1
00:00:21,788 --> 00:00:23,789
(♫ by Rodriguez)
2
00:00:30,172 --> 00:00:34,717
♫ Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
3
00:00:35,886 --> 00:00:39,972
♫ Cos I'm tired of these scenes
4
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,061
♫ For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
5
00:00:46,229 --> 00:00:50,191
♫ All those colours to my dreams?
6
00:00:51,735 --> 00:00:56,655
♫ Silver magic ships, you carry
7
00:00:57,115 --> 00:01:01,952
♫ Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
8
00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:06,665
♫ Sugar Man
9
00:01:06,875 --> 00:01:09,460
(Stephen Segerman)
I got my nickname from this song.
10
00:01:09,544 --> 00:01:13,923
When I was in the Army they used to
mispronounce Segerman as Sugar Man.
11
00:01:14,007 --> 00:01:17,218
And then they just started calling me
Sugar and that became my nickname.
12
00:01:18,261 --> 00:01:23,808
It's 40 years since this LP called
Cold Fact by Rodriguez was released.
13
00:01:24,434 --> 00:01:27,478
And in South Africa
it was a very popular album.
14
00:01:27,562 --> 00:01:30,356
It was one of the biggest albums
of the day.
15
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,526
But the thing was,
we didn't know who this guy was.
16
00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:36,695
All our other rock stars,
we had all the information we needed.
17
00:01:36,780 --> 00:01:39,198
But this guy? There was nothing.
18
00:01:39,282 --> 00:01:42,618
And then we found out
that he had committed suicide.
19
00:01:42,702 --> 00:01:47,540
He set himself alight on stage and
burnt to death in front of the audience.
20
00:01:48,250 --> 00:01:51,377
It was the most incredible thing.
It wasn't just a suicide.
21
00:01:51,461 --> 00:01:55,256
It was probably the most
grotesque suicide in rock history.
22
00:03:36,733 --> 00:03:38,359
(thunder crashing)
23
00:04:07,639 --> 00:04:12,268
(Dennis Coffey) The first time that
I remember actually recognising him is
24
00:04:12,352 --> 00:04:14,853
Mike Theodore called me
on the phone one day and said,
25
00:04:14,938 --> 00:04:17,815
''I have this artist
I want you to come see with me.
26
00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:19,692
''This guy's name is Rodriguez,
27
00:04:19,776 --> 00:04:21,735
''he's working down by the Detroit River.
28
00:04:21,820 --> 00:04:23,654
''There's a bar down there,
29
00:04:23,738 --> 00:04:26,282
''down by the wharf riverside district.
30
00:04:26,366 --> 00:04:27,741
''Let's go see him tonight.
31
00:04:27,826 --> 00:04:29,076
''I think you'll really like him.''
32
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,455
So that night, I remember,
we pull up...
33
00:04:33,581 --> 00:04:36,709
away in this kinda isolated
part of Detroit
34
00:04:36,793 --> 00:04:38,836
right on the side of the Detroit River,
35
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,756
and you could see the mist in the air
coming off the river. We could feel it.
36
00:04:42,841 --> 00:04:46,552
And we went inside there,
and as we walked in the door,
37
00:04:46,636 --> 00:04:49,346
we could hear behind us
the sound of the freighters
38
00:04:49,431 --> 00:04:51,140
as they're going down the river,
39
00:04:51,224 --> 00:04:54,560
and so it's like you're walking out
of a Sherlock Holmes novel.
40
00:04:54,644 --> 00:04:58,022
You walk out of the mist
and you go into this place,
41
00:04:58,106 --> 00:05:00,566
and inside the place,
it's all full of smoke,
42
00:05:00,650 --> 00:05:02,276
so there's a mist inside there.
43
00:05:02,694 --> 00:05:05,904
(Mike Theodore) Boom, hey, you know,
it's a wall of smoke.
44
00:05:06,865 --> 00:05:10,576
Beer all over the place. Peanut shells.
It was just a mess.
45
00:05:10,660 --> 00:05:14,663
And then you hear this strumming sound.
46
00:05:15,248 --> 00:05:16,707
Strumming and batting the guitar.
47
00:05:16,791 --> 00:05:18,709
(mimics guitar batting)
48
00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:24,256
And then you hear this voice.
Strange voice.
49
00:05:24,341 --> 00:05:26,717
(Coffey) Finally, we walked
through the smoke, and I looked,
50
00:05:26,801 --> 00:05:29,261
and there in the far corner I saw...
51
00:05:29,346 --> 00:05:32,681
I could see the shadow of a man
and I couldn't see his face.
52
00:05:32,766 --> 00:05:35,726
I said, ''What's the deal?''
So we got a little closer...
53
00:05:37,395 --> 00:05:41,690
(Theodore) And you see this guy
with his back to you.
54
00:05:42,359 --> 00:05:46,737
So all you see is his back
and he's in a corner, singing.
55
00:05:47,364 --> 00:05:50,949
It was an ethereal scene, if you will.
56
00:05:51,034 --> 00:05:56,455
Foggy night, foghorns, smoke so thick
you couldn't see through it.
57
00:05:57,207 --> 00:05:59,083
And here's this voice.
58
00:05:59,626 --> 00:06:01,627
(Coffey) Maybe it forced you
to listen to the lyrics
59
00:06:01,711 --> 00:06:03,712
'cause you couldn't see the guy's face.
60
00:06:03,797 --> 00:06:07,091
That's when we talked to him and figured
we needed to do an album on him.
61
00:06:07,175 --> 00:06:11,470
The only writer that I had heard of,
of that time period,
62
00:06:11,554 --> 00:06:15,057
was maybe Bob Dylan,
that was writing that well.
63
00:06:17,519 --> 00:06:20,062
(♫ Crucify Your Mind by Rodriguez)
64
00:06:38,540 --> 00:06:41,333
♫ Was it a huntsman or a player
65
00:06:41,418 --> 00:06:44,044
♫ That made you pay the cost
66
00:06:44,129 --> 00:06:47,005
♫ That now assumes relaxed positions
67
00:06:47,090 --> 00:06:49,800
♫ And prostitutes your loss?
68
00:06:49,884 --> 00:06:52,678
♫ Were you tortured by your own thirst
69
00:06:52,762 --> 00:06:55,431
♫ In those pleasures that you seek
70
00:06:55,515 --> 00:06:58,183
♫ That made you Tom the Curious
71
00:06:58,268 --> 00:07:01,145
♫ That makes you James the Weak?
72
00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:15,451
♫ And you claim you got something going
73
00:07:18,163 --> 00:07:20,956
♫ Something you call unique
74
00:07:24,127 --> 00:07:27,296
♫ But I've seen your self-pity showing
75
00:07:29,757 --> 00:07:32,843
♫ As the tears roll down your cheeks
76
00:07:35,054 --> 00:07:38,390
(Dan DiMaggio) He was this
wandering spirit around the city.
77
00:07:38,475 --> 00:07:42,102
And, uh, sometimes
I might catch him in the corner.
78
00:07:42,187 --> 00:07:45,647
You know, Detroit's got its share of,
uh, burned-out, desolate areas
79
00:07:45,773 --> 00:07:48,942
and I would occasionally see him, um,
80
00:07:50,195 --> 00:07:51,987
far away from The Brewery,
and I wondered,
81
00:07:52,071 --> 00:07:55,324
and it just added
to this mythology of him.
82
00:07:55,408 --> 00:07:59,119
Like, what is he doing?
What is he doing? What does he do?
83
00:07:59,204 --> 00:08:03,790
I heard he did a little roofing,
some construction work.
84
00:08:03,875 --> 00:08:06,960
Um, I think that's how he got his money
at the time.
85
00:08:07,045 --> 00:08:09,671
He just was, you know,
and I say this with love,
86
00:08:09,797 --> 00:08:12,132
I say this with respect, but,
87
00:08:12,217 --> 00:08:14,218
I thought he was just a...
88
00:08:14,886 --> 00:08:19,097
just not much more than a kind of
a homeless person, you know?
89
00:08:19,182 --> 00:08:22,226
He just was a drifter.
He was just... Um...
90
00:08:23,311 --> 00:08:26,188
I didn't know if he had a home,
you know?
91
00:08:26,231 --> 00:08:30,275
He'd look like maybe he'd go
from shelter to shelter or something.
92
00:08:35,949 --> 00:08:38,116
(Coffey) Detroit in the '70s
was a hard place.
93
00:08:38,201 --> 00:08:39,785
Well, it's still a hard place.
94
00:08:39,869 --> 00:08:44,998
Lot of decay, lots of ruined houses.
Real poverty exists in this city.
95
00:08:45,083 --> 00:08:48,460
And those streets
were Rodriguez's natural habitat.
96
00:08:48,545 --> 00:08:51,672
Any time we met him
to talk about what we were doing,
97
00:08:51,798 --> 00:08:55,676
he would always meet us on a corner
somewhere in his neighbourhood.
98
00:08:55,802 --> 00:08:58,262
Most of the time
he wasn't coming to my house.
99
00:08:58,346 --> 00:09:01,390
He'd say, ''Meet me on the corner
of this street and that street,''
100
00:09:01,474 --> 00:09:02,975
and we would be there.
101
00:09:03,059 --> 00:09:06,186
Uh, Mike and I would get out of our cars
and park our cars,
102
00:09:06,271 --> 00:09:07,646
so we'd be standing on the corner,
103
00:09:07,730 --> 00:09:09,398
and then we'd look round
and he'd be there all of a sudden.
104
00:09:09,482 --> 00:09:10,941
He'd just show up.
105
00:09:11,025 --> 00:09:13,860
We thought he was like
the inner city poet.
106
00:09:13,945 --> 00:09:17,531
You know? Putting his poems to music
of what he saw.
107
00:09:18,157 --> 00:09:20,826
And it was definitely a very gritty look
108
00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:23,078
at what he saw
on the streets of Detroit.
109
00:09:23,162 --> 00:09:26,665
What he saw in his neighbourhood.
Who was walking around the streets.
110
00:09:26,833 --> 00:09:31,837
And the way he presented it in a song,
I thought was very, very interesting.
111
00:09:32,589 --> 00:09:36,133
(Theodore) We were working
at Tera-Shirma recording studio.
112
00:09:36,175 --> 00:09:40,596
When he opened up and sang,
you went, ''Whoa, this guy's got it.''
113
00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:46,018
Rodriguez, at that time,
had all the machinery in place.
114
00:09:47,186 --> 00:09:50,939
Big names, big money behind it.
Circumstances were right.
115
00:09:51,024 --> 00:09:55,694
Why didn't it make it? That's the
big question that today still haunts me.
116
00:09:55,778 --> 00:09:59,448
Did he get enough promotion?
Did he do enough performances?
117
00:10:00,283 --> 00:10:02,034
Was he too political?
118
00:10:03,870 --> 00:10:05,662
Was there this or was there that?
119
00:10:05,705 --> 00:10:07,956
Should it have been green
instead of orange?
120
00:10:08,041 --> 00:10:11,126
Should it have been a violin
instead of an oboe?
121
00:10:11,210 --> 00:10:13,003
On and on you can go.
122
00:10:13,796 --> 00:10:17,633
But the end of the day is, if you
listen to the stuff now, you'd say,
123
00:10:17,717 --> 00:10:20,677
''I don't understand it, he's right-on.''
124
00:10:23,348 --> 00:10:24,973
(Jerome Ferretti)
I only heard him play once,
125
00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:29,519
and one of the songs that
he had on his album, it was called...
126
00:10:30,897 --> 00:10:34,399
The Sugar Man? Was it Sugar Man?
Is that the name of the song?
127
00:10:34,525 --> 00:10:37,361
Um, I knew that guy, the Sugar Man.
128
00:10:37,403 --> 00:10:40,739
And his name was Volkswagen Cha...
Volkswagen Frank!
129
00:10:40,823 --> 00:10:42,240
And he lived right around the corner
130
00:10:42,367 --> 00:10:44,493
and you used to go over
to Volkswagen Frank's.
131
00:10:44,577 --> 00:10:47,704
You'd go in and get a little ''sugar,''
if you know what I mean.
132
00:10:47,747 --> 00:10:49,206
(♫ Sugar man by Rodriguez)
133
00:10:49,248 --> 00:10:52,668
♫ Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
134
00:10:53,586 --> 00:10:57,589
♫ Cos I'm tired of these scenes
135
00:10:58,257 --> 00:11:02,761
♫ For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
136
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:07,933
♫ All those colours to my dreams?
137
00:11:09,394 --> 00:11:14,272
♫ Silver magic ships, you carry
138
00:11:14,774 --> 00:11:19,611
♫ Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
139
00:11:22,448 --> 00:11:24,408
♫ Sugar Man
140
00:11:25,034 --> 00:11:27,285
♫ Met a false friend
141
00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:31,957
♫ On a lonely, dusty road
142
00:11:32,542 --> 00:11:34,459
♫ Lost my heart
143
00:11:35,753 --> 00:11:38,797
I got some photos here
that I'd like to show you
144
00:11:38,965 --> 00:11:44,636
that I've kept since my days in England
with Rodriguez.
145
00:11:44,762 --> 00:11:46,388
Let me see.
146
00:11:46,431 --> 00:11:49,808
Possibly it's in this book,
I don't know where.
147
00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:54,229
These are all my photos
from when I was acting.
148
00:11:54,313 --> 00:11:58,442
That's me, and that's Jimmy Dean.
That was in 1955.
149
00:11:58,484 --> 00:12:02,821
Hang on, I think I've found them.
Think they're in here.
150
00:12:04,574 --> 00:12:06,324
Yeah, here they are.
151
00:12:07,452 --> 00:12:10,287
Wow. Good Lord, here they are.
152
00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:15,333
You know, I haven't seen these pictures
in almost 35 years.
153
00:12:18,296 --> 00:12:20,505
He's my most memorable artist.
154
00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:24,176
You know, I've produced
a lot of great ones, but...
155
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,680
he's my most memorable.
156
00:12:29,307 --> 00:12:31,183
It's not just a talent.
157
00:12:32,518 --> 00:12:33,935
He's like...
158
00:12:34,437 --> 00:12:37,439
He's like a wise man, a prophet.
159
00:12:37,482 --> 00:12:41,193
He's way beyond
just being a musical artist.
160
00:12:41,861 --> 00:12:44,362
And he probably could have done
fantastically well
161
00:12:44,489 --> 00:12:45,864
if he had have continued.
162
00:12:45,948 --> 00:12:49,951
When I met him, they said,
''Rodriguez, this is Steve Rowland.
163
00:12:50,036 --> 00:12:52,871
''He really likes your album.''
And Rodriguez said to me,
164
00:12:52,955 --> 00:12:56,166
''Well, did you like Cold Facts?''
165
00:12:56,209 --> 00:12:58,835
I said, ''Man, I thought
it was absolutely brilliant.
166
00:12:58,878 --> 00:13:00,378
''Absolutely brilliant.
167
00:13:00,463 --> 00:13:04,216
''I can't believe that this album
didn't do anything.
