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It's been a harrowing week in the news,
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so now it's something
much lighter and more fun.
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It's time for New Zealand's
favorite pop culture reporter,
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David Farrier.
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What do you make of New Zealanders so far?
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Me? Uh, I think that
they're... They've been nice.
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Everyone has been cool so far.
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What's the main thing
you're trying to achieve here?
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Because obviously
you've created a bit of a...
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Survival.
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He's dead.
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- Now we're gonna spin around. - Yeah.
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Whoa! Holy!
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It's so tiring. Whoa!
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And what's your nickname
that you've got now?
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The Donkey Lady.
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Look out! Oh, look, we're going
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- to have a reporter kicked. -
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It's quite a kick.
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I can't say I've ever interviewed anyone
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that looks exactly like you before.
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Really?
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I've made a career out
of looking at the weird
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and bizarre side of life. -
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So when I discovered
a strange video online,
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I knew I'd found my next story.
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It's good. It's good.
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An American company
called Jane O'Brien Media
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was running a monthly event.
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Young athletes from anywhere
on the planet could apply.
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If selected they got free flights to LA,
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Four nights in a really
nice hotel and $1500 cash.
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It was called competitive
endurance tickling.
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You're with the CET,
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a competitive endurance
tickling group we got here.
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And, uh, first of all I'd
like to give a shout to you,
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Jane O'Brien Media, for making this happen.
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- Thanks, Jane. - We all appreciate it.
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Fuck off!
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Guys! Oh, my God!
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Their Facebook page was popular,
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with thousands of likes.
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And with everyone in Adidas gear,
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it seemed to be some
kind of tickling league.
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It was one of the
strangest sports I'd seen.
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No!
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So, of course, I told Jane O'Brien Media
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I'd like to do an interview.
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Instead of getting a yes or no, I got this.
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"To be brutally frank,
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association with a homosexual journalist
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is not something we will embrace.
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We desperately do not want
a homosexual participant base
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applying for this project.
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My concern is that your
journalistic style, fan base,
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and reputation in your own country.
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Regards, Debbie Kuhn, Jane O'Brien Media."
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It was a strange response,
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especially considering
the sport did seem slightly...
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gay.
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And over the coming weeks,
Debbie and Jane kept e-mailing.
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"The competitive reality tickling
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is a passionately
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and exclusively heterosexual
athletic endurance activity.
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We have recently read a googled
article about the knowledge
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of your living with a homosexual partner
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becoming quite a stir in New Zealand."
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"The remainder of the
globe does not in all corners
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share some of the more liberal
acceptance of your lifestyle."
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"To me anything concerning homosexuality
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is at best an objective disorder."
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"Shame on you!" "Little
gay kiwis." "Faggot."
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It was hard to take the insults seriously,
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given what Jane was producing.
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If anything, it made me
more curious than ever.
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Your call has been forwarded
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to the voicemail for Jane O'Brien Media.
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With no one picking up the phone,
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I got my geeky friend
Dylan to do some digging
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into this mysterious company
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and this overly aggressive woman.
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So, I'm going to just
scroll up. So here we go.
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So, it's janeobrienmedia.com.
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It's registered to Nederdietsen.
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He discovered that while Jane O'Brien Media
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seemed to be operated out of America,
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it was owned by a company in
Germany called Nederdietsen,
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which owned nearly 300 domain
names all related to tickling.
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This tickling wormhole was getting deeper,
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so Dylan and I blogged
about what we'd found.
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So, the pay's good.
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What? Okay, hold on. -
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Our story got a lot of attention,
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being picked up on websites like Reddit
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and an American podcast.
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Back up. Back up. - When I say
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competitive tickling, what
do you think I'm talking about?
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I mean, I think you're talking about, uh,
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some sort of organized sport...
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Yeah. - ...of tickling.
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Basically what happened
was this kind of blew up
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on the Internet this week,
because a dude in New Zealand,
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a reporter, like, happened
across this Facebook page.
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But is it just for fun? They just...
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I mean, obviously it's just for fun?
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Is it just for fun?
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It's tickling. -
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Sorry, I don't think that
question's ever been asked
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about tickling before.
It's like a Martian question
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about tickling. "Is it for fun?"
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People were so interested
by what we discovered,
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Dylan and I decided to make a documentary
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about this utterly bizarre subject.
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Two weeks later,
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we heard from Jane
O'Brien's New York attorney,
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Romeo Salta.
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He'd recently made headlines in a case
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involving a gay porn star
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who chopped a man up
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and mailed his body
parts to some politicians.
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Things certainly weren't
getting any less weird.
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His letter told us to stop
what we were doing, or else.
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Soon we were receiving
e-mails from Salta telling us
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that legal action had been filed in the US.
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I had no money to hire
a New Zealand lawyer,
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let alone face the American justice system.
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Then, to top it all off,
Jane O'Brien Media told us
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they were flying three people
across the world from New York
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To New Zealand to see us.
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They're clearly serious about
stopping this documentary.
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Jane wouldn't tell us what
flight they were arriving on,
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but she did tell us the day.
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So from 05:00 am, I waited at arrivals.
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Not sure what to expect,
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I figured I'd disarm the situation
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with a rainbow-colored sign.
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How's it going?
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I thought I'd make up
a good welcoming sign.
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- It's so nice to meet you.
- Good. How are you, sir?
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It's so nice for you to come and see us.
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That's all right. I thought
I'd arrive. How was the flight?
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It was wonderful, really wonderful.
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- Oh, good. - Got some good sleep.
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- Air New Zealand? - Yeah, yeah...
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- Oh, good. - it was gorgeous, yeah.
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- Hey, guys. - Kevin Clarke.
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Kevin, nice to meet you, sir.
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- And I'm Adam -
David. Nice to meet you.
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This is... look at this sign...
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We want to keep this.
Can we have that for later?
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- You can, I gift this to you.
- It's gorgeous.
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As a sign, I thought it was pretty good.
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Thank you so much, it's wonderful.
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Well, look, let's line up
a time to meet this week.
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We just need to rest
today and then tomorrow.
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Actually if you're free we can do tomorrow?
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Tomorrow? - Tomorrow will be fine.
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Tomorrow would be good.
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Okay, tomorrow works well.
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Thank you very much for
coming out, what a surprise.
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It's so nice of you.
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Oh, that's okay. It's the
New Zealand hospitality.
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You can get me there. Are we on camera
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right now?
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Yeah, we're just rolling from
the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
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I'd prefer if you didn't do
that without telling me first.
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Okay. We've got a thing in New Zealand,
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we're okay to film in public spaces.
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So I'm just following the journey.
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Listen, we're not... We're
not going to have good time
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if you do this.
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If you don't tell me
what you're doing first
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- we're going to get along.
- Okay, all right. Well, we're...
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Yeah, I really don't like this either.
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It's not...
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Okay. Well, I mean, we're
shooting a documentary,
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so we'll keep... It's a...
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I understand what you think you're doing...
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Mm. - but I'm not going to allow
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you to do... to treat me without respect.
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Okay.
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And that's what you're doing right now.
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Okay. We're okay to film in
public spaces in New Zealand,
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- so we're doing that here.
- Yeah, I hope you have fun
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doing that.
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All right, we'll see you soon.
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We'll talk later. - Okay, sounds good.
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- Thank's again. - All right, see you soon.
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- Thanks man. - No worries.
- We'll talk soon.
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Hello?
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Hey, Marko. It's Dave Farrier. How are you?
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David, I am good, how are you doing?
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Yeah, good. How are
you settling into Auckland?
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We love it here.
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You know we wanted to just, you know,
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at least for the first meeting,
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just sort of speak without cameras
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and just let you know what we're doing.
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Okay. No, that sounds good to me, I think.
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Just, Dylan and I both talked,
and we just weren't confident,
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or didn't think it was a good idea
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just to go straight to a room.
Maybe it's a cultural thing.
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But a conference room
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um, of your choosing, - Okay.
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Whether it's at the Hilton or
elsewhere, is absolutely fine.
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One of the reasons
that it's hard for us to.
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Go on camera or to take part
in the documentary is that...
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uh, first of all we don't
think it would be very good
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for the company that we work for
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because it seems like the spin...
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we have no control over
what the spin would be.
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And, um...
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And you know... we
have nothing to do with...
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with the legal matters.
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00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:11,499
You know, I would love
to see you guys be able to
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go in a more positive
direction. And I don't think that
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you're going to be able to find
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the answers that you're looking for.
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Yep.
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00:12:21,917 --> 00:12:23,601
And as far as Jane
goes, I've never met Jane.
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You know, whoever is emailing
you, I've never met this person.
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00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:30,625
Just... a piece of advice
though I mean just...
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kind of off the record, between us...
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take the lawsuit seriously,
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because there's a lot of
money and the lawsuits.
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00:12:37,917 --> 00:12:39,459
Yeah, and that's obvious, you know...
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00:12:39,499 --> 00:12:41,541
first class tickets to
New Zealand, you know...
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clearly there's a lot of
money involved in the story.
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I mean... just... you know...
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whatever you plan to do is
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actually going to be worth the trouble
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that this person is probably
going to put you through.
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Can I just ask one quick question of you?
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Yeah, sure.
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I know that Marko and Adam
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00:13:00,041 --> 00:13:00,667
haven't met Jane or Debbie...
have you met Jane or Debbie...
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No.
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00:13:03,208 --> 00:13:04,351
But does it worry you that
you haven't met the person.
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Absolutely not.
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There are people in this world...
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in that world... in the
world of a lot of money.
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That keep a firewall between
themselves and what they do.
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00:13:11,041 --> 00:13:12,041
Sure.
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00:13:13,334 --> 00:13:14,851
We have been attacked for
weeks now by Jane O' Brien.
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I wake up every... I wake up every morning
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00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:19,167
to a message from Jane O' Brien Media
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who you guys work for
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00:13:21,334 --> 00:13:26,417
with a list of various personal
attacks and also legal threats
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That's been happening daily...
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You started this fight, I didn't!
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You were the ones that decided
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this is what you were going to do.
253
00:13:34,417 --> 00:13:35,459
You mocked us.
254
00:13:35,499 --> 00:13:37,000
You've done everything you could
255
00:13:37,041 --> 00:13:39,959
you attacked us in an
airport, you side winded us
256
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,541
so let me make a point here.
257
00:13:41,583 --> 00:13:44,375
If you want to stick your
head in a blast furnace...
258
00:13:44,417 --> 00:13:45,417
do it.
259
00:13:56,083 --> 00:13:58,208
Kevin didn't take to Dylan very well
260
00:13:58,250 --> 00:14:00,208
and wants to meet me alone.
261
00:14:01,250 --> 00:14:04,208
I quickly make this
covert piece of technology.
262
00:14:04,625 --> 00:14:06,959
A camera in a coffee cup.
263
00:14:10,875 --> 00:14:12,959
What's the end game here?
What do you get at the end
264
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,559
or even if you get everything you want?
265
00:14:14,583 --> 00:14:17,667
Mm. Mm. - And what are we risking here?
266
00:14:18,459 --> 00:14:22,625
You know, do we really want
someone coming after you
267
00:14:22,667 --> 00:14:24,208
with all that money?
268
00:14:24,708 --> 00:14:26,393
I've known a lot of rich people in my life.
269
00:14:26,417 --> 00:14:27,617
I've worked for a lot of them.
270
00:14:27,834 --> 00:14:29,875
They don't work by the same set of rules.
271
00:14:29,917 --> 00:14:32,208
They don't dangle them
out of buildings any more,
272
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:33,959
but they don't have to.
273
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,125
And that's the thing. They start suing,
274
00:14:37,167 --> 00:14:40,167
and you're done halfway through
or a quarter of the way through
275
00:14:40,208 --> 00:14:42,625
because it costs so
much to defend yourself.
276
00:14:42,667 --> 00:14:44,334
So unless... Essentially, I mean,
277
00:14:44,375 --> 00:14:47,583
unless we stop the doco,
we're gonna be fucked.
278
00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:49,017
Really. It seems that's
what it comes down to.
279
00:14:49,041 --> 00:14:51,167
I'm not gonna use those words directly,
280
00:14:51,208 --> 00:14:53,667
because that wouldn't be prudent.
281
00:14:53,708 --> 00:14:56,583
But... Let me rephrase.
Unless you stopped...
282
00:14:56,625 --> 00:14:59,667
Unless we can figure out a
way to ameliorate that situation,
283
00:14:59,708 --> 00:15:01,708
we all are.
284
00:15:07,541 --> 00:15:11,000
Facing lawsuits and a
company with deep pockets,
285
00:15:11,041 --> 00:15:13,708
I wondered if we should just walk away.
286
00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:18,417
But Dylan was part of this now
287
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:21,541
and didn't want to give
in to a bunch of bullies.
288
00:15:22,459 --> 00:15:23,855
Dylan wants to pursue this
289
00:15:23,856 --> 00:15:25,250
on his own?
290
00:15:25,292 --> 00:15:29,000
Uh, I gather from what he's saying, yeah.
291
00:15:29,041 --> 00:15:31,917
Okay. Um, if Dylan wants to do that,
292
00:15:31,959 --> 00:15:34,250
Dylan does... Dylan will do that.
293
00:15:34,292 --> 00:15:38,000
If you don't want to do that,
then just walk away from it.
294
00:15:38,583 --> 00:15:40,167
Yeah.
295
00:15:40,208 --> 00:15:43,500
And I will... Dylan will
be dealt with accordingly.
296
00:15:44,083 --> 00:15:46,375
How was school?
297
00:15:48,834 --> 00:15:49,792
- The main thing, David, you know, that I
- wanted to tell you is that
298
00:15:49,834 --> 00:15:51,125
I think that you're brilliant.
299
00:15:51,167 --> 00:15:53,125
And that you have a great career.
300
00:15:53,167 --> 00:15:55,541
So I was really, really happy to find out
301
00:15:55,583 --> 00:15:58,917
that you wanted just to
distance yourself from it.
