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Hi, I'm David Lowery.
I wrote and directed this movie, and...
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I'm sitting here talking about it
on opening weekend.
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It just opened yesterday, so it's...
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I've got interesting perspective on it.
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I feel like I've just
casted out into the world.
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And this'll probably be
the last time I ever watch it.
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So, tune in as I...
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make my way through this film
one final time, in real time.
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This title card here is,
that was always in the script.
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It always began that way and it's a
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overt nod to
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
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It was something that I didn't wanna get
too heavy with those influences.
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But I did wanna have a couple
very overt nods and that was
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probably the most overt.
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This scene was shot in Waco, Texas,
or Bellmead, Texas,
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which is a little town outside of Waco.
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And it's a bank called The American Bank.
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And it's one of the...
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The big landmarks when you're
driving from Dallas to Austin.
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It's an amazing, amazing bank.
Just right out of the sixties,
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hasn't been updated.
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I could've shot an entire movie in there.
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It's just an amazing space.
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A really iconic landmark on I-35.
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I really wanted this to be...
This bank to be in the film.
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It just feels like Texas.
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It's called The American Bank,
it's got an iconic quality.
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And it was originally just
gonna be part of this robbery montage
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that happens later, but then,
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as we were working on the film,
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it was suggested to me that we
kick the movie off with a bank robbery.
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Initially it began...
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a little later, it began with
Forrest Tucker meeting Sissy Spacek
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on the side of the road,
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which was a great...
a great beginning in it's own right.
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But it just...
It was missing something.
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And some of our friends
at Fox Searchlight
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suggested we kick things off
with a bank robbery,
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which seems obvious in retrospect.
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But at the time,
I hadn't written that.
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So I wrote this sequence,
and we shot it.
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And... let it be said,
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sometimes studio notes
are exactly what you need.
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You should listen to them.
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It was really fun to just go...
We were just driving around, you know,
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Texas for a couple days with Bob,
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just shooting these scenes.
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And it was outside of the main unit.
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And we just had so much fun.
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It really felt like just a scrappy
little independent film
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that happened to star Robert Redford.
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These were all shot on
highways outside of Waco and Austin.
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And really tried to get that
Texas landscape in the movie.
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Because most of the movie was shot
in Cincinnati, Ohio
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and Dayton, Ohio and Kentucky.
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This scene, for example, is a highway
in... in Cincinnati.
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And we digitally put
the Dallas skyline in there.
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This was exactly where
the movie initially started,
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It was just right here, side of the road.
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This would have been
the first time we see Bob.
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And the initial idea was...
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to share Sissy's uncertainty
as to whether or not he's up to no good,
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as to whether or not
he's telling the truth
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when he says that he's a bank robber.
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But ultimately, it just
felt like we needed to
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just get the story going
and to understand from the get-go
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that's who he is and also just to
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add some fun to the proceedings.
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Those cop cars that just drove by were CG.
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They were not there on the day.
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One of a handful of...
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visual effects that are in the film that...
We tried to make this movie as,
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in as old-fashioned a way
as possible, but...
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we also, you know,
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definitely relied on
visual effects here and there.
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We had to paint out some
modern cars in this sequence,
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'cause we were just...
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There's one right there
that was definitely a modern car.
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That one, we could not paint out. But...
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One thing that I don't like
using visual effects for is driving stuff.
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I really like to have
all the driving always be real,
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which is always a pain.
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Shooting on a process trailer is hard.
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And you end up breathing
exhaust all day long.
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It takes forever to get going.
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In fact this scene we had, you know...
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I think we were
supposed to shoot this scene
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Immediately after that
scene on the highway,
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which, when you see it,
it's a bright, beautiful, sunny day
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And then as we were
driving to the stretch of road
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where we were gonna shoot this,
this rainstorm blew in and
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we lost half a day because
it took so long to get out there
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on the process trailer
and then it started raining
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and then we just
were never able to get it.
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Process trailers are no fun,
but you can't beat them.
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You really see characters driving.
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Like, green screen just never,
never works for me,
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except for Inside Llewyn Davis.
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That one had really good
green screen driving.
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Anyway, I should
talk about the characters.
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And... Forrest Tucker, played by
Robert Redford, is a real guy.
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I'm sure everyone watching
this movie, by now, knows that
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this is at least partially
based on a true story,
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as the opening text suggests.
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And Jewel is kind of
based on a real person.
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There really was a Jewel in his life.
And he married her.
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But...
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I borrowed her name,
and the rest of her was invented...
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and written specifically for Sissy Spacek.
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I really wanted Sissy to be in this movie.
I wanted to see her and Bob together.
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And it really was, you know...
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important for me to
get someone that could...
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go toe-to-toe with him
in the way that she does.
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And she does it so beautifully.
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We shot their scenes
in the movie in sequence.
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So we get to watch them
get to know one another
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over the course of the film in real time.
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They had met once in passing,
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when they were both making
Michael Ritchie movies.
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Sissy was doing Prime Cut.
Bob had just done Downhill Racer
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and was gonna move on to do
The Candidate shortly thereafter.
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And somewhere in passing they met.
And Bob remembers this.
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No, Sissy remembers this. Bob does not.
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But, really, the first time they
officially met was on this film.
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And if I were to take credit
for anything on this movie,
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it would be bringing them together
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Because I could just
watch them all day long.
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In fact, if the entire movie
was set in this diner,
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I would have been happy.
It would have been a great movie.
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It couldn't have been...
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I don't know if anyone
would have let me make that movie.
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But I would have just been
so pleased to just have a 90-minute
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My Dinner with Andre-style,
conversation between the two of them
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right here in this diner.
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I love diner scenes in movies.
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I mean, I think it's
one of the classic tropes of any movie,
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is to have two characters meet up
over coffee and pie in a diner.
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I was thinking a lot about
Thief when I was writing this movie.
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I could never dream of
writing a movie as good as Thief.
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I mean, Michael Mann is a genius.
Especially when...
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When his films are within the crime genre.
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But there's that amazing scene where
James Caan and Tuesday Weld
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are meeting at that
coffee shop over the highway.
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And it just goes on and on.
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And I never wanted that scene to end.
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I just loved it.
It was so beautifully done,
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so beautifully sustained.
And so much of it is just one shot.
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Just, like, this high-angle shot,
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kind of looking down
at them as they sit there.
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And the simplicity of that, of just
lingering in that one shot was a...
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big inspiration to me in
thinking about how to do this scene.
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I mean, this scene's
much more orchestrated.
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There's a lot more editing going on.
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And a lot more bits and bobs to it.
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But nonetheless the restraint there,
and that Michael Mann had in Thief
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in this long, long diner scene was...
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something I always admired
and thought about for this scene.
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The passing of the note
here was something I love.
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I love seeing people write notes.
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I mean, anyone who's seen my other movies,
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especially A Ghost Story, knows that
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handwritten notes mean a lot to me.
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Especially when you
don't know what they say.
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And I didn't want to see
what was written there.
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I just love the idea of them writing,
both writing something down.
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Obviously, Sissy's writing a phone number.
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We never know exactly what Bob is writing,
but that's the fun of it.
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This shot right here was
the last take of this scene.
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And by the time we got to this shot,
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we had been doing
this scene for a day and a half.
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And they knew
the entire thing like a play.
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And so we just got to all sit back,
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gather around and watch
these two legendary actors do a...
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a one-night-only performance
of a one-act play.
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And it was truly marvelous.
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It's one of those things
that you just, you know...
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Sometimes when you're making a movie,
you just pinch yourself,
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because you feel like you're getting to
watch something that is truly legendary.
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And this scene was one of those things.
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And just watching them go toe-to-toe,
watching them spar, watching them flirt.
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It was really...
It was really special.
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This is one of the few scenes
in the movie also,
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in which the dialogue remained intact.
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We, always on my films,
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give actors the room to just
have fun with what's written.
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But with this scene,
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it was written to be
performed a certain way.
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And Bob and Sissy both
loved the idea of digging into it
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as a piece of writing, as a piece of text
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that they were going to perform.
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And I don't often do that in my movies.
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But when I do,
I always have fun with it.
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I always think, "Man, next..."
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"Next movie I make,
I need to make more dialogue
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for actors to say verbatim."
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'Cause it's really fun when you just...
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When you just accept that the dialogue
in the script is there to be performed,
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and you work with that rather than
using it as a platform to jump off of.
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Not that jumping off
isn't a ton of fun, as well.
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And it's enjoyable in its own right.
And I usually just go for that.
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But... in A Ghost Story,
we had Will Oldham doing this monologue
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And he stuck to every
single syllable that was written.
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And it was such a joy to see
the words respected in that fashion.
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And to know that...
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that when given the opportunity,
I can write pretty okay dialogue.
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And it gives actors
something fun to work with. And so,
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this was another opportunity
to let two great actors...
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have fun with dialogue that I
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did my best to write
specifically for them.
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And they...
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They did a great job of it.
I could watch this scene all day.
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For 90 minutes. I wish the movie...
I wish this was the whole movie.
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I love this diner which
was heavily featured in
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Yorgos Lanthimos'
Killing of a Sacred Deer.
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And we knew that going into it.
We knew they had shot here.
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I did not know,
until I saw that film, that it was...
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exactly the same booth
and that we were using
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the same shot structures.
And it kind of goes to show
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that when you find a specific location...
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You know, often how you shoot it is
dictated to you by the location.
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The location speaks to you.
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I love that the title doesn't hit
for the first, 12 minutes of the movie.
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I love when titles
take forever to show up.
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I just saw Gaspar Noé's Climax,
and I think the title
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occurs halfway into the film
and that was delightful.
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This shot right here...
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of Casey and John David Washington
driving is a nod to...
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Sugarland Express. The way the...
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police radio is lighting up
their faces was something that we
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saw in that film and loved
and wanted to borrow.
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This is one shot in the movie
that I wish was longer.
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I feel like this is one movie where
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I am completely 100 percent
happy with the edit, but...
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except for this shot.
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There was originally this
whole bit with jelly donuts
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that were on the floor.
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The whole floor was just
littered with smashed jelly donuts.
238
00:10:56,073 --> 00:11:00,577
And it was a... It was really funny.
And I don't know why we cut that out.
239
00:11:02,788 --> 00:11:04,873
No one does the... No one sells
240
00:11:04,957 --> 00:11:07,042
the midlife crisis
better than Casey Affleck.
241
00:11:07,125 --> 00:11:10,546
These three beats of him
just being really bummed.
242
00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:13,715
No one's gonna do that like him.
243
00:11:14,258 --> 00:11:16,552
This painting you see in the right hand...
244
00:11:16,844 --> 00:11:18,554
of the screen there
of the family was just
245
00:11:18,637 --> 00:11:20,806
one of those marvelous touches that
246
00:11:20,931 --> 00:11:24,226
Scott Kuzio, our production designer,
and Olivia Peebles, the set decorator,
247
00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:26,645
put together,
one of their friends did that.
248
00:11:26,728 --> 00:11:28,272
And I think Casey kept it.
It was just one of those
249
00:11:28,397 --> 00:11:31,149
beautifully awkward
family portraits that...
250
00:11:31,275 --> 00:11:33,694
doesn't really qualify
as a genuine work of art,
251
00:11:33,777 --> 00:11:38,574
but is just too wonderful
not to fully embrace.
252
00:11:38,657 --> 00:11:42,077
Tika Sumpter was
an actress who I had seen in
253
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,246
Southside with You.
She played Michelle Obama.
254
00:11:44,329 --> 00:11:47,457
And I thought she was
just phenomenal in that film.
255
00:11:47,583 --> 00:11:53,463
And so when I was thinking about
actresses to play Maureen...
256
00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:55,757
her name popped up,
and I immediately just thought,
257
00:11:55,841 --> 00:11:58,552
"What a great choice.
I would love to see her in this film.
258
00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:01,471
I would love to see her and Casey."
259
00:12:01,555 --> 00:12:03,640
And they really...
260
00:12:03,724 --> 00:12:06,310
Sometimes you don't know if an actor
and actress are gonna have chemistry,
261
00:12:06,435 --> 00:12:10,022
but you just have a gut instinct that
they would work well together onscreen.
262
00:12:10,147 --> 00:12:12,316
And in this case they completely did.
263
00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:15,485
They just were...
They make such a beautiful couple.
264
00:12:15,569 --> 00:12:17,321
These kids...
265
00:12:17,446 --> 00:12:20,407
Ari Johnson and Teagan Johnson
are real brother and sister,
266
00:12:20,490 --> 00:12:23,410
an acting duo in Cincinnati, Ohio.
267
00:12:23,493 --> 00:12:28,999
And I think I met Ari first,
and she just knocked it out of the park.
268
00:12:29,082 --> 00:12:31,126
Maybe I met Teagan first,
and he also knocked it out of the park.
269
00:12:31,209 --> 00:12:33,003
Whichever one I met first.
270
00:12:33,086 --> 00:12:34,504
I can't remember anymore,
'cause they're inseparable in my mind.
271
00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:37,633
But they... I was like, "You are amazing.
272
00:12:37,716 --> 00:12:40,302
Now we just have to
find a sibling for you."
273
00:12:40,385 --> 00:12:43,680
And whether it was Ari or Teagan,
they were like, "Well, I have a..."
274
00:12:43,764 --> 00:12:45,599
I'm gonna go, I think it was Ari.
She was like, "I have a brother,
275
00:12:45,682 --> 00:12:47,976
and he acts too." And...
276
00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:50,938
I instantly was like, "Okay we need
to meet him, but he is already hired."
277
00:12:51,021 --> 00:12:52,898
When you can get a real...
278
00:12:52,981 --> 00:12:57,194
brother and sister in film
to play siblings, it just goes a long way.
279
00:12:57,277 --> 00:13:00,405
This was the very first scene
we shot with them and with Casey.
280
00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:04,034
And the whole scene is just a...
281
00:13:04,117 --> 00:13:07,579
a joke about poop.
Nothing like a good poop joke.
282
00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:12,542
We had this whole idea
that this robbery sequence
283
00:13:12,668 --> 00:13:14,086
was gonna take place on a rainy day.
284
00:13:14,211 --> 00:13:16,588
Because when I met the real John Hunt,
285
00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:19,841
who Casey plays...
286
00:13:19,925 --> 00:13:24,846
he said that when the Over-the-Hill Gang
was active in the Austin area,
287
00:13:24,930 --> 00:13:28,517
they would often wait for rainy days
to spring their robberies.
288
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,061
'Cause it just made the police
a little slower in the uptake.
289
00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:33,397
It took a little longer
for the cops to show up.
290
00:13:33,522 --> 00:13:35,983
And so they called them
the Rainy Day Robbers.
291
00:13:36,066 --> 00:13:40,112
And I loved that idea,
and wrote that into the script.
292
00:13:40,237 --> 00:13:42,990
And so we had
all these rain towers on set
293
00:13:43,073 --> 00:13:46,076
We had, like, several city blocks
just, you know,
294
00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,954
covered by these rain towers,
all ready to send a torrential downpour.
295
00:13:49,037 --> 00:13:51,665
And so, of course,
that day it was actually pouring rain.
296
00:13:51,748 --> 00:13:56,086
So much of the rain you're seeing here
is completely authentic...
297
00:13:56,169 --> 00:13:58,922
2017 April weather in Ohio.
298
00:13:59,047 --> 00:14:02,926
And I have never seen
so much rain as I saw in Ohio.
299
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:07,431
This shot, zoom in
on Bob in the back seat.
300
00:14:07,597 --> 00:14:09,766
We used every single frame of that.
301
00:14:09,891 --> 00:14:12,644
I just love letting those things
just linger for as long as they can.
302
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:17,899
Shots like that, for better or worse,
often matter more to me than the plot.
303
00:14:17,983 --> 00:14:19,776
Here we me Danny Glover and Tom Waits,
304
00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:24,156
the representations of the real life
Over-the-Hill Gang in the film.
305
00:14:24,281 --> 00:14:28,910
And Tom had this idea that
he was someone who had found...
306
00:14:28,994 --> 00:14:32,998
found religion when he was in prison.
So he's got this Jesus tattoo on his neck.
307
00:14:33,081 --> 00:14:35,333
And he's often praying,
as we see in that scene.
308
00:14:35,459 --> 00:14:40,672
He's praying to a saint
of his own invention.
309
00:14:41,965 --> 00:14:45,260
This bank is called the Three Day Bank.
That's the name of the bank chain.
310
00:14:45,343 --> 00:14:47,095
It's a fictional bank chain.
And the reason it's called
311
00:14:47,179 --> 00:14:49,222
the Three Day Bank, is because
we always knew it was gonna take
312
00:14:49,306 --> 00:14:51,516
three days to shoot this scene.
313
00:14:51,641 --> 00:14:55,312
And so it was always
referred to in this, in the schedule,
314
00:14:55,395 --> 00:14:58,690
and the planning stages of the film,
as the Three Day Bank Sequence.
315
00:14:58,815 --> 00:15:02,027
And when we were trying to
think of a name for the actual bank,
316
00:15:02,152 --> 00:15:04,488
it's like, Three Day Bank
actually sounds like a real bank,
317
00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:06,615
so let's just use that.
318
00:15:06,698 --> 00:15:09,367
Gene Jones, what a guy.
319
00:15:09,493 --> 00:15:11,661
Most people know him from
No Country for Old Men.
320
00:15:11,787 --> 00:15:14,956
But he's an amazing character actor
who's done a tremendous amount of work.
321
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,709
And, uh...
322
00:15:17,834 --> 00:15:20,545
And I really wanted him for this part,
so we sent him the script.
323
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:25,175
And he agreed to come in for two
of those three days at the Three Day Bank
324
00:15:25,258 --> 00:15:28,220
and really just knocked it
out of the park.
325
00:15:28,345 --> 00:15:32,474
This whole sequence, this whole bank,
326
00:15:32,557 --> 00:15:35,185
much like, it's a rainy day outside.
It's a gray rainy day,
327
00:15:35,268 --> 00:15:37,854
and the whole bank is gray,
and we were...
328
00:15:37,938 --> 00:15:43,235
the production design in here,
and the costume design is...
329
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,571
very heavily influenced by
Jacques Tati's Playtime.
330
00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:48,782
We were trying to find, like,
outside-the-box references.
331
00:15:48,865 --> 00:15:50,242
Things that didn't necessarily feel like,
332
00:15:50,325 --> 00:15:53,245
a traditional sixties
or seventies heist film.
333
00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:54,955
And we were looking
at all these old banks,
334
00:15:55,038 --> 00:15:56,248
and just looking at the structures,
335
00:15:56,331 --> 00:15:57,749
and something about this one
336
00:15:57,874 --> 00:15:59,793
not only felt unique
and felt very eighties,
337
00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:03,672
but also reminded me a lot
of the office building in Playtime.
338
00:16:03,755 --> 00:16:07,050
And so we just took that and ran with it.
And, and so all the...
339
00:16:07,134 --> 00:16:10,720
the color palette
of this entire sequence really...
340
00:16:10,846 --> 00:16:15,100
is a subtle ode to what
Tati did in that movie.
341
00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,894
This story that Casey
is telling, this joke,
342
00:16:18,019 --> 00:16:20,522
is something that... he told me.
343
00:16:20,605 --> 00:16:22,440
He...
344
00:16:22,566 --> 00:16:24,109
he was just trying to think of...
He had a bunch of ideas of things
345
00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:27,362
he could do to engage
Ari and Teagan.
346
00:16:27,445 --> 00:16:30,365
Just things he could do on set
to sort of, like, you know,
347
00:16:30,448 --> 00:16:32,117
interact with them.
348
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,743
And things that he has
used with his own children.
349
00:16:33,869 --> 00:16:36,788
And that was a joke
that he's told his own kids.
350
00:16:36,913 --> 00:16:38,707
And, so...
351
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:41,168
I think there's probably, like,
a day or two before we shot this sequence.
352
00:16:41,251 --> 00:16:43,378
I just thought it'd be really
funny if we just took this joke
353
00:16:43,461 --> 00:16:48,592
and had it be the through line
to the whole robbery.
354
00:16:48,675 --> 00:16:50,385
In the script,
all these beats are there
355
00:16:50,468 --> 00:16:52,804
but it doesn't have that...
356
00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:54,890
dialogue from Casey,
stitching everything together.