168
00:13:04,342 --> 00:13:06,885
''It's just a fantastic album.''
169
00:13:07,053 --> 00:13:08,512
So he played me...
170
00:13:08,554 --> 00:13:12,724
Well, his next album was on...
In those days you had cassettes.
171
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:17,312
He had demos of this next album that
he was gonna call Coming From Reality.
172
00:13:17,396 --> 00:13:22,567
And I said, ''Wow, man,
this has got to be a smash.
173
00:13:22,693 --> 00:13:24,236
''These are great songs.
174
00:13:24,362 --> 00:13:29,908
''Little bit... Little bit different from
the others,'' I said, ''but great songs.''
175
00:13:30,409 --> 00:13:33,245
I said, ''And a couple of them
were so sad.'' You know.
176
00:13:33,329 --> 00:13:36,581
There's one in there
that's absolutely a killer.
177
00:13:36,707 --> 00:13:38,708
It's one of the saddest songs that...
178
00:13:38,751 --> 00:13:43,839
I'm laughing, but it's one of
the saddest songs that I've ever heard.
179
00:13:43,923 --> 00:13:47,217
And it's a very simple song.
Hang on, I wanna play this. Hang on.
180
00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:49,511
Okay, listen to these words.
181
00:13:49,554 --> 00:13:51,429
<♫ Cause by Rodriguez)
182
00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:05,026
♫ 'Cause I lost my job
183
00:14:07,738 --> 00:14:10,448
♫ Two weeks before Christmas
184
00:14:11,117 --> 00:14:12,742
Oh, man.
185
00:14:15,913 --> 00:14:19,040
♫ And I talked to Jesus at The Sewer
186
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,796
♫ And the Pope said it was
none of his goddamn business
187
00:14:29,468 --> 00:14:32,387
♫ While the rain drank champagne
188
00:14:34,473 --> 00:14:38,310
♫ My Estonian Archangel
came and got me wasted
189
00:14:42,899 --> 00:14:46,234
♫ 'Cause the sweetest kiss I ever got
190
00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:51,448
♫ Is the one I've never tasted
191
00:14:54,619 --> 00:14:57,579
(Rowland)
And it really makes me sad, because...
192
00:14:57,622 --> 00:15:00,415
that was the last song that we recorded.
193
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,544
And that was the last song
that Rodriguez ever recorded.
194
00:15:06,631 --> 00:15:10,216
And what makes it even sadder
195
00:15:10,343 --> 00:15:13,678
was the album was released
in November of 1971,
196
00:15:14,972 --> 00:15:18,975
and we expected big things.
And it did absolutely nothing.
197
00:15:21,354 --> 00:15:24,356
And then, two weeks before Christmas,
198
00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:28,318
Sussex dropped him off the label.
199
00:15:28,861 --> 00:15:33,490
And the very first line in the song,
as if premonition,
200
00:15:33,532 --> 00:15:37,410
was, ''I lost my job
two weeks before Christmas.''
201
00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:42,499
Oh, man. I just think about that.
202
00:15:43,668 --> 00:15:47,671
This guy deserves recognition.
203
00:15:48,047 --> 00:15:52,050
Nobody in America had even heard of him.
204
00:15:53,552 --> 00:15:54,886
Nobody...
205
00:15:57,264 --> 00:16:00,350
Nobody even was interested
in listening to him.
206
00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:07,399
How can that be? How can that be?
Guy that writes like this.
207
00:16:08,734 --> 00:16:10,235
I mean...
208
00:16:11,737 --> 00:16:15,365
♫ 'Cause they told me
everybody's gotta pay their dues
209
00:16:16,909 --> 00:16:20,078
♫ And I explained that
I had overpaid them
210
00:16:25,459 --> 00:16:27,961
♫ 'Cause the smell of her perfume
211
00:16:30,965 --> 00:16:34,759
♫ Echoes in my head still
212
00:17:04,123 --> 00:17:06,124
(♫ I Wonder by Rodriguez)
213
00:17:18,137 --> 00:17:22,474
♫ I wonder
how many times you've been had
214
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:27,145
♫ And I wonder
how many plans have gone bad
215
00:17:27,188 --> 00:17:31,483
♫ I wonder how many times you had sex
216
00:17:31,525 --> 00:17:36,154
♫ And I wonder,
do you know who'll be next?
217
00:17:37,323 --> 00:17:39,824
(Segerman) It's still a bit of a mystery
how the first copy of Cold Fact
218
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:41,367
actually came to South Africa.
219
00:17:41,494 --> 00:17:42,994
But one of the stories I've heard
220
00:17:43,037 --> 00:17:45,455
is that there was an American girl
and she came to South Africa
221
00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:49,167
to visit her boyfriend and brought
a copy of the record with her.
222
00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,878
And her and him and all their friends
really liked it
223
00:17:52,004 --> 00:17:54,547
and went out to try and buy it
but you couldn't buy it.
224
00:17:54,673 --> 00:17:57,634
So they started taping copies
and passing copies along.
225
00:17:57,676 --> 00:18:00,512
However it got here,
however it germinated here,
226
00:18:00,638 --> 00:18:04,015
once it got here,
it spread very quickly.
227
00:18:04,642 --> 00:18:06,851
♫ How much goin' have you got
228
00:18:06,894 --> 00:18:11,397
♫ And I wonder
about your friends that are not
229
00:18:11,524 --> 00:18:13,858
♫ I wonder
230
00:18:13,984 --> 00:18:15,485
♫ I wonder
231
00:18:19,406 --> 00:18:21,658
♫ Wonder I do
232
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,078
(Willem Möller)
I remember I was in high school
233
00:18:26,038 --> 00:18:30,375
and we heard this song, ''I wonder
how many times you've had sex?''
234
00:18:30,417 --> 00:18:33,044
And at that time South Africa
was very conservative.
235
00:18:33,087 --> 00:18:35,421
It was the height of apartheid,
236
00:18:36,173 --> 00:18:38,383
and there wasn't television here.
237
00:18:38,425 --> 00:18:41,886
That's how conservative it was,
'cause television was communist.
238
00:18:41,929 --> 00:18:44,681
It was really... You wouldn't believe.
239
00:18:45,891 --> 00:18:47,725
Everything was restricted,
everything was censored.
240
00:18:47,852 --> 00:18:49,227
Everything was...
241
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:51,437
And here's this guy singing this song.
242
00:18:51,564 --> 00:18:54,232
''Who's that?'' Said, ''That's Rodriguez.''
243
00:18:54,275 --> 00:18:58,570
And he became something
of a rebel sort of icon.
244
00:18:59,071 --> 00:19:01,781
But the strange thing was
that we all bought his records.
245
00:19:01,866 --> 00:19:04,742
Everybody I knew had his records.
I Wonder,
246
00:19:05,411 --> 00:19:07,036
that was the big song
that everybody was singing
247
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:08,580
and we all bought a record.
248
00:19:08,622 --> 00:19:12,292
And there he was on the cover,
sort of a hippy with shades.
249
00:19:12,418 --> 00:19:15,545
But nobody knew anything about him.
He was a mystery.
250
00:19:15,588 --> 00:19:19,465
Unlike other artists
that you could read about from America,
251
00:19:19,592 --> 00:19:24,095
get to know something about them,
there was zilch. Nobody knew anything.
252
00:19:24,138 --> 00:19:28,433
It was a mystery. We only had
his picture on the cover of the record.
253
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:29,934
(♫ Jane S. Piddy by Rodriguez)
254
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:34,647
♫ Now you sit there thinking
Feeling insecure
255
00:19:34,773 --> 00:19:39,986
♫ The mocking court jester
Claims there is no proven cure
256
00:19:40,779 --> 00:19:45,825
♫ Go back to your chamber
Your eyes upon the wall
257
00:19:45,910 --> 00:19:51,664
♫ Cos you got no one to listen
You got no one to call
258
00:19:53,667 --> 00:19:55,793
♫ And you think I'm curious
259
00:19:55,836 --> 00:19:57,253
(Segerman) The album
was exceptionally popular.
260
00:19:57,296 --> 00:20:00,965
To many of us South Africans,
he was the soundtrack to our lives.
261
00:20:01,008 --> 00:20:03,760
In the mid-'70s,
if you walked into a random
262
00:20:03,802 --> 00:20:05,762
white, liberal,
middle-class household
263
00:20:05,804 --> 00:20:08,348
that had a turntable
and a pile of pop records
264
00:20:08,474 --> 00:20:11,100
and if you flipped through the records
you would always see
265
00:20:11,143 --> 00:20:12,810
Abbey Road by The Beatles.
266
00:20:12,937 --> 00:20:14,938
You would always see
Bridge Over Troubled Water
267
00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:16,481
by Simon and Garfunkel.
268
00:20:16,523 --> 00:20:19,150
And you would always see
Cold Fact by Rodriguez.
269
00:20:19,276 --> 00:20:22,320
To us, it was one of the most
famous records of all time.
270
00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:25,782
The message it had was:
''Be anti-establishment.''
271
00:20:25,824 --> 00:20:28,159
One song's called
Anti-Establishment Blues.
272
00:20:28,285 --> 00:20:29,953
We didn't know what the word
''anti-establishment'' was
273
00:20:29,995 --> 00:20:33,122
until it cropped up on a Rodriguez song
and then we found out,
274
00:20:33,165 --> 00:20:36,167
it's OK to protest against your society,
275
00:20:36,293 --> 00:20:39,087
to be angry with your society.
276
00:20:39,838 --> 00:20:42,340
Because we lived in a society
277
00:20:42,508 --> 00:20:45,927
where every means was used
to prevent apartheid from,
278
00:20:46,929 --> 00:20:49,013
you know, coming to an end,
279
00:20:50,349 --> 00:20:53,518
this album somehow had in it...
280
00:20:53,602 --> 00:20:59,607
lyrics that almost set us free
as oppressed peoples.
281
00:21:01,277 --> 00:21:03,361
Any revolution needs an anthem
282
00:21:03,404 --> 00:21:06,239
and in South Africa
Cold Fact was the album
283
00:21:06,365 --> 00:21:08,783
that gave people permission
284
00:21:08,867 --> 00:21:13,955
to free their minds
and to start thinking differently.
285
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:15,540
(♫ The Establishment Blues by Rodriguez)
286
00:21:15,582 --> 00:21:18,251
♫ The mayor hides the crime rate
Council woman hesitates
287
00:21:18,377 --> 00:21:22,130
♫ Public gets irate
But forgets the vote date
288
00:21:22,214 --> 00:21:26,217
♫ This system's gonna fall soon
To an angry young tune
289
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:28,761
♫ And that's a concrete cold fact
290
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:32,390
(Segerman) It may seem strange
that South African record companies
291
00:21:32,558 --> 00:21:34,934
didn't do more
to try and track down Rodriguez,
292
00:21:34,977 --> 00:21:36,936
but, actually,
if you look back at the time
293
00:21:36,979 --> 00:21:39,939
we were in the middle of apartheid,
the height of apartheid.
294
00:21:39,982 --> 00:21:43,151
South Africa was under sanctions
from countries from all over the world.
295
00:21:43,235 --> 00:21:45,737
South African musicians
were not allowed to play overseas.
296
00:21:45,821 --> 00:21:48,906
No foreign acts
were allowed to visit South Africa.
297
00:21:48,949 --> 00:21:50,992
It was a closed-door situation
298
00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,161
between South Africa
and the rest of the world.
299
00:21:53,245 --> 00:21:57,165
♫ Woke up this morning
with an ache in my head
300
00:21:57,249 --> 00:22:01,085
♫ I splashed on my clothes
as I spilled out of bed
301
00:22:01,128 --> 00:22:05,256
♫ I opened the window
to listen to the news
302
00:22:05,299 --> 00:22:09,969
♫ But all I heard
was the establishment's blues
303
00:22:10,012 --> 00:22:12,263
(Segerman) The countries around
the world were saying horrible things
304
00:22:12,306 --> 00:22:13,765
about the apartheid government
305
00:22:13,849 --> 00:22:16,934
but we didn't know
because they controlled the news.
306
00:22:17,019 --> 00:22:20,271
The majority of the population
had been marginalised
307
00:22:20,314 --> 00:22:23,816
and forced out of the commerce in areas.
308
00:22:23,942 --> 00:22:25,693
It was what had happened
in Nazi Germany.
309
00:22:25,778 --> 00:22:27,653
It was a spin-off from Nazi Germany,
310
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:30,698
but if a newspaper published it,
they'd get prosecuted.
311
00:22:30,783 --> 00:22:34,786
So, because of that, South Africa had
achieved a pariah status in the world.
312
00:22:34,828 --> 00:22:37,622
There were cultural boycotts.
There were sporting boycotts.
313
00:22:37,664 --> 00:22:41,125
It was a very isolated society.
So we were cut off.
314
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:42,794
We all knew apartheid was wrong,
315
00:22:42,878 --> 00:22:44,045
but living in South Africa,
316
00:22:44,129 --> 00:22:45,463
there wasn't much, as a white person,
317
00:22:45,631 --> 00:22:46,798
you could do about it,
318
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,633
'cause the government was very strict.
319
00:22:48,717 --> 00:22:50,802
It was a military state,
to a large degree.
320
00:22:50,886 --> 00:22:52,387
If you spoke out against apartheid,
321
00:22:52,471 --> 00:22:54,472
you could be thrown into prison
for three years.
322
00:22:54,515 --> 00:22:57,809
So although a lot of whites
were part of the struggle,
323
00:22:57,851 --> 00:22:59,519
the majority of whites were not.
324
00:22:59,645 --> 00:23:03,981
You were watched. There were spies.
It was scary and people were scared.
325
00:23:04,066 --> 00:23:06,901
But out of the Afrikaans
community emerged
326
00:23:06,985 --> 00:23:09,987
a group of Afrikaans
musicians, songwriters,
327
00:23:10,072 --> 00:23:14,325
and for them, when they heard Rodriguez,
it was like a voice spoke to them
328
00:23:14,410 --> 00:23:18,329
and said, ''Guys, there's a way out.
There's a way out.
329
00:23:18,372 --> 00:23:21,499
''You can write music.
You can write imagery.
330
00:23:21,667 --> 00:23:23,167
''You can sing, you can perform.''
331
00:23:23,252 --> 00:23:27,004
And that was where, really,
the first opposition to apartheid
332
00:23:27,089 --> 00:23:29,674
came from inside
the Afrikaans community.
333
00:23:29,758 --> 00:23:33,177
It was these young Afrikaans guys
and, to a man,
334
00:23:33,220 --> 00:23:35,763
they'll tell you
they were influenced by Rodriguez.
335
00:23:35,848 --> 00:23:38,015
Koos Kombuis. Willem Möller.
336
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,892
The late Johannes Kerkorrel.
337
00:23:40,018 --> 00:23:45,523
The guys who were regarded as the icons
of the Afrikaans music revolution
338
00:23:45,691 --> 00:23:48,067
will all tell you,
''Rodriguez was our guy.''
