choice?

587
00:35:34,458 --> 00:35:37,292
Or do I do what I wanna do even though
it's perceived as a commercial choice?

588
00:35:37,294 --> 00:35:40,561
It's like a whole crazy circle
I gotta go around in now.

589
00:35:40,563 --> 00:35:42,496
Come on.
Sorry.

590
00:35:42,498 --> 00:35:45,131
When did you start
wearing them?

591
00:35:45,133 --> 00:35:47,733
In Tucson. It was, like,
a hundred degrees all the time.

592
00:35:47,735 --> 00:35:51,369
I would perspire so heavily,
drip into the electric typewriter.

593
00:35:51,371 --> 00:35:54,038
I was nervous I was gonna
give myself a shock.

594
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,175
And then, at some point,
I realized I felt better with them on.

595
00:35:59,710 --> 00:36:02,678
I know that it's a security blanket
for me whenever I feel nervous...

596
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,114
or, like, I gotta
keep myself together.

597
00:36:06,116 --> 00:36:08,783
Makes me feel kind of creepy,
people view it as an affectation...

598
00:36:08,785 --> 00:36:10,017
or a trademark or something.

599
00:36:10,019 --> 00:36:11,885
It's more of a foible,

600
00:36:11,887 --> 00:36:14,988
the recognition of a weakness that I'm
kind of afraid my head is gonna explode.

601
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:16,522
Right.

602
00:36:21,861 --> 00:36:24,028
Your parents are both academics.
Is that right?

603
00:36:24,896 --> 00:36:27,530
My dad, philosophy.
My mom, English.

604
00:36:27,532 --> 00:36:29,598
So. You?

605
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,200
Me?
Yeah.

606
00:36:32,202 --> 00:36:35,937
My dad is in advertising,
and my mom's a painter.

607
00:36:35,939 --> 00:36:38,940
When they split up,
I moved in with her to SoHo,

608
00:36:38,942 --> 00:36:40,274
and my brother
moved in with my dad.

609
00:36:40,276 --> 00:36:42,576
Sounds like
there's a story there.

610
00:36:42,578 --> 00:36:45,378
Oh, there is.
I-- I just wrote it.

611
00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:49,148
What was it like, you know,
growing up in a house divided like that?

612
00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:52,518
Hey. Who's
interviewing who?

613
00:36:56,289 --> 00:36:59,190
How old were you when you
started writing fiction?

614
00:36:59,192 --> 00:37:00,858
Like, 21.
Something like that.

615
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:02,693
Really?
Never before?

616
00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:05,729
I think I started a World War
II novel when I was nine.

617
00:37:05,731 --> 00:37:08,164
Did you? That's very ambitious.
Thank you.

618
00:37:08,166 --> 00:37:11,333
It was so good, some of my best work.
Come on.

619
00:37:11,335 --> 00:37:14,002
It was about people with
hyperdeveloped skills and powers...

620
00:37:14,004 --> 00:37:16,237
going to invade
Hitler's bunker.

621
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:17,605
Very nice.

622
00:37:17,607 --> 00:37:21,041
Then, in college,
I wrote a couple of papers for other people.

623
00:37:21,043 --> 00:37:23,876
Really? People paid you to
write their papers for them?

624
00:37:25,178 --> 00:37:27,579
I wouldn't put it that coarsely.
How would you--

625
00:37:27,581 --> 00:37:30,748
There was a complicated system of rewards.
I see.

626
00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:32,449
I would read two or three
of their papers...

627
00:37:32,451 --> 00:37:34,517
and get a sense of what
their music was like.

628
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:37,286
At some point, I realized
I'm really good at this.

629
00:37:37,288 --> 00:37:39,888
I'm like a strange kind
of forger.

630
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:41,923
I can sort of sound
like anybody.

631
00:37:41,925 --> 00:37:44,859
It's kind of scary. Um--

632
00:37:44,861 --> 00:37:47,494
Odds are I'm gonna want
to interview your parents.

633
00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:52,465
What for?
Just biographical stuff.

634
00:37:52,467 --> 00:37:54,066
Right.

635
00:37:55,168 --> 00:37:57,435
I hereby request
that you don't.

636
00:37:57,437 --> 00:38:00,271
Really?
They're very private people.

637
00:38:00,273 --> 00:38:03,641
And so I would have a problem with that.
Mmm, okay.

638
00:38:03,643 --> 00:38:05,843
So, no, you may not.

639
00:38:06,978 --> 00:38:09,579
Okay.
I may not.

640
00:38:16,552 --> 00:38:20,054
<i>Now boarding,
Flight 54 to Minneapolis.</i>

641
00:38:22,090 --> 00:38:24,124
Ticket.
Thank you.

642
00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:31,930
Crap jobs?
Oh, man.

643
00:38:31,932 --> 00:38:36,100
I was a security guard at a software
company for three and a half months.

644
00:38:36,102 --> 00:38:40,270
Really?
I walked around in this polyester uniform...

645
00:38:40,272 --> 00:38:43,139
under these fluorescent lights,
twirling a baton,

646
00:38:43,141 --> 00:38:45,574
checking in on the walkie
every 10 minutes.

647
00:38:45,576 --> 00:38:47,342
"All clear
at this cubicle."

648
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:50,812
It was like every bad
'60s novel about meaningless authority.

649
00:38:50,814 --> 00:38:54,482
You're thinking, "My God, I had two books
come out in my early 20s, and here I am."

650
00:38:54,484 --> 00:38:58,219
No. No, as a matter of fact,
one of the things I liked about that job...

651
00:38:58,221 --> 00:39:00,621
is that I walked around not thinking.
Really?

652
00:39:00,623 --> 00:39:05,325
Mmm, in a very, like, "Huh.
A ceiling tile" sort of way.

653
00:39:05,327 --> 00:39:08,328
And what about after the security
guard thing? Was there anything else?

654
00:39:08,330 --> 00:39:10,496
Oh, this is the worst.
What?

655
00:39:10,498 --> 00:39:12,364
Get this down.
I am.

656
00:39:12,366 --> 00:39:15,834
I was a towel boy at this chichi health club.
You were a towel boy?

657
00:39:15,836 --> 00:39:18,503
I was called something other than a towel
boy. I was, in effect, a towel boy.

658
00:39:18,505 --> 00:39:22,273
Occasionally trusted with checking people in.
"Show your ID."

659
00:39:22,275 --> 00:39:24,208
Anyway, one day
I'm sitting there.

660
00:39:24,210 --> 00:39:26,543
Who should walk in to get
their towel but this guy,

661
00:39:26,545 --> 00:39:30,379
this writer that I knew who won a Whiting
writer's award the same year I had.

662
00:39:30,381 --> 00:39:31,880
Oh, God.
Yeah.

663
00:39:31,882 --> 00:39:34,282
So there I am.
I'm sitting there.

664
00:39:34,284 --> 00:39:36,484
I'd been on a rostrum with this guy--
Holy shit.

665
00:39:36,486 --> 00:39:38,752
having Eudora Welty
give us an award.

666
00:39:38,754 --> 00:39:40,820
Two years later,
I'm sitting there--

667
00:39:40,822 --> 00:39:44,056
It's the first time I remember ever
actively diving under something...

668
00:39:44,058 --> 00:39:45,557
to have somebody
avoid seeing me.

669
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:47,392
You dove under a table?
Something like that.

670
00:39:47,394 --> 00:39:51,062
Did you think you were done?
I thought life was over. I was pretty sure.

671
00:39:51,064 --> 00:39:53,130
And was this after
your suicide watch?

672
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,835
Okay, how do you
know about that?

673
00:39:59,837 --> 00:40:02,437
I-- I read about it
somewhere.

674
00:40:02,439 --> 00:40:05,706
This was McLean's, right?
How long were you there?

675
00:40:05,708 --> 00:40:09,242
I was there for eight days.
And why were you there?

676
00:40:09,244 --> 00:40:12,378
Because I was probably afraid
that I would do something stupid.

677
00:40:12,380 --> 00:40:13,978
Okay.

678
00:40:16,715 --> 00:40:19,616
I had a friend in high school
who tried to kill himself...

679
00:40:19,618 --> 00:40:21,985
by sitting in a garage
with the car running.

680
00:40:21,987 --> 00:40:23,786
And what it turned out was
he didn't die.

681
00:40:23,788 --> 00:40:25,721
It just really
fucked up his brain.

682
00:40:25,723 --> 00:40:27,689
And I, you know--

683
00:40:27,691 --> 00:40:31,359
I knew that if anyone was fated to
fuck up a suicide attempt, it was me.

684
00:40:31,361 --> 00:40:33,961
So there you are.
You're still in your 20s.

685
00:40:33,963 --> 00:40:36,129
My late 20s.
Okay, your late 20s.

686
00:40:36,131 --> 00:40:38,598
And you're in
some kind of pain...

687
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,534
about your desire to become some
sort of successful literary person.

688
00:40:41,536 --> 00:40:45,170
I think that the not very sophisticated
diagnosis is that I was depressed.

689
00:40:45,905 --> 00:40:47,672
Okay.

690
00:40:47,674 --> 00:40:52,142
Okay. At that point,
my ego was all tied up in my writing.

691
00:40:52,144 --> 00:40:54,911
It's the only thing
that I'd gotten any, like,

692
00:40:54,913 --> 00:40:57,513
food pellets
from the universe for.

693
00:40:57,515 --> 00:40:59,481
And I felt very trapped.

694
00:40:59,483 --> 00:41:02,150
"Oh, my five years are up
and I gotta move on.

695
00:41:02,152 --> 00:41:04,752
I don't want to move on."

696
00:41:04,754 --> 00:41:06,520
And I felt stuck.

697
00:41:08,289 --> 00:41:10,990
And it's not like I felt stuck
because I drank, okay?

698
00:41:10,992 --> 00:41:15,693
It was like I felt
my life was over at 28,

699
00:41:15,695 --> 00:41:17,695
and I felt really bad.

700
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:21,698
I did not want to feel that,
so I did all sorts of stuff.

701
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:23,766
I would drink real heavy.

702
00:41:23,768 --> 00:41:26,769
I would... fuck strangers.

703
00:41:26,771 --> 00:41:29,638
Sometimes I would not drink at all,
not drink at all for two weeks.

704
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,774
Instead, I would run 10 miles
every morning in a desperate--

705
00:41:36,145 --> 00:41:38,812
like, a very American...

706
00:41:38,814 --> 00:41:43,750
"I will fix this somehow by taking
radical action" sort of thing.

707
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:49,788
And here you are promoting
this acclaimed book.

708
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:51,556
That's not bad.

709
00:41:57,028 --> 00:42:00,063
David, this is nice.

710
00:42:00,065 --> 00:42:02,165
This is not real.

711
00:42:11,207 --> 00:42:13,208
By the way,
an escort is supposed to pick me up...

712
00:42:13,210 --> 00:42:15,643
and escort me
to the reading.

713
00:42:15,645 --> 00:42:19,213
Of course, when I hear "escort,"
I picture, like, full geisha and hair--

714
00:42:19,215 --> 00:42:20,814
Of course, right.

715
00:42:20,816 --> 00:42:23,583
Take you to the bookstore and
take you back to the hotel,

716
00:42:23,585 --> 00:42:26,586
walk on your back and then
just fuck your eyeballs out.

717
00:42:26,588 --> 00:42:29,355
I think that's her.
Ah, just as I pictured.

