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BOBBY: When I tell people my story
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they don't believe it.
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I guess I wouldn't believe the story
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if someone else were telling it, but, I'm
telling it and it's true, every word of it.
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It started when I was born, 56 years ago,
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but the real story began when I was
19 years old and I went to college.
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BOBBY: It was 1980. It was the first day of school
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00:01:22,791 --> 00:01:25,918
at Sullivan County Community
College up in the Catskills,
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00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:30,189
about 110 miles from where I grew
up. So, I drove up there alone.
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# I get the same old dreams #
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# Same time every night #
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- # Fall to the ground and I wake up... #
- I used to have this really old car.
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It was a Volvo. And it was a 1970 Volvo.
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Had like 130,000 miles on it. And the car
was burgundy and the hood was green.
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- Actually, the car was called the Old Bitch.
- # Since you been gone #
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# Since you been gone #
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- # I'm out of my head... #
- But the Old Bitch got me there.
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Sullivan was a community college.
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This wasn't some longstanding
institution of higher learning.
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All these station wagons are dropping kids off.
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I was nervous, I'd just gotten to the school,
I didn't know anybody. I was a freshman.
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I was never the captain of the
football team in high school,
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so I was never really like popular.
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So, I'm walking around trying
to find where my dorm is.
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Meanwhile all these people are coming up to me
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saying "Hi, how are you?"
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"How was your summer?" "Mine was
great. How was yours?" "Super".
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Why are they asking me how my
summer was? I don't know.
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Everybody's being extremely friendly to me
and they're going out of their way to do it.
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I don't mean just a "hi", I mean, claps
on the back and high fives.
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And I was a little bit bewildered by this because
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no one gets this kind of a welcome
on their first day at school.
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And girls were kissing me,
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like fully kissing me saying, "I'm
so glad you came back".
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And I was saying "thank you" and "hello" back
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but I had never been there before
and I didn't know them.
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It was bizarre.
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And the next thing I heard from right behind me.
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"Welcome back. Eddy!"
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"Eddy! How are you? Eddy, hi!"
I'm like, "My name's not Eddy.
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"I don't know what you're talking
about. I just got up here."
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"Sure, Eddy, you're really funny,
you're really funny, real funny."
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I'm like, "I'm not Eddy. I don't
know who Eddy is."
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"Welcome back, Eddy", they were all saying.
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I finally made it to this dump of a dorm room.
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Before a minute had gone by...
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"Who now? Who now is gonna
come to find Eddy?"
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I had been at college
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the previous year with Eddy, and I knew
that he wasn't coming back to school.
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00:04:04,127 --> 00:04:08,973
As soon as this guy turned around,
I... I was, I was actually shaking.
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I was... I know all colour from my face dropped
'cause I knew it was his double.
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He had the same grin, the same
hair, the same expressions.
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- It was his double.
- And I see this guy's face and he's like...
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just standing there.
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The first thing out of my mouth
was "Were you adopted?"
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and I was like, "Yes".
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I said, "Is your birthday July 12th?" He said yes.
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I was like, "July 12th 1961".
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"Oh my God", I said, "You're not
going to believe this". I said...
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"You have a twin brother. You have a twin."
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- "Oh my God."
- I said, "Come with me".
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And the two of us are crammed
into this phone booth,
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shoulder to shoulder and you know, we had
to like, close the door of the phone booth.
64
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And I'm trying to put the coins in
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and they keep falling on the floor
and Bobby's picking up the coins.
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And he calls this guy and he's like, "Hey,
Eddy, you're not going to believe this,
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"you're not going to believe this. Eddy, Eddy,
you are not going to believe this."
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This guy's more hysterical
than I am like weirded out.
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"Eddy, you are not going to believe this."
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So I was like, "Give me the phone."
So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?" "Yes."
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But it was my voice that said, "Yes."
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And I said, "Hi, Eddy, my name is Robert Shafran
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"and, um... I'm meeting all these
people "who say I'm you."
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And he said, "Uh-huh, yeah, I've
been getting some calls."
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I said, "Were you adopted?" and he said, "Yes."
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And I said, "When was your birthday?"
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"July 12th."
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And I said, "Do you know what the name of the
agency was?" And he said, "No, hold on".
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And I heard him go like, "Mum?"
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And he came back and he said,
"Louise Wise Services."
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Sometimes when you are just having a dream,
you know this can't be real, this can't be real.
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But you know there's nothing you can do to
stop it, start it, change it, you just go with it
83
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and that's what I was doing. I just wanted
to see what was gonna happen next.
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And I'm like, "Let's go. Let's go meet Eddy".
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So we got into the Old Bitch.
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It was about 9 o'clock at night
and it's about a two-hour ride.
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And we were speeding on route 17.
88
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We were going 100 miles per hour, perhaps more.
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We were speeding.
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We're driving as fast as this car
would go. It was shaking.
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00:06:53,094 --> 00:06:56,799
And we got pulled over by
a New York State trooper.
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00:07:01,755 --> 00:07:05,257
And as I roll down my window
there's this gigantic cop
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00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:07,760
with like the sunglasses even
though it's night time.
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In the big hat. He said, "You know,
I clocked you at 88 in a 50.
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- "Son, you better have a really good reason."
- And I was like,
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"Well, Officer, you're never
going to believe this."
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The two of us are like yelling at this guy.
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"You, you don't know, "this guy,
this guy has a twin brother,
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"he was adopted and we're going
to Long Island to go see..."
100
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And, and, and the guy was,
"Yeah, right." You know.
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"Here's, here's your ticket have a good day."
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And on to Long Island we went.
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BOBBY: So, we got there.
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But it's like, the middle of the night.
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And it's this really quiet neighbourhood.
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So, we get out of the car.
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And walk up this little path to the house.
And the lights were on in the house.
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And I reached out to knock on the door
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and as I reached out to knock
on the door it opens.
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And there I am.
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His eyes were my eyes and
my eyes were his eyes
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and it's true.
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MICHAEL: They looked exactly alike.
They're duplicates of each other.
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There was no doubt in my
mind that they were twins.
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He's going, "Oh my God".
I'm going, "Oh my God".
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He's going, "Holy crap." I'm going, "Holy crap."
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They just looked at each other and they moved...
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Every time Bobby moved his head, Eddy moved
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and then Eddy would move and
then Bobby would move,
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like... like they were looking at a mirror.
121
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It was the weirdest thing.
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It was like the world faded away,
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and it was just me and Eddy.
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SCHNEIDER: So, I'm in the newsroom,
it's the middle of a busy day,
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we got a call from somebody who says
they have an amazing story to tell us,
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we are not going to believe this story,
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00:09:27,734 --> 00:09:30,944
and my first reaction, "Ah, it's a hoax".
128
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So, I told our reporter, "I want to rent a plane".
129
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In those days we had enough money to do this.
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"I... I want to rent a plane, I want to see these
two kids face to face or I don't believe this."
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We flew the journalist up to
Sullivan Community College
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and he called me and he said,
"Howie, it's true, it's true.
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And I remember saying, "Oh my
God, this is a great story.
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00:09:57,931 --> 00:10:02,217
"This is a memorable heart-warming story."
135
00:10:02,218 --> 00:10:08,824
And then the story went from being amazing to
incredible, OK, from amazing to incredible.
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00:10:12,862 --> 00:10:16,448
ELLEN: I was on the New York Subway.
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00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:18,826
Quite late at night.
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00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:24,248
Read an article about two boys
who found each other.
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That were twins separated at
birth and found each other
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at Sullivan County Community College.
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There was no picture, but
the story was fascinating.
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I came home, and went to sleep.
143
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My mother came into the room
144
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and said, "Wake up, wake up, I
have to show you something".
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And she shows me a newspaper
146
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:52,526
with a picture of two boys
147
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and I had to like, focus and I looked at the
photograph and I said, "Is that David?"
148
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And she's like, "No, but look at the hands".
149
00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:10,202
And I was like, "Holy mackerel.
This is beyond amazing".
150
00:11:10,203 --> 00:11:13,463
It was a picture in the newspaper of two guys,
151
00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:18,385
in the "Post" and I picked up
the picture and I looked at it,
152
00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:20,554
and I was like in shock,
153
00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:24,308
cos the two guys in the "Post"
looked exactly, exactly
154
00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:28,312
like... like my friend David. I stared at it.
155
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,647
And it wasn't even just the look on their face.
156
00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:33,492
It was the way that they
were holding their hands.
157
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They have these big meaty hands.
And David always had this,
158
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:40,048
these hands that looked like baseball mitts.
159
00:11:40,049 --> 00:11:47,172
And when I saw their hands, I
just knew that this is David.
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00:11:52,587 --> 00:11:56,798
DAVID: It was just a normal day. I got to
school, ran into my buddy Alan.
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00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:59,676
He said, "David, take a look at this".
162
00:11:59,677 --> 00:12:02,179
And he's got a copy of the "New York Post".
163
00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:07,726
And, um, he opens it up and says, "Look at this.
"Look, look familiar?" Something to that effect.
164
00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:11,238
And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure".
165
00:12:12,574 --> 00:12:16,476
But then we looked at it
a little bit more closely.
166
00:12:18,321 --> 00:12:22,950
It was an article, it said, "Twins reunited
after more than 19 years".
167
00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:27,504
And it had a picture of two
of what looked like me.
168
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:31,875
It all started to sink in.
169
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:35,045
"Holy shit, oh my God.
170
00:12:35,046 --> 00:12:39,850
"Do you? This is un... this is not believable,
this is, this is unbelievable. Wow!
171
00:12:39,851 --> 00:12:45,055
"This... this is big, this is serious, this is just
not some kind of crazy coincidence.
172
00:12:45,056 --> 00:12:47,549
"This is not a minor resemblance.
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00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:51,945
"This is real, this is happening,
this is really, really serious."
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00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:55,815
I ditched classes and got home.
175
00:12:55,816 --> 00:12:58,968
My mother was waiting at the kitchen
table with a cup of coffee.
176
00:12:58,969 --> 00:13:00,737
And I said, "Mum, you see this?"
177
00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:04,700
She said, "You see this?" And we
kinda exchanged newspapers.
178
00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:07,452
It had "...born Long Island Jewish Hospital".
179
00:13:07,453 --> 00:13:09,997
"July 12th, 1961."
180
00:13:09,998 --> 00:13:13,709
And it was Louise Wise adoption agency.
181
00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:16,712
I mean, I always knew growing
up that I was adopted.
182
00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:18,880
My parents were always open about it.
183
00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:22,050
But it said Eddy Galland of New
Hyde Park, Long Island,
184
00:13:22,051 --> 00:13:24,344
Robert Shafran of Scarsdale, New York.
185
00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:28,807
I remember it said, "Son of prominent
Scarsdale physician Mort Shafran"
186
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:33,020
and, uh... my first thought, I said,
"He's got the wealthy family.
187
00:13:33,021 --> 00:13:38,901
"That SOB's probably driving
a Benz! He got a doctor!"
188
00:13:39,736 --> 00:13:42,488
ALAN: And I remember being
with David in the kitchen.
189
00:13:42,947 --> 00:13:45,198
We were like, really nervous.
190
00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:48,385
I mean we were, you know,
jumping around, it was...
191
00:13:48,386 --> 00:13:51,913
You know, we were 19 years
old. I mean this was surreal.
192
00:13:51,914 --> 00:13:57,020
And David picked up the phone
and he called Information,
193
00:13:57,021 --> 00:13:59,296
and he reached Eddy's mum.
194
00:13:59,297 --> 00:14:04,176
- And I said, "Hi, is Eddy home?"
- She says, "No, who's calling, please?"
195
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:07,719
And I thought, "OK, "now I've gotta go
into this whole thing on the phone".
196
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:14,603
I said, "Well, my name is David Kellman,
and I was born July 12th 1961
197
00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:16,772
"and I'm looking at a newspaper
198
00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:23,445
"and, uh... basically I think I'm looking at
two of me. I think I might be the third".
