1
00:01:42,599 --> 00:01:47,298
In October, my brother and I left Ohio.
We were driving to California.

2
00:01:48,238 --> 00:01:50,638
We got into Dallas on a Thursday night.

3
00:01:51,108 --> 00:01:55,442
Friday morning, while I'm eating eggs
and drinking coffee, I get a good job.

4
00:01:57,414 --> 00:02:00,042
All these people
are supposedly out of work.

5
00:02:00,884 --> 00:02:03,648
I'm not in town a half a day,
and I've got a job.

6
00:02:04,188 --> 00:02:07,646
Everything clicked.
It's as if I was meant to be here.

7
00:02:13,964 --> 00:02:17,730
I'd run away from home a couple
of times. Once or twice. I don't know.

8
00:02:19,670 --> 00:02:23,470
And this all started,
David is running away from home.

9
00:02:23,674 --> 00:02:27,474
And he takes.... I took
a pistol of my dad's and a shotgun.

10
00:02:28,545 --> 00:02:30,137
Took a neighbor's car.

11
00:02:30,481 --> 00:02:33,382
I had broken into their house
and got the keys to it.

12
00:02:33,450 --> 00:02:36,180
I forget exactly what it was.

13
00:02:41,892 --> 00:02:43,621
Ended up coming to Dallas.

14
00:02:52,002 --> 00:02:54,197
I went to work and no one showed up.

15
00:02:54,738 --> 00:02:58,071
Being a weekend, sometimes
they worked, sometimes they didn't.

16
00:02:58,876 --> 00:03:01,674
On the way home, I ran out of gas.

17
00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:04,780
And as I was walking down the street
with the gas can...

18
00:03:06,617 --> 00:03:09,245
a person, at that time, pulled over.

19
00:03:10,454 --> 00:03:12,285
I guess since I had the gas can...

20
00:03:12,356 --> 00:03:16,554
he figured I was out of gas.
I wasn't 100 yards from the car.

21
00:03:17,094 --> 00:03:20,120
And being Thanksgiving weekend,
there was no gas stations open.

22
00:03:20,197 --> 00:03:22,392
He stopped and asked me
if I needed any help.

23
00:03:25,669 --> 00:03:28,536
I'm driving down some street
somewhere in Dallas.

24
00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:31,164
I had just turned 16.

25
00:03:33,410 --> 00:03:36,538
And there was a guy over there,
I think he'd run out of gas...

26
00:03:36,613 --> 00:03:40,481
I took him to get some gas.
This was Randall Adams.

27
00:03:45,355 --> 00:03:49,348
Ended up following him where
him and his brother were staying.

28
00:03:49,993 --> 00:03:51,824
Eventually, that evening...

29
00:03:53,630 --> 00:03:56,258
we went out and got some beer.

30
00:03:56,533 --> 00:03:59,229
We smoked a little marijuana
and what have you.

31
00:03:59,503 --> 00:04:01,198
Went to a movie that night.

32
00:04:05,609 --> 00:04:08,043
I get up, I go to work on Saturday.

33
00:04:08,111 --> 00:04:10,841
Why did I meet this kid? I don't know.

34
00:04:10,914 --> 00:04:14,850
Why did I run out of gas at that time?
I don't know. But it happened.

35
00:06:01,325 --> 00:06:04,488
The day they picked me up, December 21.

36
00:06:06,263 --> 00:06:09,562
They took me upstairs.
What floor, I don't know.

37
00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:11,225
But they put me in a little room.

38
00:06:14,438 --> 00:06:15,928
Gus Rose walked in.

39
00:06:19,643 --> 00:06:22,373
He had a confession there
he wanted me to sign.

40
00:06:27,150 --> 00:06:28,674
He said that I would sign.

41
00:06:28,752 --> 00:06:32,916
He didn't give a damn what I said.
I would sign this piece of paper.

42
00:06:33,857 --> 00:06:35,449
I told him I couldn't.

43
00:06:39,296 --> 00:06:43,289
"I don't know what the hell
you people expect of me.

44
00:06:43,367 --> 00:06:45,631
"But there's no way I can sign that."

45
00:06:46,169 --> 00:06:49,468
He left. He came back in 10 minutes.

46
00:06:50,207 --> 00:06:52,232
And threw a pistol on the table.

47
00:06:53,643 --> 00:06:57,807
Asked me to look at it. Which I did. I looked.

48
00:06:58,849 --> 00:07:01,909
He asked me to pick it up.

49
00:07:02,853 --> 00:07:05,378
I told him no, I wouldn't do that.

50
00:07:06,490 --> 00:07:07,821
He threatened me.

51
00:07:08,658 --> 00:07:10,558
Again, I told him no.

52
00:07:11,795 --> 00:07:14,025
He pulled his service revolver on me.

53
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,333
We looked at each other for....
To me, it seemed hours.

54
00:07:22,572 --> 00:07:25,405
I do not like looking down
the barrel of a pistol.

55
00:07:25,809 --> 00:07:27,800
I do not like being threatened.

56
00:07:29,312 --> 00:07:32,611
When he finally saw
that he would either have to kill me...

57
00:07:33,550 --> 00:07:34,983
or forget the signature...

58
00:07:35,052 --> 00:07:38,488
I guess he forgot the signature,
because he put his pistol up.

59
00:07:39,222 --> 00:07:43,921
He took the pistol on the table,
put it up and stormed out.

60
00:07:45,195 --> 00:07:48,687
I had a casual, friendly conversation
with him to start with...

61
00:07:48,765 --> 00:07:51,359
to try to size him up...

62
00:07:51,435 --> 00:07:54,427
to see what he liked and what he didn't like.

63
00:07:56,373 --> 00:08:00,002
I found almost immediately
that he didn't have much conscience.

64
00:08:00,077 --> 00:08:04,173
Anything he had done,
it never really bothered him.

65
00:08:04,981 --> 00:08:07,449
He had done other things
that he told me about...

66
00:08:07,517 --> 00:08:10,077
that didn't seem to bother him in the least.

67
00:08:10,153 --> 00:08:12,644
He showed no expression whatsoever.

68
00:08:14,291 --> 00:08:18,694
It's just like he's sitting here
talking about the color of this wall...

69
00:08:20,330 --> 00:08:22,161
or the shooting of the police officer.

70
00:08:25,102 --> 00:08:27,570
He showed no reaction
to any of the questions.

71
00:08:32,142 --> 00:08:34,576
He almost overacted his innocence.

72
00:08:34,744 --> 00:08:37,235
He protested he hadn't done anything.

73
00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:41,111
Couldn't imagine
why we were bringing him in.

74
00:08:42,185 --> 00:08:44,983
He didn't fight or he didn't resist.

75
00:08:45,222 --> 00:08:47,247
He just protested his innocence.

76
00:08:47,924 --> 00:08:52,418
I told them what happened that
Saturday, that I had met this kid.

77
00:08:53,163 --> 00:08:55,324
I kept telling them the same thing.

78
00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,791
They didn't want to believe me.

79
00:08:59,769 --> 00:09:02,397
Never once was I allowed a phone call.

80
00:09:02,906 --> 00:09:05,306
Never once was an attorney there.

81
00:09:05,976 --> 00:09:08,501
I don't know how long this had been.

82
00:09:08,812 --> 00:09:12,976
I had smoked two packs of cigarettes
and had been out for a long time.

83
00:09:29,332 --> 00:09:32,768
Wood didn't take his ticket book
out of the car.

84
00:09:32,836 --> 00:09:35,202
He left it in the car on the front seat...

85
00:09:35,272 --> 00:09:38,173
which indicates
that he was not going to write a ticket.

86
00:09:38,241 --> 00:09:41,904
What he was probably going to do
was have them turn on the headlights.

87
00:09:41,978 --> 00:09:45,641
He didn't know that the car was stolen.

88
00:09:46,116 --> 00:09:49,517
I think that there's a very good chance...

89
00:09:49,586 --> 00:09:52,146
that he was going
to check the driver's license...

90
00:09:52,222 --> 00:09:55,851
and tell him to turn on his headlights,
and let the guy be on his way.

