1
00:00:42,083 --> 00:00:45,753
Reverend, you're on duty today.

2
00:00:47,130 --> 00:00:49,465
Can you think-
just think about the man

3
00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:53,135
whom you are going to encounter
in an hour from now,

4
00:00:53,136 --> 00:00:55,804
less than an hour from now.

5
00:00:55,805 --> 00:01:01,935
I really am going there
without any expectations.

6
00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:07,775
I'm going there to experience
what God has prepared for me,

7
00:01:07,776 --> 00:01:10,277
for him, for all of those involved,

8
00:01:10,278 --> 00:01:14,448
and I don't preconceive anything.

9
00:01:14,449 --> 00:01:15,949
Not today.

10
00:01:15,950 --> 00:01:19,411
I will let that happen as it occurs,

11
00:01:19,412 --> 00:01:21,914
as time gets there.

12
00:01:21,915 --> 00:01:25,167
We have a loving, caring,

13
00:01:25,168 --> 00:01:28,170
forgiving, merciful God,

14
00:01:28,171 --> 00:01:33,008
and in time of joy
and in time of need,

15
00:01:33,009 --> 00:01:35,803
in time of trial or tribulation,

16
00:01:35,804 --> 00:01:37,930
God is always there for us.

17
00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:40,933
I want to make that presence to them.

18
00:01:40,934 --> 00:01:44,686
And technically when he is led to the gurney,

19
00:01:44,687 --> 00:01:46,355
what is your duty then?

20
00:01:46,356 --> 00:01:48,690
After everything is completed,

21
00:01:48,691 --> 00:01:50,567
as far as the preparation,

22
00:01:50,568 --> 00:01:55,072
then I walk over, and I stand
as he has allowed me to stand.

23
00:01:55,073 --> 00:01:59,118
I always ask permission
to be able to stand at his feet

24
00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,786
and hold his ankle,

25
00:02:00,787 --> 00:02:03,288
and I move toward that position,

26
00:02:03,289 --> 00:02:05,958
and I place my hand on his ankle,

27
00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:10,129
and then that's what- what I do

28
00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:12,131
until death occurs.

29
00:02:13,967 --> 00:02:16,218
And if there is no family interested

30
00:02:16,219 --> 00:02:17,845
in taking care of the body,

31
00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:20,848
the condemned men would end up
right behind you?

32
00:02:20,849 --> 00:02:24,143
Yes, they end up here
at the state cemetery,

33
00:02:24,144 --> 00:02:26,145
and they're buried by the state.

34
00:02:27,313 --> 00:02:31,275
No names on the crosses, only numbers.

35
00:02:36,781 --> 00:02:42,119
Why does God allow capital punishment?

36
00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:46,957
I don't know the answer.

37
00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:51,753
I believe that there's always a purpose

38
00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:55,299
why God allows things to happen.

39
00:02:57,302 --> 00:03:00,971
God has created so many things
in this world.

40
00:03:02,265 --> 00:03:04,516
I play golf sometimes.

41
00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:07,269
I love to be on the golf course,

42
00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:12,441
because one thing I do,
I put my phone on a silent mode.

43
00:03:12,442 --> 00:03:16,862
I go out there sometimes by myself
with no distractions,

44
00:03:16,863 --> 00:03:19,031
and I can see the beautiful grass.

45
00:03:19,032 --> 00:03:22,201
I can see the squirrels,
from time to time, running.

46
00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:24,203
Sometimes the deer are running.

47
00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:26,997
Sometimes I look across the golf course,

48
00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:31,126
and I see a cow or a horse,
and- and I- and I stop,

49
00:03:31,127 --> 00:03:35,672
and I acknowledge life.

50
00:03:35,673 --> 00:03:37,507
Life,

51
00:03:37,508 --> 00:03:39,927
the things that God has created.

52
00:03:39,928 --> 00:03:43,513
Please describe an encounter with a squirrel.

53
00:03:43,514 --> 00:03:44,973
An encounter with a squirrel,

54
00:03:44,974 --> 00:03:47,559
I was driving the golf cart,
and I was on the golf-

55
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,562
on the cart path,
and I saw two squirrels.

56
00:03:50,563 --> 00:03:53,232
They were chasing each other,
and as I was getting closer,

57
00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:55,025
they were running across the cart path,

58
00:03:55,026 --> 00:03:56,568
and I put on my brakes,

59
00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:58,654
and they stopped
in the middle of the cart path

60
00:03:58,655 --> 00:04:02,032
and looked at me, and I said,
"How about this?

61
00:04:02,033 --> 00:04:03,408
"If I wouldn't have stopped,

62
00:04:03,409 --> 00:04:05,994
"I could have run over
one of these squirrels.

63
00:04:05,995 --> 00:04:08,247
Their life would have ended."

64
00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:10,249
And that reminds me...

65
00:04:15,338 --> 00:04:19,925
of the many people that I have been with

66
00:04:19,926 --> 00:04:23,887
in their last breath of life,

67
00:04:23,888 --> 00:04:30,185
and due to bad choices and mistakes
in their life, they-

68
00:04:30,186 --> 00:04:34,439
their life is taken away
in that moment.

69
00:04:35,942 --> 00:04:41,947
So life is precious,
whether it's a squirrel

70
00:04:41,948 --> 00:04:44,783
or a human being.

71
00:04:44,784 --> 00:04:50,580
So I will sometimes meditate
on that experience.

72
00:04:50,581 --> 00:04:54,793
Make a little noise,
and the squirrels will take off

73
00:04:54,794 --> 00:04:56,920
and continue their life,

74
00:04:56,921 --> 00:04:58,839
but I cannot do that.

75
00:05:02,343 --> 00:05:05,512
For someone on the gurney,

76
00:05:05,513 --> 00:05:10,767
I cannot stop the process for them.

77
00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:17,607
But I wish I could.

78
00:07:40,585 --> 00:07:42,043
Good, yeah.

79
00:07:42,044 --> 00:07:43,420
You are not wired yet,

80
00:07:43,421 --> 00:07:45,672
so we have to wire you first.

81
00:08:13,576 --> 00:08:15,494
Michael Perry, now from all of us,

82
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:16,870
the whole team here,

83
00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:19,664
we would like to offer our condolences.

84
00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,793
Your father passed away.

85
00:08:23,794 --> 00:08:25,462
Right, on the 10th.

86
00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,005
My dad died 13 days ago.

87
00:08:27,006 --> 00:08:28,381
13 days ago.

88
00:08:28,382 --> 00:08:29,758
Yeah, on June 10th.

89
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,260
But you will die
or you are scheduled for execution...

90
00:08:32,261 --> 00:08:33,678
Right.

91
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,680
- in only eight days.
- Yes, sir.

92
00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:37,474
How are you doing?

93
00:08:37,475 --> 00:08:39,684
You know- You know, I'm a Christian,
so, you know,

94
00:08:39,685 --> 00:08:41,478
I believe that, you know, paradise awaits

95
00:08:41,479 --> 00:08:43,855
one way or the other,
so I tell people all the time,

96
00:08:43,856 --> 00:08:46,650
I'm either going home or home, so...

97
00:08:46,651 --> 00:08:49,152
I'm either going home to the world
or home to God,

98
00:08:49,153 --> 00:08:52,030
so I- you know,
as the days get closer,

99
00:08:52,031 --> 00:08:54,658
I can feel the pressure on my shoulders.

100
00:08:54,659 --> 00:08:57,160
They call it clinical depression
where I just start having

101
00:08:57,161 --> 00:09:00,747
less motivation to do things,
less energy.

102
00:09:00,748 --> 00:09:02,666
You get frustrated at the-
at the system.

103
00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:08,046
How can they not see, you know,
my situation is wrong?

104
00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:09,756
You know, I- I used to write
all the time

105
00:09:09,757 --> 00:09:11,258
and have a lot of energy,

106
00:09:11,259 --> 00:09:12,717
and I just don't have it anymore.

107
00:09:12,718 --> 00:09:14,928
I just feel like I've been beaten down.

108
00:09:14,929 --> 00:09:18,557
I have the feeling that destiny, in a way,

109
00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:22,227
has dealt you a very bad deck of cards.

110
00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,354
It does not exonerate you,

111
00:09:24,355 --> 00:09:26,815
and- and when I talk to you,

112
00:09:26,816 --> 00:09:30,569
it does not necessarily mean
that I have to like you,

113
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:33,071
but I respect you,
and you are a human being,

114
00:09:33,072 --> 00:09:35,490
and I think human beings
should not be executed.

115
00:09:35,791 --> 00:09:36,950
As simply as that.

116
00:09:36,951 --> 00:09:38,243
Right.

117
00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:06,891
Lieutenant, this looks idyllic and safe.

118
00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:08,351
Well, and you would think that.

119
00:12:08,352 --> 00:12:10,186
This is a gated community, obviously.

120
00:12:10,187 --> 00:12:13,857
The houses that are out here
are very large houses,

121
00:12:13,858 --> 00:12:15,233
very expensive houses,

122
00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:16,693
and you would think
that this is-

123
00:12:16,694 --> 00:12:18,069
this is a very quiet area,

124
00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:23,491
and you would, I guess,
associate that with security.

125
00:12:23,492 --> 00:12:25,660
But this house right here
is actually the house

126
00:12:25,661 --> 00:12:28,413
where Sandra Stotler was murdered.

127
00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:32,041
This is where Michael Perry and Jason Burkett

128
00:12:32,042 --> 00:12:33,418
parked out on the street

129
00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:36,379
and went in and- and murdered her.

130
00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:37,797
At the time that we found her,

131
00:12:37,798 --> 00:12:39,257
she was actually baking cookies,

132
00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:40,717
and there was evidence of that.

133
00:12:40,718 --> 00:12:42,218
There was- There was cookies out.

134
00:12:42,219 --> 00:12:44,637
There was cookie dough out.

135
00:12:44,638 --> 00:12:48,349
So she was in the process of that
when she was killed.

136
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:52,729
But apparently the first plan
was not murder.

137
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:55,690
Well, and that was something
that we were told,

138
00:12:55,691 --> 00:12:58,359
that initially the-
the boys were all-

139
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,029
when I say "boys,"
Michael Perry, Jason Burkett,

140
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:02,697
Adam Stotler, and Jeremy Richardson-

141
00:13:02,698 --> 00:13:04,115
they were acquaintances

142
00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:06,117
through, you know, some mutual friends.

143
00:13:06,118 --> 00:13:08,077
They weren't really friends themselves,

144
00:13:08,078 --> 00:13:09,662
but they- they were acquaintances,

145
00:13:09,663 --> 00:13:14,292
and what we were told was-
is that they came here

146
00:13:14,293 --> 00:13:17,629
with the intention of trying
to get Adam Stotler

147
00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:19,088
to allow them to stay the night

148
00:13:19,089 --> 00:13:21,132
by telling them they didn't have
a place to stay,

149
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:23,885
and they were going to try
to get the keys to the car

150
00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,303
and steal it.

151
00:13:25,304 --> 00:13:26,721
That's what they were after,

152
00:13:26,722 --> 00:13:30,099
was the red Camaro
that was in the garage.

153
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,435
Upon going to the door
and talking to the mother,

154
00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:34,729
and she said that they were out,
the boys were out,

155
00:13:34,730 --> 00:13:36,105
and so they left,

156
00:13:36,106 --> 00:13:37,649
and that's when their plan changed,

157
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,860
that they were just going to kill her
and take the car.

158
00:13:40,861 --> 00:13:43,196
So they went back up to the door,

159
00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:45,031
and the garage was open,

160
00:13:45,032 --> 00:13:47,700
and the door going into the house was open.

161
00:13:47,701 --> 00:13:50,119
Michael Perry, by his own admission,

162
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,455
entered that garage door
and went into the laundry room

163
00:13:52,456 --> 00:13:55,124
at the time that Jason Burkett
knocked on the front door.

164
00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:56,543
And as their truck was out here,

165
00:13:56,544 --> 00:13:58,336
he told them that the truck wouldn't start

166
00:13:58,337 --> 00:14:01,631
and they needed to call someone
to come and assist them.

167
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:03,716
So she let him in the house
to use the telephone,

168
00:14:03,717 --> 00:14:05,093
and while he was doing that,

169
00:14:05,094 --> 00:14:07,053
Michael Perry stepped out
of the laundry room

170
00:14:07,054 --> 00:14:09,472
and knocked on the back garage door,

171
00:14:09,473 --> 00:14:11,558
which made her come and answer it,

172
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,977
and he stepped out from the laundry room
from behind her,

173
00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:15,895
and that's when he shot her.

174
00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:21,192
The actual garage door itself was open

175
00:14:21,193 --> 00:14:23,820
when our deputies arrived on the scene.

176
00:15:27,176 --> 00:15:28,551
The master bedroom,

177
00:15:28,552 --> 00:15:30,219
which is in the back part of the house

178
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:32,055
behind the garage over here,

179
00:15:32,056 --> 00:15:34,557
they went in,
and they took the top bedding,

180
00:15:34,558 --> 00:15:37,226
the blanket and the-
the top sheet,

181
00:15:37,227 --> 00:15:39,562
and that's what they wrapped her in.

182
00:15:39,563 --> 00:15:41,397
They brought her out,
put her in the truck,

183
00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:43,733
and they drove her out to Crater Lake

184
00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:45,568
to dispose of her body.

185
00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:49,364
And how does it happen?

186
00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:50,949
Was it drugs?

187
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,742
You know, I don't know
that there was ever

188
00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:54,911
any direct evidence as far as, you know,

189
00:15:54,912 --> 00:15:56,913
drugs relating particularly to this case.

190
00:15:56,914 --> 00:16:00,583
I mean, honestly, it was just-
you know, they had a car.

191
00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:02,835
You know, this lady owned a car
that they wanted,

192
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,296
so, you know, it was-

193
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:08,341
unfortunately, you know,
people died for a theft.

194
00:16:29,196 --> 00:16:30,571
Other than it being dark,

195
00:16:30,572 --> 00:16:33,950
this is pretty much
the way it was

196
00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:35,743
that night when we came out here.

197
00:16:47,339 --> 00:16:51,134
You'll see all kinds of debris
and trash here, as I said.

198
00:16:51,135 --> 00:16:56,264
This is- was pretty commonly used
for a dumping ground.

199
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:59,225
They've pulled lots of vehicles
out of- out of Crater Lake.

200
00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:01,728
We've had, actually,
a few other bodies

201
00:17:01,729 --> 00:17:05,148
that we've- that we've gotten out
of Crater Lake.

202
00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:07,316
This is Crater Lake here.

203
00:17:07,317 --> 00:17:08,818
This little area right here,

204
00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:13,489
this is where the tire treads in the dirt
was actually here.

205
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,326
At the time that they first
came down here,

206
00:17:17,327 --> 00:17:19,287
they actually backed up to that

207
00:17:19,288 --> 00:17:20,913
and tried to slam on their brakes,

208
00:17:20,914 --> 00:17:22,749
hoping to eject the body in the water,

209
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:24,500
and that didn't work, so, again,

210
00:17:24,501 --> 00:17:26,377
that was just something that-
that we heard.

211
00:17:26,378 --> 00:17:28,838
I don't know that that's actually
what happened,

212
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:30,840
but you could tell from-

213
00:17:30,841 --> 00:17:33,676
there wasn't any distinct
tire wear in the ground.

214
00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:35,511
You could just tell that a tire-

215
00:17:35,512 --> 00:17:38,347
tires had been spinning there, so...

216
00:17:38,348 --> 00:17:39,849
So it seemed to fit the story,

217
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,768
but they ended up getting the body

218
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:44,145
and- and carrying it out here,

219
00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:46,439
and it was just dropped in the water.

220
00:18:54,967 --> 00:18:57,301
We didn't know when we processed
the scene here

221
00:18:57,302 --> 00:19:00,388
and when we processed
Sandra Stotler's residence,

222
00:19:00,389 --> 00:19:01,764
we still did not know

223
00:19:01,765 --> 00:19:03,766
that we had any other victims
other than her.

224
00:19:08,772 --> 00:19:12,066
This is the gated community of Highland Ranch.

225
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,277
Inside those gates is the house

226
00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:18,072
where Sandra Stotler was murdered.

227
00:19:18,073 --> 00:19:20,825
When Michael Perry and Jason Burkett
came back here

228
00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:22,952
to get the Camaro
that they were after,

229
00:19:22,953 --> 00:19:24,787
these gates were-
were shut and locked,

230
00:19:24,788 --> 00:19:26,497
so they didn't have access to it,

231
00:19:26,498 --> 00:19:28,916
so they waited around and parked

232
00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:33,379
until Adam Stotler and Jeremy Richardson
returned home,

233
00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:36,924
and that's when they got them
to come out in the woods with them

234
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:39,594
and- and murdered them
so that they could get

235
00:19:39,595 --> 00:19:42,054
basically the clicker
to come back and get access in-

236
00:19:42,055 --> 00:19:43,431
you know, into this gate

237
00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:45,016
so that they could go back
to the house

238
00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:46,434
and take the Camaro.

239
00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:49,103
So only because they didn't have
the code here

240
00:19:49,104 --> 00:19:51,606
and it was closed at night,

241
00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:54,650
two more young people had to die.

242
00:19:54,651 --> 00:19:56,319
Yes, sir. That's correct.

243
00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:04,994
Lieutenant, Jason Burkett and Michael Perry

244
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:07,663
bragged about what they had done.

245
00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:10,958
How clear evidence was that?

246
00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:12,877
Well, because it came
from multiple people.

247
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:14,253
It wasn't just one.

248
00:20:14,254 --> 00:20:15,755
We got reports from several people

249
00:20:15,756 --> 00:20:17,131
from the different hangouts

250
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:19,091
that they had said
that they had killed people.

251
00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:20,843
That's how they got the vehicles.

252
00:21:11,186 --> 00:21:12,728
It was pretty convincing.

253
00:21:12,729 --> 00:21:14,397
I mean, we believed it.

254
00:21:14,398 --> 00:21:17,191
Although, again, we-
we didn't have evidence

255
00:21:17,192 --> 00:21:19,360
that we had other bodies at the time.

256
00:21:20,612 --> 00:21:22,697
Only after Perry confessed,

257
00:21:22,698 --> 00:21:26,450
he pointed you to the location
of the two young boys.

258
00:21:27,786 --> 00:21:29,120
Yes, sir.

259
00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:13,205
As soon as I found out my mother-

260
00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:14,582
her body had been found,

261
00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,917
that whole week is just a blur.

262
00:22:16,918 --> 00:22:18,294
I was watching the news.

263
00:22:18,295 --> 00:22:19,837
It was Monday morning,

264
00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:23,007
and I saw helicopters flying
over Ronny's truck stop here.

265
00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:27,595
Well, we live a mile,
and I had a glimmer of hope.

266
00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:31,098
I said, "Adam got away.
He's found his way home."