199
00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:26,381
And I think she dropped the phone, actually.
200
00:14:26,382 --> 00:14:29,826
And I remember hearing her voice over the phone,
201
00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:33,713
"Oh my God, they're coming
out of the woodwork!"
202
00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:43,992
HEDY: It was a miracle.
203
00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:50,514
The first time that the boys met together,
the three together was at my house.
204
00:14:50,515 --> 00:14:55,811
And the three of them ended up like
puppies wrestling on the floor.
205
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:59,606
It was the most incredible...
206
00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:04,327
it was the most incredible thing.
They belonged to each other.
207
00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:09,282
They knew each other. There
was no formal introduction.
208
00:15:09,283 --> 00:15:12,619
I mean, when you meet somebody
for the first time
209
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:16,663
you don't end up rolling around
on the floor with them.
210
00:15:16,664 --> 00:15:22,546
It was truly not fully believable. Even though
it was happening it was still surreal.
211
00:15:22,547 --> 00:15:24,464
You think you're dreaming.
212
00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:27,134
You're looking and you're still "Oh my God".
213
00:15:27,135 --> 00:15:28,885
You look at the other one, "Oh my God".
214
00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:30,887
And then you realise that they're looking at you
215
00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:32,639
or everybody else is looking at you too.
216
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:40,522
To have all three of them in the house
at one time... it was really madness.
217
00:15:41,031 --> 00:15:44,192
My emotions were shock, shock and more shock.
218
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:52,117
I mean, I... I can't... can't explain
it, I haven't got the terminology.
219
00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:55,829
One of our reporters came running
over to me and said
220
00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:58,081
"You're not going to believe this,
221
00:15:58,082 --> 00:16:02,377
"you are not going to believe
the call we just got.
222
00:16:02,378 --> 00:16:04,880
"You know the two kids on the front page today?
223
00:16:04,881 --> 00:16:07,257
"Well, there's a third."
224
00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:10,994
They even moved the same way.
225
00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:19,778
All of us just sat back and watched
three separate lives becoming one.
226
00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:24,874
The way I put it was I looked more
like Eddy than I did David,
227
00:16:24,875 --> 00:16:27,027
and more like David than I did Eddy,
228
00:16:27,028 --> 00:16:30,071
and more like either of them
than they did like each other.
229
00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:32,574
Does that make sense?
230
00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:46,405
- And then we started comparing notes.
- What do 19-year-olds compare?
231
00:16:47,507 --> 00:16:53,428
Booze, cigarettes, food, women, music, cars.
232
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:56,806
I had just brought a brand new
Mercury Capri, which I loved.
233
00:16:56,807 --> 00:17:03,833
And Bobby had this, Maroon beat up old Volvo
with cracked leather seats and I'm thinking,
234
00:17:03,834 --> 00:17:08,861
"Hmm, son of a prominent
Scarsdale physician, huh?"
235
00:17:10,404 --> 00:17:14,349
SCHNEIDER: I think it was Eddy who
said right at the beginning,
236
00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:19,913
"I don't know if this will turn
out to be great or terrible."
237
00:17:19,914 --> 00:17:24,584
So, there was always a question
mark, a big question mark,
238
00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:28,129
about where the story eventually was going.
239
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:34,486
We didn't realise from then on just how
much things were going to change.
240
00:17:34,487 --> 00:17:39,032
"Now one of the most remarkable stories I've
seen in some time: "a story about triplets.
241
00:17:40,725 --> 00:17:44,604
"Eddy and Robert and David
reunited after 19 years."
242
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:49,451
"We have a story about triplets that gives new
meaning to the phrase long lost brothers."
243
00:17:50,519 --> 00:17:55,365
- We went on everything. Everything.
- "You're not seeing double you are
244
00:17:55,366 --> 00:17:57,158
perhaps in a moment going to be seeing triple."
245
00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:58,493
"I don't know who's who here.
246
00:17:58,494 --> 00:18:02,631
"Come on out here, gentlemen, come on out."
247
00:18:02,632 --> 00:18:08,078
You just had to stop what you're doing and
watch them on every different show.
248
00:18:08,979 --> 00:18:11,564
SCHNEIDER: It became a circus,
it became a media circus.
249
00:18:11,565 --> 00:18:14,884
Talk about viral, I mean this
was... it was viral even then.
250
00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:16,720
"You guys have been on the front
page of every newspaper
251
00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:19,681
- "in the world."
- TRIPLETS: "True."
252
00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:26,813
"People Magazine", "Time Magazine", even the
"New York Times", "Good Housekeeping".
253
00:18:28,232 --> 00:18:30,834
"David, let's begin with you. Which
one's David, I keep forgetting?"
254
00:18:30,835 --> 00:18:32,152
- "You're Edward?"
- "Right."
255
00:18:32,153 --> 00:18:33,445
"OK, who are you, are you David?"
256
00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:34,779
- "I'm Bobby."
- "Oh, you're... I'm sorry.
257
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,449
"You're Robert, all right. Robert and Edward."
258
00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:40,410
"Come on."
259
00:18:42,872 --> 00:18:46,708
It was a fairy tale story.
260
00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,611
And people need to hear wonderful things.
261
00:18:50,612 --> 00:18:56,176
"These three young men, they're
all seated in the same position."
262
00:18:57,887 --> 00:19:00,564
It was kind of amazing. They
really were strangers.
263
00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:03,850
They looked identical to each other
but they were strangers, right?
264
00:19:03,851 --> 00:19:08,395
You know, they really didn't know one another.
But their behaviours were so similar.
265
00:19:08,396 --> 00:19:11,124
"Our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree.
266
00:19:11,125 --> 00:19:13,787
- "It's... it's ridiculous."
- "We're all the same,
267
00:19:13,788 --> 00:19:15,262
"as soon as we started discussing
268
00:19:15,263 --> 00:19:16,989
- "our personalities."
- "Personalities are the same,
269
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:18,823
- "We always talk at the same time."
- our gestures are the same."
270
00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:21,677
- "I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it."
- EDDY: "We all like Chinese food."
271
00:19:21,678 --> 00:19:22,933
BROKAW: "You were all wrestlers at one time?"
272
00:19:22,934 --> 00:19:24,087
TRIPLETS: "Yes."
273
00:19:24,088 --> 00:19:26,538
- "You all smoke the same brand of cigarettes?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
274
00:19:26,539 --> 00:19:29,709
- "What kind of cigarettes do you smoke?"
- "Marlboro."
275
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:32,545
- "Do you all smoke the same brand?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
276
00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:35,256
- "Do you like the same colours?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
277
00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:37,275
"Yeah, I was curious, how's
their taste in women,
278
00:19:37,276 --> 00:19:40,870
- "is it similar?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes. Definitely."
279
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:45,792
- It seems they all liked older women.
- "Somebody said you all liked older women."
280
00:19:45,793 --> 00:19:48,503
TRIPLETS: "Well..."
281
00:19:51,232 --> 00:19:53,091
NEWSREADER: "Another astonishing coincidence
282
00:19:53,092 --> 00:19:56,403
"is that each of the brothers grew
up with an adoptive sister,
283
00:19:56,404 --> 00:20:00,390
"all the girls now 21 years old."
284
00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:04,368
"I can't get over it, I tell you."
285
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:07,346
"An extraordinary string of coincidences
you all have to agree, right?"
286
00:20:07,347 --> 00:20:08,039
"It's beautiful."
287
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,755
INTERVIEWER: "You say you love each other,
but you're only known each other
288
00:20:09,756 --> 00:20:11,426
- for such a short time."
- "Doesn't matter"
289
00:20:11,427 --> 00:20:12,627
"I've known them my whole life."
290
00:20:12,628 --> 00:20:14,504
"How long did it take for you
to have that feeling?"
291
00:20:14,505 --> 00:20:16,590
"Like that."
292
00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:23,439
SCHNEIDER: They were more like clones
than they were like brothers.
293
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:27,006
It was just absolutely astounding
294
00:20:27,007 --> 00:20:31,404
because they grew up it would appear
to be pretty different households.
295
00:20:35,776 --> 00:20:39,529
DAVID: We'd been adopted
by a blue-collar family,
296
00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:44,483
a middle-class family and
a more affluent family.
297
00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:52,042
Bobby's parents, Bobby's father
was a medical doctor.
298
00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:55,462
And his mother was an attorney.
299
00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:56,980
So they were very well educated
300
00:20:56,981 --> 00:21:03,303
and they were living in one of the most
prestigious areas of the country.
301
00:21:05,306 --> 00:21:10,226
Eddy's father was a teacher,
he had a college education.
302
00:21:10,227 --> 00:21:14,606
And they lived in what would be considered
303
00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:17,575
a middle-class neighbourhood.
304
00:21:18,819 --> 00:21:25,283
My family on paper were the least educated,
305
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:30,246
they were immigrants, English
was a second language to them,
306
00:21:30,247 --> 00:21:37,462
they had a little store, they were
the more blue-collar family.
307
00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:44,385
Um, but my father was just this
incredibly generous warm guy.
308
00:21:44,386 --> 00:21:49,274
David's father, Richard was,
uh... was larger than life.
309
00:21:51,852 --> 00:21:54,020
If you could imagine this guy was a big guy,
310
00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:58,441
with a big cigar always hanging
out of his mouth.
311
00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:04,280
- We referred to him as "bubala".
- ELLEN: He was "Bubala."
312
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:10,286
If you know Yiddish, "bubala" it's like
love, it's hugging and it's kissing.
313
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:14,791
BOBBY: We spent more time at David's
house than any place else.
314
00:22:14,792 --> 00:22:19,587
Bubala celebrated us like no other person.
315
00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:22,773
He said, "I have two more sons".
316
00:22:28,097 --> 00:22:32,557
When the boys found each other
it just sort of happened
317
00:22:32,558 --> 00:22:34,018
then and there.
318
00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:37,647
Here is this wonderful story and that's it.
319
00:22:37,648 --> 00:22:42,986
Nobody questioned what was going
on except the parents of course.
320
00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:51,870
HEDY: When the families met up the first
time there was great anger in all of them
321
00:22:51,871 --> 00:22:58,126
about the fact that the parents had never been
told that there were two other children.
322
00:22:59,753 --> 00:23:03,631
ELLIOTT: They didn't tell us a word
when we were adopting.
323
00:23:03,632 --> 00:23:06,342
We knew nothing about the other two
324
00:23:06,343 --> 00:23:13,608
until, uh... the boys met at... at
school, that was 20 years later.
325
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:18,229
HEDY: The first thing that hit
me was what they lost.
326
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:21,733
I believe they were six months
old when they were separated.
327
00:23:21,734 --> 00:23:25,445
If you imagine those three
little bodies lying together
328
00:23:25,446 --> 00:23:31,952
and suddenly the coldness
of being alone in a crib.
329
00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:36,598
It's a terrible deprivation.
330
00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:42,460
DAVID: I remember being told by my mother
331
00:23:42,461 --> 00:23:46,424
when I was a baby that I would
slam my head against the wall,
332
00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:51,112
- I would... I would basically knock myself out.
- My mother said that I would bang my head
333
00:23:51,113 --> 00:23:53,481
on the inside of the crib...
334
00:23:55,351 --> 00:24:00,271
and I would hold my breath until I passed out.
335
00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:06,111
I believe it was absolutely separation anxiety
336
00:24:09,323 --> 00:24:13,097
All of us had been adopted
from Louise Wise Services.
337
00:24:13,098 --> 00:24:15,111
REPORTER: "Louise Wise Services,
338
00:24:15,112 --> 00:24:19,374
"the New York institution founded back in 1916
339
00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:23,002
"overseen by a board of directors
drawn from New York City's
340
00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:26,064
"social, financial and political elite."