91
00:09:55,926 --> 00:09:58,451
Officer Wood's wife had purchased him...

92
00:09:59,529 --> 00:10:02,589
a bulletproof vest
and had it under the Christmas tree.

93
00:10:02,666 --> 00:10:06,568
Or had it stored away,
to give to him at Christmastime.

94
00:10:08,371 --> 00:10:12,808
His partner was one of the first
female police officers...

95
00:10:12,876 --> 00:10:14,002
that was assigned to patrol.

96
00:10:14,077 --> 00:10:18,104
They were from the Northwest Station.
Just patrol officers following the clock.

97
00:10:18,181 --> 00:10:20,706
Working the graveyard shift and everything.

98
00:10:21,051 --> 00:10:24,953
They had been into a fast-food
restaurant. And she had a malt.

99
00:10:26,022 --> 00:10:29,924
This car came by, these
two dudes in it, with no lights on.

100
00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:42,069
It wasn't a serious problem...

101
00:10:42,138 --> 00:10:44,868
but he just pulled up,
turned his lights on to stop him.

102
00:10:44,941 --> 00:10:47,637
Just to warn the man
that his lights were off.

103
00:11:00,056 --> 00:11:01,887
Got out of the car and walked up.

104
00:11:01,958 --> 00:11:05,018
Before he got to the window,
where the driver was...

105
00:11:05,095 --> 00:11:06,494
he was in the right position.

106
00:11:06,563 --> 00:11:08,929
This man just turned around and just...

107
00:11:08,999 --> 00:11:11,490
with a little small-caliber pistol.

108
00:11:18,808 --> 00:11:20,935
The first shot hit him in the arm.

109
00:11:21,311 --> 00:11:25,645
He had his flashlight. It hit
the flashlight and went into his arm.

110
00:11:25,715 --> 00:11:27,478
The next one hit him right in the chest.

111
00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:39,195
The officer falls in the street
and he was in the first traffic lane.

112
00:11:39,262 --> 00:11:41,253
He lay there and bled to death.

113
00:11:42,732 --> 00:11:44,222
So she's out of the car.

114
00:11:44,301 --> 00:11:46,861
She empties her pistol
at the fleeing suspect...

115
00:11:46,936 --> 00:11:48,631
and she runs to his aid.

116
00:11:52,342 --> 00:11:55,470
Procedure says you grab the radio
and call for an ambulance.

117
00:11:55,545 --> 00:11:58,514
Common sense would tell you that.
But what do you do?

118
00:11:59,316 --> 00:12:02,581
And that time, she's so...just tore down.

119
00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:06,311
And the blood.
An enormous amount of blood.

120
00:12:12,762 --> 00:12:17,199
How do we hold her responsible
for not following procedure?

121
00:12:19,536 --> 00:12:22,801
But the main thing was, she
couldn't remember the license number.

122
00:12:38,722 --> 00:12:43,284
When we started putting facts together
on how much information we had...

123
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,563
from the leads we had,
we found out we didn't have anything.

124
00:12:49,165 --> 00:12:53,864
The only thing that we knew
we were looking for was a blue Vega.

125
00:12:54,938 --> 00:12:59,068
Probably every Vega that was
registered in the state of Texas...

126
00:12:59,242 --> 00:13:01,039
was stopped and checked.

127
00:13:01,945 --> 00:13:04,971
We had people calling the office...

128
00:13:05,048 --> 00:13:08,108
saying, "I've got a Vega and it's not blue.

129
00:13:08,184 --> 00:13:10,448
"But would you come out
and be sure to check it.

130
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,354
"Be sure it's not mine, because
I don't want to get stopped anymore.

131
00:13:14,424 --> 00:13:15,686
"I'm afraid."

132
00:13:21,231 --> 00:13:23,756
If you're the investigator
assigned to the murder...

133
00:13:23,833 --> 00:13:26,165
you get frustrated with other witnesses.

134
00:13:26,236 --> 00:13:29,501
But when you got a police officer
that witnessed it...

135
00:13:29,572 --> 00:13:33,303
you expect that they would know
a little more than she knew.

136
00:13:34,544 --> 00:13:35,533
Procedure.

137
00:13:35,612 --> 00:13:38,945
When there's a two-person unit,
when either one approaches the car...

138
00:13:39,015 --> 00:13:41,711
the other positions himself
to the right rear...

139
00:13:41,785 --> 00:13:44,948
where they can watch
all the activity in the car.

140
00:13:45,221 --> 00:13:48,884
And if the man on the left of the driver
gets in trouble...

141
00:13:48,958 --> 00:13:51,654
their partner is in a position to help.

142
00:13:53,196 --> 00:13:55,664
Speculation was, at the time...

143
00:13:55,932 --> 00:13:58,696
that his partner was sitting in the car.

144
00:14:20,657 --> 00:14:22,852
That's where the discrepancies were.

145
00:14:23,293 --> 00:14:27,286
Just a matter of time, and whether
or not she was out of the car...

146
00:14:27,363 --> 00:14:30,093
completely out of the car,
or partially in the car...

147
00:14:30,166 --> 00:14:32,726
or just sitting in there with the door closed.

148
00:14:34,771 --> 00:14:37,934
And the thing I think we did then
that really helped....

149
00:14:39,609 --> 00:14:42,840
It didn't really help anything at all.
Let me back up.

150
00:14:42,912 --> 00:14:45,506
But it was interesting,
and it cost a lot of money...

151
00:14:45,582 --> 00:14:48,813
but it was worthwhile.
You got to cover every trail.

152
00:15:07,403 --> 00:15:10,167
A guy out of California...

153
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,334
I don't recall his name,
he was an expert in hypnosis.

154
00:15:13,409 --> 00:15:15,536
He came down,
hypnotized her and questioned her.

155
00:15:15,645 --> 00:15:16,976
What was interesting was...

156
00:15:17,046 --> 00:15:19,810
she couldn't remember anything
particularly about the car.

157
00:15:19,883 --> 00:15:21,441
She remembered getting a malt.

158
00:15:21,518 --> 00:15:23,986
They'd stopped in the fast-food.
It was a Whataburger.

159
00:15:24,053 --> 00:15:26,248
They remembered all that,
and stopping the car.

160
00:15:26,322 --> 00:15:28,654
Got back on the road.
She didn't remember anything.

161
00:15:28,725 --> 00:15:32,593
But she remembered a license number
off a hit-and-run vehicle...

162
00:15:32,662 --> 00:15:34,994
that they had worked earlier in the night.

163
00:16:01,491 --> 00:16:03,550
It was getting awfully close to Christmas.

164
00:16:03,626 --> 00:16:07,426
We'd never gone that long in Dallas
without clearing a murder of an officer.

165
00:16:07,497 --> 00:16:10,625
We'd had several killed,
but we'd cleared them pretty quick.

166
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,897
And this case had gone a month,
or nearly a month...

167
00:16:14,103 --> 00:16:15,934
and we still hadn't cleared it.

168
00:16:16,005 --> 00:16:19,964
We finally got the break that cleared it.
It came out of Vidor, Texas.

169
00:16:24,581 --> 00:16:28,381
Mr. Calvin Cunningham, who lives
in Vidor, had his home broken into...

170
00:16:28,451 --> 00:16:32,478
and his little Mercury Comet stolen.

171
00:16:32,956 --> 00:16:35,481
We felt as though
David had committed that crime.

172
00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:40,061
For several days, though,
he was missing. We couldn't find him.

173
00:16:40,863 --> 00:16:44,560
It was one afternoon, one of our
officers spotted Cunningham's car...

174
00:16:44,634 --> 00:16:46,829
on North Main Street, here in Vidor.

175
00:16:46,936 --> 00:16:50,030
David abandoned the vehicle
and ran on foot.

176
00:16:52,976 --> 00:16:55,945
We started getting
little bits of information, though...

177
00:16:56,012 --> 00:17:00,449
that David had been involved in a
shooting in Dallas of a police officer.

178
00:17:00,950 --> 00:17:04,078
We would always get
third-hand rumor, fourth-hand rumor.