302
00:15:58,959 --> 00:16:03,834
And I don't understand
why Dylan would not want to.
303
00:16:05,292 --> 00:16:06,935
What I'm worried about
too, I know Kevin says,
304
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:08,541
"Well, if he wants to go ahead with it,
305
00:16:08,583 --> 00:16:09,875
let him go ahead with it."
306
00:16:11,292 --> 00:16:12,125
But he'll become a real
target, and believe me,
307
00:16:12,167 --> 00:16:13,541
it will be really ugly for him.
308
00:16:13,583 --> 00:16:14,810
And I would... I would
hate to see that too,
309
00:16:14,834 --> 00:16:16,250
because I know he has a family
310
00:16:18,041 --> 00:16:20,750
And, you know, he's probably,
uh, a good bloke down deep.
311
00:16:31,792 --> 00:16:34,334
I've never heard
threats like this in my life,
312
00:16:34,375 --> 00:16:37,167
and all of this over some tickling!
313
00:16:37,917 --> 00:16:40,750
Kevin and Marko fly back to America.
314
00:16:41,541 --> 00:16:45,041
And a few days later, Dylan and I follow.
315
00:16:45,959 --> 00:16:48,667
Something about bullies
with way too much money
316
00:16:48,708 --> 00:16:50,375
has convinced me I shouldn't drop it.
317
00:16:52,625 --> 00:16:55,625
- Plus, we think there's a competitive
tickling shoot - happening this week.
318
00:16:57,125 --> 00:17:00,334
We've reached out to nearly
a hundred boys in the videos,
319
00:17:00,375 --> 00:17:03,041
But they all seem too nervous to talk.
320
00:17:08,459 --> 00:17:11,541
Finally TJ agrees to meet us.
321
00:17:14,875 --> 00:17:17,625
We met Kevin Clarke downtown LA somewhere.
322
00:17:17,667 --> 00:17:21,041
I can't remember exactly where
it was at, but it was a studio.
323
00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:24,334
He seemed pretty normal at the time.
324
00:17:25,417 --> 00:17:28,000
My first impression of him,
you know, he was just, like,
325
00:17:28,667 --> 00:17:30,208
kind of... kind of a little weird.
326
00:17:32,375 --> 00:17:33,875
You know, I was young at the time,
327
00:17:33,917 --> 00:17:35,292
didn't think nothing of it,
328
00:17:36,959 --> 00:17:37,875
And I was like, "Cool." You
know, $2000 or whatever,
329
00:17:37,917 --> 00:17:38,997
"Yeah. It's gonna be cool."
330
00:17:42,959 --> 00:17:45,167
It was actually a hard time for my family.
331
00:17:45,208 --> 00:17:48,351
- A family member of mine was going through
cancer, and money - was tight at the household.
332
00:17:48,375 --> 00:17:51,959
- So I was a little bit desperate at the time
as well for money, - working on the side,
333
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,976
And doing what I can. So
when I heard this dollar sign,
334
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,240
I was like, "Yeah," you
know, "I'll definitely do that."
335
00:17:58,208 --> 00:17:59,625
And then I went inside
336
00:17:59,667 --> 00:18:02,125
and noticed that it was all guys in there.
337
00:18:03,417 --> 00:18:06,834
And that's when I was
like, "Oh, dang!" Like...
338
00:18:09,875 --> 00:18:12,000
And I didn't know I was
gonna get tied down.
339
00:18:12,541 --> 00:18:14,834
I had no idea what it'd be for.
340
00:18:14,875 --> 00:18:17,041
Honestly, I was like, "Okay, what?"
341
00:18:18,375 --> 00:18:21,517
- At that point I was like, "All right, you know what?
- It's already going down.
342
00:18:21,541 --> 00:18:22,893
I don't really know what it's for,
343
00:18:22,917 --> 00:18:24,541
but hopefully it never gets out."
344
00:18:44,917 --> 00:18:46,583
No, no, no. Not any fuckin'...
345
00:18:46,625 --> 00:18:50,541
Ah! Fuck! That actually tickles, dude.
346
00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:57,125
Ah! Fuck!
347
00:18:57,167 --> 00:19:00,250
Being violated on so many
different levels right now.
348
00:19:00,292 --> 00:19:03,500
There was other athletes.
There was MMA guys.
349
00:19:03,541 --> 00:19:04,917
There was a bodybuilder,
350
00:19:06,667 --> 00:19:08,017
and then there was a couple
of actors, normal actors.
351
00:19:08,041 --> 00:19:09,667
I've seen some of them on commercials,
352
00:19:09,708 --> 00:19:11,834
TV commercials. Normal guys.
353
00:19:11,875 --> 00:19:14,583
Like, completely normal people.
354
00:19:16,167 --> 00:19:18,667
Get the fuck off my feet!
355
00:19:18,708 --> 00:19:20,167
It was a torture project.
356
00:19:20,208 --> 00:19:22,541
That's what I believe Kevin Clarke told me.
357
00:19:22,583 --> 00:19:26,834
- There was something to do with even a
military tactic, - or something like that.
358
00:19:26,875 --> 00:19:28,708
He was gonna do...
359
00:19:28,750 --> 00:19:31,083
I think he said Jane was doing a project
360
00:19:31,125 --> 00:19:34,334
on using tickling as a military tactic.
361
00:19:34,375 --> 00:19:35,667
And at that point, I...
362
00:19:35,708 --> 00:19:37,310
I knew it was complete bullshit, you know?
363
00:19:37,334 --> 00:19:39,541
I was like, "Okay, the
military is gonna use tickling
364
00:19:39,583 --> 00:19:41,750
as a torture tactic?"
365
00:19:41,792 --> 00:19:44,167
Fuck!
366
00:19:48,375 --> 00:19:50,375
When did the video come back to get you?
367
00:19:51,459 --> 00:19:54,667
About a year, maybe a little more, ago.
368
00:20:04,667 --> 00:20:05,541
I would Google myself once in a while,
369
00:20:05,583 --> 00:20:06,959
to read old articles
370
00:20:08,625 --> 00:20:09,208
or see what teams might
have listed me in an article
371
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:10,250
or try-outs.
372
00:20:14,834 --> 00:20:18,208
And to my surprise, a video was on YouTube.
373
00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:22,334
Hello. I'm TJ, and I'm here
on a tickling competition.
374
00:20:22,375 --> 00:20:25,000
And, uh, first question
is: "Are you ticklish?"
375
00:20:25,041 --> 00:20:27,167
Well, obviously I'm
ticklish if I'm here, so,
376
00:20:27,208 --> 00:20:28,810
that's kind of a silly question. But, uh...
377
00:20:28,834 --> 00:20:31,167
It was just me sitting
in front of the camera
378
00:20:31,208 --> 00:20:34,000
talking about the, uh, tickling process.
379
00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:36,601
Just weird things. And so I
was like, "Okay, it's not that bad."
380
00:20:37,375 --> 00:20:39,583
"When you are asked, 'Are you ticklish?'
381
00:20:39,625 --> 00:20:42,125
How do you normally respond and why?"
382
00:20:42,167 --> 00:20:45,959
Normally, I say, "No, I'm not ticklish."
383
00:20:47,583 --> 00:20:51,208
So I emailed Jane and asked
her to take the video down.
384
00:20:54,917 --> 00:20:57,208
She didn't ever reply.
385
00:20:57,250 --> 00:20:59,834
So I took the matters into my own hands,
386
00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:01,834
and I, uh, told YouTube that
387
00:21:01,875 --> 00:21:04,083
uh, they're illegally using my name.
388
00:21:07,334 --> 00:21:11,292
So YouTube took the video
down. That's when it all started.
389
00:21:15,583 --> 00:21:17,292
"Now, I am laughing."
390
00:21:18,334 --> 00:21:20,834
"I don't think you've grasped the magnitude
391
00:21:20,875 --> 00:21:22,500
of what you have provoked."
392
00:21:22,959 --> 00:21:25,667
"I'm interested to see
how you handle the fallout.
393
00:21:25,708 --> 00:21:30,167
So far, badly." "Regards, Debbie ♪. Kuhn."
394
00:21:30,208 --> 00:21:33,167
That's when this Deborah
person popped into my life.
395
00:21:33,208 --> 00:21:36,541
I mean, just all hell broke loose.
396
00:21:39,292 --> 00:21:43,834
Every kind of video search
you can find, it was up there.
397
00:21:45,334 --> 00:21:47,208
And then it pops up in my emails,
398
00:21:47,250 --> 00:21:49,375
and then it pops up more on YouTube,
399
00:21:49,834 --> 00:21:51,226
And it just starts appearing everywhere.
400
00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:52,792
This video... Just, all of them.
401
00:21:52,834 --> 00:21:54,375
All of them start blowing up.
402
00:22:03,792 --> 00:22:05,351
And there was threats. It said, "Watch out!
403
00:22:05,375 --> 00:22:06,625
Your family better watch out
404
00:22:06,875 --> 00:22:08,517
because we're gonna put
your last name to shame.
405
00:22:08,541 --> 00:22:11,208
Any time you search your
last name, it's gonna pop up."
406
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:13,000
Like, direct threats.
407
00:22:15,875 --> 00:22:17,167
They ended up making a website,
408
00:22:17,208 --> 00:22:18,792
putting my personal information:
409
00:22:18,834 --> 00:22:20,708
my name, my address,
410
00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:23,708
my personal phone number, my email address,
411
00:22:24,541 --> 00:22:26,667
all with just dumb lies.
412
00:22:29,375 --> 00:22:32,417
Then Debbie Kuhn starts
going off on me left and right,
413
00:22:32,459 --> 00:22:34,917
sending emails to the
high school that I coach at.
414
00:22:35,375 --> 00:22:38,459
"I have additional
information as a past employer.
415
00:22:38,499 --> 00:22:40,583
You don't want this guy in your league.
416
00:22:40,625 --> 00:22:43,250
Can you afford the distraction, the press,
417
00:22:43,292 --> 00:22:46,834
with an outed gay guy
having a male tickling fetish,
418
00:22:46,875 --> 00:22:48,917
in which he likes to tickle and be tickled
419
00:22:48,959 --> 00:22:52,041
by tied-up other gay
athletes and bodybuilders?"
420
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:53,959
False accusations, saying I'm a drug addict
421
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,667
and I was a child molester
and I'm gay, and this and that,
422
00:22:56,708 --> 00:22:58,959
which none of those
things have ever been true.
423
00:23:15,334 --> 00:23:17,000
I've always been very proud.
424
00:23:17,041 --> 00:23:18,841
The way I walk around,
I'm proud of who I am.
425
00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:20,292
You know what I mean? So to speak.
426
00:23:20,334 --> 00:23:21,810
I'm confident in myself as an athlete,
427
00:23:21,834 --> 00:23:23,250
as a person, as a player.
428
00:23:24,541 --> 00:23:26,041
But when I'd go to try-outs,
429
00:23:26,083 --> 00:23:27,875
the first thing I would think about is,
430
00:23:29,917 --> 00:23:32,184
- "Well, I wonder if these coaches
- have looked up that video?"
431
00:23:32,208 --> 00:23:33,834
And it's happened. It has happened.
432
00:23:33,875 --> 00:23:35,667
I've been released from football teams.
433
00:23:35,708 --> 00:23:37,250
They've told me, uh,
434
00:23:37,292 --> 00:23:39,917
that I'm the best player on
that team at that position,
435
00:23:39,959 --> 00:23:42,834
but because it is a
distraction for the media,
436
00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:44,834
they don't need that attention
437
00:23:44,875 --> 00:23:48,035
- and they'll go with somebody else 'cause
they don't feel - like explaining it.
438
00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:51,463
- You know, and I've actually dealt
with a lot of things - because of it.
439
00:23:52,375 --> 00:23:55,375
It's cost me money, it's cost me
jobs, it's caused me harassment,
440
00:23:55,417 --> 00:23:58,792
which is exactly what Debbie
Kuhn and Jane O'Brien wanted.
441
00:23:58,834 --> 00:24:01,792
So, I mean, more or less
in that aspect, they've won.
442
00:24:11,417 --> 00:24:14,459
It's obvious we're not the
only ones being harassed
443
00:24:14,499 --> 00:24:16,083
by Jane O'Brien Media.
444
00:24:16,125 --> 00:24:19,792
And there are so many
websites made up like TJ's
445
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,417
Which seem to exist purely
446
00:24:21,459 --> 00:24:23,834
to shame the guys who've been tickled.
447
00:24:26,667 --> 00:24:30,541
What goes on at these shoots,
and why is she so aggressive?
448
00:24:32,583 --> 00:24:34,292
Dylan's been doing some research,
449
00:24:34,334 --> 00:24:37,083
and he thinks he knows where
the next shoot is happening.
450
00:24:39,041 --> 00:24:41,375
We stake out the studio, hoping to find out
451
00:24:41,417 --> 00:24:44,834
how a competitive tickling shoot goes down.
452
00:24:45,667 --> 00:24:47,000
Okay, car.
453
00:24:53,708 --> 00:24:56,000
And another car. Two cars.
454
00:24:56,041 --> 00:24:57,541
Two cars.
455
00:25:03,083 --> 00:25:04,625
Can you see what the car's doing?
456
00:25:04,667 --> 00:25:05,959
I've lost him.
457
00:25:10,292 --> 00:25:12,708
Who's that guy? - Oh, that's Marko.
458
00:25:15,167 --> 00:25:18,667
Oh, yeah. And we've got
four guys going in so far.
459
00:25:18,708 --> 00:25:20,125
Four guys.
460
00:25:24,667 --> 00:25:26,334
That's the guy from New Zealand.
461
00:25:26,375 --> 00:25:28,000
Yep, there's Kevin.
462
00:25:49,541 --> 00:25:52,667
We could hear laughter
coming out of the vents.
463
00:25:56,583 --> 00:25:58,875
It went on for hours,
464
00:26:00,541 --> 00:26:03,125
The boys occasionally taking breaks.
465
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:17,334
You know, this is actually
fucking creepy as fuck.