339
00:23:48,193 --> 00:23:49,861
(speaking Afrikaans)
340
00:23:51,864 --> 00:23:53,739
(Möller)
We call it the Voëlvry movement
341
00:23:53,866 --> 00:23:56,367
of Afrikaans artists
singing against apartheid.
342
00:23:56,452 --> 00:23:59,245
All of us listened to Rodriguez
at some point. All of us.
343
00:23:59,371 --> 00:24:01,372
It had an enormous impact.
344
00:24:01,457 --> 00:24:03,958
It made you just think
that there's another way.
345
00:24:04,376 --> 00:24:08,254
What's presented to you
by the establishment isn't all theirs.
346
00:24:08,380 --> 00:24:10,047
(rock music playing)
347
00:24:10,090 --> 00:24:12,884
♫ Set if off, set if off
♫ Set if off, set if off
348
00:24:13,051 --> 00:24:16,804
♫ Set if off, set if off
♫ Set if off, set if off
349
00:24:16,889 --> 00:24:19,432
(Möller) The biggest hit
was a song called Set It Off
350
00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:22,810
which was when PW Botha
was the president then.
351
00:24:22,895 --> 00:24:26,731
The real bad guy. When he came on TV,
he used to talk like that.
352
00:24:28,317 --> 00:24:30,985
And this song said, ''switch it off,
just switch off the TV.''
353
00:24:39,786 --> 00:24:41,162
(male interviewer)
So what lines do you think
354
00:24:41,246 --> 00:24:42,830
were the lines they had problem with?
355
00:24:42,915 --> 00:24:44,415
Ah, gee whiz, it's all of them.
356
00:24:44,917 --> 00:24:47,627
''Sugar Man, won't you hurry
Cos I'm tired of these scenes
357
00:24:47,753 --> 00:24:52,089
''For a blue coin, won't you bring back
all those colours to my dreams?''
358
00:24:52,132 --> 00:24:54,008
The most difficult ones is probably
359
00:24:54,092 --> 00:24:58,471
''Silver magic ships, you carry
Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane.''
360
00:24:58,597 --> 00:25:00,181
And what is that?
361
00:25:00,766 --> 00:25:02,141
Uh...
362
00:25:02,434 --> 00:25:03,851
I'm gonna leave that to you.
363
00:25:03,936 --> 00:25:05,353
(both chuckle)
364
00:25:05,437 --> 00:25:07,855
-But it's drugs?
-It's certainly drugs.
365
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:11,859
During the apartheid years,
it was just impossible to play it.
366
00:25:11,944 --> 00:25:13,861
And what happened if you did play it?
367
00:25:13,946 --> 00:25:17,114
Well, you couldn't.
I'd like to show you why.
368
00:25:21,995 --> 00:25:24,872
Right, here we have the album,
the vinyl.
369
00:25:24,957 --> 00:25:28,459
At the back of the sleeve
you'll see a sticker that says ''Avoid.''
370
00:25:28,502 --> 00:25:32,296
But when you open the album
and take it out from its sleeve,
371
00:25:33,048 --> 00:25:36,509
you would see that they have
scratched that particular song
372
00:25:36,635 --> 00:25:40,304
with a sharp tool to make sure
that it would not go out on air.
373
00:25:40,847 --> 00:25:45,351
And that's the way that they
banned the music which, in my mind,
374
00:25:45,477 --> 00:25:50,147
was quite a brutal way of ensuring the
song would never be heard on the air.
375
00:25:50,649 --> 00:25:54,151
(Steve Harris) Most of those tracks
were on the banned list at SABC
376
00:25:54,236 --> 00:25:57,572
and they ran
the broadcast industry completely.
377
00:25:57,656 --> 00:26:00,408
There weren't any independent
radio stations or TV stations.
378
00:26:00,492 --> 00:26:06,205
Obviously, when that word got out,
it just made the record more desirable.
379
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,000
You know,
it's like having something banned.
380
00:26:09,042 --> 00:26:12,587
You're 16, 17 years old
and you've got something that's banned.
381
00:26:12,671 --> 00:26:14,589
It was absolutely perfect.
382
00:26:14,881 --> 00:26:17,174
(♫ Can't get Away by Rodriguez)
383
00:26:34,943 --> 00:26:37,570
♫ Born in the troubled city
384
00:26:38,572 --> 00:26:41,407
♫ In Rock and Roll, USA
385
00:26:41,908 --> 00:26:45,286
♫ In the shadow of the tallest building
386
00:26:46,246 --> 00:26:49,165
♫ I vowed I would break away
387
00:26:50,292 --> 00:26:53,210
♫ Listened to the Sunday actors
388
00:26:53,962 --> 00:26:56,464
♫ But all they would ever say
389
00:26:56,548 --> 00:27:00,134
♫ That you can't get away from it
390
00:27:00,218 --> 00:27:02,678
♫ No, you can't get away
391
00:27:03,388 --> 00:27:06,849
(Segerman) Cold Fact was just one
of the albums we had in our collections,
392
00:27:06,933 --> 00:27:11,228
and for 10, 20 years, it was just
a record we listened to and enjoyed.
393
00:27:11,897 --> 00:27:15,441
But then a pivotal event happened
that changed everything for me.
394
00:27:15,525 --> 00:27:16,984
We were down in Camps Bay beach.
395
00:27:17,069 --> 00:27:20,196
We were sitting around on the beach
and a friend of mine,
396
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,573
a woman, who was from South Africa,
397
00:27:22,658 --> 00:27:26,869
but she had got married
and emigrated to Los Angeles,
398
00:27:26,953 --> 00:27:31,332
she said to me, ''Where can I
buy Cold Fact in South Africa?''
399
00:27:31,416 --> 00:27:35,252
And I turned round and I pointed
to a store across the road
400
00:27:35,337 --> 00:27:38,589
that sold CDs and I said,
''You can buy it at that store.''
401
00:27:38,674 --> 00:27:42,259
She said, ''Really? Because, you know,
you can't buy it anywhere in America.
402
00:27:42,344 --> 00:27:44,553
''I've asked everywhere in America,
no one's even heard of it.''
403
00:27:44,638 --> 00:27:47,139
And that was a pivotal moment,
'cause I didn't know that.
404
00:27:47,224 --> 00:27:48,599
I thought everybody knew Rodriguez,
405
00:27:48,684 --> 00:27:51,227
especially in America
'cause he was American.
406
00:27:51,311 --> 00:27:54,438
So my next thought was,
''Ah, Rodriguez, that's interesting.''
407
00:27:54,523 --> 00:27:56,941
I went back... I came back home
and I took out my Rodriguez records
408
00:27:57,025 --> 00:27:59,443
and that's when I realised
there was nothing on the record
409
00:27:59,528 --> 00:28:01,696
to tell us who he was
or where he was from.
410
00:28:02,072 --> 00:28:03,948
On Cold Fact there are four names.
411
00:28:04,032 --> 00:28:06,909
On the front cover
it just says ''Rodriguez.''
412
00:28:06,993 --> 00:28:09,787
But if we take the record out
and examine the sleeve,
413
00:28:09,913 --> 00:28:12,707
the artist's name is Sixto Rodriguez.
414
00:28:12,791 --> 00:28:14,291
But if you look at the tracks,
415
00:28:14,376 --> 00:28:16,001
six of these tracks
416
00:28:16,086 --> 00:28:18,462
are credited to Jesus Rodriguez,
417
00:28:18,547 --> 00:28:19,922
and four of these tracks
418
00:28:20,006 --> 00:28:22,633
are credited to Sixth Prince.
419
00:28:22,718 --> 00:28:24,385
So who actually wrote these songs
420
00:28:24,469 --> 00:28:25,720
and who are all these people?
421
00:28:25,804 --> 00:28:28,973
We didn't have any more information
than a record
422
00:28:29,057 --> 00:28:32,601
with him sitting on the cover
with a hat and sunglasses on.
423
00:28:32,686 --> 00:28:35,688
We didn't know how tall he was
'cause he was sitting cross-legged.
424
00:28:35,772 --> 00:28:37,231
So how do you solve a mystery?
425
00:28:37,315 --> 00:28:39,316
You use whatever
information's available.
426
00:28:39,401 --> 00:28:42,695
What did we have?
A record cover with lyrics.
427
00:28:42,779 --> 00:28:44,447
So we started looking
quite deeply at the lyrics
428
00:28:44,531 --> 00:28:45,990
and seeing what they said,
429
00:28:46,074 --> 00:28:48,701
and some of them, very few of them,
had geographical references.
430
00:28:48,785 --> 00:28:51,412
The one You Can't Get Away starts off,
431
00:28:51,496 --> 00:28:53,122
''Born in the troubled city
432
00:28:53,206 --> 00:28:56,000
''In Rock and Roll, USA.''
433
00:28:56,084 --> 00:28:57,501
Born in which troubled city?
434
00:28:57,586 --> 00:28:59,670
Seems all the cities were troubled
in the late '60s.
435
00:28:59,755 --> 00:29:02,047
''In the shadow of the tallest building.''
436
00:29:02,132 --> 00:29:04,300
The tallest building, as far as we knew,
was in New York.
437
00:29:04,384 --> 00:29:06,719
And at the bottom of the song
this verse says,
438
00:29:06,803 --> 00:29:08,429
''In a hotel room in Amsterdam.''
439
00:29:09,347 --> 00:29:14,351
Then it says, ''Going down a dusty
Georgian side road I wander.'' Georgia?
440
00:29:14,436 --> 00:29:16,353
So we've had Amsterdam,
we've had Georgia,
441
00:29:16,438 --> 00:29:17,897
we've had the world's tallest building.
442
00:29:18,565 --> 00:29:20,274
Not much to go on.
443
00:29:28,033 --> 00:29:29,450
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
Well, what I heard,
444
00:29:29,493 --> 00:29:30,910
and the story differs a lot,
445
00:29:31,036 --> 00:29:34,622
and a lot of people have different
versions of the story, but what I heard,
446
00:29:34,706 --> 00:29:37,416
he hadn't played a concert
in a very long time.
447
00:29:37,459 --> 00:29:41,378
And a promoter got him
to play a concert,
448
00:29:41,463 --> 00:29:44,131
and he was hoping
it was gonna be a great show.
449
00:29:44,216 --> 00:29:47,343
Of course, the show didn't
work out that way. It started out...
450
00:29:47,427 --> 00:29:51,430
The sound wasn't good.
The venue wasn't good.
451
00:29:51,473 --> 00:29:54,141
A lot of the factors
surrounding the show wasn't good.
452
00:29:54,226 --> 00:29:56,101
And as the show went on and on,
453
00:29:56,186 --> 00:30:00,773
it started going downhill from there.
People started ridiculing him.
454
00:30:00,857 --> 00:30:06,153
People started whistling
or making mention of the fact that,
455
00:30:06,238 --> 00:30:08,614
you know,
the show wasn't going as planned.
456
00:30:08,698 --> 00:30:12,284
And it got to a point where,
just very quietly, very gently,
457
00:30:12,369 --> 00:30:13,828
he just sang his last song.
458
00:30:13,912 --> 00:30:16,580
''But thanks for your time
Then you can thank me for mine
459
00:30:16,665 --> 00:30:18,624
''And after that's said forget it.''
460
00:30:18,708 --> 00:30:23,045
And he reached down and pulled up a gun
and pulled the trigger.
461
00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:26,799
And that was the dramatic,
very dramatic ending,
462
00:30:26,883 --> 00:30:29,468
to what was actually a non-career.
463
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:04,670
(Segerman) In 1996,
the South African record label
464
00:31:04,754 --> 00:31:08,966
released Rodriguez's second album,
Coming From Reality,
465
00:31:09,092 --> 00:31:11,886
on CD for the first time
in South Africa.
466
00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:14,471
And because they thought
I knew a lot about him,
467
00:31:14,514 --> 00:31:17,224
they asked if I wanted to co-write
the liner notes for the booklet,
468
00:31:17,309 --> 00:31:18,684
which I did.
469
00:31:18,768 --> 00:31:23,147
And I'll read some of it to you.
They start off by saying,
470
00:31:23,231 --> 00:31:26,650
''If ever there is an air of intrigue
and mystery around a pop artist,
471
00:31:26,735 --> 00:31:29,445
''it is around the artist
known as Rodriguez.
472
00:31:29,529 --> 00:31:32,656
''There's no air of intrigue and mystery
around him anywhere else in the world
473
00:31:32,741 --> 00:31:35,868
''because his two albums,
Coming From Reality and Cold Fact,
474
00:31:35,952 --> 00:31:38,746
''were monumental flops everywhere else.''
475
00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:40,289
And this is the important part.
476
00:31:40,999 --> 00:31:44,960
''There were no concrete cold facts
about the artist known as Rodriguez.
477
00:31:45,045 --> 00:31:47,463
''Any musicologist detectives out there?''
478
00:31:47,964 --> 00:31:50,758
And that,
that's the line that changed everything.
479
00:31:51,885 --> 00:31:53,677
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
I started searching for Rodriguez
480
00:31:53,762 --> 00:31:55,971
when a few of us
were sitting around in the Army
481
00:31:56,056 --> 00:31:58,432
and somebody said,
''How did Rodriguez die?''
482
00:31:58,516 --> 00:31:59,892
And just coincidence,
483
00:31:59,976 --> 00:32:02,394
at the time I was looking
for subject matter to write an article.
484
00:32:02,479 --> 00:32:05,356
I remember having, like, five points
on a piece of paper.
485
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,776
And number four, or something,
was ''Find out how Rodriguez died.''
486
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:11,570
I thought it would make a good story.
487
00:32:11,613 --> 00:32:13,697
So that was in the back of my mind
for many years
488
00:32:13,782 --> 00:32:17,534
and then, many years later,
I came across this, um,
489
00:32:18,078 --> 00:32:23,415
re-release of Coming From Reality
and inside, the liner notes said,
490
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:26,877
''There were no concrete cold facts
about the artist known as Rodriguez.
491
00:32:26,962 --> 00:32:31,590
''Any musicologist detectives out there?''
Um, was the question,
492
00:32:31,675 --> 00:32:33,801
and I think that to me,
was like an invitation.
493
00:32:33,885 --> 00:32:35,970
I thought, ''Well, maybe it's me''.
494
00:32:38,431 --> 00:32:42,768
The first way I tried to find him
was to just follow the money.
495
00:32:42,852 --> 00:32:44,103
Normally, you follow the money.
496
00:32:44,229 --> 00:32:45,604
That's how you get
to the bottom of anything.
497
00:32:46,272 --> 00:32:48,607
But where do dead men's money go?
498
00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:51,068
I was astounded that
no one knew anything about him.
499
00:32:51,194 --> 00:32:55,489
I guess it was reminiscent
of how bad the music industry was.
500
00:32:55,573 --> 00:32:57,408
They were renowned
for ripping people off.
501
00:32:57,492 --> 00:33:01,412
And it is one thing,
if they had said to me, ''Oh, yeah,
502
00:33:01,496 --> 00:33:05,833
''we send the money
to X place or Y,'' or whatever,
503
00:33:05,917 --> 00:33:08,210
but they just kept on being very vague.