341
00:24:26,065 --> 00:24:30,510
DAVID: They were the pre-eminent
adoption agency
342
00:24:30,511 --> 00:24:37,550
on the East Coast for Jewish babies in
particular. That was the place to go.
343
00:24:37,551 --> 00:24:41,688
"What we have felt at Louise Wise Services
344
00:24:41,689 --> 00:24:49,278
"where I have been active for a great long time,
is that adoptive parents should be told
345
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:53,866
as much about the background
of a child as is reasonable.
346
00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:57,870
Our parents they... they... they wanted
answers, they were angry.
347
00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:05,371
And they arranged a meeting and they... uh...
six of them went in to Louise Wise Agency
348
00:25:05,872 --> 00:25:10,675
to try to get some answers in terms
of piecing together what happened.
349
00:25:21,395 --> 00:25:27,775
ALICE: There was a meeting with
the top brass at the agency.
350
00:25:27,776 --> 00:25:29,569
And they were asked,
351
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:34,048
"Is it true that you separated
these boys at birth?"
352
00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:42,507
And they said, "Yes, we did".
353
00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:47,420
"Why"?
354
00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,840
"How could you not tell us?"
355
00:25:50,841 --> 00:25:53,593
"What did you do?"
356
00:25:53,594 --> 00:25:56,979
"Why and how could you?"
357
00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,600
ALICE: They said the reason was
358
00:26:00,601 --> 00:26:06,355
because it was hard to place
three children in one home.
359
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:11,569
The parents had been told that it was in our
best interests that we'd been split up.
360
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:21,037
That not every parent would welcome triplets,
and that triplets would be difficult to place.
361
00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:26,751
Which... I... I... I think at that moment
my father blew his stack.
362
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:34,284
And just said, "We would've taken all three.
There's no question". And he was furious.
363
00:26:35,285 --> 00:26:38,537
Well, the meeting came to an end.
364
00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:41,432
BOBBY: They all left.
365
00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:44,560
They felt like they had gotten nothing.
366
00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:49,490
And my father realised that he
had left his umbrella in there.
367
00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:56,573
And he went back to get the umbrella.
368
00:26:58,992 --> 00:27:01,994
And he walked into the room
369
00:27:01,995 --> 00:27:06,666
to see them breaking open
a bottle of champagne...
370
00:27:08,585 --> 00:27:13,681
and toasting each other as if
they had dodged a bullet.
371
00:27:15,342 --> 00:27:25,560
They looked like they'd just... th... just missed,
uh... getting hurt or killed or what have you.
372
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:31,382
It was a uh... that was memorable.
373
00:27:32,042 --> 00:27:36,037
DAVID: All of our parents came
away from that meeting angry.
374
00:27:41,009 --> 00:27:44,302
BOBBY: The parents went to some pretty
prestigious New York law firms
375
00:27:44,303 --> 00:27:48,539
and initially they were met
with a lot of enthusiasm,
376
00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:52,253
and, uh... invariably within
a short period of time
377
00:27:52,254 --> 00:27:57,800
were told, uh... there's a conflict and
they could not take the case.
378
00:27:57,801 --> 00:28:04,932
They said, "We have a number of associates
who are trying to adopt through Louise Wise,
379
00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:09,060
"and we don't want to ruin their chances."
380
00:28:09,061 --> 00:28:12,448
So, that lawsuit was out.
381
00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:21,097
DAVID: We were too happy being
together to be that angry.
382
00:28:21,098 --> 00:28:26,720
We didn't understand it and to a
degree we almost didn't care.
383
00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:32,667
Our heads were in the clouds, we
knew our parents were pissed off
384
00:28:32,668 --> 00:28:36,105
but it was almost like, "Well, that's
our parents' thing to do"
385
00:28:36,106 --> 00:28:41,060
- while we were out partying".
- # Friday night and everyone's moving... #
386
00:28:41,061 --> 00:28:44,097
BOBBY: This was New York in 1980.
387
00:28:45,098 --> 00:28:49,009
Drugs were different, people were different,
sex was different, music was different.
388
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:53,189
Phew... we just... we just took
advantage of all those things.
389
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:56,208
Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll.
390
00:28:56,209 --> 00:28:59,987
# We're the kids in America, whoa... #
391
00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:03,265
They were running amok in New York, I'll say.
392
00:29:04,201 --> 00:29:09,588
Studio 54 was cooking. Limelight. Copacabana.
393
00:29:09,589 --> 00:29:12,291
They were hitting them all.
394
00:29:12,292 --> 00:29:15,928
DAVID: New York loved us. New York loved us.
395
00:29:17,881 --> 00:29:22,803
All the newspapers were following the boys
around no matter where we went.
396
00:29:23,804 --> 00:29:26,472
DAVID: I remember one morning walking in
397
00:29:26,473 --> 00:29:31,435
and my mother throwing the
"New York Post" at me,
398
00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:37,867
at the kitchen table saying, "I gotta look at the
paper to find out where you were last night?"
399
00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:47,451
The boys thought they were going to be stars,
and actually they did star in one movie.
400
00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:50,786
DAVID: Walking down the street,
all of a sudden we hear,
401
00:29:50,787 --> 00:29:55,418
"Guys, guys, you're the guys! Could
you please be in our movie?
402
00:29:55,419 --> 00:29:57,211
"Please be in my movie."
403
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:06,512
We didn't know who she was, and
she was... she was Madonna.
404
00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:11,675
- The stood on the side and ogled her.
- Pretty soon we got an apartment together,
405
00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:14,355
the triplets apartment.
406
00:30:14,856 --> 00:30:22,870
ELLEN: The triplet's apartment... it's like if you
had the most bachelor apartment times three.
407
00:30:22,871 --> 00:30:25,915
The liquor store used to deliver the liquor.
408
00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:33,889
- At one point Eddy had appendicitis.
- He had no insurance.
409
00:30:33,890 --> 00:30:37,418
And so he checked into the hospital as Bobby.
410
00:30:37,419 --> 00:30:40,004
And had his appendix taken out. As Bobby.
411
00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:44,016
I hope to this day Bobby's appendix
stays pretty healthy.
412
00:30:44,384 --> 00:30:49,138
Between working together, playing together,
going out together, going on dates together,
413
00:30:49,139 --> 00:30:50,639
living together,
414
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,103
from the time we met till... well till later
415
00:30:56,104 --> 00:30:59,899
there was nothing, nothing
that could keep us apart.
416
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,861
ILENE: I feel like I was the
first serious girlfriend.
417
00:31:04,738 --> 00:31:07,907
Initially I couldn't really tell them apart
418
00:31:07,908 --> 00:31:09,325
and I would bump into them
419
00:31:09,326 --> 00:31:14,497
and I wasn't quite sure which
one I was going out with, so...
420
00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:20,227
Bob has this very raw, natural,
type of intelligence
421
00:31:20,228 --> 00:31:27,885
- that I think I was attracted too.
- I always thought David was... the best, right,
422
00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:34,016
of the three of them. I, I've said it before,
you know, "I got the pick of the litter."
423
00:31:34,017 --> 00:31:38,679
Without a doubt, Eddy was
the, um... handsomest
424
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,690
of all the three triplets, you know.
425
00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:46,863
Of course, I'm partial but,
you know, I adored him.
426
00:31:48,407 --> 00:31:53,369
When I met him, he was the last holdout.
427
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:57,017
The Casanova of the three...
428
00:31:57,908 --> 00:32:02,787
and I said, "Oh boy, this guy's
a real bachelor, like player".
429
00:32:04,256 --> 00:32:07,508
But he was so warm in his smile
430
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:11,220
and he had wonderful beautiful
hands, soft hands and
431
00:32:11,221 --> 00:32:16,909
when I shook his hand I mean, I just, I...
You know, I just fell in love with him.
432
00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:23,181
I'm from a big colourful Irish catholic family
433
00:32:23,182 --> 00:32:24,775
and he was a Jewish guy.
434
00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:31,740
When he came to the house for the first
time, he looked at my dad and he said,
435
00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:34,952
"I don't know if you know this, Mr Shanley,
436
00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:38,956
"I've been seeing Brenda every night pretty
much since the first day I met her."
437
00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:43,210
And I thought, "Oh my God, my dad knows that,
you know, we're together every night".
438
00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:49,133
And my dad just sort of, you know, looked
at me like, "OK" and that was Eddy.
439
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,736
- "I do."
- "I do."
440
00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:03,397
"We love you."
441
00:33:11,781 --> 00:33:14,825
BRENDA: Everyone loved him.
442
00:33:14,826 --> 00:33:19,413
ELLEN: If there was a scale, Bobby would
be reserved, David would be middle
443
00:33:19,414 --> 00:33:24,969
and Eddy was just the loveable,
mushy, huggable, funny,
444
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:29,223
you know, he just exuded warmth and love.
445
00:33:35,639 --> 00:33:40,392
MRS. SHANLEY: "Jamie's first
Thanksgiving with Daddy".
446
00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:43,395
- "Hi, look who's here."
- "Yes, Daddy."
447
00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:48,234
"Daddy decided to show up and make
a special guest appearance."
448
00:33:48,235 --> 00:33:53,822
# "Happy birthday, dear Jamie #
449
00:33:53,823 --> 00:33:59,704
- # "Happy birthday to you" #
- BRENDA: He loved family gatherings.
450
00:34:02,924 --> 00:34:08,921
ALAN: You know, Eddy really, really loved
being around David and Bobby.
451
00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:13,209
Eddy seemed to get the most out
of the three of them meeting.
452
00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:16,245
Uh... for whatever reason.
453
00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:22,910
BRENDA: He wanted his brothers
and him to have a beautiful life
454
00:34:22,911 --> 00:34:32,111
and everyone to get along... and he wanted
everyone to be one big family.
455
00:34:35,073 --> 00:34:37,763
DAVID: Eddy was absolutely the driving force
456
00:34:37,764 --> 00:34:42,012
in terms of... leading the search
for our birth mother.
457
00:34:42,013 --> 00:34:45,291
He got a fever and he just...
he just wanted to do it.
458
00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:49,378
And Alan was also rallying, because
it was just an exciting thing to do.
459
00:34:49,379 --> 00:34:58,161
We figured what are the chances of
having triplets born in New York
460
00:34:58,662 --> 00:35:02,366
on July 12th 1961.
461
00:35:02,367 --> 00:35:09,940
We figured out that New York public
library shared birth records.
462
00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:12,218
DAVID: We each grabbed a book
463
00:35:12,219 --> 00:35:15,489
and went page by page by page by page by page,
464
00:35:15,490 --> 00:35:22,721
- and within a couple of hours, it was, "Bingo!"
- Male, male, male. Three in a row.
465
00:35:22,722 --> 00:35:26,372
All born July 12th 1961.
466
00:35:26,373 --> 00:35:31,587
DAVID: Right next to it...
birth mother's last name.
467
00:35:33,548 --> 00:35:38,469
The first meeting was a bar on like, 47th Street.
468
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:46,068
It was like, her local neighbourhood watering
hole on the East side, and it was awkward.
469
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:51,523
She told the story of what happened. UM...
unfortunately it wasn't a romantic story.
470
00:35:51,524 --> 00:35:53,609
She was a young girl.
471
00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:58,872
Basically, prom night knock up type thing.
472
00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:12,753
ALAN: I don't think she ever got over the fact
that she had triplets and had to give them up.
473
00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:19,484
You know, to us at 19, you drink like
a fish, you think you're invincible.
474
00:36:22,055 --> 00:36:29,436
But we found it a little concerning that she was
pretty much keeping up with us, you know.
475
00:36:29,437 --> 00:36:36,989
Um, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree
and if that's the tree, I was less than thrilled,
476
00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:43,625
and, um... we had our parents already,
so we met her and... it was OK.
477
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:50,532
But she was not a particularly
close part of our lives.
478
00:36:52,043 --> 00:36:56,922
We were all young and starting
our marriages and careers.
