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When I tell people my story
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they don't believe it.
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00:00:52,928 --> 00:00:54,635
I guess I wouldn't believe the story
4
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,298
if someone else were telling it,
but, I'm telling it
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00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:01,308
and it's true, every word of it.
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It started when I was born,
56 years ago,
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00:01:06,191 --> 00:01:09,729
but the real story began
when I was 19 years old
8
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and I went to college.
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It was 1980.
It was the first day of school
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at Sullivan County Community College
up in the Catskills,
11
00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:28,035
about 110 miles from where I grew up.
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So, I drove up there alone.
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♪ I get the same old dreams ♪
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♪ Same time every night ♪
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♪ Fall to the ground and I wake up... ♪
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I used to have this really old car.
It was a Volvo.
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And it was a 1970 Volvo.
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Had like 130,000 miles on it.
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And the car was burgundy
and the hood was green.
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Actually,
the car was called the Old Bitch.
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♪ Since you been gone ♪
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♪ Since you been gone ♪
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♪ I'm out of my head... ♪
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But the Old Bitch got me there.
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Sullivan was a community college.
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This wasn't some longstanding
institution of higher learning.
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All these station wagons
are dropping kids off.
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I was nervous,
I'd just gotten to the school,
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I didn't know anybody.
I was a freshman.
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I was never the captain of the
football team in high school,
31
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so I was never really like popular.
32
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So, I'm walking around
trying to find where my dorm is.
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Meanwhile all these people
are coming up to me
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00:02:33,695 --> 00:02:35,060
saying "Hi, how are you?"
35
00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:41,984
"How was your summer?"
36
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"Mine was great.
How was yours?" "Super."
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Why are they asking me
how my summer was? I don't know.
38
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Everybody's being
extremely friendly to me
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and they're going
out of their way to do it.
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I don't mean just a 'hi',
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I mean, claps on the back
and high fives.
42
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And I was a little bit
bewildered by this
43
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because no one gets
this kind of a welcome
44
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on their first day at school.
45
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And girls were kissing me,
46
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like fully kissing me saying,
"I'm so glad you came back."
47
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And I was saying
'thank you' and 'hello' back
48
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but I had never been there
before and I didn't know them.
49
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It was bizarre.
50
00:03:19,866 --> 00:03:22,654
And the next thing I heard
from right behind me.
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"Welcome back. Eddy!"
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"Eddy! How are you? Eddy, hi!"
53
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I'm like, "My name's not Eddy.
I don't know
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what you're talking about.
I just got up here."
55
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"Sure, Eddy, you're really funny,
56
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you're really funny, real funny."
57
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I'm like, "I'm not Eddy.
I don't know who Eddy is."
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"Welcome back, Eddy",
they were all saying.
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I finally made it to this
dump of a dorm room.
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Before a minute had gone by...
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00:03:52,774 --> 00:03:55,607
..."Who now? Who now
is gonna come to find Eddy?"
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I had been at college
63
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the previous year with Eddy,
and I knew
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that he wasn't coming back to school.
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00:04:04,327 --> 00:04:06,068
As soon as this guy turned around, I...
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00:04:06,121 --> 00:04:08,829
I was, I was actually shaking.
67
00:04:08,874 --> 00:04:12,663
I was... I know all color
from my face dropped
68
00:04:12,711 --> 00:04:14,577
cos I knew it was his double.
69
00:04:14,629 --> 00:04:20,921
He had the same grin, the same hair,
the same expressions.
70
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It was his double.
71
00:04:23,096 --> 00:04:26,839
And I see this guy's face
and he's like...
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...just standing there.
73
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,560
The first thing out of my mouth
was "Were you adopted?"
74
00:04:35,609 --> 00:04:37,771
Er... and I was like, "Yes."
75
00:04:37,819 --> 00:04:42,404
I said, "ls your birthday July 12th?"
He said yes.
76
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I was like, "July 12th 1961."
77
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"Oh my God", I said,
"You're not gonna believe this."
78
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I said, "You have a twin brother.
You have a twin."
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00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:54,332
"Oh my God."
80
00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:57,119
I said, "Come with me."
81
00:04:59,633 --> 00:05:01,044
And the two of us are
crammed into this phone booth,
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shoulder to shoulder and you know,
we had to like,
83
00:05:03,804 --> 00:05:05,010
close the door of the phone booth.
84
00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:09,973
And I'm trying to put the coins in
85
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and they keep falling on the floor
86
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and Bobby's picking up the coins.
87
00:05:15,398 --> 00:05:16,934
And he calls this guy and he's like,
88
00:05:16,983 --> 00:05:18,439
"Hey, Eddy,
you're not gonna believe this,
89
00:05:18,485 --> 00:05:19,725
you're not gonna believe this.
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00:05:19,778 --> 00:05:21,018
Eddy, Eddy, you are
not gonna believe this."
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00:05:21,071 --> 00:05:24,689
This guy's more hysterical
than I am like weirded out.
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"Eddy, you are not
gonna believe this."
93
00:05:25,909 --> 00:05:27,195
So I was like,
"Give me the phone."
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00:05:27,244 --> 00:05:29,326
So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?"
"Yes."
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00:05:31,665 --> 00:05:34,703
But it was my voice
that said, "Yes."
96
00:05:34,751 --> 00:05:38,369
And I said, "Hi, Eddy,
my name is Robert Shafran
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00:05:38,421 --> 00:05:40,378
and, er...
I'm meeting all these people
98
00:05:40,423 --> 00:05:42,005
who say I'm you."
99
00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:44,166
And he said, "Uh-huh, yeah,
I've been getting some calls."
100
00:05:44,219 --> 00:05:48,338
I said, "Were you adopted?"
and he said, "Yes."
101
00:05:48,390 --> 00:05:50,506
And I said,
"When was your birthday?"
102
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"July 12th."
103
00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:54,347
And I said, "Do you know what
the name of the agency was?"
104
00:05:54,396 --> 00:05:56,979
And he said, "No, hold on."
105
00:05:59,818 --> 00:06:02,776
And I heard him go like, "Mom?"
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And he came back and he said,
"Louise Wise Services."
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00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:11,660
Sometimes when you
are just having a dream,
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00:06:11,705 --> 00:06:14,072
you know this can't be real,
this can't be real.
109
00:06:14,124 --> 00:06:16,491
But you know there's nothing
you can do to stop it,
110
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start it, change it,
you just go with it
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and that's what I was doing.
112
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I just wanted to see
what was gonna happen next.
113
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And I'm like,
"Let's go. Let's go meet Eddy."
114
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So we got into the Old Bitch.
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00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,097
It was about 9 o'clock at night
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and it's about a two-hour ride.
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And we were speeding on Route 17.
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We were going 100 miles per hour,
perhaps more.
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We were speeding.
120
00:06:47,949 --> 00:06:49,815
We're driving as fast as
this car would go.
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It was shaking.
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00:06:52,954 --> 00:06:55,742
And we got pulled over by a
New York State trooper.
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And as I roll down my window
there's this gigantic cop
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with like the sunglasses
even though it's night time.
125
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In the big hat.
126
00:07:09,179 --> 00:07:13,093
He said, "You know,
I clocked you at 88 in a 50.
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00:07:13,141 --> 00:07:16,008
"Son, you better have
a really good reason."
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And I was like,
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"Well, Officer,
you're never gonna believe this."
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The two of us are like
yelling at this guy.
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"You, you don't know,
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this guy,
this guy has a twin brother,
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00:07:25,987 --> 00:07:28,854
he was adopted and we're
going to Long Island to go see..."
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00:07:28,907 --> 00:07:32,650
And, and, and the guy was,
"Yeah, right." You know.
135
00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:34,784
"Here's, here's your ticket
have a good day."
136
00:07:37,332 --> 00:07:39,994
And on to Long Island we went.
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So, we got there.
138
00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,801
But it's like,
the middle of the night.
139
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And it's this really quiet neighborhood.
140
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So, we get out of the car.
141
00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:02,854
And walk up this little path
to the house.
142
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And the lights were on in the house.
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And I reached out
to knock on the door
144
00:08:12,659 --> 00:08:15,742
and as I reached out
to knock on the door it opens.
145
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And there I am.
146
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His eyes were my eyes
and my eyes were his eyes
147
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and it's true.
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They looked exactly alike.
149
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,392
They're duplicates of each other.
150
00:08:40,437 --> 00:08:42,849
There was no doubt in my mind
that they were twins.
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He's going, "Oh my God."
I'm going, "Oh my God."
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00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,188
He's going, "Holy crap."
I'm going, "Holy crap."
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They just looked at each other
and they moved...
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Every time Bobby moved his head,
Eddy moved
155
00:08:55,326 --> 00:08:58,990
and then Eddy would move
and then Bobby would move,
156
00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:01,201
like, like they were
looking at a mirror.
157
00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:03,081
It was the weirdest thing.
158
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It was like the world faded away,
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00:09:08,339 --> 00:09:11,172
and it was just me and Eddy.
160
00:09:15,472 --> 00:09:20,342
So, I'm in the newsroom,
it's the middle of a busy day,
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00:09:20,393 --> 00:09:22,100
we got a call from somebody
162
00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:24,603
who says they have an
amazing story to tell us,
163
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we are not gonna believe this story,
164
00:09:27,734 --> 00:09:30,897
and my first reaction,
"Ah, it's a hoax."
165
00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:34,939
So, I told our reporter,
"I wanna rent a plane."
166
00:09:34,991 --> 00:09:36,902
In those days we had
enough money to do this.
167
00:09:36,951 --> 00:09:41,240
"I wanna rent a plane, I wanna
see these two kids face to face
168
00:09:41,289 --> 00:09:42,529
or I don't believe this."
169
00:09:45,794 --> 00:09:48,126
We flew the journalist up
to Sullivan Community College
170
00:09:48,171 --> 00:09:51,709
and he called me and he said,
"Howie, it's true, it's true."
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00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:57,882
And I remember saying,
"Oh my God, this is a great story.
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00:09:57,931 --> 00:10:01,970
"This is a memorable
heart-warming story."
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00:10:02,018 --> 00:10:06,228
And then the story went from being
amazing to incredible, okay,
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00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:07,762
from amazing to incredible.
175
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I was on the New York Subway.
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Quite late at night.
177
00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:24,197
Read an article about two boys
who found each other.
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00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:26,081
That were twins separated at birth
179
00:10:26,126 --> 00:10:27,287
and found each other
180
00:10:27,335 --> 00:10:29,918
at Sullivan County Community College.
181
00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,796
There was no picture,
but the story was fascinating.
182
00:10:35,885 --> 00:10:40,129
I came home, and went to sleep.
183
00:10:40,181 --> 00:10:42,718
My mother came into the room
184
00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:45,850
and said, "Wake up, wake up,
I have to show you something."
185
00:10:45,895 --> 00:10:48,011
And she shows me a newspaper
186
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:52,482
with a picture of two boys
187
00:10:52,527 --> 00:10:55,144
and I had to like, focus
and I looked at the photograph
188
00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:57,233
and I said, "Is that David?"
189
00:10:58,616 --> 00:11:02,200
And she's like,
"No, but look at the hands."
190
00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:09,954
And I was like, "Holy mackerel.
This is beyond amazing."
191
00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:13,416
It was a picture
in the newspaper of two guys,
192
00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:16,582
in the "Post" and
I picked up the picture
193
00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:18,341
and I looked at it,
194
00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:20,502
and I was like in shock,
195
00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:24,264
cos the two guys in the "Post"
looked exactly, exactly
196
00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:28,268
like, like my friend David.
I stared at it.
197
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,600
And it wasn't even just
the look on their face.
198
00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:32,434
It was the way that they
were holding their hands.
199
00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:37,732
They have these big meaty hands.
And David always had this,
200
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:39,896
these hands that
looked like baseball mitts.
201
00:11:39,949 --> 00:11:46,116
And when I saw their hands,
I just knew that this is David.
202
00:11:52,587 --> 00:11:54,373
It was just a normal day.
203
00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:56,754
I got to school,
ran into my buddy Alan.
204
00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:59,632
He said,
"David, take a look at this."
205
00:11:59,677 --> 00:12:02,135
And he's got a copy
of the "New York Post".
206
00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:04,296
And, er... he opens it up
207
00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:06,215
and says, "Look at this.
208
00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:07,678
Look, look familiar?"
Something to that effect.
209
00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:10,185
And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure."
210
00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:15,015
But then we looked at it
a little bit more closely.
211
00:12:18,321 --> 00:12:19,561
It was an article, it said,
212
00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:22,902
"Twins reunited after more than 19 years."
213
00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:26,444
And it had a picture of two
of what looked like me.
214
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:31,828
It all started to sink in.
215
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:34,994
"Holy shit, oh my God.
216
00:12:35,046 --> 00:12:37,629
Do you?
This is un... this is not believable,
217
00:12:37,674 --> 00:12:40,006
this is, this is unbelievable.
Wow!
218
00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:42,088
This is big, this is serious,
219
00:12:42,136 --> 00:12:45,003
this is just not some kind
of crazy coincidence.
220
00:12:45,056 --> 00:12:47,297
This is not a minor resemblance.
221
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:49,216
This is real, this is happening,
222
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:50,885
this is really, really serious."
223
00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:55,267
I ditched classes and got home.
224
00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:57,432
My mother was waiting
at the kitchen table
225
00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:58,520
with a cup of coffee.
226
00:12:58,569 --> 00:13:00,685
And I said, "Mom, you see this?"
227
00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:04,652
She said, "You see this?"
And we kinda exchanged newspapers.
228
00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:07,409
It had,
"...born Long Island Jewish Hospital."
229
00:13:07,453 --> 00:13:09,945
July 12th, 1961 ."