357
00:16:54,973 --> 00:16:57,392
And that's one of those things we just...
358
00:16:57,517 --> 00:16:59,936
decided to do almost on the day.
359
00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:02,147
Lisa DeRoberts is
an actress in Cincinnati.
360
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:04,524
She plays Helen the Teller there.
361
00:17:04,649 --> 00:17:06,318
And she just cracked me up
in her audition.
362
00:17:06,443 --> 00:17:08,236
She just, she was so funny.
363
00:17:08,361 --> 00:17:10,238
And...
364
00:17:10,322 --> 00:17:14,868
And this shot right here
just makes me laugh so much.
365
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:16,953
I just... I love these characters
in the film.
366
00:17:17,037 --> 00:17:19,122
Like, like her. Like Helen.
367
00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:21,333
Who just, you just get a quick
snippet of them, and,
368
00:17:21,458 --> 00:17:23,168
they just really pop.
369
00:17:23,251 --> 00:17:25,879
And feel like...
They feel very memorable.
370
00:17:26,004 --> 00:17:27,339
I love, I love...
371
00:17:27,464 --> 00:17:29,299
I really wanted
to fill this entire film with
372
00:17:29,466 --> 00:17:32,636
memorable faces and characters.
373
00:17:32,802 --> 00:17:34,721
Even if they only had one line.
Even if they had no line at all.
374
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:38,642
Like this guy behind Casey there,
I just love looking at him.
375
00:17:38,725 --> 00:17:41,645
I always admire the casting
in Steven Spielberg's movies
376
00:17:41,728 --> 00:17:43,355
and the Coen brothers' movies.
377
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,732
They always feel like they find
all these amazing faces.
378
00:17:45,857 --> 00:17:47,108
Whether they have dialogue or not.
379
00:17:47,192 --> 00:17:50,028
I mean Gene Jones
is a case point in that.
380
00:17:50,111 --> 00:17:52,739
And a case study in that.
And with this film,
381
00:17:52,864 --> 00:17:55,492
I really wanted to populate
the entire movie with characters
382
00:17:55,617 --> 00:17:58,411
that felt like they walked out
of a Spielberg movie
383
00:17:58,536 --> 00:18:00,205
or a Coen brothers' movie.
384
00:18:00,288 --> 00:18:04,751
Background casting and...
and extras casting,
385
00:18:04,918 --> 00:18:07,212
and casting in general
is such an amazing art form.
386
00:18:07,379 --> 00:18:08,964
I mean, I think there should be
an Oscar for it.
387
00:18:09,047 --> 00:18:11,049
Because...
388
00:18:11,174 --> 00:18:12,467
You really depend on that.
389
00:18:12,634 --> 00:18:13,843
It really makes the movie.
390
00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:16,638
And Lynn Meyers
and her team in Cincinnati
391
00:18:16,763 --> 00:18:20,684
did an amazing job...
putting this together.
392
00:18:20,767 --> 00:18:22,936
This is the only handheld sequence
in the movie, I think, right there.
393
00:18:23,019 --> 00:18:27,023
For some reason that just felt like it
needed to be handheld, the energy of it.
394
00:18:27,148 --> 00:18:29,567
And I never know why those things feel
right until you put them together
395
00:18:29,693 --> 00:18:32,487
and just... it feels right.
But, like, that was like.
396
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:35,240
I think, I think that is the only
handheld shot in the movie.
397
00:18:37,242 --> 00:18:40,870
This sequence was
one of those scenes where...
398
00:18:40,954 --> 00:18:42,831
you're, like, pressed for time,
399
00:18:42,914 --> 00:18:45,792
and you're, like, do we
really need to shoot these guys
400
00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:49,587
getting into their cars
with a crane, under an overpass.
401
00:18:49,713 --> 00:18:52,173
But it's one of those little details
that adds veracity
402
00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:54,217
to it actually being a heist film.
403
00:18:54,301 --> 00:18:56,428
It would have been all too easy for me
to just focus on Gene Jones' face
404
00:18:56,511 --> 00:18:59,514
for the whole movie,
'cause that's the kind of thing I love.
405
00:18:59,639 --> 00:19:02,434
But I always had to remind myself,
we need these details about the robbery.
406
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:05,061
We need to see them
trading out their cars.
407
00:19:05,186 --> 00:19:08,606
We need to see them painting
their fingertips with nail polish.
408
00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:11,443
The little details that remind you
that yes, these guys are professionals.
409
00:19:11,568 --> 00:19:14,487
They know what they're doing.
That this is a crime film.
410
00:19:14,654 --> 00:19:17,657
And that it's not all just about
these amazing characters
411
00:19:17,782 --> 00:19:19,784
bantering with one another.
412
00:19:19,868 --> 00:19:22,454
The police officer, the detective
here who's talking to Gene Jones,
413
00:19:22,579 --> 00:19:25,123
is Barlow Jacobs,
who's one of my oldest friends.
414
00:19:25,290 --> 00:19:27,000
He was in my very first feature, St. Nick.
415
00:19:27,125 --> 00:19:30,378
I've known him for years.
And he was briefly in A Ghost Story.
416
00:19:30,462 --> 00:19:32,881
We've collaborated
on and off over the years.
417
00:19:33,089 --> 00:19:36,134
And we always, I always want
to get him in my movies.
418
00:19:36,259 --> 00:19:37,719
I'm gonna get back to Barlow in a second,
419
00:19:37,844 --> 00:19:41,181
but first I want to talk about
this shot right here.
420
00:19:41,306 --> 00:19:44,142
This beat of Forrest
driving away from the robbery
421
00:19:44,267 --> 00:19:47,395
is my favorite shot in the movie.
422
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,316
Very often when I make a movie,
I can distill them down to one shot.
423
00:19:51,441 --> 00:19:54,819
The movie's reason for being
can be distilled down to one shot.
424
00:19:54,903 --> 00:19:56,946
And for this, it's this.
425
00:19:57,030 --> 00:20:00,116
The entire movie can be
summed up with this one image.
426
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,118
Again, we used every frame we had
427
00:20:02,285 --> 00:20:05,246
and then just let it last
for as long as we possibly could.
428
00:20:05,372 --> 00:20:07,957
And I couldn't...
I could probably tell you exactly
429
00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:09,834
why it means that much to me.
430
00:20:09,918 --> 00:20:11,461
But it's more important
just to say, like, that...
431
00:20:11,586 --> 00:20:13,296
that shot is why I made the movie.
432
00:20:14,506 --> 00:20:16,174
I love crawl spaces.
433
00:20:17,592 --> 00:20:19,886
Every one of my movies,
I think, has a crawl space in it.
434
00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:23,598
And if you ever need to spice up a film,
spice up a script, you just add some,
435
00:20:23,723 --> 00:20:27,519
add a scene where a character
puts something in a crawl space.
436
00:20:27,644 --> 00:20:29,813
Forrest Tucker invented a...
437
00:20:31,981 --> 00:20:34,150
...a device,
438
00:20:34,234 --> 00:20:36,945
his crowning achievement as a robber,
which was a police radio
439
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:40,198
attached to a hearing aid.
And he was really proud of this.
440
00:20:40,281 --> 00:20:42,951
And it was something that he used
in all of his robberies.
441
00:20:43,118 --> 00:20:45,870
And I wanted to,
to showcase that heavily.
442
00:20:45,995 --> 00:20:48,706
There's so much of the movie
that doesn't really...
443
00:20:48,832 --> 00:20:50,834
There's so much
of the movie that we invented.
444
00:20:50,917 --> 00:20:53,128
So much of this is
the mythical version of Forrest Tucker.
445
00:20:53,211 --> 00:20:56,840
But I always tried to find these
touchstones that tie us to the real guy.
446
00:20:56,965 --> 00:21:00,218
And one of them is this,
this hearing aid idea.
447
00:21:00,343 --> 00:21:02,971
And I forgot that hearing aids
were just so big back then.
448
00:21:03,096 --> 00:21:05,557
I'm so used to the wireless ones
that people have now.
449
00:21:05,682 --> 00:21:09,060
And so when he...
When our, when Sean, our prop master,
450
00:21:09,185 --> 00:21:12,439
brought in all these vintage
hearing aids, I was like, "Man.
451
00:21:12,564 --> 00:21:14,232
Are people even gonna
know what these are?"
452
00:21:14,315 --> 00:21:15,900
Like, it looks so strange.
453
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,699
Biggest punch line in the
movie here is... this newscaster.
454
00:21:23,783 --> 00:21:26,661
Josh Jacobs, with the Cincinnati News
455
00:21:26,786 --> 00:21:28,872
talking about the local Honey Festival.
456
00:21:28,997 --> 00:21:32,000
Or I guess in the movie,
he's with the Waxahachie News in Texas.
457
00:21:32,125 --> 00:21:34,794
And I don't know if that's
actually funny or not.
458
00:21:34,919 --> 00:21:38,590
But I die laughing every time
I hear him say, "Bees."
459
00:21:38,715 --> 00:21:41,843
It's my favorite line
in the movie, perhaps.
460
00:21:41,968 --> 00:21:44,888
This scene was
really important for me to...
461
00:21:45,013 --> 00:21:48,266
It was important for me
to end this scene on Tika.
462
00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:50,894
In terms of the narrative rhythm
of the movie,
463
00:21:51,019 --> 00:21:53,646
it made sense to cut back to Casey.
464
00:21:53,771 --> 00:21:56,483
That's where your instincts
tell you the film is going.
465
00:21:56,608 --> 00:21:58,985
In this scene, it would
make sense to cut back to Casey
466
00:21:59,110 --> 00:22:01,696
and see his reaction.
467
00:22:01,779 --> 00:22:05,116
But I always wanted to let the women
in this film to have the last word.
468
00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:07,994
And so it was really important
to end it on Tika,
469
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,456
and to hold on her, and then
to dissolve into the next scene.
470
00:22:11,581 --> 00:22:14,375
And it's a weird transition.
It pops out.
471
00:22:14,542 --> 00:22:17,545
It takes you out of the rhythm
of the film for a second,
472
00:22:17,712 --> 00:22:19,714
but that's by design.
473
00:22:19,797 --> 00:22:24,260
I really wanted us to be aware
of these female characters
474
00:22:24,427 --> 00:22:26,638
who are the moral compass
of the movie.
475
00:22:26,763 --> 00:22:30,308
And even though they're not front
and center for much of the film,
476
00:22:30,558 --> 00:22:32,101
they really ground it.
477
00:22:32,185 --> 00:22:34,729
And it was important to give them
those moments to ground it.
478
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:36,189
So every character, Sissy, Tika,
479
00:22:36,314 --> 00:22:40,318
Elisabeth Moss later in the film,
Ari, who plays their daughter.
480
00:22:40,527 --> 00:22:43,154
They all have those moments
where we just hold on them
481
00:22:43,321 --> 00:22:49,494
as they ground the film with some words
of wisdom or some moral center that,
482
00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:52,705
the male characters otherwise lack.
483
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:56,167
This scene was...
We shot this at the end of the day,
484
00:22:56,251 --> 00:22:57,835
after shooting
the other diner sequence.
485
00:22:58,044 --> 00:23:01,798
And we filled this diner with teenagers.
486
00:23:01,923 --> 00:23:05,927
And it was really nice to let Bob
and Sissy just be out on a...
487
00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:08,012
another young couple
488
00:23:08,096 --> 00:23:10,014
out on a date amongst
many other young couples.
489
00:23:10,139 --> 00:23:11,474
So I was talking about Barlow Jacobs.
490
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:12,767
Here he is again.
491
00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:15,395
I just love Barlow.
492
00:23:15,478 --> 00:23:18,773
He makes me laugh.
And his part just kept growing.
493
00:23:18,856 --> 00:23:20,108
We just kept,
we kept bringing him into more scenes,
494
00:23:20,191 --> 00:23:21,859
putting him in the background.
495
00:23:21,985 --> 00:23:24,362
And he's just really good
at giving everybody a hard time.
496
00:23:24,487 --> 00:23:28,074
He's like the captain of busting chops.
497
00:23:28,199 --> 00:23:31,160
And he busts chops
like nobody else.
498
00:23:31,286 --> 00:23:35,540
This sequence includes a cameo
from Isiah Whitlock Jr.
499
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:37,584
An amazing actor,
you've seen him in,
500
00:23:37,834 --> 00:23:42,797
in countless films and television
series, including Pete's Dragon.
501
00:23:42,922 --> 00:23:45,258
Here he is reprising his role
from Pete's Dragon.
502
00:23:45,383 --> 00:23:51,472
He's playing deputy Gene Dentler,
or sheriff Gene Dentler,
503
00:23:51,556 --> 00:23:54,183
who was played by Robert Longstreet
in Ain't Them Bodies Saints.
504
00:23:54,267 --> 00:23:57,145
But he's a character that keeps
showing up from one movie to the next.
505
00:23:57,270 --> 00:24:00,273
And I really wanted him to be
in this movie, again.
506
00:24:00,398 --> 00:24:02,358
He was written in the script.
I wanted Isiah to play him.
507
00:24:02,525 --> 00:24:06,195
And we went so far as to rent the costume
508
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,489
that he wore in Pete's Dragon from Disney,
509
00:24:08,573 --> 00:24:11,743
so that he could be wearing
exactly the same outfit.
510
00:24:11,826 --> 00:24:14,329
We shot his scene in prep,
his half of the conversation.
511
00:24:14,495 --> 00:24:16,831
And he is in my office,
in our production office,
512
00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:20,001
which we just decorated to look
like a police station.
513
00:24:21,419 --> 00:24:23,046
This whole scene, like, we just,
514
00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:24,797
we're trying to consistently
delight ourselves.
515
00:24:24,964 --> 00:24:26,841
We just try to keep things,
like, in the background here,
516
00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:29,802
you see there's, like,
a guy being tackled in the back room.
517
00:24:29,969 --> 00:24:32,347
And all the cops rushing towards him.
We're just trying to fill,
518
00:24:32,430 --> 00:24:35,516
be as maximalist as possible
with this entire sequence.
519
00:24:35,642 --> 00:24:38,811
But initially it was only,
it just had John Hunt.
520
00:24:38,936 --> 00:24:44,067
It was just a lot of whip pans to Casey,
digging into the case.
521
00:24:44,192 --> 00:24:46,402
And after we had started
cutting together,
522
00:24:46,527 --> 00:24:49,197
we realized we needed to have
Forrest in there, too.
523
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,741
And so we added of whip pans to Forrest.
524
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:54,744
And every sequence there
with Forrest Tucker was shot in Texas.
525
00:24:54,952 --> 00:24:57,955
We just went to all these banks in,
in Fort Worth.
526
00:24:58,081 --> 00:24:59,624
And just drove from one bank to the next.
527
00:24:59,707 --> 00:25:01,626
Just shooting all these
little robbery sequences.
528
00:25:01,751 --> 00:25:04,212
And again, it was part of our Texas unit
529
00:25:04,295 --> 00:25:07,173
which really felt like a,
a student film in many ways,
530
00:25:07,298 --> 00:25:08,966
a student film that just happened
to involve
531
00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:11,469
one of the biggest
movie stars of all time.
532
00:25:11,594 --> 00:25:13,554
I think it was a lot of fun
for Bob to do that.
533
00:25:13,638 --> 00:25:16,391
To just run into this bank,
shoot these quick,
534
00:25:16,474 --> 00:25:19,852
these quick scenes,
pack into a van, drive to the next one.
535
00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:24,565
This scene has, there,
there we have Keith Carradine.
536
00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:26,984
The one shot and the one line
he has in the entire scene.
537
00:25:27,235 --> 00:25:28,945
He came in to play
the police captain.
538
00:25:29,112 --> 00:25:32,240
And there were originally
quite a few more scenes with him.
539
00:25:32,365 --> 00:25:35,785
But we... turned out we didn't need
as much police station business
540
00:25:35,868 --> 00:25:38,162
in the movie as we had.
541
00:25:38,246 --> 00:25:41,040
And so, almost all of his,
his scenes got...
542
00:25:41,124 --> 00:25:43,793
hit the cutting room floor
except for that one line.
543
00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,629
But they will be on the Blu-ray.
He has one really beautiful scene with...
544
00:25:46,754 --> 00:25:49,841
Casey that we,
wrote the night before we shot.
545
00:25:49,966 --> 00:25:51,342
I just kept... I have a bad habit
546
00:25:51,426 --> 00:25:53,678
of just writing more scenes
for characters,
547
00:25:53,803 --> 00:25:55,138
because I love working
with the actors.
548
00:25:55,304 --> 00:25:57,640
And so we had this amazing scene with him
549
00:25:57,765 --> 00:26:00,476
and Casey
that is beautiful and elegiac
550
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,355
and is a perfect capper
to the John Hunt arc.
551
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,692
But it just didn't fit in the movie.
So tune in to the Blu-ray to...
552
00:26:07,859 --> 00:26:09,569
which I think you're probably
watching this on, hopefully.
553
00:26:09,694 --> 00:26:14,490
And it'll be there.
This is another scene in, in Fort Worth.
554
00:26:14,615 --> 00:26:16,701
It's a really wonderful bank
in downtown Forth Worth.
555
00:26:16,826 --> 00:26:19,120
I think it's called
the Worthington Bank.
556
00:26:19,203 --> 00:26:21,956
And it had this wonderful mural
that we saw Forrest walk past.
557
00:26:22,081 --> 00:26:26,794
And he... I should also mention,
558
00:26:26,919 --> 00:26:30,214
this scene has been in every draft of
the script in one way or another.
559
00:26:30,339 --> 00:26:32,467
It took me four drafts of...
560
00:26:32,550 --> 00:26:34,010
or four years of writing this script,
561
00:26:34,135 --> 00:26:35,636
plus making two other movies
in the meantime.
562
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,472
But this was one of those scenes
that was always there.
563
00:26:37,555 --> 00:26:40,808
This scene where a woman cries,
because she is being robbed
564
00:26:40,933 --> 00:26:42,685
at gunpoint which is a terrible thing.
565
00:26:42,810 --> 00:26:45,563
And then somehow
he manages to just still...
566
00:26:45,688 --> 00:26:48,733
still charm her and make her smile.
567
00:26:48,858 --> 00:26:50,777
Whether that's a good thing or not,
I don't know.
568
00:26:50,902 --> 00:26:52,445
Forrest Tucker occupies a weird,
569
00:26:52,570 --> 00:26:56,407
gray area in terms of morality,
for me, as a story teller.
570
00:26:56,532 --> 00:27:00,077
Because I do not condone what he does.
I hate that he uses a gun.
571
00:27:00,244 --> 00:27:05,082
Whether it's loaded or not,
it doesn't matter to me. I hate it.
572
00:27:05,208 --> 00:27:08,878
And yet I still like him.
I like what he represents
573
00:27:09,045 --> 00:27:13,466
in terms of his sense of perseverance
and spirit and doing what he loves.
574
00:27:13,591 --> 00:27:15,468
And it's impossible not to just like him.
575
00:27:15,593 --> 00:27:18,095
And so there are lots of people
in this world
576
00:27:18,221 --> 00:27:19,722
and this country who I disagree with,
577
00:27:19,847 --> 00:27:22,725
but who I could still have
a conversation with.
578
00:27:22,809 --> 00:27:25,436
And who I might still like,
begrudgingly or not.
579
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:27,021
And Forrest Tucker is one of those.
580
00:27:27,104 --> 00:27:30,024
I often ask myself,
how can I make a movie about a guy
581
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:33,694
who does something
that I don't agree with.
582
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,364
And I think it was somewhat valuable
for me to do that.
583
00:27:36,489 --> 00:27:39,075
Whether or not
you feel like this movie
584
00:27:39,158 --> 00:27:42,870
is letting him off the hook or not,
which it kind of is.
585
00:27:42,995 --> 00:27:45,873
I do feel like it was valuable
to engage with him and,
586
00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:48,751
and find things to like about him.
And there is a lot to like about him.
587
00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:52,880
I mean, I found myself
really admiring him,
588
00:27:53,047 --> 00:27:54,632
and enjoying him.
589
00:27:54,757 --> 00:27:56,342
And, of course,
having Robert Redford play him,
590
00:27:56,467 --> 00:27:58,469
does a lot of that
heavy lifting for you,
591
00:27:58,594 --> 00:28:03,057
'cause you can't help but like him.