179
00:17:04,854 --> 00:17:09,689
So we went back to a few of his other
comrades in crime, we could call them.

180
00:17:09,993 --> 00:17:13,258
They said,
"We thought he was just bragging.

181
00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:15,695
"We didn't really take him seriously."

182
00:17:15,765 --> 00:17:18,666
Sitting down, watching the
evening news, well, the night news.

183
00:17:18,735 --> 00:17:20,862
My father was asleep on the couch.

184
00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:24,469
Heard somebody knocking at the door.
It was David Harris.

185
00:17:25,341 --> 00:17:26,774
I let him in. He came in.

186
00:17:26,843 --> 00:17:29,311
He was standing there beside my chair...

187
00:17:29,379 --> 00:17:33,782
and a news broadcast advertised
about a police officer shot in Dallas.

188
00:17:34,984 --> 00:17:37,544
Right then and there he starts
swearing up and down.

189
00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:41,021
He says, "I swear to God,
I shot that fucking pig."

190
00:17:41,257 --> 00:17:43,191
He says, "I'm the one that killed him."

191
00:17:43,259 --> 00:17:45,853
Somewhere around Dallas,
they got pulled over.

192
00:17:46,129 --> 00:17:49,496
I think he said because
they were checking out a stolen car.

193
00:17:49,732 --> 00:17:53,429
He said that the cop had pulled him over...

194
00:17:53,703 --> 00:17:55,398
and walked up to the window.

195
00:17:55,605 --> 00:17:58,005
When the cop came,
he rolled down the window...

196
00:17:58,074 --> 00:18:00,440
and just pulled the gun up and shot him.

197
00:18:00,543 --> 00:18:02,067
He swore up and down.

198
00:18:02,145 --> 00:18:05,410
He made a big scene about it.
Jumped up and down...

199
00:18:05,581 --> 00:18:07,549
trying to get anybody and everybody...

200
00:18:07,617 --> 00:18:10,643
to listen to him.
"Yeah, I shot that son of a gun."

201
00:18:10,953 --> 00:18:13,717
And everybody said,
"Sure you did, David. Sure."

202
00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:16,590
"I swear to God I killed that cop."

203
00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:21,492
I asked him if he'd been to Dallas.
He denied having been to Dallas.

204
00:18:22,098 --> 00:18:24,532
I asked him if he'd been involved
in any shooting...

205
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,593
or knew anything about a shooting,
and he denied that to the end.

206
00:18:28,971 --> 00:18:32,839
Which is fairly consistent with David.
Even if he had some involvement...

207
00:18:32,909 --> 00:18:36,606
his first way that he always treats you,
he would deny.

208
00:18:36,679 --> 00:18:39,580
Then, if he felt as though
you really knew he had done it...

209
00:18:39,649 --> 00:18:41,514
then he would be truthful with you.

210
00:18:42,018 --> 00:18:44,509
He give me a pistol, a .22 caliber pistol.

211
00:18:45,154 --> 00:18:49,090
He showed it to me. He says,
"That's the one I shot him with."

212
00:18:50,059 --> 00:18:51,890
He gave me the pistol.

213
00:18:53,796 --> 00:18:55,525
I didn't really consider it that much.

214
00:18:55,598 --> 00:18:58,829
I don't guess I really realized
he did shoot the cop.

215
00:18:59,602 --> 00:19:02,093
He led me to a swampy area...

216
00:19:02,371 --> 00:19:05,238
several hundred yards
behind his residence in Rose City.

217
00:19:05,308 --> 00:19:07,868
There was a sock under water.
He said, "There it is."

218
00:19:07,944 --> 00:19:10,640
And he had sprayed this sock with boot oil.

219
00:19:11,948 --> 00:19:13,745
When we retrieved the gun...

220
00:19:13,816 --> 00:19:17,274
I said, "I better do something with it.
It's going to rust up."

221
00:19:17,353 --> 00:19:21,813
Even the time that I saw the gun
at the trial in Dallas...

222
00:19:21,891 --> 00:19:24,826
it looked just as good
as when I'd taken it out of the swamp.

223
00:19:24,894 --> 00:19:28,762
So he had taken pretty good care of it,
even though he did put it under water.

224
00:19:32,602 --> 00:19:34,729
He got to thinking...

225
00:19:34,937 --> 00:19:38,236
"I didn't do that
and I've been saying that I did...

226
00:19:38,608 --> 00:19:42,339
"and I'm in over my head now,
I better tell them what happened.

227
00:19:42,411 --> 00:19:46,279
"Because they are going to send me
to the penitentiary for life...

228
00:19:46,349 --> 00:19:48,909
"if I don't tell them what really happened."

229
00:19:48,985 --> 00:19:52,352
So he said, "I am just bragging about this.

230
00:19:52,421 --> 00:19:56,152
"I didn't do it, but I was there,
and I know who did do it."

231
00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:59,557
And, of course, he came clean then.

232
00:20:01,197 --> 00:20:03,392
He tried to hide no facts.

233
00:20:04,167 --> 00:20:06,431
He just seemed like a friendly kid.

234
00:20:08,104 --> 00:20:12,734
I may have talked to him
15 or 20 minutes on a friendly basis...

235
00:20:15,778 --> 00:20:17,507
just to keep him friendly.

236
00:20:20,583 --> 00:20:22,642
We didn't want to make him mad.

237
00:20:26,856 --> 00:20:29,723
But we didn't want him to tell us
something that he thought.

238
00:20:29,792 --> 00:20:32,056
We wanted him to tell us what we knew.

239
00:20:32,595 --> 00:20:35,758
It wasn't very long until I realized
that what he knew...

240
00:20:36,766 --> 00:20:40,395
was the facts of the case,
and it matched with what we knew.

241
00:20:40,469 --> 00:20:42,096
And it had to be right.

242
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:44,939
The story that I told was....

243
00:20:45,842 --> 00:20:49,869
It was like 12:00 something.
So it was the next day...

244
00:20:51,547 --> 00:20:54,311
early in the morning. We were stopped.

245
00:20:57,486 --> 00:21:00,546
When we were stopped,
the officer came up to the car...

246
00:21:00,990 --> 00:21:04,926
and asked to see the driver's license,
and he just started shooting.

247
00:21:09,832 --> 00:21:14,496
I don't know why, but it's always
seemed like time just stopped.

248
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,435
It didn't seem like any time passed.

249
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:24,341
It just seemed like it was, boom!

250
00:21:24,413 --> 00:21:27,678
Time stopped or something.
I don't know what it is.

251
00:21:32,722 --> 00:21:34,121
It's like a flash.

252
00:21:36,792 --> 00:21:38,521
We went back to his room.

253
00:21:39,228 --> 00:21:43,528
He was supposed to ask his brother
if I could stay there that night.

254
00:21:43,699 --> 00:21:46,896
But he said
that his brother don't like to do that.

255
00:21:48,137 --> 00:21:51,573
Anyhow, he went in
and never came back out. So I left.

256
00:21:55,211 --> 00:21:57,406
Ended up pulling into a parking lot.

257
00:21:59,048 --> 00:22:01,243
I slept there I think, for a while.

258
00:22:01,417 --> 00:22:04,409
Then, finally, the next morning,
early or something...

259
00:22:04,487 --> 00:22:07,183
I found my way to Freeway 45.

260
00:22:08,057 --> 00:22:09,422
And went back home.

261
00:22:16,032 --> 00:22:19,934
After riding around with him,
I come to find out he's got an arsenal.

262
00:22:20,002 --> 00:22:24,234
He's got pistols. He's got rifles.

263
00:22:24,941 --> 00:22:28,604
He's got this pistol.
He's waving it around. He's doing this.

264
00:22:28,844 --> 00:22:32,905
I told him, "Hey, why don't you put
those in the trunk of the car?"

265
00:22:34,750 --> 00:22:36,650
We stopped at a restaurant...

266
00:22:36,719 --> 00:22:39,517
and ordered and ate sandwiches in the car.

267
00:22:39,655 --> 00:22:41,213
I bought a six-pack of beer.

268
00:22:43,125 --> 00:22:45,116
He pulled this pistol back out.