230
00:13:09,998 --> 00:13:13,662
And it was Louise Wise adoption agency.
231
00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:16,668
I mean, I always knew growing
up that I was adopted.
232
00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:18,829
My parents were always
open about it.
233
00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:21,999
But it said Eddy Galland
of New Hyde Park, Long Island,
234
00:13:22,051 --> 00:13:24,292
Robert Shafran of Scarsdale, New York.
235
00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:25,801
I remember it said,
236
00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:28,760
"Son of prominent Scarsdale
physician Mort Shafran"
237
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:30,924
and, er... my first thought, I said,
238
00:13:30,977 --> 00:13:32,968
"He's got the wealthy family.
239
00:13:33,021 --> 00:13:38,141
That SOB's probably driving a Benz!
He got a doctor!"
240
00:13:39,736 --> 00:13:41,727
And I remember being with
David in the kitchen.
241
00:13:42,947 --> 00:13:45,154
We were like, really nervous.
242
00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:48,237
I mean we were, you know,
jumping around, it was...
243
00:13:48,286 --> 00:13:51,870
You know, we were 19 years old.
I mean this was surreal.
244
00:13:51,914 --> 00:13:56,408
And David picked up the phone
and he called Information,
245
00:13:56,461 --> 00:13:59,249
and he reached Eddy's mom.
246
00:13:59,297 --> 00:14:01,163
And I said,
"Hi, is Eddy home?"
247
00:14:01,215 --> 00:14:04,128
She says,
"No, who's calling, please?"
248
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:05,713
And I thought, "okay,
249
00:14:05,762 --> 00:14:07,127
now I've gotta go into this
whole thing on the phone."
250
00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:11,515
I said,
"Well, my name is David Kellman,
251
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,551
and I was born July 12th 1961
252
00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:16,720
and I'm looking at a newspaper
253
00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:21,313
and, er... basically I think
I'm looking at two of me.
254
00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:23,398
I think I might be the third."
255
00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:26,234
And I think she
dropped the phone, actually.
256
00:14:26,282 --> 00:14:29,775
And I remember
hearing her voice over the phone,
257
00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:32,159
"Oh my God,
they're coming out of the woodwork!"
258
00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:44,836
It was a miracle.
259
00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:47,251
The first time that
the boys met together,
260
00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:50,466
the three together
was at my house.
261
00:14:50,515 --> 00:14:52,005
And the three of them ended up
262
00:14:52,058 --> 00:14:55,767
like puppies wrestling on the floor.
263
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:59,555
It was the most incredible...
264
00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:01,348
it was the most incredible thing.
265
00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:03,267
They belonged to each other.
266
00:15:05,196 --> 00:15:09,235
They knew each other.
There was no formal introduction.
267
00:15:09,283 --> 00:15:12,571
I mean, when you meet
somebody for the first time
268
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:16,614
you don't end up rolling around
on the floor with them.
269
00:15:16,666 --> 00:15:20,409
It was truly not fully believable.
270
00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:22,498
Even though it was happening
it was still surreal.
271
00:15:22,547 --> 00:15:24,413
You think you're dreaming.
272
00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:27,082
You're looking and
you're still "Oh my God."
273
00:15:27,135 --> 00:15:28,842
You look at the other one,
"Oh my God."
274
00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:30,843
And then you realize
that they're looking at you
275
00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:32,595
or everybody else
is looking at you too.
276
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,177
To have all three of them
in the house at one time...
277
00:15:36,727 --> 00:15:39,264
it... it was really madness.
278
00:15:40,731 --> 00:15:44,144
My emotions were shock,
shock and more shock.
279
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:48,733
I mean, I can't explain it,
280
00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:51,364
I haven't got the terminology.
281
00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:55,785
One of our reporters came
running over to me and said
282
00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:58,037
"You're not gonna believe this,
283
00:15:58,082 --> 00:16:02,326
you are not gonna believe
the call we just got.
284
00:16:02,378 --> 00:16:04,836
You know the two kids
on the front page today?
285
00:16:04,881 --> 00:16:07,213
Well, there's a third."
286
00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:09,841
They even moved the same way.
287
00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:13,795
All of us just sat back
288
00:16:13,848 --> 00:16:18,718
and watched three separate
lives becoming one.
289
00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:22,224
The way I put it was
290
00:16:22,273 --> 00:16:24,731
I looked more like Eddy
than I did David,
291
00:16:24,775 --> 00:16:26,982
and more like David
than I did Eddy,
292
00:16:27,028 --> 00:16:30,020
and more like either of them
than they did like each other.
293
00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:31,813
Does that make sense?
294
00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:43,166
And then we started
comparing notes.
295
00:16:43,211 --> 00:16:45,748
What do 19-year-olds compare?
296
00:16:47,507 --> 00:16:53,378
Booze, cigarettes, food,
women, music, cars.
297
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:56,763
I had just brought a brand new
Mercury Capri, which I loved.
298
00:16:56,807 --> 00:17:01,597
And Bobby had this,
Maroon beat up old Volvo
299
00:17:01,646 --> 00:17:03,762
with cracked leather seats
and I'm thinking,
300
00:17:03,814 --> 00:17:08,604
"Hmm, son of a prominent
Scarsdale physician, huh?"
301
00:17:10,404 --> 00:17:12,736
I think it was Eddy who said
302
00:17:12,782 --> 00:17:14,398
right at the beginning,
303
00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:19,866
"I don't know if this will turn
out to be great or terrible."
304
00:17:19,914 --> 00:17:24,533
So, there was always a question
mark, a big question mark,
305
00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:28,078
about where the story
eventually was going.
306
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,168
We didn't realize from then on
307
00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:34,335
just how much things
were going to change.
308
00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:36,594
'Now one of the most remarkable
stories I've seen in some time:
309
00:17:36,639 --> 00:17:37,674
a story about triplets.
310
00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:44,553
Eddy and Robert and David
reunited after 19 years.'
311
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:46,846
'We have a story about triplets
that gives new meaning
312
00:17:46,899 --> 00:17:48,389
to the phrase long lost brothers.'
313
00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:53,687
We went on everything.
Everything.
314
00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:55,321
'You're not seeing double
315
00:17:55,366 --> 00:17:57,107
you are perhaps in a moment
going to be seeing triple.'
316
00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:58,445
'I don't know who's who here.
317
00:17:58,494 --> 00:18:02,783
Come on out here, gentlemen,
come on out.'
318
00:18:02,832 --> 00:18:04,448
You just had to stop
what you're doing
319
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:08,835
and watch them
on every different show.
320
00:18:08,879 --> 00:18:11,416
It became a circus,
it became a media circus.
321
00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:14,332
Talk about viral, I mean this was...
it was viral even then.
322
00:18:14,385 --> 00:18:16,672
'You guys have been on the
front page of every newspaper
323
00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,928
in the world.'
'True.'
324
00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:22,765
"People Magazine", "Time Magazine",
325
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:26,053
even the "New York Times",
"Good Housekeeping".
326
00:18:28,232 --> 00:18:29,518
'David, let's begin with you.
327
00:18:29,567 --> 00:18:30,682
Which one's David, I keep forgetting?'
328
00:18:30,735 --> 00:18:32,100
- 'You're Edward?'
- 'Right.'
329
00:18:32,153 --> 00:18:33,393
'Okay, who are you, are you David?'
330
00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:34,732
- 'I'm Bobby.'
- 'Oh, you're... I'm sorry.
331
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,397
You're Robert, all right.
Robert and Edward.'
332
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,657
'Come on.'
333
00:18:42,872 --> 00:18:46,661
It was a fairy tale story.
334
00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,168
And people need to hear
wonderful things.
335
00:18:50,212 --> 00:18:52,203
'These three young men,
336
00:18:52,256 --> 00:18:55,419
they're all seated in the same position.'
337
00:18:57,887 --> 00:19:00,720
It was kind of amazing.
They really were strangers.
338
00:19:00,765 --> 00:19:01,971
They looked identical to each other
339
00:19:02,016 --> 00:19:03,802
but they were strangers, right?
340
00:19:03,851 --> 00:19:05,216
You know, they really
didn't know one another.
341
00:19:05,269 --> 00:19:08,307
But their behaviors
were so similar.
342
00:19:08,356 --> 00:19:10,973
'Our lives are parallel
to a phenomenal degree.
343
00:19:11,025 --> 00:19:12,936
It's, it's ridiculous.'
344
00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:14,475
'We're all the same,
345
00:19:14,528 --> 00:19:15,814
as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'
346
00:19:15,863 --> 00:19:17,445
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'
347
00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:18,776
'We always talk at the same time.'
348
00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:20,656
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'
349
00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:22,032
'We all like Chinese food.'
350
00:19:22,078 --> 00:19:22,863
'You were all
wrestlers at one time?'
351
00:19:22,912 --> 00:19:24,243
'Yes.'
352
00:19:24,288 --> 00:19:25,528
'You all smoke the
same brand of cigarettes?'
353
00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:26,946
'Yes.'
354
00:19:26,999 --> 00:19:28,615
'What kind of
cigarettes do you smoke?'
355
00:19:28,668 --> 00:19:29,658
'Marlboro.'
356
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:31,041
'Do you all smoke the same brand?'
357
00:19:31,087 --> 00:19:32,498
'Yes.'
358
00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:35,208
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- 'Yes.'
359
00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:37,123
'Yeah, I was curious,
how's their taste in women,
360
00:19:37,176 --> 00:19:39,713
is it similar?'
'Yes. Definitely.'
361
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:43,671
It seems they all liked
older women.
362
00:19:43,724 --> 00:19:45,840
'Somebody said
you all liked older women.'
363
00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:47,349
'Well...'
364
00:19:51,232 --> 00:19:53,143
'Another astonishing coincidence
365
00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:56,355
is that each of the brothers
grew up with an adoptive sister,
366
00:19:56,404 --> 00:19:59,237
all the girls now 21 years old.'
367
00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:03,817
'I can't get over it, I tell you.'
368
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:05,610
'An extraordinary string of coincidences
369
00:20:05,663 --> 00:20:06,698
you all have to agree, right?'
370
00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:07,987
'It's beautiful.'
371
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,326
'You say you love each other,
372
00:20:09,375 --> 00:20:11,082
but you're only known each
other for such a short time.'
373
00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:12,583
'Doesn't matter,
I've known them my whole life.'
374
00:20:12,628 --> 00:20:14,460
'How long did it take
for you to have that feeling?'
375
00:20:14,505 --> 00:20:15,836
'Like that.'
376
00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:20,462
They were more like clones
377
00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:24,095
than they were like brothers.
378
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:27,929
It was just absolutely
astounding because they grew up
379
00:20:27,977 --> 00:20:30,344
it would appear to be
pretty different households.
380
00:20:35,776 --> 00:20:39,485
We'd been adopted
by a blue-collar family,
381
00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:43,023
a middle-class family
and a more affluent family.
382
00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:51,285
Bobby's parents, Bobby's father
was a medical doctor.
383
00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:55,410
And his mother was an attorney.
384
00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:57,329
So they were very well educated
and they were living
385
00:20:57,381 --> 00:21:02,547
in one of the most prestigious
areas of the country.
386
00:21:05,306 --> 00:21:10,176
Eddy's father was a teacher,
he had a college education.
387
00:21:10,227 --> 00:21:13,390
And they lived in what
would be considered
388
00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,518
a middle-class neighborhood.
389
00:21:18,819 --> 00:21:25,236
My family on paper
were the least educated,
390
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:30,199
they were immigrants,
English was a second language to them,
391
00:21:30,247 --> 00:21:32,454
they had a little store,
392
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:37,415
they were the more blue-collar family.
393
00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:39,545
Hmm, but my father was just
394
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:44,335
this incredibly generous warm guy.
395
00:21:44,386 --> 00:21:48,220
David's father, Richard was, uh...
was larger than life.
396
00:21:51,852 --> 00:21:53,968
If you could imagine
this guy was a big guy,
397
00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:57,685
with a big cigar always
hanging out of his mouth.
398
00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:02,315
We referred to him as 'bubala'.
399
00:22:02,363 --> 00:22:04,229
He was Bubala.
400
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:07,023
If you know Yiddish,
'bubala' it's like love,
401
00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,239
it's hugging and it's kissing.
402
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:12,403
We spent more time
at David's house
403
00:22:12,456 --> 00:22:14,743
than any place else.
404
00:22:14,792 --> 00:22:19,537
Bubala celebrated us
like no other person.
405
00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:21,420
He said, "I have two more sons."
406
00:22:28,097 --> 00:22:29,633
When the boys found each other
407
00:22:29,682 --> 00:22:32,470
it just sort of happened
408
00:22:32,518 --> 00:22:33,974
then and there.
409
00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:35,805
Here is this wonderful story
410
00:22:35,855 --> 00:22:37,596
and that's it.
411
00:22:37,648 --> 00:22:40,481
Nobody questioned what was going on
412
00:22:40,526 --> 00:22:42,233
except the parents of course.
413
00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:48,815
When the families met up the first time
414
00:22:48,868 --> 00:22:51,826
there was great anger in all of them
415
00:22:51,871 --> 00:22:55,330
about the fact that the parents
had never been told
416
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:57,365
that there were two other children.
417
00:22:59,753 --> 00:23:03,587
They didn't tell us a word
when we were adopting.
418
00:23:03,632 --> 00:23:05,794
We knew nothing about the other two
419
00:23:05,843 --> 00:23:10,303
until, er... the boys met at, at school,
420
00:23:10,347 --> 00:23:12,554
that was 20 years later.
421
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:18,178
The first thing that
hit me was what they lost.
422
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:21,689
I believe they were six months old
when they were separated.