504
00:33:08,294 --> 00:33:12,047
And, in fact, when I put some pressure
on somebody, I did get an address,
505
00:33:12,132 --> 00:33:13,632
and I called
506
00:33:13,717 --> 00:33:16,635
and, I can't remember
if I spoke to someone or left a message,
507
00:33:16,678 --> 00:33:19,638
but when I called the next day,
the number had been changed.
508
00:33:19,681 --> 00:33:20,848
And that to me was...
509
00:33:20,932 --> 00:33:24,351
I mean, that's a gift
for anyone who wants to be a detective,
510
00:33:24,936 --> 00:33:28,897
is an obstacle,
because an obstacle is an inspiration.
511
00:33:28,982 --> 00:33:31,608
If you just find things easily,
they're not inspiring,
512
00:33:31,651 --> 00:33:34,945
and this was a great obstacle
that somebody had changed their number.
513
00:33:35,030 --> 00:33:39,450
I just smelt a dirty money story
somewhere there.
514
00:33:39,534 --> 00:33:41,243
(male interviewer)
So, if you compare to other artists,
515
00:33:41,327 --> 00:33:42,953
how big was it actually?
516
00:33:43,038 --> 00:33:45,080
(Robbie Mann) Every month it just sold.
517
00:33:45,165 --> 00:33:48,042
And every party you went to
and every place you went to,
518
00:33:48,126 --> 00:33:50,544
you'd hear that album at least once.
519
00:33:50,628 --> 00:33:55,007
I don't think I could even think
of how many albums he's sold here
520
00:33:55,091 --> 00:33:57,551
'cause it's a long period of time.
521
00:33:57,927 --> 00:34:00,721
(male interviewer)
What could be probable?
522
00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:03,724
(sighs)
523
00:34:03,808 --> 00:34:08,020
I'd have to guess. Maybe half a million
copies over that period of time.
524
00:34:08,938 --> 00:34:11,774
It's a lot of records,
especially for a small country.
525
00:34:11,858 --> 00:34:14,318
Gold record, ten times over.
526
00:34:14,402 --> 00:34:17,154
(male interviewer) Rodriguez never got
to know that he was big in South Africa.
527
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,697
How could that be?
528
00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:22,034
Don't know.
I mean, everything would have been...
529
00:34:22,118 --> 00:34:23,702
I find that strange.
530
00:34:24,662 --> 00:34:26,038
I have no idea.
531
00:34:26,122 --> 00:34:28,165
(male interviewer) But you must
have sent royalties somewhere?
532
00:34:28,291 --> 00:34:30,918
(Mann) Of course we sent royalties.
We sent royalties to A&M Records.
533
00:34:31,002 --> 00:34:33,295
I remember the label. It was A&M Sussex.
534
00:34:33,379 --> 00:34:36,298
Whether they had a partnership,
whatever they had, I don't... You know.
535
00:34:36,925 --> 00:34:41,136
So, my suggestion is, if you
can find out whoever the person was
536
00:34:41,221 --> 00:34:42,888
who owned Sussex Records,
537
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,391
then you will find out
what happened to the money.
538
00:34:46,476 --> 00:34:49,186
(male interviewer)
Because it's weird, isn't it?
539
00:34:49,312 --> 00:34:52,439
(Mann) It's very strange. Very strange.
540
00:34:52,524 --> 00:34:54,733
(male interviewer) How popular
was the album? Was he as famous as,
541
00:34:54,776 --> 00:34:56,944
you know,
the Rolling Stones and the Doors?
542
00:34:57,070 --> 00:34:58,821
Oh, it was much bigger
than Rolling Stones.
543
00:34:58,905 --> 00:35:00,364
Absolutely, at the time, yeah.
544
00:35:00,907 --> 00:35:03,784
(male interviewer) When you released
the record, did you try to contact him?
545
00:35:03,868 --> 00:35:07,663
(Harris) No, not at all. You know?
Because... because, at the time,
546
00:35:07,747 --> 00:35:11,750
the legend... the legend was...
here was an artist.
547
00:35:11,793 --> 00:35:13,710
This was like Jimi Hendrix.
548
00:35:13,753 --> 00:35:16,463
With Jimi Hendrix catalogues,
you've gotta understand,
549
00:35:16,548 --> 00:35:21,969
if you just got Jimi Hendrix and you'd
got the licence for this territory,
550
00:35:22,053 --> 00:35:25,472
you're obviously not gonna go try get
hold of Jimi Hendrix, because he's dead.
551
00:35:25,557 --> 00:35:28,475
-But who did you pay royalties to?
-To Sussex Music.
552
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,935
To Clarence?
553
00:35:30,019 --> 00:35:33,272
Yes. Well, to Sussex Music
which is his company, yeah.
554
00:35:33,606 --> 00:35:35,566
So, I decided to make a diagram.
555
00:35:35,608 --> 00:35:38,819
Write down the whole path
and trail that I was trying to work out.
556
00:35:38,903 --> 00:35:41,572
All the various touch points,
all the record companies,
557
00:35:41,656 --> 00:35:45,075
all the people that had dealings with
Rodriguez and his album at some point.
558
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,077
I made this whole document.
559
00:35:47,162 --> 00:35:49,746
So I found out there were three
record companies in South Africa
560
00:35:49,789 --> 00:35:52,291
that had released Rodriguez's records.
561
00:35:52,417 --> 00:35:56,044
Finally discovering that
led to a record company in America.
562
00:35:56,129 --> 00:35:57,921
It was a company that
had been signing Rodriguez
563
00:35:58,006 --> 00:36:00,841
and creating his first album
called Sussex.
564
00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:03,719
I then did my research on Sussex.
565
00:36:03,803 --> 00:36:05,971
That led me to discovering
566
00:36:06,055 --> 00:36:10,475
who the owner of Sussex Records was:
Clarence Avant.
567
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,811
Clarence Avant,
he'd been the head of Motown,
568
00:36:12,854 --> 00:36:16,481
one of the most prestigious jobs
to have in the record company industry.
569
00:36:16,566 --> 00:36:20,277
So I did my research. I tried everything
to get a hold of Clarence Avant,
570
00:36:20,403 --> 00:36:23,822
but I just got to a lot of closed doors.
I could not get a hold of him.
571
00:36:36,044 --> 00:36:39,296
(male interviewer) I don't know
if you've ever seen this picture.
572
00:36:39,422 --> 00:36:42,049
(chuckles) That's him.
573
00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:46,053
That's Rodriguez.
574
00:36:47,597 --> 00:36:49,890
I don't know when this was made.
I have absolutely no idea.
575
00:36:49,974 --> 00:36:52,893
-That's 1970, I think.
-Yeah.
576
00:36:55,271 --> 00:36:57,189
This is my man.
577
00:37:01,361 --> 00:37:03,862
Man, don't get me emotional again. Shit.
578
00:37:03,905 --> 00:37:05,322
You made me emotional once.
579
00:37:05,448 --> 00:37:08,909
I ain't getting emotional no more
sitting here talking to you, man.
580
00:37:10,370 --> 00:37:14,790
If I had to name ten artists
that I have ever been involved with,
581
00:37:14,874 --> 00:37:17,626
Rodriguez would be in the top five,
simple as that.
582
00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:19,753
There's nothing...
You never heard anything like him.
583
00:37:19,837 --> 00:37:23,215
People would say, ''Well, Bob Dylan.''
I said, ''No, no''.
584
00:37:23,299 --> 00:37:27,636
Bob Dylan was mild to this guy.
Did it make any money?
585
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,972
We judge singing here in America...
586
00:37:30,014 --> 00:37:33,517
If you say,
''Is it... Was it the top hundred?
587
00:37:33,601 --> 00:37:37,771
''Was it... was it number...
Did it get on the charts as number 12?
588
00:37:37,855 --> 00:37:41,275
''Was there a lot of radio play?''
The answer's, ''No, man.''
589
00:37:42,652 --> 00:37:44,861
Nobody didn't... Rodriguez?
590
00:37:46,114 --> 00:37:48,699
You know, that name didn't register.
591
00:37:49,492 --> 00:37:52,369
Although he looked like he was
a white guy but, even still, Rodriguez,
592
00:37:52,495 --> 00:37:55,372
everybody knew Rodriguez,
that's a Spanish name.
593
00:37:55,498 --> 00:37:58,292
A Latin name.
Latin music was not happening then.
594
00:37:58,376 --> 00:38:00,877
(male interviewer) How many records
do you think he sold in America?
595
00:38:00,962 --> 00:38:03,171
In America? Six.
596
00:38:03,214 --> 00:38:05,299
Maybe my wife bought it,
maybe my daughter bought...
597
00:38:05,383 --> 00:38:09,011
She couldn't buy it, but maybe
Neil Bogart, maybe Dennis and Mike.
598
00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:13,390
Hey, look, man, you know,
it didn't sell here.
599
00:38:14,058 --> 00:38:16,893
There was some excitement about him.
600
00:38:16,978 --> 00:38:21,356
Couple of agents heard him
and wanted to bring him to California
601
00:38:21,399 --> 00:38:24,568
and, you know, when he came
to California he was nervous,
602
00:38:24,694 --> 00:38:26,737
and he turned his back to the audience
603
00:38:26,863 --> 00:38:29,031
and everybody said,
''Well, what the hell is this?''
604
00:38:29,073 --> 00:38:30,574
(male interviewer)
But the thing is that the guy sold
605
00:38:30,658 --> 00:38:33,410
hundreds of thousands of records
in another country.
606
00:38:33,536 --> 00:38:35,746
(Avant) I'm going to South Africa to try
to chase somebody who's selling records?
607
00:38:35,830 --> 00:38:37,205
Shit, no, man.
608
00:38:37,248 --> 00:38:39,916
(male interviewer) But did you know
that he was big in South Africa?
609
00:38:39,917 --> 00:38:44,921
Rodriguez, young man, never happened
insofar as I'm concerned.
610
00:38:45,048 --> 00:38:46,423
Period.
611
00:38:46,591 --> 00:38:50,844
But if I'm really gonna try to track
down the money, how should I do it?
612
00:38:50,928 --> 00:38:53,430
Well, is that important, the money?
Or is Rod...
613
00:38:53,556 --> 00:38:58,935
Which is important? Rodriguez's story
or you worrying about the money?
614
00:38:59,020 --> 00:39:00,604
How many people in South Africa?
615
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:03,440
40 million? 40 thousand?
40 million people? How many people?
616
00:39:03,566 --> 00:39:05,025
40 million people live in South Africa.
617
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:08,737
Well, so they've been freed
for how long? Three hours?
618
00:39:08,946 --> 00:39:10,238
So what the fuck's
that supposed to mean?
619
00:39:10,281 --> 00:39:12,949
You told me at lunch,
they scratch records
620
00:39:13,076 --> 00:39:14,701
because they wouldn't let the lyrics...
621
00:39:14,786 --> 00:39:18,288
So the underground movement,
how big was it? How big was it?
622
00:39:18,414 --> 00:39:20,957
(male interviewer) He sold
half a million records in South Africa.
623
00:39:21,084 --> 00:39:22,876
So he sold half a million records.
So what?
624
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,711
I don't know who he sold them to.
625
00:39:24,796 --> 00:39:27,631
How many distributors did he have?
I have no idea.
626
00:39:27,715 --> 00:39:29,216
There are only...
There are three record labels.
627
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:31,134
-I spoke to all the record label...
-Well, great.
628
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:35,972
...bosses in South Africa who
has released his records. It was...
629
00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:38,725
Go back to 'em and tell 'em
to send me an account.
630
00:39:38,810 --> 00:39:41,228
You think it's something
I'm gonna worry about, a 1970 contract?
631
00:39:41,312 --> 00:39:43,980
If you do,
you're outta your goddamn mind.
632
00:39:44,107 --> 00:39:47,818
Buddha Records out of business.
I'm out of business.
633
00:39:48,945 --> 00:39:53,156
So you think they give a shit
about that? I know I wouldn't.
634
00:39:55,785 --> 00:39:57,160
(Segerman)
I've been looking for information
635
00:39:57,286 --> 00:39:58,912
about Rodriguez for a long time.
636
00:39:59,831 --> 00:40:03,083
I've even set up a web page
called The Great Rodriguez Hunt
637
00:40:03,167 --> 00:40:05,168
in the hope that
someone out there in cyberspace
638
00:40:05,294 --> 00:40:09,965
would post a message on the forum giving
us any information about Rodriguez.
639
00:40:10,466 --> 00:40:11,967
But there was nothing.
640
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,678
At that stage I met Craig,
641
00:40:14,762 --> 00:40:18,014
who was the musicologist detective
who had read my liner notes
642
00:40:18,141 --> 00:40:20,267
and who was also
searching for Rodriguez.
643
00:40:20,351 --> 00:40:23,687
And he flew down to Cape Town
and we met in a coffee shop.
644
00:40:23,771 --> 00:40:26,523
And we exchanged
all the information we had.
645
00:40:26,691 --> 00:40:28,984
But unfortunately we had very little.
646
00:40:29,026 --> 00:40:33,280
And at that stage I remember we felt
it was probably best if we just stopped.
647
00:40:33,364 --> 00:40:34,865
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
So basically I was lost.
648
00:40:34,991 --> 00:40:36,658
I'd come to a dead end.
I couldn't find him.
649
00:40:36,701 --> 00:40:38,285
I didn't know where to look any more.
650
00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:40,704
I'd even visited the places
that he sang about.
651
00:40:40,830 --> 00:40:42,831
I'd been to London. Nothing.
652
00:40:42,874 --> 00:40:47,043
I'd been to Amsterdam.
He sings about Amsterdam. Nothing.
653
00:40:47,128 --> 00:40:49,963
And one day I'd basically given up.
I thought, ''Well, this is it.''
654
00:40:50,047 --> 00:40:52,883
And one day, just by accident,
I was listening to the album in the car
655
00:40:53,009 --> 00:40:55,051
and I heard the song Inner City Blues.
656
00:40:55,136 --> 00:40:57,304
Great song. And the line came up.
657
00:40:57,388 --> 00:41:01,141
''I met a girl in Dearborn,
early six o'clock this morn.
658
00:41:01,225 --> 00:41:02,726
''A cold fact.''
659
00:41:02,810 --> 00:41:05,812
Then I thought, ''Hang on a minute.''
I'd never checked out Dearborn.
660
00:41:05,897 --> 00:41:07,814
I didn't even know if it was a city
but then I thought,
661
00:41:07,899 --> 00:41:09,733
''Actually that sounds
like a town or a city.''
662
00:41:09,817 --> 00:41:13,528
And I thought, ''Hang on,
let me check it out in an atlas.''
663
00:41:13,571 --> 00:41:18,700
So I went through to my old atlas
and pulled it out.
664
00:41:18,743 --> 00:41:22,078
I thought, ''Let me see
what I could find here.
665
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,581
''Let me see if I could find Dearborn.''
666
00:41:24,749 --> 00:41:26,416
Um... Dear...