466
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:19,583
Like, this feels to me like a pep talk.
467
00:26:19,625 --> 00:26:20,834
Yeah.
468
00:26:22,499 --> 00:26:23,917
As the day wraps up,
469
00:26:23,959 --> 00:26:26,250
I want to give Kevin one last chance
470
00:26:26,292 --> 00:26:28,208
to talk about what's going on.
471
00:26:29,708 --> 00:26:31,083
With pending lawsuits,
472
00:26:32,667 --> 00:26:34,787
I'm cautious and don't
want to storm into the studio.
473
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:38,125
They haven't locked the door.
474
00:26:38,167 --> 00:26:39,750
I think we go.
475
00:26:42,417 --> 00:26:43,792
All right. Okay, let's go.
476
00:26:44,417 --> 00:26:46,834
We're good? - Yep, we're good.
477
00:26:57,250 --> 00:26:58,541
Come this way.
478
00:26:59,792 --> 00:27:02,708
Here we go. We've been spotted.
479
00:27:12,375 --> 00:27:16,125
Hello, Marko. Hey, guys.
480
00:27:25,208 --> 00:27:26,459
Adam, how's it going?
481
00:27:26,499 --> 00:27:28,167
Oh, my god.
482
00:27:30,167 --> 00:27:31,541
Hello, sir.
483
00:27:31,583 --> 00:27:33,208
You're not welcome here.
484
00:27:33,708 --> 00:27:34,708
We're not welcome here?
485
00:27:35,834 --> 00:27:36,583
Shut the door and I'm calling the police.
486
00:27:36,625 --> 00:27:38,417
Bye. Out.
487
00:27:38,459 --> 00:27:40,167
All right. Well, we'll head off.
488
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,684
You don't want to do any
final chats or anything?
489
00:27:42,708 --> 00:27:44,000
Last opportunity.
490
00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:50,541
That's all we can do.
491
00:27:57,917 --> 00:28:00,167
Turn right on Bellevue Avenue,
492
00:28:00,208 --> 00:28:02,000
then take the first right.
493
00:28:03,208 --> 00:28:07,167
I think... Yeah, uh, after
New Zealand and that,
494
00:28:07,208 --> 00:28:10,334
I think it's safe to say that we don't...
495
00:28:10,375 --> 00:28:13,083
We don't have an interview
with Kevin or Marko.
496
00:28:13,708 --> 00:28:15,000
And we certainly weren't getting
497
00:28:16,541 --> 00:28:17,976
any more of the
competitors to talk on camera.
498
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,917
They were all too terrified,
499
00:28:19,959 --> 00:28:24,041
hoping if they stayed quiet,
the harassment would go away.
500
00:28:26,083 --> 00:28:28,583
I mean, are we making the
whole thing worse for everyone
501
00:28:28,625 --> 00:28:30,167
just by even being here?
502
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:32,000
Yeah. I think it's possible.
503
00:28:32,041 --> 00:28:35,334
I worry that we make it
worse for some people who...
504
00:28:35,375 --> 00:28:37,334
Who've gotten through
the worst of it, you know?
505
00:28:37,375 --> 00:28:38,541
Mm.
506
00:28:55,208 --> 00:28:57,667
Jane O'Brien clearly isn't being honest
507
00:28:57,708 --> 00:28:59,459
about what the videos are for.
508
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:02,250
And I'm convinced that
despite the Adidas gear,
509
00:29:02,292 --> 00:29:04,792
it's not a real sport.
510
00:29:09,208 --> 00:29:11,292
I've tracked down a man in Florida
511
00:29:11,334 --> 00:29:13,250
who also makes tickling videos,
512
00:29:13,292 --> 00:29:17,125
but, unlike Jane, is more
than happy to talk about it.
513
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,917
People ask me about what
is the appeal of tickling?
514
00:29:51,167 --> 00:29:53,959
It's kind of like the whips
and chains, you know,
515
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,500
bondage sort of thing, where
somebody's getting flogged.
516
00:29:56,541 --> 00:30:00,334
But it's just really brought
down a level, you know?
517
00:30:00,375 --> 00:30:02,000
It's like kind of a sadistic
518
00:30:02,041 --> 00:30:04,334
exerting your will on someone else,
519
00:30:04,375 --> 00:30:06,708
and having them do
something out of their control
520
00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:09,334
like laughing without
being able to get away,
521
00:30:09,375 --> 00:30:12,792
as if it's, uh, tickle torture to them.
522
00:30:13,959 --> 00:30:15,667
And a lot of people don't seem to know
523
00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:17,334
about the tickling fetish.
524
00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:19,167
Do you think it's a
little bit more unknown?
525
00:30:19,208 --> 00:30:21,250
Oh, totally. Yeah, completely.
526
00:30:21,292 --> 00:30:24,083
'Cause most people, you
know, know about a foot fetish,
527
00:30:24,834 --> 00:30:26,334
um, but tickling?
528
00:30:26,375 --> 00:30:28,959
Most people are like,
"Oh, wow. Is that a thing?"
529
00:30:31,125 --> 00:30:37,125
It was in 1999. I had just
gotten out of grad school,
530
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,583
You know, so I just got a video camera,
531
00:30:40,625 --> 00:30:42,250
put together a little business plan,
532
00:30:43,417 --> 00:30:44,708
Talked to one of my friends
533
00:30:46,208 --> 00:30:47,125
and he financed me,
when I started the site,
534
00:30:47,167 --> 00:30:49,125
I think for $6000 or $7000.
535
00:30:50,792 --> 00:30:53,083
It got pretty much an immediate response.
536
00:31:06,292 --> 00:31:07,834
I was making enough after a year
537
00:31:07,875 --> 00:31:09,834
to quit my job and do it full-time.
538
00:31:13,541 --> 00:31:14,834
So this is it?
539
00:31:14,875 --> 00:31:16,541
- This is it. - This is the studio.
540
00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:18,708
- Mm-hm. - The chair.
541
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:22,708
And then the changing room, bathroom.
542
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:25,500
And so, this whole place
is purely for the tickling?
543
00:31:25,541 --> 00:31:26,834
Yes.
544
00:31:30,459 --> 00:31:32,667
Oh, so you've got a few
different spaces, right?
545
00:31:32,708 --> 00:31:33,875
Yeah, yeah.
546
00:31:35,167 --> 00:31:35,834
I used to do all this out of my house.
547
00:31:35,875 --> 00:31:36,875
Yeah.
548
00:31:38,250 --> 00:31:39,601
And then it was, you know,
a parade of people coming in,
549
00:31:39,625 --> 00:31:42,041
do all this, have to clean up.
550
00:31:42,083 --> 00:31:45,000
You know, have to
clean it up before a shoot.
551
00:31:45,041 --> 00:31:47,750
And this way I can walk away.
552
00:31:47,792 --> 00:31:48,875
Yeah, this is great.
553
00:31:48,917 --> 00:31:50,208
Like, "I'm tired. Going home."
554
00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:51,250
You're done.
555
00:31:52,750 --> 00:31:53,500
Well, this is work, right?
It's like work, home.
556
00:31:53,541 --> 00:31:54,625
Mm-hm. Exactly.
557
00:31:56,041 --> 00:31:57,851
Have you done stuff like
this before for anyone else?
558
00:31:57,875 --> 00:31:59,667
Or this sort of a unique thing for you?
559
00:31:59,708 --> 00:32:01,083
Uh, unique thing.
560
00:32:01,125 --> 00:32:03,750
I never worked for a tickling site before.
561
00:32:03,792 --> 00:32:04,875
Okay. - No.
562
00:32:06,667 --> 00:32:07,583
And what did you first
think when you got the pitch?
563
00:32:07,625 --> 00:32:09,000
I mean, I laughed about it.
564
00:32:09,041 --> 00:32:10,667
I'm like, this can't be really serious,
565
00:32:10,708 --> 00:32:12,292
Like, people really can't...
566
00:32:12,334 --> 00:32:15,250
enjoy watching this or getting it done.
567
00:32:15,834 --> 00:32:17,167
But, um, I said, "Why not?"
568
00:32:17,208 --> 00:32:18,888
You know, I'm more of like the risk-taker.
569
00:32:19,041 --> 00:32:21,500
I'd rather say I did something
than didn't do something.
570
00:32:21,541 --> 00:32:22,541
So I came down,
571
00:32:24,041 --> 00:32:25,184
really was kind of nervous,
didn't know what to expect.
572
00:32:25,208 --> 00:32:26,959
And then... But Richard put me at ease,
573
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,000
and once you're trapped in you're there.
574
00:32:29,041 --> 00:32:32,167
So, I mean, you might as well enjoy it.
575
00:32:32,208 --> 00:32:33,541
All right.
576
00:32:35,334 --> 00:32:38,708
Okay, ready? - I think you're...
577
00:32:39,917 --> 00:32:41,083
Take it easy on me today.
578
00:32:41,375 --> 00:32:42,517
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
579
00:32:42,541 --> 00:32:43,708
That's good.
580
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:50,583
Got to enjoy my freedom now. - Yeah.
581
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,334
Because I cannot. - Wave goodbye.
582
00:32:53,375 --> 00:32:55,000
I am not getting out.
583
00:32:56,208 --> 00:32:57,708
Oh, shit.
584
00:32:59,875 --> 00:33:03,000
The world of tickling.
585
00:33:07,708 --> 00:33:09,541
So, catch your breath.
586
00:33:11,667 --> 00:33:14,000
- Breath caught. - Okay.
587
00:33:23,417 --> 00:33:25,334
All right. Now tell everybody
588
00:33:25,375 --> 00:33:27,292
what a tough guy you are.
589
00:33:30,541 --> 00:33:36,208
Just go.
590
00:33:49,708 --> 00:33:51,250
Stop.
591
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:01,083
Oh, my gosh.
592
00:34:01,667 --> 00:34:03,541
I hate this.
593
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:49,000
So when did you realize
594
00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:54,250
that you found tickling
to be an erotic thing?
595
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,625
I was very young,
596
00:34:56,667 --> 00:35:01,583
you know, probably five or
six. You know, very, very young.
597
00:35:05,625 --> 00:35:10,834
You see something in a cartoon
or a magazine that, you know,
598
00:35:10,875 --> 00:35:12,959
kind of interests you as a little kid,
599
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,834
and for me it would be, you know, like,
600
00:35:14,875 --> 00:35:17,834
cartoon characters
being tickled or tied up or,
601
00:35:17,875 --> 00:35:19,292
you know, that sort of thing.
602
00:35:19,334 --> 00:35:22,167
And it would, you know, fascinate me,
603
00:35:22,208 --> 00:35:24,625
but I had no idea why.
604
00:35:47,583 --> 00:35:50,208
How do you feel?
605
00:35:50,708 --> 00:35:52,167
I feel tired.
606
00:35:52,208 --> 00:35:54,667
- I feel sweaty.
- Can I get you some water?
607
00:35:54,708 --> 00:36:00,000
Yeah, water would probably work.
608
00:36:01,041 --> 00:36:03,583
I started to become
comfortable with this, uh,
609
00:36:03,625 --> 00:36:05,417
fetish and this part of myself,
610
00:36:05,459 --> 00:36:08,541
and started to really realize
that it was a part of myself,
611
00:36:08,583 --> 00:36:09,667
when I...
612
00:36:09,708 --> 00:36:11,917
When I got on AOL
613
00:36:12,375 --> 00:36:14,583
and then did a search
for what I was looking for
614
00:36:14,625 --> 00:36:15,750
and found that, "Wow!
615
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,226
There's actually, you know, quite a lot of
616
00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:18,708
other people that are into this."
617
00:36:25,917 --> 00:36:28,500
At the time, the late '90s,
618
00:36:28,541 --> 00:36:32,167
was, um, somebody that posted
on the message boards a lot.
619
00:36:33,208 --> 00:36:37,167
And she said her name
was Terri, Terri Tickle.
620
00:36:37,208 --> 00:36:42,541
And Terri DiSisto, she put
in what her real name was.
621
00:36:43,959 --> 00:36:46,000
She always had a picture of herself.
622
00:36:46,041 --> 00:36:49,667
You know, a blonde,
pretty, college-aged girl.
623
00:36:49,708 --> 00:36:53,625
And, she always posted the same verbiage.
624
00:36:53,667 --> 00:36:55,334
Something like, "This is not porn.
625
00:36:55,375 --> 00:36:57,208
My interest is in tickling."
626
00:36:58,041 --> 00:37:02,375
And she just said that she
was a tickling fanatic and...
627
00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:05,334
But, I mean, these posts were everywhere.
628
00:37:08,250 --> 00:37:10,708
And then, um, some
videos started popping up,
629
00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:12,875
you know, very, you know, innocent.
630
00:37:14,292 --> 00:37:16,959
And, those are probably the first
631
00:37:18,167 --> 00:37:21,792
tickle videos that I
ever saw on the Internet.
632
00:37:25,875 --> 00:37:28,459
There are still traces
of Terri Tickle online
633
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:29,750
from the mid-'90s,
634
00:37:31,250 --> 00:37:33,125
And as Richard said,
she was tickle-obsessed.
635
00:37:33,167 --> 00:37:35,834
Like Jane, she also hired other people
636
00:37:35,875 --> 00:37:37,834
to shoot the videos she wanted.
637
00:37:40,208 --> 00:37:45,917
Well, the, uh, just strange, rich brat,
638
00:37:46,541 --> 00:37:48,083
I guess you could say.
639
00:37:48,834 --> 00:37:52,667
Someone who, uh, got her rocks off by, uh,
640
00:37:52,708 --> 00:37:55,500
seeing guys, uh, tied and tickled.
641
00:37:55,541 --> 00:37:58,541
Obviously an extreme dominatrix.
642
00:38:00,459 --> 00:38:01,750
For most of his life,
643
00:38:01,792 --> 00:38:03,708
Dave Starr has worked on the edges
644
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:05,917
of the entertainment industry,
645
00:38:05,959 --> 00:38:09,167
even acting in a couple of pornos.