423
00:23:21,734 --> 00:23:25,398
If you imagine those
three little bodies lying together
424
00:23:25,446 --> 00:23:31,692
and suddenly the coldness
of being alone in a crib.
425
00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:36,237
It's a terrible deprivation.
426
00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:42,372
I remember being told by my mother
427
00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:46,380
when I was a baby that I would
slam my head against the wall,
428
00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:48,382
I would basically knock myself out.
429
00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:50,964
My mother said that
I would bang my head
430
00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:52,424
on the inside of the crib...
431
00:23:55,351 --> 00:24:00,221
...and I would hold my breath
until I passed out.
432
00:24:00,272 --> 00:24:05,358
I believe it was absolutely
separation anxiety
433
00:24:09,323 --> 00:24:12,816
All of us had been adopted
from Louise Wise Services.
434
00:24:12,868 --> 00:24:14,859
'Louise Wise Services,
435
00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:19,327
the New York institution
founded back in 1916
436
00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:21,207
overseen by a board of directors
437
00:24:21,251 --> 00:24:22,958
drawn from New York City's
438
00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:25,916
social, financial and political elite.'
439
00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:30,459
They were the
pre-eminent adoption agency
440
00:24:30,511 --> 00:24:34,755
on the East Coast for
Jewish babies in particular.
441
00:24:34,807 --> 00:24:37,299
That was the place to go.
442
00:24:37,351 --> 00:24:39,683
What we have felt
443
00:24:39,728 --> 00:24:41,639
at Louise Wise Services
444
00:24:41,689 --> 00:24:43,145
where I have been active
445
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:46,182
for a great long time,
446
00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:49,227
is that adoptive parents should be told
447
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:53,819
as much about the background
of a child as is reasonable.
448
00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:57,826
Our parents they, they,
they wanted answers, they were angry.
449
00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:01,830
And they arranged a meeting
and they... the six of them
450
00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:06,870
went in to Louise Wise Agency
to try to get some answers
451
00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,914
in terms of piecing together
what happened.
452
00:25:21,395 --> 00:25:27,732
There was a meeting with
the top brass at the agency.
453
00:25:27,776 --> 00:25:29,517
And they were asked,
454
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:32,688
"Is it true that you separated
these boys at birth?"
455
00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:41,450
And they said, "Yes, we did."
456
00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:46,667
Why?
457
00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,796
How could you not tell us?
458
00:25:50,841 --> 00:25:53,549
What did you do?
459
00:25:53,594 --> 00:25:55,926
Why and how could you?
460
00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,549
They said the reason was
461
00:26:00,601 --> 00:26:06,313
because it was hard to place
three children in one home.
462
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:08,393
The parents had been told that
463
00:26:08,442 --> 00:26:11,525
it was in our best interests
that we'd been split up.
464
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:16,064
That not every parent
would welcome triplets,
465
00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:20,986
and that triplets
would be difficult to place.
466
00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:26,704
Which... I think at that moment
my father blew his stack.
467
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,835
And just said,
"We would've taken all three.
468
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,841
There's no question."
And he was furious.
469
00:26:34,885 --> 00:26:37,377
Well,
the meeting came to an end.
470
00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:41,381
They all left.
471
00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:44,516
They felt like they had gotten nothing.
472
00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:47,929
And my father realized that he
had left his umbrella in there.
473
00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:55,812
And he went back to get the umbrella.
474
00:26:58,992 --> 00:27:01,950
And he walked into the room
475
00:27:01,995 --> 00:27:05,909
to see them breaking open
a bottle of champagne...
476
00:27:08,585 --> 00:27:12,123
and toasting each other as if
they had dodged a bullet.
477
00:27:15,342 --> 00:27:22,885
They looked like they'd
just missed getting hurt
478
00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:25,516
or killed or what have you.
479
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:30,226
It was a, er...
that was memorable.
480
00:27:31,942 --> 00:27:34,980
All of our parents came
away from that meeting angry.
481
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:44,118
The parents went to some pretty
prestigious New York law firms
482
00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:48,452
and initially they were met
with a lot of enthusiasm,
483
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:52,209
and, er... invariably within
a short period of time
484
00:27:52,254 --> 00:27:55,121
were told, er... there's a conflict
485
00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:57,757
and they could not take the case.
486
00:27:57,801 --> 00:28:01,419
They said,
"We have a number of associates
487
00:28:01,471 --> 00:28:04,884
who are trying to adopt
through Louise Wise,
488
00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:08,972
and we don't wanna ruin their chances."
489
00:28:09,021 --> 00:28:11,388
So, that lawsuit was out.
490
00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:21,113
We were too happy
being together to be that angry.
491
00:28:21,158 --> 00:28:25,368
We didn't understand it and
to a degree we almost didn't care.
492
00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:30,698
Our heads were in the clouds,
493
00:28:30,751 --> 00:28:32,583
we knew our parents were pissed off
494
00:28:32,628 --> 00:28:35,962
but it was almost like,
"Well, that's our parents' thing to do"
495
00:28:36,006 --> 00:28:38,043
while we were out partying.
496
00:28:39,301 --> 00:28:41,212
♪ Friday night and everyone's moving... ♪
497
00:28:41,261 --> 00:28:45,050
This was New York
in 1980.
498
00:28:45,098 --> 00:28:46,680
Drugs were different,
people were different,
499
00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:48,762
sex was different,
music was different.
500
00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:53,145
Phew! We just, we just took
advantage of all those things.
501
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:56,057
Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll.
502
00:28:56,109 --> 00:28:59,943
♪ We're the kids in America, whoa... ♪
503
00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:02,104
They were running amok
in New York, I'll say.
504
00:29:04,201 --> 00:29:09,241
Studio 54 was cooking.
Limelight. Copacabana.
505
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:12,247
They were hitting them all.
506
00:29:12,292 --> 00:29:14,875
New York loved us.
New York loved us.
507
00:29:17,881 --> 00:29:20,623
All the newspapers
were following the boys around
508
00:29:20,676 --> 00:29:21,757
no matter where we went.
509
00:29:23,804 --> 00:29:26,421
I remember one morning walking in
510
00:29:26,473 --> 00:29:31,388
and my mother throwing
the "New York Post" at me,
511
00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,224
at the kitchen table saying,
"I gotta look at the paper
512
00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,810
to find out where you were last night?"
513
00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:42,445
The boys thought
they were gonna be stars,
514
00:29:42,489 --> 00:29:47,404
and actually they did star
in one movie.
515
00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:50,695
Walking down the street,
all of a sudden we hear,
516
00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:53,785
"Guys, guys, you're the guys!
517
00:29:53,834 --> 00:29:55,370
Could you please be in our movie?
518
00:29:55,419 --> 00:29:56,454
Please be in my movie."
519
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:06,461
We didn't know who she was,
and she was, she was Madonna.
520
00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:09,380
The stood on the side and ogled her.
521
00:30:09,433 --> 00:30:11,424
Pretty soon we got
an apartment together,
522
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,764
the triplets apartment.
523
00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:16,303
The triplet's apartment.
524
00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:21,726
Hmm, it's like if you had
the most bachelor apartment
525
00:30:21,778 --> 00:30:23,018
times three.
526
00:30:23,071 --> 00:30:24,857
The liquor store
used to deliver the liquor.
527
00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:31,861
At one point Eddy had appendicitis.
528
00:30:31,913 --> 00:30:33,745
He had no insurance.
529
00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:37,374
And so he checked
into the hospital as Bobby.
530
00:30:37,419 --> 00:30:39,956
And had his appendix taken out.
As Bobby.
531
00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:42,963
I hope to this day Bobby's
appendix stays pretty healthy.
532
00:30:44,384 --> 00:30:46,716
Between working together,
playing together,
533
00:30:46,762 --> 00:30:49,094
going out together,
going on dates together,
534
00:30:49,139 --> 00:30:50,595
living together,
535
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,056
from the time we met till...
well till later
536
00:30:56,104 --> 00:30:59,847
there was nothing,
nothing that could keep us apart.
537
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,109
I feel like I was
the first serious girlfriend.
538
00:31:04,738 --> 00:31:07,856
Initially I couldn't really tell them apart
539
00:31:07,908 --> 00:31:09,273
and I would bump into them
540
00:31:09,326 --> 00:31:11,112
and I wasn't quite sure
541
00:31:11,161 --> 00:31:14,449
which one I was going out with, so...
542
00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:19,584
Bob has this very raw, natural,
type of intelligence
543
00:31:19,628 --> 00:31:21,869
that I think I was attracted too.
544
00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:27,838
I always thought David
was the best, right,
545
00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,251
of the three of them.
546
00:31:29,304 --> 00:31:31,420
I, I've said it before, you know,
547
00:31:31,473 --> 00:31:33,965
"I got the pick of the litter."
548
00:31:34,017 --> 00:31:38,432
Without a doubt,
Eddy was the, er... handsomest
549
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,643
of all the three triplets, you know.
550
00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:43,432
Of course, I'm partial
551
00:31:43,485 --> 00:31:46,102
but, you know, I adored him.
552
00:31:48,407 --> 00:31:53,322
When I met him,
he was the last holdout.
553
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:58,661
The Casanova of
the three and, er... I said,
554
00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:01,826
"Oh boy, this guy's
a real bachelor, like player."
555
00:32:04,256 --> 00:32:07,465
But he was so warm in his smile
556
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:11,173
and he had wonderful
beautiful hands, soft hands
557
00:32:11,221 --> 00:32:13,883
and when I shook
his hand I mean, I just, I...
558
00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:15,548
You know,
I just fell in love with him.
559
00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:22,434
I'm from a big colorful
Irish catholic family
560
00:32:22,482 --> 00:32:24,723
and he was a Jewish guy.
561
00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:27,484
When he came to the house
for the first time,
562
00:32:27,529 --> 00:32:31,693
he looked at my dad and he said,
563
00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:34,904
"I don't know if you know this,
Mr. Shanley,
564
00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:37,240
I've been seeing Brenda
every night pretty much
565
00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:38,905
since the first day I met her."
566
00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:40,664
And I thought, "Oh my God,
567
00:32:40,709 --> 00:32:43,167
my dad knows that, you know,
we're together every night."
568
00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:46,920
And my dad just sort of,
you know, looked at me like, "okay"
569
00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:48,080
and that was Eddy.
570
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:50,875
- 'I do.'
- 'I do.'
571
00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:02,636
'We love you.'
572
00:33:11,781 --> 00:33:13,237
Everyone loved him.
573
00:33:14,826 --> 00:33:17,864
If there was a scale,
Bobby would be reserved,
574
00:33:17,913 --> 00:33:19,369
David would be middle
575
00:33:19,414 --> 00:33:22,702
and Eddy was just the loveable, mushy,
576
00:33:22,751 --> 00:33:24,867
huggable, funny,
577
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,163
you know,
he just exuded warmth and love.
578
00:33:35,639 --> 00:33:40,349
'Jamie's first Thanksgiving with Daddy.'
579
00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:43,351
- 'Hi, look who's here.'
- 'Yes, Daddy.'
580
00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:44,932
'Daddy decided to show up
581
00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:48,190
and make a special guest appearance.'
582
00:33:48,235 --> 00:33:53,776
♪ 'Happy birthday, dear Jamie ♪
583
00:33:53,823 --> 00:33:56,941
♪ 'Happy birthday to you' ♪
584
00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:58,950
He loved family gatherings.
585
00:34:03,124 --> 00:34:05,491
You know, Eddy really, really loved
586
00:34:05,544 --> 00:34:08,878
being around David and Bobby.
587
00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:13,462
Eddy seemed to get the most out
of the three of them meeting.
588
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:15,092
For whatever reason.
589
00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:22,767
He wanted his brothers
and him to have a beautiful life
590
00:34:22,811 --> 00:34:26,975
and everyone to get along
591
00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:31,358
and he wanted everyone
to be one big family.
592
00:34:35,073 --> 00:34:37,815
Eddy was absolutely
the driving force
593
00:34:37,867 --> 00:34:41,861
in terms of leading the search
for our birth mother.
594
00:34:41,913 --> 00:34:44,245
He got a fever
and he just wanted to do it.
595
00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:46,999
And Alan was also rallying,
596
00:34:47,043 --> 00:34:49,330
because it was just
an exciting thing to do.
597
00:34:49,379 --> 00:34:51,461
We figured what are the chances
598
00:34:51,506 --> 00:34:57,969
of having triplets born in New York
599
00:34:58,722 --> 00:35:02,215
on July 12th 1961.
600
00:35:02,267 --> 00:35:06,352
We figured out that
New York public library
601
00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:09,013
shared birth records.
602
00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:12,273
We each grabbed a book
603
00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:15,482
and went page by page
by Page by page by page,
604
00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:18,272
and within a couple of hours,
it was, "Bingo!"
605
00:35:18,325 --> 00:35:22,865
Male, male, male. Three in a row.
606
00:35:22,912 --> 00:35:24,869
All born July 12th 1961.
607
00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:30,827
Right next to it,
birth mother's last name.
608
00:35:33,548 --> 00:35:38,418
The first meeting was
a bar on like, 47th Street.
609
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:41,804
It was like, her local
neighborhood watering hole
610
00:35:41,848 --> 00:35:45,716
on the East side, and it was awkward.
611
00:35:45,769 --> 00:35:48,727
She told the story of what happened.
612
00:35:48,772 --> 00:35:51,480
Unfortunately it wasn't a romantic story.
613
00:35:51,524 --> 00:35:53,561
She was a young girl.
614
00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:57,820
Basically,
prom night knock up type thing.
615
00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:08,121
I don't think she ever
got over the fact
616
00:36:08,166 --> 00:36:12,000
that she had triplets
and had to give them up.