667
00:41:27,251 --> 00:41:31,379
Then I found it.
Dearborn, Wayne, Michigan. F7.
668
00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:37,594
F...7.
669
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:42,766
Dearborn. Part of Detroit.
That was a huge breakthrough in my mind.
670
00:41:42,850 --> 00:41:47,521
Detroit, home of Motown,
Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,
671
00:41:48,189 --> 00:41:51,107
and, eventually, Mike Theodore,
the producer of the album.
672
00:41:55,947 --> 00:42:00,116
(Theodore) I was sitting in my condo,
just having a cup of coffee.
673
00:42:00,117 --> 00:42:04,120
I was looking out the window
watching the ocean. Phone rings.
674
00:42:05,456 --> 00:42:06,915
It's a long-distance call
675
00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:08,625
from South Africa...
676
00:42:10,044 --> 00:42:13,088
from a writer whose name's
Craig Bartholomew,
677
00:42:13,464 --> 00:42:19,094
and he starts telling me
this amazing story.
678
00:42:20,263 --> 00:42:22,097
So he said, ''Do you know that Rodriguez
679
00:42:22,139 --> 00:42:25,100
''has been selling in South Africa
for 25 years.
680
00:42:25,142 --> 00:42:27,561
''His albums are selling millions.''
681
00:42:27,895 --> 00:42:29,563
I said, ''What?''
682
00:42:29,647 --> 00:42:33,483
Then he's sitting there and he wants...
he starts telling me some stories.
683
00:42:33,568 --> 00:42:35,652
He said, ''How did Rodriguez die?''
684
00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:39,990
And he's telling me information
that he had that Rodriguez had...
685
00:42:41,242 --> 00:42:43,159
blown his brains out on stage,
686
00:42:43,244 --> 00:42:45,495
or set himself on fire
and killed himself.
687
00:42:45,955 --> 00:42:48,039
I had 100 questions I wanted to ask.
688
00:42:48,124 --> 00:42:51,793
I was just hoping I could get
all my questions in, you know.
689
00:42:51,836 --> 00:42:54,421
''Why did he write this lyric?
Why did he write that lyric?
690
00:42:54,505 --> 00:42:58,592
''Where did he record this album?
Where did he record that album?''
691
00:42:58,676 --> 00:43:02,470
And we got talking and I asked him
a lot of questions and it was amazing.
692
00:43:02,513 --> 00:43:05,473
It was a rollercoaster ride
of questions and answers,
693
00:43:05,516 --> 00:43:08,852
and it was a euphoric moment
of just having finally broken through
694
00:43:08,978 --> 00:43:10,353
and discovered something.
695
00:43:10,396 --> 00:43:14,357
And finally I got to the one question
I wanted to know the answer of, was,
696
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,570
''How did Rodriguez die?
Did he blow himself up on stage? Or...
697
00:43:18,696 --> 00:43:21,197
''What is this dramatic story?
698
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:25,869
''Let's open up the lid on this
right away, and find out what happened.''
699
00:43:25,911 --> 00:43:30,707
And Mike Theodore said,
''What do you mean dead? He's not dead.
700
00:43:32,668 --> 00:43:34,919
''Sixto is alive. He's alive and kicking.
701
00:43:35,046 --> 00:43:40,717
''The principal artist known as
Sixto Rodriguez is alive and kicking
702
00:43:40,843 --> 00:43:42,218
''and living in Detroit.''
703
00:43:46,349 --> 00:43:49,517
(Harris) I... I can't remember who
called me and said, ''They've found him.''
704
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:55,231
I said, ''No. You're shitting me.
This isn't... No.'' (laughs)
705
00:43:55,858 --> 00:44:00,111
At first I thought it was a hoax.
I thought somebody was faking it.
706
00:44:01,364 --> 00:44:04,741
You know, it's like going
into Tutankhamen's tomb
707
00:44:04,867 --> 00:44:06,242
and finding the mummy.
708
00:44:06,369 --> 00:44:07,744
You know, it was like, ''Wow, he lives.''
709
00:44:07,912 --> 00:44:11,289
I remember dancing on the spot
when I was staying on the phone.
710
00:44:11,415 --> 00:44:15,251
And Craig and I were jumping up and down
saying, ''We found him, we found him.''
711
00:44:15,252 --> 00:44:17,754
It was the most exciting thing.
We'd actually done it.
712
00:44:17,922 --> 00:44:19,923
(♫ I Think of You by Rodriguez)
713
00:44:20,049 --> 00:44:25,136
♫ Just a song we shared out here
714
00:44:26,222 --> 00:44:30,767
♫ Brings memories back
when you were here
715
00:44:32,103 --> 00:44:37,107
♫ Of your smile, your easy laughter
716
00:44:37,942 --> 00:44:42,904
♫ Of your kiss, those moments after
717
00:44:43,114 --> 00:44:45,990
♫ I think of you
718
00:44:48,953 --> 00:44:50,620
(Bartholomew-Strydom) So that was it.
719
00:44:50,663 --> 00:44:53,498
I'd come to the point,
it was the end of the story.
720
00:44:53,624 --> 00:44:57,585
I was searching for a dead man.
One morning I discovered a living man.
721
00:44:57,628 --> 00:45:00,630
And to me that was the end of the story.
I wrote my article,
722
00:45:00,673 --> 00:45:03,091
I called it ''Looking for Jesus.''
723
00:45:03,134 --> 00:45:04,634
I faxed it to many individuals,
724
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:05,802
many people involved,
725
00:45:05,970 --> 00:45:10,640
but somehow this article
made its way across the Atlantic
726
00:45:10,766 --> 00:45:13,101
and into the hands
of someone in America.
727
00:45:13,144 --> 00:45:15,937
And what I thought was the end of story
728
00:45:15,980 --> 00:45:18,648
was actually just the beginning
of another story,
729
00:45:18,691 --> 00:45:21,317
and the best part was still to come.
730
00:45:23,612 --> 00:45:26,156
'Cause I don't know where it is.
It might take a while.
731
00:45:26,198 --> 00:45:28,283
They do have the dates.
732
00:45:28,325 --> 00:45:31,202
''Three-year search for dead singer.''
Yes.
733
00:45:31,328 --> 00:45:34,622
August '97. I was in Kansas.
734
00:45:34,665 --> 00:45:38,501
I got a copy of it to me at work.
I was on, like, a 24-hour shift.
735
00:45:38,627 --> 00:45:40,837
And then, I went online
736
00:45:41,005 --> 00:45:45,175
and that's when
I discovered the website.
737
00:45:45,301 --> 00:45:49,053
When I went online there was
this milk carton with a picture.
738
00:45:49,805 --> 00:45:54,726
And it said, ''Wanted''
and ''Have you seen this man?''
739
00:45:55,394 --> 00:45:58,354
I was like, ''Matter of fact,
I have seen him before.''
740
00:45:59,690 --> 00:46:04,402
I replied, ''Rodriguez is my father.
I'm serious.
741
00:46:04,862 --> 00:46:07,655
''Do you really want to know
about my father?
742
00:46:07,698 --> 00:46:11,367
''Sometimes the fantasy
is better left alive.''
743
00:46:11,368 --> 00:46:13,495
I don't know why I said that,
but anyway I did.
744
00:46:13,537 --> 00:46:17,332
And then I gave them e-mail address,
phone numbers,
745
00:46:17,374 --> 00:46:20,710
anything that they wanted to contact me.
And he phoned me.
746
00:46:26,342 --> 00:46:28,384
(Segerman) Well, we'd found out
that Rodriguez was alive.
747
00:46:28,385 --> 00:46:29,844
I'd spoken to Craig.
748
00:46:29,887 --> 00:46:32,680
I came to work and Alex McCrindle,
749
00:46:32,723 --> 00:46:34,724
who was the guy I worked
on the website with said,
750
00:46:34,767 --> 00:46:38,186
''You're not going to believe
what's on the website.''
751
00:46:38,229 --> 00:46:41,898
And on the website was a forum
where people could post messages,
752
00:46:42,024 --> 00:46:43,525
and there was a message that said,
753
00:46:43,567 --> 00:46:46,236
''My name's Eva.
I'm Rodriguez's daughter.''
754
00:46:46,362 --> 00:46:47,737
She'd left a phone number and she said,
755
00:46:47,863 --> 00:46:49,113
''I'd like to speak to someone
756
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:50,532
in connection with this.''
757
00:46:50,574 --> 00:46:52,784
So that night I phoned her.
758
00:46:52,910 --> 00:46:55,453
I said, ''Hi, I'm Sugar,''
and she said, ''I'm Eva,''
759
00:46:55,579 --> 00:46:58,039
and we had the most
amazing conversation.
760
00:46:58,082 --> 00:47:02,252
She explained to me who her father was,
what he had done, where he had been.
761
00:47:02,378 --> 00:47:05,880
She asked me who I was
and I explained why my name was Sugar
762
00:47:05,923 --> 00:47:08,383
and how I was involved with the website.
763
00:47:08,425 --> 00:47:10,593
And then at the end I said to her,
764
00:47:10,636 --> 00:47:13,054
''This has been the most
amazing thing for me,
765
00:47:13,097 --> 00:47:14,889
''and what would be really great
is if I could,
766
00:47:14,932 --> 00:47:16,766
''at some point, speak to your dad.
767
00:47:16,892 --> 00:47:18,768
''I'd love it if I could
just say hello to him.''
768
00:47:18,811 --> 00:47:21,437
Because, for me,
this was sort of the end of the search
769
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,439
and I just wanted to speak to this man.
770
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,400
And then I went to bed.
771
00:47:25,442 --> 00:47:28,653
And 1:00 in the morning that night,
the phone rang.
772
00:47:29,446 --> 00:47:33,116
And my wife answers it
'cause it was her side of the bed.
773
00:47:33,242 --> 00:47:37,745
And I remember she picked up the phone
and her face just changed.
774
00:47:37,788 --> 00:47:41,958
She had this look of awe.
She said, ''It's him.''
775
00:47:42,084 --> 00:47:44,127
And I was in shock. I'd been sleeping
776
00:47:44,253 --> 00:47:47,297
and I ran into the other room,
into my study,
777
00:47:47,339 --> 00:47:49,841
and I picked up the phone
and she put hers down.
778
00:47:49,967 --> 00:47:52,510
And I said, ''Hello?'' and a voice said...
779
00:47:52,636 --> 00:47:54,470
(Rodriguez's voice on phone)
''Hello, is that Sugar?''
780
00:47:54,471 --> 00:47:58,266
And I knew, I just knew,
because I knew that voice.
781
00:47:58,309 --> 00:48:01,936
I'd heard that voice so many times
on the records, I knew it was him.
782
00:48:01,979 --> 00:48:03,813
I was talking to Rodriguez.
783
00:48:04,648 --> 00:48:08,151
That, for me, was one of
the greatest moments of my life.
784
00:49:17,388 --> 00:49:20,974
-(Rodriguez) Whenever you're ready.
-(male interviewer) Okay.
785
00:49:21,058 --> 00:49:23,226
(Rodriguez) Is this all right?
Should I be doing something though?
786
00:49:23,310 --> 00:49:26,604
Should I have a glass of water
or something? Is that right?
787
00:49:26,730 --> 00:49:29,941
-(male interviewer) Do you want?
-Yeah. I like that.
788
00:49:30,067 --> 00:49:32,819
Yeah, this is...
I'm supposed to be comfortable.
789
00:49:42,997 --> 00:49:47,083
So run the question to me again.
Just so I can hear it in my head.
790
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:52,630
In the '70s and '80s, did you ever
get any contact from South Africa?
791
00:49:53,090 --> 00:49:55,174
Uh... No, I didn't.
792
00:49:57,177 --> 00:50:01,305
Maybe they didn't have a contact number
or something but, no, I didn't.
793
00:50:01,432 --> 00:50:03,599
How does that feel?
You weren't aware of something
794
00:50:03,684 --> 00:50:05,810
that would have changed
your life completely.
795
00:50:05,936 --> 00:50:08,271
I mean, probably to the better.
796
00:50:08,772 --> 00:50:11,441
Well, I don't know if it would have been
for the better,
797
00:50:11,525 --> 00:50:14,777
but it's certainly a thought, you know.
798
00:50:15,654 --> 00:50:19,365
But wouldn't it have been nice to know
that you were a superstar?
799
00:50:19,450 --> 00:50:20,825
Uh, well...
800
00:50:25,539 --> 00:50:27,957
I don't know how to respond to that.
801
00:50:28,042 --> 00:50:32,336
After Coming From Reality,
did you wanna continue making albums?
802
00:50:32,463 --> 00:50:36,299
I would have liked to have continued
but nothing beats Reality.
803
00:50:36,341 --> 00:50:38,801
So I pretty much went back to work.
804
00:50:39,678 --> 00:50:41,137
What did you do?
805
00:50:41,221 --> 00:50:44,140
I... Well, I'd do hired labour.
806
00:50:44,308 --> 00:50:48,227
Demolition, renovation of buildings,
807
00:50:48,645 --> 00:50:53,066
of homes, you know. Restoration.
808
00:50:54,485 --> 00:50:55,818
Did you enjoy that?
809
00:50:55,903 --> 00:51:00,656
I do. (stammering) It keeps the blood
circulating, keeps you fit, yeah.
810
00:51:01,158 --> 00:51:03,493
But it's quite far away from music.
811
00:51:03,535 --> 00:51:07,413
Uh... Yeah, quite a bit,
quite a different contrast, yeah.
812
00:51:07,498 --> 00:51:09,874
Did you continue
making music on your own?
813
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,377
I do, I play guitar.
I love playing guitar.
814
00:51:13,504 --> 00:51:17,507
But I do love to listen.
I like to go see the shows and things.
815
00:51:17,591 --> 00:51:19,675
But I do get about.
816
00:51:19,885 --> 00:51:22,011
(♫ Street Boy by Rodriguez)
817
00:51:39,196 --> 00:51:44,033
♫ Street boy
You've been out too long
818
00:51:44,118 --> 00:51:49,038
♫ Street boy
Makes kind of sense to go home
819
00:51:49,081 --> 00:51:53,918
♫ Street boy
You're gonna end up alone
820
00:51:54,044 --> 00:51:56,629
♫ You need some love and understanding
821
00:51:56,713 --> 00:52:00,883
♫ Not that dead-end life you're planning
Street boy
822
00:52:08,809 --> 00:52:13,146
♫ You go home but you can't stay
823
00:52:13,647 --> 00:52:17,441
♫ Because something's
always pulling you away
824
00:52:18,402 --> 00:52:22,905
♫ You're fast hellos
And quick goodbyes
825
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,493
♫ You're just a street boy
with the street lights in your eyes
826
00:52:28,078 --> 00:52:32,957
♫ You'd better get yourself together
Look for something better
827
00:52:33,083 --> 00:52:36,043
(Regan Rodriguez) He never said anything
about being disappointed.
828
00:52:36,128 --> 00:52:39,213
He would just move on,
continue to survive
829
00:52:39,339 --> 00:52:41,048
because you can't just give up.