267
00:22:31,099 --> 00:22:33,934
Because that's the exit you'd get off
to come to my house.

268
00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:35,436
So I told my husband.

269
00:22:35,437 --> 00:22:37,480
I said, "Get in the car.
We're going down there."

270
00:22:37,481 --> 00:22:39,023
'Cause they showed the crime scene,

271
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:40,775
the helicopters.

272
00:22:40,776 --> 00:22:42,943
My brother's car was there on the news.

273
00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:44,612
So we went up to Ronny's truck stop,

274
00:22:44,613 --> 00:22:47,365
and I saw all that stuff on the car,

275
00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:49,116
and I'm like,
"Oh, that's not Adam's car.

276
00:22:49,117 --> 00:22:50,910
He doesn't have all that stuff on there."

277
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,620
"Stuff" meaning?

278
00:22:52,621 --> 00:22:55,164
- The stickers and the-
- "Gauge," "A.B."?

279
00:22:55,165 --> 00:22:56,582
Yeah, I saw all that stuff.

280
00:22:56,583 --> 00:22:58,250
I was like, "Oh, that's not his car."

281
00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:07,343
You know, and then I looked
at the license plate.

282
00:23:07,344 --> 00:23:09,595
The car was riddled with bullets,

283
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:14,517
and they had just chased them down

284
00:23:14,518 --> 00:23:17,144
and caught them at the apartment complex,

285
00:23:17,145 --> 00:23:20,606
and I was kind of trailing behind them,

286
00:23:20,607 --> 00:23:22,525
and they left to go to the hospital,

287
00:23:22,526 --> 00:23:24,985
and they told me-
I was like, "Please tell me,"

288
00:23:24,986 --> 00:23:27,863
because Adam had been missing now
since Wednesday,

289
00:23:27,864 --> 00:23:29,323
and it was now Monday, and I said,

290
00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:31,325
"Please tell me, was Adam with them?"

291
00:23:31,326 --> 00:23:32,827
And they said, "Adam got shot,

292
00:23:32,828 --> 00:23:35,246
and they took him to the hospital."

293
00:23:35,247 --> 00:23:39,208
Now, Michael Perry is still saying he's Adam.

294
00:23:39,209 --> 00:23:41,544
He got out of jail.
He bonded out of jail.

295
00:23:53,181 --> 00:23:55,850
Perry just had his lD.

296
00:23:55,851 --> 00:23:57,685
- You believed...
- I believed he was alive.

297
00:23:57,686 --> 00:23:59,353
your brother was safe, only wounded,

298
00:23:59,354 --> 00:24:02,189
because you were told Adam was safe...

299
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:03,566
Was shot.

300
00:24:03,567 --> 00:24:05,151
and shot but in hospital.

301
00:24:05,152 --> 00:24:07,028
And I- you know, I was like...

302
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:10,322
Thank God.

303
00:24:10,323 --> 00:24:11,824
So I started calling the hospitals

304
00:24:11,825 --> 00:24:14,034
trying to figure out
which hospital he was at,

305
00:24:14,035 --> 00:24:16,620
and I described him,
and she's like-

306
00:24:16,621 --> 00:24:18,414
I finally got a nurse
who would talk to me,

307
00:24:18,415 --> 00:24:21,417
and she's like,
"That's not the kid that's here, ma'am."

308
00:24:21,418 --> 00:24:26,797
But you had hopes, I mean,
substantial hopes

309
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:29,675
that your brother Adam
was wounded but safe.

310
00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:31,051
- Yes.
- Alive.

311
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:32,428
Yeah.

312
00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,430
And all of a sudden...

313
00:24:34,431 --> 00:24:37,099
My world was ripped out
from underneath me.

314
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,562
Everyone was gone.

315
00:24:45,734 --> 00:24:48,068
I called Lieutenant Davidson,

316
00:24:48,069 --> 00:24:51,739
and he told me to come down
to the police station,

317
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:53,282
and I told him,

318
00:24:53,283 --> 00:24:55,409
"I'm watching you on TV right now.

319
00:24:55,410 --> 00:24:57,912
Just tell me if that's Adam."

320
00:24:57,913 --> 00:24:59,580
And he said,
"I really would like you

321
00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:01,916
to come down to the station."

322
00:25:01,917 --> 00:25:03,876
And I said, "Just tell me."

323
00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:06,045
And he said, "Yeah, it's Adam."

324
00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:07,713
He said, "It's Adam,"

325
00:25:07,714 --> 00:25:10,466
and my knees gave out,

326
00:25:10,467 --> 00:25:13,469
and I never knew that your knees
really went weak, you know,

327
00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:15,554
but that saying is true,
"Weak in the knees."

328
00:25:15,555 --> 00:25:17,556
My knees went weak,
and I fell to the floor.

329
00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:29,735
This is Lindsey Lane.

330
00:25:29,736 --> 00:25:32,238
This is where we were directed
on this road

331
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:34,865
by Michael Perry in his confession

332
00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:36,992
that we would find
two additional bodies

333
00:25:36,993 --> 00:25:39,161
of Adam Stotler and Jeremy Richardson.

334
00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:45,543
We came down this road,
and then we split up.

335
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,919
We went to the end of the road,

336
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,004
and we actually walked back this way

337
00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,591
and discovered Adam's body.

338
00:26:00,350 --> 00:26:01,934
They lured them into this area

339
00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:04,228
by telling them that there was
a mutual friend of theirs

340
00:26:04,229 --> 00:26:06,564
that had gotten hurt
while they were hunting.

341
00:26:10,443 --> 00:26:13,529
This house obviously
was not here at the time.

342
00:26:13,530 --> 00:26:14,989
You can see, as this is coming out,

343
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,365
how it's coming around,

344
00:26:16,366 --> 00:26:18,867
so it's gonna be somewhere about-

345
00:26:18,868 --> 00:26:20,703
somewhere in that concrete
is gonna be

346
00:26:20,704 --> 00:26:22,705
about where his body was discovered.

347
00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:34,550
Once we actually processed the scene

348
00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:36,552
and we moved the body,
once we moved the body,

349
00:26:36,553 --> 00:26:39,138
there was a cigarette butt under it,
which we collected,

350
00:26:39,139 --> 00:26:42,558
and there was also another
cigarette butt close by,

351
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:44,143
but the one that was under his body,

352
00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:46,478
once we submitted it
to the state lab for DNA,

353
00:26:46,479 --> 00:26:48,981
it had Michael Perry's DNA on it.

354
00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:51,066
Which means the body had fallen-

355
00:26:51,067 --> 00:26:52,443
Had fallen on the cigarette

356
00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:54,486
after it was already discarded
on the ground.

357
00:26:56,615 --> 00:26:58,949
The other body was Jeremy Richardson.

358
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:01,285
From where we actually found his body,

359
00:27:01,286 --> 00:27:04,038
it was so dense with trees,
we couldn't even get into it.

360
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:05,998
I don't know how he got into it.

361
00:27:05,999 --> 00:27:08,542
We couldn't hardly even get into it
without taking machetes

362
00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:10,544
and- and cutting back
some of the brush.

363
00:27:13,757 --> 00:27:15,758
Jeremy, he ran for some distance

364
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:17,176
while he was being shot at.

365
00:27:17,177 --> 00:27:18,552
I don't know if it was 'cause

366
00:27:18,553 --> 00:27:20,888
he heard the gunshots here
and got startled,

367
00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,556
or if Jason pointed the shotgun at him,

368
00:27:22,557 --> 00:27:24,558
and he realized it
before he was actually shot,

369
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:26,226
and he took off running.

370
00:27:35,612 --> 00:27:39,615
Charles, you lost your brother, Jeremy.

371
00:27:39,616 --> 00:27:42,743
Do you remember the moment
when you heard about it?

372
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,872
I was in Georgia,

373
00:27:46,873 --> 00:27:49,625
and I got a phone call from my aunt

374
00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:52,044
saying for me to call home.

375
00:27:52,045 --> 00:27:53,754
Something bad had happened.

376
00:27:55,548 --> 00:27:56,924
I tried to call.

377
00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,259
I didn't have no money at the time,

378
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:01,428
and my phone wouldn't let me call
long distance,

379
00:28:01,429 --> 00:28:05,641
so I tried to call collect,
and my grandpa hung up on me.

380
00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:07,267
He didn't want to-

381
00:28:07,268 --> 00:28:09,603
he didn't even want to pay $2
to talk to me

382
00:28:09,604 --> 00:28:12,272
to tell me my brother was dead.

383
00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:17,236
I had to actually get my aunt to call

384
00:28:17,237 --> 00:28:18,904
and find out what was going on,

385
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:23,951
and then she called me back,
and my first thought was-

386
00:28:23,952 --> 00:28:26,412
just because on the phone she says,

387
00:28:26,413 --> 00:28:27,913
"Do you know Jason Burkett?"

388
00:28:27,914 --> 00:28:29,373
I said, "Yeah."

389
00:28:29,374 --> 00:28:31,125
She said, "Well, something's happened,

390
00:28:31,126 --> 00:28:34,336
and your brother's dead," and, uh...

391
00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:50,602
My- My first thought was, you know,

392
00:28:50,603 --> 00:28:54,106
Jason was just driving, being stupid

393
00:28:54,107 --> 00:28:57,943
the way he normally was
and had wrecked,

394
00:28:57,944 --> 00:28:59,319
and then she told me no,

395
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,406
that Jason shot my brother over a car.

396
00:29:03,616 --> 00:29:05,659
I- I just fell out.

397
00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:07,661
I fell out.

398
00:29:09,956 --> 00:29:13,751
My uncle came and picked me up, and, uh...

399
00:29:14,794 --> 00:29:17,296
We just went driving around.

400
00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:19,214
And your father?

401
00:29:19,215 --> 00:29:20,591
Where was he?

402
00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:22,259
He was in prison.

403
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,094
How serious?

404
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:27,306
Well, it was the first time

405
00:29:27,307 --> 00:29:30,976
he was in jail for murder,
in prison for murder.

406
00:29:30,977 --> 00:29:33,312
Life sentence?

407
00:29:33,313 --> 00:29:35,814
Well, no.

408
00:29:35,815 --> 00:29:39,485
He- He was doing
his 15-year sentence first,

409
00:29:39,486 --> 00:29:41,153
and then he was out for about a year,

410
00:29:41,154 --> 00:29:44,531
and then he went
and got a life sentence,

411
00:29:44,532 --> 00:29:46,784
and he's just getting out after that.

412
00:29:48,244 --> 00:29:50,913
And you flew in for the funeral?

413
00:29:50,914 --> 00:29:52,539
Yeah, I flew in for the funeral.

414
00:29:55,001 --> 00:30:00,005
The cops said I had jumped bond,
and the cops were there to-

415
00:30:00,006 --> 00:30:05,719
to take me to jail over my brother's-

416
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:10,098
Can I tell 'em what it was for or...

417
00:30:10,099 --> 00:30:12,100
I mean, would it be okay
to tell 'em,

418
00:30:12,101 --> 00:30:14,520
you know, it was a drug possession?

419
00:30:14,521 --> 00:30:17,022
So you took the jail time
for your brother,

420
00:30:17,023 --> 00:30:18,398
and you were arrested?

421
00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:20,067
Yeah, at the funeral.

422
00:30:20,068 --> 00:30:21,485
The cops came in there.

423
00:30:21,486 --> 00:30:25,656
There was six cops came in
and identified me

424
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:30,160
and told me they were gonna take me
to jail right then.

425
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:32,037
I asked them, you know,
could I at least stay

426
00:30:32,038 --> 00:30:34,039
for my brother's funeral.

427
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,542
And the teardrops, the tattoos,

428
00:30:36,543 --> 00:30:38,502
what do they signify?

429
00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:42,756
I lost my-
my brother and my sister.

430
00:30:42,757 --> 00:30:44,132
Brother murdered.

431
00:30:44,133 --> 00:30:46,593
Your sister, what happened to her?

432
00:30:46,594 --> 00:30:48,178
She was coming to my house,

433
00:30:48,179 --> 00:30:51,849
and she crossed the freeway,

434
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:54,184
and she got ran over by a car.

435
00:30:56,855 --> 00:31:00,482
Tell me about your brother Jeremy.

436
00:31:00,483 --> 00:31:02,317
Can you show us?

437
00:31:10,869 --> 00:31:13,787
Jeremy was- he was-

438
00:31:13,788 --> 00:31:15,706
he was just the golden child.

439
00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:22,713
He was a good kid,
trusted his friends.

440
00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:33,765
He would get in trouble just-
just to-

441
00:31:33,766 --> 00:31:35,726
to have that attention,

442
00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,519
but he wouldn't do nothing serious.

443
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,688
He would- He would never do
anything too serious.

444
00:31:39,689 --> 00:31:43,859
He got in trouble for making
people laugh, you know,

445
00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:46,278
talking during class, you know,
stuff like that.

446
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:47,779
He was a very sociable person.

447
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:50,365
Everybody loved him, and, uh...

448
00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:54,369
Everybody said that I was the one

449
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:59,249
that was supposed to be dead
before I was 21 and not Jeremy.

450
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,626
And you loved him.

451
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:02,628
Of course.

452
00:32:05,715 --> 00:32:08,467
He was my-
He was my best friend.

453
00:32:10,595 --> 00:32:12,512
He was my best friend growing up.

454
00:32:12,513 --> 00:32:14,181
He's all I had.

455
00:32:17,393 --> 00:32:18,977
You took care of him.

456
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:23,607
I tried.

457
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:30,405
Turns out the only thing I did
was hurt him.

458
00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:33,200
I introduced him to the people
that killed him.

459
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:44,086
He'd tell me all the time,

460
00:32:44,087 --> 00:32:46,755
it was me and him against the world.

461
00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,094
I tell my wife the same thing now.

462
00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:57,099
It's just me and him against the world.

463
00:33:06,109 --> 00:33:09,361
I believe from the time that we got
the initial call

464
00:33:09,362 --> 00:33:11,405
until they were caught,
it was within a week.

465
00:33:11,406 --> 00:33:14,199
It was, I believe,
five to seven days.

466
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,661
And you arrived at the scene
where they were apprehended?

467
00:33:17,662 --> 00:33:19,121
Yes, sir.

468
00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:21,540
Can you describe?

469
00:33:21,541 --> 00:33:22,916
Was it Mayhem?

470
00:33:22,917 --> 00:33:24,418
Yes, sir, it was.

471
00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:26,086
There was a truck stop-

472
00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:28,046
actually, the truck stop's
not there anymore,

473
00:33:28,047 --> 00:33:30,215
but it was at the-
kind of the side parking lot

474
00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:31,591
of a truck stop,

475
00:33:31,592 --> 00:33:33,427
and there was an abandoned warehouse,

476
00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:35,762
and then on the other side of that,
an apartment complex,

477
00:33:35,763 --> 00:33:39,266
so the entire scene spanned
from that parking lot

478
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:41,768
all the way well into
the apartment complex.

479
00:33:44,856 --> 00:33:46,523
There was shotgun shells.

480
00:33:46,524 --> 00:33:49,026
There was cartridge casings
where they had exchanged fire

481
00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:50,819
with the officers that were there.

482
00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:52,195
There was wrecked vehicles,

483
00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:54,698
and, I mean, there was
just people everywhere.

484
00:33:56,701 --> 00:33:59,661
And the police officer was run over?

485
00:33:59,662 --> 00:34:01,163
Yes, sir, his leg.

486
00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:05,876
There was a vehicle wrecked out,

487
00:34:05,877 --> 00:34:08,211
and all the glass in the vehicle

488
00:34:08,212 --> 00:34:10,881
had shattered from the gunshots.

489
00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:14,468
Burkett and Perry both sustained
gunshot wounds.

490
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:17,804
I believe Jason Burkett
was shot three times,

491
00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:19,306
if I'm not mistaken,

492
00:34:19,307 --> 00:34:21,391
and I'm not really certain
about Michael Perry,

493
00:34:21,392 --> 00:34:24,019
but they- they both had wounds
from gunshots

494
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:27,105
and obviously glass cuts and scrapes.

495
00:34:55,426 --> 00:34:57,928
So there was a wild, hot pursuit,

496
00:34:57,929 --> 00:35:00,555
and you were in this wild chase.

497
00:35:00,556 --> 00:35:02,516
Did you actually open fire at them or...

498
00:35:02,517 --> 00:35:03,892
What had happened-

499
00:35:03,893 --> 00:35:05,852
I don't want to be too indiscreet,
but I think-

500
00:35:05,853 --> 00:35:07,229
Well, I can tell you.

501
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:08,605
I can tell you. I pled guilty.

502
00:35:08,606 --> 00:35:10,941
I've got 10 years done on
a 15-year sentence for it, so...

503
00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:12,859
- I see, yeah.
- We were asleep.

504
00:35:12,860 --> 00:35:14,778
We had been drinking the night before.

505
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:16,154
We were sleeping in the car

506
00:35:16,155 --> 00:35:17,823
because we couldn't get to the motel,

507
00:35:17,824 --> 00:35:19,825
which was on the other side of a fence.

508
00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:24,329
I don't remember this other guy
that was in the car with us.

509
00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:25,705
I don't know how he got with us.

510
00:35:25,706 --> 00:35:27,082
I don't know his name.

511
00:35:27,083 --> 00:35:28,792
I don't know anything about him.

512
00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:30,377
Michael Perry and me were drinking,

513
00:35:30,378 --> 00:35:33,880
and somehow this guy
got with us that night.

514
00:35:33,881 --> 00:35:38,343
I remember getting woke up
and getting shot in the car.

515
00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:39,719
I looked around.

516
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:41,179
Michael Perry wasn't next to me.

517
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:42,597
It was some other kid next to me,

518
00:35:42,598 --> 00:35:44,057
but Perry was in the backseat,

519
00:35:44,058 --> 00:35:46,893
and Perry tried to get
out of the car in the back,

520
00:35:46,894 --> 00:35:48,270
and then he shut the door.

521
00:35:48,271 --> 00:35:51,356
I started the truck,
and I went to flee,

522
00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:53,400
and everybody says,
"You shouldn't have ran.

523
00:35:53,401 --> 00:35:54,776
You shouldn't have ran."

524
00:35:54,777 --> 00:35:56,444
I had just been shot,

525
00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:58,947
and the only way for me
to not to get shot again

526
00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:00,615
was to get out of there,

527
00:36:00,616 --> 00:36:02,784
and I wasn't thinking clearly.

528
00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:04,202
I didn't know about a murder.

529
00:36:04,203 --> 00:36:06,037
I didn't know about
what they were looking-

530
00:36:06,038 --> 00:36:07,414
I didn't know the extent.

531
00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:09,040
I didn't even know
they knew who I was.

532
00:36:09,041 --> 00:36:11,918
And when I drove off,

533
00:36:11,919 --> 00:36:13,461
the officer was right in front of me.