718
00:42:29,357 --> 00:42:32,091
Mr. Wallace.
Just "Dave."

719
00:42:32,093 --> 00:42:34,927
I recognize you from your photograph.
Okay.

720
00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:36,328
I'm Patty Gundersson.

721
00:42:36,330 --> 00:42:38,396
And welcome
to Minneapolis.

722
00:42:38,398 --> 00:42:41,165
Thank you, Patty. Hi.
I'm David Lipsky. How are you?

723
00:42:41,167 --> 00:42:43,901
Hi. Okay. David and David.
That's easy.

724
00:42:43,903 --> 00:42:46,403
- It's the Twin Cities, so--
- Hmm.

725
00:42:46,405 --> 00:42:49,038
We only just met.
He's writing a piece on the tour.

726
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,308
- Should we get going?
- Yes. Come on. Come on. Great.

727
00:42:53,310 --> 00:42:55,243
How's your morning, Patty?
Oh, it's good.

728
00:42:55,245 --> 00:42:57,345
How about you guys?
Was the flight all right?

729
00:43:03,952 --> 00:43:08,287
You would not believe the
famous people I've driven.

730
00:43:08,289 --> 00:43:11,089
Shirley MacLaine when she
was on her book tour.

731
00:43:11,091 --> 00:43:13,958
Ron Wood, you know,
of the Rolling Stones.

732
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,359
Of course. Yeah. Wow.

733
00:43:15,361 --> 00:43:18,395
Peter O'Toole.
Oh, my gosh.

734
00:43:18,397 --> 00:43:20,330
Very thin, but delightful.

735
00:43:20,332 --> 00:43:22,198
Hey!
Look, there's the Mary Tyler Moore statue.

736
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,899
Yeah, there it is.

737
00:43:23,901 --> 00:43:25,300
Did you want to stop?

738
00:43:25,302 --> 00:43:27,435
Oh.
No, it's fine.

739
00:43:27,437 --> 00:43:29,203
Thank you.
Are you sure?

740
00:43:29,205 --> 00:43:32,439
Everybody who comes here,
that's the first thing they want to see.

741
00:43:32,441 --> 00:43:35,742
"Where did Mary Tyler Moore
throw her hat up in the air?"

742
00:43:35,744 --> 00:43:37,443
It's really one of our
biggest attractions.

743
00:43:37,445 --> 00:43:39,344
Are you sure you don't
want me to stop?

744
00:43:39,346 --> 00:43:43,581
Definitely. No.
Thank you though.

745
00:43:43,583 --> 00:43:45,883
Trust me. This is about
as sexy as the tour gets.

746
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:49,052
Mr.--
Uh, Lipsky.

747
00:43:49,054 --> 00:43:51,954
L-I-P-S-K-Y.

748
00:43:51,956 --> 00:43:53,989
I've got you
in a standard double.

749
00:43:53,991 --> 00:43:56,524
And Mr. Wallace?
Yes.

750
00:43:56,526 --> 00:43:58,526
You have a room
with twins.

751
00:43:58,528 --> 00:44:01,828
Ah, yes.
Anita and Consuela.

752
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:04,497
Excuse me?

753
00:44:08,801 --> 00:44:11,035
All right, man. I'll see you soon.
I'm gonna take a nap.

754
00:44:11,037 --> 00:44:13,504
Oh. Uh--

755
00:44:14,672 --> 00:44:16,072
Yeah.

756
00:44:16,074 --> 00:44:18,274
<i>What does he say
about the heroin rumors?</i>

757
00:44:18,276 --> 00:44:20,209
I haven't gotten
to that.

758
00:44:20,211 --> 00:44:21,944
<i>What are you
waiting for?</i>

759
00:44:21,946 --> 00:44:25,213
What am I supposed to say?
"Is it true you were a heroin addict?"

760
00:44:25,215 --> 00:44:27,315
<i>Yes. That's your story.</i>

761
00:44:27,317 --> 00:44:29,717
Okay, well, that's--
It's hard.

762
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,420
<i>Why, because you like him?</i>
Yeah. Yes.

763
00:44:33,422 --> 00:44:35,789
<i>David, you gotta press him.</i>
Okay.

764
00:44:35,791 --> 00:44:38,491
<i>Be a prick if you have to.
You're not his best buddy.</i> I know.

765
00:44:38,493 --> 00:44:40,359
<i>You're a reporter.</i>
All right. Bye.

766
00:44:51,535 --> 00:44:53,435
It's right up here.

767
00:44:56,138 --> 00:44:57,737
Ready?

768
00:45:00,540 --> 00:45:03,341
- Ah!
- There he is.

769
00:45:03,343 --> 00:45:04,575
I can't believe
you guys actually came.

770
00:45:04,577 --> 00:45:06,877
Yeah, of course.
Hi. Hi.

771
00:45:06,879 --> 00:45:08,612
Wouldn't miss it.
Hello.

772
00:45:08,614 --> 00:45:11,147
Gluttons for punishment, both of you.
I know.

773
00:45:11,149 --> 00:45:15,017
Uh, this is Dave Lipsky.
He's a reporter from<i> Rolling Stone.</i>

774
00:45:15,019 --> 00:45:16,852
Yes. Hi.
Oh.

775
00:45:16,854 --> 00:45:18,920
This is Julie. Hi.
Nice to meet you, Julie.

776
00:45:18,922 --> 00:45:20,788
Great to meet you.

777
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:22,389
And, uh--
This is Betsy.

778
00:45:22,391 --> 00:45:24,224
Betsy and I went
to grad school together.

779
00:45:24,226 --> 00:45:26,192
How nice.
Nice to meet you, Betsy.

780
00:45:26,194 --> 00:45:27,927
And, Julie,
how do you--

781
00:45:27,929 --> 00:45:30,462
Julie-- Here, turn this on.
This is on, right?

782
00:45:30,464 --> 00:45:32,330
It is. Why? Go ahead.
Do you wanna--

783
00:45:32,332 --> 00:45:35,066
I'll do it.
Julie wrote me a fan letter.

784
00:45:35,068 --> 00:45:36,534
Really?
Mm-hmm.

785
00:45:36,536 --> 00:45:38,969
I really did.
I-- Yeah.

786
00:45:38,971 --> 00:45:41,871
I was the books editor at<i> City Pages,</i>
and I wrote him a fan letter.

787
00:45:41,873 --> 00:45:44,006
Julie's worked with
a whole lot of writers.

788
00:45:44,008 --> 00:45:46,274
So I was very discriminating.

789
00:45:46,276 --> 00:45:49,043
And then it turned out that we
actually like each other as people.

790
00:45:49,045 --> 00:45:51,912
Indeed. That's actually what
happened with Jon Franzen and me.

791
00:45:51,914 --> 00:45:54,814
I wrote him a fan letter.
Turns out writers are real pushovers...

792
00:45:54,816 --> 00:45:56,515
when it comes to flattery.

793
00:45:56,517 --> 00:45:58,116
So you could
try that sometime.

794
00:45:58,118 --> 00:46:00,351
I got it.
Very subtle.

795
00:46:00,353 --> 00:46:03,754
Friends of friends who have friends,
as well,

796
00:46:03,756 --> 00:46:05,622
who actually know who--
Cookies?

797
00:46:05,624 --> 00:46:08,191
Oh, no. Thanks a lot.
Oh, no. Thank you.

798
00:46:08,193 --> 00:46:09,592
Cookies?

799
00:46:09,594 --> 00:46:13,028
Really?
Yes, and I've actually been sworn to secrecy.

800
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:16,230
Are you sure I can't get
you something to drink?

801
00:46:17,232 --> 00:46:19,333
Do you have any
artificial spit?

802
00:46:19,335 --> 00:46:22,502
I don't know why
you guys are laughing.

803
00:46:22,504 --> 00:46:24,604
It's an actual
pharmaceutical product.

804
00:46:24,606 --> 00:46:27,273
Called Xero-Lube.
It's like artificial saliva?

805
00:46:27,275 --> 00:46:28,941
That's right.
That's right, David. Really?

806
00:46:28,943 --> 00:46:31,576
Except it's better because
it actually lubricates.

807
00:46:31,578 --> 00:46:33,878
You don't
get that, like--

808
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,746
I see.
That clicky sound.

809
00:46:35,748 --> 00:46:37,948
Could you do that for<i> Rolling Stone?</i>
Here you go.

810
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:40,850
I'll have to remember that.

811
00:46:40,852 --> 00:46:43,686
It's all right.
Next tour, I'll bring myself a case.

812
00:46:43,688 --> 00:46:46,088
In the meantime,
what can I get you?

813
00:46:46,090 --> 00:46:47,789
Just water with no ice,
please.

814
00:46:47,791 --> 00:46:51,526
Are you a fiction wri--
This is off the record. Oh, good.

815
00:46:51,528 --> 00:46:53,861
Are you a fiction writer?
I'm a poet actually.

816
00:46:53,863 --> 00:46:57,030
Really?
Could I have seen anything of yours?

817
00:46:57,032 --> 00:46:59,465
I just had my first poem
published in<i> The Kenyon Review.</i>

818
00:46:59,467 --> 00:47:03,168
Really? Wow. Congratulations.
Yes. Thank you.

819
00:47:07,505 --> 00:47:09,772
I'm sorry. I don't mean
to be a prima donna,

820
00:47:09,774 --> 00:47:12,141
but do you mind if we
don't do a Q and A?

821
00:47:12,143 --> 00:47:15,210
Yeah, of course.
Whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

822
00:47:15,212 --> 00:47:16,744
Thank you.
Sure.

823
00:47:16,746 --> 00:47:19,913
It's always questions like,
"Where do you get your ideas?"

824
00:47:19,915 --> 00:47:23,715
I don't know. From a Time-Life
subscription series for 17.95 a month.

825
00:47:23,717 --> 00:47:26,617
Okay. Now, it's show time.
Okay.

826
00:47:28,086 --> 00:47:29,953
Here we go.
Yeah.

827
00:47:29,955 --> 00:47:32,255
It's all downhill from here.
It's fine.

828
00:47:32,257 --> 00:47:35,791
This is the very last stop
on his book tour,

829
00:47:35,793 --> 00:47:38,059
and we're very lucky
to get him.

830
00:47:38,061 --> 00:47:40,995
Ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to The Hungry Mind,

831
00:47:40,997 --> 00:47:42,930
David Foster Wallace.

832
00:47:51,439 --> 00:47:54,541
Hello. Hi.
Hi.

833
00:47:54,543 --> 00:47:56,509
No, I never show
my mother anything.

834
00:47:56,511 --> 00:47:58,310
Now I feel embarrassed
that I said that.

835
00:47:58,312 --> 00:48:00,378
But that's very sweet.
It is, right?

836
00:48:00,380 --> 00:48:02,413
What's that supposed
to be, a computer?

837
00:48:02,415 --> 00:48:05,582
No, that's a smiley face.
Oh. Right.

838
00:48:05,584 --> 00:48:07,317
I could put white-out
on it if you want.

839
00:48:07,319 --> 00:48:10,052
That's okay.
It's your book. Okay.

840
00:48:11,487 --> 00:48:14,589
Oh, man. This old thing.
Do you mind?

841
00:48:14,591 --> 00:48:17,058
I don't mind,
but the new one's a lot better.

842
00:48:17,893 --> 00:48:19,026
Awesome.

843
00:48:19,028 --> 00:48:22,428
I just realized that they--
they want me to be good.

844
00:48:23,229 --> 00:48:25,029
You know what I mean?