But I really, I really appreciated the...
592
00:28:03,182 --> 00:28:05,893
chance to just,
like, exist in that gray area.
593
00:28:06,018 --> 00:28:08,813
Whether it was, whether I ultimately
think Forrest Tucker
594
00:28:08,896 --> 00:28:12,149
was a good person or not, I don't know.
I can't answer that right now.
595
00:28:12,275 --> 00:28:14,068
I don't think there is an answer to it.
596
00:28:14,193 --> 00:28:15,945
There's good and bad in everybody.
597
00:28:16,028 --> 00:28:18,906
But I liked playing around
in that gray area.
598
00:28:21,868 --> 00:28:24,120
There's nothing better
than being on horse ranch
599
00:28:24,245 --> 00:28:28,666
with Robert Redford and Sissy Spacek.
It just puts you in a Zen state.
600
00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:31,627
You just feel like
you're where you belong.
601
00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:34,046
This shot right here,
just zooming into him,
602
00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:37,675
is just one of those
most beautiful shots in the film.
603
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,553
I just love just taking
the patience to just sit there
604
00:28:40,678 --> 00:28:43,055
and watch their performance.
605
00:28:43,222 --> 00:28:45,558
Watch Sissy ask him these questions.
606
00:28:45,683 --> 00:28:50,646
And then watch him...
maybe lie to her face.
607
00:28:50,771 --> 00:28:52,356
I don't know, maybe.
It was interesting.
608
00:28:52,481 --> 00:28:54,358
We didn't really talk about it too much.
609
00:28:54,483 --> 00:28:56,861
It was sort of like...
maybe he's lying.
610
00:28:56,986 --> 00:28:58,779
Maybe he doesn't know that he has kids.
611
00:28:58,905 --> 00:29:01,490
Maybe he's forgotten.
Maybe that's not who he is anymore.
612
00:29:01,616 --> 00:29:04,243
But... again, it's definitely a gray area.
613
00:29:04,327 --> 00:29:06,329
And it was important
to keep that moment in there.
614
00:29:08,247 --> 00:29:11,542
I love letting Casey's kids
help him solve the case.
615
00:29:11,626 --> 00:29:14,503
I really wish we could have just had
them in the car the entire time.
616
00:29:14,629 --> 00:29:17,089
Every time he goes somewhere,
he's just bringing his kids with him.
617
00:29:17,214 --> 00:29:19,133
There was like a degree to which
we couldn't let him be
618
00:29:19,216 --> 00:29:21,636
that irresponsible of a parent.
619
00:29:21,761 --> 00:29:26,599
But certainly... his kids are his
partners in crime, so to speak.
620
00:29:26,682 --> 00:29:30,061
His partners in anti-crime.
God, that was a lame pun.
621
00:29:30,186 --> 00:29:33,397
That's not even a pun.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
622
00:29:33,481 --> 00:29:37,151
This whole sequence right here is...
623
00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:40,363
Partially that was shot in Waco.
This part's in Dayton.
624
00:29:40,446 --> 00:29:42,365
I don't know why we picked St. Louis.
625
00:29:42,448 --> 00:29:44,116
I mean, we could have just made
this actually Dayton, Ohio.
626
00:29:44,241 --> 00:29:46,994
But the script said St. Louis,
so we stuck with it.
627
00:29:48,162 --> 00:29:49,872
Never see the St. Louis arch.
628
00:29:49,997 --> 00:29:52,750
This shot right here, I mean,
that's really Robert Redford
629
00:29:52,875 --> 00:29:55,336
standing at the edge
of a 20-story building.
630
00:29:55,461 --> 00:29:58,881
He had a safety line on in case
he got too close to the edge.
631
00:29:58,965 --> 00:30:01,926
And I just, this shot right here
is just one of those
632
00:30:02,051 --> 00:30:03,970
things where you just don't
quite know if you can pull it off.
633
00:30:04,095 --> 00:30:06,222
It's a focus puller's nightmare.
634
00:30:06,305 --> 00:30:08,975
You have to pull iris as well.
And getting all the timing right.
635
00:30:09,058 --> 00:30:11,018
But, man, it was fun to do.
636
00:30:13,479 --> 00:30:15,314
I wanted there to be a lot of...
637
00:30:16,983 --> 00:30:20,736
...bits and bobs of planning heists,
and the little, the details.
638
00:30:20,861 --> 00:30:23,656
But I also never wanted
to get too caught up in, like,
639
00:30:23,781 --> 00:30:26,617
the fact that they are
actually robbing banks.
640
00:30:26,742 --> 00:30:29,578
We had that one great,
rainy day bank robbery sequence.
641
00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:33,040
And then this one felt like it
was setting us up
642
00:30:33,207 --> 00:30:35,543
for, like, the next big score.
643
00:30:35,626 --> 00:30:37,461
And there's all this dialogue
suggesting that they're trying something
644
00:30:37,545 --> 00:30:39,672
that's bigger
than what they normally do.
645
00:30:39,797 --> 00:30:43,342
But there's also part of me
that just doesn't really...
646
00:30:43,467 --> 00:30:44,719
It's not that I don't care.
647
00:30:44,802 --> 00:30:46,345
It's just that I've seen it all before.
648
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:49,390
We've seen so many great heist films.
649
00:30:49,515 --> 00:30:52,518
And so I loved the idea
that we're gonna set it up,
650
00:30:52,643 --> 00:30:55,688
but then just skip past
the heist itself.
651
00:30:55,813 --> 00:30:58,232
So there's all these beats
that are just letting us know
652
00:30:58,357 --> 00:31:00,526
that they know what that they're...
that they know what they're doing.
653
00:31:00,609 --> 00:31:03,237
They're professionals.
They're on the job.
654
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,905
They've got a plan of some sort.
655
00:31:04,989 --> 00:31:06,449
We never know exactly what it is.
656
00:31:06,574 --> 00:31:08,576
But they're putting something together.
657
00:31:10,536 --> 00:31:11,954
And we see that.
We see them.
658
00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:15,124
We start to ramp up,
the music is suggesting
659
00:31:15,249 --> 00:31:17,084
that we're building towards something.
660
00:31:17,209 --> 00:31:21,464
But we never fully have a grasp
of exactly what their plan is.
661
00:31:21,589 --> 00:31:24,341
And then, we skip right past it.
662
00:31:24,467 --> 00:31:29,430
We never see the actual robbery.
And I love the perversity of that.
663
00:31:29,555 --> 00:31:31,307
I don't know, maybe it's...
664
00:31:31,432 --> 00:31:33,350
Sometimes I watch, and I'm, like,
did we push it too far?
665
00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:36,187
Should we have seen the actual robbery?
666
00:31:36,312 --> 00:31:40,566
But there's something nice about
just taking a detour.
667
00:31:40,691 --> 00:31:43,027
This whole sequence was...
668
00:31:43,152 --> 00:31:45,738
again, all about just laying
the groundwork
669
00:31:45,863 --> 00:31:49,492
for a robbery that we will never see.
we're establishing geography.
670
00:31:49,617 --> 00:31:55,247
We're letting audiences know exactly
how they might plan to pull this off.
671
00:31:55,372 --> 00:31:59,460
But the real purpose of this scene
is not to do those things,
672
00:31:59,585 --> 00:32:04,715
which we are nonetheless doing,
but to give Forrest a moment of pause.
673
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,676
To have him see something else that...
674
00:32:07,802 --> 00:32:10,679
that maybe could lead him
down a different avenue.
675
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,059
He looks here and sees these guys,
676
00:32:15,184 --> 00:32:17,645
taking the... taking the money
out of the vault.
677
00:32:17,728 --> 00:32:20,356
And he's clocking them.
678
00:32:20,439 --> 00:32:24,318
And he's doing all the things
he does when he's planning a robbery.
679
00:32:24,401 --> 00:32:27,279
But then he gets distracted.
And those distractions,
680
00:32:27,404 --> 00:32:30,783
both literally the one
we're seeing right here...
681
00:32:30,908 --> 00:32:32,660
and figuratively are
682
00:32:32,743 --> 00:32:35,204
the things that are more
exciting to me as a filmmaker.
683
00:32:35,287 --> 00:32:36,997
And as an audience member.
684
00:32:37,081 --> 00:32:39,041
I'm always just thinking,
to myself, like, yes,
685
00:32:39,166 --> 00:32:41,210
sometimes I do want to see
a really good heist film.
686
00:32:41,293 --> 00:32:42,586
But I also know there are lots of films
687
00:32:42,711 --> 00:32:45,464
I can turn to,
to provide that satisfaction.
688
00:32:45,589 --> 00:32:48,008
And what can I do
that's a little bit different.
689
00:32:48,134 --> 00:32:51,053
And sometimes it's just, like,
letting them get distracted.
690
00:32:52,346 --> 00:32:54,682
Other times it's stopping
the movie dead, so Tom Waits
691
00:32:54,765 --> 00:32:57,101
can give a monologue
about why he hates Christmas.
692
00:32:57,268 --> 00:33:01,105
And... there's no logical,
693
00:33:01,230 --> 00:33:03,899
narrative reason for this scene
to be in the film.
694
00:33:04,024 --> 00:33:06,986
It is completely superfluous to the plot.
695
00:33:07,111 --> 00:33:09,905
But the movie would not be
as good without it.
696
00:33:10,030 --> 00:33:12,032
This was story that Tom told me.
697
00:33:12,158 --> 00:33:16,871
And as far as I know,
it's a 100 percent true
698
00:33:16,954 --> 00:33:21,667
and autobiographical tale
from the life of Tom Waits.
699
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:26,005
And who am I to doubt that.
I completely believe that this happened.
700
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:31,927
And when Tom told it to me,
I asked if we could use it in the film.
701
00:33:32,052 --> 00:33:33,971
And he said, sure.
702
00:33:34,096 --> 00:33:36,140
So wrote it into the script.
It was there in the schedule.
703
00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:38,184
Everyone knew it was gonna be
the day where we shot Tom Waits
704
00:33:38,267 --> 00:33:41,061
telling the story
of why he hates Christmas.
705
00:33:41,145 --> 00:33:43,230
And when we got to the edit,
706
00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:46,108
I think there was some doubt about
whether it would make the final cut.
707
00:33:46,233 --> 00:33:48,277
Because again, it's superfluous.
708
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,654
The movie's built up
to a certain rhythm.
709
00:33:50,779 --> 00:33:54,575
But when I say it's superfluous,
I'm lying, because it's essential.
710
00:33:54,742 --> 00:33:56,827
This is a type of movie
711
00:33:56,911 --> 00:34:00,080
where a scene like this
is 100 percent essential.
712
00:34:00,206 --> 00:34:03,834
And if we had cut it out,
if it had hit the cutting room floor,
713
00:34:03,959 --> 00:34:06,629
that would have been a real sadness.
714
00:34:06,712 --> 00:34:09,089
A little part of me
would have died inside.
715
00:34:09,215 --> 00:34:12,343
And so we kept it. We had to keep it.
We were compelled to keep it.
716
00:34:12,509 --> 00:34:14,637
We shot it for a reason.
717
00:34:14,762 --> 00:34:16,764
And that reason lives on
right here on screen.
718
00:34:16,847 --> 00:34:20,017
And I'm just glad it's there.
719
00:34:20,142 --> 00:34:22,519
This is the final scene
we shot in the film.
720
00:34:22,645 --> 00:34:24,521
This is Fort Worth, Texas.
721
00:34:24,647 --> 00:34:29,026
Beautiful Fort Worth skyline back there,
standing in for, I guess...
722
00:34:29,151 --> 00:34:32,112
I guess the Dayton version
of St. Louis, Missouri.
723
00:34:32,238 --> 00:34:34,448
And...
724
00:34:34,531 --> 00:34:37,993
I just feel like you can see
how happy Bob is in this scene.
725
00:34:38,118 --> 00:34:40,829
The film is done.
726
00:34:40,913 --> 00:34:43,999
He had a great time making it.
And you just see the smile on his face.
727
00:34:44,124 --> 00:34:47,795
And after this shot was over,
we did a couple takes.
728
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,256
We were considering doing another angle,
but we did this one.
729
00:34:50,381 --> 00:34:52,883
And we just ran through
all the dialogue.
730
00:34:53,008 --> 00:34:56,804
He nailed it. And we called the cut.
And that was that.
731
00:34:56,887 --> 00:35:00,641
We all applauded,
he got in his car, and he drove off.
732
00:35:00,766 --> 00:35:03,185
And now he's saying he's never gonna
act again. He's saying he's retiring.
733
00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:07,564
So if that is the last scene he ever
shoots in a movie, it was a fun one.
734
00:35:08,857 --> 00:35:13,237
This is a fictional western
edited together by many...
735
00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:17,908
Edited together from many different
public domain westerns.
736
00:35:17,992 --> 00:35:20,577
Josh Jacobs, my assistant on the film,
737
00:35:20,703 --> 00:35:22,371
a wonderful friend,
738
00:35:22,496 --> 00:35:25,082
he cut those together
on Final Cut Pro 7,
739
00:35:25,165 --> 00:35:27,584
which I was delighted
to see he still used,
740
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:29,628
and kind of invented
this western that needed
741
00:35:29,753 --> 00:35:31,463
to just kind of build up
throughout the scene.
742
00:35:31,547 --> 00:35:34,383
And then climax in a gun fight,
743
00:35:34,508 --> 00:35:37,428
which was made up of many different gun
fights from many different movies.
744
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,223
When we were shooting it...
745
00:35:41,348 --> 00:35:43,309
Bob just kept getting
caught up in the film.
746
00:35:43,392 --> 00:35:45,602
Like, he would just sit there
747
00:35:45,728 --> 00:35:49,940
and was actually just enjoying
the movie that was on the TV
748
00:35:50,024 --> 00:35:51,817
and kept getting distracted
which was great.
749
00:35:51,942 --> 00:35:53,485
That plays into the scene.
750
00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:56,071
He's not paying attention
to these guys' banter at all.
751
00:35:56,155 --> 00:35:59,116
He is just caught up in this western.
752
00:35:59,241 --> 00:36:02,369
This line that Danny has here,
this was like the line for Danny.
753
00:36:02,453 --> 00:36:05,831
I wanted it to be
an iconic moment for him.
754
00:36:05,956 --> 00:36:09,043
And it was only in post-production
that I realized that it was...
755
00:36:09,126 --> 00:36:11,003
It was essentially a...
756
00:36:11,128 --> 00:36:14,882
paraphrase of him saying,
"I'm getting too old for this shit."
757
00:36:15,007 --> 00:36:18,635
And I'm grateful that he didn't
call me out on that, on set.
758
00:36:20,346 --> 00:36:22,556
Definitely when we
were shooting in public.
759
00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:25,517
When Danny Glover goes out in public,
that's a refrain
760
00:36:25,642 --> 00:36:28,354
that he has to deal with,
I'm sure, on a day-to-day basis.
761
00:36:28,479 --> 00:36:32,775
Just people calling out, "Hey Danny,
I'm getting too old for this shit."
762
00:36:34,693 --> 00:36:36,695
That was Toby Halbrooks
and Annell Brodeur,
763
00:36:36,820 --> 00:36:38,655
our producer and costume designer,
764
00:36:38,739 --> 00:36:40,908
arguing in the parking lot
in the preceding scene.
765
00:36:41,075 --> 00:36:43,952
And they're arguing about something
766
00:36:44,078 --> 00:36:46,080
that I think really happened
to them in their relationship.
767
00:36:46,163 --> 00:36:50,584
I don't know the exact details.
But I just wanted them to be fighting.
768
00:36:50,667 --> 00:36:53,504
They are dressed as characters
from the classic documentary,
769
00:36:53,629 --> 00:36:56,924
Heavy Metal Parking Lot.
It made sense at the time.
770
00:36:57,049 --> 00:36:59,134
I can't remember why we chose that.
771
00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:02,096
I mean, I think
it's set in Ohio, isn't it?
772
00:37:02,221 --> 00:37:03,555
So maybe it was
just because we were in Ohio.
773
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,016
And we felt like we were,
774
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:08,685
we were soaking up
Heavy Metal Parking Lot vibes.
775
00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:10,896
It's either Ohio or Indiana.
Can't remember.
776
00:37:11,021 --> 00:37:13,857
Either way, it's a great documentary.
Definitely seek it out.
777
00:37:15,692 --> 00:37:20,280
We really wanted all of the
televisions in this film to be real.
778
00:37:20,364 --> 00:37:23,158
Here's my favorite Barlow Jacobs movie.
779
00:37:23,283 --> 00:37:25,119
He's about to pop up
over Casey's shoulder.
780
00:37:25,285 --> 00:37:28,205
And even though he has no dialogue,
781
00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:32,835
he is busting Casey's chops right there
in the background right there.
782
00:37:32,918 --> 00:37:34,920
We really wanted all
the televisions to be functional.
783
00:37:35,045 --> 00:37:37,548
So all of these scenes
were shot with real...
784
00:37:37,631 --> 00:37:39,800
We shot all these scenes on video,
all of the news casts,
785
00:37:39,883 --> 00:37:44,012
all of the interviews here,
and then played them back live on set,
786
00:37:44,221 --> 00:37:46,974
which was way harder than
we thought it was going to be.
787
00:37:47,057 --> 00:37:49,184
We thought we would just,
788
00:37:49,309 --> 00:37:51,395
have a digital file
that we would run into a TV.
789
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,647
But we were using all of these,
what are essentially now,
790
00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:54,940
antique televisions that barely work.
791
00:37:55,065 --> 00:37:58,068
And we actually had
to hire a specialist,
792
00:37:58,152 --> 00:38:01,321
from New York
to come run video on set.
793
00:38:01,447 --> 00:38:05,242
And it turns out he had done
all of the video on Quiz Show,
794
00:38:05,367 --> 00:38:07,369
which was a fun little coincidence.
795
00:38:07,453 --> 00:38:09,455
We kept meeting all these people
who had worked with Redford in the past.
796
00:38:09,580 --> 00:38:12,458
Which isn't surprising when you've had
a career as long he has.
797
00:38:12,583 --> 00:38:14,793
He's worked with probably
everyone in the industry.
798
00:38:14,918 --> 00:38:17,045
But all these people
would show up who had a
799
00:38:17,171 --> 00:38:19,923
long-standing history with Bob.
And they'd get to
800
00:38:20,048 --> 00:38:23,218
catch up with him
and talk about the good old days.
801
00:38:23,343 --> 00:38:25,888
And I'd like to think we were keeping
the good old days alive.
802
00:38:26,013 --> 00:38:27,806
The good, good old days,
not the bad, good old days.
803
00:38:28,015 --> 00:38:30,559
These days, the good old days
have a bad connotation.
804
00:38:30,684 --> 00:38:34,021
But we were trying to
stay true to the good ones.
805
00:38:35,731 --> 00:38:38,275
So now we've jumped
past the big robbery,
806
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,277
the last big score,
807
00:38:40,402 --> 00:38:42,988
the one that these guys have
spent their whole career building up to,
808
00:38:43,113 --> 00:38:45,574
and perversely have just cut
to the aftermath of it.
809
00:38:45,741 --> 00:38:49,119
And I couldn't figure out exactly
how to shoot this sequence
810
00:38:49,203 --> 00:38:52,956
until we got there that day
and just saw the money on the floor.
811
00:38:53,081 --> 00:38:55,292
And I was like, "Okay, that
will tell us, that tells us a story."
812
00:38:55,417 --> 00:38:58,962
If you just see all that money on the
floor, you know something went wrong.
813
00:38:59,087 --> 00:39:03,175
And then we'll go from there to this,
this dialogue with the detectives.
814
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,802
And this detective here
in the blue shirt is J. Todd Anderson,
815
00:39:05,886 --> 00:39:07,054
who is our storyboard artist.
816
00:39:07,179 --> 00:39:08,639
And he is a legendary
storyboard artist,
817
00:39:08,805 --> 00:39:11,934
famous for doing every single
Coen brothers' movie
818
00:39:12,059 --> 00:39:14,311
ever made,
going back to Blood Simple.
819
00:39:14,436 --> 00:39:18,649
And he is also the dead body
in the field in Fargo.
820
00:39:18,774 --> 00:39:20,943
He shows up in movies
from time to time.