534
00:36:13,462 --> 00:36:14,880
I drove to the right,

535
00:36:14,881 --> 00:36:18,425
and he shot me through the door
right here in my arm.

536
00:36:18,426 --> 00:36:21,094
How badly were you wounded?

537
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:22,470
I was shot right here.

538
00:36:22,471 --> 00:36:23,972
Can you show it higher for me?

539
00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,516
I was shot right here in my wrist.

540
00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:29,352
I was shot right here
in my hand, my finger.

541
00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:31,646
I was shot right here.

542
00:36:31,647 --> 00:36:33,481
I was shot right here,

543
00:36:33,482 --> 00:36:36,818
and I was shot right here.

544
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:41,156
Right here, I had a piece
of the car door in my side.

545
00:36:41,157 --> 00:36:44,492
Still lodged in your side?

546
00:36:44,493 --> 00:36:46,995
So how do you get through
a metal detector?

547
00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,539
Well, it came out afterwards.
It came out.

548
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:51,333
It did finally come out in the jail.

549
00:36:51,334 --> 00:36:55,128
Right here in my collarbone,
I had a piece of glass

550
00:36:55,129 --> 00:36:57,756
from the car door, went inside.

551
00:37:01,761 --> 00:37:04,554
I crashed into a building
because I couldn't steer.

552
00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:06,223
My blood's all in the truck.

553
00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:08,558
They said,
"Well, your DNA's on the gun."

554
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:10,185
My DNA's on everything in there.

555
00:37:10,186 --> 00:37:13,021
I was shot.
My DNA was on Michael Perry.

556
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:15,523
My DNA was on every seat in there
from being shot.

557
00:37:15,524 --> 00:37:17,651
Blood went everywhere.

558
00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:25,700
Whenever I crashed,
I jumped out and ran.

559
00:37:25,701 --> 00:37:27,077
I ran.

560
00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:29,120
I ran in the building.

561
00:37:29,121 --> 00:37:31,039
There was cops shooting at the building

562
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,540
where we were crashed into.

563
00:37:32,541 --> 00:37:35,502
They were shooting from every direction.

564
00:37:35,503 --> 00:37:39,673
The window in the back
of the building's like this.

565
00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,299
You can't get through it.

566
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:44,386
I shot one time with the gun
through the window.

567
00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:45,971
I probably shouldn't have done that,

568
00:37:45,972 --> 00:37:47,764
but I was trapped,
and I was panicking.

569
00:37:47,765 --> 00:37:49,307
I didn't know what to do.

570
00:37:49,308 --> 00:37:51,810
And when we got through there,
we ran to some apartments,

571
00:37:51,811 --> 00:37:56,022
and, you know, I- I carried Perry
half the way,

572
00:37:56,023 --> 00:37:59,192
but, I mean, we got to the apartment.

573
00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:02,612
You- You dealt with it
like real tough men.

574
00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:04,531
I remember reading somewhere

575
00:38:04,532 --> 00:38:07,534
that Michael Perry shouted,
"This is it.

576
00:38:07,535 --> 00:38:10,036
Put the balls at the walls,"
or something.

577
00:38:10,037 --> 00:38:12,706
"Let's bolt. Let's fight back."

578
00:38:12,707 --> 00:38:15,041
Can you remember something like that?

579
00:38:15,042 --> 00:38:17,711
I remember reading that they said,
"Balls to the walls,"

580
00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:19,337
or, you know, something.

581
00:38:19,338 --> 00:38:20,714
I don't recall him saying it.

582
00:38:20,715 --> 00:38:22,090
He could have said it.

583
00:38:22,091 --> 00:38:24,301
Too much commotion.
Too many bullets flying.

584
00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:26,511
I didn't really understand
what was happening.

585
00:38:26,512 --> 00:38:28,847
All I knew is, where we were at,
we could not stay there.

586
00:38:28,848 --> 00:38:30,265
Yeah.

587
00:38:30,266 --> 00:38:33,393
And- And he was screaming,
"Balls to the walls," they say.

588
00:38:33,394 --> 00:38:36,563
Well, how can I say?

589
00:38:36,564 --> 00:38:39,774
I- I don't want to go
into the details of-

590
00:38:39,775 --> 00:38:41,192
of what happened,

591
00:38:41,193 --> 00:38:45,989
but fact is that
three people were killed.

592
00:38:47,408 --> 00:38:52,912
And you deny that you were
even close to the scene or-

593
00:38:52,913 --> 00:38:54,289
how- how do you-

594
00:38:54,290 --> 00:38:55,874
Well, there's no longer a question.

595
00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:57,792
There's no longer a question
of my innocence.

596
00:38:57,793 --> 00:38:59,252
That's- question is out the door.

597
00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:01,838
The question is, what is anyone
gonna do about it now?

598
00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:05,592
I mean, a perfect example is,
you're here with these guys.

599
00:39:05,593 --> 00:39:07,427
They show up at your hotel room in a car.

600
00:39:07,428 --> 00:39:09,554
You're gonna assume that
that car is-

601
00:39:09,555 --> 00:39:11,056
you know, these are your friends,

602
00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:13,016
so when Jason shows up
to pick me up in a car,

603
00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:14,434
I'm gonna assume it's okay.

604
00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:15,935
You get in it,
and you get arrested,

605
00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:18,521
and you come to find out
he just murdered someone from that car,

606
00:39:18,522 --> 00:39:20,190
you're gonna end up
on Texas death row.

607
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:21,566
You're gonna end up right here

608
00:39:21,567 --> 00:39:23,151
because you trusted one of these guys

609
00:39:23,152 --> 00:39:24,903
to show up and pick you up
in a- in a real car

610
00:39:24,904 --> 00:39:26,863
that wasn't just stolen.

611
00:39:26,864 --> 00:39:29,657
But trusting in Jason
was a bad choice.

612
00:39:29,658 --> 00:39:31,910
- Oh, absolutely.
- I mean, let's face it.

613
00:39:31,911 --> 00:39:34,746
He was some sort of a bad apple,
and so- so were you.

614
00:39:34,747 --> 00:39:37,374
I was homeless and starving,
so it was-

615
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:40,794
And using drugs and stealing.

616
00:39:40,795 --> 00:39:43,296
He offered me drugs.
He offered me a place to stay.

617
00:39:43,297 --> 00:39:45,590
He offered me food, so I chose-

618
00:39:45,591 --> 00:39:47,217
I chose that, which I shouldn't have.

619
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:49,260
I regret it every- every minute now.

620
00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:51,721
Cherish every minute, huh?

621
00:39:51,722 --> 00:39:53,098
Cherish every minute.

622
00:39:53,099 --> 00:39:55,892
Make the most of it because,
you know,

623
00:39:55,893 --> 00:39:57,685
they can- they can-
they can do you like me.

624
00:39:57,686 --> 00:39:59,521
Be in the wrong situation
at the wrong time,

625
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:01,231
and there's no telling
where you end up.

626
00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:03,608
You might want to get out of Texas
as soon as possible, huh?

627
00:40:03,609 --> 00:40:05,402
They might arrest you any-
any second, huh?

628
00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:47,360
I went over to my buddy's house.

629
00:40:47,361 --> 00:40:50,155
There was a guy there,
and he wanted to fight me,

630
00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:55,618
and he run up on me
as I got out of the truck,

631
00:40:55,619 --> 00:40:57,871
and- and I just kind of blew him off.

632
00:40:57,872 --> 00:40:59,247
You know what I mean?

633
00:40:59,248 --> 00:41:01,374
"Just go on, man,
go on about your business."

634
00:41:01,375 --> 00:41:04,002
And everybody said he was saying
he was gonna stab me

635
00:41:04,003 --> 00:41:05,837
when I got out of the truck.

636
00:41:05,838 --> 00:41:07,338
You know, it kind of pissed me off,

637
00:41:07,339 --> 00:41:10,008
so I- I went back, found the dude,

638
00:41:10,009 --> 00:41:13,511
and run up on him,
and I was taking off my shirt,

639
00:41:13,512 --> 00:41:16,347
and I threw my- threw my shirt up
like that, you know,

640
00:41:16,348 --> 00:41:18,183
and threw it up over my elbow.

641
00:41:18,184 --> 00:41:20,685
I was gonna take it off,
and when I did that,

642
00:41:20,686 --> 00:41:23,354
he hit me right here
with a screwdriver, you know,

643
00:41:23,355 --> 00:41:26,024
a screwdriver about that long,
and it was a Phillips,

644
00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:28,193
you know, them little skinny,
long screwdrivers.

645
00:41:28,194 --> 00:41:32,197
It sunk in to the handle,
and after that, uh...

646
00:41:32,198 --> 00:41:34,782
- All the way to the handle?
- All the way to the handle.

647
00:41:34,783 --> 00:41:36,284
How did it happen?

648
00:41:36,285 --> 00:41:40,455
Man, it's probably, probably
about right in there.

649
00:41:40,456 --> 00:41:43,458
It went straight-
straight through under my arm,

650
00:41:43,459 --> 00:41:44,834
into my chest,

651
00:41:44,835 --> 00:41:47,253
and I never went to the hospital or anything.

652
00:41:47,254 --> 00:41:49,672
And what did you feel?
You felt the-

653
00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:52,175
Yeah, just a- I felt the- the-

654
00:41:52,176 --> 00:41:54,469
you know, the pressure of it
when it hit.

655
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:55,845
That's all I felt,

656
00:41:55,846 --> 00:41:57,555
and I kind of jumped back
out the way,

657
00:41:57,556 --> 00:42:01,518
and- and I looked,
and my buddy threw me a knife,

658
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,394
and I looked down at the knife
on the ground,

659
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:04,771
and I was like, you know,

660
00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,773
I'm thinking to myself in my head, you know,

661
00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:09,108
"I'm going home to my kids today."

662
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:10,944
You know, so I didn't even pick it up,

663
00:42:10,945 --> 00:42:14,364
and then my other buddy come out
running by the yard,

664
00:42:14,365 --> 00:42:18,201
and I had to be at work in 30 minutes.

665
00:42:18,202 --> 00:42:20,578
Matter of fact, I roof-

666
00:42:20,579 --> 00:42:24,582
I was roofing a house
with Jason's brother.

667
00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:27,085
What is it, Chris Burkett?

668
00:42:27,086 --> 00:42:28,586
And I was roofing a house with him.

669
00:42:28,587 --> 00:42:30,255
Chris was not in jail at that time.

670
00:42:30,256 --> 00:42:32,048
Nah.

671
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:33,633
And you went to hospital?

672
00:42:33,634 --> 00:42:35,260
Nah.

673
00:42:35,261 --> 00:42:36,719
They was asking me

674
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,596
if I needed to go to the hospital or anything,

675
00:42:38,597 --> 00:42:39,973
but it just- some, like, puss

676
00:42:39,974 --> 00:42:41,516
and a little bit of blood come out,

677
00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:44,352
and, you know, I thought I was good.

678
00:42:44,353 --> 00:42:46,479
Evidently, I guess I am.

679
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,273
So I was lucky there.

680
00:42:54,363 --> 00:42:58,199
But you have never been in-
in real trouble with the law?

681
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,576
I had a felony.

682
00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:01,953
That's the only bad-
bad one I had.

683
00:43:01,954 --> 00:43:03,329
But you're a working man.

684
00:43:03,330 --> 00:43:04,706
- Yes, sir.
- You have a job?

685
00:43:04,707 --> 00:43:06,583
Yeah, I ain't been in trouble in four years.

686
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,626
- Can I see your hands?
- Yeah.

687
00:43:08,627 --> 00:43:12,380
When we shook hands,
I noticed your calluses.

688
00:43:12,381 --> 00:43:14,382
- You are working...
- Yeah.

689
00:43:14,383 --> 00:43:16,384
- in a paint shop?
- Yep.

690
00:43:16,385 --> 00:43:18,052
- Cars.
- Yes, sir.

691
00:43:18,053 --> 00:43:20,054
- Solid work.
- Yes, sir.

692
00:43:20,055 --> 00:43:21,639
And the tattoo in here?

693
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,392
Can I see this?
Can you show it?

694
00:43:24,393 --> 00:43:27,395
Bailey.

695
00:43:27,396 --> 00:43:29,522
You had been with her
when you met Burkett?

696
00:43:29,523 --> 00:43:30,982
- Nah.
- Not yet.

697
00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:32,358
No.

698
00:43:32,359 --> 00:43:34,485
I've been with her for three years,

699
00:43:34,486 --> 00:43:37,280
and I got a 17-month-old baby with her.

700
00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:39,657
Oh, yeah. So you are staying with her?

701
00:43:39,658 --> 00:43:41,451
Yeah.

702
00:43:41,452 --> 00:43:42,994
Now the tattoo is forever.

703
00:43:42,995 --> 00:43:44,829
Yeah, it's forever.

704
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:47,165
They just don't come off.

705
00:43:47,166 --> 00:43:51,753
And what happens
if the relationship unravels?

706
00:43:51,754 --> 00:43:53,713
What happens to "Bailey"?

707
00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:56,049
Guess I'm gonna have to get
"Bailey sucks" right there.

708
00:44:06,352 --> 00:44:09,020
Can you talk about Jason Burkett?

709
00:44:09,021 --> 00:44:11,356
How did you meet him?
How did you know him?

710
00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:13,816
What do you know about him?

711
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:15,693
First time I ever met him,

712
00:44:15,694 --> 00:44:17,612
seemed like a pretty cool guy, you know?

713
00:44:17,613 --> 00:44:18,988
So we hung out,

714
00:44:18,989 --> 00:44:21,282
and I introduced him
to a few girls and everything,

715
00:44:21,283 --> 00:44:25,036
and then we used to go huntin' together.

716
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:30,124
One time, he tried to kill me.

717
00:44:30,125 --> 00:44:32,293
I introduced him to these girls,

718
00:44:32,294 --> 00:44:34,462
and her dad and him
had something going on.

719
00:44:34,463 --> 00:44:35,838
I don't know.

720
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:38,091
Well, anyway, he thought
I wanted to get with that girl

721
00:44:38,092 --> 00:44:40,593
and come over to another girl's house

722
00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:42,595
and rushed me with a gun.

723
00:44:42,596 --> 00:44:44,639
Well, I had this girl
tell me to come outside,

724
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,391
and I was eating supper,

725
00:44:46,392 --> 00:44:48,476
and he rushed me with a gun.

726
00:44:48,477 --> 00:44:50,061
So we fought for about 45 minutes

727
00:44:50,062 --> 00:44:54,190
with a gun to my head
in this girl's house.

728
00:44:54,191 --> 00:44:57,902
It was a .22 caliber single-shot pistol.

729
00:44:57,903 --> 00:45:00,905
Yeah, he held- held it to my head,

730
00:45:00,906 --> 00:45:03,908
banged me in the head with it.

731
00:45:03,909 --> 00:45:06,411
We were fighting all through the house
with the gun

732
00:45:06,412 --> 00:45:09,122
till I locked myself in this bedroom,

733
00:45:09,123 --> 00:45:10,957
and he was gonna kick in the door,

734
00:45:10,958 --> 00:45:13,251
so I just opened the door
and let him in

735
00:45:13,252 --> 00:45:16,087
because I didn't want him
to tear this girl's dad's house up,

736
00:45:16,088 --> 00:45:18,673
and after that,
we started fighting again,

737
00:45:18,674 --> 00:45:21,384
and he pinned me on the bed,
and he pulled the trigger.

738
00:45:21,385 --> 00:45:22,969
Where did the bullet go?

739
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:25,471
Nah, it misfired,

740
00:45:25,472 --> 00:45:27,098
because the bullet come out the gun,

741
00:45:27,099 --> 00:45:30,309
and you could tell on a .22 bullet,
there's like-

742
00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:32,645
it's just that round,
flat piece on the bottom.

743
00:45:32,646 --> 00:45:34,480
Well, if the firing pin
ain't long enough,

744
00:45:34,481 --> 00:45:38,151
it don't hit it, and-
and it don't- it won't go off,

745
00:45:38,152 --> 00:45:42,488
but it hit it, but I don't know
why it didn't go off.

746
00:45:42,489 --> 00:45:44,365
- You were lucky.
- Yeah.

747
00:45:44,366 --> 00:45:45,950
Very lucky.

748
00:45:45,951 --> 00:45:47,452
Yeah, I kind of blacked out there.

749
00:45:50,581 --> 00:45:54,584
But, yeah, real lucky.

750
00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:57,086
And then him killing those people, man,

751
00:45:57,087 --> 00:45:59,088
I feel sorry for their families.

752
00:46:06,138 --> 00:46:09,348
Me and my friend Big Justin
was up at the bar one time,

753
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:13,394
and he come up there with these new cars,
him and Perry,

754
00:46:13,395 --> 00:46:14,771
and we're like, "Man,

755
00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:16,522
where'd y'all get these new cars at?"

756
00:46:16,523 --> 00:46:18,274
He's like,
"Oh, we was holding hands-"

757
00:46:18,275 --> 00:46:19,650
him and Perry was holding hands

758
00:46:19,651 --> 00:46:22,737
and scratched off a lottery ticket together

759
00:46:22,738 --> 00:46:24,864
and won them two cars.

760
00:46:24,865 --> 00:46:26,657
Well, me and my buddy
knew it wasn't right,

761
00:46:26,658 --> 00:46:28,826
because they're both felons,
you know what I mean?

762
00:46:28,827 --> 00:46:30,203
Ain't nobody gonna sell them-

763
00:46:30,204 --> 00:46:32,205
ain't neither one got a driver's license,

764
00:46:32,206 --> 00:46:35,708
so, you know, and- and the cars were,
like, fully loaded,

765
00:46:35,709 --> 00:46:39,378
CDs, skateboards, and stuff like that in there,

766
00:46:39,379 --> 00:46:43,299
and so we knew something-
something was up with it,

767
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:46,928
and he started giving people
joy rides up at the bar.

768
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,144
Jason and Michael came up to the bar

769
00:46:55,145 --> 00:46:57,855
to show off two new vehicles
that they had purchased,

770
00:46:57,856 --> 00:47:02,652
and at first, we-
nobody really understood.

771
00:47:02,653 --> 00:47:05,404
They explained that they had purchased
a lottery ticket,

772
00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:07,782
and that's how they got the money
to buy the cars,

773
00:47:07,783 --> 00:47:11,744
and at that time,
it started getting a little weird.

774
00:47:11,745 --> 00:47:15,081
What didn't sound right about this?

775
00:47:15,082 --> 00:47:17,792
The amount of the lottery ticket was $4,000.

776
00:47:17,793 --> 00:47:19,752
They said they cashed it in a gas station.

777
00:47:19,753 --> 00:47:22,797
That doesn't usually happen.

778
00:47:22,798 --> 00:47:24,632
The vehicles themselves didn't look like

779
00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:26,008
they just came off a car lot.

780
00:47:26,009 --> 00:47:27,385
You drove these cars?