646
00:38:09,208 --> 00:38:10,417
During the mid-'90s,
647
00:38:12,041 --> 00:38:14,361
he noticed Terri's online
posts wanting tickling videos...
648
00:38:14,541 --> 00:38:15,875
lots of them.
649
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:23,541
Terri was, uh, out there
looking for guys, uh, 18 to 23.
650
00:38:24,375 --> 00:38:29,000
And I, uh, figured that it would, um...
651
00:38:30,041 --> 00:38:32,334
be something right up my alley,
652
00:38:32,375 --> 00:38:35,041
based on my, uh, working in casting.
653
00:38:37,667 --> 00:38:41,625
What sort of things was
she recruiting for specifically?
654
00:38:42,917 --> 00:38:46,667
Uh, tickle torture films.
Tickle torture videos.
655
00:38:47,375 --> 00:38:50,000
Can you turn that thing
around so I can see it?
656
00:38:50,041 --> 00:38:51,167
All right.
657
00:38:53,292 --> 00:38:55,208
- Is that all right? - Yeah, that's good.
658
00:38:58,375 --> 00:39:02,041
She claimed it was
for a private collection,
659
00:39:03,875 --> 00:39:06,917
so I was thinking, "Okay, amateur hour."
660
00:39:13,083 --> 00:39:18,417
But me, I rapidly took it
into a professional level.
661
00:39:19,083 --> 00:39:21,834
Okay, are you, uh, ticklish?
662
00:39:21,875 --> 00:39:23,583
Uh, yes, I am.
663
00:39:23,625 --> 00:39:25,959
Okay, step forward about a foot.
664
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,708
Okay. Place your hands behind
your head, inter-clasp them.
665
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:31,750
Step back a little further, though.
666
00:39:31,792 --> 00:39:33,292
Okay, right about there.
667
00:39:33,334 --> 00:39:34,583
Okay, inter-clasp them
668
00:39:34,625 --> 00:39:36,792
and do not release them at any time
669
00:39:36,834 --> 00:39:38,375
during the entire tickle test.
670
00:39:38,417 --> 00:39:39,708
Do your worst on this one.
671
00:39:40,167 --> 00:39:41,625
We would put them in through
672
00:39:41,667 --> 00:39:43,667
their stage one audition,
673
00:39:43,708 --> 00:39:47,250
which is the questions
and the test tickles.
674
00:39:48,125 --> 00:39:51,250
Do not collapse. Stay looking up at us.
675
00:39:57,041 --> 00:39:58,375
Stay facing us.
676
00:40:05,334 --> 00:40:11,000
Stage two is tying them to the table,
677
00:40:11,041 --> 00:40:12,500
tickling them,
678
00:40:12,541 --> 00:40:14,541
flipping them over every 15 minutes,
679
00:40:14,583 --> 00:40:18,292
kind of like a sausage or meat.
680
00:40:21,708 --> 00:40:23,167
And then after that, uh,
681
00:40:23,208 --> 00:40:27,208
we had the competitive
tickling at that point.
682
00:40:27,250 --> 00:40:30,208
Tickle wars and stuff like that.
683
00:40:30,250 --> 00:40:34,750
And that would involve
a massive production.
684
00:40:48,834 --> 00:40:50,375
Okay, don't laugh.
685
00:40:50,792 --> 00:40:53,000
You're giggling already, aren't you?
686
00:40:54,750 --> 00:40:56,959
Well, you just might be the type of person
687
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,208
that David Starr is looking for.
688
00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:00,541
He is a Hollywood producer
689
00:41:01,959 --> 00:41:03,184
working on a new reality-based game show
690
00:41:03,208 --> 00:41:05,625
called Tickle Talk.
691
00:41:05,667 --> 00:41:09,834
- The storyline is a person is arrested in an
amusement park - for not having enough fun.
692
00:41:09,875 --> 00:41:13,250
He's taken to the mouse hole
and tickled by beautiful women
693
00:41:13,292 --> 00:41:16,000
until it's determined he's had enough fun.
694
00:41:16,041 --> 00:41:17,417
It might be preferable to
695
00:41:17,459 --> 00:41:19,625
eating rats or grubs on Survivor
696
00:41:19,667 --> 00:41:21,541
but just barely.
697
00:41:21,583 --> 00:41:24,583
I'm Anne James, KSEN K96 News.
698
00:41:24,625 --> 00:41:27,750
Dave Starr had steady work for five years,
699
00:41:27,792 --> 00:41:31,125
Even when Terri was
hospitalized for six months.
700
00:41:31,667 --> 00:41:32,917
During that time,
701
00:41:32,959 --> 00:41:34,583
She just wrote letters specifying
702
00:41:34,625 --> 00:41:37,667
exactly what she wanted
in the tickling videos.
703
00:41:37,708 --> 00:41:39,917
"David, Merry Christmas!
704
00:41:39,959 --> 00:41:42,167
So sorry, I'm in the hospital with mono."
705
00:41:42,208 --> 00:41:45,167
"David, just a few
things I need you to do..."
706
00:41:45,208 --> 00:41:47,875
"Tell them I will send the
computer as soon as I'm well."
707
00:41:47,917 --> 00:41:50,167
"His name is Josh." "I hope
to be online again in Feb."
708
00:41:50,208 --> 00:41:53,708
"I'm still sick in bed."
"That's all for now. TD."
709
00:41:56,834 --> 00:41:59,292
My most ticklish place is, I guess...
710
00:42:00,125 --> 00:42:04,583
definitely, like... It'd
have to be in my legs...
711
00:42:05,292 --> 00:42:08,917
more than, like, my armpits
or my feet, I think, but...
712
00:42:08,959 --> 00:42:11,459
At that time she wanted to put up
713
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:15,000
and did indeed put up
a website for a while, uh,
714
00:42:15,041 --> 00:42:19,000
unauthorized releasing of the videos...
715
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,083
against the agreement of the talent,
716
00:42:22,625 --> 00:42:24,083
and I flipped my lid.
717
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:26,125
And, lo and behold,
718
00:42:26,167 --> 00:42:30,083
she goes and registers
domains in their names
719
00:42:30,667 --> 00:42:32,334
and then proceeds to...
720
00:42:33,041 --> 00:42:37,208
release all their content on
to those particular websites.
721
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:50,625
She was, like, sending me emails about, um,
722
00:42:50,667 --> 00:42:51,893
"What do you think your mother's
723
00:42:51,917 --> 00:42:53,625
gonna think about this?"
724
00:42:54,041 --> 00:42:58,000
And then, like, I'd be like,
you know, "Fuck you, bitch."
725
00:42:58,041 --> 00:43:02,500
And she'd be, like...
like, totally antagonizing.
726
00:43:02,541 --> 00:43:07,708
Like... I mean, she was such a cunt.
727
00:43:12,083 --> 00:43:16,125
It was an assault not just on
me but on my family, you know?
728
00:43:17,041 --> 00:43:19,875
I mean, I couldn't have a more
conservative family, you know?
729
00:43:19,917 --> 00:43:23,708
I'm, I'm in a family full of
republican, military people,
730
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:27,167
And I'm a... I was a professional banker.
731
00:43:27,208 --> 00:43:31,792
And here I am, like,
with basically a porn site,
732
00:43:31,834 --> 00:43:34,959
where I'm not naked, but,
I mean, I might as well be.
733
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,125
You know, this was
ruining my life at the time.
734
00:43:38,167 --> 00:43:39,167
That's how I felt.
735
00:43:40,417 --> 00:43:42,792
It certainly was affecting
my ability to function,
736
00:43:42,834 --> 00:43:48,334
because it was so emotionally draining.
737
00:43:48,375 --> 00:43:53,917
Part of the reason was because
there's nobody to help me.
738
00:43:55,083 --> 00:43:59,541
It's like you lose control
over, you know, your life.
739
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:10,541
Well, that's when the,
uh, crap started happening,
740
00:44:10,583 --> 00:44:11,959
uh, with me.
741
00:44:12,875 --> 00:44:16,083
Um, you decide, "Okay, because I, uh,
742
00:44:16,125 --> 00:44:19,375
I closed down submissions for her,
743
00:44:19,417 --> 00:44:20,417
And,
744
00:44:21,917 --> 00:44:25,167
I guess, I basically was
like her tickling drug dealer,
745
00:44:25,208 --> 00:44:28,792
And, uh, since she wasn't
getting her drug any more,
746
00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:31,667
She was going through tickle withdrawals.
747
00:44:33,375 --> 00:44:35,208
And what happened?
748
00:44:35,959 --> 00:44:39,334
I started, uh, receiving the, uh,
749
00:44:39,375 --> 00:44:43,541
strange postcards, and
the, uh, strange messages.
750
00:44:44,250 --> 00:44:48,541
The, uh... The, uh, talent was
starting to receive messages.
751
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,750
And, uh, she also deployed a
thing called the phone blaster,
752
00:44:53,792 --> 00:45:00,334
Which was to call everybody
with obscene messages.
753
00:45:01,167 --> 00:45:04,875
You have been identified
as a known associate
754
00:45:04,917 --> 00:45:09,708
of homosexual pornographer David W Starr.
755
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:12,792
Your phone number, personal information
756
00:45:12,834 --> 00:45:16,041
and your precise
relationship with David Starr.
757
00:45:16,083 --> 00:45:20,834
Are entirely known and subject
to publication on the internet.
758
00:45:20,875 --> 00:45:23,792
David Starr does not value your privacy.
759
00:45:23,834 --> 00:45:27,000
Hairy, horny and hook-nosed.
760
00:45:27,041 --> 00:45:28,625
Thank you for your time,
761
00:45:28,667 --> 00:45:32,334
interest and attention to this advisory.
762
00:45:32,375 --> 00:45:34,041
Goodbye.
763
00:45:34,875 --> 00:45:37,125
This person's on drugs.
764
00:45:38,917 --> 00:45:42,834
This person's gotta be
on crystal or something,
765
00:45:43,375 --> 00:45:46,959
or taking cocaine up the
ass, or something like that.
766
00:45:47,667 --> 00:45:49,125
It was weird.
767
00:45:51,375 --> 00:45:54,334
I'm glad to be able to
make this available to you.
768
00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:57,167
David kept a number of
letters Terri had sent him
769
00:45:57,208 --> 00:46:00,375
and was keen to show
me the extent of the abuse.
770
00:46:01,041 --> 00:46:05,875
- All right. - This is the magic stuff.
771
00:46:06,834 --> 00:46:08,292
All right, what have we got?
772
00:46:12,292 --> 00:46:15,334
Yeah. Uh, these are basically copies
773
00:46:15,375 --> 00:46:18,125
of what she would post online.
774
00:46:18,541 --> 00:46:20,375
So who's Barbara? Is that your...?
775
00:46:20,417 --> 00:46:21,583
That's my mother.
776
00:46:22,208 --> 00:46:24,167
"Hairy and horny. Hairy and horny.
777
00:46:24,208 --> 00:46:26,499
Jewish tickle filmer David W. Starr
778
00:46:26,541 --> 00:46:28,167
is hook-nosed, hairy and horny."
779
00:46:28,208 --> 00:46:33,583
She's used that tag line
for many, many, many times.
780
00:46:33,625 --> 00:46:35,000
What did your...?
781
00:46:35,041 --> 00:46:36,834
What did your mother think of this stuff
782
00:46:36,875 --> 00:46:38,917
when this turned up? I mean...
783
00:46:38,959 --> 00:46:40,959
Actually, her phrase was, uh...
784
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,041
Here's a, uh, note that
she left me because, uh,
785
00:46:44,083 --> 00:46:46,083
she would hold these for me in the mail
786
00:46:46,125 --> 00:46:49,499
and basically just say,
"Here's another nasty thing."
787
00:46:49,541 --> 00:46:51,875
And that one actually is unopened.
788
00:46:51,917 --> 00:46:54,792
I've never even opened it to this date.
789
00:46:56,083 --> 00:47:01,041
And let's see what our little
illustrious friend had to say.
790
00:47:01,459 --> 00:47:03,708
Oh, God. So it's a card.
791
00:47:05,208 --> 00:47:08,499
"Roses are red, violets are bue."
792
00:47:08,541 --> 00:47:10,125
Can't spell worth shit.
793
00:47:10,167 --> 00:47:13,000
"David W. Starr has brought this upon you.
794
00:47:13,041 --> 00:47:16,041
Perhaps you wish, perhaps instead,
795
00:47:16,083 --> 00:47:18,667
that David your failure,
not Edward, were dead."
796
00:47:18,708 --> 00:47:21,375
That's a reference to
my brother, who is dead.
797
00:47:22,375 --> 00:47:25,959
That's, uh, really
extreme. A little bit psycho.
798
00:47:26,375 --> 00:47:28,810
But, I mean, what...? When
you were getting all this material
799
00:47:28,834 --> 00:47:31,625
and some of it's talking
about your brother who
800
00:47:31,667 --> 00:47:33,017
- has passed away and... - Uh-huh.
801
00:47:33,041 --> 00:47:34,499
Writing this stuff to your mother,
802
00:47:34,541 --> 00:47:37,208
I mean, that, that must have...
803
00:47:38,459 --> 00:47:41,917
I mean, that... that's not nice
receiving that on weekly basis.
804
00:47:41,959 --> 00:47:46,208
Uh, no, but it was on a
weekly basis, uh, yeah.
805
00:47:48,125 --> 00:47:50,167
Yeah, where did they have the time?
806
00:47:52,208 --> 00:47:54,459
- Jeez, it's a birthday card. - Yeah.
807
00:47:54,499 --> 00:47:55,708
"Happy birthday.
808
00:47:57,041 --> 00:48:01,334
Edward Starr dead."
This is really cruel, right?
809
00:48:01,375 --> 00:48:02,750
It's very sick.
810
00:48:06,834 --> 00:48:09,167
The more I hear about Terri DiSisto,
811
00:48:09,208 --> 00:48:12,000
the more she sounds like Jane O'Brien.
812
00:48:12,041 --> 00:48:15,917
To state the obvious, they
both really enjoy tickling.