479
00:36:56,923 --> 00:36:58,732
"Hi, welcome to Triplets."
480
00:36:58,733 --> 00:37:03,387
NEWSREADER: "David Kellman, Edward Galland
and Robert Shafran are identical triplets."
481
00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:08,617
"Now they run a New York restaurant called,
"what else, you guessed, Triplets".
482
00:37:13,106 --> 00:37:16,442
JOURNALIST: "Welcome. Hello.
Welcome, welcome."
483
00:37:16,443 --> 00:37:19,052
DAVID: We had a lot of people
who were coming for us.
484
00:37:19,053 --> 00:37:21,071
They came to see the triplets.
485
00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:23,240
They wanted to be waited
on by one of the triplets.
486
00:37:23,241 --> 00:37:28,879
We served vodka frozen blocks of ice, and
we'd get the whole room up and dancing.
487
00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:36,711
It was like this big party going on,
it was like this big Bar Mitzvah.
488
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,561
"Triplets become wildly successful
owning a restaurant
489
00:37:43,562 --> 00:37:46,738
"in the Soho district of New York City."
490
00:37:48,725 --> 00:37:52,202
We did over a million dollars first year.
491
00:37:56,462 --> 00:38:01,870
That's when things kinda got funky.
492
00:38:17,587 --> 00:38:22,341
WRIGHT: In the mid-90s I started working
on a story for "The New Yorker" magazine
493
00:38:22,342 --> 00:38:26,753
about identical twins reared apart.
494
00:38:27,347 --> 00:38:28,847
I've always thought,
495
00:38:28,848 --> 00:38:34,903
"What would it be like if you turned the
corner one day and you saw yourself?"
496
00:38:39,108 --> 00:38:45,906
In the process of my research, I came
across this obscure scientific article.
497
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,124
It referenced this secret study
498
00:38:56,125 --> 00:39:00,596
in which identical siblings had been separated.
499
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:07,177
I was shocked and intrigued.
500
00:39:07,178 --> 00:39:11,515
They were separating identical babies at birth
501
00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:16,103
for the purpose of this scientific experiment.
502
00:39:16,104 --> 00:39:21,942
And these babies had all come from one
adoption agency in New York City.
503
00:39:23,111 --> 00:39:26,588
MICHAEL: "The first thing out of my
mouth was, "Were you adopted?"
504
00:39:26,589 --> 00:39:28,490
BOBBY: "There I am, this can't be real."
505
00:39:28,491 --> 00:39:30,341
ELLEN: "Twins separated at birth."
506
00:39:30,342 --> 00:39:33,720
BROKAW: "Eddy and Robert and
David reunited after 19 years."
507
00:39:33,721 --> 00:39:36,039
"It's beautiful."
508
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,777
DAVID: "Blue-collar family, middle-class
family and a more affluent family.
509
00:39:39,778 --> 00:39:44,371
"Adoptive parents should be told
as much as is reasonable."
510
00:39:44,372 --> 00:39:46,383
DAVID: "Something was just not right."
511
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:52,681
ALICE: "They were breaking open a bottle of
champagne as if they had dodged a bullet."
512
00:39:52,682 --> 00:39:56,493
DAVID: "All of us were adopted
from Louise Wise."
513
00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:58,070
REPORTER: "Louise Wise."
514
00:39:58,071 --> 00:40:03,516
And these babies had all come
from Louise Wise Services
515
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:19,333
BOBBY: Lawrence Wright called me and
he told me all about the experiment.
516
00:40:19,334 --> 00:40:23,078
And I said, "This is like Nazi shit".
517
00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:35,065
It was kind of like reality
hitting like a tidal wave.
518
00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:39,811
We were a science experiment.
519
00:40:39,812 --> 00:40:47,110
These people split us up and
studied us like lab rats.
520
00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:53,875
We didn't recognise this stuff until it was
put in our face, until it was in newsprint.
521
00:40:56,537 --> 00:41:00,874
But there were clues in the past.
522
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:06,087
I remember from a very young age...
523
00:41:07,173 --> 00:41:10,526
people would come to the house...
524
00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:15,480
usually a young man and a young woman.
525
00:41:21,145 --> 00:41:23,700
And they had me taking tests.
526
00:41:23,701 --> 00:41:30,545
They did IQ tests, personality inventory tests,
they did eye hand co-ordination tests.
527
00:41:30,546 --> 00:41:36,118
I do remember people coming to
the house, having tests done,
528
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:43,417
square pegs and round holes, and
Rorschach ink block tests.
529
00:41:43,418 --> 00:41:47,537
"What does this mean to
you?" that kind of stuff.
530
00:41:49,474 --> 00:41:51,967
BRENDA: Eddy told me that
when he was younger,
531
00:41:51,968 --> 00:41:57,305
he remembers people watching
him... and taking notes,
532
00:41:57,306 --> 00:42:02,769
and they would ask him questions and he
would get frustrated with the questions,
533
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:06,338
and he remembers they were videotaping him.
534
00:42:06,339 --> 00:42:09,826
I remember the filming more than anything else.
535
00:42:12,156 --> 00:42:19,369
I remember having super 8 mm films taken of
me when I was on the swing set, or on the slide.
536
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:23,106
Every single time they came they filmed.
537
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,878
Riding my bike, throwing a ball, and they
wanted to see how many times I could,
538
00:42:27,879 --> 00:42:32,874
you know, go on my pogo stick, roller-skating,
throwing a Frisbee, shooting a bow and arrow,
539
00:42:32,875 --> 00:42:36,494
you know, they had my attention.
I was performing.
540
00:42:36,929 --> 00:42:41,641
The stuff they did would be more
complex as I got older.
541
00:42:41,642 --> 00:42:46,813
I felt weird about it, I didn'treally understand
why they needed to come so often,
542
00:42:46,814 --> 00:42:49,357
why were they asking me all these questions.
543
00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:53,278
Somewhere around age of nine or ten I started
becoming less comfortable with it,
544
00:42:53,279 --> 00:42:56,815
and it was kinda like, "Mum,
do I still have to do this?
545
00:42:57,450 --> 00:43:00,436
"Do I still have to do this?"
546
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:03,689
When our parents adopted us
547
00:43:03,690 --> 00:43:08,520
they were each told that we were being
followed as part of a normal study
548
00:43:08,521 --> 00:43:11,946
of the development of adopted children.
549
00:43:11,947 --> 00:43:17,293
They had no idea that we'd been separated.
550
00:43:18,094 --> 00:43:22,682
ALICE: The agency said the children
born in this period of time
551
00:43:22,683 --> 00:43:29,020
were all going to be in... a normal study
of adopted children... and... uh...
552
00:43:29,021 --> 00:43:34,494
as far as we knew, that was it.
553
00:43:34,495 --> 00:43:39,680
That this was a new thing they were going
to follow up with all the children
554
00:43:39,681 --> 00:43:43,712
and at the time we accepted it.
555
00:43:44,247 --> 00:43:50,458
DAVID: You're talking about a group
of people that went and held a baby
556
00:43:50,459 --> 00:43:55,006
and did psychological testing
on a six-month-old baby,
557
00:43:55,007 --> 00:43:59,594
and then went to another
house to see his brother...
558
00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:03,014
and then went to another
house to see his brother,
559
00:44:03,015 --> 00:44:08,395
and did this over years and
years and years and years
560
00:44:08,396 --> 00:44:10,230
with full knowledge
561
00:44:10,231 --> 00:44:16,678
that we were within a 100-mile radius,
and not knowing each other.
562
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:20,490
It's just... it's unconscionable.
563
00:44:20,491 --> 00:44:29,242
Who would think that anybody would be... evil
enough to come up with something like this?
564
00:44:36,591 --> 00:44:38,675
WRIGHT: In the process of my research,
565
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:47,434
I learned is that the person really in charge
of the study was... Dr. Peter Neubauer,
566
00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:53,815
very distinguished psychiatrist in New
York, director of the Freud archives.
567
00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:58,019
He was an Austrian refugee from the Holocaust
568
00:44:58,020 --> 00:45:01,380
and he set up shop in New York
and became, you know,
569
00:45:01,381 --> 00:45:06,036
one of the great men of psychiatry in America.
570
00:45:06,037 --> 00:45:12,667
What I learned is that people at the Louise Wise
agency, were separating identical siblings
571
00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:18,023
and then a team of scientists led
by Neubauer would follow them.
572
00:45:18,524 --> 00:45:22,061
But it wasn't just the triplets.
573
00:45:23,012 --> 00:45:25,730
There were others.
574
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:32,058
After my article came out another
twin set discovered themselves.
575
00:45:32,059 --> 00:45:34,831
"And here they are now. I appreciate
you coming on the show today."
576
00:45:34,832 --> 00:45:37,609
- "Our pleasure."
- "Paula and Elyse."
577
00:45:40,446 --> 00:45:45,033
"This amazing story is incredible.
Is that the way to... to tell it?"
578
00:45:45,034 --> 00:45:47,602
"It's funny. I mean, we say
if it hadn't happened to us
579
00:45:47,603 --> 00:45:50,839
- "we wouldn't believe it."
- "This is a Disney movie."
580
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,876
- "It's a little darker than a Disney movie.
- "I was at home in my apartment in Brooklyn
581
00:45:54,877 --> 00:45:56,544
"with my two-year-old daughter,
582
00:45:56,545 --> 00:46:01,099
"and the phone rings and I answer the phone
and it was the adoption agency.
583
00:46:01,100 --> 00:46:03,301
"We've got some news for you,
you've got a twin sister.
584
00:46:03,302 --> 00:46:04,619
"And she's looking for you."
585
00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:08,974
"You were both editors of your high school
paper, you both went to film school."
586
00:46:08,975 --> 00:46:10,600
"Well, it's funny because I don't
know if you noticed..."
587
00:46:10,601 --> 00:46:13,953
- "Our mannerisms are inherited."
- Yes.
588
00:46:13,954 --> 00:46:18,026
"I contacted the adoption agency and I asked
them, 'Well, why we were separated?'
589
00:46:18,027 --> 00:46:19,567
- "And they said,
- "That's the million-dollar question
590
00:46:19,568 --> 00:46:20,986
- "of this story."
- "For a twin study."
591
00:46:20,987 --> 00:46:25,323
"We felt that our lives had been orchestrated
by these scientific, um... researchers
592
00:46:25,324 --> 00:46:31,037
"who put their scientific needs, research
needs or desires, their career interests
593
00:46:31,038 --> 00:46:33,290
"before the needs of us, and the interests of us
594
00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:37,302
"and other twins and triplets
who were separated."
595
00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:42,882
WRIGHT: Nobody is sure of how many identical
twins were involved in this study.
596
00:46:42,883 --> 00:46:48,180
I was told six to eight, but
we don't really know.
597
00:46:51,517 --> 00:46:55,186
When you have a study like this,
normally you produce the results
598
00:46:55,187 --> 00:47:00,150
and you show how large the sample
is and all this sort of thing.
599
00:47:00,151 --> 00:47:03,737
But this study was never published.
600
00:47:03,738 --> 00:47:07,908
Which makes it all the more intriguing.
601
00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:14,122
DAVID: We did have an attorney try to
get us some of the study records.
602
00:47:14,123 --> 00:47:17,500
We received a small amount of information.
603
00:47:17,501 --> 00:47:20,837
It was very dry, technical data,
604
00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:25,801
that didn't really shed any light on the
reasons for the study. It was garbage.
605
00:47:26,635 --> 00:47:28,511
I don't know what the results were,
606
00:47:28,512 --> 00:47:32,732
or if there ever were results
because I never saw them.
607
00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:38,229
WRIGHT: They're trying to conceal what they
did from the people they did it to.
608
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:40,023
Why?
609
00:47:40,024 --> 00:47:42,650
ALINE: I mean, what was the purpose of it?
610
00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:46,663
The study was never published. Why?
611
00:48:07,843 --> 00:48:10,937
My name is Natasha Josefowitz...