781
00:47:27,386 --> 00:47:29,220
I rode in them.
I didn't drive them.

782
00:47:29,221 --> 00:47:30,721
Yeah, they- Jason and Michael

783
00:47:30,722 --> 00:47:32,723
were kind of giving everybody
test drives,

784
00:47:32,724 --> 00:47:36,394
and I rode in both vehicles.

785
00:47:39,273 --> 00:47:41,357
The- The red Camaro,
when I rode in it,

786
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:43,818
they were showing off guns.

787
00:47:43,819 --> 00:47:45,236
There was a 12-gauge shotgun,

788
00:47:45,237 --> 00:47:46,821
and I don't remember the other one,

789
00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:50,491
but I did see 'em in the trunk
of the red Camaro that night.

790
00:47:50,492 --> 00:47:54,036
From what I heard, rumors,
you know, they were into-

791
00:47:54,037 --> 00:47:57,331
initially planning on stealing
a car of my roommate

792
00:47:57,332 --> 00:47:58,708
at the house I was staying at,

793
00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:00,167
and that scared the hell out of me,

794
00:48:00,168 --> 00:48:01,544
'cause that could've been me.

795
00:48:01,545 --> 00:48:03,254
You know, if he would've decided to come

796
00:48:03,255 --> 00:48:05,756
and get the car in my driveway,
where would I be?

797
00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:09,010
I've- I've managed to block it.

798
00:48:09,011 --> 00:48:11,679
I've managed to try to not deal with it

799
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,848
and not think about it.

800
00:48:18,604 --> 00:48:23,441
I guess being in the situations
that I've been in,

801
00:48:23,442 --> 00:48:25,443
just from being employed at that bar,

802
00:48:25,444 --> 00:48:30,281
I have seen so many awful things
that I don't deal with them.

803
00:48:30,282 --> 00:48:32,325
I just kind of put them back.

804
00:48:34,036 --> 00:48:36,579
Did Jason brag about crimes?

805
00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:39,373
He never bragged to me
and my buddy Big Justin.

806
00:48:39,374 --> 00:48:41,042
We didn't even know what had happened,

807
00:48:41,043 --> 00:48:45,129
and they was- they come got us
from Justin's house,

808
00:48:45,130 --> 00:48:47,465
the police did, and they took us up there,

809
00:48:47,466 --> 00:48:49,675
and they was like,
"Y'all read the paper?"

810
00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:52,386
And I told 'em, well, I couldn't read,

811
00:48:52,387 --> 00:48:54,305
and then they didn't believe me,

812
00:48:54,306 --> 00:48:56,766
and they looked at my record
and found out I can't read,

813
00:48:56,767 --> 00:48:59,602
and then, so they read the paper to me,

814
00:48:59,603 --> 00:49:02,229
and they told me what they had done.

815
00:49:03,607 --> 00:49:04,982
Do you read now?

816
00:49:04,983 --> 00:49:06,525
Oh, yeah.

817
00:49:06,526 --> 00:49:09,570
So late, you started to learn how to read.

818
00:49:09,571 --> 00:49:11,072
Yeah, I learned how to read.

819
00:49:11,073 --> 00:49:12,448
Wonderful, yes?

820
00:49:12,449 --> 00:49:14,909
I find this a great achievement.

821
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:17,870
Yeah, it is awesome.

822
00:49:17,871 --> 00:49:19,830
You are much more connected now.

823
00:49:19,831 --> 00:49:22,667
Yeah.

824
00:49:22,668 --> 00:49:25,211
How does it feel
not to be able to read?

825
00:49:25,212 --> 00:49:27,254
You have to be much smarter
than the others

826
00:49:27,255 --> 00:49:28,673
to understand the world anyway.

827
00:49:28,674 --> 00:49:30,341
Yeah.

828
00:49:30,342 --> 00:49:33,177
It's- It's kind of tough out there
when you can't read,

829
00:49:33,178 --> 00:49:35,346
but, I mean, 'cause
they ain't always have

830
00:49:35,347 --> 00:49:37,181
somebody gonna read it for you.

831
00:49:39,351 --> 00:49:42,645
But, I mean, I learned how to read in jail

832
00:49:42,646 --> 00:49:46,357
so I could write letters
and read the letters,

833
00:49:46,358 --> 00:49:50,695
and other than that,
I don't plan on going back,

834
00:49:50,696 --> 00:49:54,031
but I'm glad I learned
how to read there.

835
00:49:54,032 --> 00:49:56,534
- And you are doing good now?
- Oh, yeah.

836
00:49:56,535 --> 00:49:58,828
Staying busy at the paint and body shop.

837
00:49:58,829 --> 00:50:00,830
- Reading?
- Oh, yeah.

838
00:50:00,831 --> 00:50:02,331
Writing?

839
00:50:02,332 --> 00:50:04,417
Not much writing.

840
00:50:04,418 --> 00:50:05,876
A lot of sanding.

841
00:50:09,673 --> 00:50:13,759
I'm interested in your relationship
with Michael Perry.

842
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,386
How did you two meet?

843
00:50:15,387 --> 00:50:17,013
How does this thing happen?

844
00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:22,685
In 2000, I had a girlfriend in 2000.

845
00:50:22,686 --> 00:50:25,563
She had a friend named Miranda.

846
00:50:25,564 --> 00:50:27,231
I ended up going to jail,

847
00:50:27,232 --> 00:50:29,775
and Miranda, I seen her
on the side of the road

848
00:50:29,776 --> 00:50:32,278
arguing with Michael Perry,
and I said-

849
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:34,238
I pulled over, and I asked her
what was going on,

850
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,906
and she said,
"He's living in my trunk,

851
00:50:35,907 --> 00:50:37,283
"and I can't get him-

852
00:50:37,284 --> 00:50:38,951
"you know, he can't live there no more.

853
00:50:38,952 --> 00:50:40,327
"My dad's seen him.

854
00:50:40,328 --> 00:50:42,163
"My dad got in a fight with him this morning.

855
00:50:42,164 --> 00:50:43,539
He can't live there."

856
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,082
So he was living in the trunk of a car,

857
00:50:45,083 --> 00:50:47,084
and I said, "Well, I don't know
what to tell you."

858
00:50:47,085 --> 00:50:48,794
And she asked me,
"Can he live with you?"

859
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:50,171
And at that moment, I told her,

860
00:50:50,172 --> 00:50:52,006
"No, he can't live with me."

861
00:50:52,007 --> 00:50:54,550
And then, I looked at him, and she's,
like, sad and crying,

862
00:50:54,551 --> 00:50:57,928
and she said, "Please, let him live with you
just for a month."

863
00:50:57,929 --> 00:51:00,056
This was when we were living
in the camper trailer,

864
00:51:00,057 --> 00:51:02,433
and I told him,
"You can live with us.

865
00:51:02,434 --> 00:51:06,020
Get your stuff, put it
in my truck, and come home."

866
00:51:06,021 --> 00:51:10,983
And from that day on,
I fed him, gave him money,

867
00:51:10,984 --> 00:51:12,359
took care of him.

868
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,613
He was like a- like a little brother,

869
00:51:15,614 --> 00:51:17,573
kid brother that was pushed on you,

870
00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:20,701
and- and when they-
he's older than me by a few months,

871
00:51:20,702 --> 00:51:22,828
but I had to take care of him
because he had nothing.

872
00:51:22,829 --> 00:51:24,580
He had nobody.

873
00:51:24,581 --> 00:51:27,083
Little did I know he had
a very supportive family.

874
00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,752
His mom and dad were both supportive.

875
00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:31,295
He just didn't want to follow rules.

876
00:51:31,296 --> 00:51:33,547
He was just like me
and didn't want to follow rules,

877
00:51:33,548 --> 00:51:35,466
and that's why he ended up
living with me,

878
00:51:35,467 --> 00:51:38,219
'cause they said,
"Work and you can live with us."

879
00:51:38,220 --> 00:51:40,054
He didn't want to work.

880
00:51:40,055 --> 00:51:44,433
And you were sent on a
outward Bound trip into Florida.

881
00:51:44,434 --> 00:51:46,060
What happened? What was that, yeah?

882
00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:47,895
Well, you know,
I'm a city boy at heart,

883
00:51:47,896 --> 00:51:49,313
you know what I'm saying?

884
00:51:49,314 --> 00:51:51,065
I'm really not into the nature and bugs

885
00:51:51,066 --> 00:51:53,400
and- and the weather
and, you know.

886
00:51:53,401 --> 00:51:57,655
So, you know, when- they sent me
on a two-week canoe trip.

887
00:51:57,656 --> 00:51:59,323
Which sounds wonderful for me, but-

888
00:51:59,324 --> 00:52:01,117
Yeah, you know, you know,
I like to canoe,

889
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:02,493
but what it- what was-

890
00:52:02,494 --> 00:52:04,036
it wasn't the canoeing that was bad.

891
00:52:04,037 --> 00:52:05,579
It was that it was in the Everglades.

892
00:52:05,580 --> 00:52:07,498
I mean, we're seeing alligators everywhere.

893
00:52:07,499 --> 00:52:08,874
Now, my question is-

894
00:52:08,875 --> 00:52:10,835
and I didn't even realize that
until I got here-

895
00:52:10,836 --> 00:52:12,378
what happened if I would've fell out

896
00:52:12,379 --> 00:52:13,754
and got eaten by an alligator?

897
00:52:13,755 --> 00:52:15,256
Who would've been responsible?

898
00:52:15,257 --> 00:52:17,341
You know, did my parents sign
some type of waiver?

899
00:52:17,342 --> 00:52:19,260
Because there was alligators everywhere.

900
00:52:19,261 --> 00:52:21,262
Well, a young man of 13,
you better watch out

901
00:52:21,263 --> 00:52:23,055
and- and handle the alligators well, yes.

902
00:52:23,056 --> 00:52:24,431
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

903
00:52:24,432 --> 00:52:26,016
But what happened then?
You didn't-

904
00:52:26,017 --> 00:52:28,310
Well, I think it was on
the third or fourth day.

905
00:52:28,311 --> 00:52:32,148
We would canoe until, like,
nighttime and pull in.

906
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:34,859
I guess they had certain
designations marked,

907
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:36,819
and sometimes we'd pull in,
like, at midnight.

908
00:52:36,820 --> 00:52:39,196
There's bugs- you can reach out
and grab a handful of bugs,

909
00:52:39,197 --> 00:52:40,865
and then they'd want us to cook dinner,

910
00:52:40,866 --> 00:52:42,575
and, you know, I'm like,
"Man, I can't."

911
00:52:42,576 --> 00:52:44,243
And one of the things of the program was

912
00:52:44,244 --> 00:52:45,911
to teach you immediate-

913
00:52:45,912 --> 00:52:48,164
you know, every action there's a-
there's a reaction,

914
00:52:48,165 --> 00:52:50,124
so immediate consequences to your decisions,

915
00:52:50,125 --> 00:52:51,709
and one of the things
I learned is that

916
00:52:51,710 --> 00:52:53,419
if I don't pay attention to the lessons-

917
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:54,920
we had these bags for our property,

918
00:52:54,921 --> 00:52:57,506
and you had to seal them right,
or they wouldn't be waterproof.

919
00:52:57,507 --> 00:52:59,466
Well, I didn't listen,
and it fell in the water,

920
00:52:59,467 --> 00:53:01,635
and all my stuff got wet,
so I didn't have my own tent.

921
00:53:01,636 --> 00:53:03,304
I didn't have no toilet paper anymore,

922
00:53:03,305 --> 00:53:04,680
and I didn't like that.

923
00:53:04,681 --> 00:53:06,682
So basically, I- I was
my typical stubborn self,

924
00:53:06,683 --> 00:53:08,058
and I told them, "You know what?

925
00:53:08,059 --> 00:53:09,810
I ain't doing this no more.
Take me home."

926
00:53:09,811 --> 00:53:11,770
But you were not attacked by alligators, but-

927
00:53:11,771 --> 00:53:13,564
No, we were attacked by monkeys, though.

928
00:53:13,565 --> 00:53:14,940
By monkeys. What happened?

929
00:53:14,941 --> 00:53:17,026
Absolutely, monkeys were jumping from one side

930
00:53:17,027 --> 00:53:18,444
to the trees on the side we were at

931
00:53:18,445 --> 00:53:19,987
and come- trying to come over there,

932
00:53:19,988 --> 00:53:22,781
and they couldn't figure out
where the monkeys came from,

933
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:25,659
but there was a whole bunch of them,

934
00:53:25,660 --> 00:53:27,161
a whole bunch.

935
00:53:27,162 --> 00:53:28,579
I wanted to get out and get one,

936
00:53:28,580 --> 00:53:30,789
but they said they have diseases, right?

937
00:54:04,866 --> 00:54:06,867
So best-case scenario,

938
00:54:06,868 --> 00:54:10,246
if you are granted parole in 2041,

939
00:54:10,247 --> 00:54:13,165
how old would you be then?

940
00:54:13,166 --> 00:54:14,667
Does this ever occur to you?

941
00:54:14,668 --> 00:54:16,210
Do you want to think about it?

942
00:54:16,211 --> 00:54:19,421
I'll be 59, 60.

943
00:54:19,422 --> 00:54:20,798
I was 19.

944
00:54:20,799 --> 00:54:22,633
I have to do 40 years from 19,

945
00:54:22,634 --> 00:54:26,887
which will be 59 years old.

946
00:54:26,888 --> 00:54:28,222
Long time.

947
00:54:31,184 --> 00:54:34,353
When it came to the phase
after your trial was over,

948
00:54:34,354 --> 00:54:38,732
for punishment phase,
your father showed up in court.

949
00:54:40,026 --> 00:54:41,777
Can you describe the scene?

950
00:54:43,405 --> 00:54:44,863
I knew he was coming,

951
00:54:44,864 --> 00:54:47,449
and I knew what he was gonna testify to,

952
00:54:47,450 --> 00:54:50,035
but to hear him testify, it's like-

953
00:54:50,036 --> 00:54:51,912
I was born with neuroblastomas.

954
00:54:51,913 --> 00:54:54,957
I- I had 18 surgeries
by the time I was five,

955
00:54:54,958 --> 00:54:57,418
and I- I don't know a lot about it

956
00:54:57,419 --> 00:55:01,338
because it's something
that I try to shy away from.

957
00:55:01,339 --> 00:55:03,924
I knew he was gonna testify to my raising,

958
00:55:03,925 --> 00:55:06,218
and I was a- in pain all the time,

959
00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:08,429
and he'd watch me cry to sleep, and...

960
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:12,474
It was difficult,
because I seen him cry.

961
00:55:12,475 --> 00:55:14,059
I mean, if you ever see my dad,

962
00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:18,397
he's 6'6", 6'7", 300 pounds,
big old guy, tattooed.

963
00:55:18,398 --> 00:55:20,232
And they brought him in from- from prison.

964
00:55:20,233 --> 00:55:21,608
He came in from prison.

965
00:55:21,609 --> 00:55:23,777
Is he still incarcerated?

966
00:55:23,778 --> 00:55:26,280
He's right across the street on Ellis Unit.

967
00:55:28,283 --> 00:55:30,492
Mr. Burkett, how are you doing?

968
00:55:30,493 --> 00:55:32,619
Just- I'm doing fine.

969
00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:34,121
Doing fine. Little sick.

970
00:55:34,122 --> 00:55:36,123
- How fine?
- Little bit sick.

971
00:55:38,084 --> 00:55:40,502
You are in here for how many years?

972
00:55:40,503 --> 00:55:41,920
40.

973
00:55:41,921 --> 00:55:43,505
- 40 years.
- Yes, sir.

974
00:55:43,506 --> 00:55:45,299
Eight felony counts,
is that correct?

975
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:47,718
- Yes, sir.
- That's pretty serious.

976
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,219
Yes, sir.

977
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:53,223
And you spent some time before
this 40-year sentence in jail.

978
00:55:53,224 --> 00:55:54,600
Is that correct?

979
00:55:54,601 --> 00:55:55,976
- Yes, sir.
- Yeah.

980
00:55:55,977 --> 00:55:58,479
I've been in prison five times.

981
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,731
How many years already?

982
00:56:00,732 --> 00:56:02,691
A 2-year sentence, a 5-year sentence,

983
00:56:02,692 --> 00:56:05,944
a 30-year sentence, and then this 40.

984
00:56:05,945 --> 00:56:07,946
- That's a lot.
- Yes, sir.

985
00:56:07,947 --> 00:56:10,157
What went wrong?

986
00:56:10,158 --> 00:56:12,493
Drugs and alcohol.

987
00:56:12,494 --> 00:56:14,036
Can you explain?

988
00:56:14,037 --> 00:56:18,540
Well, I started using drugs
when I was about 13,

989
00:56:18,541 --> 00:56:21,085
drinking and drugging, and, uh...

990
00:56:22,504 --> 00:56:25,339
selling and manufacturing.

991
00:56:25,340 --> 00:56:27,841
Some stealing and burglarizing
going along with it

992
00:56:27,842 --> 00:56:29,468
to sup- support the habit

993
00:56:29,469 --> 00:56:33,472
and always end up back in prison.

994
00:56:33,473 --> 00:56:37,559
There's one significant moment
when Jason, your son,

995
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,729
was found guilty for capital murder...

996
00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:43,107
- Yes.
- and triple homicide.

997
00:56:43,108 --> 00:56:46,068
During the sentencing phase,
you appeared in court.

998
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:49,822
Can you describe what you said to the jury?

999
00:56:53,118 --> 00:56:54,337
Well...

1000
00:56:57,038 --> 00:57:00,207
I explained to 'em
what prison life was about,

1001
00:57:00,208 --> 00:57:02,876
and I explained- I explained to 'em

1002
00:57:02,877 --> 00:57:05,671
that I didn't think killing him

1003
00:57:05,672 --> 00:57:11,009
was gonna bring back those people
or really, you know,

1004
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:14,388
do anything to correct what happened,

1005
00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:18,642
and I asked the jury to, you know,

1006
00:57:18,643 --> 00:57:21,437
"Please, you know, don't kill my son."

1007
00:57:21,438 --> 00:57:22,813
I asked 'em.

1008
00:57:22,814 --> 00:57:25,190
I said just,
"Please, don't kill my son."

1009
00:57:25,191 --> 00:57:28,193
He never had a chance.

1010
00:57:28,194 --> 00:57:29,778
He didn't have a father.

1011
00:57:29,779 --> 00:57:32,739
I told 'em that, you know,
he did- I was never there,

1012
00:57:32,740 --> 00:57:34,908
and his mother was a, you know,
single mother

1013
00:57:34,909 --> 00:57:36,785
with four children,

1014
00:57:36,786 --> 00:57:39,663
and- and she had handicaps.

1015
00:57:39,664 --> 00:57:42,166
She- She's on disability.