845
00:48:25,031 --> 00:48:27,998
It's just something about,
like, giving back.

846
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,632
You know, in that way.

847
00:48:29,634 --> 00:48:32,434
That made me feel kind of
better about everything.

848
00:48:32,436 --> 00:48:35,270
Please,
give us the-- It's not-- There's no story.

849
00:48:35,272 --> 00:48:38,306
How did it happen then?
Okay.

850
00:48:38,308 --> 00:48:39,940
I couldn't be regular
old Dave Wallace...

851
00:48:39,942 --> 00:48:42,042
'cause there were Dave
Wallaces all over the place.

852
00:48:42,044 --> 00:48:45,378
And David Rains Wallace wrote for the<i> New
Yorker.</i> I don't know if you remember.

853
00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:47,747
So then,
one day-- It was Fred Hill asked me,

854
00:48:47,749 --> 00:48:51,183
"What's your middle name?"
Dave Foster Wallace. That's it.

855
00:48:51,185 --> 00:48:53,051
That's your story?
Yes.

856
00:48:53,053 --> 00:48:55,586
That is literally the worst superhero
origin story I've ever heard.

857
00:48:55,588 --> 00:48:58,221
I cannot claim that it
was an origin story.

858
00:48:58,223 --> 00:49:01,857
Dave, remember in Tucson that professor
you kind of locked horns with?

859
00:49:01,859 --> 00:49:05,093
Oh, man. My nemesis,
who shall remain nameless. Oh, come on.

860
00:49:05,095 --> 00:49:09,063
I was just kind of a prick.
I think he was too. I was unteachable.

861
00:49:09,065 --> 00:49:12,066
I don't think I was actively
unpleasant in class.

862
00:49:12,068 --> 00:49:14,134
You were
pretty unpleasant.

863
00:49:14,136 --> 00:49:15,668
Okay, Betsy.
Betsy. Really.

864
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:17,703
Oh, I loved it.
I loved it.

865
00:49:17,705 --> 00:49:20,639
Betsy, this is--
She loved it.

866
00:49:20,641 --> 00:49:22,607
He was pleasantly
unpleasant.

867
00:49:22,609 --> 00:49:25,242
That's a great quote,
if you want to quote something.

868
00:49:25,244 --> 00:49:27,410
I'm gonna have to interview
the teacher as well though.

869
00:49:27,412 --> 00:49:30,379
Hmm.

870
00:49:30,381 --> 00:49:33,548
I have to be up unconscionably early
for this public radio interview,

871
00:49:33,550 --> 00:49:34,682
so we should probably
get going.

872
00:49:34,684 --> 00:49:36,450
That means I have
to get up early too.

873
00:49:36,452 --> 00:49:39,719
You can do whatever the fuck you want.
You know?

874
00:49:39,721 --> 00:49:42,354
You can sleep in
if you want to.

875
00:49:42,356 --> 00:49:45,590
Well, we'll get you back
to the hotel then.

876
00:49:45,592 --> 00:49:47,391
Check. You know what,
I will get the check.

877
00:49:47,393 --> 00:49:50,460
I'll get it.
Please, this one is on me.

878
00:49:50,462 --> 00:49:52,628
Well, it's on Jann.
No, no. It's on me.

879
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:54,363
Jann?
Jann's his boss.

880
00:49:54,365 --> 00:49:57,132
No, this one is on me.
It was just so nice to meet you guys.

881
00:49:57,134 --> 00:49:58,967
Mr.<i> Rolling Stone.</i>
Yeah.

882
00:50:23,455 --> 00:50:25,221
Can you close the window?
It's fucking freezing.

883
00:50:25,223 --> 00:50:29,591
No, sorry, I cannot. This is our
hypothermia smoking tour of the Midwest.

884
00:50:29,593 --> 00:50:33,161
Hypothermia smoking tour.
I love that.

885
00:50:33,163 --> 00:50:36,030
- Oh, thank you.
- Sounds like something Dave would say.

886
00:50:36,032 --> 00:50:37,564
Doesn't it?

887
00:50:49,374 --> 00:50:51,741
Thanks, ladies.
Yeah, sure.

888
00:50:51,743 --> 00:50:54,477
Yeah, thank you so much. Sure.
What are you doing tomorrow?

889
00:50:54,479 --> 00:50:57,479
Oh.
I'm not sure yet.

890
00:50:58,547 --> 00:51:00,548
Well, give us a call if you want.
We're here.

891
00:51:00,550 --> 00:51:01,982
Okay.
Will do.

892
00:51:01,984 --> 00:51:03,984
Thanks again for coming.
Thank you so much.

893
00:51:03,986 --> 00:51:05,752
Nice to meet you, Julie.

894
00:51:05,754 --> 00:51:07,920
Bye, Betsy. Bye.
Bye, David.

895
00:51:16,628 --> 00:51:19,796
That was fun.
Yeah, it was nice.

896
00:51:19,798 --> 00:51:21,697
All right, I'm hungry.
Still?

897
00:51:23,166 --> 00:51:25,600
Yeah, it's terrifying
when it's happening.

898
00:51:25,602 --> 00:51:28,369
Really? How does it
feel though?

899
00:51:28,371 --> 00:51:31,671
People fighting to get in.
A big line of people wanting to impress you.

900
00:51:33,206 --> 00:51:35,473
I tell you what.
I think that having an audience--

901
00:51:35,475 --> 00:51:37,408
like, really,
really pretty girls--

902
00:51:37,410 --> 00:51:41,245
who are all paying attention to you
and kind of like what you're saying,

903
00:51:41,247 --> 00:51:46,416
that's gratifying on a fairly,
I think, just simple mammal level.

904
00:51:46,418 --> 00:51:49,285
I know. Why is that?

905
00:51:49,287 --> 00:51:52,588
I think pretty girls are what we most
dream and despair of ever having,

906
00:51:52,590 --> 00:51:54,923
like, pay attention to us.

907
00:51:54,925 --> 00:51:58,726
There they are in the front
row making eyes at you.

908
00:51:58,728 --> 00:52:01,161
I think my girlfriend
is in love with you.

909
00:52:02,796 --> 00:52:05,097
Come on. No, she's not.
No, really.

910
00:52:05,099 --> 00:52:06,598
I think she is.

911
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,068
I think she likes your writing better
than mine. That's kind of annoying.

912
00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:14,104
Let's get her on the phone.
Get her on the phone. What?

913
00:52:14,106 --> 00:52:15,672
No.

914
00:52:17,174 --> 00:52:19,875
No. I don't know.
She's--

915
00:52:19,877 --> 00:52:22,510
She's probably sleeping
anyway.

916
00:52:24,980 --> 00:52:26,146
Please.

917
00:52:27,983 --> 00:52:29,682
<i>Hello?</i>
Hi.

918
00:52:29,684 --> 00:52:32,918
<i>How's it going?</i>
It's, uh-- Did I wake you up?

919
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,820
<i>No. I'm up reading</i>
Infinite Jest.

920
00:52:35,822 --> 00:52:38,122
<i>Pretty amazing.</i>
Oh. Good.

921
00:52:38,124 --> 00:52:40,691
Listen, I'm here with somebody
who wants to talk to you.

922
00:52:40,693 --> 00:52:43,427
Can you hold on a second?
What's her name again?

923
00:52:43,429 --> 00:52:45,228
It's Sarah.
Yeah. Sarah.

924
00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:48,630
Sarah, hi.
It's Dave Wallace.

925
00:52:48,632 --> 00:52:49,931
<i>Nice to meet you
telephonically.</i>

926
00:52:49,933 --> 00:52:51,832
It's nice to meet you
telephonically as well.

927
00:52:51,834 --> 00:52:55,468
<i>Is David behaving himself?</i>
Let me ask him.

928
00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:57,570
Are you behaving yourself?

929
00:52:57,572 --> 00:52:59,572
She's asking that?

930
00:53:01,676 --> 00:53:03,842
I'm reasonably sure
that he is.

931
00:53:03,844 --> 00:53:06,144
I don't have
eyes on him 24-7.

932
00:53:06,146 --> 00:53:07,778
Sarah? Okay.

933
00:53:07,780 --> 00:53:09,846
What are you doin' tonight?
Don't ask her that.

934
00:53:09,848 --> 00:53:13,882
Oh, wow. You're kidding me.
Oh, my gosh. <i>Yes. It's awesome.</i>

935
00:53:13,884 --> 00:53:15,650
What part are you on?

936
00:53:15,652 --> 00:53:18,552
<i>369.</i> Wow,
you're really far along.

937
00:53:18,554 --> 00:53:20,820
<i>I know. I can't put it down.</i>
Oh, thank you.

938
00:53:20,822 --> 00:53:25,624
<i>Really, thank</i> you.
I mean, that's very flattering.

939
00:53:25,626 --> 00:53:27,826
What the fuck was that about?
<i>What?</i>

940
00:53:27,828 --> 00:53:29,561
You were on the phone with him
for half an hour.

941
00:53:29,563 --> 00:53:33,097
<i>It wasn't a half hour.</i> It was.
It was 25 minutes. Okay? I timed it.

942
00:53:33,099 --> 00:53:34,965
You were only supposed
to say hello.

943
00:53:51,982 --> 00:53:55,517
- David?
- David, we gotta go.

944
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:58,019
Uh, the escort's waiting.

945
00:54:00,088 --> 00:54:02,422
Hey. Sorry.

946
00:54:02,424 --> 00:54:06,526
I got totally, like,
sucked in with this orgy of crap.

947
00:54:06,528 --> 00:54:10,696
There's a simultaneous broadcast of<i> Falcon
Crest, Magnum P.I.</i> and<i> Charlie's Angels.</i>

948
00:54:10,698 --> 00:54:12,831
Okay.
A perfect storm of shit.

949
00:54:12,833 --> 00:54:14,899
I'll be out in a second, okay?
Okay.

950
00:54:28,845 --> 00:54:31,847
<i>Infomercial ]</i>

951
00:54:37,819 --> 00:54:40,387
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this free workout video...</i>

952
00:54:40,389 --> 00:54:43,690
<i>with complete instructions
and 16 ab-work exercises.</i>

953
00:54:43,692 --> 00:54:47,326
<i>Plus my 20-minute aerobic workout.
That's everything you need.</i>

954
00:54:48,928 --> 00:54:50,528
Here, go in.
Can you go around?

955
00:54:50,530 --> 00:54:52,062
Yeah, yeah. Sure.
Thanks.

956
00:54:57,568 --> 00:54:59,801
You're wearing that?

957
00:55:02,337 --> 00:55:05,672
For a radio interview?
Uh, yes.

958
00:55:12,579 --> 00:55:15,780
Hi. Dave.
Dave Wallace.

959
00:55:15,782 --> 00:55:18,582
I know who you are.

960
00:55:18,584 --> 00:55:21,051
My amanuensis--
Mr. Boswell.

961
00:55:21,053 --> 00:55:23,319
- Mr. Boswell.
- Very clever. Hi.

962
00:55:23,321 --> 00:55:24,920
Right this way.

963
00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:31,125
We record digitally.
I hope that's okay.

964
00:55:31,127 --> 00:55:34,628
So just yes or no
answers?

965
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:36,029
That's very funny.
Hey.

966
00:55:36,031 --> 00:55:38,898
What? Hey.
You do a really mean job with this,

967
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:41,233
Yeah?
I got, like, 20 years to get you back.