269
00:22:45,361 --> 00:22:47,921
And I ask him why he got the pistol out.

270
00:22:48,264 --> 00:22:51,700
And he kind of laughed...

271
00:22:51,767 --> 00:22:55,294
rolled the window down,
and fired the pistol outside the car.

272
00:22:57,473 --> 00:22:59,998
And I asked him to please put it up.

273
00:23:02,144 --> 00:23:06,137
And I think he handed me the pistol,
and I put it under the driver's seat.

274
00:23:06,415 --> 00:23:09,942
He wanted to go to the movies,
so we went to the movies.

275
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,686
We got there probably at about 7:00.

276
00:23:22,031 --> 00:23:24,761
He was the one
that had picked the movie out.

277
00:23:25,001 --> 00:23:27,970
I call them drive-in movies,
beer-drinking movies.

278
00:23:28,037 --> 00:23:30,938
$0.50, put them together
and make a bunch of money...

279
00:23:31,007 --> 00:23:33,976
with a bunch of people
getting drunk at the drive-in.

280
00:23:34,043 --> 00:23:37,376
-Are you going to concede?
-Please, sit down--

281
00:23:37,446 --> 00:23:39,175
What is this, Mr. Brooks?

282
00:23:39,582 --> 00:23:42,312
-Anybody can see it's an ashtray.
-Wrong!

283
00:23:42,451 --> 00:23:45,477
Anybody can plainly see it's a wall-breaker!

284
00:23:45,621 --> 00:23:47,612
I'm trying to speak for you!

285
00:23:47,757 --> 00:23:52,160
I'm trying to speak for all of you!
I am the student body!

286
00:23:54,764 --> 00:23:58,894
The show that was on was half over.
We watched half of the one show...

287
00:23:59,869 --> 00:24:03,305
we started watching
the first part of the second show.

288
00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:08,471
We want a victory, and we're gonna get it.

289
00:24:20,089 --> 00:24:22,557
I didn't really care for the second feature...

290
00:24:22,625 --> 00:24:26,493
which is an R-rated, cheerleader-type thing.

291
00:24:26,562 --> 00:24:28,291
I don't know what it was.

292
00:24:29,231 --> 00:24:30,755
May I have some wine?

293
00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:49,982
It's good, Ross.
I didn't know you could cook.

294
00:24:50,052 --> 00:24:51,576
It is good, isn't it?

295
00:24:52,588 --> 00:24:55,352
You got to try my celery rémoulade.

296
00:25:07,703 --> 00:25:09,671
No.

297
00:25:16,378 --> 00:25:18,278
I told him I wanted to leave.

298
00:25:18,414 --> 00:25:22,441
"I don't really care
to sit here and watch this. Let's go."

299
00:25:25,955 --> 00:25:30,392
He's acting strange, he wanted
to watch the end. Anyway, we left.

300
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,521
We drove back towards Dallas
and we drove to the motel.

301
00:25:36,732 --> 00:25:40,168
There's a little store.
I bought a pack of cigarettes...

302
00:25:40,236 --> 00:25:41,669
and a newspaper.

303
00:25:41,904 --> 00:25:44,737
And when I left,
this kid was still sitting there.

304
00:25:46,075 --> 00:25:49,442
I leaned against the car and we
talked to him for a few minutes...

305
00:25:49,512 --> 00:25:53,539
and I told him
that since he was looking for a job...

306
00:25:53,616 --> 00:25:55,550
and there hadn't been anybody at work...

307
00:25:55,618 --> 00:25:58,348
that if he wanted to stop back
Monday morning...

308
00:25:58,420 --> 00:26:01,287
that sure, he could ride out
and follow me to work...

309
00:26:01,357 --> 00:26:04,724
and he could talk to the boss.
And he would probably get a job.

310
00:26:05,494 --> 00:26:09,521
I told him that I would catch him
Monday morning if he showed up.

311
00:26:09,632 --> 00:26:11,998
I told him what time I went to work.
Why, I left.

312
00:26:12,067 --> 00:26:14,797
I walked around the store
and went to the house.

313
00:26:15,171 --> 00:26:19,540
When I walked in, the television was
on and my brother was sleeping.

314
00:26:19,975 --> 00:26:22,842
He had been home this whole time
that I had been gone.

315
00:26:23,445 --> 00:26:25,276
So I made me a sandwich...

316
00:26:26,048 --> 00:26:29,040
and sat there and watched the end of
The Carol Burnett Show.

317
00:26:32,254 --> 00:26:36,953
When it went off, the news came on
and I watched 15 minutes of it.

318
00:26:38,494 --> 00:26:41,224
And that was it.
I turned the TV off and went to sleep.

319
00:26:56,045 --> 00:26:59,446
Finally, they bring in a stenographer.

320
00:26:59,615 --> 00:27:02,413
She sits down and I run the story.

321
00:27:02,985 --> 00:27:05,818
I tell them what happened this Saturday.

322
00:27:06,021 --> 00:27:08,319
She leaves. She types.

323
00:27:35,384 --> 00:27:38,285
She comes back in about 25 to 30 minutes...

324
00:27:38,354 --> 00:27:40,948
with a copy of this statement.

325
00:27:42,291 --> 00:27:43,781
I read through it...

326
00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:48,521
and when it was basically what I liked...

327
00:27:49,832 --> 00:27:51,197
yes, I signed it.

328
00:28:01,844 --> 00:28:05,837
He admits driving the car
and taking a right on Inwood Road...

329
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:11,308
off of Interstate 35...

330
00:28:12,187 --> 00:28:13,779
or Highway 183.

331
00:28:16,792 --> 00:28:18,225
He admits driving it.

332
00:28:18,294 --> 00:28:21,889
After he made his right turn
on Inwood Road...

333
00:28:22,631 --> 00:28:25,259
this is where our statement ends.

334
00:28:27,503 --> 00:28:30,666
He says he does not
remember anything after that.

335
00:28:31,874 --> 00:28:34,104
He didn't remember anything
about a shooting.

336
00:28:34,176 --> 00:28:38,545
He didn't remember anything about
a police officer stopping him.

337
00:28:39,448 --> 00:28:43,384
That part of his mind
just conveniently went blank.

338
00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:46,081
He remembered driving the car...

339
00:28:46,155 --> 00:28:49,022
and he remembered approaching
the scene of the shooting...

340
00:28:49,091 --> 00:28:51,218
and then, from that point, he blacks out...

341
00:28:51,293 --> 00:28:53,727
and can't remember
until he gets to the motel room...

342
00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:57,562
which is some 10 minutes later.
Everything else he remembers vividly.

343
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,931
And that's just a convenient memory
lapse, is all that is.

344
00:29:05,974 --> 00:29:08,636
The Morning News in Dallas County...

345
00:29:08,711 --> 00:29:10,872
stated that I had signed a confession...

346
00:29:10,946 --> 00:29:13,574
that I had confessed
to the killing of Robert Wood...

347
00:29:13,649 --> 00:29:16,743
and they had their killer
and they were ready to go with it.

348
00:29:18,487 --> 00:29:22,514
The statement that I signed
for Dallas County...

349
00:29:24,526 --> 00:29:25,720
was never...

350
00:29:25,794 --> 00:29:29,890
and never would have been anything
as "a confession."

351
00:29:30,999 --> 00:29:33,058
But yet, they labeled it as such.

352
00:29:34,103 --> 00:29:37,971
Of course, I couldn't dispute this
because I didn't even know about it.

353
00:29:38,741 --> 00:29:42,700
I heard no news.
I knew nothing for two weeks.

354
00:29:42,945 --> 00:29:45,641
They kept me completely away
from everybody.

355
00:29:49,651 --> 00:29:54,020
Several times we talked to her,
trying to get her to recall.

356
00:29:54,089 --> 00:29:58,253
"Do you recall the license number?
Do you recall anything to help us?"

357
00:29:58,327 --> 00:30:01,023
And she gave us
a pretty good description of the car.

358
00:30:01,096 --> 00:30:04,395
As it turned out, her description
of the car was real close.

359
00:30:13,542 --> 00:30:16,238
It comes out that we weren't
looking for a blue Vega.