1016
00:57:42,167 --> 00:57:44,960
Most of that time,
she was living on disability,

1017
00:57:44,961 --> 00:57:47,379
and so they- they really didn't-

1018
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:49,798
they lived off food stamps,

1019
00:57:49,799 --> 00:57:53,093
and, you know, HUD housing
and that type of thing,

1020
00:57:53,094 --> 00:57:56,805
and- and he- he really-

1021
00:57:56,806 --> 00:58:01,602
he really had a real poor life growing up.

1022
00:58:03,438 --> 00:58:05,564
I just asked 'em not to kill my son.

1023
00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:06,940
It wasn't his fault.

1024
00:58:06,941 --> 00:58:08,901
I- It- I wished I could-

1025
00:58:08,902 --> 00:58:11,403
I wish that I could
take the time, his time.

1026
00:58:11,404 --> 00:58:15,240
I wish I could, 'cause I feel
like that it's my fault.

1027
00:58:15,241 --> 00:58:17,618
I- I really do.

1028
00:58:17,619 --> 00:58:19,953
I feel like it's-

1029
00:58:19,954 --> 00:58:22,080
I'm as much at fault as he is,

1030
00:58:22,081 --> 00:58:23,749
'cause if I'd have been there,

1031
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:25,542
it, quite possibly, maybe not,

1032
00:58:25,543 --> 00:58:27,544
but- but it might possibly
have been different.

1033
00:58:27,545 --> 00:58:29,796
He'd have had a better chance.

1034
00:58:29,797 --> 00:58:32,299
You know, he'd have
a whole lot better chance,

1035
00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:34,968
if I'd have been there
helping his mother raise him,

1036
00:58:34,969 --> 00:58:36,845
but I wasn't.

1037
00:58:36,846 --> 00:58:39,056
The jury got up to leave,

1038
00:58:39,057 --> 00:58:41,642
and the door was right here to my right,

1039
00:58:41,643 --> 00:58:44,978
and as the door closed behind them,

1040
00:58:44,979 --> 00:58:47,105
I heard two ladies break down.

1041
00:58:47,106 --> 00:58:49,149
I'm- I'm real emotional,

1042
00:58:49,150 --> 00:58:51,652
and I'm crying through the whole thing,

1043
00:58:51,653 --> 00:58:54,821
but as they went through that door,
and the door closed,

1044
00:58:54,822 --> 00:58:58,659
I heard two ladies break down crying.

1045
00:58:58,660 --> 00:59:03,330
They broke down, and then the-

1046
00:59:03,331 --> 00:59:06,333
when it- it was all over
and his lawyer come told me,

1047
00:59:06,334 --> 00:59:08,835
he said- I remember the- his words.

1048
00:59:08,836 --> 00:59:11,421
He said, "You got him."

1049
00:59:11,422 --> 00:59:12,798
You saved a life.

1050
00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:14,216
He said- He said, "You got him."

1051
00:59:14,217 --> 00:59:16,009
I said, "What do you mean?"

1052
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:18,053
He said, "You got him."

1053
00:59:18,054 --> 00:59:19,930
And that's where I-
that's what saved-

1054
00:59:19,931 --> 00:59:21,306
there was two votes.

1055
00:59:21,307 --> 00:59:24,810
It was ten to two,
and there was two votes

1056
00:59:24,811 --> 00:59:28,355
that voted not to kill him,

1057
00:59:28,356 --> 00:59:32,859
and I think those were the two ladies
right there that-

1058
00:59:32,860 --> 00:59:36,989
they're the ones that saved his life.

1059
00:59:36,990 --> 00:59:39,449
But you can be proud of this moment.

1060
00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:41,201
Yeah.

1061
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,290
I had some help too.

1062
00:59:46,291 --> 00:59:47,833
God helped me.

1063
00:59:47,834 --> 00:59:49,251
He did.

1064
00:59:49,252 --> 00:59:51,545
I asked God to help me,
and I think He did.

1065
00:59:55,174 --> 00:59:58,885
I didn't deserve any help for him.

1066
00:59:58,886 --> 01:00:00,887
He may not deserve the help,

1067
01:00:00,888 --> 01:00:04,933
but we got it from some place, so...

1068
01:00:10,607 --> 01:00:12,316
The hardest part was to look at him

1069
01:00:12,317 --> 01:00:13,692
and for him to look at me,

1070
01:00:13,693 --> 01:00:15,193
and I seen that he was sincere,

1071
01:00:15,194 --> 01:00:16,945
that he really was sorry for, you know,

1072
01:00:16,946 --> 01:00:18,947
what he had done throughout
my whole childhood,

1073
01:00:18,948 --> 01:00:20,324
and he had been in prison.

1074
01:00:20,325 --> 01:00:21,908
I don't blame him for it,

1075
01:00:21,909 --> 01:00:23,744
but I seen right there
that he understood

1076
01:00:23,745 --> 01:00:26,246
that it did affect us,
and I cried that one day,

1077
01:00:26,247 --> 01:00:28,123
that was it, through the-
the whole trial.

1078
01:00:28,124 --> 01:00:29,708
Even after conviction,

1079
01:00:29,709 --> 01:00:33,420
the only thing that hurt me
was my- my dad testifying.

1080
01:00:35,256 --> 01:00:38,091
Whenever I went back and testified,

1081
01:00:38,092 --> 01:00:40,218
his brother went back and testified too.

1082
01:00:40,219 --> 01:00:42,262
His brother was in- in prison, Chris,

1083
01:00:42,263 --> 01:00:46,433
and- and we, me and Chris went-

1084
01:00:46,434 --> 01:00:49,102
came back to the diagnostics together,

1085
01:00:49,103 --> 01:00:51,104
and then- and I'm embarrassed,

1086
01:00:51,105 --> 01:00:55,442
but all of three of us,
we had Thanksgiving together,

1087
01:00:55,443 --> 01:01:00,322
me and Chris and Jason over
at the diagnostics unit.

1088
01:01:00,323 --> 01:01:03,867
You know, and they, uh...

1089
01:01:05,995 --> 01:01:07,371
They think that's kind of cool,

1090
01:01:07,372 --> 01:01:09,665
but as a father, I thought
that was pretty embarrassing

1091
01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:11,750
to be sitting there in prison
with my sons.

1092
01:01:11,751 --> 01:01:14,628
- All of them incarcerated.
- Yes, sir.

1093
01:01:14,629 --> 01:01:17,756
And then me and Jason went on
over to the next place together,

1094
01:01:17,757 --> 01:01:19,758
handcuffed together in the bus,

1095
01:01:19,759 --> 01:01:21,593
and that's something that
I never in my life

1096
01:01:21,594 --> 01:01:24,805
would ever dreamed- dreamed of
that would've happened,

1097
01:01:24,806 --> 01:01:28,975
that that same little baby that was...

1098
01:01:28,976 --> 01:01:32,771
We had to hold him down
to take bone marrow tests out of,

1099
01:01:32,772 --> 01:01:34,773
the same little 6-pound baby.

1100
01:01:34,774 --> 01:01:38,944
Describe the feeling to me
when you are handcuffed together

1101
01:01:38,945 --> 01:01:42,489
with your own son in the same bus.

1102
01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:43,907
Can you describe that?

1103
01:01:43,908 --> 01:01:46,618
No, not really. It- It's, uh...

1104
01:01:46,619 --> 01:01:48,870
Try to describe it for us.

1105
01:01:51,582 --> 01:01:54,376
Well, I don't know.

1106
01:01:54,377 --> 01:01:56,336
I just felt like a total failure,

1107
01:01:56,337 --> 01:01:58,630
total failure as a father.

1108
01:01:58,631 --> 01:02:00,382
And you could feel his hand, can't you?

1109
01:02:00,383 --> 01:02:02,008
Yes.

1110
01:02:02,009 --> 01:02:04,803
Yeah, we were handcuffed to this hand
and his right hand,

1111
01:02:04,804 --> 01:02:09,015
and we were sitting there,
and- and I was just-

1112
01:02:09,016 --> 01:02:10,642
it was just total failure.

1113
01:02:10,643 --> 01:02:12,602
That's what I felt like.

1114
01:02:12,603 --> 01:02:15,355
I felt like crap, you know,

1115
01:02:15,356 --> 01:02:17,023
and I used a different word to the jury,

1116
01:02:17,024 --> 01:02:18,942
and- and- and that's-

1117
01:02:18,943 --> 01:02:20,861
and that's what I meant.

1118
01:02:20,862 --> 01:02:23,196
You know, he had trash for a-
for a father,

1119
01:02:23,197 --> 01:02:26,324
and- and then here I was
sitting with my baby son

1120
01:02:26,325 --> 01:02:30,495
on a prison bus, and, I mean,
I don't think it-

1121
01:02:30,496 --> 01:02:34,040
I don't think it gets
much lower than that, you know?

1122
01:02:34,041 --> 01:02:37,002
It just don't.

1123
01:02:37,003 --> 01:02:39,838
Knowing me or him, neither one'll ever,
you know,

1124
01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:43,633
get out again.

1125
01:02:43,634 --> 01:02:47,387
I just got a three-year set off again

1126
01:02:47,388 --> 01:02:49,723
about a week ago, so...

1127
01:02:49,724 --> 01:02:53,894
We'll never- me or him
will never get out again.

1128
01:02:53,895 --> 01:02:55,562
And will he ever get out again?

1129
01:02:55,563 --> 01:02:57,397
I don't think so.

1130
01:02:57,398 --> 01:02:59,399
He comes up for parole the first time in-

1131
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,736
in 1942 for the first time.

1132
01:03:02,737 --> 01:03:05,238
40 years after his conviction.

1133
01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:07,240
Yes, sir, 1941. I'm sorry.

1134
01:03:07,241 --> 01:03:09,242
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

1135
01:03:09,243 --> 01:03:12,662
Yeah, 2041. You're a century back.

1136
01:03:12,663 --> 01:03:14,247
- Yes.
- Behind.

1137
01:03:14,248 --> 01:03:17,209
19- Yeah, 2041. I'm sorry.

1138
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:19,503
Well, it doesn't matter.
It's- time must be-

1139
01:03:19,504 --> 01:03:20,921
A long time.

1140
01:03:20,922 --> 01:03:23,715
Time is probably different
for you in here.

1141
01:03:23,716 --> 01:03:25,842
Yes, sir.

1142
01:04:21,607 --> 01:04:22,983
This is actually the vehicle

1143
01:04:22,984 --> 01:04:25,443
that was in Sandra Stotler's garage.

1144
01:04:25,444 --> 01:04:26,820
This was the vehicle

1145
01:04:26,821 --> 01:04:32,158
that Michael Perry and Jason Burkett
was- was after.

1146
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:34,244
Three people died for this car,

1147
01:04:34,245 --> 01:04:35,954
a car that was in their possession

1148
01:04:35,955 --> 01:04:39,457
for less than 72 hours, I believe.

1149
01:04:41,502 --> 01:04:43,003
Within a couple of years,

1150
01:04:43,004 --> 01:04:44,880
I mean, this vehicle was just trashed,

1151
01:04:44,881 --> 01:04:46,256
the inside of it,

1152
01:04:46,257 --> 01:04:48,341
because there was actually a tree
that had rooted

1153
01:04:48,342 --> 01:04:50,051
and had come up through the center of it,

1154
01:04:50,052 --> 01:04:51,428
and it tore the floorboard up,

1155
01:04:51,429 --> 01:04:56,016
and whenever we actually had
to move it over to this lot,

1156
01:04:56,017 --> 01:04:58,351
it was a little bit difficult
because of that.

1157
01:04:58,352 --> 01:05:00,103
A tree grew inside of it.

1158
01:05:00,104 --> 01:05:02,647
A tree grew up from the bottom up into-

1159
01:05:02,648 --> 01:05:03,982
up into the car.

1160
01:05:09,155 --> 01:05:11,990
Why did they die?

1161
01:05:11,991 --> 01:05:15,368
I ask myself that question every day.

1162
01:05:15,369 --> 01:05:19,664
I mean, for a vehicle?

1163
01:05:19,665 --> 01:05:22,667
You know, I- I don't know.

1164
01:05:22,668 --> 01:05:24,044
I don't know.

1165
01:05:24,045 --> 01:05:26,254
People die every day
over giving people a dirty look

1166
01:05:26,255 --> 01:05:28,673
or, you know, $2.

1167
01:05:28,674 --> 01:05:31,384
People rob each other,
and I don't know.

1168
01:05:31,385 --> 01:05:32,844
I don't know why they died,

1169
01:05:32,845 --> 01:05:35,639
the greed of these two boys.

1170
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,057
I don't know.

1171
01:05:37,058 --> 01:05:38,725
I don't- I don't have an answer.

1172
01:05:38,726 --> 01:05:42,812
Can you speak about the family of victims?

1173
01:05:44,273 --> 01:05:47,817
Nobody seems to address that side.

1174
01:05:49,403 --> 01:05:50,820
I- I don't-

1175
01:05:50,821 --> 01:05:52,989
How do you live with all this?

1176
01:05:53,290 --> 01:05:55,075
I didn't for a while.

1177
01:05:55,076 --> 01:05:56,493
I'm starting to live again,

1178
01:05:56,494 --> 01:06:01,539
but basically I just shut down.

1179
01:06:01,540 --> 01:06:06,962
Montgomery County has a victims assistance program,

1180
01:06:06,963 --> 01:06:10,423
but when you-
when your whole family's ripped from you,

1181
01:06:10,424 --> 01:06:13,176
you- you know, you're kind of like,
what's the point?

1182
01:06:13,177 --> 01:06:14,761
What's the point of living anymore?

1183
01:06:14,762 --> 01:06:16,471
I don't have a family to share it with.

1184
01:06:16,472 --> 01:06:18,223
And I know I have to live for my children,

1185
01:06:18,224 --> 01:06:19,599
to raise my children.

1186
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,434
I don't want them to have a miserable life

1187
01:06:21,435 --> 01:06:25,146
or have a depressed mother all the time.

1188
01:06:25,147 --> 01:06:29,317
But for about four years,
I didn't go anywhere.

1189
01:06:29,318 --> 01:06:32,404
I stayed in the house,

1190
01:06:32,405 --> 01:06:33,822
took the phone out of the home.

1191
01:06:33,823 --> 01:06:35,198
I don't like to talk to people.

1192
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:37,909
I figure, if I don't get close to anybody,

1193
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:39,703
I don't- you know,
I won't get hurt again.

1194
01:06:39,704 --> 01:06:41,371
I don't know.

1195
01:06:41,372 --> 01:06:44,124
I just- I just shut down, really.

1196
01:06:44,125 --> 01:06:46,626
My grandmother shut down.

1197
01:06:46,627 --> 01:06:52,173
Our- Our lives are- are empty, very empty.

1198
01:06:52,174 --> 01:06:53,800
Very empty.

1199
01:06:58,889 --> 01:07:00,306
That's Adam.

1200
01:07:00,307 --> 01:07:02,809
That was his six- he was 16 there.

1201
01:07:02,810 --> 01:07:05,270
That was his last school picture.

1202
01:07:18,659 --> 01:07:21,745
My brother, my brother was my best friend.

1203
01:07:21,746 --> 01:07:26,332
He was- He was only 16.

1204
01:07:26,333 --> 01:07:28,835
It is true that he is not my real brother.

1205
01:07:28,836 --> 01:07:31,713
My sister was- got pregnant
when she was 16,

1206
01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:33,923
and my parents adopted him,

1207
01:07:33,924 --> 01:07:36,968
and they were actually out of town
the day he was born,

1208
01:07:36,969 --> 01:07:39,846
so I was the first one to hold him,

1209
01:07:39,847 --> 01:07:42,932
and I just- I had this feeling
his whole life

1210
01:07:42,933 --> 01:07:44,642
that something was gonna happen to him,

1211
01:07:44,643 --> 01:07:46,895
and I remember calling my mother
and saying, you know,

1212
01:07:46,896 --> 01:07:48,396
"What's Adam doing? Where's Adam?

1213
01:07:48,397 --> 01:07:50,482
You need to make sure-
y'all just moved up to Ohio.

1214
01:07:50,483 --> 01:07:52,317
You need to make sure
you're watching him."

1215
01:07:52,318 --> 01:07:54,319
And my mom was like,
"I've raised five children.

1216
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:55,695
I can take care of him."

1217
01:07:55,696 --> 01:07:58,114
And when he hit 16,
I knew he was- he was good.

1218
01:07:58,115 --> 01:07:59,491
He was safe. He was a man.

1219
01:07:59,492 --> 01:08:01,409
He'd be able to take care of himself now.

1220
01:08:02,495 --> 01:08:03,953
He was such a great kid.

1221
01:08:03,954 --> 01:08:06,998
He was in love for the first time in his life.

1222
01:08:15,716 --> 01:08:22,889
And, one- one thing
that sticks out for me,

1223
01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:25,558
my mom always protected me.

1224
01:08:25,559 --> 01:08:29,062
One thing that I remember,

1225
01:08:29,063 --> 01:08:31,564
I was supposed to get married.

1226
01:08:31,565 --> 01:08:34,734
Well, I did get married September 16, 1995,

1227
01:08:34,735 --> 01:08:37,737
but my dad, Mel, he was a preacher,

1228
01:08:37,738 --> 01:08:40,532
and he was supposed
to marry me and Kenneth.

1229
01:08:40,533 --> 01:08:42,700
He died six months before the wedding.

1230
01:08:42,701 --> 01:08:47,622
He was hit by a train,
him and my older brother

1231
01:08:47,623 --> 01:08:49,290
and the family dog.

1232
01:08:49,291 --> 01:08:54,045
And so we got- I refused
to get married in a church,

1233
01:08:54,046 --> 01:08:56,381
so we got married on the boat
in Lake Conroe.

1234
01:08:56,382 --> 01:08:58,299
Right as I was walking out the-

1235
01:08:58,300 --> 01:09:00,718
walking out the door
to go down the aisle,

1236
01:09:00,719 --> 01:09:05,056
my mother pinned my dad's wedding ring
inside my dress

1237
01:09:05,057 --> 01:09:06,432
right over my heart,

1238
01:09:06,433 --> 01:09:09,352
and she said,
"I didn't want your dad to miss this."

1239
01:09:09,353 --> 01:09:11,354
And, you know, that just-

1240
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:14,774
You loved her.

1241
01:09:14,775 --> 01:09:17,777
Yes, and I know she was
in so much pain that day,

1242
01:09:17,778 --> 01:09:22,031
but she hid it because I was so happy.

1243
01:09:22,032 --> 01:09:24,951
She hid her pain for me,

1244
01:09:24,952 --> 01:09:28,329
and, you know, she- she just
made it through the day.

1245
01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:33,293
I just miss 'em a lot.

1246
01:09:33,294 --> 01:09:37,672
Our family's just so incomplete,
so incomplete.

1247
01:09:41,302 --> 01:09:43,636
You know, sometimes my kids
will ask me things,

1248
01:09:43,637 --> 01:09:45,096
and I'll go, "I don't know.