813
00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:18,959
They also like being in
control and lashing out.
814
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,917
I really appreciate it and stay in touch.
815
00:48:23,208 --> 00:48:25,541
And it turns out Terri's habits started
816
00:48:25,583 --> 00:48:27,834
way before Dave Starr got involved.
817
00:48:28,208 --> 00:48:30,708
I've found a journalist who'd
spent a year uncovering
818
00:48:30,750 --> 00:48:34,583
the truth about Terri
DiSisto during the '90s.
819
00:48:35,917 --> 00:48:38,750
Terri DiSisto's MO was to bait these boys
820
00:48:38,792 --> 00:48:40,834
into making tickling videos with
821
00:48:40,875 --> 00:48:42,835
things that they wanted,
right? You know, I mean,
822
00:48:43,459 --> 00:48:45,334
imagine being a teenage boy,
823
00:48:45,375 --> 00:48:48,375
and, like, you get this random
email saying, you know,
824
00:48:48,417 --> 00:48:51,499
"I saw your posting about
the Phish concert, and, uh,
825
00:48:51,541 --> 00:48:52,834
how would you like to go?"
826
00:48:52,875 --> 00:48:55,334
Or, " I can send you $1000 cash."
827
00:48:55,375 --> 00:48:57,175
And you're like...
you're living in your dorm
828
00:48:57,208 --> 00:48:59,875
at James Madison University.
You're like, "Yeah, sure.
829
00:48:59,917 --> 00:49:03,208
You're gonna send me $1000 cash. Right."
830
00:49:04,083 --> 00:49:06,750
FedEx pulls up in front
of your dorm the next day,
831
00:49:06,792 --> 00:49:09,959
and there is ten $100 bills.
832
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,625
You haven't done anything.
833
00:49:13,375 --> 00:49:15,959
She would just keep sending
them whatever they wanted,
834
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,541
you know. Computers, cameras, more cash,
835
00:49:19,583 --> 00:49:21,792
tickets to rock concerts.
836
00:49:23,041 --> 00:49:26,083
Then at some point, even a teenage boy
837
00:49:26,125 --> 00:49:28,625
has all the toys that they want.
838
00:49:29,375 --> 00:49:31,499
And they say, "I... I'm done."
839
00:49:32,667 --> 00:49:37,875
But I think the thing that
she hates the most was no.
840
00:49:37,917 --> 00:49:42,125
It was like... A bomb went off.
841
00:49:44,708 --> 00:49:46,250
And she'd say, "Well,
842
00:49:46,292 --> 00:49:50,208
if you don't do it, I'm
gonna make your life hell."
843
00:49:51,667 --> 00:49:53,667
"I'm gonna send clips of these videos
844
00:49:53,708 --> 00:49:55,041
to your wrestling coach."
845
00:49:56,499 --> 00:49:58,268
"I'm gonna send clips of
these videos to your mom."
846
00:49:58,292 --> 00:50:00,917
"I'm gonna send clips of these
videos to your grandmother."
847
00:50:00,959 --> 00:50:02,625
"I'm gonna send clips of these videos
848
00:50:02,667 --> 00:50:04,834
to the president of your university."
849
00:50:04,875 --> 00:50:06,517
"I'm gonna post them
all over the Internet."
850
00:50:06,541 --> 00:50:09,208
"I'm gonna pretend to be you
and do things on the Internet
851
00:50:09,250 --> 00:50:11,959
that are gonna create a
terrible reputation for you."
852
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,459
"I'm gonna shut down the entire
college campus computer system
853
00:50:16,499 --> 00:50:19,834
at your college, and
they're gonna think it's you."
854
00:50:21,875 --> 00:50:23,208
And then it happened.
855
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:40,000
The first story I did was because
856
00:50:40,375 --> 00:50:44,292
she was attacking, um, Drexel University.
857
00:50:46,041 --> 00:50:50,292
And I found the student who, um,
858
00:50:50,959 --> 00:50:53,167
had made a number of videos for her.
859
00:50:56,292 --> 00:50:59,875
And when he came to
Philadelphia to go to college,
860
00:50:59,917 --> 00:51:02,208
she wanted him to continue
making these videos,
861
00:51:02,250 --> 00:51:05,834
and he wanted to cut off
his relationship with her.
862
00:51:05,875 --> 00:51:08,875
And she retaliated on so many levels.
863
00:51:10,375 --> 00:51:12,268
Their email servers'
computers were being shut down
864
00:51:12,292 --> 00:51:14,334
with these denial-of-service attacks
865
00:51:14,375 --> 00:51:17,250
that indicated that they
were coming from him.
866
00:51:20,583 --> 00:51:22,708
Email-bombing the White House,
867
00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:24,917
indicating that it came from him.
868
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,541
Yeah, that's pretty serious
stuff when the Secret Service
869
00:51:28,583 --> 00:51:32,334
shows up in your college
dorm and you're 19 years old.
870
00:51:38,834 --> 00:51:41,750
I was just curious, and I somehow
871
00:51:41,792 --> 00:51:45,667
started contacting Terri on AOL.
872
00:51:45,708 --> 00:51:47,041
She had an account.
873
00:51:49,208 --> 00:51:51,834
And we would have
these chats late at night.
874
00:51:52,583 --> 00:51:57,208
And I was curious what
kind of mind was behind this...
875
00:51:57,834 --> 00:52:00,167
celebrated Internet personage.
876
00:52:01,041 --> 00:52:04,000
And it was, it was kind of crazy.
877
00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,917
We would have these conversations,
878
00:52:06,541 --> 00:52:07,583
and she would...
879
00:52:08,917 --> 00:52:10,059
When she realized that I
did wine, she would say,
880
00:52:10,083 --> 00:52:12,459
"Oh, I'm having a glass of Chardonnay!"
881
00:52:12,499 --> 00:52:16,708
And I could just hear this
voice because as it went on,
882
00:52:16,750 --> 00:52:20,000
It was almost like she
was completely intoxicated
883
00:52:20,041 --> 00:52:23,708
with this power that she had to...
884
00:52:24,250 --> 00:52:26,625
to be so destructive against people.
885
00:52:37,083 --> 00:52:41,292
I got word about a kid who
refused to make the videos.
886
00:52:42,875 --> 00:52:45,334
He posted that he needed some help,
887
00:52:45,375 --> 00:52:47,917
and somebody said they would help him.
888
00:52:51,334 --> 00:52:53,959
And somehow he got emailed a file,
889
00:52:55,083 --> 00:52:59,334
and he was told, "If you
email this zip file to Terri,
890
00:52:59,375 --> 00:53:01,041
she will leave you alone."
891
00:53:04,708 --> 00:53:06,708
And then he sent me that zip file.
892
00:53:12,125 --> 00:53:14,917
You know, and I remember
opening it up and thinking...
893
00:53:16,208 --> 00:53:19,917
"Wow! You know,
this is it. Like, this is...
894
00:53:20,334 --> 00:53:22,083
this is the smoking gun."
895
00:53:29,125 --> 00:53:32,541
The zip file contained
documents from her hard drive.
896
00:53:32,583 --> 00:53:36,750
As expected, there were
files relating to tickling shoots.
897
00:53:39,041 --> 00:53:44,292
But they also revealed the
true identity of Terri Tickle.
898
00:53:57,208 --> 00:53:58,708
David D'Amato.
899
00:54:00,375 --> 00:54:04,041
She is really he, right?
900
00:54:14,292 --> 00:54:17,708
He was an assistant
principal in a high school?
901
00:54:20,499 --> 00:54:21,875
I just...
902
00:54:24,834 --> 00:54:28,167
couldn't believe it.
903
00:54:28,208 --> 00:54:30,959
I don't know why, but it just seemed...
904
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,000
Here is this sadistic person
exploiting these young people,
905
00:54:35,459 --> 00:54:37,167
often underage,
906
00:54:38,917 --> 00:54:42,208
making their lives miserable,
embarrassing them,
907
00:54:42,875 --> 00:54:45,000
to an extent that it's every...
908
00:54:45,041 --> 00:54:49,041
It goes against everything that
an educator should be doing.
909
00:54:56,292 --> 00:54:59,000
When I did some more
checking, I found out that
910
00:54:59,041 --> 00:55:02,541
he had worked at, like,
eight schools in ten years.
911
00:55:03,792 --> 00:55:05,541
Which to me was always a red flag
912
00:55:05,583 --> 00:55:07,017
that there was something else going on.
913
00:55:07,041 --> 00:55:10,083
I mean, that's more than
just sheer incompetence.
914
00:55:12,459 --> 00:55:16,541
And then I found social
security numbers for her
915
00:55:16,583 --> 00:55:18,875
that he had gotten fraudulently...
916
00:55:19,541 --> 00:55:21,667
with dead people's names.
917
00:55:26,250 --> 00:55:30,708
So I contacted the FBI.
918
00:55:31,875 --> 00:55:34,875
I turned over all my information to them.
919
00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:39,875
Within a week, they busted him.
920
00:55:52,375 --> 00:55:54,708
We were shocked at the sentencing
921
00:55:54,750 --> 00:55:57,334
because he got off so easy.
922
00:55:57,375 --> 00:56:00,250
For somebody who had done so much damage,
923
00:56:01,541 --> 00:56:03,375
to me it was just extraordinary.
924
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,667
And to not, to not
have restrictions on their
925
00:56:06,708 --> 00:56:10,750
Internet access after that, how could...?
926
00:56:11,292 --> 00:56:14,417
And the... Oh! And the idea
that he was going to law school
927
00:56:14,459 --> 00:56:16,083
was just absurd.
928
00:56:18,375 --> 00:56:21,334
It turns out David
D'Amato's father, George,
929
00:56:21,375 --> 00:56:24,208
co-founded one of wall
street's biggest law firms,
930
00:56:24,250 --> 00:56:28,625
D'Amato & Lynch, and
David got a really great lawyer.
931
00:56:29,083 --> 00:56:32,083
Instead of prison, D'Amato was
allowed to serve his sentence
932
00:56:32,125 --> 00:56:34,167
in the halfway house while he studied law
933
00:56:34,208 --> 00:56:38,041
at his father's Alma
mater, Fordham University.
934
00:56:40,375 --> 00:56:43,125
The judge, for some reason,
935
00:56:43,167 --> 00:56:46,625
Decided that he would endorse
the law school path, right?
936
00:56:47,375 --> 00:56:49,268
Because, like, this is
exactly the kind of person
937
00:56:49,292 --> 00:56:50,917
that should be a lawyer, right?
938
00:56:50,959 --> 00:56:54,167
Somebody who has defrauded people,
939
00:56:54,208 --> 00:56:56,417
somebody who has
stolen people's identities.
940
00:56:56,459 --> 00:56:58,000
A federal freakin' crime, right?
941
00:56:58,041 --> 00:57:01,292
I mean... Like, you know, stolen identity.
942
00:57:01,334 --> 00:57:03,667
Stolen a social security
number of a dead woman,
943
00:57:03,708 --> 00:57:05,792
of two dead people, right?
944
00:57:08,083 --> 00:57:11,834
It said, "David D'Amato,
39, of Garden City,
945
00:57:12,334 --> 00:57:14,834
plead guilty for two federal counts of
946
00:57:14,875 --> 00:57:16,541
computer fraud and abuse."
947
00:57:19,667 --> 00:57:21,834
Nothing about the tickling,
948
00:57:21,875 --> 00:57:26,041
nothing about the boys,
nothing about the identity theft.
949
00:57:26,083 --> 00:57:27,708
Zero. Nothing.
950
00:57:28,541 --> 00:57:31,708
Once Fordham became
aware of D'Amato's convictions,
951
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:33,792
his admission was revoked.
952
00:57:33,834 --> 00:57:35,334
No longer able to study law,
953
00:57:35,375 --> 00:57:38,250
D'Amato finished his sentence in prison.
954
00:57:38,292 --> 00:57:41,541
But I've realized that
didn't stop the tickling.
955
00:57:42,417 --> 00:57:45,083
So, this is 2002. So this
is writing to David Starr,
956
00:57:45,125 --> 00:57:47,500
who would shoot these boys tickling
957
00:57:47,541 --> 00:57:49,250
and then send the videos...
958
00:57:50,541 --> 00:57:51,875
to Terri. That was a, that's...
959
00:57:51,917 --> 00:57:54,334
because she, what she would have is...
960
00:57:55,041 --> 00:57:57,017
- Do you want your glasses?
- Back in the early days...
961
00:57:57,041 --> 00:57:59,167
Yeah. Back in the early days...
962
00:58:00,834 --> 00:58:07,208
Terri would have friends
tickle them and send them the...
963
00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:09,083
They were amateur tapes.
964
00:58:09,125 --> 00:58:11,625
- These are now professional?
- Well, this is...
965
00:58:11,667 --> 00:58:13,334
- Look at the date on it. - '02?
966
00:58:13,375 --> 00:58:14,500
Look at the date.
967
00:58:15,834 --> 00:58:18,667
- Is the "T" Terri?
- Yeah, it's Terri writing.
968
00:58:18,708 --> 00:58:23,125
So that was during, um, lock-up time.
969
00:58:23,167 --> 00:58:25,625
Oh, in jail. I get it.
970
00:58:25,667 --> 00:58:31,083
"David, a few other things.
Email... Explain my illness."
971
00:58:31,125 --> 00:58:33,459
Oh. "Tell him I'll pay everything owed
972
00:58:33,500 --> 00:58:36,292
as soon as the mono is better."
973
00:58:36,334 --> 00:58:42,125
Oh. "Get Headshots." My God! Oh, my God!
974
00:58:43,292 --> 00:58:49,625
"I won't be online for a
while as I am very sick." Oh.
975
00:58:55,541 --> 00:59:00,208
- Couldn't stop. - No. No.
976
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,334
It seems that since the mid-'90s,
977
00:59:04,375 --> 00:59:07,583
David D'Amato has never
stopped finding elaborate ways
978
00:59:07,625 --> 00:59:10,208
to get young men to tickle each other.