968
00:55:41,235 --> 00:55:42,634
You remember that.
You're gonna be fine.

969
00:55:42,636 --> 00:55:45,203
My guest today
is David Foster Wallace,

970
00:55:45,205 --> 00:55:47,838
who has burst on
the literary scene...

971
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,907
with his 1,079-page,

972
00:55:50,909 --> 00:55:54,509
three-pound,
three-ounce novel,

973
00:55:54,511 --> 00:55:56,677
<i>Infinite Jest.</i>

974
00:55:56,679 --> 00:56:00,680
Jay McInerney called it
"something like a sleek Vonnegut chassis...

975
00:56:00,682 --> 00:56:03,181
wrapped in layers
of post-millennial Zola."

976
00:56:04,650 --> 00:56:06,617
David Foster Wallace,
welcome to our show.

977
00:56:06,619 --> 00:56:08,552
Thank you.
I'm glad to be here.

978
00:56:08,554 --> 00:56:13,122
All right. Now,
you have said you saw yourself as, quote,

979
00:56:13,124 --> 00:56:17,659
"a combination of being incredibly
shy and being an egomaniac too."

980
00:56:17,661 --> 00:56:20,628
I believe I said
"exhibitionist" also.

981
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:22,396
Meaning?

982
00:56:22,398 --> 00:56:24,698
I think being shy basically
means being self-absorbed...

983
00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:28,301
to the extent that it makes it
difficult to be around other people.

984
00:56:28,303 --> 00:56:30,303
Difficult for you or difficult
for the other people?

985
00:56:30,305 --> 00:56:33,873
Ah. I suppose
a little bit of both.

986
00:56:33,875 --> 00:56:36,308
That was wonderful.
Oh, yeah?

987
00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:40,611
I listened to the whole show.
It was so interesting. Thanks.

988
00:56:40,613 --> 00:56:42,980
I may have to buy your
book and read it.

989
00:56:42,982 --> 00:56:45,182
- Uh, sorry about that.
- Oh, no!

990
00:56:45,184 --> 00:56:47,918
Wasn't he wonderful?
He was wonderful.

991
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,854
Oh, my gosh. So, you have
the rest of the day free.

992
00:56:50,856 --> 00:56:53,089
Where would you
like to go?

993
00:56:53,091 --> 00:56:54,690
Yeah.

994
00:56:54,692 --> 00:56:56,958
Do you know where
the Mall of America is?

995
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,193
Yes, I do.
Great.

996
00:56:59,195 --> 00:57:01,295
Yes, I do.
Yeah.

997
00:57:08,203 --> 00:57:11,137
I wanted to write something
that had the sort of texture...

998
00:57:11,139 --> 00:57:13,072
of what American life
is like now.

999
00:57:13,074 --> 00:57:15,441
- This tsunami of stuff just comin' at you.
- Right.

1000
00:57:15,443 --> 00:57:18,677
Also, it's not unfun, I don't think.
No. I don't think so either.

1001
00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:21,880
No. Not at all. I mean, although it is,
uh-- it is sort of heavy though.

1002
00:57:21,882 --> 00:57:24,048
Right?
Weight-wise at least.

1003
00:57:24,050 --> 00:57:27,151
My friend said, when it hit his porch,
it sounded like a car bomb going off.

1004
00:57:27,153 --> 00:57:30,020
Right. Exactly.
And-- And who do you think your readers are?

1005
00:57:30,022 --> 00:57:31,955
Are they, uh--
Are they college kids?

1006
00:57:31,957 --> 00:57:35,024
The people who seem most
enthusiastic are young men.

1007
00:57:35,026 --> 00:57:37,793
Which I guess I understand.
It's a fairly male book.

1008
00:57:37,795 --> 00:57:40,962
It's a fairly nerdy book, too,
about loneliness.

1009
00:57:40,964 --> 00:57:43,831
You also can expect that someone who's
willing to read-- and read hard--

1010
00:57:43,833 --> 00:57:46,900
a thousand-page book is gonna be
someone with some loneliness issues.

1011
00:57:46,902 --> 00:57:49,269
Right.

1012
00:57:50,537 --> 00:57:52,971
So, is that what you think
the book is about then?

1013
00:57:52,973 --> 00:57:55,106
About loneliness?

1014
00:57:58,210 --> 00:58:01,545
I think that if there's a sort
of sadness for people under 45,

1015
00:58:01,547 --> 00:58:05,849
it has something to do with pleasure
and achievement and entertainment.

1016
00:58:05,851 --> 00:58:09,052
Like a sort of emptiness at the heart
of what they thought was going on,

1017
00:58:09,054 --> 00:58:12,088
and maybe I can hope
that some parts of the book...

1018
00:58:12,090 --> 00:58:14,723
speak to their nerve endings a little bit.
Mm-hmm.

1019
00:58:14,725 --> 00:58:18,093
If you quote any of this, by the way,
you'd do me a great favor by saying...

1020
00:58:18,095 --> 00:58:19,861
this is what I hope
for the book, you know.

1021
00:58:19,863 --> 00:58:22,763
This is what the book is trying to achieve.
I don't pretend that it has.

1022
00:58:22,765 --> 00:58:25,665
That's-- That's fine.
Um--

1023
00:58:25,667 --> 00:58:28,734
So the Walter Kirn review in,
uh,<i> New York</i> magazine. Did you--

1024
00:58:28,736 --> 00:58:31,937
I heard about it. I didn't read it.
You didn't read it.

1025
00:58:31,939 --> 00:58:35,640
"Next year's book awards have been decided."
How do you feel about that?

1026
00:58:35,642 --> 00:58:38,643
How do I feel about it?
I applaud his taste and discernment.

1027
00:58:38,645 --> 00:58:41,278
What do you want me to say?
How would you feel about it?

1028
00:58:42,346 --> 00:58:44,847
How would I feel?

1029
00:58:44,849 --> 00:58:51,386
That something that I had known was really
good was now being validated by somebody else.

1030
00:58:51,388 --> 00:58:56,290
All I know is this is absolutely the
best I could do between 1992 and 1995.

1031
00:58:56,292 --> 00:58:58,425
If everybody had hated it,
I wouldn't have been thrilled.

1032
00:58:58,427 --> 00:59:01,928
I don't think I would have
been devastated either.

1033
00:59:01,930 --> 00:59:05,064
When you're used to doing heavy-duty
literary stuff that doesn't sell well,

1034
00:59:05,066 --> 00:59:09,267
being human animals with egos, you accommodate
that fact by the following equation.

1035
00:59:09,269 --> 00:59:12,103
If something sells really well,
gets a lot of attention,

1036
00:59:12,105 --> 00:59:14,305
it's gotta be shit, right?
Right. Of course.

1037
00:59:14,307 --> 00:59:16,573
The ultimate irony is,
if your thing starts selling well,

1038
00:59:16,575 --> 00:59:18,107
gets a lot of attention,

1039
00:59:18,109 --> 00:59:20,109
the very mechanism
you used to shore yourself up...

1040
00:59:20,111 --> 00:59:21,977
when your thing didn't sell well--
Doesn't work anymore.

1041
00:59:21,979 --> 00:59:25,480
It's now part of the darkness nexus when
it does, so you're totally screwed.

1042
00:59:25,482 --> 00:59:27,215
You know, you can't win.

1043
00:59:29,518 --> 00:59:31,719
I don't really see how they
could've gotten lost. Right.

1044
00:59:31,721 --> 00:59:35,723
I mean, it's a straight shot. Yeah.
Of course. Right, just past the food court.

1045
00:59:35,725 --> 00:59:39,126
Yeah. Through the amusement park.
Through the first lobster.

1046
00:59:39,128 --> 00:59:41,528
Yeah. Don't go to the aquarium.
Turn right.

1047
00:59:41,530 --> 00:59:44,930
Do not-- If you see fudge,
you've gone too far.

1048
00:59:44,932 --> 00:59:47,666
Hey! Hello.

1049
00:59:47,668 --> 00:59:49,300
Aw.
Hey!

1050
00:59:51,536 --> 00:59:54,204
- Hello.
- It's good to see you.

1051
00:59:54,206 --> 00:59:55,972
Nice to see you.
Thanks for driving up here.

1052
00:59:55,974 --> 00:59:57,306
Yes.
You love it, I know it.

1053
00:59:57,308 --> 00:59:59,308
Nice to see you. Hello, Betsy.
Great. How are you?

1054
00:59:59,310 --> 01:00:01,576
What's<i> The Juror?</i>

1055
01:00:01,578 --> 01:00:05,512
Oh, that's a Demi Moore,
John Grisham movie. Yeah.

1056
01:00:05,514 --> 01:00:06,813
<i>Happy Gilmore?</i>
No.

1057
01:00:06,815 --> 01:00:08,481
That's, uh, what?
Adam Sandler.

1058
01:00:08,483 --> 01:00:10,649
Right. What about,
uh, <i>Broken Arrow?</i>

1059
01:00:10,651 --> 01:00:14,052
It's a dumb boy movie. Stuff blows up.
I've actually seen that.

1060
01:00:14,054 --> 01:00:15,586
You saw that already?
I did actually.

1061
01:00:15,588 --> 01:00:17,120
Wow, a man after
my own heart.

1062
01:00:17,122 --> 01:00:19,689
But I would be happy to see
it again if you want to.

1063
01:00:19,691 --> 01:00:21,490
Nah. We can really
see anything.

1064
01:00:34,268 --> 01:00:36,502
Oh, man.

1065
01:00:56,822 --> 01:00:58,489
No.

1066
01:00:59,991 --> 01:01:01,057
Yes.

1067
01:01:09,799 --> 01:01:11,666
It's fantastic.

1068
01:01:11,668 --> 01:01:14,035
- Horrible.
- You have got to be kidding me.

1069
01:01:14,037 --> 01:01:17,538
That was the worst-- The end,
when Travolta got impaled by the thing?

1070
01:01:17,540 --> 01:01:20,741
The worst movie I've ever seen.
He-He saved humanity, Betsy.

1071
01:01:20,743 --> 01:01:22,476
No, he did not.
Have a heart.

1072
01:01:22,478 --> 01:01:24,110
He made it worse.
You've changed.

1073
01:01:24,112 --> 01:01:26,312
He made it worse.
What do we do now?

1074
01:01:26,314 --> 01:01:29,815
Do you have a TV?
Uh-huh. I do.

1075
01:01:29,817 --> 01:01:32,450
<i>Oh, God. You know what I mean.
Who knows? Okay.</i>

1076
01:01:32,452 --> 01:01:34,718
<i>I guess, you know.
Oh, gotta hand you, that show the other day.</i>

1077
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,586
<i>With Sandra Bernhard?
Ah, Jesus Christ!</i>

1078
01:01:36,588 --> 01:01:38,287
I know that guy
actually.

1079
01:01:38,289 --> 01:01:40,956
Wh-Which one?
The one playing Letterman.

1080
01:01:40,958 --> 01:01:42,357
Really?
You do?

1081
01:01:42,359 --> 01:01:44,392
How?
We went to Amherst together.

1082
01:01:44,393 --> 01:01:45,327
No.
Yeah.

1083
01:01:45,328 --> 01:01:46,860
Was he a friend
of yours?

1084
01:01:46,862 --> 01:01:48,561
I hated his guts so much.

1085
01:01:48,563 --> 01:01:50,062
Of course you did.
Right.

1086
01:01:50,064 --> 01:01:52,130
Hey, wait.
Does anyone want drinks or anything?