821
00:39:21,026 --> 00:39:23,737
And that maybe is
his most famous role, though.
822
00:39:23,904 --> 00:39:25,364
You only see him from the back,
823
00:39:25,447 --> 00:39:28,158
'cause he gets shot
and then lays there in the snow.
824
00:39:28,283 --> 00:39:32,246
This beat with the hundred dollar bill
was one of those nods
825
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:33,997
to the cat and mouse
826
00:39:34,122 --> 00:39:38,752
aspect of the police,
detective, cop, robber drama,
827
00:39:38,877 --> 00:39:41,088
and it was not part of the true story.
828
00:39:41,213 --> 00:39:43,590
Forrest Tucker never left
a clue like that.
829
00:39:43,757 --> 00:39:50,055
But he did, I think, enjoy the chase.
And I needed to find ways to allude
830
00:39:50,264 --> 00:39:53,767
to that cat and mouse aspect of the genre
831
00:39:53,934 --> 00:39:57,813
without ever really getting
too deep into it.
832
00:39:57,896 --> 00:40:01,024
So that was one of them,
that little hundred dollar bill beat.
833
00:40:01,149 --> 00:40:03,277
And originally there was
a lot more of that,
834
00:40:03,569 --> 00:40:06,113
a lot more of that interplay
with him and John Hunt
835
00:40:06,196 --> 00:40:08,949
and them going back and forth.
It just felt at a certain point
836
00:40:09,074 --> 00:40:10,534
that John Hunt
would definitely just catch them.
837
00:40:10,701 --> 00:40:13,745
There was a point in which,
we would have had
838
00:40:13,912 --> 00:40:18,500
to either invent too many incidents
to keep the drama going,
839
00:40:18,667 --> 00:40:21,044
or that John Hunt
would have just caught them.
840
00:40:21,169 --> 00:40:23,839
And so, I went the opposite direction,
and just removed as much I could,
841
00:40:24,006 --> 00:40:26,967
removed as much incident
as I possibly could,
842
00:40:27,217 --> 00:40:30,596
and just left little details
like that hundred dollar bill
843
00:40:30,721 --> 00:40:34,725
to sort of keep the vestiges
of a cat and mouse pursuit alive
844
00:40:34,850 --> 00:40:39,521
without ever actually spending
too much actual running time on it.
845
00:40:39,646 --> 00:40:42,566
Again, I just kept trying to look
for weird detours
846
00:40:42,691 --> 00:40:45,527
and left turns to take
that would keep us
847
00:40:45,611 --> 00:40:47,613
from following the strict path
848
00:40:47,779 --> 00:40:51,742
that most police procedurals would take.
849
00:40:51,867 --> 00:40:54,786
This was a scene that
we added in post-production,
850
00:40:54,953 --> 00:40:58,081
just an extra little beat.
Brought Barlow back, of course.
851
00:40:58,165 --> 00:41:00,417
Had to get him
in there one more time.
852
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:03,003
And um...
853
00:41:03,086 --> 00:41:04,588
the footage on the police monitors
854
00:41:04,755 --> 00:41:07,257
is not of the bank in Dayton.
855
00:41:07,382 --> 00:41:11,637
It's a train station in Fort Worth,
Texas that looked surprisingly similar.
856
00:41:11,762 --> 00:41:17,476
And so we shot all that
CCTV security camera footage. CCT?
857
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:20,437
Whatever it is.
Closed circuit security footage.
858
00:41:20,562 --> 00:41:24,316
And again had to deal
with the nightmare of playback on set.
859
00:41:24,441 --> 00:41:29,446
These two police officers, or these
two FBI agents were a real hoot.
860
00:41:29,571 --> 00:41:34,409
I really felt like I was pushing the...
861
00:41:34,534 --> 00:41:35,952
They're comic relief, certainly.
862
00:41:36,078 --> 00:41:39,414
They really are
chewing up the scenery here.
863
00:41:39,539 --> 00:41:42,709
And this really, we were pushing
the tonal boundaries of the movie
864
00:41:42,793 --> 00:41:44,878
when we shot this scene.
865
00:41:44,961 --> 00:41:46,630
We really had fun with it.
We pushed it a lot further.
866
00:41:46,713 --> 00:41:48,632
But I wanted to find just
the right balance of just
867
00:41:48,757 --> 00:41:51,259
having fun with it, letting it be funny.
868
00:41:51,343 --> 00:41:55,222
And also never going into outright...
869
00:41:55,347 --> 00:41:58,850
an outright lampoon of FBI agents,
870
00:41:58,975 --> 00:42:02,145
you know, telling a cop he's off the case.
871
00:42:02,229 --> 00:42:04,898
Every FBI agent in this film
872
00:42:04,981 --> 00:42:08,819
is named after a character
from Rick and Morty.
873
00:42:08,944 --> 00:42:12,030
And these guys are
Agent Rick and Agent Morty.
874
00:42:13,699 --> 00:42:15,659
The whole... me and my AD department,
875
00:42:15,784 --> 00:42:19,496
we are all big fans
of Rick and Morty.
876
00:42:19,621 --> 00:42:23,125
The third season premier
which was an April Fools' gag,
877
00:42:23,291 --> 00:42:25,752
it was... they premiered
that one episode on April Fools,
878
00:42:25,877 --> 00:42:29,297
which just happened to be our
first day of principal photography.
879
00:42:29,423 --> 00:42:33,760
So we felt like we wanted to just
pay back the creators of Rick and Morty
880
00:42:33,885 --> 00:42:36,596
for giving us that gift at the end
of our first day of production
881
00:42:36,722 --> 00:42:41,101
and name a bunch of characters
after characters in that show.
882
00:42:41,226 --> 00:42:44,354
This was another scene
that we shot in Fort Worth.
883
00:42:44,479 --> 00:42:45,939
We had a whole Texas unit planned.
884
00:42:46,022 --> 00:42:47,357
We knew that we were gonna go to Texas
885
00:42:47,441 --> 00:42:49,985
and shoot a lot of the movie there,
886
00:42:50,068 --> 00:42:51,695
or some of the movie there,
because we wanted it to feel like Texas.
887
00:42:51,778 --> 00:42:56,241
We had to go to Cincinnati
for budgetary reasons,
888
00:42:56,408 --> 00:42:58,493
for tax incentives.
Which is often the case with movies.
889
00:42:58,577 --> 00:43:01,538
You don't often get to shoot movies
where they actually take place.
890
00:43:01,663 --> 00:43:03,832
And it's kind of a shame,
because Cincinnati is an amazing city.
891
00:43:03,999 --> 00:43:06,626
I had an amazing time there,
and in Dayton.
892
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:09,546
And I felt bad that we
weren't actually representing Cincinnati
893
00:43:09,629 --> 00:43:11,840
by letting it be itself.
894
00:43:11,923 --> 00:43:13,925
But it did a great job
standing in for Texas.
895
00:43:14,050 --> 00:43:16,261
And then we went to Texas in October,
896
00:43:16,344 --> 00:43:18,054
after we had the first cut
of the movie together,
897
00:43:18,138 --> 00:43:20,724
and shot a number of additional scenes.
898
00:43:20,849 --> 00:43:23,727
And that's one of those
important things...
899
00:43:23,852 --> 00:43:25,437
It's one of those things
that I always try to make room
900
00:43:25,562 --> 00:43:27,981
for in our budgets and our schedules.
901
00:43:28,064 --> 00:43:31,026
You can plan all day long,
902
00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:33,069
but there always gonna be things
you discover in the edit
903
00:43:33,195 --> 00:43:35,405
that you wish you had
or you wish you had a second shot at.
904
00:43:35,530 --> 00:43:39,493
And so it just makes sense to me to,
to add some padding in the budget
905
00:43:39,659 --> 00:43:42,245
to go back a couple months
after you finish shooting.
906
00:43:42,329 --> 00:43:45,457
And get some extra pieces
that you think you might need.
907
00:43:45,582 --> 00:43:47,793
Or that you know you want
at that point.
908
00:43:47,918 --> 00:43:52,589
And there's always a negative
connotation around reshoots or pickups.
909
00:43:52,672 --> 00:43:56,343
But it's one of the greatest gifts
you can give to yourself as a filmmaker.
910
00:43:56,426 --> 00:43:58,178
There's always gonna be
those things that you know
911
00:43:58,261 --> 00:44:00,096
if you had the chance to do again,
912
00:44:00,222 --> 00:44:02,724
or the chance to pick up
that would make the movie better.
913
00:44:02,808 --> 00:44:04,684
And you don't know what they are
when you're shooting.
914
00:44:04,768 --> 00:44:07,103
Sometimes you discover them
while you're shooting.
915
00:44:07,229 --> 00:44:09,105
But very often it's not until you're
in the edit that you just realize,
916
00:44:09,189 --> 00:44:10,899
"I wish I had this shot."
917
00:44:10,982 --> 00:44:13,568
Or, "I wish had another scene
to get this point across."
918
00:44:13,693 --> 00:44:16,863
And so to have the opportunity to go...
919
00:44:16,988 --> 00:44:19,324
to go shoot those things
is a wonderful luxury
920
00:44:19,449 --> 00:44:21,785
to afford yourself as a filmmaker.
921
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:24,162
And I'll always make sure that
our budgets have a little extra padding
922
00:44:24,287 --> 00:44:26,748
and that our actors
are ready to come back,
923
00:44:26,873 --> 00:44:28,542
'cause it's...
924
00:44:28,667 --> 00:44:31,628
You can't always do it,
but it's always important to try.
925
00:44:31,753 --> 00:44:33,839
This scene right here existed,
926
00:44:34,047 --> 00:44:37,509
because when we were location scouting,
we found this house that we liked.
927
00:44:37,634 --> 00:44:40,512
And it just happened to be across
the street from a cemetery.
928
00:44:40,637 --> 00:44:43,306
And so, of course,
I just had to write that in.
929
00:44:43,431 --> 00:44:46,518
This little beat right here
with John David Washington,
930
00:44:46,643 --> 00:44:50,522
who is an amazing actor,
who came in for this very small part
931
00:44:50,647 --> 00:44:52,274
and really did an amazing job.
932
00:44:52,482 --> 00:44:54,442
So often he was just reacting to Casey,
933
00:44:54,568 --> 00:44:56,111
or there in the background,
or off screen.
934
00:44:56,236 --> 00:44:59,906
But he really came in,
and just had so much fun with us.
935
00:45:00,115 --> 00:45:02,576
But that moment right there
is based on this old...
936
00:45:03,076 --> 00:45:05,328
photograph from a police department
937
00:45:05,412 --> 00:45:08,123
in the early eighties
that our production designer,
938
00:45:08,206 --> 00:45:10,375
Scott Kuzio had on his,
his wall of reference material.
939
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:13,587
And it was of two cops
playing with a police puppet,
940
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:16,006
like a little policeman puppet.
And it just made me laugh.
941
00:45:16,172 --> 00:45:17,924
And I really wanted to have
a moment with that.
942
00:45:18,049 --> 00:45:20,886
So we found one of those old puppets
and gave it to JD,
943
00:45:21,094 --> 00:45:23,847
and just let him have fun with it.
944
00:45:23,972 --> 00:45:26,975
Now this is an iconic Robert Redford
shot if ever there was one.
945
00:45:27,225 --> 00:45:30,812
This was a scene where he was
originally supposed to be on the horse.
946
00:45:30,896 --> 00:45:33,023
He was supposed to be
riding horses with Sissy.
947
00:45:33,148 --> 00:45:35,692
But we realized right before
we shot it that it made sense.
948
00:45:35,859 --> 00:45:38,153
He talks about wanting to ride a horse
at the beginning of the movie,
949
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,280
and he's on a horse at the end.
950
00:45:40,363 --> 00:45:42,449
So in this one, he should just be
sitting there watching her.
951
00:45:42,532 --> 00:45:44,034
And the dynamic
just instantly came to life.
952
00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:45,535
That was what this scene
was supposed to be.
953
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:48,288
And plus we get
this amazing shot of him
954
00:45:48,371 --> 00:45:52,167
just standing against
the fence looking like a hero.
955
00:45:52,292 --> 00:45:54,628
And he was wearing this blue suit
through the entire movie,
956
00:45:54,711 --> 00:45:56,588
except for the end.
957
00:45:56,713 --> 00:46:00,550
And that came from the original
New Yorker article.
958
00:46:00,634 --> 00:46:03,511
There was an illustration
of a robber running out of a bank
959
00:46:03,637 --> 00:46:06,014
wearing a blue suit and a brown fedora.
960
00:46:06,139 --> 00:46:08,642
And so when I was
talking to Annell Brodeur,
961
00:46:08,767 --> 00:46:10,602
our costume designer, I just said, like,
"Let's just use that."
962
00:46:10,727 --> 00:46:13,313
And let's just keep in that
through the whole film.
963
00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:17,484
I really love the idea of distilling
this character down to a silhouette,
964
00:46:17,692 --> 00:46:20,862
both thematically and visually.
965
00:46:20,987 --> 00:46:24,491
And so... I just thought,
let's keep him in a,
966
00:46:24,574 --> 00:46:26,576
in one costume
through the entire movie.
967
00:46:26,660 --> 00:46:30,372
And then have all the other characters
wear kind of the same thing, as well.
968
00:46:30,538 --> 00:46:32,540
Like, their costumes change,
but they all look kind of the same.
969
00:46:32,666 --> 00:46:35,543
And the benefit of that is we could
just move these scenes
970
00:46:35,669 --> 00:46:38,505
around wherever we wanted.
And try them out in different places.
971
00:46:38,838 --> 00:46:41,049
So these scenes with Sissy,
for example,
972
00:46:41,257 --> 00:46:43,593
we tried them
at the beginning of the movie,
973
00:46:43,677 --> 00:46:45,929
right after he meets Sissy.
We tried them later on in the film.
974
00:46:46,054 --> 00:46:48,014
They moved around a lot.
And we had the freedom to do that,
975
00:46:48,181 --> 00:46:51,101
because the characters were always
wearing the same thing.
976
00:46:51,226 --> 00:46:54,104
And there were no,
there's no risk of continuity.
977
00:46:54,229 --> 00:46:56,439
So that was a...
You can't do that with every movie.
978
00:46:56,564 --> 00:46:58,608
But it felt like a smart thing to do here.
979
00:46:58,692 --> 00:47:00,443
I know Francis Ford Coppola
did that in The Conversation.
980
00:47:00,568 --> 00:47:02,404
And I remember Walter Murch
talking about what a boon
981
00:47:02,529 --> 00:47:04,072
it was to the editing process.
982
00:47:04,155 --> 00:47:05,615
So it's something I've always
kept in mind.
983
00:47:05,740 --> 00:47:07,325
And I'm sure I'll do it again
at some point.
984
00:47:07,450 --> 00:47:09,828
It just makes editing
so much more fun and easy.
985
00:47:09,953 --> 00:47:12,497
And you can have
so much more fun with it.
986
00:47:12,622 --> 00:47:14,457
The characters in this scene
are really sort of
987
00:47:14,582 --> 00:47:19,254
just espousing my own
personal philosophies on life.
988
00:47:19,379 --> 00:47:21,923
I've wanted to make movies
since I was seven years old.
989
00:47:22,048 --> 00:47:25,051
And I've been doing it ever since then.
990
00:47:25,176 --> 00:47:28,388
And often I pause,
and in moments of self-doubt,
991
00:47:28,513 --> 00:47:32,225
I just will ask myself,
"Would the seven-year-old version of me
992
00:47:32,350 --> 00:47:33,893
be happy with where I am now?"
993
00:47:33,977 --> 00:47:36,438
Like, would he be satisfied?
994
00:47:36,563 --> 00:47:40,942
And then another part of me
will then fire back, "Maybe,
995
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:44,571
but the seven-year-old version of you
has no idea what you've gone through."
996
00:47:44,654 --> 00:47:49,576
And who is he to hold you to a certain
abstract set of expectations
997
00:47:49,701 --> 00:47:53,079
that he had with seven years
of life experience under his belt.
998
00:47:53,204 --> 00:47:57,751
And so, it was great to get to...
999
00:47:57,876 --> 00:48:00,587
have these characters
sort of lay out my own two
1000
00:48:00,670 --> 00:48:03,298
conflicting perspectives
on moving through life.
1001
00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:05,675
Both living up to my own ideals
1002
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,761
of who I would be as a child.
1003
00:48:07,886 --> 00:48:11,473
And also recognizing that there's
no reason to hold oneself to that.
1004
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:14,350
That I'm my own person.
I'm moving through life in my own way.
1005
00:48:14,434 --> 00:48:16,478
And the decisions I make
are gonna define me.
1006
00:48:16,686 --> 00:48:21,191
And there's no need
to be tied to the past.
1007
00:48:21,316 --> 00:48:25,487
This scene right here was, was one that...
1008
00:48:25,612 --> 00:48:28,198
came in and out of the edit a lot.
1009
00:48:28,323 --> 00:48:29,699
It was another scene like the Tom Waits
1010
00:48:29,783 --> 00:48:33,119
monologue that was sort of
an island unto itself.
1011
00:48:33,244 --> 00:48:37,248
And ultimately, I decided that it was
really important to keep it in.
1012
00:48:37,373 --> 00:48:39,334
Partially because I love this actress,
1013
00:48:39,417 --> 00:48:41,795
Torie Wiggins, who I met in Cincinnati.
1014
00:48:41,878 --> 00:48:44,881
She auditioned
for one of the bank teller roles...
1015
00:48:45,006 --> 00:48:46,966
in some of the other scenes.
1016
00:48:47,050 --> 00:48:50,136
And I just loved her so much that
I wanted her to play this character,
1017
00:48:50,261 --> 00:48:52,514
and just give her an entire scene.
1018
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:55,725
And then the other thing about it
is that it's the one time in the movie
1019
00:48:55,892 --> 00:49:00,313
where Bob sort of shows signs
of growing as a human being.
1020
00:49:00,438 --> 00:49:03,399
He's thinking about
someone other than himself.
1021
00:49:03,525 --> 00:49:07,112
And it's just a baby step
in a certain direction.
1022
00:49:07,278 --> 00:49:09,989
He doesn't actually commit
to what he's setting out to do.
1023
00:49:10,115 --> 00:49:11,866
But if he had had the money,
1024
00:49:12,033 --> 00:49:17,580
and if he had...
If Torie had told him that,
1025
00:49:17,705 --> 00:49:19,374
"Yeah, just give me the money and
1026
00:49:19,457 --> 00:49:22,085
her mortgage will be paid off."
He would have done it.
1027
00:49:22,210 --> 00:49:25,630
He's a character with a generous spirit.
1028
00:49:25,755 --> 00:49:28,341
And yet, he's got tunnel vision.
And this is the one moment
1029
00:49:28,466 --> 00:49:32,220
where he breaks outside of his
own myopic world view
1030
00:49:32,345 --> 00:49:35,306
to think about someone else, above his...
1031
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:37,267
Someone outside of his own self-interest.
1032
00:49:37,392 --> 00:49:40,145
And when you think about,
as a character, realistically
1033
00:49:40,270 --> 00:49:42,147
he's kind of putting himself
at risk going into a bank here.
1034
00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:45,358
Although I don't think he actually
was thinking about that.
1035
00:49:45,441 --> 00:49:49,028
And it also is just a wonderful,
I mean, I love Bob's acting here.
1036
00:49:49,112 --> 00:49:52,240
One of the things that
Bob taught me was that...
1037
00:49:52,365 --> 00:49:54,701
when you're looking at
a little monitor on set,
1038
00:49:54,826 --> 00:49:58,329
you're often not gonna see
what a great actor is doing for you.
1039
00:49:58,454 --> 00:50:00,999
You really need to see it big.
And that's one of the things you lose
1040
00:50:01,124 --> 00:50:05,086
when movies are
relegated to the small screen.
1041
00:50:05,170 --> 00:50:09,549
There's so much amazing work that he
does specifically for the big screen.
1042
00:50:09,674 --> 00:50:12,886
And often, I would miss it.
I'd see it in the monitor on the screen,
1043
00:50:12,969 --> 00:50:15,680
on the set, and then
I'd watch dailies on pics.
1044
00:50:15,805 --> 00:50:19,601
And I wouldn't see what he was doing
until we got to post-production
1045
00:50:19,726 --> 00:50:21,060
where we luckily had
a really big screen.