979
00:59:10,708 --> 00:59:12,250
His persona of Terri Tickle
980
00:59:12,292 --> 00:59:15,792
seems to have dropped
off the radar around 2006.
981
00:59:16,459 --> 00:59:20,708
A while later, Jane O'Brien
arrived on the scene.
982
00:59:24,208 --> 00:59:26,334
We've posted this theory online,
983
00:59:26,375 --> 00:59:29,167
and David D'Amato is not happy.
984
00:59:30,834 --> 00:59:34,375
He's hired not one, but
two private investigators,
985
00:59:34,417 --> 00:59:37,541
one in New Zealand and one in New York.
986
00:59:38,959 --> 00:59:42,541
The message is clear. They
tell us to stop what we're doing
987
00:59:42,583 --> 00:59:46,708
and that D'Amato has nothing
to do with Jane O'Brien Media.
988
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:49,541
On top of that,
989
00:59:51,083 --> 00:59:53,125
David D'Amato has also
hired a New Zealand lawyer.
990
00:59:53,167 --> 00:59:55,834
He's demanding an apology and retraction
991
00:59:55,875 --> 00:59:59,041
or else he'll see us in
a New Zealand court.
992
01:00:08,250 --> 01:00:09,459
We're now being attacked
993
01:00:10,834 --> 01:00:12,017
by Jane O'Brien's lawyers on one side
994
01:00:12,041 --> 01:00:14,041
and David D'Amato's on the other,
995
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:18,792
both insisting they have
nothing to do with each other.
996
01:00:18,834 --> 01:00:21,834
Once again, we're way out of our depth.
997
01:00:24,792 --> 01:00:26,500
Things get even more surreal
998
01:00:26,541 --> 01:00:28,334
with a phone call from Michigan,
999
01:00:28,375 --> 01:00:30,875
where there's a very
different tickling operation
1000
01:00:30,917 --> 01:00:32,917
also being run by Jane.
1001
01:00:36,292 --> 01:00:38,105
Um, a couple of they guys
1002
01:00:38,106 --> 01:00:39,917
are nervous because, uh...
1003
01:00:39,959 --> 01:00:41,500
they've... they've threatened us...
1004
01:00:41,541 --> 01:00:43,459
uh, death threats.
1005
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:45,188
I've had, uh, private phone calls come in:
1006
01:00:45,189 --> 01:00:46,875
"We'll kill you."
1007
01:00:48,459 --> 01:00:51,625
And then Jane sent some, uh
1008
01:00:52,250 --> 01:00:55,292
stuff that was, I guess,
like really threatening,
1009
01:00:55,334 --> 01:00:57,167
to a couple of the guys.
1010
01:00:57,208 --> 01:00:59,250
Telling us we'd better
keep our mouths shut...
1011
01:00:59,292 --> 01:01:01,041
to not talk to you.
1012
01:01:01,083 --> 01:01:04,250
I got a phone call from a
weird number out of Jamaica
1013
01:01:05,917 --> 01:01:07,959
I got another one today saying.
1014
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,000
If I talk to you or anybody
else then they're coming for me.
1015
01:01:20,292 --> 01:01:22,834
So, like, crime is pretty high...
1016
01:01:22,875 --> 01:01:24,625
Yeah... -...here, right?
1017
01:01:24,667 --> 01:01:29,541
Murder, robberies, um, rape, I mean, theft.
1018
01:01:29,583 --> 01:01:31,250
It's all up there,
1019
01:01:31,292 --> 01:01:34,792
especially for being as
small, um, as what it is.
1020
01:01:34,834 --> 01:01:36,583
We've made it now, uh,
1021
01:01:36,625 --> 01:01:41,250
on to the top 100 most dangerous
cities in the United States.
1022
01:01:41,875 --> 01:01:43,500
Do you think on some level
1023
01:01:43,541 --> 01:01:47,000
Jane kind of directed things
here because it is a poor area?
1024
01:01:47,041 --> 01:01:50,750
Yeah, you know, the
poverty level, you know,
1025
01:01:50,792 --> 01:01:52,292
- is easy to target, you know. - Mm.
1026
01:01:52,334 --> 01:01:54,917
Thousands of dollars in kids' hands is...
1027
01:01:54,959 --> 01:01:57,125
That's a, that's a big, big deal.
1028
01:02:00,417 --> 01:02:06,834
♪ Oh, say does that star-spangled ♪
1029
01:02:06,875 --> 01:02:13,708
♪ Banner yet wave ♪
1030
01:02:16,792 --> 01:02:23,959
♪ O'er the land of the free ♪
1031
01:02:26,834 --> 01:02:33,917
♪ And the home of the brave ♪
1032
01:02:43,292 --> 01:02:46,313
Jane has taken a liking
to one of Muskegon's main
1033
01:02:46,314 --> 01:02:49,334
sports, mixed martial arts.
1034
01:02:49,375 --> 01:02:53,834
A group of young, athletic
men desperate for extra money.
1035
01:03:14,959 --> 01:03:16,667
That's what she was trying to do,
1036
01:03:16,668 --> 01:03:18,375
is break into the MMA world.
1037
01:03:19,208 --> 01:03:21,875
Because it's not illegal to tickle somebody
1038
01:03:21,917 --> 01:03:25,041
to get out of a submission
in mixed martial arts.
1039
01:03:25,708 --> 01:03:27,334
Like, she was trying to pitch that
1040
01:03:27,375 --> 01:03:28,375
because she, like,
1041
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:31,550
looked it up in all the
rules and everything.
1042
01:03:31,834 --> 01:03:35,459
But if you tickle a guy
in the middle of that ring
1043
01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:37,167
to get out of a submission,
1044
01:03:37,208 --> 01:03:39,708
you might step out of the cage
and get punched in the face.
1045
01:03:40,334 --> 01:03:45,083
Like, never in a million
years out of all my fights
1046
01:03:45,125 --> 01:03:47,875
would I ever try to tickle somebody
1047
01:03:47,917 --> 01:03:51,500
to get out of a submission. Fuck, no!
1048
01:04:08,708 --> 01:04:10,125
As an ex-fighter,
1049
01:04:11,834 --> 01:04:13,643
Jordan was paid to recruit
tickling talent in the town.
1050
01:04:13,667 --> 01:04:17,583
He's the only one in Muskegon
prepared to appear on camera.
1051
01:04:18,708 --> 01:04:25,208
She offered my one buddy a
2014 Chevy Cruze and $30,000.
1052
01:04:25,583 --> 01:04:27,834
- What? What for? To tickle? - Yeah.
1053
01:04:27,875 --> 01:04:31,167
Just 'cause, like, she liked him.
1054
01:04:31,208 --> 01:04:32,643
Yeah, right. She... He was a favorite.
1055
01:04:32,667 --> 01:04:34,167
- Like, yeah. - Yeah.
1056
01:04:34,208 --> 01:04:36,625
Asians and redheads are
what they call premiums.
1057
01:04:36,667 --> 01:04:39,125
If you get those, like,
she gives you bonuses.
1058
01:04:39,708 --> 01:04:41,667
I'm Jordan Schillaci, and this is CET.
1059
01:04:41,708 --> 01:04:43,917
Uh, we're gonna be having a discussion,
1060
01:04:43,959 --> 01:04:46,792
more of a debate today
about whether tickling
1061
01:04:46,834 --> 01:04:50,041
is effective in a combat situation.
1062
01:04:54,208 --> 01:04:56,375
We ended up setting up a tickle cell. Like,
1063
01:04:56,417 --> 01:04:57,667
where you get guys to come in,
1064
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:00,435
"We'll pay you and you
pay them to audition."
1065
01:05:00,459 --> 01:05:03,292
No!
1066
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:08,250
So we'd choose a hotel, nothing fancy,
1067
01:05:08,292 --> 01:05:12,334
and, uh, the guys would come
in and hang out, you know,
1068
01:05:12,375 --> 01:05:16,875
smoke, drink, eat pizza,
fuckin', and we'd hurry up
1069
01:05:16,917 --> 01:05:20,500
and run through, you
know, five, six, seven guys.
1070
01:05:25,375 --> 01:05:28,334
- So you're... You were looking
after the tickle cell in - Muskegon?
1071
01:05:28,375 --> 01:05:30,708
Yeah, they have them
set up all over the US.
1072
01:05:30,750 --> 01:05:34,625
Ohio, Michigan, Florida, New York.
1073
01:05:34,667 --> 01:05:36,625
- I mean, they're everywhere. - Right.
1074
01:05:36,667 --> 01:05:38,792
- And they're all for Jane? - Yeah.
1075
01:05:39,292 --> 01:05:40,708
Fuckin' hell.
1076
01:05:46,375 --> 01:05:48,017
Well, that's where a lot of people started
1077
01:05:48,041 --> 01:05:49,834
getting really really upset, man.
1078
01:05:49,875 --> 01:05:51,292
Because all of sudden these videos
1079
01:05:52,875 --> 01:05:54,310
that are supposed to be just
auditions were on YouTube,
1080
01:05:54,334 --> 01:05:56,174
Vimeo, and every other
site you could imagine.
1081
01:05:56,208 --> 01:05:58,792
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Nobody was okay with that.
1082
01:06:00,959 --> 01:06:02,541
One of the guys, Brodie,
1083
01:06:02,583 --> 01:06:05,917
like, his family was very
upset with him. It was all over.
1084
01:06:05,959 --> 01:06:08,625
Like, people just picked
on him and picked on him.
1085
01:06:09,250 --> 01:06:12,417
You know, he was underage, still in school.
1086
01:06:12,459 --> 01:06:14,917
And it wasn't supposed
to go out on the Internet.
1087
01:06:14,959 --> 01:06:17,750
It wasn't supposed to be put up, and, uh,
1088
01:06:17,792 --> 01:06:21,583
you know, that just kind of sucked.
1089
01:06:21,625 --> 01:06:23,792
Because, like I said, it took Brodie...
1090
01:06:23,834 --> 01:06:25,334
it hit one of the hardest.
1091
01:06:25,375 --> 01:06:26,834
Like, this whole situation
1092
01:06:26,875 --> 01:06:29,208
and then being underage and his parents.
1093
01:06:29,250 --> 01:06:31,435
Who do you have to turn to?
Who are you going to attack?
1094
01:06:31,459 --> 01:06:35,167
No... Jane O'Brien's a
ghost. Nobody knows who it is.
1095
01:06:37,375 --> 01:06:39,000
Cody-bear, no.
1096
01:06:39,834 --> 01:06:42,292
This is Colton, this is my nephew.
1097
01:06:42,334 --> 01:06:44,292
Hey, man. - Colton, how old are you?
1098
01:06:45,334 --> 01:06:46,667
How old are you?
1099
01:06:46,708 --> 01:06:48,167
- Three. - You're three?
1100
01:06:48,208 --> 01:06:49,583
You're three? All right.
1101
01:06:50,292 --> 01:06:52,583
- I'm David. - I'm Phil. How are you doing?
1102
01:06:52,625 --> 01:06:54,000
It's nice to meet you, sir.
1103
01:06:54,875 --> 01:06:57,292
I was really, really reluctant
1104
01:06:57,334 --> 01:06:59,125
when Jordan started talking about this.
1105
01:06:59,167 --> 01:07:02,167
And he's like, "This lady
seems straight and legit, Mom."
1106
01:07:02,208 --> 01:07:05,500
I'm like, you know, "These...
these boys are young."
1107
01:07:05,541 --> 01:07:09,041
It's easy to believe, but
when you're an old mom,
1108
01:07:09,417 --> 01:07:12,500
you're a little more
leery for the boys, and,
1109
01:07:12,541 --> 01:07:15,583
I was very leery right from get-go
1110
01:07:15,625 --> 01:07:17,708
that the boys were gonna get into trouble
1111
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:19,750
and this was not legit.
1112
01:07:29,959 --> 01:07:31,851
She has all the money
in the world, it seems like,
1113
01:07:31,875 --> 01:07:34,083
whoever it is, to be able to do this.
1114
01:07:34,125 --> 01:07:37,708
But they're waiting for
that day that you rely
1115
01:07:38,375 --> 01:07:40,750
on that as a sole income.
1116
01:07:40,792 --> 01:07:42,834
That was her big, I think, power trip.
1117
01:07:42,875 --> 01:07:46,667
She waited until a bunch
of us relied on that income
1118
01:07:46,708 --> 01:07:49,167
Because that was our only source of income.
1119
01:07:49,208 --> 01:07:51,017
We'd been doing it for
so long, we didn't think...
1120
01:07:51,041 --> 01:07:53,792
She waited until she had complete control,
1121
01:07:53,834 --> 01:07:56,541
basically, over your situation,
1122
01:07:56,583 --> 01:07:58,268
and that's when she wanted to yank that rug
1123
01:07:58,292 --> 01:07:59,875
right out from under you.
1124
01:08:04,375 --> 01:08:07,875
David D'Amato. Have you
heard that name before?
1125
01:08:08,375 --> 01:08:10,041
In relation to all this stuff?
1126
01:08:11,625 --> 01:08:14,583
I am literally, like, trembling right now.
1127
01:08:14,625 --> 01:08:16,208
Are you actually shaking?
1128
01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:19,625
Yeah, I'm actually, like,
shaking. Like, I'm not, like...
1129
01:08:19,667 --> 01:08:22,834
Like I said, like, from being
from here, I don't take shit.
1130
01:08:22,875 --> 01:08:26,000
Like, if I met up with that
guy, I'd punch him right out.
1131
01:08:26,041 --> 01:08:28,459
And when he woke up, he'd
be strapped to a chair with a...
1132
01:08:28,541 --> 01:08:29,875
Like, I'd be like,
1133
01:08:29,917 --> 01:08:31,797
"Dude, you're telling
me everything right now."
1134
01:08:38,208 --> 01:08:40,583
The tickling's still
happening in this town.
1135
01:08:41,041 --> 01:08:43,167
The money is endless.
1136
01:08:43,208 --> 01:08:46,375
I've never seen it stop
coming and just flowing in.