1249
01:09:45,097 --> 01:09:46,598
I wonder what my mo-"

1250
01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:49,142
You know, there's things
at all times of day and night

1251
01:09:49,143 --> 01:09:51,060
I want to call and ask her.

1252
01:09:51,061 --> 01:09:55,440
It took me forever to realize
she was really gone

1253
01:09:55,441 --> 01:09:57,984
'cause I would want to pick up
the phone and call her.

1254
01:09:57,985 --> 01:10:01,654
Is this why you got rid of the phone?

1255
01:10:01,655 --> 01:10:08,995
Yes, I- I did not want another phone call

1256
01:10:08,996 --> 01:10:12,832
telling me somebody else
in my family had died.

1257
01:10:14,251 --> 01:10:16,044
I couldn't handle those phone calls anymore.

1258
01:10:18,631 --> 01:10:20,381
I couldn't handle 'em anymore,

1259
01:10:20,382 --> 01:10:24,135
so I just cut myself off from the world.

1260
01:10:26,263 --> 01:10:28,473
I can't- I can't have a phone on.

1261
01:10:28,474 --> 01:10:30,433
I just don't like to hear
the phone ring anymore

1262
01:10:30,434 --> 01:10:33,144
'cause all it ever brought me was bad news.

1263
01:10:33,145 --> 01:10:34,646
- The worst.
- The worst.

1264
01:10:34,647 --> 01:10:37,190
Not just bad, yeah.

1265
01:10:37,191 --> 01:10:39,192
You had to- to face it.

1266
01:10:39,193 --> 01:10:41,444
Yeah.

1267
01:10:41,445 --> 01:10:43,196
Well, you know, it's just, I mean,

1268
01:10:43,197 --> 01:10:48,701
not only did I lose my mother
and my father and my brother

1269
01:10:48,702 --> 01:10:50,536
to tragic circumstances.

1270
01:10:50,537 --> 01:10:52,205
I mean, my grandfather had a stroke.

1271
01:10:52,206 --> 01:10:53,581
My uncle hung himself.

1272
01:10:53,582 --> 01:10:56,376
My other uncle had a heroin overdose.

1273
01:10:56,377 --> 01:10:59,754
My stepbrother shot himself
'cause he had pancreatic cancer.

1274
01:10:59,755 --> 01:11:02,048
My real father died in his sleep.

1275
01:11:02,049 --> 01:11:04,509
All this was in six years,
a six-year period.

1276
01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:07,637
I lost everyone in my family, everybody.

1277
01:11:53,559 --> 01:11:55,977
Mr. Burkett, if you close the eyes

1278
01:11:55,978 --> 01:11:58,938
and you think about a different life

1279
01:11:58,939 --> 01:12:02,400
and it could start all over,

1280
01:12:02,401 --> 01:12:05,862
how would you raise the children?

1281
01:12:05,863 --> 01:12:07,780
Well...

1282
01:12:10,659 --> 01:12:14,203
it's hard to answer something
that you've never done,

1283
01:12:14,204 --> 01:12:16,289
and, you know, embarrassing-

1284
01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:18,166
it's embarrassing to say that,

1285
01:12:18,167 --> 01:12:20,418
but- but I know when-
I would like-

1286
01:12:20,419 --> 01:12:25,590
I would like to them have...

1287
01:12:25,591 --> 01:12:28,134
I had a scholarship
to the University of Texas

1288
01:12:28,135 --> 01:12:31,095
in 1973, in football,

1289
01:12:31,096 --> 01:12:32,930
and I quit school in my senior year,

1290
01:12:32,931 --> 01:12:36,768
quit football and quit school
and lost that,

1291
01:12:36,769 --> 01:12:39,854
and I wish I could go back
to right there.

1292
01:12:39,855 --> 01:12:41,522
Yes, go back to right there.

1293
01:12:41,523 --> 01:12:43,149
Now you have the children.

1294
01:12:43,150 --> 01:12:47,236
Then I have the children,
and- and I would had-

1295
01:12:47,237 --> 01:12:50,281
I would have done everything in my power

1296
01:12:50,282 --> 01:12:54,660
to- to help them finish school
like I didn't.

1297
01:12:54,661 --> 01:12:56,954
You always tell them,
"Don't be like me."

1298
01:12:56,955 --> 01:12:58,498
Well, I wished-

1299
01:12:58,499 --> 01:13:01,000
I wished I would've been something
they could've been,

1300
01:13:01,001 --> 01:13:03,211
and I wish they could've finished school.

1301
01:13:03,212 --> 01:13:05,505
I wish we could've played baseball
like I did

1302
01:13:05,506 --> 01:13:08,174
when I was little, in Little League.

1303
01:13:08,175 --> 01:13:10,009
I wish that we could've played baseball.

1304
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:12,637
Two of them did for, like, one time.

1305
01:13:12,638 --> 01:13:15,056
I wish we could've played baseball,

1306
01:13:15,057 --> 01:13:17,558
and I wished I could've went
to their football games.

1307
01:13:19,603 --> 01:13:23,106
And I raised a steer in-
in school for FFA.

1308
01:13:23,107 --> 01:13:24,649
I wish they could've did that.

1309
01:13:24,650 --> 01:13:26,025
We lived in the country.

1310
01:13:26,026 --> 01:13:28,986
That's what I wish we could go back,
all of us,

1311
01:13:28,987 --> 01:13:32,615
and- and- and go to school,
school events.

1312
01:13:32,616 --> 01:13:33,991
I got to watch one of my sons

1313
01:13:33,992 --> 01:13:36,077
play the horn one time in school,

1314
01:13:36,078 --> 01:13:38,663
and- and that's the stuff that I remember.

1315
01:13:38,664 --> 01:13:40,331
That's the good stuff,

1316
01:13:40,332 --> 01:13:42,750
and this all wouldn't have happened.

1317
01:14:14,908 --> 01:14:16,409
I want to say this on the record.

1318
01:14:16,410 --> 01:14:18,411
I'm not saying that my husband
was a Boy Scout.

1319
01:14:18,412 --> 01:14:21,038
I'm not saying that
Jason Burkett did absolutely-

1320
01:14:21,039 --> 01:14:23,249
had no knowledge and was, like,
selling cookies

1321
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:27,253
or raising money for camp
when that happened.

1322
01:14:27,254 --> 01:14:33,759
I'm saying that Jason did not kill
one, two, or three people.

1323
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,264
Sandra, Jeremy, and Adam
were not killed by Jason.

1324
01:14:38,265 --> 01:14:42,643
And you asked your husband-

1325
01:14:42,644 --> 01:14:45,146
you asked Jason point-blank,

1326
01:14:45,147 --> 01:14:46,981
"Can you tell me what- what happened?"

1327
01:14:46,982 --> 01:14:49,609
because you wanted to make sure.

1328
01:14:49,610 --> 01:14:51,611
What did you ask him?

1329
01:14:51,612 --> 01:14:53,613
I've asked Jason multiple times

1330
01:14:53,614 --> 01:14:55,823
to tell me everything
that I need to know.

1331
01:14:55,824 --> 01:14:57,200
I said, "Jason-"

1332
01:14:57,201 --> 01:14:58,910
Jason doesn't have a whole lot of money,

1333
01:14:58,911 --> 01:15:00,453
so we do most of his stuff pro se,

1334
01:15:00,454 --> 01:15:03,289
which is where we file it ourselves,

1335
01:15:03,290 --> 01:15:07,418
and me and his father
have pretty much done his appeal,

1336
01:15:07,419 --> 01:15:09,462
and I always ask him,

1337
01:15:09,463 --> 01:15:11,881
"I need to know everything
you can tell me

1338
01:15:11,882 --> 01:15:13,549
to help you get home,"

1339
01:15:13,550 --> 01:15:15,801
and that's basically
how we start our conversations,

1340
01:15:15,802 --> 01:15:20,389
and Jason will recall things,
and, you know, more and more,

1341
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:22,475
it's, like, been a snowball
that I've picked up

1342
01:15:22,476 --> 01:15:24,101
exactly what I think happened.

1343
01:15:24,102 --> 01:15:25,478
Yeah.

1344
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,522
And you are told he was innocent.

1345
01:15:27,523 --> 01:15:29,023
Yes.

1346
01:15:29,024 --> 01:15:30,775
And you do believe him.

1347
01:15:30,776 --> 01:15:33,194
I do believe him.

1348
01:15:33,195 --> 01:15:37,156
I- like I said, I believe
that Jason had involvement.

1349
01:15:37,157 --> 01:15:39,867
I don't believe he killed three people.

1350
01:15:41,245 --> 01:15:42,828
I wrote Jason for maybe two years

1351
01:15:42,829 --> 01:15:44,455
before I went to meet him,

1352
01:15:44,456 --> 01:15:47,166
because really I could do
most of the stuff through the mail,

1353
01:15:47,167 --> 01:15:49,168
and one day I was talking to his mother,

1354
01:15:49,169 --> 01:15:51,796
and she said something to the effect of,

1355
01:15:51,797 --> 01:15:53,923
"You'll never guess what Jason
said to me today,"

1356
01:15:53,924 --> 01:15:55,341
and I said, "What?"

1357
01:15:55,342 --> 01:15:59,470
And she said, "He told me
that he was in love with you."

1358
01:15:59,471 --> 01:16:03,140
And I said, "That's crazy."

1359
01:16:03,141 --> 01:16:05,935
And I remember, to give you,
like, the pre-story,

1360
01:16:05,936 --> 01:16:07,770
I was with my best friend,
and when I hung up,

1361
01:16:07,771 --> 01:16:09,605
I said to my best friend-
her name's Kat-

1362
01:16:09,606 --> 01:16:13,442
I was like,
"Kat, Jason Burkett's in love with me."

1363
01:16:13,443 --> 01:16:15,194
She goes,
"That's probably pretty good

1364
01:16:15,195 --> 01:16:16,862
'cause you're in love with him too."

1365
01:16:16,863 --> 01:16:18,823
And I said,
"What are you talking about?

1366
01:16:18,824 --> 01:16:20,283
Don't be an idiot," you know?

1367
01:16:20,284 --> 01:16:22,702
And she said,
"Dude, when is the last time

1368
01:16:22,703 --> 01:16:24,161
"you've been on a date?

1369
01:16:24,162 --> 01:16:26,539
"When was the last time
you haven't spent a Saturday night

1370
01:16:26,540 --> 01:16:28,874
with Jason Burkett's court paperwork?"

1371
01:16:28,875 --> 01:16:31,002
I was like,
"Hey, that's not nice."

1372
01:16:31,003 --> 01:16:32,420
But I ended up driving-

1373
01:16:32,421 --> 01:16:33,838
I lived in Nebraska at the time.

1374
01:16:33,839 --> 01:16:36,799
I ended up driving from Omaha to Abilene

1375
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,552
because I wanted him
to tell me himself,

1376
01:16:39,553 --> 01:16:41,095
and he was at the Robertson Unit.

1377
01:16:41,096 --> 01:16:42,888
You were two days and two nights driving?

1378
01:16:42,889 --> 01:16:44,348
Yes.

1379
01:16:44,349 --> 01:16:47,852
I drove- it- it seemed, like,
endless too.

1380
01:16:47,853 --> 01:16:49,228
I drove, and I got there,

1381
01:16:49,229 --> 01:16:50,646
and I remember, I just asked him.

1382
01:16:50,647 --> 01:16:52,231
Like, that was the first thing I said.

1383
01:16:52,232 --> 01:16:54,567
I was like,
"Hi, we've never seen each other in our lives,

1384
01:16:54,568 --> 01:16:55,943
"but hi.

1385
01:16:55,944 --> 01:16:57,820
Your mom told me that
you're in love with me."

1386
01:16:57,821 --> 01:16:59,196
But I didn't say it.

1387
01:16:59,197 --> 01:17:00,573
I wanted to be coy, so I said,

1388
01:17:00,574 --> 01:17:02,742
"Your mom told me you told her
something in a visit."

1389
01:17:02,743 --> 01:17:04,368
I said, "What- what did you tell her?"

1390
01:17:04,369 --> 01:17:06,245
And he said, "I need stamps?"

1391
01:17:06,246 --> 01:17:08,080
And I was like,
"I wouldn't be in Abilene

1392
01:17:08,081 --> 01:17:09,749
"because you need stamps, right?

1393
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:11,584
What are you-
don't play games with me."

1394
01:17:11,585 --> 01:17:13,419
And he goes,
"Oh, that part where I said

1395
01:17:13,420 --> 01:17:15,421
I was in love with you?"

1396
01:17:15,422 --> 01:17:17,590
And then I dropped the phone
because I was nervous,

1397
01:17:17,591 --> 01:17:18,966
and I didn't know what to say,

1398
01:17:18,967 --> 01:17:20,885
and I kind of fumbled
through that whole visit

1399
01:17:20,886 --> 01:17:23,054
because I didn't immediately go,
"I love you too."

1400
01:17:23,055 --> 01:17:25,056
it wasn't, you know, like a movie.

1401
01:17:25,057 --> 01:17:26,474
I was very nervous.

1402
01:17:26,475 --> 01:17:29,810
I'm not that girl that
falls in love with an inmate.

1403
01:17:29,811 --> 01:17:32,938
And I was like, okay,
I'm just gonna be cool with it,

1404
01:17:32,939 --> 01:17:36,609
and then when I left,
the day I met Jason,

1405
01:17:36,610 --> 01:17:38,152
there was a rainbow, and I'm not-

1406
01:17:38,153 --> 01:17:39,654
This is true. It's in our letters.

1407
01:17:39,655 --> 01:17:41,530
There was a rainbow
that went from one gate-

1408
01:17:41,531 --> 01:17:44,950
side of the gate
to the other side of the gate,

1409
01:17:44,951 --> 01:17:48,412
and I thought that was the most
miraculous sign that this is-

1410
01:17:48,413 --> 01:17:50,289
this is the boy
that I'm supposed to be with

1411
01:17:50,290 --> 01:17:51,874
and this is- he is innocent,

1412
01:17:51,875 --> 01:17:55,795
because how many times
do you see a whole rainbow?

1413
01:17:55,796 --> 01:17:59,799
And we saw a whole rainbow,
and my friend was with me.

1414
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,051
He saw the rainbow too.
I have a witness.

1415
01:18:02,052 --> 01:18:03,427
And when Jason-

1416
01:18:03,428 --> 01:18:05,846
when I got home,
I had a letter waiting for me,

1417
01:18:05,847 --> 01:18:07,932
and he said,
"Did you see the rainbow?"

1418
01:18:07,933 --> 01:18:10,643
At the gates of the prison.

1419
01:18:10,644 --> 01:18:12,812
It went from one side,
my side on the outside,

1420
01:18:12,813 --> 01:18:15,064
to the inside to him.

1421
01:18:31,623 --> 01:18:33,791
I believe in me, you know, I know what-

1422
01:18:33,792 --> 01:18:36,043
I know what happened back in 2001.

1423
01:18:36,044 --> 01:18:37,545
I know that I wasn't a part of it,

1424
01:18:37,546 --> 01:18:39,922
and I believe strongly in-
in my faith,

1425
01:18:39,923 --> 01:18:41,465
in my attorneys, and in the outcome,

1426
01:18:41,466 --> 01:18:43,801
but at the same time,
I don't even recognize these walls.

1427
01:18:43,802 --> 01:18:45,177
I don't pay attention to this,

1428
01:18:45,178 --> 01:18:47,138
because if you do,
you're gonna lose your mind.

1429
01:18:47,139 --> 01:18:49,598
You're gonna- You're gonna go-
You're gonna lose your mind.

1430
01:18:49,599 --> 01:18:52,017
Recently, another guy just killed himself
the other day,

1431
01:18:52,018 --> 01:18:54,520
and he left a note saying that,

1432
01:18:54,521 --> 01:18:56,480
"Y'all have to live around
all this craziness,

1433
01:18:56,481 --> 01:18:58,023
and I'm gone,"

1434
01:18:58,024 --> 01:18:59,859
and that's because he was focusing on it,

1435
01:18:59,860 --> 01:19:01,235
but I don't.

1436
01:19:01,236 --> 01:19:02,611
I don't focus on it.

1437
01:19:02,612 --> 01:19:05,489
You know, I just-
I just distract myself.

1438
01:19:05,490 --> 01:19:06,907
I stay busy. I work on my case.

1439
01:19:06,908 --> 01:19:08,617
I have a great family,

1440
01:19:08,618 --> 01:19:10,494
a lot of supporters that help me,

1441
01:19:10,495 --> 01:19:12,413
so I have enough distractions.

1442
01:19:12,414 --> 01:19:14,123
If I didn't have enough distractions,

1443
01:19:14,124 --> 01:19:16,917
I might be in a different position.

1444
01:19:16,918 --> 01:19:20,755
How does time occur to you now
in your situation?

1445
01:19:20,956 --> 01:19:23,549
That's a- That's a good-

1446
01:19:23,550 --> 01:19:25,676
It- It really varies, but, you know,

1447
01:19:25,677 --> 01:19:27,178
because, I'll- like, I'll forget.

1448
01:19:27,179 --> 01:19:28,554
I'll literally forget,

1449
01:19:28,555 --> 01:19:29,972
and then I'll look at my calendar

1450
01:19:29,973 --> 01:19:31,599
or I'll hear someone say something,

1451
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:32,975
and I'm like, "Man."

1452
01:19:32,976 --> 01:19:35,060
And I'll sit back,
and I'll just stare at the wall,

1453
01:19:35,061 --> 01:19:36,645
and I'll be like,
"Man, eight days,

1454
01:19:36,646 --> 01:19:39,774
seven days, six days,"
or whatever, and it's like-

1455
01:19:39,775 --> 01:19:41,942
it's just- I must not be
comprehending the fact

1456
01:19:41,943 --> 01:19:43,736
that it's that close,
because, you know,

1457
01:19:43,737 --> 01:19:45,571
it's hard for me to say,
you know what-

1458
01:19:45,572 --> 01:19:47,740
like, I talk to people,
"You know, in eight days,

1459
01:19:47,741 --> 01:19:49,408
these people want to murder me,"

1460
01:19:49,409 --> 01:19:52,077
and it's just something that,
it's hard for me to-

1461
01:19:52,078 --> 01:19:53,496
hard for me to believe

1462
01:19:53,497 --> 01:19:56,248
that the state of Texas
wants to murder me in eight days.

1463
01:19:58,919 --> 01:20:00,669
And worst-case scenario,

1464
01:20:00,670 --> 01:20:04,632
you know exactly what is going to happen
on July 1st?

1465
01:20:04,633 --> 01:20:06,176
Yeah, the execution.

1466
01:20:07,177 --> 01:20:09,303
You will be transported to Huntsville?

1467
01:20:09,304 --> 01:20:11,889
- Right, the Walls Unit.
- That's a death house?