360
00:30:16,311 --> 00:30:18,438
We were looking for a Comet.

361
00:30:20,949 --> 00:30:24,578
No telling the man-hours
we literally wasted...

362
00:30:25,053 --> 00:30:26,577
looking for a blue Vega.

363
00:30:32,895 --> 00:30:36,058
There is a difference
between a Vega and a Mercury Comet.

364
00:30:36,598 --> 00:30:39,931
So in reality, in regard to cars...

365
00:30:40,235 --> 00:30:43,636
every piece of information
that was called in...

366
00:30:44,239 --> 00:30:48,073
they were calling in regard to a Comet,
I mean, a Vega.

367
00:30:56,985 --> 00:30:59,886
The people that called in were truthful,
trying to help.

368
00:30:59,955 --> 00:31:02,583
They really were trying to help.

369
00:31:02,658 --> 00:31:04,956
We just all had the wrong information.

370
00:31:26,248 --> 00:31:29,081
There wasn't a mark on this car
David Harris had stolen.

371
00:31:29,151 --> 00:31:30,516
Wasn't a mark.

372
00:31:30,853 --> 00:31:33,413
Do you think a car sitting still...

373
00:31:34,423 --> 00:31:38,257
starting from a stop, heading up a hill...

374
00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:40,628
with a woman standing right behind it...

375
00:31:40,696 --> 00:31:42,926
that is a very good shot with a pistol....

376
00:31:42,998 --> 00:31:45,933
She should have hit
the damn thing one time. She didn't.

377
00:31:46,001 --> 00:31:49,835
I wish to God she had blown whoever
was driving the car's head off...

378
00:31:49,905 --> 00:31:52,066
because I wouldn't have been here.

379
00:31:55,744 --> 00:31:57,678
I went back several times...

380
00:31:57,746 --> 00:32:01,204
and with Mr. Cunningham,
he and I both searched...

381
00:32:01,316 --> 00:32:05,616
and could find no indications that
that car had been hit by gunfire.

382
00:32:07,723 --> 00:32:10,624
Later on, he finally found one place...

383
00:32:10,692 --> 00:32:13,991
that he felt as though
that a bullet had been creased on it.

384
00:32:14,363 --> 00:32:18,197
But before he could tell me about it,
his daughter totaled the car out.

385
00:32:18,634 --> 00:32:20,226
Totally demolished it.

386
00:32:24,172 --> 00:32:27,699
I was doing burglaries and some robberies...

387
00:32:29,778 --> 00:32:32,611
and a few possession cases
and stuff like that.

388
00:32:32,681 --> 00:32:34,911
I think he just came up to me and said:

389
00:32:34,983 --> 00:32:38,612
"Are you Edith James?
I'd like to talk about my case."

390
00:32:38,687 --> 00:32:40,882
That's the way I remember it, anyhow.

391
00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:44,621
And I said, "Sure."
And I said, "What sort of a case is it?"

392
00:32:44,693 --> 00:32:47,457
He said, "It's a capital murder." And I said....

393
00:32:47,529 --> 00:32:49,121
Inside, I kind of thought:

394
00:32:49,197 --> 00:32:53,327
"I've never done one,
but I can surely talk to him about it."

395
00:32:55,971 --> 00:32:58,599
I hate to be considered...

396
00:32:59,675 --> 00:33:04,078
some kind of dummy that believes
in the innocence of her clients.

397
00:33:05,314 --> 00:33:08,215
A lot of people think, "A woman lawyer...

398
00:33:08,283 --> 00:33:12,049
"she's bound to stupidly believe
anything she's told."

399
00:33:13,755 --> 00:33:16,223
I admit, I'm sort of a gullible person.

400
00:33:16,758 --> 00:33:19,989
But on the other hand,
I've seen an awful lot of people...

401
00:33:20,062 --> 00:33:22,724
who admitted guilt or were found guilty...

402
00:33:22,965 --> 00:33:27,493
and all but Randall turned out
to be guilty, in my opinion.

403
00:33:30,739 --> 00:33:33,333
Douglas Mulder had a perfect win record.

404
00:33:35,277 --> 00:33:39,236
I believe he resigned from the
D.A. 's office without any defeats.

405
00:33:39,514 --> 00:33:41,345
That's why he's legendary.

406
00:33:42,551 --> 00:33:45,987
Everything, as I recall,
that Mulder ever said...

407
00:33:46,054 --> 00:33:48,079
was about what a great guy Mulder was...

408
00:33:48,223 --> 00:33:52,216
and how marvelous it was that
he was getting all these convictions.

409
00:33:54,463 --> 00:33:58,627
I wanted somebody else in on it,
so I got Dennis interested in it...

410
00:33:59,368 --> 00:34:01,893
because Dennis has a lot more
trial experience...

411
00:34:01,970 --> 00:34:04,939
and Dennis wins
practically all of his jury cases.

412
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,108
And Dennis was very enthusiastic
about the Randall Adams case...

413
00:34:09,177 --> 00:34:11,338
because he kept saying,
"This is one we can win.

414
00:34:11,413 --> 00:34:15,281
"They don't have substantial evidence.
All they've got is David Harris."

415
00:34:15,751 --> 00:34:19,983
I prepared a motion for a continuance
to get more time to try the case...

416
00:34:20,856 --> 00:34:25,486
and in doing that had to lay out
my schedule for several weeks...

417
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,085
as to exactly what time
I'd be in Vidor, Texas.

418
00:34:28,697 --> 00:34:32,463
Vidor is the headquarters of the
Ku Klux Klan for the state of Texas.

419
00:34:32,734 --> 00:34:35,726
It's a city where black people
will not spend the night.

420
00:34:35,804 --> 00:34:39,763
Black people won't even stop there
to get their car filled with gasoline.

421
00:34:40,308 --> 00:34:43,402
And furthermore, the people of Vidor
were under the impression...

422
00:34:43,478 --> 00:34:46,447
that the policeman that was murdered
was a black man.

423
00:34:47,649 --> 00:34:49,549
I had to stop at a motel on the way.

424
00:34:49,885 --> 00:34:53,150
My wife and I stayed in one room,
the lady lawyer in another room.

425
00:34:53,221 --> 00:34:57,487
We arranged to get up very early,
go to Vidor and start our investigation.

426
00:34:58,126 --> 00:35:00,117
At about 6:00 in the morning...

427
00:35:00,796 --> 00:35:03,287
Edith James, the lady lawyer, got up...

428
00:35:04,232 --> 00:35:06,257
and was looking for me.

429
00:35:06,501 --> 00:35:10,028
While she went out in the parking lot
to find me, she went to one room...

430
00:35:10,105 --> 00:35:11,766
and someone in the parking lot said:

431
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,070
"If you're looking
for the lawyer from Dallas...

432
00:35:14,142 --> 00:35:16,667
"he's in room...."
And he gave her the room number.

433
00:35:16,745 --> 00:35:18,474
I immediately began to suspect...

434
00:35:18,547 --> 00:35:22,574
from the time I was that close to Vidor,
I was being followed and observed.

435
00:35:23,618 --> 00:35:26,314
Doug Mulder had been there
the week before I had...

436
00:35:26,388 --> 00:35:28,754
and had told the people in Vidor that I was...

437
00:35:29,124 --> 00:35:32,321
an Eastern-educated
civil liberties attorney...

438
00:35:32,961 --> 00:35:37,330
and that I was down there
to discredit David Harris.

439
00:35:40,001 --> 00:35:43,664
And then I had been recommended
to see one particular policeman...

440
00:35:43,739 --> 00:35:47,539
who had been led
to the solution of this case.

441
00:35:47,642 --> 00:35:49,576
And I had the impression...

442
00:35:49,644 --> 00:35:53,045
that he was the one honest policeman
I could trust in Vidor.

443
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:57,750
He told me that
after the policeman was killed...

444
00:35:58,019 --> 00:36:00,249
David Harris went back to Vidor.

445
00:36:00,322 --> 00:36:04,053
But before he was arrested,
he committed a robbery down there...