612
00:48:11,597 --> 00:48:16,734
and I was Peter Neubauer's research assistant.
613
00:48:22,441 --> 00:48:27,237
So, come on in. Would you like a cup of coffee?
614
00:48:28,364 --> 00:48:31,366
Here are some of my buddies.
615
00:48:31,367 --> 00:48:34,869
Michelle Obama and I. She is very tall.
616
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:38,748
I'm like a little shrimp next to her,
I come up to her right here.
617
00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:42,877
This is Obama three years ago, and
here he is holding my latest book.
618
00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,255
I have to tell you. I said, "Barack, I love you."
619
00:48:45,256 --> 00:48:48,591
He said, "I love you too", and he
gave me a kiss on this cheek.
620
00:48:48,592 --> 00:48:53,138
Yeah. This is Robert Redford and Al Gore,
621
00:48:53,139 --> 00:48:59,269
and this is Errol Flynn and me when
I was 18. I thought he was a hoot.
622
00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:02,022
Picasso's.
623
00:49:03,149 --> 00:49:07,110
When are we going to talk about the twin study?
624
00:49:10,197 --> 00:49:14,033
You need to know I am not part of the team,
625
00:49:14,034 --> 00:49:18,588
I am a peripheral person. I just do the hearsay.
626
00:49:20,791 --> 00:49:28,131
The first time I heard about the twin study,
it was still just a dream in Peter's head.
627
00:49:29,592 --> 00:49:36,814
- INTERVIEWER: What was he like?
- Hmm... sexy, nice looking, interesting.
628
00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:40,393
His background was very Freudian.
629
00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:45,774
Anna Freud, Freud's daughter, would
often come and visit with him.
630
00:49:46,525 --> 00:49:53,156
He was very focused on wanting to make
a difference in children's lives.
631
00:49:54,909 --> 00:49:59,746
Peter started thinking, wouldn't it be
interesting to have a study of mothers
632
00:49:59,747 --> 00:50:04,842
who wanted to give up their children,
who happen to be identical twins
633
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:09,506
and then could be separated at birth?
634
00:50:09,507 --> 00:50:13,760
If we could put them in two totally
different environments,
635
00:50:13,761 --> 00:50:20,433
we would put to rest the dilemma,
nature or nurture, forever.
636
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,730
Now you may think, "Oh, this is terrible,
you know, how could you do this?"
637
00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:31,035
You have to put yourself back
in the late 50s and 60s.
638
00:50:31,837 --> 00:50:36,449
This was not something that seemed to be bad.
639
00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:40,053
Nobody said, "Huh, to take children
apart, how terrible."
640
00:50:40,054 --> 00:50:44,123
That was not at all in anyone's thoughts.
641
00:50:44,124 --> 00:50:48,545
This was a very exciting time.
642
00:50:48,546 --> 00:50:53,299
Psychology was just beginning to be the big
deal that everybody was talking about.
643
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:57,604
This was all in terms of research. An opportunity.
644
00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:03,401
WRIGHT: One of the great questions
that science has ever asked
645
00:51:03,402 --> 00:51:05,904
is "How do we become the people we are,
646
00:51:05,905 --> 00:51:09,148
"how much of nature versus
how much of nurture
647
00:51:09,149 --> 00:51:12,785
"shapes us into the people that we become?"
648
00:51:14,488 --> 00:51:17,323
JOSEFOWITZ: I did not go and do the research.
649
00:51:17,324 --> 00:51:21,360
But I would hear about it because
I was in the office.
650
00:51:22,096 --> 00:51:26,249
What they found out, was incredible.
651
00:51:27,543 --> 00:51:32,505
"Our lives are parallel to a phenomenal
degree. It's... it's ridiculous."
652
00:51:32,506 --> 00:51:34,381
"We're all the same, as soon as we started
653
00:51:34,382 --> 00:51:36,583
- "discussing our personalities."
- "Personalities are the same,
654
00:51:36,584 --> 00:51:38,269
- "our gestures are the same."
- "We always talk at the same time."
655
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:42,181
- "You were raised in different homes?"
- TRIPLETS: "True."
656
00:51:42,182 --> 00:51:47,353
I did not believe that it'd be as
much hereditary as it was,
657
00:51:47,354 --> 00:51:51,207
- that was more than any of us thought.
- "I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it."
658
00:51:51,208 --> 00:51:52,117
EDDY: "We all like Chinese food."
659
00:51:52,118 --> 00:51:54,669
- "You were all wrestlers at one time?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
660
00:51:54,670 --> 00:51:56,512
- "You all smoke cigarettes?"
- "Yes."
661
00:51:56,513 --> 00:51:58,114
"Do you all smoke the same brand?"
662
00:51:58,115 --> 00:51:58,813
TRIPLETS: "Yes."
663
00:51:58,814 --> 00:52:01,534
- "Do you like the same colours?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
664
00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:03,328
"How's their taste in women, is it similar?"
665
00:52:03,329 --> 00:52:06,206
TRIPLETS: "Yes. Definitely."
666
00:52:07,002 --> 00:52:12,011
We are moved to behaviours that we
are totally unconscious about.
667
00:52:15,233 --> 00:52:19,886
"You were both editors of your high school
paper, you both went to film school."
668
00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:24,140
- "I don't know if you noticed..."
- "Our mannerisms are inherited."
669
00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:32,231
It's disturbing, we don't like that. People don't
like to hear, they say, "I have free will".
670
00:52:33,651 --> 00:52:38,404
We would prefer that we have
some influence over our lives.
671
00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:42,573
Wouldn't you rather know that? That
you have some control over this
672
00:52:42,574 --> 00:52:46,629
and so finding out, never mind,
doesn't matter what you do.
673
00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:52,335
So, I think it's upsetting to people
674
00:52:52,336 --> 00:52:55,713
to see how little influence they have,
how little control they have.
675
00:52:55,714 --> 00:52:59,551
We don't like that, we fight that.
676
00:53:06,308 --> 00:53:11,062
WRIGHT: If the conclusions of
the study were so shocking
677
00:53:11,063 --> 00:53:13,733
and so earth-shaking,
678
00:53:13,734 --> 00:53:17,118
why haven't you published your study?
679
00:53:19,113 --> 00:53:22,782
There is a lot that we don't know.
680
00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:26,719
We have anecdotes that are very provocative,
681
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:30,306
but we don't know, we don't have the data.
682
00:53:31,090 --> 00:53:35,169
JOSEFOWITZ: I don't know what happened to the study.
683
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:43,853
I moved to Switzerland in 1965 and, uh...
lost touch with what was going on.
684
00:53:44,847 --> 00:53:48,141
All that research should be seen.
685
00:53:48,142 --> 00:53:51,118
This study was the first, and it's also the last,
686
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:54,355
it will never be done again,
it will never be replicated.
687
00:53:54,356 --> 00:53:57,875
It's monumental, it's a monumental study.
688
00:54:00,112 --> 00:54:04,157
In terms of the motivation that they
used to justify what they did,
689
00:54:04,158 --> 00:54:09,553
I don't even care because, I... I... I...
It's not justifiable what they did.
690
00:54:11,932 --> 00:54:15,084
HEDY: You know what?
691
00:54:15,085 --> 00:54:20,100
Coming from the Holocaust... our family...
692
00:54:21,738 --> 00:54:28,014
has a knowledge that when
you play with humans...
693
00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:34,646
you do something very wrong.
694
00:54:35,606 --> 00:54:41,068
And I really believe that because
of this research,
695
00:54:41,069 --> 00:54:46,924
these three boys did not have happy endings.
696
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,793
"What were some of the similarities you found
that you had as you were all growing up
697
00:54:56,794 --> 00:55:00,586
"in your own respective households?"
698
00:55:00,587 --> 00:55:02,715
"We all smoked the same
cigarettes when we met,
699
00:55:02,716 --> 00:55:07,054
"we all wrestled in high school and junior
high, we all loved the same food, uh...
700
00:55:07,055 --> 00:55:08,429
"our taste in women was similar."
701
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:12,976
"What are some of the stranger things
you found out you had in common?
702
00:55:13,894 --> 00:55:17,463
- "Any other more surprising discoveries?"
- "Well, sometimes when you think you're
703
00:55:17,464 --> 00:55:19,248
"having a unique thought or idea
704
00:55:19,249 --> 00:55:23,194
"and you go to share it with someone and
they say, "Your brother just told me".
705
00:55:23,195 --> 00:55:24,403
- "It's a little annoying."
- DAVID: "It's funny."
706
00:55:24,404 --> 00:55:27,056
"It's a little annoying, it's unnerving."
707
00:55:27,057 --> 00:55:31,994
DAVID: Being in business with my brothers
damaged our relationship.
708
00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:35,924
There were conflicting work ethics,
709
00:55:36,525 --> 00:55:41,462
and my father had passed away.
710
00:55:43,056 --> 00:55:50,263
He really anchored us together as a group
and kept the peace so to speak.
711
00:55:50,264 --> 00:55:53,212
They started to argue like kids
would argue, you know.
712
00:55:53,213 --> 00:55:59,664
And they didn't have that opportunity, that gift
of being able to be brothers for 18 years.
713
00:55:59,665 --> 00:56:04,735
When you are living in a family of children
714
00:56:04,736 --> 00:56:08,362
you learn how to adjust to each other.
715
00:56:08,363 --> 00:56:12,994
If I don't like the way you
do this, I can get angry,
716
00:56:12,995 --> 00:56:16,080
or I can learn to compromise.
717
00:56:16,081 --> 00:56:21,043
But they met as adults.
718
00:56:21,044 --> 00:56:25,047
And had never learned how
to live with each other.
719
00:56:25,048 --> 00:56:28,134
As things went on, things got more complicated,
720
00:56:28,135 --> 00:56:31,262
and as things got more complicated,
721
00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:35,274
what ended up happening was I left.
722
00:56:37,102 --> 00:56:39,729
DAVID: When Bobby left the business
723
00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:43,941
Eddy and I felt that we were being betrayed.
724
00:56:43,942 --> 00:56:47,818
Bobby felt that he was being pushed out.
725
00:56:47,819 --> 00:56:55,378
Either way, it did major, major
damage to the relationship.
726
00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:04,128
ALAN: I think that took an extreme toll on Eddy
more so than I think David and Bobby.
727
00:57:04,129 --> 00:57:09,335
Eddy was always the one who just wanted
to have everybody be at peace together,
728
00:57:09,336 --> 00:57:11,819
and Eddy was... was very upset about it.
729
00:57:11,820 --> 00:57:15,572
He was kind of crushed about
it. It was eating at him.
730
00:57:16,808 --> 00:57:20,227
BRENDA: He dearly loved them, and he
wanted his brothers to be together.
731
00:57:20,228 --> 00:57:24,657
He was just not really sure
how to deal with it all.
732
00:57:24,658 --> 00:57:32,990
You're just seeing a lot more, uh... kind of up
and down... behaviours, erratic behaviours.
733
00:57:33,692 --> 00:57:37,012
- MRS. SHANLEY: "Eddy's growing a beard."
- "Fur face, that's me."
734
00:57:37,013 --> 00:57:41,415
- BRENDA: "Jeez, wake the child."
- MRS. SHANLEY: "Jamie, your daddy is fuzzy."
735
00:57:41,416 --> 00:57:45,621
You're just seeing a lot more
unnatural highs and lows.
736
00:57:45,622 --> 00:57:52,134
He would call people and... at
bizarre hours of the evening,
737
00:57:52,135 --> 00:58:00,267
and then they would say, "I haven't seen
or heard from Eddy in ten years.
738
00:58:00,268 --> 00:58:04,522
"Why is he picking up the telephone and calling
me at two o'clock in the morning?"
739
00:58:04,523 --> 00:58:07,541
You know, those are... those are signs.
740
00:58:07,542 --> 00:58:12,505
This was just... this was more than just
somebody who needed counselling.