1087
01:01:52,132 --> 01:01:53,865
No.
No? Okay.

1088
01:01:53,867 --> 01:01:57,635
- But, um, there's also beer in the fridge.
- Soda's fine. Thank you.

1089
01:01:58,970 --> 01:02:02,038
- Why did you hate him?
- Pretty simple recipe.

1090
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,306
He was, like, very cool and popular.
Mm-hmm.

1091
01:02:04,308 --> 01:02:08,209
And I was not. That was the basic offense.
Look at him now.

1092
01:02:11,546 --> 01:02:13,313
Hey.
Hey.

1093
01:02:13,315 --> 01:02:15,214
Ah, I brought you
something.

1094
01:02:15,216 --> 01:02:16,848
You brought me something?

1095
01:02:16,850 --> 01:02:18,416
Yeah.
What is this?

1096
01:02:18,418 --> 01:02:20,351
Oh, my God.
This is the, uh--

1097
01:02:20,353 --> 01:02:22,286
This is the<i> Review,</i>
where you have your poem in it.

1098
01:02:22,288 --> 01:02:23,620
Somewhere in there.
That's amazing.

1099
01:02:24,154 --> 01:02:25,554
What's on next?

1100
01:02:25,556 --> 01:02:29,524
<i>Algiers,</i> starring Hedy Lamarr.
Have you seen that?

1101
01:02:29,526 --> 01:02:33,661
Um, no. It's one of the greats.
And Hedy Lamarr is fascinating.

1102
01:02:33,663 --> 01:02:36,497
She invented,
uh-- She invented frequency hopping.

1103
01:02:37,165 --> 01:02:38,732
No, she didn't.
Yeah.

1104
01:02:38,734 --> 01:02:40,333
I will.
I definitely will.

1105
01:02:40,335 --> 01:02:41,600
Um--

1106
01:02:41,602 --> 01:02:43,735
Hey, I was wondering.
When I get back to New York,

1107
01:02:43,737 --> 01:02:46,637
if I have any questions about what Dave
was like in grad school or something,

1108
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:50,207
can I e-mail you?
Sure, if it's okay with Dave.

1109
01:02:50,209 --> 01:02:51,841
I'm sure it's fine
with Dave.

1110
01:02:51,843 --> 01:02:55,578
That's great. So can I take your
e-mail address then? Sure. Uh, yeah.

1111
01:02:56,446 --> 01:02:58,480
Oh, that'd be great.
Thank you.

1112
01:02:58,482 --> 01:03:02,417
You could just write it
on your book.

1113
01:03:08,223 --> 01:03:09,890
Thank you so much.
Can you read that?

1114
01:03:09,892 --> 01:03:13,993
I can see that it is letters.
But, no, I'll be fine. Thank you so much.

1115
01:03:13,995 --> 01:03:15,594
Sure.

1116
01:03:19,798 --> 01:03:21,832
- So, do you drink out of the tap?
- Yes.

1117
01:03:21,834 --> 01:03:23,600
Okay, great.

1118
01:03:27,904 --> 01:03:29,871
What are you--
What are you doing?

1119
01:03:29,873 --> 01:03:31,339
What?

1120
01:03:31,341 --> 01:03:34,675
I saw you
hitting on Betsy.

1121
01:03:34,677 --> 01:03:38,779
Hitting on-- I was--
I was talking to her.

1122
01:03:38,781 --> 01:03:41,915
David.
I saw you.

1123
01:03:41,917 --> 01:03:44,651
You got her to give you
her address.

1124
01:03:44,653 --> 01:03:47,920
No, no, no.
I got her to give me her e-mail address.

1125
01:03:47,922 --> 01:03:50,989
In case I had questions about the
piece that I am writing about you.

1126
01:03:50,991 --> 01:03:52,490
Really? Okay.
Yeah, really.

1127
01:03:52,492 --> 01:03:55,292
Well, I'll tell you what.
What?

1128
01:03:55,294 --> 01:03:56,860
I don't want her
talking to you.

1129
01:03:56,862 --> 01:03:58,528
- I won't contact her.
- Look--

1130
01:03:58,530 --> 01:04:01,497
I told you that Betsy and I
dated during grad school.

1131
01:04:01,499 --> 01:04:04,465
The least-- Look at me.
The least you could-- No, you're not.

1132
01:04:06,568 --> 01:04:08,802
The least you could do
is show me the respect...

1133
01:04:08,804 --> 01:04:12,138
of not coming on to her
right in front of me.

1134
01:04:12,140 --> 01:04:17,142
Dave, I'm sorry if it looked that way.
That was not my intention.

1135
01:04:17,144 --> 01:04:20,678
And why would I want to get involved
with somebody who lives in Saint Paul?

1136
01:04:22,347 --> 01:04:26,716
I don't know. You're already involved
with somebody who lives in Los Angeles.

1137
01:04:28,852 --> 01:04:30,052
Okay.

1138
01:04:30,054 --> 01:04:32,154
Are you okay?

1139
01:04:32,156 --> 01:04:34,122
Yeah, everything's fine.
Thank you.

1140
01:04:34,124 --> 01:04:35,790
Okay.

1141
01:04:36,792 --> 01:04:39,292
Stay away from her, okay?

1142
01:04:41,528 --> 01:04:43,862
Be a good guy.

1143
01:04:48,767 --> 01:04:50,567
What'd I miss?

1144
01:04:50,569 --> 01:04:54,870
Everything. Nothing. Everything?
That seems like a gross exaggeration.

1145
01:05:14,855 --> 01:05:18,557
<i>No. No! No!</i>

1146
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:22,326
<i>No! No! No!</i>

1147
01:05:23,428 --> 01:05:24,995
<i>No!</i>

1148
01:05:56,258 --> 01:05:58,759
9.50, please.

1149
01:05:58,761 --> 01:06:02,429
I got it. It's all right.
My expense account will pay for it.

1150
01:06:02,431 --> 01:06:05,298
Yeah, so will mine.
I said I got it.

1151
01:06:07,501 --> 01:06:09,235
Thank you.

1152
01:06:48,837 --> 01:06:50,904
Hey, um--

1153
01:06:52,072 --> 01:06:54,039
Good night.

1154
01:07:00,513 --> 01:07:02,347
<i>Were you flirting?</i> Sarah.
Of course I was not flirting.

1155
01:07:02,349 --> 01:07:04,182
He just-- He went
completely crazy on me.

1156
01:07:04,184 --> 01:07:06,951
<i>Well, you do that, David, you know?
You're not even aware of it.</i>

1157
01:07:06,953 --> 01:07:09,787
Sorry, I do-- What do I do?
<i>You're compulsively flirtatious.</i>

1158
01:07:09,789 --> 01:07:11,622
Okay. Well, now you're
taking his side.

1159
01:07:11,624 --> 01:07:15,192
<i>I am not.</i> Yes, you are.
Listen, I--

1160
01:07:15,194 --> 01:07:17,827
I think I'm just
really tired, okay?

1161
01:07:19,062 --> 01:07:20,929
I gotta go.

1162
01:07:20,931 --> 01:07:22,397
<i>David?</i>

1163
01:07:23,432 --> 01:07:25,433
<i>David?</i>

1164
01:07:35,610 --> 01:07:36,943
Good morning!

1165
01:07:36,945 --> 01:07:39,578
Hi.
And how are we this morning?

1166
01:07:42,014 --> 01:07:43,647
Think I'll sit up front.

1167
01:07:43,649 --> 01:07:47,950
Oh. Okay.
Let me just, um, move my stuff.

1168
01:07:49,652 --> 01:07:51,452
There you go.

1169
01:09:42,924 --> 01:09:45,091
Okay.

1170
01:09:47,661 --> 01:09:49,828
What?

1171
01:09:49,830 --> 01:09:52,430
You didn't think to write
down where we parked the car?

1172
01:09:52,432 --> 01:09:54,832
No. I didn't.
Okay?

1173
01:09:54,834 --> 01:09:57,367
Sorry. I fucked up.
All right? I'm a fuckup.

1174
01:09:57,369 --> 01:09:59,736
Not everybody can be
as brilliant as you.

1175
01:09:59,738 --> 01:10:02,705
What is with you?
What the fuck is with you?

1176
01:10:16,850 --> 01:10:19,451
I gotta say,
there's something...

1177
01:10:19,453 --> 01:10:22,486
basically false about
your approach here.

1178
01:10:23,821 --> 01:10:26,589
What do you mean "false"?
Yeah, I think it's, uh--

1179
01:10:26,591 --> 01:10:30,158
I think it's part of your
whole social strategy.

1180
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,760
In what way?

1181
01:10:32,762 --> 01:10:36,196
You still feel you're
smarter than other people.

1182
01:10:36,198 --> 01:10:37,764
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.

1183
01:10:37,766 --> 01:10:39,999
But you act like you're
in a kids' softball game,

1184
01:10:40,001 --> 01:10:42,434
but holding back his power-hitting to
try and make it more competitive...

1185
01:10:42,436 --> 01:10:43,935
for the little ones,
you know?

1186
01:10:43,937 --> 01:10:47,271
When? Here. Now.
The past three days.

1187
01:10:47,273 --> 01:10:49,640
It's part of your
social strategy.

1188
01:10:51,109 --> 01:10:53,477
You're a tough room, you know that?
It's so obvious,

1189
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:57,513
the way you hold back your intelligence
to be with people who are, uh,

1190
01:10:57,515 --> 01:10:59,581
younger than you
or not as agile as you.

1191
01:10:59,583 --> 01:11:01,749
That would make me a real asshole,
wouldn't it? Well.

1192
01:11:03,218 --> 01:11:05,986
I don't think writers
are smarter than other people.

1193
01:11:05,988 --> 01:11:09,089
I think they may be more
compelling in their stupidity.

1194
01:11:09,091 --> 01:11:10,757
Or in their confusion.

1195
01:11:10,759 --> 01:11:13,025
But I think one of the real ways
I have gotten smarter...

1196
01:11:13,027 --> 01:11:15,260
is I don't think I'm that much
smarter than other people.

1197
01:11:15,262 --> 01:11:16,828
That's right.

1198
01:11:16,830 --> 01:11:19,363
There are ways in which other
people are a lot smarter than me.

1199
01:11:19,365 --> 01:11:22,032
And I gotta tell you, it--

1200
01:11:22,034 --> 01:11:24,234
It makes me feel kinda lonely.
What?

1201
01:11:24,236 --> 01:11:27,136
There's been certain stuff I've
told you that's been really true.

1202
01:11:27,138 --> 01:11:29,538
- I think it's been brave of me.
- No, no, no. Absolutely.

1203
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:31,406
I've written enough
of these pieces to know...

1204
01:11:31,408 --> 01:11:33,941
you can write this up a hundred
different ways. You're right.

1205
01:11:33,943 --> 01:11:36,944
Ninety of which I'm gonna come
across as a monumental asshole.

1206
01:11:36,946 --> 01:11:39,613
And now it seems to me
like your read on this is,

1207
01:11:39,615 --> 01:11:42,882
"Wow. What an interesting
persona Dave is adopting...

1208
01:11:42,884 --> 01:11:45,251
- for the purposes of this interview." 
- No, that's not what I'm saying.

1209
01:11:45,253 --> 01:11:49,921
If we had done this by the mail, if I had
access to my library, if I could look stuff up--

1210
01:11:49,923 --> 01:11:52,823
My dream for this would be for you
to write it up, send it to me...