446
00:36:04,292 --> 00:36:08,388
and had someone on the floor
of a 7-Eleven type of store...

447
00:36:08,463 --> 00:36:10,158
with a shotgun at her throat.

448
00:36:10,966 --> 00:36:12,456
Got back there...

449
00:36:13,668 --> 00:36:17,104
robbed O'Bannion's 7-Eleven with a .22 rifle.

450
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,273
Committed some other burglaries
and what have you.

451
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:25,146
All this time I was on probation.
Juvenile probation.

452
00:36:27,382 --> 00:36:30,977
Eventually I turned myself in
for this stuff in Vidor.

453
00:36:36,691 --> 00:36:40,627
I think I made a confession.
I can't even remember exactly.

454
00:36:41,296 --> 00:36:42,695
So I'm told I did.

455
00:36:49,971 --> 00:36:52,371
He had told us he had robbed stores,
and we laughed.

456
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,271
"Sure, we know you have."

457
00:36:54,342 --> 00:36:56,367
I'd given him one of my hats.

458
00:36:56,444 --> 00:36:59,470
It's an old Bonnie-and-Clyde-looking
hat, it's turned sideways.

459
00:36:59,548 --> 00:37:02,779
We said, "We'll draw you a little
mustache, walk in with that gun.

460
00:37:02,851 --> 00:37:05,046
"Nobody'll know who you are."

461
00:37:05,353 --> 00:37:09,346
About 2:00 that morning,
I was asleep and the phone rings.

462
00:37:09,491 --> 00:37:12,790
I said, "Hello?" He said, "This is
David." "This is David Harris?"

463
00:37:12,861 --> 00:37:15,455
"Yeah," he said, "I did it.
Will you come and get me?"

464
00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:17,725
I said, "I'm not coming to get you.
I'm asleep."

465
00:37:22,237 --> 00:37:24,102
He didn't have a conscience.

466
00:37:25,540 --> 00:37:28,373
If I do something bad, it kind of gets to me.

467
00:37:28,443 --> 00:37:32,209
I feel, "Shucks, I shouldn't have done
that. I feel bad about it."

468
00:37:33,014 --> 00:37:35,949
But it didn't bother him.
Didn't bother him at all.

469
00:37:51,666 --> 00:37:54,328
We asked the D.A. in Vidor, Texas...

470
00:37:54,469 --> 00:37:56,994
what they were going to do
with little David. They said:

471
00:37:57,072 --> 00:37:59,802
"We'll send him
to the Texas Youth Council."

472
00:37:59,875 --> 00:38:01,843
And we sort of tried to inquire...

473
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:05,471
didn't he think it was strange
that there was a robbery committed...

474
00:38:05,547 --> 00:38:07,208
with that same pistol.

475
00:38:07,282 --> 00:38:10,251
And here it was David Harris' pistol...

476
00:38:10,619 --> 00:38:14,578
David Harris' automobile
that picked up Randall Adams.

477
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:17,117
Didn't he think it was a little odd...

478
00:38:17,192 --> 00:38:21,219
that all the utensils for committing
this so-called murder...

479
00:38:21,429 --> 00:38:25,365
were furnished by David Harris
who got off scot-free...

480
00:38:25,433 --> 00:38:28,231
and was being a witness
for the prosecution?

481
00:38:28,303 --> 00:38:32,797
And all he said was, "We don't
feel that way in Vidor, Texas.

482
00:38:33,308 --> 00:38:35,242
"Our people just are not that....

483
00:38:35,310 --> 00:38:39,542
"We're not that keen
on ruining a young man's life."

484
00:38:42,717 --> 00:38:45,948
I tried to introduce the crime spree theory.

485
00:38:46,021 --> 00:38:49,320
The theory that David Harris
was on this series of crimes...

486
00:38:49,624 --> 00:38:52,457
both before and after
the killing of the policeman.

487
00:38:52,527 --> 00:38:55,189
That he would be the person who had...

488
00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:58,761
the heart filled with malice
most apt to commit a murder.

489
00:38:59,367 --> 00:39:02,962
But the judge would not allow me
to introduce any of those crimes.

490
00:39:04,472 --> 00:39:06,633
They'd had a 28-year-old man.

491
00:39:07,375 --> 00:39:10,640
The only alternative
would be prosecuting a 16-year-old...

492
00:39:10,712 --> 00:39:13,875
that could not be given
the death penalty under Texas law...

493
00:39:13,949 --> 00:39:15,974
where our 28-year-old man could.

494
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:21,520
That's always been the predominant
motive, in my opinion...

495
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:24,615
for having a death penalty case
against Randall Adams.

496
00:39:25,126 --> 00:39:27,788
Not that they had him so dead to rights.

497
00:39:27,862 --> 00:39:29,796
But just that he was a convenient age.

498
00:39:34,803 --> 00:39:37,067
The judge is supposed to have said....

499
00:39:37,339 --> 00:39:40,900
That Don Metcalfe
is supposed to have said...

500
00:39:41,343 --> 00:39:44,744
to Jeanette White, Dennis White's wife...

501
00:39:44,813 --> 00:39:47,441
"What do you care? He's only a drifter."

502
00:39:51,453 --> 00:39:52,886
I grew up in a family...

503
00:39:52,954 --> 00:39:56,185
where I was taught a great respect
for law enforcement.

504
00:39:56,791 --> 00:40:00,227
I became acutely aware of the dangers...

505
00:40:00,295 --> 00:40:03,992
that police officers go through,
law enforcement officials go through...

506
00:40:04,065 --> 00:40:08,502
that I think much of the public
is not really sensitive to.

507
00:40:10,238 --> 00:40:11,899
My father was an FBI man.

508
00:40:11,973 --> 00:40:15,272
Probably at the worst possible time
to be in the FBI.

509
00:40:15,343 --> 00:40:19,370
It was from 1932 to 1935 in Chicago.

510
00:40:20,582 --> 00:40:24,746
He was at the Biograph Theater
the night that Dillinger was killed.

511
00:40:27,455 --> 00:40:31,221
It was a hot summer evening.
Little air conditioning in Chicago...

512
00:40:31,292 --> 00:40:33,283
and people were out for a walk.

513
00:40:49,344 --> 00:40:52,404
My father would tell me
that when Dillinger was killed...

514
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,970
within a matter of two minutes...

515
00:40:54,049 --> 00:40:56,779
people were dipping their
handkerchiefs in the blood...

516
00:40:57,152 --> 00:40:58,779
to get souvenirs.

517
00:40:58,987 --> 00:41:01,080
And he vividly remembered one lady...

518
00:41:01,156 --> 00:41:04,489
who, all she had was a newspaper,
held it up and said:

519
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:08,825
"I bet I'm the only lady from Kansas
City with John Dillinger's blood."

520
00:41:13,101 --> 00:41:15,296
He told me, the "Woman in Red"...

521
00:41:15,937 --> 00:41:19,065
she had on an orange dress.
This is trivia, okay?

522
00:41:19,340 --> 00:41:22,400
It looked red under the lights.
He said it was really orange.

523
00:41:22,477 --> 00:41:26,208
So she got to be known as the
"Lady in Red" that fingered Dillinger.

524
00:41:26,281 --> 00:41:28,841
He said, "It was really the Lady in Orange."

525
00:41:29,918 --> 00:41:32,978
As her reward, she got a new fur coat...

526
00:41:33,054 --> 00:41:36,455
and a one-way ticket
back to her native Romania.

527
00:41:44,332 --> 00:41:48,428
His whole story
from the start was two hours late.

528
00:41:49,437 --> 00:41:52,838
I met this kid
at around 10:00 in the morning.

529
00:41:53,141 --> 00:41:55,268
He says we met at noon.

530
00:41:56,144 --> 00:42:00,240
I say we were at the Bronco Bowl
at 2:00 or 3:00.

531
00:42:00,315 --> 00:42:02,306
He says it was 5:00 or 6:00.

532
00:42:03,985 --> 00:42:07,921
Everything that we did coincide with,
he was two hours late.

533
00:42:09,524 --> 00:42:13,858
Two hours later. Two hours into the night.

534
00:42:15,530 --> 00:42:17,828
His testimony is that...