830
00:52:41,133 --> 00:52:43,134
(male interviewer)
What did he do instead?
831
00:52:43,218 --> 00:52:44,886
He read a lot.
832
00:52:44,970 --> 00:52:48,472
He was involved in politics.
He was involved in the community.
833
00:52:48,557 --> 00:52:51,058
He would attend protests and rallies,
834
00:52:51,143 --> 00:52:54,687
if those were causes that
he believed in. He would take us along.
835
00:52:54,771 --> 00:52:58,983
He was always a proponent
of working for the people
836
00:52:59,067 --> 00:53:01,152
that maybe didn't always have a voice,
837
00:53:01,236 --> 00:53:06,073
or didn't have a chance to speak up,
the working class, the working poor.
838
00:53:07,242 --> 00:53:12,205
He had a lot of experience in that area.
839
00:53:14,124 --> 00:53:15,791
(Rick Emmerson) He approached the work
840
00:53:15,834 --> 00:53:17,585
from a different place than
most people do.
841
00:53:17,669 --> 00:53:19,462
He took it very, very seriously.
842
00:53:19,546 --> 00:53:21,923
Sort of like a sacrament, you know?
843
00:53:22,007 --> 00:53:26,719
He was going to do this dirty,
dirty work for eight or ten hours, okay?
844
00:53:26,803 --> 00:53:28,804
But he was dressed in a tuxedo.
845
00:53:28,889 --> 00:53:30,473
(chuckles)
846
00:53:31,225 --> 00:53:36,812
He had this kind of magical quality
that all genuine poets and artists have
847
00:53:37,231 --> 00:53:41,651
to elevate things.
To get above the mundane, the prosaic.
848
00:53:41,735 --> 00:53:45,154
All the bullshit.
All the mediocrity that's everywhere.
849
00:53:45,989 --> 00:53:49,951
The artist, the artist is the pioneer.
850
00:53:50,827 --> 00:53:56,082
Even if his musical hopes were dashed,
the spirit remained.
851
00:53:56,541 --> 00:54:00,294
And he just had to keep finding a place,
refining the process
852
00:54:00,420 --> 00:54:02,505
of how to apply himself.
853
00:54:02,589 --> 00:54:04,548
He knew that there was something more.
854
00:54:04,633 --> 00:54:08,052
It was in the early '80s.
He wanted to do something,
855
00:54:08,136 --> 00:54:10,221
do something righteous,
make a difference.
856
00:54:10,305 --> 00:54:13,975
So, lo and behold... (chuckles)
857
00:54:14,059 --> 00:54:16,269
...he told me that he
was gonna run for mayor,
858
00:54:16,353 --> 00:54:19,772
and I thought,
''Well, God bless you, Rodriguez.
859
00:54:19,856 --> 00:54:23,234
''You know, if you can become Mayor
of Detroit, then anything is possible.''
860
00:54:23,318 --> 00:54:24,777
(♫ Inner City Blues by Rodriguez)
861
00:54:24,861 --> 00:54:28,614
♫ Met a girl from Dearborn
Early six o'clock this morn
862
00:54:28,699 --> 00:54:30,283
♫ A cold fact
863
00:54:33,036 --> 00:54:36,872
♫ Asked about her bag
Suburbia's such a drag
864
00:54:36,915 --> 00:54:38,499
♫ Won't go back
865
00:54:41,503 --> 00:54:46,882
♫ Cos papa don't allow
no new ideas here
866
00:54:49,344 --> 00:54:51,220
Some old items from Rodriguez.
867
00:54:54,725 --> 00:54:59,812
This is his bumper sticker, from
the first time he ran for city council.
868
00:55:02,149 --> 00:55:05,359
And I think this is a copy
of the ballot.
869
00:55:05,819 --> 00:55:08,112
He didn't win an election, ever.
870
00:55:08,405 --> 00:55:13,701
139. There were 169 candidates.
Nine get elected.
871
00:55:14,661 --> 00:55:17,121
They spelled his name wrong.
872
00:55:25,172 --> 00:55:30,885
My relatives on my mother's side
of the family are European
873
00:55:31,511 --> 00:55:33,387
and Native American.
874
00:55:33,513 --> 00:55:36,223
And my father's family is Mexican.
875
00:55:36,308 --> 00:55:38,893
My grandfather came from Mexico.
876
00:55:38,935 --> 00:55:43,147
The Mexican came to Detroit
to work in the auto factories,
877
00:55:43,231 --> 00:55:48,903
so we were working-class people,
blue-collar workers, hard labour.
878
00:55:49,529 --> 00:55:55,076
Um, we lived in 26 different homes
and some houses didn't have bedrooms.
879
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,370
Some houses didn't have bathrooms.
880
00:55:57,954 --> 00:56:02,083
And they weren't homes.
They were just places that we lived.
881
00:56:02,626 --> 00:56:06,462
But just because people are poor
or have little
882
00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:10,383
doesn't mean that, you know,
their dreams aren't big
883
00:56:10,467 --> 00:56:13,636
and their soul isn't rich, you know,
884
00:56:14,179 --> 00:56:18,099
and that's where the classes
and the prejudice come from
885
00:56:18,183 --> 00:56:20,684
is that there is a difference
between you and me,
886
00:56:20,769 --> 00:56:22,603
and there's a difference
between them and us.
887
00:56:23,730 --> 00:56:25,147
(♫ A Most Disgusting Song by Rodriguez)
888
00:56:25,232 --> 00:56:28,567
♫ I've played every kind of gig
there is to play now
889
00:56:30,904 --> 00:56:35,074
♫ I've played faggot bars, hooker bars,
motorcycle funerals
890
00:56:36,284 --> 00:56:40,621
♫ In opera houses, concert halls,
halfway houses
891
00:56:47,087 --> 00:56:50,714
♫ Well, I found that in all these places
that I've played
892
00:56:52,676 --> 00:56:56,220
♫ All the people that I've played for
are the same people
893
00:56:57,889 --> 00:57:02,017
♫ So if you'll listen, maybe you'll see
someone you know in this song
894
00:57:03,311 --> 00:57:05,521
♫ A most disgusting song
895
00:57:07,899 --> 00:57:10,276
(Regan) He wasn't just doing
your average carpentry, you know,
896
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,028
he was really cleaning out the house.
897
00:57:13,113 --> 00:57:15,906
I mean, doing work that no one else
wanted to do.
898
00:57:16,741 --> 00:57:19,243
Really, no one else
wanted to do that work.
899
00:57:19,327 --> 00:57:25,249
He would come home, he would be covered
in dust and dirt, paint chips,
900
00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:28,627
from his day's work. Long days.
901
00:57:29,171 --> 00:57:33,924
I saw him take refrigerators
down on his back, downstairs.
902
00:57:34,843 --> 00:57:36,719
It was just a day at work for him,
903
00:57:36,803 --> 00:57:41,432
but I knew he was a harder worker than
a lot of other fathers that I knew of.
904
00:57:42,767 --> 00:57:45,227
(Sandra Rodriguez-Kennedy) It's a city
that tells you not to dream big,
905
00:57:45,312 --> 00:57:48,105
not to expect anything more.
906
00:57:48,190 --> 00:57:50,649
But he always took me to places
907
00:57:50,734 --> 00:57:54,111
that only certain elite people
would be able to go.
908
00:57:55,322 --> 00:57:57,656
So, he kind of instilled in me
that I can go anywhere I want,
909
00:57:57,741 --> 00:58:02,495
regardless of what my bank statement
says, and I'm going, you know.
910
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:07,833
So, that's kinda how he was.
He showed me the top floors of places.
911
00:58:07,918 --> 00:58:10,836
I said, ''I'm just as good as they are,''
you know.
912
00:58:10,921 --> 00:58:14,048
(Eva) He majored in philosophy
in university.
913
00:58:14,883 --> 00:58:18,511
My dad gave us a lot of exposure
to the arts.
914
00:58:18,595 --> 00:58:24,183
He would let us go into the libraries
and the museums and the science centres,
915
00:58:24,267 --> 00:58:27,019
and where that was our day care,
916
00:58:28,438 --> 00:58:32,942
and we toured the halls of the museum
in San Diego Rivera
917
00:58:33,026 --> 00:58:37,321
and, you know,
all Picasso and Delacroix and...
918
00:58:37,405 --> 00:58:41,200
We began to learn of life
outside of the city,
919
00:58:41,284 --> 00:58:43,953
and that's in books and paintings
and in music.
920
00:58:44,037 --> 00:58:45,412
(♫ Lifestyles by Rodriguez)
921
00:58:45,497 --> 00:58:48,207
♫ The judges with meter-maid hearts
922
00:58:48,291 --> 00:58:51,418
♫ Or their supermarket justice starts
923
00:58:52,462 --> 00:58:55,464
♫ Frozen children inner city
924
00:58:58,093 --> 00:59:00,427
♫ Walkers in the paper rain
925
00:59:00,512 --> 00:59:03,556
♫ Waiting for those knights
that never came
926
00:59:04,849 --> 00:59:08,227
♫ The hijacked
trying so hard to be pretty
927
00:59:10,564 --> 00:59:14,275
♫ Night rains tap at my window
928
00:59:16,736 --> 00:59:20,489
♫ Winds of my thoughts passing by
929
00:59:23,076 --> 00:59:27,079
♫ She laughed when I tried to tell her
930
00:59:29,416 --> 00:59:33,168
♫ Hello only ends in goodbye
931
00:59:56,860 --> 00:59:58,819
(Rodriguez) Well, I started playing
when I was 16,
932
00:59:58,862 --> 01:00:01,864
and the thing is,
it was a family guitar,
933
01:00:01,948 --> 01:00:07,036
and I played a lot of bars in the city
and clubs in the city, small rooms.
934
01:00:08,538 --> 01:00:11,457
And I met Mike Theodore
and Dennis Coffey
935
01:00:11,541 --> 01:00:14,043
and they came to the club
to see me play.
936
01:00:14,169 --> 01:00:18,047
I had a gig at a place called The Sewer,
937
01:00:18,548 --> 01:00:20,674
right out by the Detroit River,
938
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,470
and then we got a record deal
from Clarence Avant,
939
01:00:24,554 --> 01:00:26,221
so that's how it started.
940
01:00:26,348 --> 01:00:30,142
But all those early years were,
you know... lot of work.
941
01:00:30,894 --> 01:00:34,563
I was at a Chrysler plant
called Dodge Maine,
942
01:00:34,648 --> 01:00:37,691
and I also worked
at Eldon and Lynch Road in Detroit.
943
01:00:37,817 --> 01:00:41,153
Worked in the heat treat department.
Stuff like that.
944
01:00:41,196 --> 01:00:43,155
A lot of heavy labour.
945
01:00:43,198 --> 01:00:47,201
But it was a good year for me.
This Cold Fact thing.
946
01:00:48,161 --> 01:00:52,414
I had achieved what I was trying to do,
is to get a product, you know.
947
01:00:52,540 --> 01:00:55,167
And it was going very well,
I thought, you know.
948
01:00:55,210 --> 01:01:00,422
How did it feel? A great feeling
of accomplishment. Actualisation.
949
01:01:01,091 --> 01:01:03,175
(male interviewer) Did you believe
that it was a good album?
950
01:01:03,218 --> 01:01:04,718
(Rodriguez) Um...
951
01:01:04,844 --> 01:01:07,054
I did my best with it.
952
01:01:09,099 --> 01:01:11,725
The reviews were good on it, and...
953
01:01:12,686 --> 01:01:14,853
Yeah, I thought it was good.
954
01:01:16,940 --> 01:01:20,025
I'm not the one to ask that, though.
(chuckles)
955
01:01:20,110 --> 01:01:21,944
Ask that question to.
956
01:01:22,070 --> 01:01:23,612
But you go ahead, yeah.
957
01:01:23,697 --> 01:01:25,447
Were you surprised that it didn't sell?
958
01:01:25,532 --> 01:01:26,949
Um...
959
01:01:28,118 --> 01:01:33,956
Was I surprised? It's the music business
so there's no guarantees, you know?
960
01:01:39,963 --> 01:01:42,256
(Segerman) So I told him,
''You're bigger than Elvis,''
961
01:01:42,298 --> 01:01:43,882
and he said, ''What do you mean?''
962
01:01:43,967 --> 01:01:47,636
I said, ''In South Africa you are
more popular than Elvis Presley.''
963
01:01:47,721 --> 01:01:49,138
And there was this pause,
964
01:01:49,264 --> 01:01:52,307
and I sensed he thought it was
a crank call and he was gonna hang up.
965
01:01:52,392 --> 01:01:55,769
So I said, ''Listen, wait.
Listen, listen to me, wait.
966
01:01:55,895 --> 01:01:58,647
''I promise you, just come here.
You won't be disappointed.''
967
01:01:59,107 --> 01:02:01,942
(Emmerson)
He's working his ass off in Woodbridge.
968
01:02:01,985 --> 01:02:05,654
One day, be brought this picture
of himself on a milk carton.
969
01:02:05,739 --> 01:02:07,823
(chuckles)
970
01:02:07,949 --> 01:02:12,619
And he'd say, ''Emmerson, look at this.
You know, they're looking for me.''
971
01:02:14,414 --> 01:02:18,000
I said,
''Really? Why is that, Rodriguez?''
972
01:02:18,918 --> 01:02:22,087
Next day he says,
''Emmerson, I gotta go on tour.''
973
01:02:22,672 --> 01:02:25,007
I said, ''Come on, Rodriguez,
are you serious?''
974
01:02:25,133 --> 01:02:26,967
(Rian Malan) Because I'm a journalist,
I doubted it.
975
01:02:27,010 --> 01:02:29,928
That sort of thing does not happen
in the rational universe.
976
01:02:30,013 --> 01:02:32,848
It does not happen.
It's against the laws of God and nature.
977
01:02:32,974 --> 01:02:35,309
This guy is coming to tour here,
he must be an imposter.
978
01:02:35,351 --> 01:02:38,145
It's a clever public relations scam.
979
01:02:38,188 --> 01:02:41,815
Actually, not even a clever
public relations scam. It's a stupid...
980
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:46,403
'Cause it so obviously can't be true.
Only idiots would believe it. They...
981
01:02:48,573 --> 01:02:50,199
But I was wrong.
982
01:02:58,416 --> 01:03:00,501
(Regan) We were always anxious,
of course, to get off the plane.
983
01:03:00,543 --> 01:03:02,044
That was a long flight.
984
01:03:02,086 --> 01:03:05,672
But we got off the plane
and we put our bags on our backs
985
01:03:05,715 --> 01:03:11,094
and, you know, they were heavy and
we just kept moving towards the airport.
986
01:03:12,096 --> 01:03:15,599
And suddenly,
three, two limousines pulled up
987
01:03:17,685 --> 01:03:19,603
and we were sure
that they weren't for us.
988
01:03:19,729 --> 01:03:22,523
We were like kind of
walking around them.
989
01:03:22,565 --> 01:03:25,234
Like, ''Oh, we better get out
of these people's way
990
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,694
'''cause they're important people
in limos.''