1211
01:11:52,825 --> 01:11:54,291
- and let me rewrite all my quotes.
- Right.

1212
01:11:54,293 --> 01:11:56,726
Which, of course, you'll never do.
But if I'm in a room...

1213
01:11:56,728 --> 01:11:59,895
by myself, alone, and I have time,
I can be really smart.

1214
01:11:59,897 --> 01:12:03,631
Yes, I think I'm bright. I think I'm talented.
I'm not trying to sound disingenuous--

1215
01:12:03,633 --> 01:12:05,799
- Oh, no?
- I am not an idiot.

1216
01:12:05,801 --> 01:12:08,601
Yes, I can talk intelligently
with you about stuff,

1217
01:12:08,603 --> 01:12:10,936
but I can't quite
keep up with you.

1218
01:12:10,938 --> 01:12:12,737
- Okay. That is such bullshit.
- Oh, believe me.

1219
01:12:12,739 --> 01:12:15,940
I am not doing some
sorta like, "Aw, shucks.

1220
01:12:15,942 --> 01:12:18,042
I'm just in from the country.
I'm not a real writer.

1221
01:12:18,044 --> 01:12:20,544
I'm a regular guy" thing.
I'm not trying to lay some shit on you.

1222
01:12:20,546 --> 01:12:24,180
But you did it again though.
You flatter me, but you're just patronizing.

1223
01:12:24,182 --> 01:12:26,115
I just think that to look
across the room...

1224
01:12:26,117 --> 01:12:29,184
and to automatically assume
that somebody is less aware...

1225
01:12:29,186 --> 01:12:33,354
or that their interior life is
somehow less rich and complicated...

1226
01:12:33,356 --> 01:12:37,658
- and acutely perceived as mine, makes me not as good a writer.
- Why?

1227
01:12:37,660 --> 01:12:40,260
Because it means I'm gonna be performing
for some faceless audience...

1228
01:12:40,262 --> 01:12:42,495
instead of trying to have a
conversation with a person.

1229
01:12:42,497 --> 01:12:46,031
If you think that's faux-- You know what?
You think whatever you want.

1230
01:12:46,033 --> 01:12:49,567
I got a real, serious fear
of being a certain way.

1231
01:12:49,569 --> 01:12:53,470
And a set, I think, of real convictions
about why I'm continuing to do this.

1232
01:12:53,472 --> 01:12:56,573
Why it's worthwhile. Why it's not just
an exercise in getting my dick sucked.

1233
01:12:56,575 --> 01:12:58,274
Okay.

1234
01:12:58,276 --> 01:13:00,609
- This is such a clever tactic on your part.
- Tactic? What tactic?

1235
01:13:00,611 --> 01:13:03,111
That's right. Get me a little pissed off,
get me a little less guarded--

1236
01:13:03,113 --> 01:13:05,580
I'm gonna reveal more.
Yes, it's true.

1237
01:13:05,582 --> 01:13:07,882
- I treasure my regular guyness.
- Mm-hmm.

1238
01:13:07,884 --> 01:13:10,451
I've come to think that maybe it's
my biggest asset as a writer.

1239
01:13:10,453 --> 01:13:12,852
That I'm basically
just like everybody else.

1240
01:13:15,755 --> 01:13:19,524
You know what? I'm not doing any kind of faux
thing with you. And I'm not gonna say it again.

1241
01:13:19,526 --> 01:13:23,527
Okay. But that faux thing? What you just
said is an example of the faux thing.

1242
01:13:23,529 --> 01:13:26,028
You're not willing to risk
giving the full you.

1243
01:13:28,031 --> 01:13:31,700
I don't know if you're
a very nice man or not.

1244
01:13:31,702 --> 01:13:34,535
It's very clear you don't
believe a word that I've said.

1245
01:13:36,437 --> 01:13:39,605
All your protesting?
You know-- I'm just a regular guy?

1246
01:13:41,007 --> 01:13:43,074
You don't crack open
a thousand-page book...

1247
01:13:43,076 --> 01:13:45,342
because you heard the author
is a regular guy.

1248
01:13:45,344 --> 01:13:49,878
You do it because he's brilliant,
because you want him to be brilliant.

1249
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,880
So, who the fuck
are you kidding?

1250
01:13:55,284 --> 01:13:58,419
I don't have the brain cells left to
play any kind of faux games with you.

1251
01:13:58,421 --> 01:13:59,820
Mm-hmm.
It's fine. Yeah.

1252
01:13:59,822 --> 01:14:01,755
Yeah, it's fine.

1253
01:15:00,446 --> 01:15:02,213
What are you thinking?

1254
01:15:04,082 --> 01:15:07,284
Tour's over. Yeah.
That just hit you.

1255
01:15:07,286 --> 01:15:10,654
Yeah. I'm gonna have to
kinda feel all of this now,

1256
01:15:10,656 --> 01:15:12,789
instead of just
sleepwalk through it.

1257
01:15:12,791 --> 01:15:15,625
What do you mean
sleepwalking?

1258
01:15:16,827 --> 01:15:20,196
I've sort of unplugged myself
the past three weeks.

1259
01:15:20,198 --> 01:15:22,998
Meeting a whole lot of new
people and having to do stuff,

1260
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,368
you're in this constant
low-level state of anxiety.

1261
01:15:26,370 --> 01:15:29,370
This deep existential fear you feel
all the way down in your butt hole.

1262
01:15:30,472 --> 01:15:32,339
What are you afraid of?
I mean--

1263
01:15:32,341 --> 01:15:34,941
What's the worst
that could possibly happen?

1264
01:15:34,943 --> 01:15:38,411
The worst? That I really get to like it.
That's the worst.

1265
01:15:38,413 --> 01:15:40,112
The attention?
Yeah.

1266
01:15:43,516 --> 01:15:45,149
What would be so wrong
with that?

1267
01:15:45,151 --> 01:15:48,919
Become one
of these hideous, like--

1268
01:15:48,921 --> 01:15:51,888
"Yet another publication party.
Hey, there's Dave.

1269
01:15:51,890 --> 01:15:54,857
Stickin' his head
in the back of the photo."

1270
01:15:56,860 --> 01:16:00,696
- Rather be dead.
- Why?

1271
01:16:00,698 --> 01:16:04,799
I don't wanna be seen that way.
Why, would you?

1272
01:16:06,535 --> 01:16:10,804
Well, if you're deriving your satisfaction
from talking about your work...

1273
01:16:10,806 --> 01:16:14,140
instead of actually writing,
then yeah.

1274
01:16:14,142 --> 01:16:16,308
I mean, I guess you'd get
a lot less done.

1275
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:19,177
Exactly. There's nothing more grotesque
than somebody going around saying,

1276
01:16:19,179 --> 01:16:21,879
"I'm a writer. I'm a writer.
I'm a writer."

1277
01:16:23,147 --> 01:16:25,148
I don't mind appearing
in<i> Rolling Stone.</i>

1278
01:16:25,150 --> 01:16:27,183
I don't want to appear
in<i> Rolling Stone...</i>

1279
01:16:27,185 --> 01:16:30,319
as somebody who wants to be
in<i> Rolling Stone.</i>

1280
01:16:30,321 --> 01:16:33,855
If you see me on a game show in the
next couple of years, I swear to God--

1281
01:16:36,391 --> 01:16:38,992
To have written a book
about how seductive image is,

1282
01:16:38,994 --> 01:16:42,562
how easy it is to get seduced
off of any meaningful path...

1283
01:16:42,564 --> 01:16:44,730
because of the way
our culture is now--

1284
01:16:44,732 --> 01:16:47,398
What if I become a parody
of that very thing?

1285
01:16:49,501 --> 01:16:51,802
You know, tomorrow,
you drive away.

1286
01:16:51,804 --> 01:16:55,272
And you get on a plane,
and this whole thing is over.

1287
01:16:55,274 --> 01:16:59,309
I go back to knowing, like,
20 people.

1288
01:16:59,311 --> 01:17:02,845
I'm gonna have to decompress from all this
attention, because it's like gettin'--

1289
01:17:02,847 --> 01:17:05,914
it's like gettin' heroin
injected into your cortex.

1290
01:17:05,916 --> 01:17:09,083
And where I'm gonna need
real balls, is to...

1291
01:17:09,951 --> 01:17:13,052
sit and go through that.

1292
01:17:14,154 --> 01:17:16,822
And try to remind myself
of what the reality is--

1293
01:17:16,824 --> 01:17:21,960
that I'm 34 years old and I'm alone
in a room with a piece of paper.

1294
01:17:42,147 --> 01:17:43,880
Hey. Here ya go.

1295
01:17:43,882 --> 01:17:47,483
I'll never leave you again.
I swear.

1296
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,287
All right. Shit check.

1297
01:17:55,223 --> 01:17:56,656
Look what you did.

1298
01:17:56,658 --> 01:17:58,457
Look what you did.

1299
01:17:58,459 --> 01:18:02,461
A little excremental work.
Looks like we won't need this anymore, huh?

1300
01:18:02,463 --> 01:18:05,230
It's all right.
It happens to the best of us. Huh, boy?

1301
01:18:05,232 --> 01:18:06,798
Never fails.

1302
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:10,535
They wait to do their thing until
after the dog sitter leaves.

1303
01:18:10,537 --> 01:18:13,203
Make sure your<i> Rolling Stone</i>
readers hear about that.

1304
01:18:25,348 --> 01:18:29,117
Hey, so I'm-I'm leaving
tomorrow and, uh--

1305
01:18:31,086 --> 01:18:35,155
I gotta ask you
about this rumor.

1306
01:18:35,157 --> 01:18:36,990
Is this the heroin thing?
Yeah.

1307
01:18:36,992 --> 01:18:39,092
This is the heroin thing again?
Yeah.

1308
01:18:39,094 --> 01:18:42,328
It isn't true.
What is so hard for you to believe?

1309
01:18:42,330 --> 01:18:45,064
The reason it is so hard to believe
is because there is so much...

1310
01:18:45,066 --> 01:18:47,066
about drugs and
addiction in the book.

1311
01:18:47,068 --> 01:18:48,534
That doesn't mean that
it's autobiographical.

1312
01:18:48,536 --> 01:18:52,337
The book stuff is meant to be a metaphor.
What is--

1313
01:18:52,339 --> 01:18:54,906
You don't believe a fuckin' word
that I've said, do you?

1314
01:18:54,908 --> 01:18:56,774
I didn't say that.

1315
01:18:56,776 --> 01:18:59,710
I was not--
I never was a heroin addict.

1316
01:18:59,712 --> 01:19:04,347
Okay. The rumor I heard was that in the late
'80s, when you were at Harvard,

1317
01:19:04,349 --> 01:19:06,882
you got involved with drugs,
and you had some kind of breakdown.

1318
01:19:06,884 --> 01:19:09,251
I don't know if--

1319
01:19:09,253 --> 01:19:12,320
I don't know if I had a breakdown.
I got very, very depressed.

1320
01:19:12,322 --> 01:19:15,690
I told you that.
It had nothing to do with drugs.

1321
01:19:15,692 --> 01:19:19,226
I have spent most of my life in libraries.
I never lived that dangerous kind of life.

1322
01:19:19,228 --> 01:19:21,027
And I would never stick
a needle into my arm--

1323
01:19:21,029 --> 01:19:23,629
- Okay, so how do you think that rumor got started?
- I have no ide--

1324
01:19:23,631 --> 01:19:25,631
- I have no idea.
- All right. All right. Calm down.