741
00:58:12,506 --> 00:58:16,492
This was, like, really something
very, very serious.
742
00:58:18,161 --> 00:58:21,372
DAVID: He could be unbelievably charming.
743
00:58:21,373 --> 00:58:23,040
"Hello!"
744
00:58:23,041 --> 00:58:30,573
But the downswing was a lot of anger. Uh...
there was just deep, deep darkness.
745
00:58:31,308 --> 00:58:36,137
BRENDA: Manic depression I think
was what they eventually said.
746
00:58:36,138 --> 00:58:40,016
It made sense in hindsight.
747
00:58:46,982 --> 00:58:50,317
I didn't walk down the aisle thinking, you know,
748
00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:55,057
"I have a man who is suffering
from manic depression".
749
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,329
People will say, "How could
you not know?", but...
750
00:59:02,330 --> 00:59:08,511
he was so unique and so wonderful and special,
you just... that was Eddy, you know.
751
00:59:13,608 --> 00:59:19,738
I was advised that he needed
to be in a... a facility.
752
00:59:24,144 --> 00:59:29,323
I mean, I felt bad that I put him through
this trauma of going into a psych ward
753
00:59:29,324 --> 00:59:31,817
because I had been in a psych
ward and I know how hard it is.
754
00:59:31,818 --> 00:59:36,872
When I was a kid, I spent my
16th birthday in a psych ward.
755
00:59:37,324 --> 00:59:40,259
We all were really disturbed kids.
756
00:59:40,260 --> 00:59:44,596
We were all under psychiatric
care when we were teenagers.
757
00:59:47,209 --> 00:59:52,505
DAVID: We all had... very challenging
758
00:59:52,506 --> 00:59:55,762
and dysfunctional teenage years.
759
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,140
Could we ask about personal.
760
01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:06,694
One of you were involved
in a murder, is that right?
761
01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:10,347
- Ah, it's up to you guys.
- No. No.
762
01:00:10,348 --> 01:00:11,565
- People Magazine as...
- One was...
763
01:00:11,566 --> 01:00:15,903
one was accused of being involved in a murder.
764
01:00:15,904 --> 01:00:20,841
And it was me, who never met
this person who was killed,
765
01:00:20,842 --> 01:00:23,786
never was present or anything like that.
766
01:00:23,787 --> 01:00:25,496
It was peer pressure.
767
01:00:25,497 --> 01:00:30,126
Friends pressuring me into covering for them,
telling a story for them to the police
768
01:00:30,127 --> 01:00:33,587
and that pulled me right into it. I've
never hurt anyone in my life.
769
01:00:33,588 --> 01:00:36,090
- I've never...
- We know it, we can feel it.
770
01:00:36,091 --> 01:00:38,342
We can feel it.
771
01:00:42,722 --> 01:00:48,769
A lot of people in this study had
dysfunctional childhoods
772
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:54,400
and some mental problems and
it raises questions, you know.
773
01:00:54,401 --> 01:00:57,570
If... if you are a person who
has devoted your life,
774
01:00:57,571 --> 01:01:00,990
like Dr Neubauer has to the
study of mental illness,
775
01:01:00,991 --> 01:01:06,445
then, um... is that a factor
that you are researching?
776
01:01:07,622 --> 01:01:11,709
"The story is incredible. This is a Disney movie."
777
01:01:11,710 --> 01:01:15,262
"It's a little darker than a Disney movie."
778
01:01:16,673 --> 01:01:20,968
When we first met we realised
we had all these similarities,
779
01:01:20,969 --> 01:01:23,387
we had similar mannerisms,
780
01:01:23,388 --> 01:01:26,607
uh... we both had studied film.
781
01:01:27,225 --> 01:01:29,560
And then we also found out
782
01:01:29,561 --> 01:01:33,330
we both had suffered from depression.
783
01:01:34,733 --> 01:01:39,653
So, this is the letter that I received
from Louise Wise Services.
784
01:01:39,654 --> 01:01:47,369
"You were born at 12.51 pm on October 9 1968
to a 29-year-old Jewish single woman.
785
01:01:47,370 --> 01:01:52,875
"She was very intelligent with a high IQ. She
entered college on a merit scholarship
786
01:01:52,876 --> 01:01:56,385
"but emotional problems interrupted
her attendance.
787
01:01:56,386 --> 01:02:01,508
"She had a history of voluntary hospitalisations
for emotional problems.
788
01:02:01,509 --> 01:02:03,344
"Although I have not been able to locate
789
01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:07,513
"the original medical reports,
secondary sources noted
790
01:02:07,514 --> 01:02:11,418
"that your mother's diagnosis
was schizophrenia."
791
01:02:11,419 --> 01:02:18,401
It was really disturbing to read that my birth
mother had been in and out of institutions.
792
01:02:18,985 --> 01:02:25,074
I started finding out more about the
other twins and triplets in the study,
793
01:02:25,075 --> 01:02:30,371
and it turns out that not only had many of them
struggled with mental health problems,
794
01:02:30,372 --> 01:02:34,291
but that their birth parents
had mental health issues.
795
01:02:34,292 --> 01:02:38,345
And their adoptive families had never been told.
796
01:02:38,855 --> 01:02:45,094
INTERVIEWER: How possible is it that your
mother had mental health issues?
797
01:02:45,095 --> 01:02:47,343
Um...
798
01:02:49,517 --> 01:02:55,562
I don't think they were severe.
I... I think that she was, ah...
799
01:02:55,563 --> 01:03:02,453
She may have had some minor,
minor issues... um...
800
01:03:05,782 --> 01:03:10,210
She may have had some, a little
bit more than minor issues.
801
01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:17,042
WRIGHT: Were the scientists
purposefully choosing children
802
01:03:17,043 --> 01:03:21,505
whose biological parents had a mental illness,
803
01:03:22,574 --> 01:03:31,281
and placing them into different homes to
see, is...is mental illness hereditable.
804
01:03:36,730 --> 01:03:40,482
DAVID: Eddy was in the hospital
for I think it was three weeks.
805
01:03:40,483 --> 01:03:44,837
And then he came back to
work at the restaurant.
806
01:03:47,449 --> 01:03:53,620
I wasn't there. David was
with him, all the time.
807
01:03:53,621 --> 01:03:58,042
I think maybe he can give
you better detail about it.
808
01:04:00,628 --> 01:04:02,663
I was running the kitchen.
809
01:04:02,664 --> 01:04:06,467
Eddy wasn't in. I was running the kitchen,
he was running the front of the house.
810
01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:08,302
That's the way it worked.
811
01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:13,181
And I didn't know where he was,
and he lived across the street.
812
01:04:14,976 --> 01:04:16,935
JANET: So, David called me from the restaurant
813
01:04:16,936 --> 01:04:24,777
and he asked me to look out the window
to see if Eddy's car was in the driveway,
814
01:04:24,778 --> 01:04:28,447
because if it were in the driveway,
we knew that he was home.
815
01:04:28,448 --> 01:04:35,932
So, the car was in the driveway,
and I said to David, um...
816
01:04:37,123 --> 01:04:45,848
"Do you want me to go over there?"
And David said, "Yes".
817
01:04:47,801 --> 01:04:52,237
And she called me back a few minutes later
and her voice was trembling and shaking.
818
01:04:52,238 --> 01:04:54,556
She said, "You've gotta come home".
819
01:04:54,557 --> 01:04:59,912
And I said, "W... why?" And she said, "Please,
you've just gotta come home".
820
01:04:59,913 --> 01:05:01,864
Um...
821
01:05:04,851 --> 01:05:06,809
And I, uh...
822
01:05:06,810 --> 01:05:12,382
I pulled up we lived across the street. I pulled
up, kind of, just... cop cars were all there
823
01:05:12,383 --> 01:05:15,202
and I, just kind of, pulled up on... you know,
824
01:05:15,203 --> 01:05:19,663
blocking half the street, left the door open
and started running into the house
825
01:05:19,664 --> 01:05:23,585
and the cops grabbed me and
they wouldn't let me come in.
826
01:05:23,586 --> 01:05:25,546
They said, "You don't... you
don't want to see this.
827
01:05:25,547 --> 01:05:28,273
"You can't see this, you don't want to see this.
828
01:05:28,274 --> 01:05:34,130
"You... you don't want to see this". And
that's when I knew he was gone.
829
01:05:37,142 --> 01:05:42,037
I told Bobby, "I need to talk to you".
830
01:05:43,231 --> 01:05:46,984
And it's as if he, he kind of knew.
831
01:05:46,985 --> 01:05:49,030
He kind of knew,
832
01:05:49,031 --> 01:05:52,481
before the words came out of my mouth.
833
01:05:55,368 --> 01:05:58,604
Eddy committed suicide.
834
01:05:59,414 --> 01:06:02,650
Eddy shot himself.
835
01:06:03,451 --> 01:06:06,553
He took his own life.
836
01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:22,862
I don't remember who told us.
I just remember darkness.
837
01:06:27,775 --> 01:06:34,406
DAVID: Buried him on Father's
Day, I gave the eulogy
838
01:06:34,407 --> 01:06:42,956
and I don't remember everything I said, but
I do remember saying that my brother Eddy
839
01:06:42,957 --> 01:06:46,610
could light up a room with his smile.
840
01:06:58,723 --> 01:07:04,661
Why Eddy, why Eddy? Why not me? I've
asked myself that a hundred times.
841
01:07:04,662 --> 01:07:08,023
I'd rather it was me than Eddy.
842
01:07:08,024 --> 01:07:12,027
I... I don't know why Eddy and why not me.
843
01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:15,597
Maybe just because...
844
01:07:17,158 --> 01:07:23,998
I don't know, I just don't know.
I... I... I can't answer this.
845
01:07:30,688 --> 01:07:34,925
- INTERVIEWER: Thank you, Bobby.
- Oh, you're welcome.
846
01:08:20,096 --> 01:08:25,684
DAVID: I'd like to know the
truth about the experiment.
847
01:08:25,685 --> 01:08:35,260
My understanding, within this small group
of twins that were separated and studied,
848
01:08:35,261 --> 01:08:39,774
there was more than one suicide.
849
01:08:39,775 --> 01:08:44,052
It's almost impossible just to be a coincidence.
850
01:08:45,905 --> 01:08:51,133
ELLEN: Given Eddy's mental illness,
851
01:08:52,257 --> 01:08:56,006
who knows what's in their DNA.
852
01:08:57,759 --> 01:08:59,766
DAVID: If they have anything conclusive that
853
01:08:59,767 --> 01:09:04,129
is in any way predicting anything in the
future that I need to know about,
854
01:09:04,130 --> 01:09:06,934
I want to know about it.
855
01:09:10,521 --> 01:09:14,641
BOBBY: There is still so much
that we don't know.
856
01:09:15,526 --> 01:09:19,713
I have more questions than I have answers.
857
01:09:28,748 --> 01:09:30,809
WRIGHT: One of the things
about being a journalist
858
01:09:30,810 --> 01:09:33,502
is that you don't know what
you are going to find out.
859
01:09:33,503 --> 01:09:40,743
Sometimes you know what you didn't find out
which is frustrating like with this story.
860
01:09:41,344 --> 01:09:46,473
Well, I didn't get to the bottom of it because
I never got to see the study.
861
01:09:46,474 --> 01:09:50,559
As no one has, you know. That
would be the bottom of it.
862
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,913
But that's why this is so tantalising.
863
01:10:04,492 --> 01:10:09,969
Here's the research that I kept from
when I was writing about twins.
864
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:16,728
It's been a while since I've
had a look at this box.
865
01:10:16,729 --> 01:10:21,892
Oh, this is interesting. Mini cassettes.
866
01:10:23,094 --> 01:10:28,557
Before he passed away I managed
to talk to Dr Neubauer.
867
01:10:28,558 --> 01:10:34,312
He was reluctant, he had not ever
spoken about it to my knowledge.