1137
01:08:46,417 --> 01:08:48,459
And it's not just through Michigan and LA,
1138
01:08:48,500 --> 01:08:49,541
it's everywhere.
1139
01:08:50,708 --> 01:08:54,125
Like, England, Australia, Italy.
1140
01:08:54,167 --> 01:08:57,250
I mean, the money's still coming and going.
1141
01:09:01,667 --> 01:09:03,000
This tickling empire
1142
01:09:03,041 --> 01:09:05,708
is way bigger than we ever imagined.
1143
01:09:07,334 --> 01:09:10,708
We're going to New York
to find David D'Amato.
1144
01:09:47,875 --> 01:09:51,959
I can feel the rich/bad aura.
1145
01:09:54,292 --> 01:09:57,292
David D'Amato's address
is listed in Garden City,
1146
01:09:57,334 --> 01:10:00,000
an affluent suburb of Long Island.
1147
01:10:02,334 --> 01:10:05,125
He lives on the top floor of this building.
1148
01:10:06,375 --> 01:10:07,792
Lance Roberts speaking.
1149
01:10:07,834 --> 01:10:09,583
Oh, hi. It's David speaking.
1150
01:10:09,625 --> 01:10:12,375
I just wanted to talk to David D'Amato.
1151
01:10:12,417 --> 01:10:15,334
Um, okay. I can't give
you his phone number.
1152
01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:16,708
I really can't even give you any
1153
01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:18,459
personal information on him.
1154
01:10:18,875 --> 01:10:20,041
Okay.
1155
01:10:20,459 --> 01:10:21,792
Do you know him?
1156
01:10:22,041 --> 01:10:24,375
- Yes, I do. Yes. - You're a friend of his?
1157
01:10:24,417 --> 01:10:27,208
Um, I'm not a friend, no, but I've, um...
1158
01:10:27,250 --> 01:10:28,917
I've been trying to get in touch with him
1159
01:10:28,959 --> 01:10:30,375
but have been struggling.
1160
01:10:31,083 --> 01:10:32,417
Okay, what I do is,
1161
01:10:32,708 --> 01:10:34,228
I have a way of leaving him a message.
1162
01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:37,459
I can't guarantee that
he's gonna call you back
1163
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:38,792
if he doesn't know you.
1164
01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:42,210
- Okay, thank you so much. Bye.
- You're welcome.
1165
01:10:48,834 --> 01:10:50,834
D'Amato never calls us back,
1166
01:10:50,875 --> 01:10:54,125
and we've got no other
way to contact him directly.
1167
01:10:56,375 --> 01:10:57,750
So annoying.
1168
01:11:03,541 --> 01:11:05,708
It's all right. There's still tomorrow.
1169
01:11:09,292 --> 01:11:12,708
But that night we get
a frustrating phone call.
1170
01:11:13,834 --> 01:11:16,334
My concern is that we can't
do more or less anything
1171
01:11:16,375 --> 01:11:18,292
we have planned for the rest of the trip.
1172
01:11:19,667 --> 01:11:21,667
I know. It's, like, it's fuckin' insane.
1173
01:11:23,541 --> 01:11:25,208
Okay. Bye-bye.
1174
01:11:27,959 --> 01:11:30,959
All the threats are
worrying our film's producer.
1175
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,834
He doesn't want us to risk provoking
1176
01:11:32,875 --> 01:11:35,625
any further legal action from D'Amato.
1177
01:11:36,083 --> 01:11:37,083
So he's saying,
1178
01:11:38,167 --> 01:11:39,310
"Well, what if you do everything
that you were gonna do,
1179
01:11:39,334 --> 01:11:40,934
except don't go and chase D'Amato down?"
1180
01:11:40,959 --> 01:11:42,667
And I'm like, "Well, anything we do
1181
01:11:42,708 --> 01:11:44,726
that lets D'Amato know
we're looking into him again."
1182
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:46,517
- Well, from now on in is that.
- Yeah, literally.
1183
01:11:46,541 --> 01:11:49,625
So he says, "Well, maybe
we cut the thing short, then.
1184
01:11:50,334 --> 01:11:51,541
Just go home."
1185
01:11:52,375 --> 01:11:54,625
I know it's like... It's fuckin' insane.
1186
01:12:04,459 --> 01:12:08,083
The next day we put
chasing D'Amato on hold.
1187
01:12:11,334 --> 01:12:13,167
I want to know how on Earth
1188
01:12:13,208 --> 01:12:15,708
a former deputy
principal pays for all this.
1189
01:12:16,208 --> 01:12:19,792
We can't find any sign he's
earning money from the videos,
1190
01:12:19,834 --> 01:12:22,459
but he's spending lots
of money making them.
1191
01:12:22,917 --> 01:12:26,417
He's flying up to ten people
into LA almost every month
1192
01:12:26,459 --> 01:12:28,250
from all over the world,
1193
01:12:28,292 --> 01:12:29,959
Putting them up in a nice hotel,
1194
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,417
paying them thousands in cash.
1195
01:12:32,834 --> 01:12:34,583
And that's not even taking into account
1196
01:12:34,625 --> 01:12:35,935
the cost of running tickle cells,
1197
01:12:35,959 --> 01:12:37,959
like the one in Muskegon.
1198
01:12:39,875 --> 01:12:42,041
Both David's parents are now deceased,
1199
01:12:42,083 --> 01:12:45,125
but his father's law firm is
one of Wall Street's biggest.
1200
01:12:45,792 --> 01:12:47,917
Maybe David is reaping the benefits
1201
01:12:47,959 --> 01:12:49,750
of his father's empire.
1202
01:12:52,167 --> 01:12:53,625
D'Amato & Lynch.
1203
01:12:53,667 --> 01:12:57,625
Oh, hi. I just had an inquiry, um,
1204
01:12:57,667 --> 01:13:01,167
about the relationship with, uh, um,
1205
01:13:01,208 --> 01:13:05,875
David D'Amato with the company,
the son of George D'Amato.
1206
01:13:05,917 --> 01:13:08,041
Is there someone I
could talk to about this?
1207
01:13:09,375 --> 01:13:14,041
No, I'm sorry. And Mr. D'Amato
has been gone for a long time.
1208
01:13:14,083 --> 01:13:19,459
Yeah, yeah. I'm looking into
the background to his son, David.
1209
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:21,393
And I'm just trying to
figure out whether he's got
1210
01:13:21,417 --> 01:13:24,500
any financial relationship
with the company still.
1211
01:13:24,541 --> 01:13:28,292
No, I... I really don't know.
I'm sorry, I can't help you.
1212
01:13:28,334 --> 01:13:32,375
Is there someone I could talk to at
D'Amato & Lynch to find out?
1213
01:13:33,167 --> 01:13:36,708
Mm. Not that I believe, no. I'm sorry.
1214
01:13:36,750 --> 01:13:39,292
Okay, but there must be
a way to find out, surely?
1215
01:13:39,708 --> 01:13:43,834
Um, not here. Thank you. -
1216
01:13:55,917 --> 01:13:59,500
I haven't seen David in quite a few years.
1217
01:13:59,541 --> 01:14:00,917
I have no knowledge of him now.
1218
01:14:01,541 --> 01:14:04,292
Not in many years have I
had any contact with him,
1219
01:14:04,334 --> 01:14:06,500
so I really couldn't give
you any information.
1220
01:14:06,541 --> 01:14:09,500
Yeah, he's been pretty
aggressive towards me,
1221
01:14:09,541 --> 01:14:12,334
so I'm just trying to figure
out what his motivations are...
1222
01:14:12,375 --> 01:14:14,625
Get away from him,
that's all I can tell you.
1223
01:14:15,375 --> 01:14:18,875
Really? - Yeah. Stay away from him.
1224
01:14:29,959 --> 01:14:31,959
This was every conversation I had
1225
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,708
with anyone even remotely
related to David D'Amato.
1226
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:38,917
"I can't tell you anything, but stay away."
1227
01:14:38,959 --> 01:14:41,334
But all I want to do is the opposite.
1228
01:14:41,375 --> 01:14:45,125
Someone has to confront
this bully, lawsuits or not.
1229
01:14:58,917 --> 01:15:03,000
Okay. So, this is the
car we're looking for.
1230
01:15:03,041 --> 01:15:06,875
It's a Mercedes Benz ML430.
1231
01:15:12,375 --> 01:15:15,541
David D'Amato has gone
out of his way to avoid us.
1232
01:15:15,583 --> 01:15:18,708
We figure if we wait outside
his apartment long enough,
1233
01:15:18,750 --> 01:15:20,875
eventually he'll have to leave.
1234
01:15:21,708 --> 01:15:24,041
So, that's a Chevrolet.
1235
01:15:25,041 --> 01:15:26,583
Oh, hang on a second, what's this?
1236
01:15:26,625 --> 01:15:27,667
What's this? What's this?
1237
01:15:28,834 --> 01:15:30,226
Okay, there's a car there. I can see it.
1238
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:32,541
Now, just in the edge. Hang on.
1239
01:15:38,417 --> 01:15:39,917
A Grand Cherokee.
1240
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:43,000
Well, maybe just a Cherokee.
1241
01:15:43,041 --> 01:15:45,083
But it's certainly not a Mercedes.
1242
01:15:50,917 --> 01:15:54,125
What's the time? - 2:44.
1243
01:15:54,167 --> 01:15:57,208
So we've been here for, like, four hours?
1244
01:16:01,125 --> 01:16:04,125
We've been waiting like this for days.
1245
01:16:05,375 --> 01:16:06,625
Come on.
1246
01:16:08,083 --> 01:16:09,683
And it seems like he'll never come out.
1247
01:16:11,625 --> 01:16:13,292
Okay. Let me just check. It's also...
1248
01:16:13,334 --> 01:16:18,708
It is the right type of
car. It's got white plates.
1249
01:16:19,250 --> 01:16:21,041
Hang on. Hang on. Okay.
1250
01:16:22,750 --> 01:16:24,583
It's him. It's him. It's him. It's him.
1251
01:16:27,708 --> 01:16:29,750
He's coming out. Just wait here.
1252
01:16:29,792 --> 01:16:32,167
Just sit here. All right, stay cool.
1253
01:16:33,292 --> 01:16:34,708
Okay, I'm gonna...
1254
01:16:41,667 --> 01:16:43,041
Okay, he's up here.
1255
01:16:50,459 --> 01:16:52,601
He's in the right-hand...
Is he in the left-hand lane?
1256
01:16:52,625 --> 01:16:54,041
Yeah.
1257
01:16:55,041 --> 01:16:56,459
He hasn't turned right.
1258
01:16:57,041 --> 01:16:58,459
He's in...
1259
01:16:58,500 --> 01:16:59,780
Whoa! You're one car behind him.
1260
01:16:59,875 --> 01:17:02,583
You're right in his... In his mirror now.
1261
01:17:20,583 --> 01:17:23,208
- I'm breathing heavily. - Yeah, same.
1262
01:17:24,417 --> 01:17:26,875
Okay. Okay. It's cool.
1263
01:17:26,917 --> 01:17:28,834
We're right behind him
now, so back off a bit,
1264
01:17:28,875 --> 01:17:30,625
so we're not gonna be too close.
1265
01:17:32,541 --> 01:17:34,167
Okay.
1266
01:17:35,292 --> 01:17:38,000
Just stay... Stay back. Stay back, David.
1267
01:17:38,041 --> 01:17:39,851
We're gonna have to
stop right behind him now.
1268
01:17:39,875 --> 01:17:42,035
You might have to take the
camera off the tripod, Dom.
1269
01:17:42,875 --> 01:17:44,834
Yeah, camera off tripod, please.
1270
01:17:46,292 --> 01:17:47,750
Starbucks? Okay, this is perfect.
1271
01:17:47,792 --> 01:17:49,083
Okay. He'll be a while.
1272
01:17:50,667 --> 01:17:53,227
Okay. I'm just gonna go and have
conversation when he comes out.
1273
01:17:54,750 --> 01:17:56,834
You've... I've got my phone if you need me.
1274
01:17:56,875 --> 01:17:58,083
Okay.
1275
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,875
I'm about to meet this man who's been
1276
01:18:11,917 --> 01:18:13,292
such a threatening figure
1277
01:18:13,334 --> 01:18:16,834
in so many lives, including my own,
1278
01:18:18,250 --> 01:18:21,750
and I have simply no idea what to expect.
1279
01:18:46,500 --> 01:18:49,708
He's coming out. - Mr. D'Amato.
1280
01:18:50,375 --> 01:18:53,292
Hi, it's Dave Farrier. - How are you?
1281
01:18:53,334 --> 01:18:55,000
Hey, how are you?
1282
01:18:56,041 --> 01:18:57,959
I don't like being followed.
1283
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,875
I just wanted to talk to you briefly.
1284
01:19:00,917 --> 01:19:03,250
- I don't want to talk to you.
- If I could.
1285
01:19:04,292 --> 01:19:07,041
Because I was just...
I'm just worried about...
1286
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,625
the legal letters you've sent me,
1287
01:19:11,667 --> 01:19:13,208
and I just wanted to know if we could
1288
01:19:13,250 --> 01:19:14,834
just talk about it face-to-face.
1289
01:19:14,875 --> 01:19:17,959
There is a legal issue
about me suing you right now.
1290
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:19,000
Is there?
1291
01:19:20,417 --> 01:19:22,625
Yes, you're in this
country on a tourist visa.
1292
01:19:23,041 --> 01:19:26,125
By doing anything related
to so-called journalism.
1293
01:19:26,167 --> 01:19:28,792
You're in violation of
the federal law here.
1294
01:19:28,834 --> 01:19:30,354
And you won't be back for a long time.
1295
01:19:31,417 --> 01:19:32,684
I'm on a journalism visa,
so I'm, I'm okay to be here.
1296
01:19:32,708 --> 01:19:34,334
I'm okay to be here. But I just...
1297
01:19:34,375 --> 01:19:36,667
Well, we're going to
let INS see about that.