1325
01:19:25,633 --> 01:19:30,435
And I'm telling you, if you were to
structure this as some sort of like,

1326
01:19:30,437 --> 01:19:33,938
"and then he spiraled into
terrible addiction" sort of thing,

1327
01:19:33,940 --> 01:19:36,140
it would be inaccurate.

1328
01:19:36,142 --> 01:19:39,877
It was much more that I got
more and more unhappy.

1329
01:19:39,879 --> 01:19:42,880
The more unhappy I got,
the more I would drink.

1330
01:19:42,882 --> 01:19:48,018
There was no joy in that drinking.
I used it for anesthesia.

1331
01:19:48,020 --> 01:19:50,587
Okay? Okay.
What kind of drinker were you?

1332
01:19:50,589 --> 01:19:53,690
Were you a kind of falling-down drinker?
Were you a "waking up in the curb" drinker?

1333
01:19:53,692 --> 01:19:56,059
No, I was not.
Okay? All right.

1334
01:19:56,061 --> 01:19:59,095
A part of my reticence
about this whole thing...

1335
01:19:59,097 --> 01:20:02,465
is that it won't make
very good copy for you.

1336
01:20:02,467 --> 01:20:04,533
Because, no,
I was not like that at all.

1337
01:20:04,535 --> 01:20:07,135
You did agree to this interview.
I know that I did.

1338
01:20:07,137 --> 01:20:08,836
All right.
I'm not gonna push much further. Sorry.

1339
01:20:08,838 --> 01:20:12,573
I am also aware that some
addictions are sexier than others.

1340
01:20:12,575 --> 01:20:16,343
My primary addiction my entire
life has been to television.

1341
01:20:16,345 --> 01:20:18,912
I told you that.
Now television addiction...

1342
01:20:18,914 --> 01:20:23,916
is of far less interest to your
readers than something like heroin...

1343
01:20:23,918 --> 01:20:25,984
that confirms the mythos
of the writer.

1344
01:20:25,986 --> 01:20:27,752
Yeah, a myth I do not believe.
Okay? Right. No.

1345
01:20:27,754 --> 01:20:30,187
I know you don't believe that.
I'm also aware that one of the things...

1346
01:20:30,189 --> 01:20:33,023
that's swirlin' around here is you want to
have the best fuckin' article you can have.

1347
01:20:33,025 --> 01:20:35,658
See, you know what? Why don't you
write whatever the fuck you want.

1348
01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:39,961
I am telling you that this was
not a<i> Lost Weekend</i> sort of thing.

1349
01:20:39,963 --> 01:20:42,897
Nor was it some lurid,
romantic,

1350
01:20:42,899 --> 01:20:44,832
"writer as alcoholic"
sort of thing.

1351
01:20:44,834 --> 01:20:47,434
What it was,
was a 28-year-old person...

1352
01:20:47,436 --> 01:20:50,870
who had really exhausted
a couple other ways to live,

1353
01:20:50,872 --> 01:20:52,938
had really taken them
to their conclusion.

1354
01:20:52,940 --> 01:20:57,175
Which for me was a pink room with a
drain in the center of the floor,

1355
01:20:57,177 --> 01:21:00,911
which is where they put me for an entire day
when they thought that I was gonna kill myself.

1356
01:21:02,546 --> 01:21:06,982
Where I got nothin' on. I got someone
observing me through a slot in the wall.

1357
01:21:08,317 --> 01:21:12,286
And when that happens to you,
you become tremendously,

1358
01:21:12,288 --> 01:21:15,422
just unprecedentedly
willing...

1359
01:21:15,424 --> 01:21:18,625
to examine some other
alternatives for how to live.

1360
01:22:18,549 --> 01:22:20,149
You awake?

1361
01:22:21,351 --> 01:22:23,585
Yeah.

1362
01:22:24,687 --> 01:22:26,520
I was just thinking, um--

1363
01:22:29,490 --> 01:22:32,458
It wasn't a chemical imbalance,
and it wasn't drugs and alcohol.

1364
01:22:32,460 --> 01:22:34,059
I think, um--

1365
01:22:35,461 --> 01:22:39,664
It was much more that I had lived
an incredibly American life.

1366
01:22:39,666 --> 01:22:46,070
This idea that if I could just achieve X
and Y and Z, that everything would be okay.

1367
01:22:51,909 --> 01:22:57,246
There's a thing in the book about how when
somebody leaps from a burning skyscraper,

1368
01:22:57,248 --> 01:22:59,481
it's not that they're not afraid
of falling anymore.

1369
01:22:59,483 --> 01:23:03,418
It's that the alternative
is so awful.

1370
01:23:03,420 --> 01:23:07,021
And so then you're invited to
consider what could be so awful...

1371
01:23:07,023 --> 01:23:11,324
that leaping to your death would
seem like an escape from it.

1372
01:23:12,993 --> 01:23:16,161
I don't know if you have any
experience with this kind of thing.

1373
01:23:16,163 --> 01:23:18,663
But it's worse than any kind
of physical injury.

1374
01:23:21,366 --> 01:23:24,668
It may be in the old days what
was known as a spiritual crisis--

1375
01:23:28,506 --> 01:23:31,074
feeling as though every axiom in
your life turned out to be false...

1376
01:23:31,076 --> 01:23:33,776
and there was actually nothing.

1377
01:23:35,044 --> 01:23:37,845
And that you were nothing.

1378
01:23:37,847 --> 01:23:42,182
And that it's all a delusion and you're
so much better than everybody...

1379
01:23:42,184 --> 01:23:44,484
'cause you can see
how this is just a delusion,

1380
01:23:44,486 --> 01:23:47,820
and you're so much worse because
you can't fucking function.

1381
01:23:51,924 --> 01:23:54,091
It's really horrible.

1382
01:23:59,930 --> 01:24:02,631
I don't think
that we ever change.

1383
01:24:06,268 --> 01:24:09,303
I'm sure that I still have
those same parts of me.

1384
01:24:15,710 --> 01:24:19,212
Guess I'm trying really hard to
find a way not to let them drive.

1385
01:24:23,116 --> 01:24:24,783
You know?

1386
01:24:33,791 --> 01:24:37,560
Hey, um, okay.
Good night.

1387
01:25:14,361 --> 01:25:16,862
Hi.

1388
01:25:16,864 --> 01:25:18,864
Okay. Hi.

1389
01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:28,205
Hey. Good morning.
Good morning.

1390
01:25:44,086 --> 01:25:45,719
Mornin', man.

1391
01:25:55,095 --> 01:25:57,896
Come on, boys.
Let's go. Good boys.

1392
01:25:59,365 --> 01:26:01,199
Come on.
What are you doing?

1393
01:26:09,140 --> 01:26:10,773
Jeeves!

1394
01:26:11,741 --> 01:26:13,374
Jeeves, come on, boy.

1395
01:26:22,116 --> 01:26:27,453
You get instantaneous production from the
Jeeve-meister. Drone's a much tougher nut.

1396
01:26:27,455 --> 01:26:31,023
- It is so beautiful out here.
- Yeah.

1397
01:26:31,025 --> 01:26:33,725
You should see it in the spring
when the wind blows.

1398
01:26:33,727 --> 01:26:37,061
You can see ripples.
It's like water.

1399
01:26:37,063 --> 01:26:40,264
- It's like the ocean, but real green.
- Mmm.

1400
01:26:40,266 --> 01:26:41,999
It really is.

1401
01:26:43,969 --> 01:26:46,602
It's kind of calm.
Real pretty.

1402
01:26:48,605 --> 01:26:51,540
You hungry?
Uh, yeah. Kind of.

1403
01:26:51,542 --> 01:26:55,543
But, um-- God,
I don't think I want to go back.

1404
01:26:56,378 --> 01:26:58,011
Yeah, I know
how you feel.

1405
01:27:02,415 --> 01:27:05,183
Should probably get going though.
Okay.

1406
01:27:05,185 --> 01:27:09,653
Hey, let me take you someplace
nice this time. It'll be on Jann.

1407
01:27:12,791 --> 01:27:14,624
Thanks for holding the bag, man.
Of course.

1408
01:27:14,626 --> 01:27:16,959
I gotta eat something.
I'm, like, suddenly starving. Mmm.

1409
01:27:22,197 --> 01:27:24,698
You don't like pickles.
Oh, come on.

1410
01:27:24,700 --> 01:27:26,433
What?
What, the whole world needs to know...

1411
01:27:26,435 --> 01:27:28,501
what my mother's known for years--
I'm a picky eater?

1412
01:27:28,503 --> 01:27:30,236
Okay, I'm putting it away.
Thank you.

1413
01:27:30,238 --> 01:27:31,737
All right.

1414
01:27:31,739 --> 01:27:33,238
Can I give 'em a fry?

1415
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:34,539
No.
Come on.

1416
01:27:34,541 --> 01:27:36,340
All right, go for it.
Hey, Jeeve-meister.

1417
01:27:36,342 --> 01:27:37,941
Hey!

1418
01:27:38,909 --> 01:27:40,175
Watch this.
What?

1419
01:27:40,177 --> 01:27:43,178
Jeeves.
Jeeves. Sit.

1420
01:27:43,180 --> 01:27:46,381
Jeeves, sit.
Sit.

1421
01:27:46,383 --> 01:27:47,982
Sit.
Perfect.

1422
01:27:47,984 --> 01:27:51,752
Sit. God. Drone gets super
obedient when food is around.

1423
01:27:51,754 --> 01:27:54,020
Jeeves is still
kind of a wild man.

1424
01:27:54,022 --> 01:27:56,989
Do not leave food out around him.
He will go for it.

1425
01:27:57,757 --> 01:27:59,758
Good boy.

1426
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:01,292
You're such a good--

1427
01:28:01,294 --> 01:28:03,894
You're not gonna make me look like
I'm one of those insane old women...

1428
01:28:03,896 --> 01:28:05,996
who talks to their dogs, are you?
Um, no.

1429
01:28:05,998 --> 01:28:07,397
Don't worry about it.

1430
01:28:07,399 --> 01:28:09,766
I am worried about it.
My dogs are gonna be offended.

1431
01:28:09,768 --> 01:28:12,435
The dogs are not gonna
read this article.

1432
01:28:12,437 --> 01:28:14,637
I gotta tell you.
Hmm?

1433
01:28:14,639 --> 01:28:17,439
They've never taken to a man
the way they've taken to you.

1434
01:28:17,441 --> 01:28:18,840
Really?
Nah.

1435
01:28:18,842 --> 01:28:20,608
Except me, of course.
Yeah. Yeah.

1436
01:28:20,610 --> 01:28:23,010
Oh. Can you hold this?

1437
01:28:23,012 --> 01:28:24,945
Yeah, of course.

1438
01:28:31,117 --> 01:28:32,684
Hello?

1439
01:28:33,452 --> 01:28:35,786
Hey.

1440
01:28:36,654 --> 01:28:38,655
Yes, I would
like to, um--

1441
01:28:38,657 --> 01:28:40,657
I can't right now.
I got this guy here.

1442
01:28:40,659 --> 01:28:42,392
<i>What guy?</i>

1443
01:28:45,228 --> 01:28:47,362
<i>Rolling Stone</i> guy,
yeah.

1444
01:28:48,263 --> 01:28:50,464
You know, can I just
meet you there?

1445
01:28:51,532 --> 01:28:54,634
Okay. Great.
Yeah, perfect.