868
01:10:34,313 --> 01:10:38,049
All right, let's see what he has to say.
869
01:10:39,068 --> 01:10:42,446
"OK, I've got it on now.
870
01:10:42,447 --> 01:10:44,948
"How did this study come about?"
871
01:10:44,949 --> 01:10:49,119
NEUBAUER: "I tell you, I would rather
not want to speak about it."
872
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,955
WRIGHT: "Oh, really? Why?"
873
01:10:51,956 --> 01:10:54,416
NEUBAUER: "Until... until we have published it."
874
01:10:54,417 --> 01:10:57,435
WRIGHT: "Oh, uh-huh. When do you plan to publish it?"
875
01:10:57,436 --> 01:11:03,809
NEUBAUER: "Well, maybe, we would publish
in about a year, a year and a half from now."
876
01:11:03,810 --> 01:11:05,761
WRIGHT: He was certainly illusive,
877
01:11:05,762 --> 01:11:08,054
he was protecting something.
878
01:11:08,055 --> 01:11:11,808
"Well, tell me a little bit about
the scope of the study
879
01:11:11,809 --> 01:11:14,978
"and how many people were involved in it?"
880
01:11:14,979 --> 01:11:18,523
NEUBAUER: "The study was only
based on a small number
881
01:11:18,524 --> 01:11:22,944
"of identical twins separated at birth,
882
01:11:22,945 --> 01:11:27,491
"for many, many reasons. I don't
want to talk about that now.
883
01:11:27,492 --> 01:11:31,328
"We had to stop it because it
became too expensive."
884
01:11:31,329 --> 01:11:34,164
WRIGHT: "Who was your primary support?"
885
01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:37,992
NEUBAUER: "Oh, some private family
foundations, uh... one thing...
886
01:11:37,993 --> 01:11:41,380
"We got some money from Washington."
887
01:11:42,924 --> 01:11:44,758
WRIGHT: "OK."
888
01:11:44,759 --> 01:11:48,512
Private charities and Washington,
what does that mean?
889
01:11:48,513 --> 01:11:51,306
And I don't know where their funding came from.
890
01:11:51,307 --> 01:11:54,534
- WRIGHT: "OK, thanks again for your time."
- NEUBAUER: "Bye."
891
01:11:57,522 --> 01:12:02,359
WRIGHT: I think that there's a great
deal of sensitivity about this story.
892
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:08,115
There's a lot of powerful people who would
like to have this story silenced.
893
01:12:10,409 --> 01:12:13,662
INTERVIEWER: What happened to the
study as far as you're aware?
894
01:12:13,663 --> 01:12:17,040
WRIGHT: Before Neubauer died in 2008,
895
01:12:17,041 --> 01:12:23,138
he left all the research materials
in an archive at Yale University.
896
01:12:23,661 --> 01:12:29,062
Neubauer placed it under seal,
for decades and decades.
897
01:12:29,554 --> 01:12:34,308
So far as I know nobody's
been able to access it.
898
01:12:36,936 --> 01:12:40,672
DAVID: Ah... what do we have here?
899
01:12:44,485 --> 01:12:46,637
Wow.
900
01:12:48,923 --> 01:12:52,968
This is the Yale University website,
and this appears to be the
901
01:12:52,969 --> 01:12:57,122
Guide to Adoption Study Records of
the Child Development Centre.
902
01:12:57,123 --> 01:13:02,002
66 boxes filled with information:
903
01:13:02,003 --> 01:13:06,523
charts, films and tapes and research findings.
904
01:13:06,524 --> 01:13:09,092
Home visits, that's a big one.
905
01:13:09,093 --> 01:13:13,421
It says that the dates of the study
were from 1960 to 1980.
906
01:13:13,422 --> 01:13:21,146
I guess our reunion, kind of closed the
study. "Information about access.
907
01:13:21,147 --> 01:13:26,735
"The records are restricted until 2066."
908
01:13:27,904 --> 01:13:30,489
It's sealed!
909
01:13:32,825 --> 01:13:35,994
So, they did all that they did
910
01:13:35,995 --> 01:13:41,830
to have this whole list tucked away
in a dusty library somewhere,
911
01:13:41,831 --> 01:13:44,686
where nobody can touch it.
912
01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:50,326
"Researchers wishing to use these
records before this date must
913
01:13:50,327 --> 01:13:56,155
"secure written authorisation from the Jewish
Board of Family and Children's Services."
914
01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:03,438
The Jewish Board was the parent organisation
915
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:08,843
of the Child Development Centre
run by Peter Neubauer.
916
01:14:09,595 --> 01:14:13,907
My understanding is that they are a
very, very powerful organisation
917
01:14:13,908 --> 01:14:18,453
with very deep political connections.
918
01:14:21,849 --> 01:14:27,578
RECEPTIONIST: "Thank you for calling the
Jewish Board of Family and Children Services."
919
01:14:27,579 --> 01:14:28,546
MAN: "Hello."
920
01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:31,890
Yes, hi. My name is David Kellman, um...
921
01:14:31,891 --> 01:14:36,571
and apparently, I was a, uh... one
of the subjects of a study, uh...
922
01:14:36,572 --> 01:14:39,641
run by the Child Development
Centre many years ago,
923
01:14:39,642 --> 01:14:42,694
and it's, uh... being kept at Yale University.
924
01:14:42,695 --> 01:14:46,064
- MAN: "Yes?"
- And, um... on their website it says
925
01:14:46,065 --> 01:14:50,969
that I would need permission from the board
in order to gain access to those records,
926
01:14:50,970 --> 01:14:54,708
and somehow the receptionist got me to you.
927
01:14:54,709 --> 01:15:00,476
MAN: "Huh, OK. Um... I'm not aware of any of
that stuff or when the study was, but I can..."
928
01:15:00,477 --> 01:15:04,749
There have been a number of journalists
and as far as I know, some of the twins
929
01:15:04,750 --> 01:15:10,329
that were involved in this study who have
tried to gain access to this material.
930
01:15:19,306 --> 01:15:24,477
So far as I know they haven't been able
to see the results of this study.
931
01:15:24,478 --> 01:15:29,441
Is there a way that I can go directly to someone
that would be able to provide access to me,
932
01:15:29,442 --> 01:15:31,818
as I was one of the subjects within the study?
933
01:15:31,819 --> 01:15:35,613
WRIGHT: If anybody should have
the right to see all this material,
934
01:15:35,614 --> 01:15:38,450
it's the people that were actually
the subject of the study.
935
01:15:38,451 --> 01:15:41,411
They should know what was learned.
936
01:15:41,412 --> 01:15:47,459
MAN: "I mean, I have no idea who would
even be the one to ask right now.
937
01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:48,802
"I would need to look into that."
938
01:15:48,803 --> 01:15:52,547
OK, so you're the first line
of defence, so to speak.
939
01:15:52,548 --> 01:15:54,682
- MAN: "Yeah, I guess, yeah."
- OK.
940
01:15:54,683 --> 01:16:01,806
I will send an email to you. I'll put at the subject
line, is going to be, uh... "Twin Studies".
941
01:16:01,807 --> 01:16:03,993
MAN: "Gotcha."
942
01:16:05,478 --> 01:16:10,482
DAVID: Louise Wise Services is long closed.
943
01:16:10,483 --> 01:16:14,144
Peter Neubauer passed away.
944
01:16:15,821 --> 01:16:24,963
And yet we still don't know exactly what they
were looking for, or what they found out.
945
01:16:44,141 --> 01:16:46,242
PERLMAN: I'm a Clinical Psychologist
946
01:16:46,243 --> 01:16:52,600
and I was a research assistant
on Peter Neubauer's study.
947
01:16:52,601 --> 01:16:57,695
I believe I am the only person
who worked on this study
948
01:16:57,696 --> 01:17:04,460
who is willing to go on record
about what was done.
949
01:17:05,546 --> 01:17:11,459
I was 24. This is essentially my first job.
950
01:17:15,774 --> 01:17:21,302
You know, you had to be careful
to not let on that, uh...
951
01:17:21,303 --> 01:17:25,231
"Gee, you look just like your...
your twin brother."
952
01:17:25,232 --> 01:17:29,387
I would've been fired on the spot, right?
953
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:33,848
It was a little tempting, yeah, there was,
there was a little bit of temptation.
954
01:17:33,849 --> 01:17:37,110
It's like, "Hey, I... I know your twin.
955
01:17:37,111 --> 01:17:43,950
"I... I... I... I saw somebody a week
ago who was exactly like you."
956
01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:55,086
The question whether I feel guilty is interesting
because, uh... I never felt a responsibility.
957
01:17:55,629 --> 01:17:59,340
I came on after this was designed.
958
01:17:59,341 --> 01:18:01,426
However, I was a participant,
959
01:18:01,427 --> 01:18:06,055
so you could say I was ethically
compromised by that.
960
01:18:06,056 --> 01:18:14,288
In retrospect, uh... I... I think it was
undoubtedly ethically wrong.
961
01:18:16,317 --> 01:18:20,328
I got some notes here. OK.
962
01:18:20,362 --> 01:18:22,114
OK.
963
01:18:30,623 --> 01:18:36,794
These are my actual original notes,
copies of psychologicals that I did.
964
01:18:36,795 --> 01:18:40,089
INTERVIEWER: And who in... who
in particular are in these files?
965
01:18:40,090 --> 01:18:43,134
Well, I have the triplets.
966
01:18:45,179 --> 01:18:47,597
Hmm... oh, here we go.
967
01:18:47,598 --> 01:18:51,601
Oh, I'm not going to mention
the name, but, uh...
968
01:18:51,602 --> 01:18:53,519
"He's a loud, energetic boy.
969
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,106
"His need to establish his autonomy
takes to the form of showing off,
970
01:18:57,107 --> 01:19:04,014
"both his intelligence and his strength... and
putting down others including his parents."
971
01:19:05,783 --> 01:19:11,810
Yeah, this one's eager to show off his new
bicycle and all of his sports equipment
972
01:19:11,811 --> 01:19:14,415
while I filmed him.
973
01:19:14,416 --> 01:19:20,333
He was very intense in his play and got quite...
974
01:19:21,197 --> 01:19:22,423
rough.
975
01:19:22,424 --> 01:19:25,368
This kid had some problems.
976
01:19:26,787 --> 01:19:29,915
Hyper aggressiveness.
977
01:19:31,225 --> 01:19:34,493
OK, so apparently, these parents are
not cognisant of his problems,
978
01:19:34,494 --> 01:19:36,354
nor are they able to help him
979
01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:41,526
understand his weaknesses and establish
more appropriate control over his actions.
980
01:19:41,527 --> 01:19:45,863
So, I didn't think the parents
were very tuned in
981
01:19:45,864 --> 01:19:49,884
to the struggles this youngster was having.
982
01:19:52,371 --> 01:19:54,455
What were the findings of the study?
983
01:19:54,456 --> 01:19:59,460
I have no idea because I left
the study after 10 months
984
01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:03,848
and the results were never published.
985
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:11,180
All I have is my little, tiny piece.
It's a mystery, it's a huge loss.
986
01:20:11,181 --> 01:20:18,188
All this important scientific data
is just buried in these archives.
987
01:20:19,148 --> 01:20:21,649
INTERVIEWER: So, some people have speculated
988
01:20:21,650 --> 01:20:26,237
that the purpose of the study, ultimate
purpose, was looking at mental health.
989
01:20:26,238 --> 01:20:36,410
I... there was... there was never a mention of
mental... health of the... biological parents...
990
01:20:37,511 --> 01:20:40,460
when I was in the study.
991
01:20:40,461 --> 01:20:46,322
We were not interested in mental health,
that's not what we were interested in.
992
01:20:46,323 --> 01:20:50,103
We were looking for differences in parenting.
993
01:20:53,699 --> 01:21:00,814
We wanted to understand parenting practices
and how it would affect development.