1046
00:50:21,186 --> 00:50:23,563
And I was able to see just how much
1047
00:50:23,646 --> 00:50:25,940
nuance he was bringing to every...
1048
00:50:26,065 --> 00:50:27,775
every moment he had
this... in this film.
1049
00:50:27,901 --> 00:50:29,402
And that's one of the reasons
he's a movie star,
1050
00:50:29,527 --> 00:50:31,321
is 'cause he does those things.
1051
00:50:31,446 --> 00:50:34,157
He knows how to make
the big screen work for him.
1052
00:50:34,282 --> 00:50:37,869
And he does things that
other actors don't think to do.
1053
00:50:37,952 --> 00:50:41,039
And I wonder if
acting styles will change as...
1054
00:50:41,164 --> 00:50:43,875
as movies gravitate
towards smaller screens.
1055
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,044
I mean that'll be a loss in my opinion,
1056
00:50:46,169 --> 00:50:49,797
but perhaps it's an inevitable one.
1057
00:50:49,923 --> 00:50:52,634
So here we have a scene
with Elisabeth Moss
1058
00:50:52,759 --> 00:50:55,845
who was kind enough
to come in for one day to
1059
00:50:55,970 --> 00:51:00,850
really sort of provide a very
specific moral center to the movie.
1060
00:51:00,934 --> 00:51:04,562
That represents the side of me
that does not approve
1061
00:51:04,687 --> 00:51:07,440
of Forrest Tucker
in any shape, way or form.
1062
00:51:07,565 --> 00:51:09,901
Here is someone who has been hurt by him,
1063
00:51:10,026 --> 00:51:13,780
and who does not...
Who is not charmed by him.
1064
00:51:13,905 --> 00:51:17,575
She does not see the twinkle in his eye.
She sees the other side of him.
1065
00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:20,078
And it was really important to have that.
1066
00:51:20,203 --> 00:51:23,539
I really wanted to
make sure that we did not...
1067
00:51:23,665 --> 00:51:26,042
sand off the rough edges
of Forrest Tucker.
1068
00:51:26,209 --> 00:51:29,087
And here, Elisabeth Moss,
beautifully represents
1069
00:51:29,212 --> 00:51:32,382
all of those rough edges.
And she is just so good.
1070
00:51:32,507 --> 00:51:35,635
I showed this film to Alex Ross Perry
1071
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,596
who's made several films with,
with Lizzy at this point.
1072
00:51:38,721 --> 00:51:41,099
And, in fact, that's how we met her.
My producing partners
1073
00:51:41,266 --> 00:51:42,809
and I worked on
Listen Up Philip with Alex.
1074
00:51:42,934 --> 00:51:45,061
And we met her on that film.
1075
00:51:45,186 --> 00:51:47,689
And one of his big notes
1076
00:51:47,814 --> 00:51:50,233
on this film was,
"Why are you cutting away from Lizzy?
1077
00:51:50,358 --> 00:51:52,193
Why are you cutting away
from her to Casey?
1078
00:51:52,318 --> 00:51:55,238
Just keep the camera on her,
because it's worth it."
1079
00:51:55,321 --> 00:51:59,826
And it was. So we...
Most of this scene is one close up
1080
00:51:59,951 --> 00:52:02,829
of Elisabeth Moss
just doing amazing work.
1081
00:52:02,954 --> 00:52:04,580
She flew in the night before.
1082
00:52:04,664 --> 00:52:06,582
I think I gave her the script pages
a few days before that.
1083
00:52:06,666 --> 00:52:08,626
And she came to set and just...
1084
00:52:08,751 --> 00:52:11,504
It was interesting, because
we had been shooting for two weeks
1085
00:52:11,587 --> 00:52:13,548
at that point with Bob and Sissy.
1086
00:52:13,631 --> 00:52:15,883
And the Bob and Sissy side of the story
was kind of over at that point.
1087
00:52:16,009 --> 00:52:19,512
And so now we were picking up
the John Hunt side of things.
1088
00:52:19,637 --> 00:52:24,267
And this was a really amazing way
to start with John Hunt.
1089
00:52:24,392 --> 00:52:26,436
I think I said earlier that
the first scene we shot with John Hunt
1090
00:52:26,561 --> 00:52:28,604
was him and his kids.
That was actually the second scene.
1091
00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:30,606
This was the first scene.
1092
00:52:30,732 --> 00:52:32,942
And it really just set a new tone
for the entire production.
1093
00:52:33,067 --> 00:52:35,486
It really, like,
put everyone on their toes again
1094
00:52:35,611 --> 00:52:40,283
after having gotten used to the rhythms
of the Bob and Sissy side of things.
1095
00:52:40,408 --> 00:52:43,369
And it was such a... I don't know.
1096
00:52:43,494 --> 00:52:47,081
It was such a beautiful thing
to see the two of them just
1097
00:52:47,290 --> 00:52:50,501
reveal this new side
of a character who we, as a crew,
1098
00:52:50,626 --> 00:52:54,797
had fallen in love
with over the past two weeks.
1099
00:52:54,881 --> 00:52:57,550
It really reminded us
exactly of what it was
1100
00:52:57,675 --> 00:53:00,345
we were making and the type of film
we were trying to make.
1101
00:53:00,470 --> 00:53:02,055
And it was really
important to Lizzy and me
1102
00:53:02,138 --> 00:53:03,431
to have her smoke
through the whole scene.
1103
00:53:03,598 --> 00:53:06,309
Even though there was a child present.
1104
00:53:06,434 --> 00:53:10,855
And it really, I don't know,
that said a lot about who she was.
1105
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:13,107
It said a lot about the time
in which the movie's set, of course,
1106
00:53:13,274 --> 00:53:16,861
but also about who she was
and how she's been hurt.
1107
00:53:16,986 --> 00:53:21,115
And it was a beautiful defense
mechanism that she used beautifully.
1108
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:25,244
This young actor who plays
Lizzy's son, his name's Asher.
1109
00:53:25,411 --> 00:53:27,246
And he was...
1110
00:53:27,330 --> 00:53:29,290
We had another actor
in mind for that scene,
1111
00:53:29,415 --> 00:53:31,250
to come play that part,
1112
00:53:31,334 --> 00:53:33,169
and he turned out not to be
available the morning of.
1113
00:53:33,252 --> 00:53:37,965
And so, our... Jane Streeter,
our locations manager,
1114
00:53:38,091 --> 00:53:40,593
just wandered around the neighborhood.
It was pretty early in the morning.
1115
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,054
And just looked for kids
who were walking to school.
1116
00:53:43,179 --> 00:53:45,890
And she saw this young man
walking to school with his mom,
1117
00:53:46,057 --> 00:53:49,602
and asked him if he would be interested
in coming and acting in a movie
1118
00:53:49,727 --> 00:53:52,980
instead of going to school.
And it turns out that that day,
1119
00:53:53,147 --> 00:53:55,483
the neighborhood knew
we were shooting a movie.
1120
00:53:55,608 --> 00:53:57,944
And apparently he had told his mom
1121
00:53:58,069 --> 00:54:01,280
that maybe if they
walked to school that day
1122
00:54:01,406 --> 00:54:05,034
and walked by the set, they would have
the opportunity to be in the film.
1123
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:08,579
And his mom said, "We can walk
by the set, but that will never happen."
1124
00:54:08,704 --> 00:54:10,540
And sure enough,
that's exactly what happened.
1125
00:54:10,706 --> 00:54:13,709
He got a line of dialogue,
playing Elisabeth Moss' son.
1126
00:54:13,835 --> 00:54:15,920
And he got to go, skip school,
1127
00:54:16,129 --> 00:54:19,298
which is the best part about
being in a movie when you're that age.
1128
00:54:19,382 --> 00:54:23,052
And he did a great job.
And so the moral of that story
1129
00:54:23,219 --> 00:54:25,346
is if you want to be in a movie,
and you're seven years old,
1130
00:54:25,513 --> 00:54:29,392
just have your mom walk you
by a set on your way to school.
1131
00:54:29,517 --> 00:54:36,274
This scene was... the first thing
we shot in the movie.
1132
00:54:36,399 --> 00:54:38,401
Because we started shooting during prep.
1133
00:54:38,985 --> 00:54:41,237
The first official day of production
was a car chase.
1134
00:54:41,362 --> 00:54:42,697
And we'll talk about that
when we get to it.
1135
00:54:42,822 --> 00:54:45,283
But this was the last day of prep.
1136
00:54:45,450 --> 00:54:48,661
And we didn't have any other room
in the schedule to,
1137
00:54:48,786 --> 00:54:51,456
shoot this scene,
to go to this location.
1138
00:54:51,581 --> 00:54:56,043
And so we just decided to
take our last day of prep and shoot it.
1139
00:54:56,169 --> 00:55:01,215
And it was a scene that Sissy and I
had spent a lot of time talking about.
1140
00:55:01,340 --> 00:55:04,510
When I first sent her the screenplay,
this scene was in it.
1141
00:55:04,635 --> 00:55:09,348
But it ended with them walking out
of the store here, and leaving the mall.
1142
00:55:09,474 --> 00:55:12,226
And it ended with
the thrill of shoplifting.
1143
00:55:12,351 --> 00:55:14,395
A thrill I remember very well
from when I was thirteen
1144
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,647
and tried shoplifting
at the mall for the first time.
1145
00:55:16,772 --> 00:55:18,858
I assume I'm not alone
in experiencing that.
1146
00:55:19,066 --> 00:55:21,360
And then later deciding that
it wasn't worth the risk,
1147
00:55:21,486 --> 00:55:23,321
after I saw a couple friends get caught.
1148
00:55:23,446 --> 00:55:27,116
I learned my lesson.
And I do not approve of shoplifting.
1149
00:55:27,241 --> 00:55:29,577
But nonetheless,
I remember that thrill well.
1150
00:55:29,827 --> 00:55:34,081
And I wanted Sissy to partake in it.
1151
00:55:34,207 --> 00:55:37,627
But then the great thing
that she did was she
1152
00:55:37,752 --> 00:55:42,131
suggested that the scene
not end with that thrill.
1153
00:55:42,256 --> 00:55:49,180
That she, wise-up, grow-up, turn around,
and be the grownup in the scene.
1154
00:55:49,305 --> 00:55:54,602
And in doing so, to help Forrest Tucker
grow up a little bit as well.
1155
00:55:54,727 --> 00:55:57,313
And so, in a way,
this scene is just a microcosm
1156
00:55:57,396 --> 00:55:59,148
of their entire relationship.
1157
00:55:59,273 --> 00:56:01,943
And I give all the credit
to Sissy for fighting for that.
1158
00:56:02,068 --> 00:56:03,152
She didn't have to fight too hard.
1159
00:56:03,277 --> 00:56:05,363
When she told me, it was a definitely a...
1160
00:56:05,655 --> 00:56:08,574
It was something that I quickly wrote
into the script and sent back to her.
1161
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:10,785
But then also fighting to make sure
we got the scene.
1162
00:56:10,952 --> 00:56:12,703
There was discussion
when we didn't have it in the schedule.
1163
00:56:12,828 --> 00:56:14,247
It was like, "Can we shoot it?
1164
00:56:14,372 --> 00:56:16,457
Can we find a location?
How do we fit it in?"
1165
00:56:16,791 --> 00:56:18,584
And she was just like,
"We have to have that scene.
1166
00:56:18,668 --> 00:56:20,795
Their whole relationship
is summed up in that scene."
1167
00:56:21,087 --> 00:56:23,214
And she was right.
And so we just all...
1168
00:56:23,339 --> 00:56:27,927
We decided to end prep one day early,
and start shooting one day early.
1169
00:56:28,010 --> 00:56:31,180
And we got it.
And it's such a wonderful scene.
1170
00:56:31,264 --> 00:56:33,015
I also love that
there's just no dialogue in it.
1171
00:56:33,140 --> 00:56:35,768
We mixed all the dialogue out for
the most part, Chris Nolan style,
1172
00:56:35,935 --> 00:56:37,728
and just let it be a silent film.
1173
00:56:39,605 --> 00:56:41,649
In this scene,
we get to meet Robert Longstreet
1174
00:56:41,899 --> 00:56:45,528
who is playing
Stephen Beckley Jr., Esquire.
1175
00:56:45,611 --> 00:56:47,947
And he is a fictional lawyer
1176
00:56:48,072 --> 00:56:53,244
based loosely on one of Forrest Tucker's
real lawyers who I corresponded with.
1177
00:56:53,369 --> 00:56:55,913
And who gave me a lot of the details
1178
00:56:56,038 --> 00:56:58,708
about his perspective
on representing Forrest,
1179
00:56:58,791 --> 00:57:02,336
and on Forrest as a person.
1180
00:57:02,461 --> 00:57:05,923
And this is the Citizen Kane
sequence of the movie where,
1181
00:57:06,090 --> 00:57:10,219
John Hunt is just sort of
uncovering who Forrest Tucker really is.
1182
00:57:10,344 --> 00:57:13,556
And in the process,
sort of falling in love with him.
1183
00:57:13,681 --> 00:57:16,934
And that is representative of my
writing process with this movie.
1184
00:57:17,143 --> 00:57:19,061
As I talk to these people.
1185
00:57:19,186 --> 00:57:23,274
Like Steve Ringhoff, the lawyer,
and the real John Hunt.
1186
00:57:23,399 --> 00:57:25,568
I kind of fell in love
with Forrest Tucker.
1187
00:57:25,693 --> 00:57:28,571
Even though, once again,
I do not approve of what he did,
1188
00:57:28,696 --> 00:57:29,905
I really liked him.
1189
00:57:30,072 --> 00:57:33,242
Outlaws are just
always gonna be appealing.
1190
00:57:33,326 --> 00:57:36,662
Culturally, America has
a love affair with the outlaw.
1191
00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:38,164
And maybe that's not a good thing.
1192
00:57:38,331 --> 00:57:42,209
Maybe that's a source
of illness in our culture.
1193
00:57:42,376 --> 00:57:43,919
But nonetheless it's part of it.
1194
00:57:44,045 --> 00:57:46,422
And there's something about
one guy going up against...
1195
00:57:46,547 --> 00:57:49,925
one guy going up against an institution
that is just ingrained in our culture.
1196
00:57:50,051 --> 00:57:53,804
It's ingrained
in the founding of our country.
1197
00:57:53,929 --> 00:57:58,934
And so there's something that is
just inherently appealing about that.
1198
00:57:59,060 --> 00:58:00,853
And so here we see John Hunt
1199
00:58:00,936 --> 00:58:04,190
just sort of falling under the sway
of Forrest Tucker's spirit,
1200
00:58:04,357 --> 00:58:06,442
and everything that he represents.
1201
00:58:06,567 --> 00:58:08,110
Anyway, I was talking about
Robert Longstreet,
1202
00:58:08,277 --> 00:58:11,864
who is just an amazing actor,
who I have known for many years.
1203
00:58:12,073 --> 00:58:14,116
In fact, I met him through
Barlow Jacobs.
1204
00:58:14,283 --> 00:58:15,868
They did a movie together
called Lo and Behold
1205
00:58:16,077 --> 00:58:20,081
that was at Sundance
back in 2007 or 2008.
1206
00:58:20,289 --> 00:58:23,626
And he's been a great friend
and a collaborator ever since.
1207
00:58:23,751 --> 00:58:25,044
He was in Ain't Them Bodies Saints,
1208
00:58:25,211 --> 00:58:27,463
playing Gene Dentler,
the part that Isiah Whitlock
1209
00:58:27,713 --> 00:58:31,384
then played in
Pete's Dragon and in this film.
1210
00:58:31,509 --> 00:58:35,012
And he... can always count on me to
1211
00:58:35,221 --> 00:58:37,014
try to get him in a movie
and to give him a monologue.
1212
00:58:37,181 --> 00:58:39,058
'Cause he's just an amazing...
1213
00:58:39,225 --> 00:58:43,145
He can just spin yarn like nobody else.
1214
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:46,774
This whole sequence was, at one point,
1215
00:58:46,899 --> 00:58:48,984
in an early draft
of the script that,
1216
00:58:49,068 --> 00:58:50,986
followed Forrest throughout his career,
1217
00:58:51,112 --> 00:58:54,740
was an actual scene in the movie
that had an impact on the narrative.
1218
00:58:54,824 --> 00:58:58,619
And at a certain point,
when the movie became more focused,
1219
00:58:58,744 --> 00:59:03,040
and we zeroed
in this one period in Forrest's life,
1220
00:59:03,165 --> 00:59:04,667
the scene fell by
the wayside narratively.
1221
00:59:04,834 --> 00:59:06,335
But I wanted to hang onto it.
1222
00:59:06,460 --> 00:59:07,962
I felt like there was
a lot of value in it.
1223
00:59:08,045 --> 00:59:10,339
And it was great
to see him in his heyday.
1224
00:59:10,464 --> 00:59:14,051
There's something so
triumphant about seeing him
1225
00:59:14,176 --> 00:59:15,845
drive through that cornfield.
1226
00:59:18,180 --> 00:59:21,517
And I also just wanted to have
a car chase in a 55 Chevy...
1227
00:59:23,602 --> 00:59:25,980
...to kind of like nod
to Two-Lane Blacktop,
1228
00:59:26,063 --> 00:59:28,733
which is one of my
favorite movies of all time.
1229
00:59:28,858 --> 00:59:31,193
And driving in that car was a real beat.
1230
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,611
I mean, it was hard to drive.
1231
00:59:32,737 --> 00:59:34,155
It was tough.
1232
00:59:34,238 --> 00:59:36,574
But just seeing Bob
driving down that highway,
1233
00:59:36,741 --> 00:59:39,952
and then veer off into that field.
And then here to do this moment
1234
00:59:40,077 --> 00:59:43,789
which, in our current culture,
this is a very questionable scene.
1235
00:59:43,998 --> 00:59:48,794
But when it was written, it was just...
The idea was to give Bob
1236
00:59:49,003 --> 00:59:52,131
another one of those iconic,
outlaw moments.
1237
00:59:52,256 --> 00:59:55,718
And again, can we still
enjoy those outlaw moments?
1238
00:59:55,843 --> 00:59:58,179
I don't know.
Maybe this is the last time
1239
00:59:58,429 --> 01:00:00,431
we get to put a scene
like that in a movie.
1240
01:00:00,556 --> 01:00:02,183
It's certainly the last time
I'll put a scene like that in a movie.
1241
01:00:02,266 --> 01:00:03,225
But...
1242
01:00:04,894 --> 01:00:07,980
I still appreciate it. I still
appreciate it from that perspective.
1243
01:00:08,189 --> 01:00:12,818
To see him stand there, surrounded by
police cars with his hands in the air.
1244
01:00:12,902 --> 01:00:15,488
It's sort of like the Butch Cassidy
scene in some ways.
1245
01:00:15,571 --> 01:00:18,199
And he's not going out
in a blaze of glory.
1246
01:00:18,365 --> 01:00:21,577
There would be no glory to have,
if he were to go out in a blaze.
1247
01:00:21,702 --> 01:00:24,371
But something about him
staying there on a windswept highway
1248
01:00:24,497 --> 01:00:26,916
is iconic in a meaningful way.
1249
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:32,421
So...
1250
01:00:32,546 --> 01:00:35,049
there was always a lot of question
about whether not
1251
01:00:35,257 --> 01:00:38,469
John Hunt
should actually catch Forrest Tucker.
1252
01:00:38,594 --> 01:00:42,932
In real life, he did not catch him.
In real life, he never even met him.
1253
01:00:43,057 --> 01:00:48,187
But there's some demand
in this genre for the cops
1254
01:00:48,437 --> 01:00:50,231
and the robbers to not only meet,
1255
01:00:50,564 --> 01:00:53,609
but for them ultimately
to have a showdown.
1256
01:00:53,734 --> 01:00:57,321
And I think what you're having
in this scene is,
1257
01:00:57,446 --> 01:00:59,949
is John Hunt sitting there,
1258
01:01:00,074 --> 01:01:03,994
listening to music, drinking a beer,
wondering if it's gonna come to that.
1259
01:01:04,203 --> 01:01:07,581
Because so often, in the screenplay,
I would be wondering if it had to came...