617
00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:16,417
You know, to us at 19,
618
00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:18,127
you drink like a fish,
you think you're invincible.
619
00:36:22,055 --> 00:36:24,968
But we found it a little concerning
620
00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:29,385
that she was pretty much
keeping up with us, you know.
621
00:36:29,437 --> 00:36:32,725
Er... the apple doesn't fall
that far from the tree
622
00:36:32,774 --> 00:36:36,768
and if that's the tree,
I was less than thrilled,
623
00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:42,566
and we had our parents already,
so we met her and it was okay.
624
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:49,576
But she was not a particularly
close part of our lives.
625
00:36:52,043 --> 00:36:56,879
We were all young and starting
our marriages and careers.
626
00:36:56,923 --> 00:36:58,584
'Hi, welcome to Triplets.'
627
00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:01,421
'David Kellman,
Eddy Galland and Robert Shafran
628
00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:03,335
are identical triplets.
629
00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:05,095
Now they run a New York
restaurant called,
630
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:07,256
what else, you guessed,
Triplets.'
631
00:37:13,106 --> 00:37:16,394
'Welcome. Hello.
Welcome, welcome.'
632
00:37:16,443 --> 00:37:18,605
We had a lot of people
who were coming for us.
633
00:37:18,653 --> 00:37:21,020
They came to see the triplets.
634
00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:23,188
They wanted to be waited
on by one of the triplets.
635
00:37:23,241 --> 00:37:25,357
We served vodka frozen
blocks of ice,
636
00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:27,822
and we'd get the whole room
up and dancing.
637
00:37:32,041 --> 00:37:33,657
It was like this
big party going on,
638
00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:34,950
it was like this big Bar Mitzvah.
639
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:42,462
'Triplets become wildly successful
640
00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:43,716
owning a restaurant
641
00:37:43,762 --> 00:37:45,378
in the Soho district of New York City.'
642
00:37:48,725 --> 00:37:50,841
We did over a million dollars first year.
643
00:37:56,566 --> 00:38:00,810
That's when things kinda got funky.
644
00:38:17,587 --> 00:38:20,204
In the mid-90s
I started working on a story
645
00:38:20,256 --> 00:38:22,293
for "The New Yorker" magazine
646
00:38:22,342 --> 00:38:25,300
about identical twins reared apart.
647
00:38:27,347 --> 00:38:28,803
I've always thought,
648
00:38:28,848 --> 00:38:30,054
"What would it be like if you turned
649
00:38:30,099 --> 00:38:33,842
the corner one day
and you saw yourself?"
650
00:38:39,108 --> 00:38:40,724
In the process of my research,
651
00:38:40,777 --> 00:38:45,146
I came across this
obscure scientific article.
652
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,073
It referenced this secret study
653
00:38:56,125 --> 00:38:59,538
in which identical siblings
had been separated.
654
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:07,130
I was shocked and intrigued.
655
00:39:07,178 --> 00:39:11,467
They were separating
identical babies at birth
656
00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:15,100
for the purpose
of this scientific experiment.
657
00:39:16,104 --> 00:39:17,560
And these babies had all come
658
00:39:17,605 --> 00:39:21,189
from one adoption agency
in New York City.
659
00:39:23,111 --> 00:39:24,897
'The first thing out of my mouth
660
00:39:24,946 --> 00:39:26,436
was, "Were you adopted?"
661
00:39:26,489 --> 00:39:27,945
'There I am, this can't be real.'
662
00:39:27,991 --> 00:39:29,698
'Twins separated at birth.'
663
00:39:29,742 --> 00:39:33,576
'Eddy and Robert and
David reunited after 19 years.'
664
00:39:33,621 --> 00:39:35,988
'It's beautiful.'
665
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,247
'Blue-collar family,
middle-class family
666
00:39:38,293 --> 00:39:39,829
and a more affluent family.'
667
00:39:39,878 --> 00:39:44,088
'Adoptive parents should be told
as much as is reasonable.'
668
00:39:44,132 --> 00:39:45,839
'Something was just not right.'
669
00:39:45,884 --> 00:39:48,751
'They were breaking open
a bottle of champagne
670
00:39:48,803 --> 00:39:51,215
as if they had dodged a bullet.'
671
00:39:52,682 --> 00:39:56,346
'All of us were adopted
from Louise Wise.'
672
00:39:56,394 --> 00:39:58,226
'Louise Wise.'
673
00:39:58,271 --> 00:40:02,060
'And these babies had all come
from Louise Wise Services.'
674
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:14,902
Lawrence Wright called me
675
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:19,289
and he told me
all about the experiment.
676
00:40:19,334 --> 00:40:21,621
And I said,
"This is like Nazi shit."
677
00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:34,012
It was kind of like reality
hitting like a tidal wave.
678
00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:39,760
We were a science experiment.
679
00:40:39,812 --> 00:40:47,060
These people split us up
and studied us like lab rats.
680
00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:50,854
We didn't recognize this stuff
until it was put in our face,
681
00:40:50,907 --> 00:40:52,318
until it was in newsprint.
682
00:40:56,537 --> 00:41:00,121
But there were clues in the past.
683
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:04,834
I remember from a very young age...
684
00:41:07,173 --> 00:41:10,165
...people would come to the house...
685
00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:14,420
...usually a young man
and a young woman.
686
00:41:21,145 --> 00:41:23,432
And they had me taking tests.
687
00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:27,440
They did IQ tests,
personality inventory tests,
688
00:41:27,485 --> 00:41:30,398
they did eye hand co-ordination tests.
689
00:41:30,446 --> 00:41:36,067
I do remember people coming
to the house, having tests done,
690
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:43,367
square pegs and round holes,
and Rorschach ink block tests.
691
00:41:43,418 --> 00:41:46,080
"What does this mean to you?"
that kind of stuff.
692
00:41:49,674 --> 00:41:51,915
Eddy told me that
when he was younger,
693
00:41:51,968 --> 00:41:57,259
he remembers people
watching him and taking notes,
694
00:41:57,306 --> 00:41:59,092
and they would ask him questions
695
00:41:59,142 --> 00:42:01,429
and he would get
frustrated with the questions,
696
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:06,354
and he remembers
they were videotaping him.
697
00:42:06,399 --> 00:42:08,766
I remember the filming
more than anything else.
698
00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:16,440
I remember having
super 8mm films taken of me
699
00:42:16,492 --> 00:42:19,325
when I was on the swing set,
or on the slide.
700
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:21,953
Every single time they came
they filmed.
701
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,991
Riding my bike, throwing a ball,
702
00:42:26,044 --> 00:42:27,830
and they wanted to see
how many times I could,
703
00:42:27,879 --> 00:42:30,337
you know, go on my pogo stick,
roller-skating,
704
00:42:30,381 --> 00:42:32,622
throwing a Frisbee,
shooting a bow and arrow,
705
00:42:32,675 --> 00:42:34,086
you know, they had my attention.
706
00:42:34,135 --> 00:42:35,341
I was performing.
707
00:42:36,929 --> 00:42:41,594
The stuff they did would be
more complex as I got older.
708
00:42:41,642 --> 00:42:44,760
I felt weird about it,
I didn't really understand
709
00:42:44,812 --> 00:42:46,769
why they needed to come so often,
710
00:42:46,814 --> 00:42:49,306
why were they asking me
all these questions.
711
00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:51,224
Somewhere around age of nine or ten
712
00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:53,234
I started becoming
less comfortable with it,
713
00:42:53,279 --> 00:42:55,862
and it was kinda like,
"Mom, do I still have to do this?
714
00:42:57,450 --> 00:43:00,283
Do I still have to do this?"
715
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:03,740
When our parents adopted us
716
00:43:03,790 --> 00:43:06,908
they were each told that
we were being followed
717
00:43:06,959 --> 00:43:08,415
as part of a normal study
718
00:43:08,461 --> 00:43:11,499
of the development
of adopted children.
719
00:43:11,547 --> 00:43:18,010
They had no idea that
we'd been separated.
720
00:43:18,054 --> 00:43:22,639
The agency said the
children born in this period of time
721
00:43:22,683 --> 00:43:26,972
were all gonna be in a
normal study of adopted children.
722
00:43:27,021 --> 00:43:34,644
And, as far as we knew,
that was it.
723
00:43:34,695 --> 00:43:37,232
That this was a new thing
they were going to follow up
724
00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:42,651
with all the children and
at the time we accepted it.
725
00:43:44,247 --> 00:43:46,238
You're talking about
a group of people
726
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:50,375
that went and held a baby
727
00:43:50,419 --> 00:43:54,959
and did psychological testing
on a six-month-old baby,
728
00:43:55,007 --> 00:43:59,547
and then went to another house
to see his brother,
729
00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:02,963
and then went to another house
to see his brother,
730
00:44:03,015 --> 00:44:08,351
and did this over years
and years and years and years
731
00:44:08,396 --> 00:44:10,182
with full knowledge
732
00:44:10,231 --> 00:44:12,222
that we were within
a 100-mile radius,
733
00:44:13,442 --> 00:44:16,730
and not knowing each other.
734
00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:20,443
It's just unconscionable.
735
00:44:20,491 --> 00:44:25,452
Who would think that anybody
would be evil enough
736
00:44:25,496 --> 00:44:29,285
to come up with something like this?
737
00:44:36,591 --> 00:44:38,628
In the process of my research,
738
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:42,544
I learned is that the person
really in charge of the study
739
00:44:42,597 --> 00:44:46,682
was Dr. Peter Neubauer,
740
00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:51,019
very distinguished psychiatrist
in New York,
741
00:44:51,063 --> 00:44:53,771
director of the Freud archives.
742
00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:57,775
He was an Austrian refugee
from the Holocaust
743
00:44:57,820 --> 00:45:00,733
and he set up shop in New York
and became, you know,
744
00:45:00,781 --> 00:45:05,992
one of the great men
of psychiatry in America.
745
00:45:06,037 --> 00:45:09,280
What I learned is that people
at the Louise Wise agency
746
00:45:09,332 --> 00:45:12,620
were separating identical siblings
747
00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:15,877
and then a team of scientists
led by Neubauer
748
00:45:15,922 --> 00:45:18,380
would follow them.
749
00:45:18,424 --> 00:45:22,008
But it wasn't just the triplets.
750
00:45:23,012 --> 00:45:24,673
There were others.
751
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:28,681
After my article came out
752
00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:31,935
another twin set
discovered themselves.
753
00:45:31,979 --> 00:45:33,515
'And here they are now.
754
00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:34,679
I appreciate you coming
on the show today.'
755
00:45:34,732 --> 00:45:36,848
- 'Our pleasure.'
- 'Paula and Elyse.'
756
00:45:40,446 --> 00:45:44,986
'The story is incredible.
Is that the way to tell it?'
757
00:45:45,034 --> 00:45:47,651
'It's funny. I mean, we say
if it hadn't happened to us
758
00:45:47,703 --> 00:45:50,991
we wouldn't believe it.'
- 'This is a Disney movie.'
759
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,781
'It's a little darker than a Disney movie.
760
00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:54,824
I was at home in my
apartment in Brooklyn
761
00:45:54,877 --> 00:45:56,493
with my two-year-old daughter,
762
00:45:56,545 --> 00:45:59,708
and the phone rings
and I answer the phone
763
00:45:59,757 --> 00:46:01,247
and it was the adoption agency.
764
00:46:01,300 --> 00:46:03,257
"We've got some news for you,
you've got a twin sister.
765
00:46:03,302 --> 00:46:04,667
And she's looking for you.
766
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,303
You were both editors
of your high school paper,
767
00:46:07,348 --> 00:46:08,930
you both went to film school."
768
00:46:08,975 --> 00:46:10,557
Well, it's funny because I
don't know if you noticed...'
769
00:46:10,601 --> 00:46:13,810
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'
770
00:46:13,854 --> 00:46:15,765
'I contacted the adoption agency
771
00:46:15,815 --> 00:46:18,022
and I asked them,
"Well, why we were separated?"'
772
00:46:18,067 --> 00:46:19,523
'That's the million-dollar
question of this story.'
773
00:46:19,568 --> 00:46:20,933
'And they said, "For a twin study."
774
00:46:20,987 --> 00:46:22,944
We felt that our lives
had been orchestrated
775
00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:25,276
by these scientific researchers
776
00:46:25,324 --> 00:46:27,782
who put their scientific needs,
777
00:46:27,827 --> 00:46:30,990
research needs or desires,
their career interests
778
00:46:31,038 --> 00:46:33,245
before the needs of us,
and the interests of us
779
00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:36,249
and other twins and
triplets who were separated.'
780
00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:41,045
Nobody is sure of
how many identical twins
781
00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:42,831
were involved in this study.
782
00:46:42,883 --> 00:46:47,423
I was told six to eight,
but we don't really know.
783
00:46:51,517 --> 00:46:52,928
When you have a study like this,
784
00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,139
normally you produce the results
785
00:46:55,187 --> 00:46:58,145
and you show how large the sample is
786
00:46:58,190 --> 00:47:00,101
and all this sort of thing.
787
00:47:00,151 --> 00:47:03,689
But this study was never published.
788
00:47:03,738 --> 00:47:07,151
Which makes it all
the more intriguing.
789
00:47:08,534 --> 00:47:10,696
We did have an attorney
790
00:47:10,745 --> 00:47:14,079
try to get us some of
the study records.
791
00:47:14,123 --> 00:47:17,457
We received a small
amount of information.
792
00:47:17,501 --> 00:47:20,789
It was very dry, technical data,
793
00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:22,420
that didn't really shed any light
794
00:47:22,465 --> 00:47:25,048
on the reasons for the study.
It was garbage.