535
00:42:17,899 --> 00:42:21,335
as we were getting off the freeway
on Inwood Avenue...

536
00:42:21,769 --> 00:42:24,499
he stated that I'm driving the car...

537
00:42:24,572 --> 00:42:26,233
that we're pulled over.

538
00:42:26,574 --> 00:42:30,203
He gets scared and he slumps down
in the seat of the car.

539
00:42:40,388 --> 00:42:42,379
That, as the officer walks up...

540
00:42:43,224 --> 00:42:47,854
and shines his flashlight,
and I roll down my window...

541
00:42:52,133 --> 00:42:54,567
I pull the pistol out and blow this man away.

542
00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:02,641
His testimony is...

543
00:43:02,844 --> 00:43:05,574
when I finally do drive to the motel...

544
00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:09,313
I get out. I tell him, "Don't worry about it."

545
00:43:09,384 --> 00:43:11,318
"Forget this ever happened."

546
00:43:12,420 --> 00:43:13,819
That's crazy.

547
00:43:17,292 --> 00:43:19,726
The police officer was killed at 12:30...

548
00:43:19,794 --> 00:43:22,957
which is about two and a half hours
after he last saw me.

549
00:43:27,302 --> 00:43:29,202
Just before he went into the motel...

550
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:31,830
he'd gone across the motel courtyard...

551
00:43:31,906 --> 00:43:35,034
to a little store over there
and bought some cigarettes.

552
00:43:35,243 --> 00:43:38,906
And I was supposed to go and find out
if the man remembered him...

553
00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:42,973
coming in there just before 10:00
to buy the cigarettes.

554
00:43:43,618 --> 00:43:47,145
I didn't get over there
to Fort Worth for a long time.

555
00:43:47,855 --> 00:43:51,848
We got some pictures from his family
that didn't show him in jail clothes.

556
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,326
I took the pictures in to show them
to the man behind the counter.

557
00:43:57,298 --> 00:44:00,324
He was very cooperative
and he wanted to help us.

558
00:44:00,735 --> 00:44:02,259
But he honestly.... He said:

559
00:44:02,337 --> 00:44:05,135
"I don't remember anything
about this guy coming in there...

560
00:44:05,206 --> 00:44:09,370
"I couldn't tell one night from another.
Might have been that night or another.

561
00:44:09,444 --> 00:44:11,674
"'Cause they were always coming
for cigarettes."

562
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,342
His brother...

563
00:44:15,617 --> 00:44:16,777
at first...

564
00:44:19,654 --> 00:44:23,681
was saying that at the time
of the murder, that he was home...

565
00:44:25,126 --> 00:44:29,586
watching...I believe it was
a wrestling match on TV.

566
00:44:30,365 --> 00:44:34,699
And he said, "Me and my brother likes
wrestling matches. He was with me.

567
00:44:35,169 --> 00:44:37,933
"Randall, my brother,
was with me all night long.

568
00:44:38,006 --> 00:44:39,701
"He couldn't have done it."

569
00:44:40,441 --> 00:44:42,875
He was trying to cover for his brother.

570
00:44:44,479 --> 00:44:47,778
Later, as I recall, he changed...

571
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:50,645
because he said:

572
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:54,647
"If I get down there and perjure myself...

573
00:44:55,056 --> 00:44:58,184
"there's nothing that they can do
because they've got the case."

574
00:44:58,259 --> 00:45:00,659
This is the way I think that he thought.

575
00:45:02,330 --> 00:45:04,389
"They know that my brother did it.

576
00:45:04,465 --> 00:45:08,595
"If I get up there and lie,
they are going to have me for perjury.

577
00:45:08,670 --> 00:45:12,265
"I'll be in the penitentiary with him,
and it ain't going to do any good...

578
00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:15,741
"so I just ain't going to testify.
I ain't gonna say nothing."

579
00:45:15,843 --> 00:45:18,835
So he backed off of his story completely...

580
00:45:20,682 --> 00:45:23,173
and Adams was left without any witnesses.

581
00:45:29,524 --> 00:45:32,982
Her in-court testimony
and her original statement...

582
00:45:33,061 --> 00:45:34,551
which should be the best.

583
00:45:34,629 --> 00:45:37,257
You're talking 15 to 20 minutes
after the killing.

584
00:45:37,332 --> 00:45:40,165
Should be the best eyewitness
testimony she's got.

585
00:45:41,469 --> 00:45:43,903
It doesn't match. Doesn't match at all.

586
00:46:01,789 --> 00:46:03,780
In court, she testified...

587
00:46:04,025 --> 00:46:07,017
he got out of the car, she got out of the car.

588
00:46:07,528 --> 00:46:10,759
She positioned herself
at the back of the automobile.

589
00:46:24,545 --> 00:46:27,844
Her original statement,
15 minutes after the killing...

590
00:46:28,249 --> 00:46:30,740
"a fur-lined collar on the killer."

591
00:46:30,952 --> 00:46:34,854
In court, "It might have been bushy hair."

592
00:46:35,590 --> 00:46:38,889
The kid testified that I had a Levi jacket on...

593
00:46:39,026 --> 00:46:42,462
which is the same type collar,
basically the same as this.

594
00:46:42,663 --> 00:46:46,531
He testified at pretrial
that he had a fur-lined parka.

595
00:46:46,634 --> 00:46:48,568
She's telling you who killed the man.

596
00:46:49,003 --> 00:46:52,097
One person in the car
with the fur-lined collar.

597
00:47:03,651 --> 00:47:07,109
Very convenient that the driver
happened to have bushy hair.

598
00:47:07,221 --> 00:47:10,384
All she's got to do
is look at a picture they took of me.

599
00:47:10,591 --> 00:47:12,821
But that is not her original statement.

600
00:47:12,894 --> 00:47:16,625
It's a hell of a big difference
from "fur-lined collar" to "bushy hair."

601
00:47:17,765 --> 00:47:18,891
It's crazy.

602
00:47:22,703 --> 00:47:25,171
She went through
two weeks Internal Affairs...

603
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,537
when she comes out,
her testimony changes.

604
00:47:27,608 --> 00:47:30,907
She goes in saying one thing,
she comes out saying another.

605
00:47:30,978 --> 00:47:32,707
Something happened. What?

606
00:47:32,780 --> 00:47:35,544
"We refreshed her memory."

607
00:47:42,590 --> 00:47:45,491
Friday afternoon,
I think it was Good Friday...

608
00:47:45,626 --> 00:47:48,618
we came back in the courtroom
that afternoon...

609
00:47:48,696 --> 00:47:51,392
and we were sort of elated
because we thought...

610
00:47:51,466 --> 00:47:53,161
"He's gonna walk."

611
00:47:54,202 --> 00:47:56,500
And there's nothing really in that evidence.

612
00:47:56,571 --> 00:47:59,802
There's just little David Harris,
and nobody believes him.

613
00:48:00,074 --> 00:48:03,168
And so we were very optimistic
about his chances...

614
00:48:03,244 --> 00:48:04,905
until we walked into the courtroom...

615
00:48:04,979 --> 00:48:08,176
and here were all these people
standing in front of the bench.

616
00:48:08,249 --> 00:48:09,580
Three of them, anyway.

617
00:48:09,884 --> 00:48:12,751
They were taking the oath
to be sworn as witnesses.

618
00:48:13,955 --> 00:48:17,584
Mrs. Miller got on the stand
that last afternoon.

619
00:48:18,192 --> 00:48:22,288
And she said,
"That's the man, I saw that man!

620
00:48:22,363 --> 00:48:25,821
"I saw Randall Adams' face
just right after...."

621
00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:29,893
She said, "I saw the gun
sticking out of the car...

622
00:48:29,971 --> 00:48:33,805
"when he shot that police officer.
And that's the man."

623
00:48:34,008 --> 00:48:36,533
And she waved her finger
right toward Randall Adams.

624
00:48:36,611 --> 00:48:38,875
She's the one that got him convicted.

625
00:48:40,047 --> 00:48:43,016
When I was a kid,
I used to want to be a detective...