991
01:03:27,737 --> 01:03:30,697
But they were for us.
And that's when it began.
992
01:03:30,740 --> 01:03:34,743
It was all another world.
It was another world.
993
01:03:34,869 --> 01:03:40,082
(Eva) Just like you would see people...
over Madonna or...
994
01:03:40,208 --> 01:03:45,587
Like stepping out into the wind
and the paparazzi and all the...
995
01:03:45,630 --> 01:03:51,593
you know, the production assistants
and everybody are there to welcome him
996
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:54,930
and take us into the VIP suite.
997
01:03:55,056 --> 01:03:59,226
(Regan) The white carpeting.
You know, that was something that
998
01:03:59,269 --> 01:04:03,814
never would we ever even dream
of walking on white carpeting,
999
01:04:03,940 --> 01:04:05,983
especially in your shoes. (laughs)
1000
01:04:06,776 --> 01:04:09,444
(Segerman) They put him in a limo
and they drove him into the city.
1001
01:04:09,487 --> 01:04:14,324
And along the way, on all the lampposts,
were placards advertising the concert.
1002
01:04:14,409 --> 01:04:17,244
And he saw his face on every lamppost
as it sped by
1003
01:04:17,287 --> 01:04:19,830
and he'd go,
''There I am, there I am, there I am.''
1004
01:04:19,956 --> 01:04:22,791
(Eva) So we came
and we got to meet all the people.
1005
01:04:22,834 --> 01:04:26,587
We got to meet Craig Bartholomew
and their family and their kids
1006
01:04:26,629 --> 01:04:28,630
and Stephen Segerman.
1007
01:04:28,756 --> 01:04:32,426
And everybody was just so happy.
Everybody was thrilled.
1008
01:04:32,468 --> 01:04:33,927
We were even happier.
1009
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:35,804
Möller) Stephen phoned me.
1010
01:04:35,847 --> 01:04:38,181
He said, ''You will never believe this...
1011
01:04:39,475 --> 01:04:41,602
''but Rodriguez is coming to South Africa
1012
01:04:41,644 --> 01:04:43,437
''and we can be the opening band.
1013
01:04:43,479 --> 01:04:47,107
''Do you wanna do it?''
I said, ''Of course we wanna do it.''
1014
01:04:48,443 --> 01:04:51,486
''Why? Where is he?''
''Now they found him.
1015
01:04:51,613 --> 01:04:55,115
''They found him, he's alive, he's gonna
come and tour in South Africa.''
1016
01:04:55,158 --> 01:04:59,328
''Are we gonna be the opening band?''
So I couldn't really believe this.
1017
01:05:00,830 --> 01:05:05,459
And then I got all the information:
he's living in Detroit and everything.
1018
01:05:05,501 --> 01:05:07,169
And then a little while later he said,
1019
01:05:07,211 --> 01:05:09,838
''Look, it turns out
he hasn't got a band.
1020
01:05:09,964 --> 01:05:13,508
''Could we be the support band?''
I mean his band.
1021
01:05:14,469 --> 01:05:18,013
I remember, even then, we were sort of,
1022
01:05:19,515 --> 01:05:21,350
''Is this really gonna be Rodriguez?''
1023
01:05:21,392 --> 01:05:24,019
We'll only know
if he can actually sing these songs.
1024
01:05:24,145 --> 01:05:27,397
I mean, we don't know.
What if it's just some guy? (chuckles)
1025
01:05:27,899 --> 01:05:29,024
(Sandra) It was just like
1026
01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:30,317
one day we heard about it
1027
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,653
and the next day we were there,
1028
01:05:34,030 --> 01:05:35,864
trying to believe our eyes,
1029
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:38,867
thinking it was just all very shocking.
1030
01:05:38,993 --> 01:05:41,161
I don't know, he took to it really easy.
1031
01:05:41,204 --> 01:05:43,538
He just walked in and did his thing
1032
01:05:43,581 --> 01:05:47,167
and I was amazed that he did so well.
1033
01:05:47,210 --> 01:05:48,210
But he's not all
1034
01:05:48,336 --> 01:05:49,378
''head in the clouds'' kinda guy.
1035
01:05:49,504 --> 01:05:53,215
He's a little bit too much grounded.
1036
01:05:53,299 --> 01:05:54,883
He didn't take advantage
1037
01:05:54,926 --> 01:05:57,052
of all the amenities and stuff.
1038
01:05:57,136 --> 01:05:59,888
He didn't sleep in the big
double king size bed.
1039
01:05:59,931 --> 01:06:03,725
He kinda curled up on the love seat
and I found him there and...
1040
01:06:03,768 --> 01:06:07,229
Yeah, he just didn't think somebody
should have to make another bed
1041
01:06:07,271 --> 01:06:09,231
because he messed it up or...
1042
01:06:09,273 --> 01:06:10,649
(Regan) There was a time
1043
01:06:10,733 --> 01:06:12,776
where I stayed in the house we were at
1044
01:06:12,902 --> 01:06:15,404
and everyone else had gone out.
1045
01:06:15,488 --> 01:06:17,114
The phone rang and it kept ringing,
1046
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,324
so I decided to answer it.
1047
01:06:19,409 --> 01:06:20,784
And it was a reporter
1048
01:06:20,910 --> 01:06:22,744
looking to speak with Rodriguez
1049
01:06:22,829 --> 01:06:25,789
and set up time for an interview.
1050
01:06:26,499 --> 01:06:31,253
And then, before she hung up,
after I told her to call back later
1051
01:06:31,295 --> 01:06:33,672
to talk to someone
'cause I couldn't help her,
1052
01:06:33,756 --> 01:06:38,343
she told me that she wanted to know,
between she and I,
1053
01:06:38,428 --> 01:06:40,345
if it was the real Rodriguez.
1054
01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:41,930
(indistinct chatter)
1055
01:06:43,016 --> 01:06:45,267
(Möller) We were rehearsing with a CD
1056
01:06:45,309 --> 01:06:47,477
of the songs that we've got
1057
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:48,937
in the studio here in Cape Town
1058
01:06:49,022 --> 01:06:52,441
on the day that he came
from the airport, when he arrived,
1059
01:06:52,483 --> 01:06:56,153
and we were actually in the middle
of a song when he walked in
1060
01:06:56,279 --> 01:06:58,947
and just took over the microphone
and finished the song.
1061
01:06:59,032 --> 01:07:01,450
We switched off the CD player
1062
01:07:01,492 --> 01:07:04,286
and it was, like, completely seamless.
1063
01:07:04,328 --> 01:07:05,704
Completely seamless.
1064
01:07:05,788 --> 01:07:07,956
I mean, ''OK, this is the guy.''
1065
01:07:08,041 --> 01:07:09,791
I think we all knew this is
1066
01:07:09,834 --> 01:07:11,960
gonna be something really special.
1067
01:07:29,979 --> 01:07:32,647
Thank you, Cape Town. Thank you.
1068
01:07:34,525 --> 01:07:35,567
(Regan) When we, uh...
1069
01:07:35,651 --> 01:07:36,735
initially got on a plane,
1070
01:07:36,819 --> 01:07:38,820
I thought maybe there'd be, hopefully,
1071
01:07:38,863 --> 01:07:41,073
20 people in the audience.
1072
01:07:41,532 --> 01:07:42,908
Hopefully. (laughs)
1073
01:07:44,202 --> 01:07:47,079
But it turned out really,
really different than that.
1074
01:07:47,205 --> 01:07:49,998
And there's old people and young people
1075
01:07:50,083 --> 01:07:53,168
and they're coming to see the show.
1076
01:07:53,252 --> 01:07:57,255
And there's my stepdad on the stage...
Before he went on stage,
1077
01:07:57,340 --> 01:07:59,424
'cause I wanted to take
a picture of the audience,
1078
01:07:59,509 --> 01:08:01,510
since nobody's gonna believe this.
1079
01:08:01,594 --> 01:08:03,011
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
You must remember, this guy,
1080
01:08:03,054 --> 01:08:06,098
it's like seeing someone like Elvis
come back from the dead.
1081
01:08:06,224 --> 01:08:07,682
People in the audience
still don't believe it.
1082
01:08:07,767 --> 01:08:09,601
They're standing there.
They're at the concert.
1083
01:08:09,685 --> 01:08:11,269
They've paid their money.
1084
01:08:11,354 --> 01:08:13,021
They still don't believe that Rodriguez
1085
01:08:13,064 --> 01:08:15,023
is actually gonna walk on that stage.
1086
01:08:15,066 --> 01:08:16,775
(audience cheering)
1087
01:08:41,926 --> 01:08:45,595
(Möller on speakers) Are you ready?
1088
01:08:45,638 --> 01:08:46,972
(all cheering wildly)
1089
01:08:47,056 --> 01:08:48,598
Please welcome...
1090
01:08:49,392 --> 01:08:50,725
Rodriguez!
1091
01:08:51,144 --> 01:08:53,603
(♫ I Wonder by Rodriguez)
1092
01:09:18,963 --> 01:09:21,006
(loud cheering)
1093
01:09:29,140 --> 01:09:31,099
(Regan) It was almost
as if he didn't even have to play.
1094
01:09:31,184 --> 01:09:33,310
They were just happy to see him.
1095
01:09:33,394 --> 01:09:34,603
So, for a time,
1096
01:09:34,687 --> 01:09:37,647
I think they wanted to meet.
1097
01:09:38,524 --> 01:09:39,900
It was a reunion.
1098
01:09:41,068 --> 01:09:42,986
(Segerman) It was something
completely different.
1099
01:09:43,070 --> 01:09:45,197
It was for everybody there, I'm sure,
1100
01:09:45,323 --> 01:09:49,117
the most exciting concert they'd
ever been to. Because it was unique.
1101
01:09:49,202 --> 01:09:50,744
We'd never seen Rodriguez.
1102
01:09:50,828 --> 01:09:51,828
And all you heard
1103
01:09:51,913 --> 01:09:54,080
was the bass player just playing...
1104
01:09:54,874 --> 01:09:56,708
(mimicking intro bass)
1105
01:09:58,669 --> 01:09:59,711
And Rodriguez wandered out
1106
01:09:59,754 --> 01:10:00,879
to the front of the stage
1107
01:10:00,963 --> 01:10:01,963
and the bass player
1108
01:10:02,048 --> 01:10:03,048
actually just stopped playing.
1109
01:10:03,132 --> 01:10:04,174
And it took a while.
1110
01:10:04,258 --> 01:10:05,592
There was about five or ten minutes
1111
01:10:05,676 --> 01:10:08,553
of just people screaming at him.
1112
01:10:08,888 --> 01:10:10,388
(loud cheering)
1113
01:10:30,534 --> 01:10:32,994
Thanks for keeping me alive.
1114
01:10:39,001 --> 01:10:41,002
(intro continues playing)
1115
01:11:01,232 --> 01:11:02,399
♫ I wonder
1116
01:11:02,483 --> 01:11:05,110
♫ How many times you've been had
1117
01:11:05,194 --> 01:11:07,320
♫ And I wonder
1118
01:11:07,446 --> 01:11:09,906
♫ How many plans have gone bad
1119
01:11:09,991 --> 01:11:14,327
♫ I wonder how many times you had sex
1120
01:11:14,453 --> 01:11:15,954
♫ And I wonder
1121
01:11:16,038 --> 01:11:18,581
♫ Do you know who'll be next?
1122
01:11:18,666 --> 01:11:21,167
♫ I wonder
1123
01:11:21,252 --> 01:11:23,336
♫ I wonder
1124
01:11:26,549 --> 01:11:29,092
♫ Wonder I do
1125
01:11:31,929 --> 01:11:33,555
Regan) I think to go
1126
01:11:33,639 --> 01:11:35,807
from being the outcast
1127
01:11:35,891 --> 01:11:40,812
to being, uh, who he really was.
1128
01:11:40,855 --> 01:11:46,276
Because it was as though it was him
again... and that was who he was,
1129
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,779
a musician on stage,
playing for his fans.
1130
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:52,282
(♫ Forget It by Rodriguez)
1131
01:11:53,951 --> 01:11:57,787
♫ It didn't work out
But don't ever doubt how I felt
1132
01:11:58,664 --> 01:12:00,040
♫ About you
1133
01:12:04,086 --> 01:12:07,714
♫ But thanks for your time
1134
01:12:11,552 --> 01:12:14,721
(Bartholomew-Strydom) I thought
I would see him being bewildered
1135
01:12:14,805 --> 01:12:17,307
at all these people staring up at him.
1136
01:12:17,391 --> 01:12:20,810
I saw the opposite.
I saw this absolute tranquillity.
1137
01:12:20,853 --> 01:12:24,522
There was absolute serenity on his face.
Total.
1138
01:12:24,940 --> 01:12:28,818
It's like he had arrived at that thing,
at that place
1139
01:12:28,861 --> 01:12:31,237
he'd tried to find his whole life.
1140
01:12:31,322 --> 01:12:33,656
(Segerman) Home is acceptance.
1141
01:12:34,075 --> 01:12:37,577
Here's a guy who'd lived somewhere else,
on the other side of the earth,
1142
01:12:37,661 --> 01:12:40,872
and it was almost as if
he had found his home.
1143
01:12:40,915 --> 01:12:42,916
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
And I looked around at all these people
1144
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,669
and I thought, ''This is
a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
1145
01:12:46,754 --> 01:12:49,798
''This is never going to happen again.''
1146
01:13:23,207 --> 01:13:25,083
(inaudible over cheering)
1147
01:13:40,433 --> 01:13:42,892
(Malan) Well, isn't this all
our great fate?
1148
01:13:42,935 --> 01:13:47,856
Your dreams of yourself, the higher
forms of yourself is that one day
1149
01:13:47,940 --> 01:13:52,485
you will be recognised and that
your talents and everything else,
1150
01:13:53,446 --> 01:13:56,030
will suddenly become visible
to the world.
1151
01:13:56,115 --> 01:14:00,618
I mean, most of us die
without coming anywhere close
1152
01:14:00,703 --> 01:14:03,788
to that sort of magic.
1153
01:14:03,873 --> 01:14:05,248
I tried to get him to talk about that
1154
01:14:05,332 --> 01:14:06,624
when I interviewed him,
1155
01:14:06,709 --> 01:14:08,126
about how strange it was,
1156
01:14:08,210 --> 01:14:10,420
and I got absolutely nothing back.
1157
01:14:10,504 --> 01:14:12,088
Absolutely nothing back.
1158
01:14:12,173 --> 01:14:13,381
And I couldn't tell whether
1159
01:14:13,466 --> 01:14:15,633
he was just like sort of cripplingly shy
1160
01:14:15,718 --> 01:14:16,843
or whether I was
1161
01:14:16,927 --> 01:14:18,052
asking the wrong questions
1162
01:14:18,137 --> 01:14:19,179
or there was a language barrier
1163
01:14:19,263 --> 01:14:20,472
or whatever. He just...