1260
01:01:07,832 --> 01:01:10,000
If it was gonna have to
come down to that.
1261
01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:12,503
And in wondering that,
I would just transpose those,
1262
01:01:12,628 --> 01:01:14,255
those musings upon John Hunt,
1263
01:01:14,338 --> 01:01:19,385
and let him represent my own
conflicted feelings about it.
1264
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:22,680
He really became an avatar for me,
writing the screenplay.
1265
01:01:22,972 --> 01:01:29,478
His detective work is me trying to
figure out where the story needed to go.
1266
01:01:29,603 --> 01:01:31,522
And sometimes,
I would just try to put it off
1267
01:01:31,772 --> 01:01:36,235
by having a scene
where he comes home late at night,
1268
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,530
turns on the radio,
and dances with his wife.
1269
01:01:39,655 --> 01:01:43,325
That was, in many ways,
way more important to me than actually,
1270
01:01:43,701 --> 01:01:47,454
sticking to the chase.
1271
01:01:47,538 --> 01:01:51,959
Those moments of warmth between
him and Tika just resonate.
1272
01:01:52,084 --> 01:01:55,546
And when you're taking
these detours from the plot.
1273
01:01:55,671 --> 01:02:00,634
When you're intentionally
depriving audiences of the tropes
1274
01:02:00,718 --> 01:02:02,303
of the genre which they might expect,
1275
01:02:02,469 --> 01:02:05,389
it's really important to have
something to fill that space.
1276
01:02:05,514 --> 01:02:07,725
And what I wanted to fill that space
with in this film
1277
01:02:07,850 --> 01:02:12,980
was just warmth and humanity and love
between all of the characters.
1278
01:02:13,105 --> 01:02:14,940
And so here's a beautiful scene
1279
01:02:15,024 --> 01:02:19,194
in which they are ostensibly
talking about Forrest Tucker.
1280
01:02:19,278 --> 01:02:21,906
And John Hunt actually
has a very romantic line
1281
01:02:22,114 --> 01:02:23,699
about Forrest Tucker here.
1282
01:02:24,033 --> 01:02:26,410
But really, it's just all
about the two of them,
1283
01:02:26,702 --> 01:02:28,913
and the love that exists
between the two of them.
1284
01:02:29,288 --> 01:02:33,417
The respect they feel for each
other and the affection.
1285
01:02:33,667 --> 01:02:36,378
And I just love looking at that.
1286
01:02:36,503 --> 01:02:38,213
Claire Denis
is one of my favorite filmmakers.
1287
01:02:38,339 --> 01:02:40,007
And in some of her best films,
1288
01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:42,217
characters will just start dancing
with one another.
1289
01:02:42,343 --> 01:02:45,721
And you just feel the love
and tenderness between them.
1290
01:02:45,846 --> 01:02:48,182
And that's what I wanted
to capture there.
1291
01:02:48,265 --> 01:02:50,768
I think about this amazing scene
in a bar in 35 Shots of Rum,
1292
01:02:50,976 --> 01:02:53,395
one of her very best films.
1293
01:02:53,479 --> 01:02:57,191
And there's an amazing scene where
her father and daughter are dancing.
1294
01:02:57,316 --> 01:03:00,486
And then she leaves the father
behind to dance with her boyfriend.
1295
01:03:00,653 --> 01:03:03,530
And I don't know, I think about
that scene all the time.
1296
01:03:03,697 --> 01:03:06,116
And certainly, it comes through here.
1297
01:03:06,241 --> 01:03:09,828
So when they walk into the diner there,
it's worth noting that Casey is telling
1298
01:03:09,954 --> 01:03:13,582
Tika the entire story
of Ain't Them Bodies Saints.
1299
01:03:13,707 --> 01:03:15,292
We had some dialogue
in the script for them,
1300
01:03:15,417 --> 01:03:17,378
but there wasn't that much.
1301
01:03:17,461 --> 01:03:19,463
And, so we were always looking
for more things for them to talk about.
1302
01:03:19,672 --> 01:03:22,091
Casey often will ask me,
like, "What can I talk about?
1303
01:03:22,216 --> 01:03:23,676
Give me something to talk about."
1304
01:03:24,009 --> 01:03:27,471
But in this scene, he just asked
if he could just regale her
1305
01:03:27,596 --> 01:03:29,890
with the tale of Bob Muldoon
from Ain't Them Bodies Saints.
1306
01:03:30,015 --> 01:03:31,600
So you don't hear much of it.
1307
01:03:31,684 --> 01:03:33,602
Most of it's mixed out,
buried beneath The Kinks.
1308
01:03:33,727 --> 01:03:35,270
But you hear a little bit of it.
1309
01:03:35,396 --> 01:03:38,941
And that's what he's telling her.
1310
01:03:39,024 --> 01:03:44,571
It wasn't part of the script
to have The Kinks in this scene.
1311
01:03:44,697 --> 01:03:49,201
But when we shot the scene
of John and Maureen dancing,
1312
01:03:49,326 --> 01:03:51,328
that night I was just like, "Okay,
1313
01:03:51,412 --> 01:03:53,747
"we need to have something
for them to dance to
1314
01:03:53,872 --> 01:03:56,291
so that we can get the rhythm of it."
And I have always loved "Lola."
1315
01:03:56,375 --> 01:03:57,710
It's always been
one of my favorite songs.
1316
01:03:57,793 --> 01:03:59,420
So I just kind of pulled
that out of the hat,
1317
01:03:59,586 --> 01:04:01,505
and let that be
the song they danced to,
1318
01:04:01,672 --> 01:04:04,341
assuming that we would replace it
in post-production.
1319
01:04:04,466 --> 01:04:06,760
But what ended up happening
in post-production was that we,
1320
01:04:06,927 --> 01:04:09,138
edited that scene.
1321
01:04:09,221 --> 01:04:11,306
And when we got to the end of it,
I kept wanting to hear the song.
1322
01:04:11,432 --> 01:04:13,559
I just love "Lola."
I wanted to keep hearing it.
1323
01:04:13,892 --> 01:04:17,229
And so we...
we brought it into this scene.
1324
01:04:17,312 --> 01:04:19,273
And we started mixing it in creative ways.
1325
01:04:19,356 --> 01:04:21,900
We mixed in and out
of the diegetic and non-diegetic space.
1326
01:04:22,067 --> 01:04:24,611
So sometimes it's
part of the movie's soundtrack.
1327
01:04:24,695 --> 01:04:26,488
Sometimes it's just a song
that's playing in the diner.
1328
01:04:26,739 --> 01:04:28,490
But it's always there.
1329
01:04:28,574 --> 01:04:31,452
And it adds something to the movie
that I can't quantify.
1330
01:04:31,577 --> 01:04:34,913
I don't know why it works so well,
other than it, it just works well.
1331
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:39,293
And we tried out lots of other songs
that were more cost effective.
1332
01:04:39,418 --> 01:04:43,297
And none of them worked.
It just had to be "Lola."
1333
01:04:43,422 --> 01:04:46,842
This scene was...
There was a lot riding on this scene.
1334
01:04:46,967 --> 01:04:49,094
We never knew quite
how it was gonna take place.
1335
01:04:49,261 --> 01:04:52,097
It was written to take place in the...
1336
01:04:52,181 --> 01:04:53,682
in or around that diner.
1337
01:04:53,807 --> 01:04:54,975
We didn't know where exactly.
1338
01:04:55,059 --> 01:04:57,269
Sometimes it was
in the back parking lot.
1339
01:04:57,352 --> 01:04:59,063
Sometimes it was in the diner itself.
Sometimes it was in the bathroom.
1340
01:04:59,188 --> 01:05:01,607
And then when we
found that real diner...
1341
01:05:01,690 --> 01:05:04,109
we looked at where the restrooms were.
1342
01:05:04,359 --> 01:05:07,237
And there was this hallway.
And it wasn't exactly right.
1343
01:05:07,362 --> 01:05:09,823
But it suggested
a certain type of blocking.
1344
01:05:10,074 --> 01:05:13,494
A blocking in which Forrest Tucker
would get to escape if he
1345
01:05:13,660 --> 01:05:16,663
was able to with that back exit.
1346
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:21,168
And so we built this
on a empty lot next door to the diner.
1347
01:05:21,376 --> 01:05:24,129
And so it's the one set
in the movie that we constructed.
1348
01:05:24,379 --> 01:05:28,300
And it was constructed specifically
to allow the scene to play out this way.
1349
01:05:28,425 --> 01:05:30,177
And yeah, there was lot riding on it.
1350
01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:33,639
A lot of people wondered,
1351
01:05:33,722 --> 01:05:37,643
including me,
"Would this be enough?
1352
01:05:37,726 --> 01:05:40,729
Can we get away with John Hunt
letting Forrest Tucker go?
1353
01:05:40,854 --> 01:05:42,898
Will the audience demand
a chase after this?
1354
01:05:43,023 --> 01:05:45,526
Should he rush out that back door?"
1355
01:05:45,609 --> 01:05:46,735
In fact, that day
we had scheduled a moment
1356
01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:49,988
where he did run out the back door,
in case we felt we needed it.
1357
01:05:50,114 --> 01:05:53,700
But when we shot the scene and saw
the way the actors were playing it,
1358
01:05:53,909 --> 01:05:55,828
and saw how delighted Casey was.
1359
01:05:55,911 --> 01:05:58,080
Which was, that was
the one direction I gave him.
1360
01:05:58,163 --> 01:06:00,999
I was like, "Yes,
there's a power play in this scene.
1361
01:06:01,083 --> 01:06:03,752
But more important than that,
1362
01:06:03,877 --> 01:06:06,213
just be delighted that you're
face-to-face with Forrest Tucker.
1363
01:06:06,380 --> 01:06:09,633
Just be delighted that you're
face-to-face with Robert Redford."
1364
01:06:09,716 --> 01:06:11,718
And when I saw that delight
spread across his face,
1365
01:06:11,802 --> 01:06:14,972
I knew that that scene
would be enough.
1366
01:06:15,097 --> 01:06:19,268
I still second guess myself sometimes.
And sometimes I wonder,
1367
01:06:19,393 --> 01:06:20,769
"Should John Hunt have arrested Forrest?
1368
01:06:20,894 --> 01:06:22,187
Should he have chased him?
1369
01:06:22,479 --> 01:06:24,439
Or should there have been more to it?"
1370
01:06:24,565 --> 01:06:28,777
And I just have to trust that,
my instincts on the day were right.
1371
01:06:28,902 --> 01:06:32,197
That was the choice I made
that felt right on the day.
1372
01:06:32,322 --> 01:06:35,367
And it's important to just trust
those gut instincts sometimes
1373
01:06:35,617 --> 01:06:40,122
and to not spend too much time
thinking about it after the fact.
1374
01:06:40,247 --> 01:06:42,875
Because 99 percent of the time,
1375
01:06:43,041 --> 01:06:44,626
the choices you make on the day
are the right ones.
1376
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:47,796
I really, truly believe that.
1377
01:06:47,921 --> 01:06:51,049
When you're making a movie,
you spend so much time preparing.
1378
01:06:51,133 --> 01:06:53,552
You spend so much time writing the script
and thinking about the characters
1379
01:06:53,635 --> 01:06:54,803
and talking about the characters.
1380
01:06:54,928 --> 01:06:59,141
And then you get to the set, and you
don't have that much time to think.
1381
01:06:59,474 --> 01:07:02,686
You really don't.
And so you're operating on a gut level.
1382
01:07:02,936 --> 01:07:05,647
And if something feels right
while you're shooting it,
1383
01:07:06,231 --> 01:07:08,442
99 percent of the time it is right.
1384
01:07:08,984 --> 01:07:11,778
And that one percent of the time
that it's not right,
1385
01:07:12,321 --> 01:07:14,656
is worth it for the,
all the times that it is.
1386
01:07:14,740 --> 01:07:19,328
And so, when I'm in doubt, whenever I'm
in doubt at any stage of the process,
1387
01:07:19,411 --> 01:07:21,371
when you're on set
or when you're in the edit.
1388
01:07:21,830 --> 01:07:25,584
You just trust
that whatever was guiding you
1389
01:07:25,709 --> 01:07:28,837
while you were shooting
a given scene was correct,
1390
01:07:28,962 --> 01:07:31,965
and that you somehow deep down
knew what you were doing.
1391
01:07:35,677 --> 01:07:37,679
This scene was
one of the hardest scenes to shoot.
1392
01:07:37,888 --> 01:07:39,765
And watching it now, I don't know why.
1393
01:07:40,015 --> 01:07:41,808
I mean, part of the reason
was that it was really late.
1394
01:07:41,934 --> 01:07:44,019
I think we shot this at like,
two in the morning or...
1395
01:07:44,144 --> 01:07:46,021
I know that day we didn't wrap
until four in the morning.
1396
01:07:46,146 --> 01:07:48,065
So it was probably around
2:00 AM that we shot this.
1397
01:07:48,357 --> 01:07:50,984
So I'm sure we were all tired.
1398
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:54,696
But there was a lot of
nervous anticipation to it,
1399
01:07:54,821 --> 01:07:56,531
maybe because it was such a climactic
moment for the characters
1400
01:07:56,615 --> 01:07:58,200
and their relationship,
and there was so much running through
1401
01:07:58,408 --> 01:08:01,453
Sissy's mind as a character,
having just seen the gun.
1402
01:08:01,703 --> 01:08:06,541
And realized that in some shape,
way or form this guy
1403
01:08:06,667 --> 01:08:08,252
that she's fallen
for has been lying to her.
1404
01:08:08,377 --> 01:08:13,173
And yet she still has
so much affection for him.
1405
01:08:13,257 --> 01:08:15,467
And so we were just talking
about it a lot with both actors.
1406
01:08:15,592 --> 01:08:17,052
We spent a lot of time
talking about the scene.
1407
01:08:17,177 --> 01:08:18,720
We spent a lot of time setting it up.
1408
01:08:18,929 --> 01:08:20,347
We didn't really spend
a lot of time rehearsing it.
1409
01:08:20,514 --> 01:08:22,432
'Cause we wanted to let it be
fresh in the moment.
1410
01:08:22,557 --> 01:08:25,310
But we just spent a lot of time
dilly-dallying, getting to it.
1411
01:08:25,435 --> 01:08:28,814
And then we finally shot it,
and when Sissy opens that door
1412
01:08:28,897 --> 01:08:32,401
and Bob walks up there
and takes his hat off
1413
01:08:32,526 --> 01:08:34,361
and hits that gold
and beautiful sodium light
1414
01:08:34,486 --> 01:08:36,571
that Joe Anderson
has set up just for him.
1415
01:08:37,698 --> 01:08:39,032
The years melted away.
1416
01:08:39,324 --> 01:08:43,412
It felt like we were watching these
two actors in their twenties again.
1417
01:08:43,537 --> 01:08:47,416
Again, I wanted them
to kind of function as teenagers.
1418
01:08:47,499 --> 01:08:48,625
Forrest Tucker went to prison
when he was thirteen.
1419
01:08:48,834 --> 01:08:52,587
And so he was in many ways
a very arrested adolescent.
1420
01:08:52,713 --> 01:08:54,965
And something about
his adolescent spirit
1421
01:08:55,090 --> 01:08:56,925
brings out the sixteen-year-old girl
in Sissy.
1422
01:08:57,092 --> 01:09:03,056
And she blushes, blushes like
a teenager when she's around him.
1423
01:09:03,181 --> 01:09:04,891
And that really just
came through in that moment.
1424
01:09:05,017 --> 01:09:07,936
You just watch them both just...
1425
01:09:08,061 --> 01:09:09,396
become teenagers again.
1426
01:09:09,521 --> 01:09:10,981
You just see those years melt away.
1427
01:09:11,106 --> 01:09:12,774
And it was breathtaking on set.
1428
01:09:12,899 --> 01:09:15,819
Everyone around the monitor
just sort of gasped.
1429
01:09:15,944 --> 01:09:17,237
And then you wonder,
1430
01:09:17,404 --> 01:09:19,239
"Why were we so worried about this scene?
1431
01:09:19,740 --> 01:09:22,534
Why was there so much stress about it?"
1432
01:09:22,784 --> 01:09:24,911
All we had to do was just shoot it,
and it would work out.
1433
01:09:25,537 --> 01:09:27,205
When you work with really good actors,
1434
01:09:27,331 --> 01:09:31,084
and you have people like
Robert Redford and Sissy Spacek.
1435
01:09:31,293 --> 01:09:33,503
So often, you stress about
how you're gonna shoot it,
1436
01:09:33,670 --> 01:09:36,506
and you just think,
"How can we make this scene work?"
1437
01:09:36,715 --> 01:09:39,384
But then you just have to
remind yourself,
1438
01:09:39,509 --> 01:09:41,386
you're working with Robert Redford
and Sissy Spacek.
1439
01:09:41,595 --> 01:09:43,347
They know how to act in a movie.
1440
01:09:43,472 --> 01:09:46,099
All you have to do
is get the camera set up
1441
01:09:46,224 --> 01:09:48,602
and have them step in front of it.
1442
01:09:48,685 --> 01:09:52,939
And whatever's happening,
you know it's gonna be magical.
1443
01:09:53,065 --> 01:09:56,109
This whole sequence in the film
is based in fact.
1444
01:09:56,318 --> 01:10:01,239
This is all rooted in the,
the David Grann, New Yorker article.
1445
01:10:01,365 --> 01:10:04,534
Forrest Tucker came home one day.
1446
01:10:04,785 --> 01:10:09,998
And his accomplice, Teddy Green,
was standing there on his front porch.
1447
01:10:10,123 --> 01:10:11,917
And before they could
exchange a single word,
1448
01:10:12,042 --> 01:10:14,461
the police descended upon them.
1449
01:10:14,544 --> 01:10:16,296
And it was unclear whether...
1450
01:10:16,505 --> 01:10:18,298
whether or not Teddy knew
that was gonna happen.
1451
01:10:18,465 --> 01:10:21,593
Whether he was setting Forrest up,
whether he'd given him up.
1452
01:10:21,843 --> 01:10:26,264
Or whether the police had, in fact,
followed Teddy to Forrest's house
1453
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:29,810
and used him to ensnare him.
1454
01:10:29,935 --> 01:10:31,770
And I'm sure I could have found
the answers to that question.
1455
01:10:31,937 --> 01:10:33,313
But I didn't really
do too much deep digging.
1456
01:10:33,438 --> 01:10:34,731
I liked the ambiguity of it.
1457
01:10:34,856 --> 01:10:36,733
And there's something
so beautiful about that,
1458
01:10:37,150 --> 01:10:40,028
that silent moment.
Something beautiful and tragic.
1459
01:10:40,654 --> 01:10:43,448
And this car chase is all,
this is all based in reality too.
1460
01:10:43,573 --> 01:10:45,617
Forrest did get shot many times.
1461
01:10:45,992 --> 01:10:48,870
Here, he got shot once,
because I thought it strained credulity
1462
01:10:49,204 --> 01:10:53,959
to have him get shot as many times
as he actually did get shot.
1463
01:10:54,042 --> 01:10:58,964
And he claims that
he never actually fired his gun.
1464
01:10:59,047 --> 01:11:00,173
Although, I think at one point,
1465
01:11:00,298 --> 01:11:02,884
he said he actually fired it in the air,
just to scare the cops.
1466
01:11:02,968 --> 01:11:06,513
And they fired back on him.
1467
01:11:06,596 --> 01:11:08,306
And he was hit many times,
and yet still managed to escape
1468
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:14,396
and to hijack a young woman
who was out driving with her son.
1469
01:11:14,938 --> 01:11:18,692
So all of this is
completely based in fact.
1470
01:11:18,859 --> 01:11:20,694
As much as the movie is
1471
01:11:20,819 --> 01:11:24,781
a mythologized version
of the Forrest Tucker tale,
1472
01:11:24,990 --> 01:11:28,118
there are many scenes
and instances and incidents
1473
01:11:28,243 --> 01:11:30,829
that are directly tied to things
that really happened in his life.
1474
01:11:30,954 --> 01:11:34,833
And this is one that is
directly tied to both his life
1475
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,711
and to the New Yorker article.
1476
01:11:37,836 --> 01:11:40,755
The actress in this scene is Augustine
Frizzell who happens to be my wife.