994
01:21:01,657 --> 01:21:05,693
So, you're saying they were interested
more in the family dynamics?
995
01:21:05,694 --> 01:21:08,863
But they couldn't have known
that. They didn't know
996
01:21:08,864 --> 01:21:13,284
how the families were going to interact
with this newly-adopted child.
997
01:21:13,285 --> 01:21:17,872
The only way they could possibly
know about the family dynamics
998
01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:22,143
was if they already had, uh...
a child placed in that family.
999
01:21:22,144 --> 01:21:24,603
NEWSREADER: "Another astonishing
coincidence in this story
1000
01:21:24,604 --> 01:21:29,008
"is that each of the brothers grew up in
their families with an adopted sister,
1001
01:21:29,009 --> 01:21:32,971
"all the girls now 21 years old."
1002
01:21:35,182 --> 01:21:38,318
PERLMAN: The triplets, they all had an older sibling.
1003
01:21:38,319 --> 01:21:42,271
They were placed in families where
there was an older adopted child
1004
01:21:42,272 --> 01:21:46,600
that had been placed with, by Louise Wise.
1005
01:21:47,069 --> 01:21:50,238
That was part of the design.
1006
01:22:06,964 --> 01:22:12,552
- It's good to see you.
- It's good to see you.
1007
01:22:13,303 --> 01:22:15,455
INTERVIEWER: I'd just like to
show you guys a clip.
1008
01:22:15,456 --> 01:22:20,476
It's Lawrence Perlman, who was
a Researcher on the study.
1009
01:22:25,023 --> 01:22:27,567
PERLMAN: "What were the findings of the study?
1010
01:22:27,568 --> 01:22:32,272
"I have no idea because they
were never published.
1011
01:22:32,273 --> 01:22:35,825
"We were looking for differences in parenting.
1012
01:22:35,826 --> 01:22:42,114
"We wanted to understand parenting practices
and how it would affect development.
1013
01:22:42,115 --> 01:22:46,903
"The triplets were placed in families where
there was an older adopted child
1014
01:22:46,904 --> 01:22:50,807
"that had been placed with, by Louise Wise.
1015
01:22:50,808 --> 01:22:54,338
"That was part of the design."
1016
01:22:55,929 --> 01:22:58,723
INTERVIEWER: How do you feel watching that?
1017
01:22:59,915 --> 01:23:02,669
Like a lab rat.
1018
01:23:04,521 --> 01:23:09,284
It, it only just makes it that much...
it just only... it just makes it...
1019
01:23:09,285 --> 01:23:13,446
- That much worse.
- much more duplicitous.
1020
01:23:13,838 --> 01:23:14,122
Um...
1021
01:23:14,123 --> 01:23:18,906
They're not just studying the kids,
but they're studying the parents.
1022
01:23:18,907 --> 01:23:23,998
So, they did in fact know the
parenting style of each parent.
1023
01:23:23,999 --> 01:23:28,419
So, this was not, you know... obviously
it was far from a random selection.
1024
01:23:28,420 --> 01:23:32,481
They knew exactly who they had chosen
1025
01:23:32,482 --> 01:23:37,962
to place each one of us with when
they called the Gallands,
1026
01:23:37,963 --> 01:23:42,467
and the Kellmans, and the Shafrans.
1027
01:23:50,776 --> 01:23:59,909
In terms of how they parented their children
the three families were quite, quite different.
1028
01:24:00,953 --> 01:24:03,788
David's father stood out.
1029
01:24:03,789 --> 01:24:06,641
There was nobody in the world like his son.
1030
01:24:06,642 --> 01:24:12,505
He was so proud of him. Whatever
he did was wonderful.
1031
01:24:12,506 --> 01:24:18,678
Bobby's father was very busy as a doctor
1032
01:24:18,679 --> 01:24:25,726
and didn't have the time to be with
Bobby that David's father had,
1033
01:24:25,727 --> 01:24:30,548
but was as devoted to him as possible.
1034
01:24:31,275 --> 01:24:35,444
The most traditional was Eddy's father...
1035
01:24:36,196 --> 01:24:40,920
who was rather strict. He was the boss.
1036
01:24:40,921 --> 01:24:44,895
He made the rules and Eddy
was supposed to follow.
1037
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:50,376
HEDY: Eddy's relationship with his father...
1038
01:24:52,562 --> 01:24:56,049
it couldn't have been good.
1039
01:24:58,885 --> 01:25:02,513
And that matters.
1040
01:25:02,514 --> 01:25:05,725
INTERVIEWER: And why do you say
it couldn't have been good?
1041
01:25:05,726 --> 01:25:11,939
Because otherwise, I would have known
him, we would have seen him,
1042
01:25:11,940 --> 01:25:16,369
Eddy would have talked about him.
1043
01:25:27,998 --> 01:25:32,335
This was the last picture we ever had of Edward.
1044
01:25:32,336 --> 01:25:34,503
He was very gregarious.
1045
01:25:34,504 --> 01:25:37,581
He got into all the things young boys do.
1046
01:25:37,582 --> 01:25:43,638
He wrecked a car and a few
things like that, but uh...
1047
01:25:43,639 --> 01:25:48,517
I mean, occasionally I disciplined him.
1048
01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:53,072
BRENDA: Eddy and his dad were
very different as people.
1049
01:25:53,073 --> 01:25:59,036
Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid, you
know, he wasn't into sports.
1050
01:25:59,037 --> 01:26:04,801
Elliott had a very strong militaristic kind
of approach to life, very traditional.
1051
01:26:04,802 --> 01:26:08,746
He was a teacher, he was all about punctuality.
1052
01:26:08,747 --> 01:26:14,001
I was a strict disciplinarian,
1053
01:26:14,002 --> 01:26:22,184
and my children unfortunately had
me as a strict disciplinarian too.
1054
01:26:24,429 --> 01:26:31,477
BRENDA: Eddy said he always sort of
didn't feel like he fit in with his family.
1055
01:26:33,009 --> 01:26:39,569
He always felt like... like he
wasn't in the right place.
1056
01:26:43,123 --> 01:26:48,411
INTERVIEWER: How much did you have
any sense that Edward was unhappy?
1057
01:26:48,412 --> 01:26:52,965
He didn't discuss his problems with me.
1058
01:26:57,462 --> 01:27:00,147
We were a rather quiet family.
1059
01:27:00,148 --> 01:27:06,403
We didn't tell our problems to one another.
1060
01:27:07,180 --> 01:27:12,902
We protected each other. It was a nice family.
1061
01:27:17,262 --> 01:27:21,685
Some people are just not a good fit.
1062
01:27:25,323 --> 01:27:28,576
It wasn't his father's fault.
1063
01:27:28,577 --> 01:27:34,705
Elliot did what he believed
to be best as a parent.
1064
01:27:34,706 --> 01:27:37,918
They were just different people.
1065
01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:43,090
I got the phone call from...
I believe it was Bobby.
1066
01:27:43,091 --> 01:27:50,264
And he told me to sit down
and I said no need to.
1067
01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:53,601
And he told me about it.
1068
01:27:53,602 --> 01:28:02,193
And then standing right there
I went over to my wife
1069
01:28:02,194 --> 01:28:07,114
and told her Edward had committed suicide.
1070
01:28:07,115 --> 01:28:13,170
And we stood there for quite a while, crying.
1071
01:28:16,708 --> 01:28:19,844
And...
1072
01:28:21,321 --> 01:28:24,398
that was it.
1073
01:28:35,268 --> 01:28:40,898
I often wondered whether I didn't
teach him something...
1074
01:28:42,818 --> 01:28:47,288
because of the way he left.
1075
01:28:47,739 --> 01:28:52,451
I don't know. Maybe I didn't
teach him something,
1076
01:28:52,452 --> 01:29:00,509
how to live life or something. That
bothers me occasionally.
1077
01:29:09,886 --> 01:29:14,640
ELLEN: Why did the boys' lives turn
out completely different?
1078
01:29:14,641 --> 01:29:16,141
I don't need to read any books,
1079
01:29:16,142 --> 01:29:19,270
I don't need to read any studies.
1080
01:29:20,038 --> 01:29:24,817
I saw it first hand with those three boys.
1081
01:29:27,362 --> 01:29:30,814
It's all about nurture.
1082
01:29:43,345 --> 01:29:48,808
"These three young men they are
all seated in the same position."
1083
01:29:48,809 --> 01:29:50,593
SCHNEIDER: We found a lot of similarities
1084
01:29:50,594 --> 01:29:53,362
because that's what people were looking for.
1085
01:29:53,363 --> 01:29:56,223
They smoke the same kind of cigarettes.
You say, "Oh my God,
1086
01:29:56,224 --> 01:29:58,851
"they're smoking Marlboros, that's amazing."
1087
01:29:58,852 --> 01:30:01,370
What you're not looking
for are their differences.
1088
01:30:01,371 --> 01:30:03,272
"I can't get over it, I'm telling you.
1089
01:30:03,273 --> 01:30:05,900
- "You all wrestled at one time?"
- TRIPLETS: "Yes."
1090
01:30:05,901 --> 01:30:08,819
We found the ways that we were alike
1091
01:30:08,820 --> 01:30:13,024
and we emphasised them
and we wanted to be alike.
1092
01:30:13,905 --> 01:30:20,389
- We were falling in love with each other.
- BRENDA: I think there were superficialities.
1093
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:24,275
They liked the same things and
they had similar interests,
1094
01:30:24,276 --> 01:30:28,263
but deep down they were different.
1095
01:30:28,882 --> 01:30:35,420
They were not a case study
of biology being destiny.
1096
01:30:38,767 --> 01:30:47,782
WRIGHT: I've come to believe genes and the
environment are close competitors.
1097
01:30:48,777 --> 01:30:55,741
You could say that we drift in the direction
that our genes tell us to go
1098
01:30:55,742 --> 01:31:02,806
but it doesn't mean you are destined
to be one person or another.
1099
01:31:05,961 --> 01:31:10,381
DAVID: I believe that I'm still here today
1100
01:31:10,382 --> 01:31:14,902
because of the foundation that
was given to me by my parents.
1101
01:31:14,903 --> 01:31:19,348
I believe that absolutely made a difference
1102
01:31:19,349 --> 01:31:24,453
in terms of struggling with whatever
demons I struggle with.
1103
01:31:25,563 --> 01:31:31,402
HEDY: I believe nature and
nurture both matter.
1104
01:31:31,403 --> 01:31:40,044
But I think nurture can overcome
nearly everything.
1105
01:32:13,987 --> 01:32:17,740
WRIGHT: Because the study's never been
published we simply don't know definitively
1106
01:32:17,741 --> 01:32:22,077
how many people's lives were
separated in this fashion.
1107
01:32:22,078 --> 01:32:27,208
There may still be twins out there who
still don't know they are twins.
1108
01:32:27,751 --> 01:32:33,989
There are probably at least four individuals
who were subjects of this study
1109
01:32:33,990 --> 01:32:37,926
who don't know that they have a twin.
1110
01:32:37,927 --> 01:32:41,263
If they know that there
are still twins out there
1111
01:32:41,264 --> 01:32:46,843
that... that are missing out on...
on life, it boggles the mind.
1112
01:32:46,844 --> 01:32:48,812
There's two ways of thinking about it.
1113
01:32:48,813 --> 01:32:51,907
These people really should
know that there is a twin,
1114
01:32:51,908 --> 01:32:54,651
or, "Oh my God, these people should not know
1115
01:32:54,652 --> 01:32:59,073
"that they were used this way,
that will make them so upset."
1116
01:32:59,074 --> 01:33:03,243
Maybe this is why the study
cannot be published as yet,
1117
01:33:03,244 --> 01:33:06,663
until they're gone.
1118
01:33:07,499 --> 01:33:09,833
It really opens up the possibility.
1119
01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:17,123
Anybody can just walk around the corner and
discover that you have a twin out there.