795
00:47:26,635 --> 00:47:28,467
I don't know what the results were,
796
00:47:28,512 --> 00:47:31,675
or if there ever were results
because I never saw them.
797
00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:35,717
They're trying to
conceal what they did
798
00:47:35,770 --> 00:47:38,182
from the people they did it to.
799
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:39,971
Why?
800
00:47:40,024 --> 00:47:42,607
I mean,
what was the purpose of it?
801
00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:45,609
The study was never published. Why?
802
00:48:07,843 --> 00:48:09,880
My name is Natasha Josefowitz...
803
00:48:11,597 --> 00:48:15,682
...and I was Peter Neubauer's
research assistant.
804
00:48:22,441 --> 00:48:26,480
So, come on in.
Would you like a cup of coffee?
805
00:48:28,364 --> 00:48:31,322
Here are some of my buddies.
806
00:48:31,367 --> 00:48:34,826
Michelle Obama and I.
She is very tall.
807
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:36,656
I'm like a little shrimp next to her,
808
00:48:36,705 --> 00:48:38,696
I come up to her right here.
809
00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:40,456
This is Obama three years ago,
810
00:48:40,501 --> 00:48:42,833
and here he is holding
my latest book.
811
00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,210
I have to tell you. I said,
"Barack, I love you."
812
00:48:45,256 --> 00:48:48,544
He said, "I love you too",
and he gave me a kiss on this cheek.
813
00:48:48,592 --> 00:48:53,086
Yeah.
This is Robert Redford and Al Gore,
814
00:48:53,139 --> 00:48:56,848
and this is Errol Flynn
and me when I was 18.
815
00:48:56,892 --> 00:48:58,474
I thought he was a hoot.
816
00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:01,261
Picasso's.
817
00:49:03,149 --> 00:49:06,358
When are we gonna talk
about the twin study?
818
00:49:10,197 --> 00:49:13,986
You need to know
I am not part of the team,
819
00:49:14,034 --> 00:49:17,527
I am a peripheral person.
I just do the hearsay.
820
00:49:20,791 --> 00:49:23,078
The first time
I heard about the twin study,
821
00:49:23,127 --> 00:49:27,371
it was still just a dream in Peter's head.
822
00:49:29,592 --> 00:49:31,048
What was he like?
823
00:49:31,093 --> 00:49:35,758
Hmm... sexy, nice looking, interesting.
824
00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:40,342
His background was very Freudian.
825
00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:42,351
Anna Freud, Freud's daughter,
826
00:49:42,396 --> 00:49:45,013
would often come and visit with him.
827
00:49:46,525 --> 00:49:50,314
He was very focused on wanting
to make a difference
828
00:49:50,362 --> 00:49:52,399
in children's lives.
829
00:49:54,909 --> 00:49:57,367
Peter started thinking,
wouldn't it be interesting
830
00:49:57,411 --> 00:49:59,698
to have a study of mothers
831
00:49:59,747 --> 00:50:01,704
who wanted to give up
their children,
832
00:50:01,749 --> 00:50:03,786
who happen to be identical twins
833
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:09,454
and then could be
separated at birth?
834
00:50:09,507 --> 00:50:13,717
If we could put them in
two totally different environments,
835
00:50:13,761 --> 00:50:16,674
we would put to rest the dilemma,
836
00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:19,680
nature or nurture, forever.
837
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,927
Now you may think,
"Oh, this is terrible, you know,
838
00:50:23,979 --> 00:50:25,686
how could you do this?"
839
00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:29,975
You have to put yourself
back in the late 50s and 60s.
840
00:50:31,737 --> 00:50:36,402
This was not something
that seemed to be bad.
841
00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:39,909
Nobody said,
"To take children apart, how terrible."
842
00:50:39,954 --> 00:50:44,073
That was not at all
in anyone's thoughts.
843
00:50:44,124 --> 00:50:48,493
This was a very exciting time.
844
00:50:48,546 --> 00:50:51,004
Psychology was just beginning
to be the big deal
845
00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:53,255
that everybody was talking about.
846
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,543
This was all in terms of research.
An opportunity.
847
00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:03,553
One of the great questions
that science has ever asked
848
00:51:03,602 --> 00:51:06,060
is "How do we become
the people we are,
849
00:51:06,105 --> 00:51:09,097
how much of nature
versus how much of nurture
850
00:51:09,149 --> 00:51:11,732
shapes us into the people
that we become?"
851
00:51:14,488 --> 00:51:17,276
I did not go and do the research.
852
00:51:17,324 --> 00:51:19,907
But I would hear about it
because I was in the office.
853
00:51:21,996 --> 00:51:25,489
What they found out, was incredible.
854
00:51:27,543 --> 00:51:30,160
'Our lives are parallel
to a phenomenal degree.
855
00:51:30,212 --> 00:51:32,453
It's, it's ridiculous.'
856
00:51:32,506 --> 00:51:33,996
'We're all the same,
857
00:51:34,049 --> 00:51:35,289
as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'
858
00:51:35,342 --> 00:51:37,299
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'
859
00:51:37,344 --> 00:51:38,425
'We always talk at the same time.'
860
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:40,427
'You were raised in different homes?'
861
00:51:40,472 --> 00:51:42,133
'True.'
862
00:51:42,182 --> 00:51:47,302
I did not believe that it'd be
as much hereditary as it was,
863
00:51:47,354 --> 00:51:49,311
that was more
than any of us thought.
864
00:51:49,356 --> 00:51:51,063
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'
865
00:51:51,108 --> 00:51:52,269
'We all like Chinese food.'
866
00:51:52,318 --> 00:51:53,558
'You were all wrestlers at one time?'
867
00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:55,022
'Yes.'
868
00:51:55,070 --> 00:51:56,060
- 'You all smoke cigarettes?'
- 'Yes.'
869
00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:57,569
'Do you all smoke the same brand?'
870
00:51:57,615 --> 00:51:59,026
'Yes.'
871
00:51:59,074 --> 00:52:01,486
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- 'Yes.'
872
00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:03,276
'How's their taste in women,
is it similar?'
873
00:52:03,329 --> 00:52:05,445
'Yes. Definitely.'
874
00:52:07,082 --> 00:52:09,073
We are moved to behaviors
875
00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:10,958
that we are totally
unconscious about.
876
00:52:15,633 --> 00:52:17,965
'You were both editors
of your high school paper,
877
00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:19,842
you both went to film school.'
878
00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,218
'I don't know if you noticed...'
879
00:52:21,263 --> 00:52:23,379
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'
880
00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:28,392
It's disturbing, we don't like that.
881
00:52:28,437 --> 00:52:30,474
People don't like to hear,
they say, "I have free will."
882
00:52:33,651 --> 00:52:38,361
We would prefer that we have
some influence over our lives.
883
00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:40,237
Wouldn't you rather know that?
884
00:52:40,282 --> 00:52:42,489
That you have
some control over this
885
00:52:42,534 --> 00:52:45,572
and so finding out, never mind,
doesn't matter what you do.
886
00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:52,291
So, I think it's upsetting to people
887
00:52:52,336 --> 00:52:54,543
to see how little influence they have,
888
00:52:54,588 --> 00:52:55,669
how little control they have.
889
00:52:55,714 --> 00:52:58,797
We don't like that, we fight that.
890
00:53:06,308 --> 00:53:11,018
If the conclusions of the study
were so shocking
891
00:53:11,063 --> 00:53:13,725
and so earth-shaking,
892
00:53:13,774 --> 00:53:16,061
why haven't you published your study?
893
00:53:19,113 --> 00:53:22,731
There is a lot that we don't know.
894
00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:26,572
We have anecdotes
that are very provocative,
895
00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:28,952
but we don't know,
we don't have the data.
896
00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:35,118
I don't know what
happened to the study.
897
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:39,004
I moved to Switzerland in 1965
898
00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:42,792
and lost touch with what was going on.
899
00:53:44,847 --> 00:53:48,090
All that research should be seen.
900
00:53:48,142 --> 00:53:50,975
This study was the first,
and it's also the last,
901
00:53:51,019 --> 00:53:54,307
it will never be done again,
it will never be replicated.
902
00:53:54,356 --> 00:53:56,518
It's monumental,
it's a monumental study.
903
00:54:00,112 --> 00:54:02,353
In terms of the motivation
that they used
904
00:54:02,406 --> 00:54:04,113
to justify what they did,
905
00:54:04,158 --> 00:54:06,525
I don't even care because, I...
906
00:54:06,577 --> 00:54:08,193
It's not justifiable what they did.
907
00:54:11,832 --> 00:54:15,041
You know what?
908
00:54:15,085 --> 00:54:17,793
Coming from the Holocaust,
909
00:54:17,838 --> 00:54:23,459
our family has a knowledge
910
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:27,253
that when you play with humans...
911
00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:33,893
...you do something very wrong.
912
00:54:35,606 --> 00:54:41,022
And I really believe that
because of this research,
913
00:54:41,069 --> 00:54:45,563
these three boys
did not have happy endings.
914
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,656
'What were some of the similarities
915
00:54:54,708 --> 00:54:56,745
you found that you had
as you were all growing up
916
00:54:56,794 --> 00:55:00,503
in your own respective households?'
917
00:55:00,547 --> 00:55:02,663
'We all smoked the
same cigarettes when we met,
918
00:55:02,716 --> 00:55:04,878
we all wrestled
in high school and junior high,
919
00:55:04,927 --> 00:55:07,043
we all loved the same food, er...
920
00:55:07,095 --> 00:55:08,381
our taste in women was similar.'
921
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:10,091
'What are some of the stranger things
922
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:12,222
you found out you had in common?
923
00:55:13,894 --> 00:55:16,261
'Any other more surprising discoveries?'
924
00:55:16,313 --> 00:55:17,519
'Well, sometimes when you think
925
00:55:17,564 --> 00:55:19,100
you're having
a unique thought or idea
926
00:55:19,149 --> 00:55:21,265
and you go to share it
with someone
927
00:55:21,318 --> 00:55:23,150
and they say,
"Your brother just told me."
928
00:55:23,195 --> 00:55:24,356
- 'It's a little annoying.'
- 'It's funny.'
929
00:55:24,404 --> 00:55:25,769
'It's a little annoying, it's unnerving.'
930
00:55:27,157 --> 00:55:29,444
Being in business
with my brothers
931
00:55:29,493 --> 00:55:31,951
damaged our relationship.
932
00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:36,580
There were conflicting work ethics,
933
00:55:36,625 --> 00:55:40,710
and my father had passed away.
934
00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:47,375
He really anchored us together
as a group
935
00:55:47,427 --> 00:55:50,215
and kept the peace so to speak.
936
00:55:50,264 --> 00:55:53,131
They started to argue
like kids would argue, you know.
937
00:55:53,183 --> 00:55:56,517
And they didn't have
that opportunity,
938
00:55:56,562 --> 00:55:59,520
that gift of being able
to be brothers for 18 years.
939
00:55:59,565 --> 00:56:04,685
When you are living
in a family of children
940
00:56:04,736 --> 00:56:08,274
you learn how to adjust
to each other.
941
00:56:08,323 --> 00:56:12,942
If I don't like the way you do this,
I can get angry,
942
00:56:12,995 --> 00:56:16,033
or I can learn to compromise.
943
00:56:16,081 --> 00:56:20,996
But they met as adults.
944
00:56:21,044 --> 00:56:25,003
And had never learned
how to live with each other.
945
00:56:25,048 --> 00:56:28,086
As things went on,
things got more complicated,
946
00:56:28,135 --> 00:56:31,218
and as things got more complicated,
947
00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:34,221
what ended up happening
was I left.
948
00:56:37,102 --> 00:56:39,685
When Bobby left the business
949
00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:43,894
Eddy and I felt that
we were being betrayed.
950
00:56:43,942 --> 00:56:47,731
Bobby felt that
he was being pushed out.
951
00:56:47,779 --> 00:56:54,321
Either way, it did major, major
damage to the relationship.
952
00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,573
I think that took
an extreme toll on Eddy
953
00:57:00,626 --> 00:57:04,085
more so than I think David and Bobby.
954
00:57:04,129 --> 00:57:05,665
Eddy was always the one
955
00:57:05,714 --> 00:57:09,628
who just wanted to have
everybody be at peace together,
956
00:57:09,676 --> 00:57:11,667
and Eddy was,
was very upset about it.
957
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,212
He was kind of crushed
about it. It was eating at him.
958
00:57:16,808 --> 00:57:18,094
He dearly loved them,
959
00:57:18,143 --> 00:57:20,180
and he wanted
his brothers to be together.
960
00:57:20,228 --> 00:57:24,313
He was just not really sure
how to deal with it all.
961
00:57:24,358 --> 00:57:30,730
You're just seeing a lot more
kind of up and down behaviors,
962
00:57:30,781 --> 00:57:32,237
erratic behaviors.
963
00:57:33,492 --> 00:57:35,108
'Eddy's growing a beard.'
964
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,946
'Fur face, that's me.'
965
00:57:36,995 --> 00:57:38,360
'Jeez, wake the child.'
966
00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:41,371
'Jamie, your daddy is fuzzy.'
967
00:57:41,416 --> 00:57:45,410
You're just seeing a lot more
unnatural highs and lows.
968
00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:52,084
He would call people and...
at bizarre hours of the evening,
969
00:57:52,135 --> 00:57:55,127
and then they would say,
970
00:57:55,180 --> 00:58:00,220
"I haven't seen or heard
from Eddy in ten years.
971
00:58:00,268 --> 00:58:02,555
Why is he picking up
the telephone and calling me
972
00:58:02,604 --> 00:58:04,470
at two o'clock in the morning?"