1477
01:11:40,964 --> 01:11:45,594
And she has been hijacked by
an outlaw in my movies before.
1478
01:11:45,802 --> 01:11:47,762
In Ain't Them Bodies Saints,
Casey Affleck,
1479
01:11:48,472 --> 01:11:51,933
hijacks her and steals her car
in a scene very similar to this one.
1480
01:11:52,267 --> 01:11:54,019
So when I read that scene
in the New Yorker article,
1481
01:11:54,144 --> 01:11:58,398
I was like, "Can I get away with this?
I mean, I've already done this scene."
1482
01:11:58,482 --> 01:12:00,775
But then I realized the best way
to get away with it was to just...
1483
01:12:01,067 --> 01:12:03,278
Was to recreate it
and have the same character.
1484
01:12:03,653 --> 01:12:05,780
And at one point in the script,
I had her say,
1485
01:12:05,906 --> 01:12:07,282
"This keeps happening to me,"
1486
01:12:07,532 --> 01:12:10,410
as an allusion to the fact that
she is indeed the same character.
1487
01:12:10,869 --> 01:12:13,413
Although, we had to change her name.
You never hear her name in this movie
1488
01:12:13,538 --> 01:12:16,041
or in Ain't Them Bodies Saints.
But in Ain't Them Bodies Saints
1489
01:12:16,208 --> 01:12:21,671
her name was actually Sissy
as a allusion to Miss Spacek.
1490
01:12:21,963 --> 01:12:23,882
And I felt that I couldn't keep that name.
1491
01:12:23,965 --> 01:12:26,718
So we changed her name to Sandi.
1492
01:12:27,427 --> 01:12:30,138
At this point, we leave reality behind.
1493
01:12:31,806 --> 01:12:35,227
Bob, or Forrest Tucker, rather...
1494
01:12:35,310 --> 01:12:37,229
They're inseparable
in my mind at this point.
1495
01:12:37,312 --> 01:12:40,899
But the real Forrest Tucker left
that young woman and her son behind.
1496
01:12:41,149 --> 01:12:44,152
As we see in the film,
he left them in front of a store,
1497
01:12:44,361 --> 01:12:47,072
took their car and was
eventually apprehended by the cops.
1498
01:12:47,239 --> 01:12:50,200
I think he actually crashed into a tree,
if I remember correctly.
1499
01:12:50,617 --> 01:12:52,369
He was bleeding out,
he was losing consciousness.
1500
01:12:52,661 --> 01:12:56,373
He crashed into a tree, and at one point
in the script, that's what happened.
1501
01:12:56,498 --> 01:12:59,960
But I felt that the fact
that he was in such a low state.
1502
01:13:00,085 --> 01:13:01,962
That he was physically...
1503
01:13:02,087 --> 01:13:03,296
He was bleeding. He was dying.
1504
01:13:03,547 --> 01:13:06,925
He was straddling life and death.
1505
01:13:07,050 --> 01:13:11,429
Gave us permission to sort of enter
this more symbolic realm.
1506
01:13:11,555 --> 01:13:15,976
And in doing so,
to really lean in to the fact
1507
01:13:16,142 --> 01:13:19,271
that it is Robert Redford
playing Forrest Tucker.
1508
01:13:19,646 --> 01:13:24,067
And that there is a history there
that we need to acknowledge.
1509
01:13:24,526 --> 01:13:28,738
So seeing Bob on a horse at sunset,
looking at all these cop cars
1510
01:13:28,947 --> 01:13:31,992
streaming in with
a poncho over his shoulder.
1511
01:13:32,534 --> 01:13:36,371
It really... it really
was designed to remind us
1512
01:13:36,955 --> 01:13:42,877
of who Robert Redford is as an actor,
what he has meant to us as a movie star.
1513
01:13:43,378 --> 01:13:45,505
And what his legacy
is on the silver screen.
1514
01:13:46,047 --> 01:13:47,882
And that's something I never wanted
to talk to Bob about.
1515
01:13:48,008 --> 01:13:49,634
I think he knew that reading the script.
1516
01:13:49,759 --> 01:13:53,888
And he certainly understood and wanted
this to be a spiritual successor
1517
01:13:54,014 --> 01:13:57,142
to the type of roles
that he made his name with.
1518
01:13:57,309 --> 01:13:58,935
To really follow in the...
1519
01:13:59,644 --> 01:14:02,314
in the spirit of Butch Cassidy
and the Sundance Kid.
1520
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:07,027
And The Electric Horseman,
and Jeremiah Johnson, and The Sting.
1521
01:14:07,652 --> 01:14:11,489
But we never talked about this movie
being meta in any sort of way.
1522
01:14:11,656 --> 01:14:13,950
And yet, I knew it would be.
There's no way to escape it.
1523
01:14:14,034 --> 01:14:16,411
When you have a movie star
who's been around
1524
01:14:16,536 --> 01:14:18,705
for as long as
Robert Redford's been around.
1525
01:14:19,664 --> 01:14:21,541
When you have a movie star
who's been around for that long...
1526
01:14:22,375 --> 01:14:23,960
you can try to run away from it.
1527
01:14:24,085 --> 01:14:26,504
But it's a fool's errand.
It's better just to lean into it.
1528
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:29,174
I did that a little bit with Keith
Carradine in Ain't Them Bodies Saints.
1529
01:14:29,424 --> 01:14:30,592
I felt that...
1530
01:14:31,551 --> 01:14:33,553
it was better to just
lean in to who he was,
1531
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,640
to who he was as an actor
and what we expect from him.
1532
01:14:37,265 --> 01:14:40,560
And then this was the same thing.
But one hundredfold.
1533
01:14:42,937 --> 01:14:44,314
When you hire
Casey Affleck in a movie,
1534
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,609
you can always count on him
to make your script better.
1535
01:14:48,443 --> 01:14:52,238
I write dialogue fairly well.
I like writing it.
1536
01:14:52,572 --> 01:14:54,532
I feel like I do
a pretty good job of it,
1537
01:14:55,325 --> 01:14:57,577
of giving these
characters things to say.
1538
01:14:58,161 --> 01:15:00,830
But I always know that Casey
will make it even better.
1539
01:15:01,164 --> 01:15:04,459
And this final line he had, I can't
remember what it was in the script.
1540
01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:08,004
I'm sure it was something
clunky and not as graceful.
1541
01:15:08,129 --> 01:15:09,923
It was the same intent, but it had...
1542
01:15:10,173 --> 01:15:12,467
It almost certainly had
far too many words.
1543
01:15:13,426 --> 01:15:16,596
And he had read the script, certainly.
1544
01:15:16,721 --> 01:15:18,098
And he knew what the dialogue was.
1545
01:15:18,181 --> 01:15:22,185
But when we rolled cameras,
he just said, "I'm not."
1546
01:15:22,894 --> 01:15:24,562
And I thank him for that.
1547
01:15:28,066 --> 01:15:31,444
This actress on this television right here
1548
01:15:31,569 --> 01:15:35,365
is an actress from Forth Worth, Texas.
1549
01:15:35,865 --> 01:15:40,578
And she was in A Ghost Story,
playing the doctor
1550
01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:44,499
who takes Rooney to the morgue.
And again, I just really liked her.
1551
01:15:44,624 --> 01:15:47,711
And I always try to just, these actors
who I meet, who have these small parts,
1552
01:15:47,836 --> 01:15:50,088
I always just try to keep bringing them
along from one movie to the next.
1553
01:15:50,213 --> 01:15:52,424
'Cause I just really, really like them.
1554
01:15:53,299 --> 01:15:58,096
This scene here is
notable for... many things.
1555
01:15:58,263 --> 01:16:00,557
It's the second meeting between
John Hunt and Forrest Tucker.
1556
01:16:00,682 --> 01:16:03,518
It's a callback to
that hundred dollar bill
1557
01:16:03,643 --> 01:16:06,271
that Forrest Tucker left
for John Hunt earlier in the film.
1558
01:16:06,521 --> 01:16:08,106
And it also is...
1559
01:16:08,857 --> 01:16:12,902
It contains an overt nod
to The Sting, right here.
1560
01:16:13,486 --> 01:16:15,029
And that was Casey's idea.
1561
01:16:15,530 --> 01:16:17,574
I knew he had been wanting
to do that in the film.
1562
01:16:17,699 --> 01:16:19,033
He was looking for a place to do it.
1563
01:16:19,743 --> 01:16:22,495
And this was the,
this was the perfect scene for it.
1564
01:16:22,871 --> 01:16:24,330
And I missed it
when we were shooting it,
1565
01:16:24,539 --> 01:16:26,124
because I was looking at Bob
and not Casey.
1566
01:16:26,750 --> 01:16:30,253
And so afterwards, Casey came up
to me and he was very excited.
1567
01:16:30,336 --> 01:16:32,046
And he was like,
"Did you see it? Did it work?"
1568
01:16:32,213 --> 01:16:34,257
And I had no idea
what he was talking about.
1569
01:16:35,175 --> 01:16:37,010
Bob though, I think, Bob did catch it.
1570
01:16:37,177 --> 01:16:39,429
And he said afterwards
that he was very moved by it.
1571
01:16:40,638 --> 01:16:43,892
This shot of Bob sitting up in the prison
1572
01:16:44,017 --> 01:16:45,351
was originally for a different sequence
1573
01:16:45,435 --> 01:16:48,062
in the movie that we ultimately scrapped.
1574
01:16:48,730 --> 01:16:50,565
Or parts of it are in the film.
It's him in San Quentin.
1575
01:16:50,690 --> 01:16:55,069
But this whole San Quentin sequence
turned out to be far less...
1576
01:16:55,195 --> 01:16:57,155
It wasn't as necessary as we thought.
1577
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,200
And so we shot a lot less of it
than we had ever initially intended,
1578
01:17:00,450 --> 01:17:03,036
and included even less of it than we shot.
1579
01:17:03,286 --> 01:17:07,040
But this was one shot that I loved.
And so we repurposed it to use here.
1580
01:17:07,415 --> 01:17:11,127
Just that shot of him
just looking so broken behind bars.
1581
01:17:11,711 --> 01:17:12,921
After seeing him...
1582
01:17:14,088 --> 01:17:15,965
So, if you're ever seeing him
1583
01:17:16,049 --> 01:17:18,051
so at his best through the entire film.
1584
01:17:18,176 --> 01:17:20,428
To see him at his worst
there was really impactful.
1585
01:17:21,054 --> 01:17:24,015
And it was a shot that, I think it was,
1586
01:17:24,808 --> 01:17:27,727
in our Cincinnati leg of the shoot.
It was the last thing we shot.
1587
01:17:28,061 --> 01:17:30,688
And it was at hour
18 of a very long day,
1588
01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:33,024
in which we also shot
this scene that you're seeing here.
1589
01:17:33,733 --> 01:17:34,943
And it was a...
1590
01:17:36,361 --> 01:17:37,904
We had an idea of what it was gonna be,
1591
01:17:38,071 --> 01:17:41,157
but we didn't know that Bob was gonna
sit up into it the way he did.
1592
01:17:41,741 --> 01:17:44,661
And the camera team wasn't ready for that.
1593
01:17:44,828 --> 01:17:48,081
And the fact that they managed to, like,
pull focus in just the right way.
1594
01:17:48,248 --> 01:17:50,458
It really was one of those
magical things where...
1595
01:17:52,293 --> 01:17:53,795
You can plan as much as you want.
1596
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,047
You can plan all day long
for a shot to work a certain way.
1597
01:17:56,172 --> 01:17:57,674
But then when you get
a great actor in it,
1598
01:17:57,924 --> 01:18:00,426
they'll turn into
something new that you...
1599
01:18:01,052 --> 01:18:02,053
you could never have planned for.
1600
01:18:02,178 --> 01:18:04,472
And when you get those,
those amazing moments,
1601
01:18:04,597 --> 01:18:06,641
you just, you hold on tight to them.
1602
01:18:06,724 --> 01:18:09,394
And you don't cut them out of
the movie which is why that shot's here.
1603
01:18:10,103 --> 01:18:11,437
This scene here...
1604
01:18:12,939 --> 01:18:14,566
that list of prison breaks
1605
01:18:14,649 --> 01:18:16,568
is something that is
in the New Yorker article.
1606
01:18:17,151 --> 01:18:20,405
Forrest Tucker gave a list
of his escapes to David Grann
1607
01:18:20,822 --> 01:18:22,323
at the end of their interview.
1608
01:18:22,949 --> 01:18:25,535
And, as you see in the movie,
as you'll see in a few minutes,
1609
01:18:25,660 --> 01:18:26,953
the last spot was blank.
1610
01:18:27,078 --> 01:18:30,915
And that was such a beautiful,
a beautiful note to end the,
1611
01:18:30,999 --> 01:18:33,126
article on,
but also to include in this film.
1612
01:18:33,251 --> 01:18:35,378
And I really wanted to include that.
1613
01:18:35,545 --> 01:18:38,047
And so I gave that,
that scene to Sissy.
1614
01:18:38,590 --> 01:18:41,885
But then I also really just wanted
to see that list of escapes realized.
1615
01:18:42,093 --> 01:18:44,345
I wanted to see all of those,
those prison breaks.
1616
01:18:44,429 --> 01:18:46,848
That was such a huge part
of who Forrest Tucker was.
1617
01:18:47,307 --> 01:18:50,351
He was an amazing escape artist
in addition to being a bank robber.
1618
01:18:50,768 --> 01:18:52,478
And he really did break out
of prison all these times.
1619
01:18:52,896 --> 01:18:56,024
And we don't spend
that much time with him
1620
01:18:56,107 --> 01:18:57,275
as an escape artist in the movie.
1621
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:58,443
In fact, we never even
really hear the name,
1622
01:18:58,526 --> 01:19:00,528
Forrest Tucker,
for like an hour of the film.
1623
01:19:01,571 --> 01:19:05,867
But I wanted in the final act
of the film to really,
1624
01:19:06,326 --> 01:19:07,744
dig into who he really was.
1625
01:19:07,869 --> 01:19:11,664
And to let the breadth of his
character finally be revealed.
1626
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:15,793
And what better way to do that
than a really big, fun montage.
1627
01:19:16,336 --> 01:19:18,755
Initially, it was meant to be fun.
It was just gonna be fun.
1628
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,592
It was gonna be a lot of
clever little snippets,
1629
01:19:22,926 --> 01:19:26,179
based on so many great prison
breaks that we've seen in movies.
1630
01:19:26,387 --> 01:19:28,556
And some of Forrest Tucker's
actual prison breaks.
1631
01:19:29,057 --> 01:19:31,517
But then I decided
we needed to see Bob's face.
1632
01:19:32,226 --> 01:19:33,978
And so we used that clip there
from The Chase.
1633
01:19:34,145 --> 01:19:36,105
Which is a film he made in 1966.
1634
01:19:36,481 --> 01:19:39,984
It's a great movie, directed by
Arthur Penn, written by Horton Foote.
1635
01:19:40,610 --> 01:19:42,028
And not a lot of people have seen it.
1636
01:19:42,153 --> 01:19:44,405
It's sort of been forgotten.
But it's a really exceptional film.
1637
01:19:44,656 --> 01:19:47,116
And in the first scene,
Bob breaks out of prison.
1638
01:19:47,408 --> 01:19:49,369
I got to say, that's the real
John Hunt right there.
1639
01:19:49,911 --> 01:19:51,621
That is John Hunt himself
1640
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:53,623
who not only is an amazing
1641
01:19:54,207 --> 01:19:55,708
human being,
a wonderful detective.
1642
01:19:55,833 --> 01:19:58,127
He is also, it turns out,
a really good actor.
1643
01:19:59,295 --> 01:20:03,049
But it was really important to me
to have Bob's face in that sequence.
1644
01:20:03,174 --> 01:20:05,677
So we used that clip from The Chase.
1645
01:20:06,260 --> 01:20:11,140
And suddenly what had previously
been just a really fun sequence,
1646
01:20:11,391 --> 01:20:13,142
suddenly became very emotional.
1647
01:20:13,643 --> 01:20:16,854
To see him as he was then,
and then the cut to him as he is now.
1648
01:20:17,647 --> 01:20:18,690
It really...
1649
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:21,359
It kind of breaks the fourth wall.
1650
01:20:21,818 --> 01:20:25,989
Once again, you really think
about Robert Redford, the actor.
1651
01:20:26,406 --> 01:20:28,324
And what he means to you,
as an audience member.
1652
01:20:28,491 --> 01:20:33,037
And what he means to movies,
what he means to cinema history.
1653
01:20:33,746 --> 01:20:37,083
And I like that. I like breaking
the fourth wall in that way.
1654
01:20:37,542 --> 01:20:40,878
And really, again, just like
seeing him on the horse,
1655
01:20:41,754 --> 01:20:45,299
gave us an iconic image that was
a quintessential Robert Redford moment.
1656
01:20:46,009 --> 01:20:47,552
More so than it is
a Forrest Tucker moment.
1657
01:20:47,719 --> 01:20:51,305
I felt that acknowledging
where Bob came from
1658
01:20:51,806 --> 01:20:52,890
and where he is now was,
1659
01:20:53,433 --> 01:20:55,018
was a beautiful thing
to include in this movie.
1660
01:20:55,309 --> 01:20:57,478
And I was really glad we had
the opportunity to do that.
1661
01:20:57,937 --> 01:21:00,732
In the midst of a really fun,
rollicking prison break,
1662
01:21:00,940 --> 01:21:03,818
a really fun, rollicking
prison break sequence
1663
01:21:03,943 --> 01:21:06,738
that was just a heck
of a lot of fun to shoot.
1664
01:21:06,946 --> 01:21:09,240
We got in a van
and just drove all over Texas.
1665
01:21:10,033 --> 01:21:11,159
And by all over Texas,
1666
01:21:11,284 --> 01:21:12,827
I mean we just drove
all over Fort Worth Texas
1667
01:21:13,077 --> 01:21:14,287
which is where we shot most of it.
1668
01:21:15,663 --> 01:21:17,749
And just looked for places
that looked like prisons.
1669
01:21:17,832 --> 01:21:19,792
And just came up with
fun ideas based, again,
1670
01:21:19,876 --> 01:21:21,669
on other prison breaks from movies.
1671
01:21:21,753 --> 01:21:23,254
Obviously, there's
Escape from Alcatraz in there.
1672
01:21:23,588 --> 01:21:27,383
And there's A Man Escaped.
And so many fun, little beats.
1673
01:21:28,176 --> 01:21:31,262
Digging through
the dirt at the end was a nod
1674
01:21:31,471 --> 01:21:32,889
to the Fantastic Mr. Fox.
1675
01:21:33,014 --> 01:21:36,392
Which was actually a really
big influence on this movie.
1676
01:21:36,642 --> 01:21:38,061
Whenever I was writing the script,
1677
01:21:38,436 --> 01:21:41,147
I often had the Fantastic Mr. Fox
soundtrack playing.
1678
01:21:41,272 --> 01:21:43,149
Sometimes I would just have
the movie playing in the background.
1679
01:21:43,649 --> 01:21:46,194
And when people would ask me
what the tone was gonna be like,
1680
01:21:46,444 --> 01:21:49,655
I would just say, "Just imagine
a live action, Fantastic Mr. Fox."
1681
01:21:50,865 --> 01:21:52,700
And I can see that in the finished film.
1682
01:21:52,784 --> 01:21:55,912
I don't know how much it comes through,
but it definitely is there.
1683
01:21:58,998 --> 01:22:03,002
The movie could have easily
ended with Sissy saying,
1684
01:22:03,711 --> 01:22:04,879
"Maybe you should stay put."
1685
01:22:05,338 --> 01:22:06,672
At one point, it did end with that.
1686
01:22:06,798 --> 01:22:09,217
It really...
It was a nice way to go out.
1687
01:22:09,425 --> 01:22:11,636
It was a nice way to let Sissy
have the last word in the film.
1688
01:22:12,595 --> 01:22:18,559
But once again, I just felt
the pull of fact, so to speak.
1689
01:22:18,684 --> 01:22:22,438
This is what really happened
to Forrest Tucker. He got out of prison.
1690
01:22:23,231 --> 01:22:26,901
He... reunited with Jewel.
1691
01:22:27,652 --> 01:22:30,279
He... lived in Florida with her.