1446
01:28:54,636 --> 01:28:56,636
I'll see you then.
Bye.

1447
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:02,039
All right.
Well, I should--

1448
01:29:02,041 --> 01:29:04,808
I should probably get out of here,
let you get on with your life.

1449
01:29:04,810 --> 01:29:09,511
That's, no-- It's--
There's just this dance that I like to go to.

1450
01:29:10,346 --> 01:29:12,146
Sorry. You dance?

1451
01:29:12,148 --> 01:29:13,814
Yeah.

1452
01:29:13,816 --> 01:29:16,216
It's something I've discovered over
the past couple years I really like.

1453
01:29:16,218 --> 01:29:17,684
Although I'm not that good
at it yet.

1454
01:29:17,686 --> 01:29:19,619
Wait, sorry.
What kind of dancing?

1455
01:29:20,554 --> 01:29:23,155
I tend to do, like,
the jerk, the swim.

1456
01:29:23,157 --> 01:29:25,857
You know, like,
cheesy '70s disco.

1457
01:29:25,859 --> 01:29:28,926
Really? Yeah. It's one of the
things about living in Bloomington.

1458
01:29:28,928 --> 01:29:31,461
It's like a time warp.
You're completely hip if you do that.

1459
01:29:31,463 --> 01:29:34,630
Yeah, right.
So, where do you go? To a club?

1460
01:29:35,598 --> 01:29:37,332
I go to
this Baptist church.

1461
01:29:38,233 --> 01:29:39,766
Why--
Why do you go there?

1462
01:29:40,300 --> 01:29:42,000
Baptists can dance.

1463
01:29:42,002 --> 01:29:45,169
Wow. Dancing.

1464
01:29:45,171 --> 01:29:46,937
I will not vogue.

1465
01:29:46,939 --> 01:29:50,206
<i>That is where I put my foot
down. I do not vogue.</i>

1466
01:29:50,208 --> 01:29:53,275
<i>Yeah. It's really cool though.
Like a lot of people show up.</i>

1467
01:29:53,277 --> 01:29:55,543
<i>And they got their
dancin' shoes on.</i>

1468
01:29:55,545 --> 01:29:59,813
<i>It's good. It's nice. Everyone for the
most part just leaves each other alone.</i>

1469
01:30:04,517 --> 01:30:07,185
<i>I thought it might be nice
before you go, if--</i>

1470
01:30:07,187 --> 01:30:11,322
uh, maybe we could exchange
address data or something?

1471
01:30:11,324 --> 01:30:12,956
Yeah. Absolutely.

1472
01:30:12,958 --> 01:30:16,292
<i>Yeah. I'll get my stuff together.
Great.</i>

1473
01:30:16,294 --> 01:30:20,362
<i>I'll start carving an ice sculpture out of my car.
It's like Antarctica out there.</i>

1474
01:30:43,084 --> 01:30:47,287
Uh, dog stuff. Throw toys.
Chew toys. Crap stains on carpet.

1475
01:30:47,289 --> 01:30:52,191
Uh, fireplace. American flag.
Shark doll on bookcase.

1476
01:30:52,193 --> 01:30:54,426
Alanis poster.
Uh, soda cans.

1477
01:30:54,428 --> 01:30:56,828
Lots of them. There's Pepsi.
There's Mountain Dew.

1478
01:30:56,830 --> 01:31:00,698
Um, looks like a frat.
A kind of bookish frat.

1479
01:31:00,700 --> 01:31:03,400
Uh, there's a Botticelli
calendar--<i> Birth of Venus.</i>

1480
01:31:03,402 --> 01:31:07,503
Uh, wooden chess set.
Postcard of Updike.

1481
01:31:07,505 --> 01:31:12,473
Um, brain comparison--
male, female, dog. Cartoon.

1482
01:31:13,875 --> 01:31:16,309
In the bedroom,
there is a Barney towel used as a curtain.

1483
01:31:16,311 --> 01:31:19,078
There is a tennis ball.
There's a dental floss on top of books.

1484
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:22,281
There's a photo collage of his family,
the kind kids put in their dorm rooms.

1485
01:31:22,283 --> 01:31:26,218
His sister is kind of pretty.
She looks like a female version of him.

1486
01:31:26,220 --> 01:31:30,321
There is, uh, stuff everywhere.
Clothes everywhere. Sneakers on the floor.

1487
01:31:30,323 --> 01:31:32,122
Clothes draped over stuff.

1488
01:31:33,958 --> 01:31:35,625
Uh--

1489
01:31:35,627 --> 01:31:38,894
Blue toilet-seat cover,
looks like a rug.

1490
01:31:38,896 --> 01:31:42,297
Postcards.
Clintons, um, baboons.

1491
01:31:42,299 --> 01:31:44,999
A Saint Ignatius quote.

1492
01:31:45,001 --> 01:31:48,002
"Lord, teach me to be generous.
Teach me to serve you as you deserve.

1493
01:31:48,004 --> 01:31:51,839
To give and not to count the cost.
To toil and not to seek for rest.

1494
01:31:51,841 --> 01:31:54,808
To labor and not to ask
for reward...

1495
01:31:54,810 --> 01:31:58,177
save that of knowing
that I do your will."

1496
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:27,260
Hey.

1497
01:33:27,262 --> 01:33:30,162
Tell you what.
Riding around in that rental of yours.

1498
01:33:30,164 --> 01:33:33,298
That feeling of gliding?
This thing doesn't even have shock absorbers.

1499
01:33:33,300 --> 01:33:34,832
What-- What is it?

1500
01:33:34,834 --> 01:33:36,433
It's just an old Civic.

1501
01:33:36,435 --> 01:33:39,536
I know it doesn't look like much.
But, man, this thing starts.

1502
01:33:39,538 --> 01:33:42,205
It's actually a problem.
Why is that a problem?

1503
01:33:42,207 --> 01:33:45,073
I gotta get a new one, but I can't junk this.
Why not?

1504
01:33:46,141 --> 01:33:47,374
It's my friend.

1505
01:33:47,376 --> 01:33:49,142
Ah.

1506
01:33:51,745 --> 01:33:53,312
Hey, David.
I, uh--

1507
01:33:54,514 --> 01:33:56,348
Wow. Just happened
to have one on you, huh?

1508
01:33:56,350 --> 01:34:00,551
Yeah. I mean, I--
I did debate whether or not I should do this.

1509
01:34:00,553 --> 01:34:02,185
Why?
I don't know.

1510
01:34:02,187 --> 01:34:05,955
Don't you think it's some kind of
kid-brother sort of thing to do?

1511
01:34:05,957 --> 01:34:09,191
No. Thank you.
I look forward to reading this.

1512
01:34:09,193 --> 01:34:13,461
Oh, you're welcome.
I put my address and e-mail on the flyleaf.

1513
01:34:13,463 --> 01:34:16,497
Oh. Okay. Cool.

1514
01:34:16,499 --> 01:34:20,767
I'll, uh-- Yeah, I'll read it after I finish
the Heinlein, and I'll send you a note.

1515
01:34:20,769 --> 01:34:23,770
That's great.
Thanks.

1516
01:34:23,772 --> 01:34:26,638
Be interesting to be inside
your head for a while.

1517
01:34:28,574 --> 01:34:31,442
I like your cover.
Yeah. Yeah, me too.

1518
01:34:31,444 --> 01:34:34,778
I actually had them use the same
art for the British edition.

1519
01:34:34,780 --> 01:34:37,113
Come on.
You got approval, and I d--

1520
01:34:42,218 --> 01:34:43,618
It's nice.
It's very nice.

1521
01:34:43,620 --> 01:34:47,221
Don't worry about it.
It was not such a-- not such a big success.

1522
01:35:06,140 --> 01:35:09,008
Hey, isn't it at all reassuring to
have a lot of people read you...

1523
01:35:09,010 --> 01:35:11,743
and, you know,
say that you're a really strong writer?

1524
01:35:14,079 --> 01:35:16,780
It'll be interesting to
talk to you in a few years.

1525
01:35:16,782 --> 01:35:18,615
Why do you say that?

1526
01:35:19,783 --> 01:35:22,718
My experience is that
that is not so.

1527
01:35:25,054 --> 01:35:27,188
The more people think
you're really great,

1528
01:35:27,190 --> 01:35:29,957
actually the bigger the fear
of being a fraud is, you know?

1529
01:35:29,959 --> 01:35:33,093
The worst thing about getting a
lot of attention paid to you...

1530
01:35:33,095 --> 01:35:35,061
is that you're afraid
of bad attention.

1531
01:35:35,063 --> 01:35:37,596
And if bad attention
hurts you,

1532
01:35:37,598 --> 01:35:41,432
the caliber of the weapon
pointing at you has gone way up.

1533
01:35:41,434 --> 01:35:44,802
Like from a .22 to a .45.
Mmm.

1534
01:35:44,804 --> 01:35:48,571
Look, there are parts of me that want a lot
of attention and think I'm really great...

1535
01:35:48,573 --> 01:35:51,106
and want other people
to see it.

1536
01:35:53,142 --> 01:35:56,844
I think that's one of the ways you
and I are sort of alike, you know?

1537
01:35:58,279 --> 01:36:01,914
All right. Hey, uh--
All right.

1538
01:36:07,820 --> 01:36:09,921
Fuck. David.

1539
01:36:14,125 --> 01:36:16,392
I'm not so sure
you want to be me.

1540
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:18,827
I don't.

1541
01:36:19,795 --> 01:36:22,229
Give my best to Jann.

1542
01:38:22,648 --> 01:38:24,849
<i>"When I think of this trip,</i>

1543
01:38:24,851 --> 01:38:28,985
<i>I see David and me
in the front seat of his car.</i>

1544
01:38:28,987 --> 01:38:31,787
<i>We are both so young.</i>

1545
01:38:31,789 --> 01:38:34,022
<i>He wants something better
than he has.</i>

1546
01:38:34,024 --> 01:38:37,592
<i>I want precisely
what he has already.</i>

1547
01:38:37,594 --> 01:38:41,228
Neither of us knows where
our lives are going to go.

1548
01:38:42,563 --> 01:38:44,931
It smells like
chewing tobacco,

1549
01:38:44,933 --> 01:38:48,501
soda and smoke.

1550
01:38:48,503 --> 01:38:52,571
And the conversation is
the best one I ever had.

1551
01:38:57,743 --> 01:39:02,846
<i>David thought books existed
to stop you from feeling lonely.</i>

1552
01:39:02,848 --> 01:39:06,316
<i>If I could, I'd say to David that
living those days with him...</i>

1553
01:39:06,318 --> 01:39:08,184
<i>reminded me
of what life is like,</i>

1554
01:39:08,186 --> 01:39:12,087
instead of being
a relief from it.

1555
01:39:13,522 --> 01:39:17,124
And I'd tell him it made
me feel much less alone."

1556
01:40:49,282 --> 01:40:50,949
I need to use your bathroom
for a second.

1557
01:40:50,951 --> 01:40:53,551
I believe it's unoccupied.

1558
01:41:07,262 --> 01:41:09,630
It's me talkin'
into the tape recorder.

1559
01:41:13,034 --> 01:41:16,836
And Drone's sittin' behind me
just chillin' out.

1560
01:41:16,838 --> 01:41:20,673
I'm smoking. Having just said
I wouldn't smoke, I'm smoking.

1561
01:41:23,710 --> 01:41:26,144
Just me and your tape recorder.