973
00:58:04,523 --> 00:58:07,390
You know, those are,
those are signs.
974
00:58:07,442 --> 00:58:09,809
This was just... this was more
975
00:58:09,861 --> 00:58:12,353
than just somebody
who needed counseling.
976
00:58:12,406 --> 00:58:15,740
This was, like, really
something very, very serious.
977
00:58:18,161 --> 00:58:21,324
He could be unbelievably charming.
978
00:58:21,373 --> 00:58:22,989
'Hello!'
979
00:58:23,041 --> 00:58:26,124
But the downswing was a lot of anger.
980
00:58:26,169 --> 00:58:29,412
Er... there was just
deep, deep darkness.
981
00:58:31,008 --> 00:58:32,214
Manic depression
982
00:58:32,259 --> 00:58:36,093
I think was what
they eventually said.
983
00:58:36,138 --> 00:58:39,256
It made sense in hindsight.
984
00:58:46,982 --> 00:58:48,518
I didn't walk down the aisle
985
00:58:48,567 --> 00:58:50,274
thinking, you know,
986
00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:55,404
"I have a man who is suffering
from manic depression."
987
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,279
People will say,
"How could you not know?", but...
988
00:59:02,330 --> 00:59:05,448
...he was so unique
and so wonderful and special,
989
00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:07,457
you just...
that was Eddy, you know.
990
00:59:13,508 --> 00:59:18,378
I was advised that he
needed to be in a... a facility.
991
00:59:24,144 --> 00:59:27,762
I mean, I felt bad that
I put him through this trauma
992
00:59:27,814 --> 00:59:29,475
of going into a psych ward
993
00:59:29,524 --> 00:59:31,765
because I had been in a psych ward
and I know how hard it is.
994
00:59:31,818 --> 00:59:35,812
When I was a kid, I spent
my 16th birthday in a psych ward.
995
00:59:37,324 --> 00:59:40,112
We all were really disturbed kids.
996
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,243
We were all under psychiatric
care when we were teenagers.
997
00:59:47,209 --> 00:59:51,203
We all had very challenging
998
00:59:52,506 --> 00:59:54,713
and dysfunctional teenage years.
999
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,092
Could we ask about personal.
1000
01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:04,427
One of you were involved
in a murder,
1001
01:00:04,476 --> 01:00:05,637
is that right?
1002
01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:09,094
Ah, it's up to you guys.
1003
01:00:09,147 --> 01:00:10,103
No. No.
1004
01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:11,513
People Magazine...
1005
01:00:11,566 --> 01:00:14,934
One was accused of
being involved in a murder.
1006
01:00:15,904 --> 01:00:17,565
And it was me,
1007
01:00:17,614 --> 01:00:20,697
who never met this person
who was killed,
1008
01:00:20,742 --> 01:00:23,734
never was present
or anything like that.
1009
01:00:23,787 --> 01:00:25,448
It was peer pressure.
1010
01:00:25,497 --> 01:00:28,034
Friends pressuring me
into covering for them,
1011
01:00:28,083 --> 01:00:30,074
telling a story for them to the police
1012
01:00:30,127 --> 01:00:31,709
and that pulled me right into it.
1013
01:00:31,753 --> 01:00:33,539
I've never hurt anyone in my life.
1014
01:00:33,588 --> 01:00:36,046
We know it, we can feel it.
1015
01:00:36,091 --> 01:00:37,581
We can feel it.
1016
01:00:42,722 --> 01:00:48,718
A lot of people in this study
had dysfunctional childhoods
1017
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:51,102
and some mental problems
1018
01:00:51,148 --> 01:00:54,357
and it raises questions, you know.
1019
01:00:54,401 --> 01:00:57,519
If you are a person who
has devoted your life,
1020
01:00:57,571 --> 01:01:00,939
like Dr. Neubauer has
to the study of mental illness,
1021
01:01:00,991 --> 01:01:04,985
then is that a factor that
you are researching?
1022
01:01:07,622 --> 01:01:11,661
'The story is incredible.
This is a Disney movie.'
1023
01:01:11,710 --> 01:01:13,701
'It's a little darker than a Disney movie.'
1024
01:01:16,673 --> 01:01:20,917
When we first met we realized
we had all these similarities,
1025
01:01:20,969 --> 01:01:23,336
we had similar mannerisms,
1026
01:01:23,388 --> 01:01:25,550
we both had studied film.
1027
01:01:27,225 --> 01:01:29,512
And then we also found out
1028
01:01:29,561 --> 01:01:31,973
we both had suffered from depression.
1029
01:01:34,733 --> 01:01:36,098
So, this is the letter
1030
01:01:36,151 --> 01:01:39,610
that I received
from Louise Wise Services.
1031
01:01:39,654 --> 01:01:44,239
"You were born at 12:51 p.m.
on October 9, 1968
1032
01:01:44,284 --> 01:01:47,322
to a 29-year-old Jewish single woman.
1033
01:01:47,370 --> 01:01:49,987
She was very intelligent with a high IQ.
1034
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,828
She entered college
on a merit scholarship
1035
01:01:52,876 --> 01:01:56,494
but emotional problems
interrupted her attendance.
1036
01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:59,379
She had a history
of voluntary hospitalizations
1037
01:01:59,424 --> 01:02:01,461
for emotional problems.
1038
01:02:01,509 --> 01:02:03,295
Although I have not been able to locate
1039
01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:07,430
the original medical reports,
secondary sources noted
1040
01:02:07,474 --> 01:02:09,932
that your mother's diagnosis
was schizophrenia."
1041
01:02:11,519 --> 01:02:14,102
It was really disturbing
to read that my birth mother
1042
01:02:14,147 --> 01:02:17,640
had been in and out of institutions.
1043
01:02:18,985 --> 01:02:20,771
I started finding out more
1044
01:02:20,820 --> 01:02:25,030
about the other twins
and triplets in the study,
1045
01:02:25,075 --> 01:02:27,612
and it turns out that
not only had many of them
1046
01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:30,323
struggled with mental health problems,
1047
01:02:30,372 --> 01:02:34,240
but that their birth parents
had mental health issues.
1048
01:02:34,292 --> 01:02:37,284
And their adoptive families
had never been told.
1049
01:02:38,755 --> 01:02:40,211
How possible is it
1050
01:02:40,257 --> 01:02:43,750
that your mother
had mental health issues?
1051
01:02:45,095 --> 01:02:51,888
Er... I don't think they were severe.
1052
01:02:51,935 --> 01:02:55,519
I, I think that she was, er...
1053
01:02:55,563 --> 01:03:01,400
She may have had some minor,
minor issues, er...
1054
01:03:05,782 --> 01:03:09,150
She may have had some, a little
bit more than minor issues.
1055
01:03:13,290 --> 01:03:16,999
Were the scientists
purposefully choosing children
1056
01:03:17,043 --> 01:03:20,252
whose biological parents
had a mental illness,
1057
01:03:22,674 --> 01:03:25,462
and placing them
into different homes
1058
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:29,925
to see, is mental illness hereditable.
1059
01:03:36,730 --> 01:03:38,312
Eddy was in the hospital
1060
01:03:38,356 --> 01:03:40,438
for I think it was three weeks.
1061
01:03:40,483 --> 01:03:44,477
And then he came
back to work at the restaurant.
1062
01:03:47,449 --> 01:03:51,943
I wasn't there.
David was with him, all the time.
1063
01:03:53,621 --> 01:03:57,285
I think maybe he can
give you better detail about it.
1064
01:04:00,628 --> 01:04:02,414
I was running the kitchen.
1065
01:04:02,464 --> 01:04:04,751
Eddy wasn't in.
I was running the kitchen,
1066
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:06,415
he was running the front of the house.
1067
01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:08,254
That's the way it worked.
1068
01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:11,921
And I didn't know where he was,
and he lived across the street.
1069
01:04:14,976 --> 01:04:16,887
So, David called me
from the restaurant
1070
01:04:16,936 --> 01:04:21,021
and he asked me
to look out the window
1071
01:04:21,066 --> 01:04:24,730
to see if Eddy's car
was in the driveway,
1072
01:04:24,778 --> 01:04:26,735
because if it were in the driveway,
1073
01:04:26,780 --> 01:04:28,396
we knew that he was home.
1074
01:04:28,448 --> 01:04:32,066
So, the car was in the driveway,
1075
01:04:32,118 --> 01:04:37,079
and I said to David, er...
1076
01:04:37,123 --> 01:04:40,536
"Do you want me to go over there?"
1077
01:04:40,585 --> 01:04:44,795
And David said, "Yes."
1078
01:04:47,801 --> 01:04:49,838
And she called me back
a few minutes later
1079
01:04:49,886 --> 01:04:52,093
and her voice was
trembling and shaking.
1080
01:04:52,138 --> 01:04:54,505
She said,
"You've gotta come home."
1081
01:04:54,557 --> 01:04:56,514
And I said, "Why?"
1082
01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:59,267
And she said,
"Please, you've just gotta come home."
1083
01:04:59,813 --> 01:05:01,303
Er...
1084
01:05:04,651 --> 01:05:09,236
And I, er... I pulled up
we lived across the street.
1085
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,238
I pulled up, kind of, just...
cop cars were all there
1086
01:05:12,283 --> 01:05:15,150
and I, just kind of,
pulled up on... you know,
1087
01:05:15,203 --> 01:05:17,490
blocking half the street,
left the door open
1088
01:05:17,539 --> 01:05:19,655
and started running into the house
1089
01:05:19,707 --> 01:05:23,541
and the cops grabbed me and
they wouldn't let me come in.
1090
01:05:23,586 --> 01:05:25,497
They said,
"You don't, you don't wanna see this.
1091
01:05:25,547 --> 01:05:28,130
You can't see this,
you don't wanna see this.
1092
01:05:28,174 --> 01:05:30,711
You, you don't wanna see this."
1093
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,673
And that's when I knew he was gone.
1094
01:05:37,142 --> 01:05:40,680
I told Bobby,
"I need to talk to you."
1095
01:05:43,231 --> 01:05:46,940
And it's as if he, he kind of knew.
1096
01:05:46,985 --> 01:05:52,401
He kind of knew,
before the words came out of my mouth.
1097
01:05:55,368 --> 01:05:57,951
Eddy committed suicide.
1098
01:05:59,414 --> 01:06:01,997
Eddy shot himself.
1099
01:06:03,251 --> 01:06:05,492
He took his own life.
1100
01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:22,810
I don't remember who told us.
I just remember darkness.
1101
01:06:27,775 --> 01:06:34,363
Buried him on Father's Day,
I gave the eulogy,
1102
01:06:34,407 --> 01:06:38,401
and I don't remember everything I said,
1103
01:06:38,453 --> 01:06:42,913
but I do remember saying
that my brother Eddy
1104
01:06:42,957 --> 01:06:45,949
could light up a room with his smile.
1105
01:06:58,723 --> 01:07:02,261
Why Eddy, why Eddy? Why not me?
1106
01:07:02,310 --> 01:07:04,517
I've asked myself that a hundred times.
1107
01:07:04,562 --> 01:07:07,975
I'd rather it was me than Eddy.
1108
01:07:08,024 --> 01:07:11,983
I, I don't know why Eddy
and why not me.
1109
01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:14,440
Maybe just because...
1110
01:07:17,158 --> 01:07:20,025
I don't know, I just don't know.
1111
01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:23,241
I, I, I can't answer this.
1112
01:07:30,588 --> 01:07:32,044
Thank you, Bobby.
1113
01:07:32,090 --> 01:07:34,172
Oh, you're welcome.
1114
01:08:20,096 --> 01:08:25,637
I'd like to know the truth
about the experiment.
1115
01:08:25,685 --> 01:08:32,148
My understanding,
within this small group of twins
1116
01:08:32,191 --> 01:08:33,852
that were separated and studied,
1117
01:08:35,361 --> 01:08:39,821
there was more than one suicide.
1118
01:08:39,866 --> 01:08:42,699
It's almost impossible
just to be a coincidence.
1119
01:08:45,955 --> 01:08:49,949
Given Eddy's mental illness...
1120
01:08:52,670 --> 01:08:54,752
...who knows what's in their DNA.
1121
01:08:57,759 --> 01:08:59,375
If they have anything conclusive
1122
01:08:59,427 --> 01:09:02,886
that is in any way predicting
anything in the future
1123
01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:06,173
that I need to know about,
I wanna know about it.
1124
01:09:10,521 --> 01:09:13,684
There is still so much
that we don't know.
1125
01:09:15,526 --> 01:09:18,860
I have more questions
than I have answers.
1126
01:09:28,748 --> 01:09:30,705
One of the things
about being a journalist
1127
01:09:30,750 --> 01:09:33,458
is that you don't know
what you are gonna find out.
1128
01:09:33,503 --> 01:09:35,961
Sometimes you know
what you didn't find out
1129
01:09:36,005 --> 01:09:40,090
which is frustrating
like with this story.
1130
01:09:41,344 --> 01:09:44,211
Well, I didn't get to the bottom of it
1131
01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:46,425
because I never got to see the study.
1132
01:09:46,474 --> 01:09:48,260
As no one has, you know.
1133
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:50,471
That would be the bottom of it.
1134
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,557
But that's why this is so tantalizing.
1135
01:10:04,492 --> 01:10:06,108
Here's the research that I kept
1136
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,743
from when I was writing about twins.
1137
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:16,077
It's been a while since
I've had a look at this box.
1138
01:10:16,129 --> 01:10:18,416
Oh, this is interesting.
1139
01:10:19,257 --> 01:10:21,339
Mini cassettes.
1140
01:10:23,094 --> 01:10:28,510
Before he passed away I managed
to talk to Dr. Neubauer.