1692
01:22:30,571 --> 01:22:33,908
He enjoyed the country
club lifestyle for a while.
1693
01:22:34,450 --> 01:22:36,369
He taught trumpet lessons to children.
1694
01:22:37,203 --> 01:22:39,914
He, by all accounts, was pretty happy.
1695
01:22:39,997 --> 01:22:40,998
They were wealthy.
1696
01:22:41,082 --> 01:22:44,085
Jewel was already wealthy.
They had money.
1697
01:22:46,212 --> 01:22:49,674
And yet he couldn't
keep himself from robbing banks.
1698
01:22:50,508 --> 01:22:53,094
I think a couple months went by.
Maybe it was a couple years.
1699
01:22:53,261 --> 01:22:56,430
I can't remember exactly anymore.
But at one point,
1700
01:22:56,556 --> 01:22:59,475
he just decided he needed
to get back to doing what he loved.
1701
01:22:59,642 --> 01:23:00,560
And so...
1702
01:23:01,435 --> 01:23:03,146
He went, robbed four more banks.
1703
01:23:03,271 --> 01:23:05,940
Got caught. And spent the rest
of his life in prison.
1704
01:23:06,649 --> 01:23:09,777
And that just says so much
about the character. It really does.
1705
01:23:09,861 --> 01:23:14,824
And I felt that we really
should include that in the film.
1706
01:23:15,867 --> 01:23:18,244
And it's a sad thing.
There's not, it's not a...
1707
01:23:18,327 --> 01:23:20,371
It's not a happy ending
for Forrest Tucker.
1708
01:23:20,454 --> 01:23:25,334
The fact that he had...
this chance for a real life.
1709
01:23:25,418 --> 01:23:27,128
A real life with someone he loved.
1710
01:23:27,879 --> 01:23:30,298
And turned it down to do...
1711
01:23:32,008 --> 01:23:33,050
something else that he loved.
1712
01:23:33,176 --> 01:23:34,343
But that wasn't...
1713
01:23:35,136 --> 01:23:37,597
that was ultimately
the root of his undoing.
1714
01:23:37,847 --> 01:23:39,348
There's tragedy in that.
1715
01:23:39,432 --> 01:23:41,851
And so I didn't want
to shy away from that.
1716
01:23:42,810 --> 01:23:45,438
So this entire sequence
is very melancholic.
1717
01:23:45,730 --> 01:23:48,566
There's no music.
Almost the entire film has score.
1718
01:23:49,066 --> 01:23:52,403
Wall to wall score from Daniel Hart,
who does a wonderful job.
1719
01:23:54,113 --> 01:23:56,782
Providing that engine to the movie
that he always does for my movies.
1720
01:23:56,949 --> 01:23:59,660
But at this point, we tried putting
score in there. It just felt wrong.
1721
01:23:59,827 --> 01:24:01,287
It was counter...
1722
01:24:01,746 --> 01:24:03,956
counter-intuitive to what
the movie needed here.
1723
01:24:04,290 --> 01:24:07,335
What it needed was the tone
that that clip from Two-Lane Blacktop
1724
01:24:07,418 --> 01:24:08,502
that we just saw, had.
1725
01:24:08,628 --> 01:24:12,882
That elegiac tone, that idea
that something is within your grasp,
1726
01:24:13,007 --> 01:24:14,342
and yet it's slipping away.
1727
01:24:17,887 --> 01:24:19,472
So much of that is
in this shot right here,
1728
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,557
which who knows what he's looking at.
1729
01:24:21,641 --> 01:24:25,728
Probably nothing.
But just... you just see that...
1730
01:24:26,938 --> 01:24:28,481
that sense of...
1731
01:24:31,317 --> 01:24:33,486
things not quite adding up
in his face there.
1732
01:24:33,611 --> 01:24:36,405
He's not where he needs to be,
even though he's where he should be.
1733
01:24:38,241 --> 01:24:40,243
When they go outside of the movie
theater there, it was really fun
1734
01:24:40,368 --> 01:24:42,828
to try to pick out the movies
that were on the marquee.
1735
01:24:42,995 --> 01:24:45,665
I mean, it was really hard
to kind of narrow it down.
1736
01:24:45,790 --> 01:24:47,625
So the movies that were showing
at that movie theater
1737
01:24:48,167 --> 01:24:51,045
were Alien 3, which is amazing.
1738
01:24:51,170 --> 01:24:52,755
If you haven't seen
the director's cut of Alien 3,
1739
01:24:52,964 --> 01:24:54,924
I think it's
a legitimately brilliant film.
1740
01:24:55,341 --> 01:24:57,927
Miller's Crossing,
another legitimately brilliant film.
1741
01:24:58,552 --> 01:25:01,389
And then a made-up poster for The Names,
which is a future film
1742
01:25:01,639 --> 01:25:04,392
from Alex Ross Perry
based on the Don DeLillo novel.
1743
01:25:04,892 --> 01:25:06,894
And Alex Ross Perry is
one of my favorite filmmakers.
1744
01:25:07,144 --> 01:25:08,229
I'm lucky enough to call him a friend,
1745
01:25:08,396 --> 01:25:10,731
and I wanted to just have
a little nod to him there.
1746
01:25:11,023 --> 01:25:13,651
I'm giving all the credit to Scott Kuzio,
our production designer,
1747
01:25:13,776 --> 01:25:16,612
who also is Alex's production designer,
for putting that there.
1748
01:25:16,821 --> 01:25:18,781
But I was happy to...
1749
01:25:18,864 --> 01:25:20,825
to tip my hat to Alex.
1750
01:25:20,992 --> 01:25:23,828
He's a wonderful, wonderful
filmmaker and a wonderful friend.
1751
01:25:25,037 --> 01:25:28,916
This scene has the one
fake mustache in the movie
1752
01:25:29,166 --> 01:25:30,835
that is not supposed to be fake.
1753
01:25:31,419 --> 01:25:32,837
We wanted Casey
to look different.
1754
01:25:32,962 --> 01:25:37,216
It's a number of years later.
And so we had him cut his hair.
1755
01:25:37,550 --> 01:25:41,137
This is the last thing we shot with him.
We cut his hair and shaved.
1756
01:25:41,679 --> 01:25:44,015
And when Casey shaves,
he looks like he's 20.
1757
01:25:44,557 --> 01:25:47,351
It was an error on our part
to have him do that.
1758
01:25:48,352 --> 01:25:51,022
And it just felt like
he had traveled back in time.
1759
01:25:51,522 --> 01:25:53,607
And John Hunt had regressed in years.
1760
01:25:54,108 --> 01:25:57,862
And so we quickly
scrounged up a fake mustache.
1761
01:25:58,779 --> 01:26:01,532
And slapped it on.
And I don't like it.
1762
01:26:01,782 --> 01:26:03,284
I don't like fake mustaches in movies.
1763
01:26:04,201 --> 01:26:05,369
But we had to.
1764
01:26:05,661 --> 01:26:07,997
And it would've have
been really weird if he hadn't.
1765
01:26:08,247 --> 01:26:09,373
So hopefully, you didn't notice.
1766
01:26:09,498 --> 01:26:11,625
Hopefully the fact that I just
acknowledged it doesn't
1767
01:26:11,792 --> 01:26:14,045
depreciate too much
from the end of the film.
1768
01:26:15,254 --> 01:26:16,714
And now we're at the end of the film.
1769
01:26:17,214 --> 01:26:20,676
This was something that
was always gonna be the last shot.
1770
01:26:22,511 --> 01:26:24,388
It's a very unremarkable moment.
1771
01:26:24,513 --> 01:26:27,099
And yet it's very remarkable
for its sheer un-remarkability.
1772
01:26:27,266 --> 01:26:29,977
I just wanted him to walk away.
There's nothing too dynamic about it.
1773
01:26:30,227 --> 01:26:32,688
And just walk into that bank
and disappear.
1774
01:26:33,647 --> 01:26:36,275
And now that Bob is talking
about retiring, you think,
1775
01:26:36,734 --> 01:26:41,155
this might be the last shot
he ever fills in a film.
1776
01:26:41,322 --> 01:26:43,407
This might be the last shot
of Robert Redford in a movie.
1777
01:26:43,741 --> 01:26:45,242
Should we have made more
of a big deal out of it?
1778
01:26:45,451 --> 01:26:46,452
The answer is, no.
1779
01:26:47,078 --> 01:26:49,872
He had talked about
retiring before we started shooting.
1780
01:26:50,081 --> 01:26:53,000
And it was one of those things I just
did not ever let myself think about,
1781
01:26:53,167 --> 01:26:55,294
because it would have been
too much pressure.
1782
01:26:55,503 --> 01:26:58,255
We would have made that shot fancier.
We would have made it more climactic,
1783
01:26:58,464 --> 01:27:02,968
rather than just let it just be a simple
grace note to a very simple story.
1784
01:27:03,552 --> 01:27:06,806
And I didn't want the movie to be
burdened with the weight of finality.
1785
01:27:07,473 --> 01:27:09,809
Even though it is very much
about finality in so many ways.
1786
01:27:10,476 --> 01:27:12,853
I really wanted it to be light-hearted.
I wanted it to be fun.
1787
01:27:13,145 --> 01:27:16,357
And I didn't want to constantly be aware.
1788
01:27:16,899 --> 01:27:20,027
And constantly reminding the audience
that this is the last time
1789
01:27:20,528 --> 01:27:25,032
we might see one of our great,
favorite, long-standing,
1790
01:27:25,491 --> 01:27:29,870
legendary movie stars appear onscreen.
That was a long list of adjectives.
1791
01:27:29,954 --> 01:27:31,372
Maybe we should cut
some of those adjectives out.
1792
01:27:31,747 --> 01:27:33,374
Nonetheless he deserves
every single one of them.
1793
01:27:34,792 --> 01:27:37,169
It was a real joy to work
with him on this film.
1794
01:27:37,420 --> 01:27:40,256
We had worked together on Pete's Dragon.
1795
01:27:40,965 --> 01:27:44,051
Which came about after
we'd started working on this one.
1796
01:27:44,176 --> 01:27:45,886
So he was in Pete's Dragon, because...
1797
01:27:46,637 --> 01:27:48,514
we had already been developing
The Old Man & the Gun.
1798
01:27:48,806 --> 01:27:52,768
And he was gracious enough
to come along for that particular ride.
1799
01:27:52,977 --> 01:27:56,188
And I was so glad that we had
the chance to get to know each other.
1800
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:59,733
To work in that way in New Zealand.
1801
01:27:59,817 --> 01:28:02,194
For me to direct him,
to have the opportunity to direct him
1802
01:28:02,611 --> 01:28:04,989
before we dove headfirst
into this movie was a real luxury.
1803
01:28:05,156 --> 01:28:06,073
Because I got to know him.
1804
01:28:06,365 --> 01:28:08,826
I got to know him as a friend,
as a collaborator.
1805
01:28:09,410 --> 01:28:11,328
And that's one of the,
the great joys in my life,
1806
01:28:11,579 --> 01:28:13,289
that I've had the chance
to work with him twice now.
1807
01:28:13,956 --> 01:28:16,000
And to know that he trusts me.
1808
01:28:16,250 --> 01:28:19,211
And that he is...
1809
01:28:19,336 --> 01:28:24,383
To know that he's happy
with this movie was...
1810
01:28:24,467 --> 01:28:27,219
I make movies for audiences.
I always want the audience to be happy,
1811
01:28:27,428 --> 01:28:31,432
to come out of the movie having
had a satisfactory experience.
1812
01:28:31,557 --> 01:28:33,017
But...
1813
01:28:33,100 --> 01:28:36,312
knowing that Bob liked this movie,
that he was happy with it.
1814
01:28:36,437 --> 01:28:38,522
When he called me
to let me know that he loved it
1815
01:28:38,731 --> 01:28:41,442
and he didn't want me
to change a frame.
1816
01:28:41,525 --> 01:28:43,360
It wasn't gonna get any better than that.
1817
01:28:43,444 --> 01:28:44,528
Everything else was just gravy.
1818
01:28:44,737 --> 01:28:47,990
So I, in many ways,
made this movie for him.
1819
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,493
I made this movie, because I love him.
1820
01:28:50,826 --> 01:28:54,622
And I'm so thankful that
he gave me the opportunity to...
1821
01:28:54,747 --> 01:28:55,706
To make it with him.
1822
01:28:55,998 --> 01:28:58,751
And you don't get
those opportunities too often in life,
1823
01:28:59,001 --> 01:29:02,630
and I'm glad I had this one.
1824
01:29:02,755 --> 01:29:05,633
I love watching credits.
Naturally that would be
1825
01:29:05,841 --> 01:29:07,676
where you would end a commentary track
with something like that.
1826
01:29:07,927 --> 01:29:11,472
But I just love sitting here and just...
1827
01:29:11,597 --> 01:29:14,308
looking at all the people
that helped make this movie.
1828
01:29:14,433 --> 01:29:16,310
They're all friends of mine.
They're all collaborators.
1829
01:29:16,519 --> 01:29:21,023
I always try to bring as many of
my movie family with me
1830
01:29:21,232 --> 01:29:22,608
from one film to the next as I can.
1831
01:29:22,858 --> 01:29:24,735
And you always meet new people
and fall in love with them
1832
01:29:24,985 --> 01:29:28,656
and just want them to be there
on your next film.
1833
01:29:28,781 --> 01:29:31,116
And it's just a...
It's like a traveling circus.
1834
01:29:31,534 --> 01:29:33,744
And sometimes people
who are there, sometimes the...
1835
01:29:34,119 --> 01:29:35,621
The names and faces sometimes change,
1836
01:29:35,746 --> 01:29:38,666
but you always try to create that,
that familial environment.
1837
01:29:38,791 --> 01:29:40,417
So for me, sitting here
watching the credits,
1838
01:29:40,751 --> 01:29:41,752
I could just talk.
1839
01:29:42,002 --> 01:29:43,629
I could tell you stories about
every one of these people.
1840
01:29:43,754 --> 01:29:45,172
'Cause they're all just
such wonderful people.
1841
01:29:45,339 --> 01:29:47,967
And we wouldn't have been able
to make the movie without them.
1842
01:29:48,551 --> 01:29:50,594
I don't like to have a sense
of hierarchy on my sets.
1843
01:29:50,719 --> 01:29:54,306
I don't want there to be
that sense that any one person's job
1844
01:29:54,431 --> 01:29:56,016
is more or less important
than anyone else.
1845
01:29:56,267 --> 01:29:58,686
And so, anyone can
come look at the monitor.
1846
01:29:58,769 --> 01:29:59,853
Anyone can come talk to me.
1847
01:30:00,020 --> 01:30:02,439
Anyone can talk to the actors,
unless the actors are in a scene,
1848
01:30:02,565 --> 01:30:04,316
in which case it's important
that they have their space.
1849
01:30:04,608 --> 01:30:08,195
We really try to have
that sense of community on our sets.
1850
01:30:08,487 --> 01:30:09,738
And we try to have fun.
1851
01:30:10,197 --> 01:30:14,368
And as a result, there's a great deal
of affection on our sets for everyone.
1852
01:30:14,702 --> 01:30:17,162
We really try to treat everyone...
1853
01:30:17,705 --> 01:30:20,666
like family.
1854
01:30:20,749 --> 01:30:21,709
And as a result,
1855
01:30:21,834 --> 01:30:23,794
I wind up working with a lot of people
over and over again,
1856
01:30:23,919 --> 01:30:27,548
'cause I think our sets are a lot of fun.
1857
01:30:27,631 --> 01:30:31,302
And it's... I try to create
environment that's worth coming back to.
1858
01:30:31,385 --> 01:30:35,556
So, I just love... being reminded of,
1859
01:30:35,889 --> 01:30:37,975
of all my friends
in Cincinnati and Fort Worth
1860
01:30:38,183 --> 01:30:39,852
and everyone that helped
make this movie.
1861
01:30:40,102 --> 01:30:42,855
And I'm not gonna go through here and
give shout outs to every single person,
1862
01:30:43,147 --> 01:30:46,692
because... that would...
The credits aren't long enough.
1863
01:30:46,900 --> 01:30:49,570
But it is great to just be reminded of
1864
01:30:50,154 --> 01:30:54,450
all the folks who were
so vital to making this film.
1865
01:30:54,575 --> 01:30:56,410
One of the great things
about this credit sequence
1866
01:30:56,702 --> 01:30:59,288
is that it has a song from
Bonnie 'Prince' Billy in it,
1867
01:30:59,496 --> 01:31:02,291
Will Oldham,
who is a wonderful musician.
1868
01:31:02,625 --> 01:31:05,294
And I have been lucky enough
to collaborate with him a few times.
1869
01:31:05,502 --> 01:31:10,132
He was in my short film, Pioneer.
And then he did music for Pete's Dragon.
1870
01:31:10,215 --> 01:31:13,969
He wrote "The Dragon Song" that plays
over the beginning of the film
1871
01:31:14,094 --> 01:31:17,431
and then again at the end credits.
And then he was in A Ghost Story.
1872
01:31:17,723 --> 01:31:20,184
He has that monologue that,
that kind of occurs
1873
01:31:20,267 --> 01:31:25,397
at the third act of the film.
And he is one of my favorite musicians.
1874
01:31:25,731 --> 01:31:28,233
And I...
1875
01:31:28,317 --> 01:31:30,235
I just felt like I wanted
to have him be part of this film.
1876
01:31:30,361 --> 01:31:31,695
He came to visit set at one point.
1877
01:31:31,862 --> 01:31:33,947
And I tried to convince him
to be in the movie.
1878
01:31:34,114 --> 01:31:38,118
But he's... He's very...
1879
01:31:38,243 --> 01:31:39,953
He knows which parts are right for him.
1880
01:31:40,079 --> 01:31:44,333
So, I was happy that we were able
to get a song of his in this film.
1881
01:31:44,458 --> 01:31:46,293
I'm sure there's a lot more
I could talk about.
1882
01:31:46,377 --> 01:31:47,753
The movie's opening this weekend,
1883
01:31:47,878 --> 01:31:50,673
and I'm very curious. It's been great.
1884
01:31:50,923 --> 01:31:53,592
We premiered it
a couple weeks ago at Telluride.
1885
01:31:53,676 --> 01:31:55,010
And then we showed it at Toronto.
1886
01:31:55,219 --> 01:31:57,513
And then we did
a couple screenings in New York.
1887
01:31:57,680 --> 01:31:59,390
And now here we are,
and it opened last night.
1888
01:31:59,473 --> 01:32:02,685
And I did some Q&A's and to get to go...
1889
01:32:02,810 --> 01:32:04,687
Showing it to an audience
is always terrifying to me.
1890
01:32:04,937 --> 01:32:07,898
I lose all my confidence
before we show a film to an audience.
1891
01:32:08,107 --> 01:32:11,026
But then the audience
is always there to catch me.
1892
01:32:11,318 --> 01:32:15,072
And so it's been really nice
over the past few weeks to...
1893
01:32:15,197 --> 01:32:16,990
To just unveil this film and to
1894
01:32:17,157 --> 01:32:21,704
set it out on its own two feet
and let audiences have fun with it.
1895
01:32:21,829 --> 01:32:25,457
We really...
Most of my films are relatively heavy.
1896
01:32:25,582 --> 01:32:28,085
Including Pete's Dragon,
which is just a really sad movie
1897
01:32:28,377 --> 01:32:30,170
when you get down to it.
1898
01:32:30,254 --> 01:32:32,214
But with this one,
I really just wanted to make a movie
1899
01:32:32,339 --> 01:32:36,176
that audiences would go see
and leave with a smile on their face.
1900
01:32:36,301 --> 01:32:40,013
We wanted to have fun making it.
We wanted it to be fun to watch.
1901
01:32:40,097 --> 01:32:42,975
And I really just wanted people to...
When people ask me,
1902
01:32:43,100 --> 01:32:45,978
"What do you want audiences
to take away from this film?"
1903
01:32:46,061 --> 01:32:46,937
And I get asked that a lot.
1904
01:32:47,062 --> 01:32:50,149
I'm getting asked that a lot right now
as we do press for the movie.
1905
01:32:50,274 --> 01:32:53,944
And, for once, the answer is just,
I just want people to smile.
1906
01:32:54,069 --> 01:32:56,488
And sometimes, that's all you need.