1468
01:20:11,890 --> 01:20:13,265
Yes, sir.

1469
01:20:13,266 --> 01:20:16,769
And you will be checked
by a medical examiner?

1470
01:20:16,770 --> 01:20:19,730
I don't- no, no medical people
can be involved.

1471
01:20:19,731 --> 01:20:21,315
I think they- they have to check you

1472
01:20:21,316 --> 01:20:23,150
that you are fit to be executed.

1473
01:20:23,151 --> 01:20:25,653
I've never heard that,
but it might be.

1474
01:20:25,654 --> 01:20:27,363
I think it's one of these absurdities.

1475
01:20:27,364 --> 01:20:28,948
If you are unconscious, for example,

1476
01:20:28,949 --> 01:20:30,324
you cannot be executed.

1477
01:20:30,325 --> 01:20:31,700
Oh, yeah?

1478
01:20:31,701 --> 01:20:33,410
Or if you are stark mad or something...

1479
01:20:33,411 --> 01:20:35,204
- Yeah, yeah.
- they would not execute you.

1480
01:20:35,205 --> 01:20:36,580
Yeah, that is true.

1481
01:20:36,581 --> 01:20:38,666
Or if you are bleeding
from a gunshot wound,

1482
01:20:38,667 --> 01:20:42,670
they would not put you
onto the gurney.

1483
01:20:42,671 --> 01:20:44,672
Right.

1484
01:20:44,673 --> 01:20:46,674
They got to treat me first
and then kill me, huh?

1485
01:20:46,675 --> 01:20:48,176
Probably, yes.

1486
01:20:49,177 --> 01:20:52,680
That's- That's kind of crazy
to think about, right?

1487
01:20:56,768 --> 01:20:58,769
Yeah, I just- I just can't
allow myself to think.

1488
01:20:58,770 --> 01:21:00,813
I can't even picture myself
laying on a gurney,

1489
01:21:00,814 --> 01:21:04,233
but if it happens,
I'll have to deal with it, huh?

1490
01:21:04,234 --> 01:21:05,985
You know, I'll have to deal with it,

1491
01:21:05,986 --> 01:21:09,196
and I'll be able to watch over
my mom from heaven

1492
01:21:09,197 --> 01:21:11,323
with a clear conscience
and be at peace.

1493
01:21:11,324 --> 01:21:13,158
You know, like I said,
for a long time,

1494
01:21:13,159 --> 01:21:14,577
my life has been unhappy,

1495
01:21:14,578 --> 01:21:18,330
so finally I can find me some peace, huh?

1496
01:21:18,540 --> 01:21:20,082
And you are at peace with yourself.

1497
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:21,458
Now.

1498
01:21:21,459 --> 01:21:22,877
Took a long time.

1499
01:21:22,878 --> 01:21:24,712
Yes, absolutely did.

1500
01:21:24,713 --> 01:21:27,423
Took a long time to realize
what a man was.

1501
01:21:27,424 --> 01:21:29,091
I was out there acting like a child.

1502
01:21:29,092 --> 01:21:31,385
I acted like a child
when I got in here at first,

1503
01:21:31,386 --> 01:21:35,723
but I'm confident in-
in who I am now.

1504
01:21:39,519 --> 01:21:42,646
Michael Perry, I wish you all the best.

1505
01:21:42,647 --> 01:21:45,107
Yes, thank you.

1506
01:21:45,108 --> 01:21:46,859
I don't know what's gonna happen, huh?

1507
01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:49,570
We're gonna see.
We're gonna find out.

1508
01:21:49,571 --> 01:21:51,405
I'll find out on Monday.

1509
01:22:12,677 --> 01:22:15,095
They knew what I was telling them

1510
01:22:15,096 --> 01:22:17,097
was gonna be the truth.

1511
01:22:17,098 --> 01:22:20,809
I mean, I'm not gonna tell you anything that-

1512
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:23,812
I'm gonna tell you everything
that's gonna happen back here.

1513
01:22:23,813 --> 01:22:26,690
At 4:00, a guy's gonna come in here,

1514
01:22:26,691 --> 01:22:29,443
and they're gonna fingerprint you.

1515
01:22:29,444 --> 01:22:31,570
Shortly after that,

1516
01:22:31,571 --> 01:22:34,573
we're gonna allow you
to take a shower,

1517
01:22:34,574 --> 01:22:37,242
and then we're gonna put you
in free world clothes,

1518
01:22:37,243 --> 01:22:39,745
let you- let you dress
in free world clothes.

1519
01:22:39,746 --> 01:22:43,290
Free world clothes would be clothes
you and I would wear.

1520
01:22:43,291 --> 01:22:48,462
5:00, 6:00, whatever your-
your request for the last meal,

1521
01:22:48,463 --> 01:22:50,172
they'll bring it in,

1522
01:22:50,173 --> 01:22:54,134
and you'll sit there
and eat your last meal.

1523
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:57,930
During that time,
if you need anything else, just ask.

1524
01:22:57,931 --> 01:23:01,767
You know, you need some more juice, punch,

1525
01:23:01,768 --> 01:23:05,604
or whatever else we got back here,
just ask.

1526
01:23:05,605 --> 01:23:08,148
You know, and they- you know,

1527
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:10,734
sometimes we get strange requests.

1528
01:23:10,735 --> 01:23:13,487
You know, within reason,
I'm gonna get it for you.

1529
01:23:13,488 --> 01:23:15,489
Give me one of those requests.

1530
01:23:15,490 --> 01:23:17,658
Oh, one was,

1531
01:23:17,659 --> 01:23:19,827
"Man, I'd sure like to smoke
a doobie right now."

1532
01:23:19,828 --> 01:23:23,956
Well, that's not gonna happen, you know.

1533
01:23:25,125 --> 01:23:27,084
The guy with the key,
he opens the door,

1534
01:23:27,085 --> 01:23:28,460
swings the door open.

1535
01:23:28,461 --> 01:23:30,587
There's another correctional officer
behind him

1536
01:23:30,588 --> 01:23:32,715
and another one behind me.

1537
01:23:32,716 --> 01:23:35,843
So soon as he does,
he follows me in,

1538
01:23:35,844 --> 01:23:37,636
and then the other correctional officers

1539
01:23:37,637 --> 01:23:39,179
follow right in behind him.

1540
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:41,682
So there'll be two in front of-
in front of the inmate,

1541
01:23:41,683 --> 01:23:43,851
and then the other three
right behind him.

1542
01:23:43,852 --> 01:23:45,561
I tell him jump up on the gurney,

1543
01:23:45,562 --> 01:23:46,979
which then I automatic-

1544
01:23:46,980 --> 01:23:50,190
it's only a few steps from the cell.

1545
01:23:50,191 --> 01:23:55,946
I would say no more than ten steps,
if that much.

1546
01:23:58,491 --> 01:24:00,367
I would immediately go around to the gurney

1547
01:24:00,368 --> 01:24:03,370
'cause I always took care
of the left leg.

1548
01:24:03,371 --> 01:24:06,582
So soon as he laid down,
I took care of the left leg.

1549
01:24:06,583 --> 01:24:09,001
The other person who was in front with me

1550
01:24:09,002 --> 01:24:10,627
would take care of the right.

1551
01:24:10,628 --> 01:24:13,380
The- The three that fell in behind,

1552
01:24:13,381 --> 01:24:16,425
one would take care
of the- the right arm.

1553
01:24:16,426 --> 01:24:19,261
The other one would take care
of the left arm,

1554
01:24:19,262 --> 01:24:23,223
and the other one would be there
in case the inmate,

1555
01:24:23,224 --> 01:24:25,225
once he lays down,

1556
01:24:25,226 --> 01:24:27,853
if he had a response
to try to get back up,

1557
01:24:27,854 --> 01:24:31,440
his job was to hold-
to hold his shoulders down.

1558
01:24:31,441 --> 01:24:32,858
You know, you're not-

1559
01:24:32,859 --> 01:24:35,110
once you're up there,
you're up there, you know.

1560
01:24:36,613 --> 01:24:37,988
Within that time,

1561
01:24:37,989 --> 01:24:40,074
us four people would have him done.

1562
01:24:40,075 --> 01:24:41,992
Probably within about 15 seconds,

1563
01:24:41,993 --> 01:24:44,953
he'd be strapped down that quick,

1564
01:24:44,954 --> 01:24:47,081
'cause we all knew
exactly where our straps were

1565
01:24:47,082 --> 01:24:48,832
and what we were supposed to do.

1566
01:24:48,833 --> 01:24:53,003
The time. Do- Do a process.

1567
01:24:53,004 --> 01:24:54,671
We trained on it.

1568
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,926
It's the last time you're gonna see-

1569
01:24:58,927 --> 01:25:01,720
I'm gonna see him with his eyes open,

1570
01:25:01,721 --> 01:25:03,347
because after the execution's done

1571
01:25:03,348 --> 01:25:05,474
and the process went

1572
01:25:05,475 --> 01:25:07,810
and then- then they call the doctor in

1573
01:25:07,811 --> 01:25:11,480
to pronounce him dead,

1574
01:25:11,481 --> 01:25:13,107
then everybody leaves.

1575
01:25:13,108 --> 01:25:16,610
My job begins again 'cause
I have to go back in there,

1576
01:25:16,611 --> 01:25:19,571
and that's- that's all-

1577
01:25:19,572 --> 01:25:21,740
also kind of difficult

1578
01:25:21,741 --> 01:25:27,037
because here you sit with this
individual eight or ten hours,

1579
01:25:27,038 --> 01:25:29,581
all day long,

1580
01:25:29,582 --> 01:25:32,543
and now the last thing you're doing

1581
01:25:32,544 --> 01:25:35,629
is removing those straps.

1582
01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:37,172
The straps have to be removed

1583
01:25:37,173 --> 01:25:40,843
and put him on another gurney
for the funeral home.

1584
01:25:40,844 --> 01:25:42,845
And then, you thought-

1585
01:25:42,846 --> 01:25:45,055
you didn't think about none of this

1586
01:25:45,056 --> 01:25:48,058
while you're doing this, the procedure.

1587
01:25:48,059 --> 01:25:51,854
You know, none of this, you're-
you don't keep-

1588
01:25:51,855 --> 01:25:54,022
you don't put those emotions out there.

1589
01:25:54,023 --> 01:25:59,736
Do you- You do the job and go home.

1590
01:25:59,737 --> 01:26:04,366
You did how many executions, roughly?

1591
01:26:04,367 --> 01:26:08,120
It was over 125, 120.

1592
01:26:08,121 --> 01:26:09,830
It was somewhere over 120.

1593
01:26:09,831 --> 01:26:11,331
It was a bunch.

1594
01:26:11,332 --> 01:26:13,792
We got to the point to where,
especially after I-

1595
01:26:13,793 --> 01:26:17,171
I think I promoted to captain in '90.

1596
01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:20,591
We were doing two a week,

1597
01:26:20,592 --> 01:26:23,760
and that was getting tiresome.

1598
01:26:23,761 --> 01:26:26,138
And what happened to you then?

1599
01:26:27,765 --> 01:26:33,270
I- back when they-

1600
01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:35,564
when they brought in Karla Faye,

1601
01:26:35,565 --> 01:26:37,816
I stayed back there with her.

1602
01:26:37,817 --> 01:26:42,821
Now, definitely that was
the first female

1603
01:26:42,822 --> 01:26:45,657
that we were fixing to execute.

1604
01:26:45,658 --> 01:26:49,328
I remember one thing so vividly,

1605
01:26:49,329 --> 01:26:52,164
that it was an hour before,

1606
01:26:52,165 --> 01:26:53,540
and I was standing there,

1607
01:26:53,541 --> 01:26:55,209
and the chaplain was standing there,

1608
01:26:55,210 --> 01:26:56,752
and she looked at me,
and she goes,

1609
01:26:56,753 --> 01:27:00,756
"Thank you, Captain Allen,
for everything you've done."

1610
01:27:00,757 --> 01:27:02,591
I said, "You're welcome."

1611
01:27:02,592 --> 01:27:05,385
You know, that's all I could say,
you know.

1612
01:27:05,386 --> 01:27:07,137
What else can-
What else am I gonna say?

1613
01:27:07,138 --> 01:27:12,517
What, "I'm fixin' to strap you down
in another hour"?

1614
01:27:12,518 --> 01:27:14,102
Which we went-

1615
01:27:14,103 --> 01:27:17,189
Procedure and everything went
just the way it was supposed to.

1616
01:27:17,190 --> 01:27:19,524
You know, she was pronounced dead.

1617
01:27:19,525 --> 01:27:21,318
I went back in there,
and I took the gurn-

1618
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:22,778
took the straps off,

1619
01:27:22,779 --> 01:27:24,738
put her, you know,
on the gurney and that stuff.

1620
01:27:24,739 --> 01:27:27,491
We locked everything up,
went about our business,

1621
01:27:27,492 --> 01:27:30,410
and- and everything was fine.

1622
01:27:30,411 --> 01:27:32,079
I had a little shop in the back.

1623
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:35,207
It was 6:00, and the news
come on over the radio,

1624
01:27:35,208 --> 01:27:36,625
and it started again,

1625
01:27:36,626 --> 01:27:42,256
and for some reason,
just out of the blue,

1626
01:27:42,257 --> 01:27:48,095
hearing it, it triggered me
seeing her hurt,

1627
01:27:48,096 --> 01:27:49,471
and I just started shaking.

1628
01:27:49,472 --> 01:27:51,890
I don't know what's wrong,
and then, it was-

1629
01:27:51,891 --> 01:27:53,308
How badly did you shake?

1630
01:27:53,309 --> 01:27:55,852
It was- It was- It was a shake.

1631
01:27:55,853 --> 01:27:57,229
It was a shake.

1632
01:27:57,230 --> 01:27:59,856
Like, I couldn't-
Why am I shaking?

1633
01:27:59,857 --> 01:28:01,233
And then I could see my-

1634
01:28:01,234 --> 01:28:05,612
I was sweating and in tears.

1635
01:28:05,613 --> 01:28:09,074
All of a sudden, man,
this- this is hurtin'.

1636
01:28:09,075 --> 01:28:11,785
I remembered her-
this was two days afterwards.

1637
01:28:11,786 --> 01:28:13,912
I remembered her execution.

1638
01:28:13,913 --> 01:28:15,789
Hers wasn't no different
than anybody else,

1639
01:28:15,790 --> 01:28:19,167
but it was hers,

1640
01:28:19,168 --> 01:28:24,881
and then I started actually visualizing
the other inmates

1641
01:28:24,882 --> 01:28:29,636
as- you asked me,
"Did you look in their eyes when they're-"

1642
01:28:29,637 --> 01:28:31,305
I could see 'em.

1643
01:28:31,306 --> 01:28:34,891
I could actually see 'em
in their holding cell again,

1644
01:28:34,892 --> 01:28:37,644
you know, one right after another,

1645
01:28:37,645 --> 01:28:43,108
and it seemed like there was just...

1646
01:28:43,109 --> 01:28:44,860
My wife goes,
"What's wrong with you?"

1647
01:28:44,861 --> 01:28:46,320
And I don't know.

1648
01:28:46,321 --> 01:28:48,530
I need to talk to somebody.

1649
01:28:48,531 --> 01:28:51,241
And the first person I could
think of to call was Carroll,

1650
01:28:51,242 --> 01:28:52,993
Chaplain Pickett,

1651
01:28:52,994 --> 01:28:54,411
and he come over to the house,

1652
01:28:54,412 --> 01:28:59,333
and we sat on that old swing,
and I started coming down,

1653
01:28:59,334 --> 01:29:01,168
and I- He says, "What's wrong?"

1654
01:29:01,169 --> 01:29:02,836
And I told him,

1655
01:29:02,837 --> 01:29:04,588
and then I looked at Carroll,
and I said,

1656
01:29:04,589 --> 01:29:06,631
"I can't do it no more.

1657
01:29:06,632 --> 01:29:09,509
"That's it. I'm- I'm done.

1658
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:14,181
I can't- I can't go back there anymore."

1659
01:29:14,182 --> 01:29:18,060
Could it be that you thought
that this was not yourself

1660
01:29:18,061 --> 01:29:23,315
but maybe it was
your real self that moment?

1661
01:29:23,316 --> 01:29:25,192
That's a good possibility.

1662
01:29:27,195 --> 01:29:28,779
What's really deep inside of you...

1663
01:29:28,780 --> 01:29:30,155
Yes.

1664
01:29:30,156 --> 01:29:32,949
came out.

1665
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:35,285
That's a good- That's very-

1666
01:29:35,286 --> 01:29:38,330
I mean, that's-
I mean, from that point on,

1667
01:29:38,331 --> 01:29:42,834
I mean, I've had a different
outlook in life.

1668
01:29:42,835 --> 01:29:45,712
If executions was the law,

1669
01:29:45,713 --> 01:29:48,924
then I was gonna make sure
that it was done professionally,

1670
01:29:48,925 --> 01:29:51,093
with integrity.

1671
01:29:51,094 --> 01:29:57,557
After Karla- and I was
pro-capital punishment.

1672
01:29:57,558 --> 01:30:00,060
After Karla Faye and after all this,

1673
01:30:00,061 --> 01:30:02,521
until this day, 11 years later...

1674
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:07,359
No, sir.

1675
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,028
I don't- Nobody has the right
to take another life.

1676
01:30:10,029 --> 01:30:14,699
I don't care if it's the law.

1677
01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:17,869
And it's so easy to change the law.

1678
01:30:40,601 --> 01:30:43,061
I- I don't want to sound...

1679
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:48,233
like a evil person or-

1680
01:30:48,234 --> 01:30:49,985
but I am so glad
I went to the execution.

1681
01:30:49,986 --> 01:30:51,403
I really am.

1682
01:30:51,404 --> 01:30:54,781
I fought with my-
with myself about going.

1683
01:30:54,782 --> 01:30:58,910
I reserved this- the seat
so I could be there,

1684
01:30:58,911 --> 01:31:00,996
but I'm glad I went.

1685
01:31:00,997 --> 01:31:02,372
I'm really glad I went.

1686
01:31:02,373 --> 01:31:04,916
It- It really did something to me.

1687
01:31:04,917 --> 01:31:09,421
Yeah. What did it do?

1688
01:31:09,422 --> 01:31:10,922
I don't- I don't know what-

1689
01:31:10,923 --> 01:31:13,717
I don't know what happened,

1690
01:31:13,718 --> 01:31:16,261
but I- immediately after the execution,

1691
01:31:16,262 --> 01:31:18,430
I felt like a-

1692
01:31:18,431 --> 01:31:21,725
that saying, a huge weight
had been lifted.

1693
01:31:21,726 --> 01:31:24,394
I actually could take a deep breath.

1694
01:31:24,395 --> 01:31:29,691
My heart didn't ache as much.

1695
01:31:29,692 --> 01:31:31,067
I remember walking in

1696
01:31:31,068 --> 01:31:34,112
and thinking, "This looks like a boy."