1164
01:14:20,598 --> 01:14:25,602
Maybe that was OK as well
because he preserved his mystery.
1165
01:14:25,686 --> 01:14:27,729
I walked away
from that interview saying,
1166
01:14:28,022 --> 01:14:30,690
''This is all too strange to be true.''
1167
01:14:30,774 --> 01:14:33,401
It remains too strange to be true.
1168
01:14:33,486 --> 01:14:34,736
''These are the days
1169
01:14:34,820 --> 01:14:36,362
''of miracles and wonder.''
1170
01:14:36,447 --> 01:14:37,989
(loud cheering)
1171
01:14:58,886 --> 01:15:01,137
(Rodriguez) Oh, they were so sweet.
1172
01:15:01,222 --> 01:15:03,389
I didn't believe it.
1173
01:15:03,474 --> 01:15:06,226
And I still don't, but the thing is...
1174
01:15:06,310 --> 01:15:11,981
So when I went on stage
5,000 seats all set up,
1175
01:15:12,024 --> 01:15:14,359
white seats, and the thing is...
1176
01:15:14,693 --> 01:15:17,278
And I said, ''This is...''
1177
01:15:18,572 --> 01:15:23,201
So when I played a show, they jumped
out of their seats and rushed the stage.
1178
01:15:24,912 --> 01:15:29,082
South Africa made me feel like
more than a prince.
1179
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:33,044
(Eva) And then signing the autographs
for, like, a couple of hours.
1180
01:15:33,087 --> 01:15:37,298
I mean, just the line of people
bringing their guitars to be signed,
1181
01:15:37,383 --> 01:15:39,425
bringing their CDs and...
1182
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:40,969
(Regan) The most amazing thing I'd seen
1183
01:15:41,053 --> 01:15:43,930
was the man with his tattoo
of the Cold Fact.
1184
01:15:44,014 --> 01:15:48,101
He was a Rodriguez impersonator.
That just stoked my fire.
1185
01:15:48,143 --> 01:15:51,229
I was like,
''Man, that is just too crazy.''
1186
01:15:54,108 --> 01:15:56,317
I have with me here,
presented to Rodriguez
1187
01:15:56,402 --> 01:15:58,319
for sales of the album Cold Fact.
1188
01:15:58,445 --> 01:16:00,321
(whooping and cheering)
1189
01:16:04,285 --> 01:16:06,119
Now just tell the States that,
OK, will you?
1190
01:16:06,161 --> 01:16:07,620
(all laughing)
1191
01:16:07,746 --> 01:16:11,958
American singer Rodriguez
is certainly alive and well
1192
01:16:12,001 --> 01:16:14,335
and with us in the Front Row tonight.
Welcome.
1193
01:16:14,461 --> 01:16:15,920
Very kind. How are you?
1194
01:16:16,005 --> 01:16:18,923
I've heard some really riveting tales
about your ''death.''
1195
01:16:19,008 --> 01:16:22,010
I mean, they range from you pouring
petrol all over yourself on stage
1196
01:16:22,094 --> 01:16:27,098
and committing suicide to taking
a drug overdose and dying in prison.
1197
01:16:37,276 --> 01:16:42,989
(Eva) Yeah, it was a beautiful,
beautiful dream
1198
01:16:44,992 --> 01:16:47,702
and then you gotta go back. (laughs)
1199
01:16:47,828 --> 01:16:50,455
My dad said he's got two lives.
1200
01:16:51,540 --> 01:16:55,710
The carriage turns into the pumpkin bus
or something. It's like...
1201
01:16:55,836 --> 01:16:58,212
(male interviewer)
Did people in Detroit believe you
1202
01:16:58,297 --> 01:17:01,341
when you came back
and told them what had happened?
1203
01:17:01,383 --> 01:17:05,511
You know, people in Detroit
need to hear something good.
1204
01:17:06,347 --> 01:17:08,348
I'm not sure how much of it
they believed
1205
01:17:08,390 --> 01:17:10,892
because it is a grandiose story.
1206
01:17:12,061 --> 01:17:13,645
It sounds like something
you would make up
1207
01:17:13,729 --> 01:17:16,981
if you were bragging on some dream
or something.
1208
01:17:18,067 --> 01:17:20,485
(Ferretti) He was really quite famous.
1209
01:17:20,569 --> 01:17:23,237
He'd be, you know,
tearing down this old shack
1210
01:17:23,322 --> 01:17:26,866
or he'd be sweeping up filth or dirt
1211
01:17:26,909 --> 01:17:30,078
and he started to show me one day,
and I didn't believe him,
1212
01:17:30,162 --> 01:17:33,998
about the album
and how it got to be so popular.
1213
01:17:34,083 --> 01:17:35,750
Somebody had a bootleg copy
of this thing
1214
01:17:35,876 --> 01:17:37,919
and it spread around and everyone...
1215
01:17:38,003 --> 01:17:42,674
It got to be so popular
that children could recite it
1216
01:17:42,758 --> 01:17:47,095
and sing the song word for word...
all of the songs word for word.
1217
01:17:47,179 --> 01:17:50,598
And I had never heard of the album
and I said, ''Can you get me an album?''
1218
01:17:50,683 --> 01:17:52,100
And he couldn't even get me one.
1219
01:17:52,184 --> 01:17:55,019
I mean, that's how
obscure of a thing it was.
1220
01:17:55,104 --> 01:18:00,066
But he had all these photos and stuff,
with these giant crowds,
1221
01:18:00,109 --> 01:18:03,111
20,000 people,
like Woodstock or something.
1222
01:18:03,195 --> 01:18:04,779
Like, ''Are you kidding me? That's you?''
1223
01:18:06,115 --> 01:18:09,117
I thought it was Photoshopped
or something. I didn't believe him.
1224
01:18:09,201 --> 01:18:12,870
But he had all these giant crowds
and he was quite content
1225
01:18:12,955 --> 01:18:16,582
to just go and sweep up people's lawns
1226
01:18:16,625 --> 01:18:20,628
or clean up and do manual labour.
He stayed.
1227
01:18:21,630 --> 01:18:27,135
He lives a very, very, very modest life.
1228
01:18:29,054 --> 01:18:30,430
Definitely.
1229
01:18:31,140 --> 01:18:33,307
There's definitely no excess,
1230
01:18:34,768 --> 01:18:39,897
and he definitely still works hard
in order to make ends meet.
1231
01:18:40,607 --> 01:18:46,446
And there's no glamour to his life
in that sense.
1232
01:18:46,488 --> 01:18:49,115
(male interviewer)
But he must be a rich man today?
1233
01:18:49,158 --> 01:18:51,325
(Regan) No.
1234
01:18:51,410 --> 01:18:55,329
Rich in a lot of things
but perhaps not material things.
1235
01:18:55,414 --> 01:18:57,749
I guess it just never got to that.
1236
01:18:57,833 --> 01:18:59,417
(male interviewer) But he's sold
hundreds of thousands of records
1237
01:18:59,501 --> 01:19:00,960
in South Africa.
1238
01:19:01,003 --> 01:19:02,420
Well, yes.
1239
01:19:03,505 --> 01:19:07,300
But I believe there's a great deal
of perhaps bootlegging,
1240
01:19:08,510 --> 01:19:11,721
piracy, such like that. Perhaps...
1241
01:19:12,973 --> 01:19:15,183
Perhaps other people are rich.
1242
01:19:19,521 --> 01:19:21,814
(♫ I'll Slip Away by Rodriguez)
1243
01:19:34,077 --> 01:19:38,331
♫ And I forget about the girl
that said no
1244
01:19:39,249 --> 01:19:43,169
♫ Then I'll tell who I want where to go
1245
01:19:43,837 --> 01:19:48,007
♫ And I'll forget about your lies
and deceit
1246
01:19:48,717 --> 01:19:52,720
♫ And your attempts to be so discreet
1247
01:19:53,180 --> 01:19:57,934
♫ Maybe today
Yeah
1248
01:19:58,393 --> 01:20:00,436
♫ I'll slip away
1249
01:20:03,232 --> 01:20:07,276
♫ And you can keep
your symbols of success
1250
01:20:07,945 --> 01:20:12,073
♫ Then I'll pursue my own happiness
1251
01:20:12,699 --> 01:20:16,077
♫ And you can keep your clocks
and routines
1252
01:20:16,203 --> 01:20:17,745
(Segerman) You know,
when I think about that night
1253
01:20:17,788 --> 01:20:19,747
when I spoke to Eva on the telephone,
1254
01:20:20,457 --> 01:20:23,584
we could not have imagined
how much our lives were gonna change
1255
01:20:23,627 --> 01:20:25,253
after that phone call.
1256
01:20:25,295 --> 01:20:27,296
Eva came on tour with Rodriguez
1257
01:20:27,422 --> 01:20:30,049
and the organisers arranged
a chaperone bodyguard
1258
01:20:30,092 --> 01:20:32,593
to drive them around
and they fell in love.
1259
01:20:32,636 --> 01:20:34,136
And they have a child.
1260
01:20:34,263 --> 01:20:38,808
So Rodriguez has a South African
grandson, a South African grandchild.
1261
01:20:38,934 --> 01:20:42,270
For me, I used to be a jeweller
in Johannesburg.
1262
01:20:42,312 --> 01:20:44,730
I now live in Cape Town
and have a music store.
1263
01:20:44,773 --> 01:20:47,775
Things changed so much for us.
1264
01:20:47,901 --> 01:20:50,236
But, except for one person,
and that's Rodriguez.
1265
01:20:50,279 --> 01:20:52,446
For him, nothing has changed.
1266
01:20:52,489 --> 01:20:56,075
The life that he was living
is still the life that he's living now.
1267
01:20:56,118 --> 01:21:00,288
(Emmerson) What he's demonstrated
very clearly is that you have a choice.
1268
01:21:00,330 --> 01:21:03,457
He took all that torment,
all that agony,
1269
01:21:03,500 --> 01:21:05,585
all that confusion and pain,
1270
01:21:05,627 --> 01:21:08,421
and he transformed it
into something beautiful.
1271
01:21:09,131 --> 01:21:11,257
He's like the silk worm, you know?
1272
01:21:11,300 --> 01:21:16,470
You take this raw material
and you transform it.
1273
01:21:16,597 --> 01:21:19,974
And you come out with something
that wasn't there before.
1274
01:21:20,100 --> 01:21:21,475
Something beautiful.
1275
01:21:21,518 --> 01:21:25,354
Something perhaps transcendent.
Something perhaps eternal.
1276
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:27,523
Insofar as he does that,
1277
01:21:27,649 --> 01:21:32,778
I think he's representative
of the human spirit, of what's possible.
1278
01:21:32,821 --> 01:21:36,449
That you have a choice.
''And this has been my choice,
1279
01:21:36,491 --> 01:21:38,659
''to give you Sugar Man.''
1280
01:21:38,702 --> 01:21:40,828
Now, have you done that? Ask yourself.
1281
01:21:40,954 --> 01:21:42,371
(♫ Crucify Your Mind by Rodriguez)
1282
01:21:42,456 --> 01:21:45,374
♫ Was it a huntsman or a player
1283
01:21:45,459 --> 01:21:48,044
♫ That made you pay the cost
1284
01:21:48,170 --> 01:21:50,880
♫ That now assumes relaxed positions
1285
01:21:51,006 --> 01:21:53,966
♫ And prostitutes your loss?
1286
01:21:54,051 --> 01:21:56,844
♫ Were you tortured by your own thirst
1287
01:21:56,887 --> 01:21:59,639
♫ In those pleasures that you seek
1288
01:21:59,681 --> 01:22:02,516
♫ That made you Tom the Curious
1289
01:22:02,559 --> 01:22:05,144
♫ That makes you James the Weak?
1290
01:22:15,822 --> 01:22:20,201
♫ But you claim
you've got something going
1291
01:22:22,996 --> 01:22:25,873
♫ Something you call unique
1292
01:22:29,044 --> 01:22:31,796
♫ But I've seen your self-pity showing
1293
01:22:34,216 --> 01:22:37,718
♫ As the tears roll down your cheeks
1294
01:22:48,271 --> 01:22:50,898
♫ Soon you know I'll leave you
1295
01:22:50,941 --> 01:22:53,567
♫ And I'll never look behind
1296
01:22:53,652 --> 01:22:56,445
♫ Cos I was born for the purpose
1297
01:22:56,571 --> 01:22:59,240
♫ That crucifies your mind
1298
01:22:59,282 --> 01:23:01,993
♫ So con, convince your mirror
1299
01:23:02,119 --> 01:23:04,912
♫ As you've always done before
1300
01:23:04,997 --> 01:23:07,665
♫ Giving substance to shadows
1301
01:23:07,749 --> 01:23:10,918
♫ Giving substance ever more
1302
01:23:20,679 --> 01:23:25,182
♫ And you assume
you got something to offer
1303
01:23:28,020 --> 01:23:30,479
♫ Secrets shiny and new
1304
01:23:33,650 --> 01:23:36,360
♫ But how much of you is repetition
1305
01:23:39,322 --> 01:23:41,949
♫ That you didn't whisper to him too
1306
01:23:54,463 --> 01:23:56,464
(♫ Sugar Man by Rodriguez)
1307
01:24:01,636 --> 01:24:06,140
♫ Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
1308
01:24:07,476 --> 01:24:11,353
♫ Cos I'm tired of these scenes
1309
01:24:12,064 --> 01:24:16,484
♫ For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
1310
01:24:17,736 --> 01:24:21,655
♫ All those colours to my dreams?
1311
01:24:23,241 --> 01:24:28,037
♫ Silver magic ships, you carry
1312
01:24:28,663 --> 01:24:33,209
♫ Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
1313
01:24:36,379 --> 01:24:41,008
♫ Sugar man met a false friend
1314
01:24:41,885 --> 01:24:45,721
♫ On a lonely dusty road
1315
01:24:46,389 --> 01:24:50,684
♫ Lost my heart when I found it
1316
01:24:51,853 --> 01:24:55,689
♫ It had turned to dead black coal
1317
01:24:57,275 --> 01:25:02,029
♫ Silver magic ships, you carry
1318
01:25:02,697 --> 01:25:07,076
♫ Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
1319
01:25:10,038 --> 01:25:14,625
♫ Sugar man, you're the answer
1320
01:25:15,210 --> 01:25:19,547
♫ That makes my questions disappear
1321
01:25:20,132 --> 01:25:24,718
♫ Sugar man, cos I'm weary
1322
01:25:25,387 --> 01:25:29,598
♫ Of those double games I hear
1323
01:25:32,561 --> 01:25:34,812
♫ Sugar Man
1324
01:25:35,397 --> 01:25:37,565
♫ Sugar Man
1325
01:25:37,899 --> 01:25:40,109
♫ Sugar Man
1326
01:25:40,235 --> 01:25:42,403
♫ Sugar Man
1327
01:25:42,779 --> 01:25:45,030
♫ Sugar Man
1328
01:25:45,574 --> 01:25:47,575
♫ Sugar Man
1329
01:25:48,118 --> 01:25:50,077
♫ Sugar Man