1298
01:19:36,708 --> 01:19:38,417
Could we just talk a little bit about...
1299
01:19:38,459 --> 01:19:39,579
You shouldn't be doing that.
1300
01:19:40,708 --> 01:19:41,768
I just wanted to find out what's going on.
1301
01:19:41,792 --> 01:19:43,125
There's nothing that's going on.
1302
01:19:43,167 --> 01:19:46,750
Because the last heard I
was gonna be in a US court
1303
01:19:46,792 --> 01:19:47,959
and a New Zealand court,
1304
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,120
And you... and you may be...
1305
01:19:50,417 --> 01:19:51,208
And I really just wanted
to sort this out face-to-face.
1306
01:19:51,250 --> 01:19:52,334
You may be.
1307
01:19:52,375 --> 01:19:53,583
And I just want to sort of...
1308
01:19:53,625 --> 01:19:55,017
I mean, I'm not here to antagonize.
1309
01:19:55,041 --> 01:19:57,125
I just genuinely want
to be able to help out.
1310
01:19:57,167 --> 01:19:58,684
I would say you come quite a distance...
1311
01:19:58,708 --> 01:19:59,948
quite a distance to antagonize.
1312
01:20:00,125 --> 01:20:01,792
Well, you did say you were gonna sue me.
1313
01:20:01,834 --> 01:20:03,708
And I just wanna sort this issue out.
1314
01:20:06,500 --> 01:20:07,459
I will see you at the
right venue, believe me.
1315
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:09,041
Could you contact me if possible?
1316
01:20:33,459 --> 01:20:35,834
I went away feeling numb.
1317
01:20:35,875 --> 01:20:39,625
D'Amato was calm, going
instantly to legal threats,
1318
01:20:40,083 --> 01:20:43,959
which is what he's always
done, I suppose, as Terri,
1319
01:20:44,417 --> 01:20:45,834
as Jane,
1320
01:20:46,375 --> 01:20:47,708
as himself.
1321
01:20:53,875 --> 01:20:57,167
But after all this, I still
couldn't help but wonder
1322
01:20:57,208 --> 01:20:59,167
were we totally certain that D'Amato
1323
01:20:59,208 --> 01:21:02,792
really was Jane and
Debbie? Could we be wrong?
1324
01:21:03,792 --> 01:21:06,292
So we went back to where it all started,
1325
01:21:06,334 --> 01:21:07,792
those 300 domain names
1326
01:21:07,834 --> 01:21:10,667
connected to the Nederdietsen group.
1327
01:21:13,041 --> 01:21:15,708
And that's when things went a little crazy.
1328
01:21:16,208 --> 01:21:17,750
On one of those domain names
1329
01:21:17,792 --> 01:21:20,000
there was just a directory listing,
1330
01:21:20,041 --> 01:21:23,125
Including a folder called "My Documents".
1331
01:21:26,541 --> 01:21:28,167
It looks like D'Amato has accidentally
1332
01:21:28,208 --> 01:21:31,583
made hundreds of his private files public
1333
01:21:31,625 --> 01:21:33,041
on the Internet.
1334
01:21:38,625 --> 01:21:40,208
There's D'Amato's signature
1335
01:21:40,250 --> 01:21:43,292
on a Nederdietsen registration form.
1336
01:21:46,041 --> 01:21:48,917
There's also a contract with
the investigation company
1337
01:21:48,959 --> 01:21:50,583
he hired to look into us.
1338
01:21:51,041 --> 01:21:52,917
The address is exactly the same
1339
01:21:52,959 --> 01:21:55,250
as the address used by Jane O'Brien Media
1340
01:21:55,292 --> 01:21:58,541
when booking rooms at
the Hilton in New Zealand.
1341
01:22:01,334 --> 01:22:03,334
Then there are documents and signatures
1342
01:22:03,375 --> 01:22:06,208
for Debbie Kuhn and Jane O'Brien...
1343
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,834
who's also got her own credit card.
1344
01:22:11,834 --> 01:22:13,250
And it turns out that D'Amato
1345
01:22:13,292 --> 01:22:15,667
did finally get that law degree,
1346
01:22:15,708 --> 01:22:18,834
from Hofstra University in 2011.
1347
01:22:20,583 --> 01:22:23,834
He's also been telling the
boys to enter the United States
1348
01:22:23,875 --> 01:22:27,041
on a tourist visa, even
though they're working.
1349
01:22:28,541 --> 01:22:29,959
And it's finally clear to me
1350
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,541
how he funds his tickling empire.
1351
01:22:34,541 --> 01:22:36,167
As of late 2012,
1352
01:22:36,208 --> 01:22:39,500
he had almost six million
in his checking account.
1353
01:22:40,459 --> 01:22:43,500
And his living expenses
were being paid by a trust
1354
01:22:43,541 --> 01:22:45,583
established by his father.
1355
01:22:48,834 --> 01:22:51,708
He also inherited millions
from his mother's estate
1356
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:53,917
when she died in 2014.
1357
01:22:56,375 --> 01:22:58,541
It's all family money.
1358
01:23:01,875 --> 01:23:03,875
There are also lots of emails
1359
01:23:03,917 --> 01:23:06,417
sent from Jane O'Brien's legal department.
1360
01:23:07,500 --> 01:23:11,334
With this in mind, we
call in to see Romeo Salta,
1361
01:23:11,375 --> 01:23:13,875
The lawyer hired by Jane O'Brien Media
1362
01:23:13,917 --> 01:23:16,459
who's been sending
us all the legal threats.
1363
01:23:17,125 --> 01:23:19,625
We want to ask him about the correspondence
1364
01:23:19,667 --> 01:23:21,125
his office has sent us.
1365
01:23:22,750 --> 01:23:24,590
But I just thought you'd
be curious to see...
1366
01:23:25,292 --> 01:23:26,834
things been issued in LA County Court,
1367
01:23:26,875 --> 01:23:28,750
that's signed off here with your name.
1368
01:23:29,167 --> 01:23:32,167
There's another example of
that with that email address.
1369
01:23:32,208 --> 01:23:33,208
Yeah.
1370
01:23:34,750 --> 01:23:36,310
- To that, as opposed to you. I mean,
we got the one - from you originally,
1371
01:23:36,334 --> 01:23:37,810
Which we... It's fine. We
don't need to talk about that.
1372
01:23:37,834 --> 01:23:39,500
It's very simple. I only sent one.
1373
01:23:39,541 --> 01:23:40,625
Yeah.
1374
01:23:40,667 --> 01:23:41,750
Yeah.
1375
01:23:41,792 --> 01:23:43,250
- There's your answer. - Yeah.
1376
01:23:44,750 --> 01:23:46,625
I'll see what I can do to make those stop.
1377
01:23:46,667 --> 01:23:47,917
Have they stopped?
1378
01:23:49,417 --> 01:23:50,208
Uh, we haven't heard
anything for a little while.
1379
01:23:50,250 --> 01:23:51,750
They're listing your address
1380
01:23:51,792 --> 01:23:53,392
as their corporate headquarters, though.
1381
01:23:54,334 --> 01:23:56,334
- My address? - Yeah, if you look at...
1382
01:23:56,375 --> 01:23:57,459
Your office.
1383
01:23:57,500 --> 01:23:59,000
Janeobrienmedia.com,
1384
01:23:59,041 --> 01:24:01,375
your address is listed as
their corporate headquarters.
1385
01:24:01,417 --> 01:24:03,167
Yeah, but it's not my...
1386
01:24:03,208 --> 01:24:04,834
No, no. On their website at the bottom.
1387
01:24:04,875 --> 01:24:06,917
But it's not, um...
1388
01:24:06,959 --> 01:24:08,500
I don't know if it's...
1389
01:24:08,541 --> 01:24:09,726
It says "Office of Corporate Counsel
1390
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:11,208
and New York Headquarters."
1391
01:24:11,250 --> 01:24:12,500
Well, that's my address.
1392
01:24:12,541 --> 01:24:14,000
Yeah.
1393
01:24:14,041 --> 01:24:17,083
- But it's not their...
- It's crazy. But it's...
1394
01:24:17,125 --> 01:24:19,708
Um, I mean, is this weird to you?
1395
01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:20,976
That this person has taken on...
1396
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:22,541
It is. Of course, it's weird.
1397
01:24:27,834 --> 01:24:30,292
Almost every legal
letter we'd received from
1398
01:24:30,334 --> 01:24:31,875
from Salta was fake.
1399
01:24:31,917 --> 01:24:34,583
Like so many things connected to D'Amato,
1400
01:24:34,625 --> 01:24:36,000
they were all just lies,
1401
01:24:37,625 --> 01:24:40,000
lies to support his
addiction to tickling videos.
1402
01:24:43,167 --> 01:24:46,750
I started this journey
curious about a bizarre sport
1403
01:24:46,792 --> 01:24:49,000
called competitive endurance tickling,
1404
01:24:49,583 --> 01:24:53,041
but I now think this was
never even about tickling.
1405
01:24:55,875 --> 01:24:59,083
This is about power,
control and harassment.
1406
01:24:59,541 --> 01:25:01,834
It's about one person's twistedness
1407
01:25:01,875 --> 01:25:03,917
and how far that can go.
1408
01:25:03,959 --> 01:25:06,917
One person who's managed
to shelter himself with money
1409
01:25:06,959 --> 01:25:09,334
to keep his obsession going.
1410
01:25:09,875 --> 01:25:12,417
But now it's his life exposed.
1411
01:25:12,459 --> 01:25:15,208
For once, it's him on camera.
1412
01:25:20,625 --> 01:25:21,875
Before we leave America,
1413
01:25:23,375 --> 01:25:24,935
there's one last phone call I want to make.
1414
01:25:24,959 --> 01:25:27,041
It's a name we found in the documents,
1415
01:25:27,083 --> 01:25:30,875
one of David D'Amato's
last surviving family members.
1416
01:25:32,541 --> 01:25:33,750
Hello?
1417
01:25:33,792 --> 01:25:36,583
- Oh, hi. Is that Dorothy? - Yes.
1418
01:25:36,625 --> 01:25:38,459
Oh, hi. My name's David Farrier,
1419
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:41,583
I'm a journalist from New
Zealand. How are you?
1420
01:25:42,083 --> 01:25:43,667
- Okay. - Yeah, good.
1421
01:25:43,708 --> 01:25:45,393
Hey, sorry, it's probably
a bit of a strange call
1422
01:25:45,417 --> 01:25:46,667
to receive out of the blue,
1423
01:25:46,917 --> 01:25:51,208
but I'm doing a story
about, uh, David D'Amato.
1424
01:25:53,459 --> 01:25:56,875
- Oh, in what way? - Um...
1425
01:25:57,834 --> 01:25:59,959
He's been... It's the...
1426
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,334
He's sort of back to
the tickling stuff again.
1427
01:26:02,708 --> 01:26:04,000
Oh, he is?
1428
01:26:04,041 --> 01:26:07,541
- Yeah, he is. - Oh, God!
1429
01:26:08,541 --> 01:26:10,875
Well, I will tell you that,
1430
01:26:10,917 --> 01:26:14,792
um, I have no contact with him at all.
1431
01:26:15,959 --> 01:26:18,583
I mean, did you think all this
had sort of come to an end?
1432
01:26:19,083 --> 01:26:21,167
I did think, of course, it came to an end,
1433
01:26:21,208 --> 01:26:24,917
because he served time,
which I'm sure you know.
1434
01:26:24,959 --> 01:26:25,917
Mm.
1435
01:26:25,959 --> 01:26:28,250
But I don't understand, um...
1436
01:26:30,459 --> 01:26:33,750
I don't understand why
he went back to doing this.
1437
01:26:35,125 --> 01:26:38,792
I'm, like, in shock. How
long has he been doing this?
1438
01:26:40,541 --> 01:26:42,208
It's never stopped.
1439
01:26:46,792 --> 01:26:49,334
I think he has a split personality.
1440
01:26:49,375 --> 01:26:53,041
He's like that fine line
between genius and insanity.
1441
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:59,417
I don't know if he's gay or he's asexual,
1442
01:26:59,459 --> 01:27:03,125
but he's never had a
girlfriend that I ever knew of.
1443
01:27:04,708 --> 01:27:07,125
I asked my husband once, um,
1444
01:27:07,167 --> 01:27:10,292
if he would be upset if
he found out he was gay.
1445
01:27:10,334 --> 01:27:15,292
And he said that he would be
upset but he would get over it.
1446
01:27:15,334 --> 01:27:16,875
But he was an only child,
1447
01:27:16,917 --> 01:27:19,917
and, you know, he wanted grandchildren.
1448
01:27:22,334 --> 01:27:25,750
He had a very, very strange childhood.
1449
01:27:26,583 --> 01:27:31,083
The kids used to make
fun of him all the time.
1450
01:27:31,125 --> 01:27:33,750
And she used to... She... His mother.
1451
01:27:33,792 --> 01:27:35,875
He was very close to his mother.
1452
01:27:36,375 --> 01:27:39,000
And his mother was very protective of him.
1453
01:27:39,041 --> 01:27:44,292
She never let him ride a
bike or go skiing or do anything
1454
01:27:44,334 --> 01:27:46,875
because she was always
afraid that he would get hurt.
1455
01:27:47,667 --> 01:27:49,041
And from what I understand,
1456
01:27:49,083 --> 01:27:50,834
the kids used to come around the house,
1457
01:27:50,875 --> 01:27:52,292
and they used to make fun of him.
1458
01:27:52,334 --> 01:27:56,125
And once they locked
him in a locker in school.
1459
01:27:59,917 --> 01:28:01,750
And, you know, he was a teacher...
1460
01:28:02,875 --> 01:28:04,875
and they threw him out of school.
1461
01:28:05,375 --> 01:28:07,208
You know, I was afraid of him,
1462
01:28:07,667 --> 01:28:12,834
because I'm alone and,
um... Yeah, I was afraid of him.
1463
01:28:12,875 --> 01:28:16,208
So, you know, I'm afraid of him.