1141
01:10:28,558 --> 01:10:30,424
He was reluctant,
1142
01:10:30,476 --> 01:10:34,265
he had not ever spoken about it
to my knowledge.
1143
01:10:34,313 --> 01:10:36,896
All right,
let's see what he has to say.
1144
01:10:39,068 --> 01:10:42,402
'Okay, I've got it on now.
1145
01:10:42,447 --> 01:10:44,905
How did this study come about?'
1146
01:10:44,949 --> 01:10:46,235
'I tell you,
1147
01:10:46,284 --> 01:10:49,072
I would rather
not want to speak about it.'
1148
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,908
'Oh, really? Why?'
1149
01:10:51,956 --> 01:10:54,368
'Until we have published it.'
1150
01:10:54,417 --> 01:10:57,284
'Oh, uh-huh.
When do you plan to publish it?'
1151
01:10:57,336 --> 01:11:00,954
'Well, maybe, we would publish
1152
01:11:01,007 --> 01:11:03,965
in about a year,
a year and a half from now.'
1153
01:11:04,010 --> 01:11:05,717
He was certainly illusive,
1154
01:11:05,762 --> 01:11:08,003
he was protecting something.
1155
01:11:08,055 --> 01:11:11,764
'Well, tell me a little bit
about the scope of the study
1156
01:11:11,809 --> 01:11:14,927
and how many people
were involved in it?'
1157
01:11:14,979 --> 01:11:18,472
'The study was only
based on a small number
1158
01:11:18,524 --> 01:11:22,893
of identical twins separated at birth,
1159
01:11:22,945 --> 01:11:25,107
for many, many reasons.
1160
01:11:25,156 --> 01:11:27,443
I don't want to talk about that now.
1161
01:11:27,492 --> 01:11:31,281
We had to stop it because
it became too expensive.'
1162
01:11:31,329 --> 01:11:34,117
'Who was your primary support?'
1163
01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:36,532
'Oh, some private family foundations.
1164
01:11:38,044 --> 01:11:40,627
We got some money from Washington.'
1165
01:11:42,924 --> 01:11:44,710
'Okay.'
1166
01:11:44,759 --> 01:11:48,468
Private charities and Washington,
what does that mean?
1167
01:11:48,513 --> 01:11:51,255
And I don't know where
their funding came from.
1168
01:11:51,307 --> 01:11:52,672
'Okay, thanks again for your time.'
1169
01:11:52,725 --> 01:11:53,681
'Bye.'
1170
01:11:57,522 --> 01:12:00,059
I think that there's
a great deal of sensitivity
1171
01:12:00,107 --> 01:12:02,314
about this story.
1172
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,146
There's a lot of powerful people
1173
01:12:04,195 --> 01:12:07,358
who would like
to have this story silenced.
1174
01:12:10,409 --> 01:12:11,865
What happened to the study
1175
01:12:11,911 --> 01:12:13,618
as far as you're aware?
1176
01:12:13,663 --> 01:12:16,997
Before Neubauer died in 2008,
1177
01:12:17,041 --> 01:12:19,328
he left all the research materials
1178
01:12:19,377 --> 01:12:22,085
in an archive at Yale University.
1179
01:12:23,631 --> 01:12:29,502
Neubauer placed it under seal,
for decades and decades.
1180
01:12:29,554 --> 01:12:34,048
So far as I know
nobody's been able to access it.
1181
01:12:36,936 --> 01:12:40,019
Er... what do we have here?
1182
01:12:44,485 --> 01:12:45,975
Wow.
1183
01:12:48,823 --> 01:12:52,817
This is the Yale University website,
and this appears to be
1184
01:12:52,869 --> 01:12:54,655
the Guide to Adoption Study Records
1185
01:12:54,704 --> 01:12:57,071
of the Child Development Center.
1186
01:12:57,123 --> 01:13:01,959
66 boxes filled with information:
1187
01:13:02,003 --> 01:13:06,372
charts, films and tapes
and research findings.
1188
01:13:06,424 --> 01:13:09,041
Home visits, that's a big one.
1189
01:13:09,093 --> 01:13:13,178
It says that the dates of the
study were from 1960 to 1980.
1190
01:13:13,222 --> 01:13:18,058
I guess our reunion,
kind of closed the study.
1191
01:13:18,102 --> 01:13:21,094
"Information about access.
1192
01:13:21,147 --> 01:13:25,983
The records are restricted until 2066."
1193
01:13:27,904 --> 01:13:29,736
It's sealed!
1194
01:13:32,825 --> 01:13:35,943
So, they did all that they did
1195
01:13:35,995 --> 01:13:38,783
to have this whole list tucked away
1196
01:13:38,831 --> 01:13:43,826
in a dusty library somewhere,
where nobody can touch it.
1197
01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:49,460
"Researchers wishing
to use these records
1198
01:13:49,508 --> 01:13:50,873
before this date must secure
1199
01:13:50,927 --> 01:13:52,793
written authorization
from the Jewish Board
1200
01:13:52,845 --> 01:13:54,802
of Family and Children's Services."
1201
01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:03,394
The Jewish Board was
the parent organization
1202
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:07,683
of the Child Development Center
run by Peter Neubauer.
1203
01:14:09,195 --> 01:14:10,651
My understanding is that
1204
01:14:10,696 --> 01:14:13,859
they are a very,
very powerful organization
1205
01:14:13,908 --> 01:14:17,697
with very deep
political connections.
1206
01:14:21,749 --> 01:14:23,205
'Thank you for calling
1207
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:26,333
the Jewish Board of Family
and Children Services.'
1208
01:14:26,379 --> 01:14:28,495
'Hello.'
1209
01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:32,006
Yes, hi. My name is David Kellman, er...
1210
01:14:32,051 --> 01:14:36,420
and apparently, I was a,
one of the subjects of a study,
1211
01:14:36,472 --> 01:14:39,590
run by the Child Development Center
many years ago,
1212
01:14:39,642 --> 01:14:42,350
and it's being kept at Yale University.
1213
01:14:42,395 --> 01:14:46,013
- 'Yes?'
- And on their website it says
1214
01:14:46,065 --> 01:14:48,432
that I would need permission
from the board
1215
01:14:48,484 --> 01:14:51,021
in order to gain access
to those records,
1216
01:14:51,070 --> 01:14:54,608
and somehow
the receptionist got me to you.
1217
01:14:54,657 --> 01:14:56,864
'Huh, okay. Er...
1218
01:14:56,909 --> 01:14:59,697
I'm not aware of any of that stuff
or when the study was,
1219
01:14:59,745 --> 01:15:00,951
but I can...'
1220
01:15:00,997 --> 01:15:02,362
There have been a number of journalists
1221
01:15:02,415 --> 01:15:04,702
and as far as I know,
some of the twins
1222
01:15:04,750 --> 01:15:06,536
that were involved in this study
1223
01:15:06,585 --> 01:15:08,872
who have tried to gain access
to this material.
1224
01:15:19,306 --> 01:15:21,843
So far as I know
they haven't been able to see
1225
01:15:21,892 --> 01:15:24,429
the results of this study.
1226
01:15:24,478 --> 01:15:27,311
Is there a way that I can go
directly to someone
1227
01:15:27,356 --> 01:15:29,393
that would be able
to provide access to me,
1228
01:15:29,442 --> 01:15:31,774
as I was one of the subjects
within the study?
1229
01:15:31,819 --> 01:15:35,562
If anybody should have the right
to see all this material,
1230
01:15:35,614 --> 01:15:36,979
it's the people that were actually
1231
01:15:37,033 --> 01:15:38,398
the subject of the study.
1232
01:15:38,451 --> 01:15:40,067
They should know what was learned.
1233
01:15:41,412 --> 01:15:43,119
'I mean, I have no idea
1234
01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:47,408
who would even be the one
to ask right now.
1235
01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:48,950
I would need to look into that.'
1236
01:15:49,003 --> 01:15:52,496
Okay, so you're the first line
of defense, so to speak.
1237
01:15:52,548 --> 01:15:54,334
'I guess, yeah.'
1238
01:15:54,383 --> 01:15:57,751
Okay, I will send an email to you.
I'll put at the subject line,
1239
01:15:57,803 --> 01:16:01,762
is going to be, er... "Twin Studies".
1240
01:16:01,807 --> 01:16:04,139
'Gotcha.'
1241
01:16:05,478 --> 01:16:09,267
Louise Wise Services is long closed.
1242
01:16:10,483 --> 01:16:13,191
Peter Neubauer passed away.
1243
01:16:15,821 --> 01:16:19,030
And yet we still don't know exactly
1244
01:16:19,075 --> 01:16:23,911
what they were looking for,
or what they found out.
1245
01:16:44,141 --> 01:16:46,098
I'm a Clinical Psychologist
1246
01:16:46,143 --> 01:16:52,640
and I was a research assistant
on Peter Neubauer's study.
1247
01:16:52,691 --> 01:16:55,604
I believe I am the only person
1248
01:16:55,653 --> 01:16:57,644
who worked on this study
1249
01:16:57,696 --> 01:16:59,278
who is willing
1250
01:16:59,323 --> 01:17:01,906
to go on record
1251
01:17:01,951 --> 01:17:03,407
about what was done.
1252
01:17:05,746 --> 01:17:07,362
I was 24.
1253
01:17:07,414 --> 01:17:10,702
This is essentially my first job.
1254
01:17:15,714 --> 01:17:21,255
You know, you had to be careful
to not let on that, er...
1255
01:17:21,303 --> 01:17:25,388
"Gee, you look just like your,
your twin brother."
1256
01:17:25,432 --> 01:17:30,427
I would've been fired on the spot, right?
1257
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:32,015
It was a little tempting, yeah,
1258
01:17:32,064 --> 01:17:33,600
there was, there was
a little bit of temptation.
1259
01:17:33,649 --> 01:17:37,062
It's like,
"Hey, I, I know your twin.
1260
01:17:37,111 --> 01:17:43,198
I saw somebody a week ago
who was exactly like you."
1261
01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:49,738
The question whether
I feel guilty is interesting
1262
01:17:49,790 --> 01:17:54,330
because I never felt a responsibility.
1263
01:17:55,629 --> 01:17:59,293
I came on after this was designed.
1264
01:17:59,341 --> 01:18:01,378
However, I was a participant,
1265
01:18:01,427 --> 01:18:06,012
so you could say I was
ethically compromised by that.
1266
01:18:06,056 --> 01:18:12,928
In retrospect I think it was
undoubtedly ethically wrong.
1267
01:18:16,317 --> 01:18:19,776
I got some notes here. okay.
1268
01:18:20,362 --> 01:18:21,852
Okay.
1269
01:18:30,623 --> 01:18:33,285
These are my actual original notes,
1270
01:18:33,334 --> 01:18:36,747
copies of psychologicals that I did.
1271
01:18:36,795 --> 01:18:40,038
And who in, who in
particular are in these files?
1272
01:18:40,090 --> 01:18:42,377
Well, I have the triplets.
1273
01:18:45,179 --> 01:18:47,546
Hmm... Oh, here we go.
1274
01:18:47,598 --> 01:18:50,135
I, I'm not gonna mention
the name, but, er...
1275
01:18:51,602 --> 01:18:53,468
"He's a loud, energetic boy.
1276
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,477
His need to establish his autonomy
1277
01:18:55,522 --> 01:18:57,058
takes to the form of showing off,
1278
01:18:57,107 --> 01:18:59,724
both his intelligence and his strength,
1279
01:18:59,777 --> 01:19:03,361
and putting down others
including his parents."
1280
01:19:05,783 --> 01:19:09,367
Yeah, this one's eager
to show off his new bicycle
1281
01:19:09,411 --> 01:19:14,372
and all of his sports equipment
while if timed him.
1282
01:19:14,416 --> 01:19:17,124
He was very intense in his play
1283
01:19:17,169 --> 01:19:22,380
and got quite... rough.
1284
01:19:22,424 --> 01:19:24,210
This kid had some problems.
1285
01:19:26,887 --> 01:19:29,254
Hyper aggressiveness.
1286
01:19:31,225 --> 01:19:32,431
Okay, so apparently,
1287
01:19:32,476 --> 01:19:33,841
these parents are not cognizant
1288
01:19:33,894 --> 01:19:36,306
of his problems,
nor are they able to help him
1289
01:19:36,355 --> 01:19:37,891
understand his weaknesses
1290
01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:41,478
and establish more appropriate
control over his actions.
1291
01:19:41,527 --> 01:19:45,816
So, I didn't think the parents
were very tuned in
1292
01:19:45,864 --> 01:19:48,526
to the struggles
this youngster was having.
1293
01:19:52,371 --> 01:19:54,408
What were the findings of the study?
1294
01:19:54,456 --> 01:19:59,417
I have no idea because
I left the study after 10 months
1295
01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:02,795
and the results were never published.
1296
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:07,508
All I have is my little, tiny piece.
1297
01:20:07,553 --> 01:20:11,137
It's a mystery, it's a huge loss.
1298
01:20:11,181 --> 01:20:13,548
All this important scientific data
1299
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,434
is just buried in these archives.
1300
01:20:19,148 --> 01:20:21,606
So, some people have speculated
1301
01:20:21,650 --> 01:20:24,267
that the purpose of the study,
ultimate purpose,
1302
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,186
was looking at mental health.
1303
01:20:26,238 --> 01:20:32,359
I... there was, there was never
a mention of mental health
1304
01:20:32,411 --> 01:20:38,874
of the biological parents
when I was in the study.
1305
01:20:40,461 --> 01:20:43,419
We were not interested
in mental health,
1306
01:20:43,464 --> 01:20:46,331
that's not what we were interested in.