1697
01:31:34,113 --> 01:31:36,323
I had built this huge monster,

1698
01:31:36,324 --> 01:31:42,662
evil, you know, murdering monster
in my head,

1699
01:31:42,663 --> 01:31:44,581
and he was just a boy.

1700
01:31:46,209 --> 01:31:48,460
He was just a boy
laying on that gurney.

1701
01:31:57,678 --> 01:32:01,389
When I walked in, he looked at me,

1702
01:32:01,390 --> 01:32:03,934
and he looked away,
and he did a double take.

1703
01:32:03,935 --> 01:32:06,144
Same thing Jason Burkett did in court.

1704
01:32:06,145 --> 01:32:07,562
I look like my mom.

1705
01:32:07,563 --> 01:32:09,439
I look a lot like my mother.

1706
01:32:10,733 --> 01:32:12,817
And what did he say?

1707
01:32:12,818 --> 01:32:14,486
He forgave us.

1708
01:32:14,487 --> 01:32:16,863
He forgave us.

1709
01:32:16,864 --> 01:32:18,240
Yeah.

1710
01:32:18,241 --> 01:32:20,075
And I was upset when I walked in.

1711
01:32:20,076 --> 01:32:21,952
I was crying.

1712
01:32:21,953 --> 01:32:23,828
You know, our whole-
my whole family,

1713
01:32:23,829 --> 01:32:26,831
we didn't want to see someone die, you know.

1714
01:32:26,832 --> 01:32:29,834
No one should have to do-
go through that,

1715
01:32:29,835 --> 01:32:33,213
but we were there for my mother,
you know, and my brother,

1716
01:32:33,214 --> 01:32:36,258
and we were crying,
and when he said he forgave us-

1717
01:32:36,259 --> 01:32:37,634
For what?

1718
01:32:37,635 --> 01:32:39,844
For the atrocity brought against him.

1719
01:32:50,147 --> 01:32:53,984
And then he said he's ready to go.

1720
01:32:53,985 --> 01:32:56,820
I heard his mother cry,

1721
01:32:56,821 --> 01:33:01,157
and they gave him the injection.

1722
01:33:01,158 --> 01:33:06,162
He gasped for air four times.

1723
01:33:19,010 --> 01:33:20,802
I watched his shirt thump,

1724
01:33:20,803 --> 01:33:23,179
you know, his heart beating on his shirt.

1725
01:33:23,180 --> 01:33:27,475
I watched it till it stopped,
and it stopped at 6:14.

1726
01:33:27,476 --> 01:33:30,353
One tear fell down his eye, one tear.

1727
01:33:31,897 --> 01:33:35,108
And he was gone, and it was over.

1728
01:33:41,198 --> 01:33:43,575
And the prospect of someone

1729
01:33:43,576 --> 01:33:46,536
who is gonna be locked away for life
without parole,

1730
01:33:46,537 --> 01:33:47,996
would that satisfy-

1731
01:33:47,997 --> 01:33:49,456
- Definitely.
- Yes.

1732
01:33:49,457 --> 01:33:50,874
Definitely.

1733
01:33:50,875 --> 01:33:55,462
So it would be definitely an alternative,

1734
01:33:55,463 --> 01:33:58,673
because death penalty sounds
a little bit too much

1735
01:33:58,674 --> 01:34:01,384
like old Testament, the wrath of God.

1736
01:34:01,385 --> 01:34:02,761
An eye for an eye.

1737
01:34:02,762 --> 01:34:06,431
Jesus probably would not have been
an advocate of-

1738
01:34:06,432 --> 01:34:07,891
Probably not.

1739
01:34:07,892 --> 01:34:10,226
Probably not.

1740
01:34:10,227 --> 01:34:13,730
But some people just don't deserve to live.

1741
01:34:16,609 --> 01:34:18,860
- Can I say something?
- Please.

1742
01:34:18,861 --> 01:34:20,945
I know on July the 1st
is when they-

1743
01:34:20,946 --> 01:34:25,116
they executed Michael,

1744
01:34:25,117 --> 01:34:28,745
and- and I knew Michael pretty well.

1745
01:34:28,746 --> 01:34:30,121
Yeah.

1746
01:34:30,122 --> 01:34:31,498
And I kept up with-

1747
01:34:31,499 --> 01:34:34,167
I have every kind of clipping and website thing

1748
01:34:34,168 --> 01:34:35,919
I have on him and Jason.

1749
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,254
I have, like, a whole locker box full.

1750
01:34:38,255 --> 01:34:41,591
So I know as much about him as anybody,

1751
01:34:41,592 --> 01:34:44,928
and Michael was just- just like Jason.

1752
01:34:44,929 --> 01:34:47,055
They were both young,

1753
01:34:47,056 --> 01:34:50,016
and whatever they did or didn't do,
I don't know.

1754
01:34:50,017 --> 01:34:53,520
I was not there, but Michael was just a-

1755
01:34:53,521 --> 01:34:59,317
was just a young- a young kid,
and I know he-

1756
01:34:59,318 --> 01:35:02,946
I know when they executed him,
I know how he-

1757
01:35:02,947 --> 01:35:07,242
I know his last words
and everything else,

1758
01:35:07,243 --> 01:35:13,498
and I know, by executing Michael,

1759
01:35:13,499 --> 01:35:16,334
I don't think it brought
any of those people back,

1760
01:35:16,335 --> 01:35:18,628
and I don't think it deterred anything.

1761
01:35:18,629 --> 01:35:20,839
I- I don't think it deterred
anybody out there.

1762
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:24,467
As much publicized as it was,
it did not deter anything,

1763
01:35:24,468 --> 01:35:26,886
and I really do not believe
that it solved anything

1764
01:35:26,887 --> 01:35:31,224
by taking another life,
and it hurt me.

1765
01:35:31,225 --> 01:35:33,476
When it come time for his execution,

1766
01:35:33,477 --> 01:35:36,438
I knew it was gonna be about 6:00,

1767
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,940
usually a few minutes after 6:00 P.M.,

1768
01:35:38,941 --> 01:35:43,570
and I was on my knees at my bunk for Michael,

1769
01:35:43,571 --> 01:35:45,989
praying for Michael,

1770
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:49,492
and a feeling come over me

1771
01:35:49,493 --> 01:35:52,620
right about ten-
five or ten minutes after 6:00,

1772
01:35:52,621 --> 01:35:55,290
a feeling come over me that's hard-

1773
01:35:55,291 --> 01:35:56,875
very, very hard to explain.

1774
01:35:56,876 --> 01:36:00,545
It was like I felt the loss of-

1775
01:36:00,546 --> 01:36:03,673
of what used to be
my son's best friend.

1776
01:36:03,674 --> 01:36:06,050
I felt- I felt that.

1777
01:36:06,051 --> 01:36:09,637
I felt that pain
whenever they killed him.

1778
01:36:12,141 --> 01:36:13,516
But I just wish those fam-

1779
01:36:13,517 --> 01:36:15,351
the family members would know that,

1780
01:36:15,352 --> 01:36:19,564
how much that I- I hurt for their loss.

1781
01:36:19,565 --> 01:36:21,858
That's very important,
and Michael never, never-

1782
01:36:21,859 --> 01:36:23,276
that's what upset them,

1783
01:36:23,277 --> 01:36:26,154
'cause Michael never tried
to reach out to 'em.

1784
01:36:26,155 --> 01:36:28,239
I wished I could and say I'm sorry.

1785
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:29,491
Yeah.

1786
01:37:40,062 --> 01:37:42,188
Melyssa, let me address one thing.

1787
01:37:42,189 --> 01:37:44,941
Among death row inmates,

1788
01:37:44,942 --> 01:37:49,737
there's such a phenomenon
like death row groupies,

1789
01:37:49,738 --> 01:37:55,243
the same way rock stars have groupies,

1790
01:37:55,244 --> 01:37:57,078
and you have seen women like that.

1791
01:37:57,079 --> 01:37:59,080
I have seen women like that, in fairness.

1792
01:37:59,081 --> 01:38:01,583
I've also seen women who are married
to death row inmates

1793
01:38:01,584 --> 01:38:04,627
in truly committed relationships

1794
01:38:04,628 --> 01:38:07,255
that I believe are not disingenuous

1795
01:38:07,256 --> 01:38:09,757
and I believe come from their heart.

1796
01:38:09,758 --> 01:38:12,093
You know, some people are just
supposed to be together,

1797
01:38:12,094 --> 01:38:15,138
whether there's a cage and lawman
between you.

1798
01:38:15,139 --> 01:38:16,556
I believe that.

1799
01:38:16,557 --> 01:38:17,932
I mean, I do believe that

1800
01:38:17,933 --> 01:38:20,101
there's a fair amount of women
who want attention,

1801
01:38:20,102 --> 01:38:23,813
who want media coverage,
who seek out infamous men.

1802
01:38:23,814 --> 01:38:26,274
I mean, like Scott Peterson
gets a hundred letters a day

1803
01:38:26,275 --> 01:38:27,650
on death row in California.

1804
01:38:27,651 --> 01:38:29,027
That's ridiculous.

1805
01:38:29,028 --> 01:38:30,445
He murdered his pregnant wife.

1806
01:38:30,446 --> 01:38:31,821
Yes.

1807
01:38:31,822 --> 01:38:34,115
Is that correct, that case?
Yeah, a good-looking man.

1808
01:38:34,116 --> 01:38:35,491
Good-looking man.

1809
01:38:35,492 --> 01:38:40,330
However, Jason is not an ugly man either.

1810
01:38:40,331 --> 01:38:42,457
Describe him to us, please.

1811
01:38:42,458 --> 01:38:45,043
- Like, physically?
- Yes.

1812
01:38:45,044 --> 01:38:47,545
You only have touched his hand.

1813
01:38:47,546 --> 01:38:49,505
Describe his hands to us.

1814
01:38:52,343 --> 01:38:53,843
They're a lot bigger than mine.

1815
01:38:53,844 --> 01:38:56,304
I'll start there.
I have really tiny hands.

1816
01:38:56,305 --> 01:38:58,973
He always- Jason,
he holds hands funny,

1817
01:38:58,974 --> 01:39:01,434
and he always holds my hand
kind of like that

1818
01:39:01,435 --> 01:39:05,396
as opposed to intertwined,
so he holds on to me,

1819
01:39:05,397 --> 01:39:08,066
and I just know
that his hands are massive,

1820
01:39:08,067 --> 01:39:11,069
because he wears a ring size 11.

1821
01:39:11,070 --> 01:39:14,530
Our wedding rings, it's an 11 1/2,

1822
01:39:14,531 --> 01:39:18,534
and I wear a 4,
so he can totally cup my hand.

1823
01:39:22,498 --> 01:39:24,832
Were you allowed to touch each other?

1824
01:39:24,833 --> 01:39:26,459
Hug each other?

1825
01:39:26,460 --> 01:39:28,127
Exchange rings?

1826
01:39:28,128 --> 01:39:31,506
No.

1827
01:39:31,507 --> 01:39:33,633
I still can't get a ring.

1828
01:39:33,634 --> 01:39:37,220
And you were separated by a glass wall or-

1829
01:39:37,221 --> 01:39:39,013
Just like this right here,

1830
01:39:39,014 --> 01:39:40,723
except for we had a phone,

1831
01:39:40,724 --> 01:39:44,435
and it was solid right here,
solid glass.

1832
01:39:44,436 --> 01:39:47,689
But when she comes for visits,
are you allowed to hug her?

1833
01:39:47,690 --> 01:39:49,273
I am now.

1834
01:39:49,274 --> 01:39:51,234
After we married,
I'm allowed to hug her.

1835
01:39:51,235 --> 01:39:54,696
I'm allowed to give her a kiss
before and after visit.

1836
01:39:54,697 --> 01:39:56,572
We're allowed to hold hands on the table

1837
01:39:56,573 --> 01:39:58,199
and have contact and speak.

1838
01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:01,703
But of course- of course
with a guard present.

1839
01:40:01,704 --> 01:40:04,539
As close as you are to me.

1840
01:40:04,540 --> 01:40:06,416
And you would like to have children.

1841
01:40:06,417 --> 01:40:07,792
Yes, sir.

1842
01:40:07,793 --> 01:40:10,003
How would that happen?

1843
01:40:10,004 --> 01:40:12,380
How- What sort of option is there?

1844
01:40:12,381 --> 01:40:14,590
I want 50 children. She wants 2.

1845
01:40:14,591 --> 01:40:17,427
So, I mean, we have to work on this.

1846
01:40:17,428 --> 01:40:20,680
I want children for different reasons.

1847
01:40:20,681 --> 01:40:23,975
I want children with her specifically
because I love her.

1848
01:40:23,976 --> 01:40:25,476
I want to be with her.

1849
01:40:25,477 --> 01:40:30,898
I want to give her something
that she'll always have with me.

1850
01:40:30,899 --> 01:40:32,942
I'm under the impression seeing you now

1851
01:40:32,943 --> 01:40:37,405
that you became pregnant only a few days

1852
01:40:37,406 --> 01:40:41,242
after we met your husband.

1853
01:40:41,243 --> 01:40:43,953
You guys met him on the 18th of october?

1854
01:40:43,954 --> 01:40:45,788
I think so, yeah, something like that.

1855
01:40:45,789 --> 01:40:48,416
Yeah, I believe my baby was made

1856
01:40:48,417 --> 01:40:51,461
on the 23rd of october, approximately.

1857
01:40:51,462 --> 01:40:52,962
Right after we saw your husband.

1858
01:40:52,963 --> 01:40:56,299
23rd or 24th.

1859
01:40:56,300 --> 01:40:59,302
You went into action.

1860
01:41:00,903 --> 01:41:02,031
So to speak.

1861
01:41:03,432 --> 01:41:07,393
And the father of the baby is your husband.

1862
01:41:07,394 --> 01:41:09,937
Legally, will be Jason, yes.

1863
01:41:09,938 --> 01:41:13,232
And it is Jason biologically, legally...

1864
01:41:13,233 --> 01:41:16,152
- I can't say that.
- in every single sense.

1865
01:41:16,153 --> 01:41:20,907
Since you are not allowed to do more
than touching hands,

1866
01:41:20,908 --> 01:41:24,243
how do you become pregnant?

1867
01:41:24,244 --> 01:41:25,787
There's a mystery.

1868
01:41:25,788 --> 01:41:27,789
Yeah, it's kind of a mystery.

1869
01:41:27,790 --> 01:41:30,625
There's people involved
that I don't want to mention.

1870
01:41:30,626 --> 01:41:34,462
No, we would not imply anyone,

1871
01:41:34,463 --> 01:41:37,465
but I have to speculate.

1872
01:41:37,466 --> 01:41:43,346
Is there such a thing like
contraband entering prisons,

1873
01:41:43,347 --> 01:41:48,559
like, let's say, drugs,
cell phones, illegal messages,

1874
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:51,896
there seems to be something
the other way round,

1875
01:41:51,897 --> 01:41:56,234
contraband from the prison
to the outside,

1876
01:41:56,235 --> 01:41:58,361
and you became pregnant.

1877
01:41:58,362 --> 01:41:59,737
Well, we-

1878
01:41:59,738 --> 01:42:01,197
Can we formulate it like this?

1879
01:42:01,198 --> 01:42:05,701
We- We prefer to say that
I was artificially inseminated.

1880
01:42:17,923 --> 01:42:21,592
Do you have a name for the boy?

1881
01:42:21,593 --> 01:42:23,928
Well, we've- we came up with Easton.

1882
01:42:23,929 --> 01:42:26,681
Easton Aaron.

1883
01:42:26,682 --> 01:42:28,683
Can you show us?
I think there's a face.

1884
01:42:28,684 --> 01:42:31,352
- Can you point it out?
- It's right there.

1885
01:42:31,353 --> 01:42:34,689
If you actually can see it close enough,

1886
01:42:34,690 --> 01:42:37,650
you can tell my baby has my strong jaw.

1887
01:42:51,206 --> 01:42:53,374
You live on through your children,

1888
01:42:53,375 --> 01:42:55,543
and the love that you put into them

1889
01:42:55,544 --> 01:42:57,628
projects to the world.

1890
01:42:57,629 --> 01:42:59,005
My parents are both gone,

1891
01:42:59,006 --> 01:43:00,673
and I had this big hole in my heart,

1892
01:43:00,674 --> 01:43:03,718
and I realized that what you do is,

1893
01:43:03,719 --> 01:43:07,680
you take all of that love,
and you give it back.

1894
01:43:09,558 --> 01:43:12,101
I mean, nothing else matters.

1895
01:43:43,091 --> 01:43:47,136
I actually have this shirt
tacked up on my wall.

1896
01:43:47,137 --> 01:43:49,931
Can I see the shirt?
Can you turn it around?

1897
01:43:54,728 --> 01:43:59,190
I just make sure-
and somebody told me about the-

1898
01:43:59,191 --> 01:44:01,359
the live your dash,

1899
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,737
and that's really, after all this-

1900
01:44:04,738 --> 01:44:06,656
that I went through
and quit and everything,

1901
01:44:06,657 --> 01:44:10,409
then I heard the story
telling me live your dash.

1902
01:44:10,410 --> 01:44:12,870
How do you-
How are you gonna live your dash?

1903
01:44:12,871 --> 01:44:14,247
And I didn't understand.

1904
01:44:14,248 --> 01:44:15,831
"What are you talking about 'dash'?"

1905
01:44:15,832 --> 01:44:18,251
It's on your tombstone.

1906
01:44:18,252 --> 01:44:20,378
You got your birth date,

1907
01:44:20,379 --> 01:44:22,546
and you got the day that you decease,

1908
01:44:22,547 --> 01:44:24,382
and you got that little dash
in the middle.

1909
01:44:24,383 --> 01:44:26,968
That's your life right there.

1910
01:44:26,969 --> 01:44:29,303
That's your-
That's everything between

1911
01:44:29,304 --> 01:44:31,639
from the time you was born
from the time you die.

1912
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:33,766
How are you gonna live your dash?

1913
01:44:33,767 --> 01:44:35,893
And that's where I'm at now.

1914
01:44:35,894 --> 01:44:40,648
I'm gonna live my dash
and make sure that everything,

1915
01:44:40,649 --> 01:44:45,069
try to make everything right
for the family, everybody.

1916
01:44:45,070 --> 01:44:49,699
Hold still and watch the birds.

1917
01:44:49,700 --> 01:44:53,077
And you know, once you get up
into your life like that

1918
01:44:53,078 --> 01:44:55,955
and once you feel good
about your life,

1919
01:44:55,956 --> 01:45:00,376
you under- you do start watching
what the birds do, you know,

1920
01:45:00,377 --> 01:45:02,545
what the ducks are doing,
like, the hummingbirds.

1921
01:45:03,046 --> 01:45:04,839
There's so many of them.