1307
01:20:46,383 --> 01:20:49,045
We were looking
for differences in parenting.
1308
01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:57,593
We wanted to understand
parenting practices
1309
01:20:57,644 --> 01:21:00,056
and how it would affect development.
1310
01:21:01,857 --> 01:21:03,723
So, you're saying
they were interested more
1311
01:21:03,776 --> 01:21:05,642
in the family dynamics?
1312
01:21:05,694 --> 01:21:08,812
But they couldn't have known that.
They didn't know
1313
01:21:08,864 --> 01:21:10,821
how the families were going to interact
1314
01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:13,233
with this newly-adopted child.
1315
01:21:13,285 --> 01:21:15,572
The only way they could possibly know
1316
01:21:15,621 --> 01:21:17,828
about the family dynamics
1317
01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:21,992
was if they already had a child
placed in that family.
1318
01:21:22,044 --> 01:21:23,955
'Another astonishing coincidence
1319
01:21:24,004 --> 01:21:26,086
in this story is that each of the brothers
1320
01:21:26,131 --> 01:21:28,964
grew up in their families
with an adopted sister,
1321
01:21:29,009 --> 01:21:32,218
all the girls now 21 years old.'
1322
01:21:35,182 --> 01:21:38,470
The triplets,
they all had an older sibling.
1323
01:21:38,519 --> 01:21:39,725
They were placed in families
1324
01:21:39,770 --> 01:21:42,228
where there was an older
adopted child
1325
01:21:42,272 --> 01:21:45,139
that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.
1326
01:21:47,069 --> 01:21:49,481
That was part of the design.
1327
01:22:06,964 --> 01:22:09,581
It's good to see you.
1328
01:22:09,633 --> 01:22:11,795
It's good to see you.
1329
01:22:13,303 --> 01:22:15,510
I'd just like to
show you guys a clip.
1330
01:22:15,556 --> 01:22:19,720
It's Lawrence Perlman,
who was a Researcher on the study.
1331
01:22:25,023 --> 01:22:27,515
'What were the findings of the study?
1332
01:22:27,568 --> 01:22:32,529
I have no idea because
they were never published.
1333
01:22:32,573 --> 01:22:35,782
We were looking for
differences in parenting.
1334
01:22:35,826 --> 01:22:40,070
We wanted to understand
parenting practices
1335
01:22:40,122 --> 01:22:41,863
and how it would affect development.
1336
01:22:41,915 --> 01:22:44,282
The triplets were placed in families
1337
01:22:44,334 --> 01:22:46,951
where there was an older adopted child
1338
01:22:47,004 --> 01:22:50,963
that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.
1339
01:22:51,008 --> 01:22:55,878
That was part of the design.'
1340
01:22:55,929 --> 01:22:57,966
How do you feel watching that?
1341
01:22:58,015 --> 01:23:02,009
Like a lab rat.
1342
01:23:04,521 --> 01:23:08,059
It, it only just makes it that much...
it just only...
1343
01:23:08,108 --> 01:23:09,439
It just makes it...
1344
01:23:09,485 --> 01:23:12,193
- That much worse.
- ...much more duplicitous.
1345
01:23:13,238 --> 01:23:14,273
Er...
1346
01:23:14,323 --> 01:23:15,779
They're not just studying the kids,
1347
01:23:15,824 --> 01:23:19,033
but they're studying the parents.
1348
01:23:19,077 --> 01:23:23,947
So, they did in fact know the
parenting style of each parent.
1349
01:23:23,999 --> 01:23:25,285
So, this was not, you know...
1350
01:23:25,334 --> 01:23:28,372
Obviously it was far
from a random selection.
1351
01:23:28,420 --> 01:23:32,334
They knew exactly
who they had chosen
1352
01:23:32,382 --> 01:23:38,219
to place each one of us with
when they called the Gallands,
1353
01:23:38,263 --> 01:23:42,006
and the Kellmans, and the Shafrans.
1354
01:23:50,776 --> 01:23:54,895
In terms of how
they parented their children
1355
01:23:54,947 --> 01:23:56,563
the three families
1356
01:23:56,615 --> 01:23:59,152
were quite, quite different.
1357
01:23:59,201 --> 01:24:00,908
Er...
1358
01:24:00,953 --> 01:24:03,741
David's father stood out.
1359
01:24:03,789 --> 01:24:06,497
There was nobody in the world
like his son.
1360
01:24:06,542 --> 01:24:12,458
He was so proud of him.
Whatever he did was wonderful.
1361
01:24:12,506 --> 01:24:18,627
Bobby's father was very busy as a doctor
1362
01:24:18,679 --> 01:24:23,515
and didn't have the time
to be with Bobby
1363
01:24:23,559 --> 01:24:25,675
that David's father had,
1364
01:24:25,727 --> 01:24:29,391
but was as devoted to him as possible.
1365
01:24:31,275 --> 01:24:34,188
The most traditional was Eddy's father...
1366
01:24:36,196 --> 01:24:40,656
...who was rather strict.
He was the boss.
1367
01:24:40,701 --> 01:24:43,739
He made the rules and Eddy
was supposed to follow.
1368
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:49,623
Eddy's relationship with his father...
1369
01:24:52,462 --> 01:24:55,295
...it couldn't have been good.
1370
01:24:58,885 --> 01:25:02,469
And that matters.
1371
01:25:02,514 --> 01:25:05,677
And why do you say
it couldn't have been good?
1372
01:25:05,726 --> 01:25:10,471
Because otherwise,
I would have known him,
1373
01:25:10,522 --> 01:25:11,887
we would have seen him,
1374
01:25:11,940 --> 01:25:15,308
Eddy would have talked about him.
1375
01:25:27,998 --> 01:25:32,287
This was the last picture
we ever had of Edward.
1376
01:25:32,336 --> 01:25:34,452
He was very gregarious.
1377
01:25:34,504 --> 01:25:37,337
He got into all the things
young boys do.
1378
01:25:37,382 --> 01:25:39,589
He wrecked a car
1379
01:25:39,635 --> 01:25:43,594
and a few things
like that, but...
1380
01:25:43,639 --> 01:25:48,475
I mean, occasionally I disciplined him.
1381
01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:53,228
Eddy and his dad
were very different as people.
1382
01:25:53,273 --> 01:25:58,689
Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid,
you know, he wasn't into sports.
1383
01:25:58,737 --> 01:26:01,820
Elliott had a very strong militaristic
1384
01:26:01,865 --> 01:26:05,153
kind of approach to life, very traditional.
1385
01:26:05,202 --> 01:26:07,739
He was a teacher,
he was all about punctuality.
1386
01:26:08,747 --> 01:26:13,958
I was a strict disciplinarian,
1387
01:26:14,002 --> 01:26:18,337
and my children unfortunately
1388
01:26:18,382 --> 01:26:21,124
had me as a strict disciplinarian too.
1389
01:26:24,429 --> 01:26:26,511
Eddy said he always
sort of didn't feel
1390
01:26:26,556 --> 01:26:30,720
like he fit in with his family.
1391
01:26:32,979 --> 01:26:38,816
He always felt like,
like he wasn't in the right place.
1392
01:26:42,823 --> 01:26:44,780
How much did you have any sense
1393
01:26:44,825 --> 01:26:48,363
that Edward was unhappy?
1394
01:26:48,412 --> 01:26:51,905
He didn't discuss
his problems with me.
1395
01:26:57,462 --> 01:26:59,999
We were a rather quiet family.
1396
01:27:00,048 --> 01:27:05,043
We didn't tell our problems
to one another.
1397
01:27:07,180 --> 01:27:11,845
We protected each other.
It was a nice family.
1398
01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:20,224
Some people are just not a good fit.
1399
01:27:25,323 --> 01:27:28,532
It wasn't his father's fault.
1400
01:27:28,577 --> 01:27:34,619
Elliot did what he believed
to be best as a parent.
1401
01:27:34,666 --> 01:27:37,875
They were just different people.
1402
01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:43,039
I got the phone call from...
I believe it was Bobby.
1403
01:27:43,091 --> 01:27:47,210
And he told me to sit down
1404
01:27:47,262 --> 01:27:50,220
and I said no need to.
1405
01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:53,553
And he told me about it.
1406
01:27:53,602 --> 01:27:58,813
And then standing right there
1407
01:27:58,857 --> 01:28:02,145
I went over to my wife
1408
01:28:02,194 --> 01:28:07,064
and told her Edward
had committed suicide.
1409
01:28:07,115 --> 01:28:12,110
And we stood there
for quite a while, crying.
1410
01:28:16,708 --> 01:28:23,045
And... that was it.
1411
01:28:35,268 --> 01:28:40,138
I often wondered whether
I didn't teach him something...
1412
01:28:42,818 --> 01:28:46,231
...because of the way he left.
1413
01:28:47,739 --> 01:28:49,025
I don't know.
1414
01:28:49,074 --> 01:28:52,408
Maybe I didn't teach him something,
1415
01:28:52,452 --> 01:28:55,820
how to live life or something.
1416
01:28:55,872 --> 01:28:59,456
That bothers me occasionally.
1417
01:29:09,886 --> 01:29:14,596
Why did the boys' lives
turn out completely different?
1418
01:29:14,641 --> 01:29:16,097
I don't need to read any books,
1419
01:29:16,142 --> 01:29:18,509
I don't need to read any studies.
1420
01:29:19,938 --> 01:29:24,057
I saw it first hand
with those three boys.
1421
01:29:27,362 --> 01:29:29,353
It's all about nurture.
1422
01:29:43,545 --> 01:29:44,910
'These three young men
1423
01:29:44,963 --> 01:29:47,671
they are all seated
in the same position.'
1424
01:29:49,009 --> 01:29:50,545
We found
a lot of similarities
1425
01:29:50,594 --> 01:29:53,211
because that's what people
were looking for.
1426
01:29:53,263 --> 01:29:54,879
They smoke the same
kind of cigarettes.
1427
01:29:54,931 --> 01:29:56,171
You say, "Oh my God,
1428
01:29:56,224 --> 01:29:58,807
they're smoking Marlboros,
that's amazing."
1429
01:29:58,852 --> 01:30:01,219
What you're not looking for
are their differences.
1430
01:30:01,271 --> 01:30:03,228
'I can't get over it, I'm telling you.
1431
01:30:03,273 --> 01:30:04,729
You all wrestled at one time?'
1432
01:30:04,774 --> 01:30:05,855
'Yes.'
1433
01:30:05,901 --> 01:30:08,768
We found the ways
that we were alike
1434
01:30:08,820 --> 01:30:12,188
and we emphasized them
and we wanted to be alike.
1435
01:30:13,825 --> 01:30:16,658
We were falling in love
with each other.
1436
01:30:16,703 --> 01:30:20,241
I think there were superficialities.
1437
01:30:20,290 --> 01:30:24,284
They liked the same things
and they had similar interests,
1438
01:30:24,336 --> 01:30:27,203
but deep down they were different.
1439
01:30:28,882 --> 01:30:33,968
They were not a case study
of biology being destiny.
1440
01:30:38,767 --> 01:30:42,726
I've come to believe
genes and the environment
1441
01:30:42,771 --> 01:30:46,230
are close competitors.
1442
01:30:48,777 --> 01:30:51,735
You could say that we drift
in the direction
1443
01:30:51,780 --> 01:30:55,694
that our genes tell us to go
1444
01:30:55,742 --> 01:30:58,404
but it doesn't mean you are destined
1445
01:30:58,453 --> 01:31:01,445
to be one person or another.
1446
01:31:05,961 --> 01:31:10,330
I believe that I'm still here today
1447
01:31:10,382 --> 01:31:14,751
because of the foundation that
was given to me by my parents.
1448
01:31:14,803 --> 01:31:19,297
I believe that absolutely
made a difference
1449
01:31:19,349 --> 01:31:21,215
in terms of struggling
1450
01:31:21,267 --> 01:31:23,099
with whatever demons
I struggle with.
1451
01:31:25,563 --> 01:31:31,354
I believe nature
and nurture both matter.
1452
01:31:31,403 --> 01:31:38,992
But I think nurture
can overcome nearly everything.
1453
01:32:13,987 --> 01:32:15,694
Because the study's
never been published
1454
01:32:15,739 --> 01:32:17,696
we simply don't know
definitively
1455
01:32:17,741 --> 01:32:22,030
how many people's lives
were separated in this fashion.
1456
01:32:22,078 --> 01:32:23,614
There may still be twins out there
1457
01:32:23,663 --> 01:32:26,451
who still don't know they are twins.
1458
01:32:27,751 --> 01:32:31,710
There are probably
at least four individuals
1459
01:32:31,755 --> 01:32:34,042
who were subjects of this study
1460
01:32:34,090 --> 01:32:37,879
who don't know
that they have a twin.
1461
01:32:37,927 --> 01:32:41,215
If they know that there
are still twins out there
1462
01:32:41,264 --> 01:32:46,600
that are missing out on life,
it boggles the mind.
1463
01:32:46,644 --> 01:32:48,760
There's two ways of thinking about it.
1464
01:32:48,813 --> 01:32:52,056
These people really should know
that there is a twin,
1465
01:32:52,108 --> 01:32:54,600
or, "Oh my God, these people
should not know
1466
01:32:54,652 --> 01:32:59,021
that they were used this way,
that will make them so upset."
1467
01:32:59,074 --> 01:33:03,193
Maybe this is why the study
cannot be published as yet,
1468
01:33:03,244 --> 01:33:05,406
until they're gone.
1469
01:33:07,499 --> 01:33:09,786
It really opens up the possibility.
1470
01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:11,950
Anybody can just
walk around the corner
1471
01:33:12,003 --> 01:33:15,667
and discover that you
have a twin out there.