626
00:48:43,084 --> 00:48:45,712
because I used to watch
all the detective shows on TV.

627
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:53,387
When I was a kid they used to show
these movies with Boston Blackie...

628
00:48:57,798 --> 00:48:59,698
and he always had a woman with him.

629
00:49:01,402 --> 00:49:04,166
I wanted to be a wife of a detective
or be a detective...

630
00:49:04,238 --> 00:49:06,263
so I always watched detective stories.

631
00:49:10,778 --> 00:49:14,145
I'm always looking because
I never know what might come up.

632
00:49:14,215 --> 00:49:15,648
Or how I could help.

633
00:49:15,716 --> 00:49:18,776
I like to help in situations like that.

634
00:49:19,654 --> 00:49:20,780
I really do.

635
00:49:24,725 --> 00:49:26,955
It's always happening to me,
everywhere I go...

636
00:49:27,028 --> 00:49:30,361
lots of times there's killings or anything.

637
00:49:30,464 --> 00:49:32,455
Even around my house. Wherever.

638
00:49:32,867 --> 00:49:37,236
I'm always looking or getting involved,
to find out who did it, what's going on.

639
00:49:45,513 --> 00:49:47,003
I listen to people.

640
00:49:47,081 --> 00:49:50,642
And I'm always trying to decide
who's lying, or who killed who...

641
00:49:51,452 --> 00:49:54,080
before the police do. See if I can beat them.

642
00:49:55,022 --> 00:49:56,011
Yeah.

643
00:50:08,669 --> 00:50:12,264
I was working at a gas station.
My husband and I both.

644
00:50:14,342 --> 00:50:16,606
We weren't getting along well at all.

645
00:50:17,712 --> 00:50:19,680
We were arguing back and forth.

646
00:50:19,747 --> 00:50:24,047
We didn't wanna go home, because
we'd rather talk it out in the car...

647
00:50:24,118 --> 00:50:25,847
than go home with the kids and fight.

648
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,353
Had to listen to them, too.

649
00:50:28,155 --> 00:50:31,921
So we were really arguing,
and decided to get something to eat.

650
00:50:33,027 --> 00:50:36,292
About that time,
a police came out of a restaurant...

651
00:50:36,364 --> 00:50:38,298
on the right hand side of the road...

652
00:50:39,133 --> 00:50:41,966
and he went to pull the man over.

653
00:50:50,544 --> 00:50:53,513
She turned around.
She was looking hard. She looked.

654
00:50:54,915 --> 00:50:57,577
I didn't think she seen the guy, but she did.

655
00:50:57,652 --> 00:51:01,213
Because I said, "What you looking at?"
I knew something had went wrong.

656
00:51:01,288 --> 00:51:03,313
She said, "You just shut up and drive."

657
00:51:05,926 --> 00:51:09,555
And I kept telling my husband:
"Slow down so I can see."

658
00:51:10,097 --> 00:51:13,066
He said, "Come on,
we're getting out of here.

659
00:51:13,134 --> 00:51:16,297
"You're too nosy.
You don't even know what's going on."

660
00:51:18,506 --> 00:51:22,442
I had no idea that somebody
was gonna get killed or shot.

661
00:51:23,277 --> 00:51:24,744
So I just drove on.

662
00:51:28,015 --> 00:51:31,815
He was one of these kind
that didn't like getting involved.

663
00:51:31,886 --> 00:51:35,686
He wanted to go on. He told me
to shut up and turn around. Don't look.

664
00:51:36,357 --> 00:51:38,484
I turned around and looked anyway.

665
00:51:43,998 --> 00:51:48,196
So we heard something,
like backfire or firecrackers.

666
00:51:49,103 --> 00:51:52,129
And so we drove over the bridge,
and I got to thinking.

667
00:51:52,206 --> 00:51:55,937
I said: "Em, there're no firecrackers
this time of the year."

668
00:52:00,481 --> 00:52:02,039
I was thinking to myself:

669
00:52:02,116 --> 00:52:05,608
"That couldn't be somebody shooting."

670
00:52:10,191 --> 00:52:12,887
It was real dark, and it was cold.

671
00:52:13,060 --> 00:52:15,153
It was hard to see in that car.

672
00:52:15,996 --> 00:52:19,955
But his window was down.
The driver's window was down.

673
00:52:21,402 --> 00:52:23,267
This is how I got such a good look.

674
00:52:30,978 --> 00:52:33,503
I really couldn't see anything inside.

675
00:52:33,581 --> 00:52:37,415
It was kind of...shadows on the window
and stuff.

676
00:52:37,485 --> 00:52:41,216
But when he rolled down the window,
what made his face stand out so.

677
00:52:41,288 --> 00:52:42,880
The car was dark blue.

678
00:52:47,561 --> 00:52:51,088
He had a beard, mustache...

679
00:52:51,265 --> 00:52:53,165
kind of dishwater-blond hair.

680
00:52:55,569 --> 00:52:59,369
But, like I said, when he was in court,
he sure looked a lot different.

681
00:53:01,075 --> 00:53:04,636
All I could just tell by this and this,
that it was him.

682
00:53:07,882 --> 00:53:11,579
I knew that there was some shots over there.

683
00:53:11,652 --> 00:53:13,813
But I didn't want to be involved in it...

684
00:53:13,888 --> 00:53:16,516
because West Dallas
is a high-crime neighborhood.

685
00:53:16,590 --> 00:53:17,887
One of the biggest.

686
00:53:17,958 --> 00:53:20,153
He was more scared of it than I was.

687
00:53:21,395 --> 00:53:24,296
But when you have black people like that...

688
00:53:24,365 --> 00:53:26,925
they don't like getting involved in nothing.

689
00:53:27,201 --> 00:53:28,862
That's just common.

690
00:53:28,936 --> 00:53:32,497
Like here, nobody wants
to see nothing or hear nothing.

691
00:53:33,374 --> 00:53:36,002
And they'll stay completely
in the background.

692
00:53:36,143 --> 00:53:38,805
That's why they were having
such a hard time there...

693
00:53:38,879 --> 00:53:41,279
finding anybody that would come forward.

694
00:53:41,382 --> 00:53:43,714
Because it was in
a totally black neighborhood.

695
00:53:47,922 --> 00:53:52,621
She believe in, see somebody done
something wrong she should tell it.

696
00:53:53,761 --> 00:53:55,752
'Cause she told on me...

697
00:54:00,668 --> 00:54:02,192
a couple of times...

698
00:54:03,470 --> 00:54:06,166
that I was hauling drugs out of El Paso.

699
00:54:07,041 --> 00:54:10,408
Called the sheriff down there,
going to make me open my trunk.

700
00:54:12,046 --> 00:54:15,072
So I ended up opening it,
but there was nothing in it.

701
00:54:20,988 --> 00:54:22,250
Good grief.

702
00:54:23,157 --> 00:54:26,957
She's a ho, but she find out
you done something, she turn you in.

703
00:54:34,101 --> 00:54:37,264
Mrs. Miller had testified at the trial...

704
00:54:37,338 --> 00:54:40,774
that she had gotten off early from her
gas station job...

705
00:54:40,841 --> 00:54:44,641
and gone down to pick up her husband
to help him with the bookwork.

706
00:54:44,712 --> 00:54:48,148
We found out that she was not doing
any bookkeeping for that station...

707
00:54:48,215 --> 00:54:51,946
because she had been fired
from her job two weeks earlier...

708
00:54:52,019 --> 00:54:54,010
for till-tapping, for stealing.

709
00:54:55,155 --> 00:54:58,522
The reason that they were
talking to the police at all...

710
00:54:58,759 --> 00:55:02,593
was that there'd been a three-day
running knife fight in their apartment.

711
00:55:02,663 --> 00:55:04,563
And they were all booked...

712
00:55:04,632 --> 00:55:07,533
for disorderly and drunk behavior in there...

713
00:55:07,601 --> 00:55:11,059
including assault with knives,
and all kinds of stuff.

714
00:55:11,438 --> 00:55:15,499
When they were at the police station,
they suddenly decided to volunteer...

715
00:55:15,576 --> 00:55:18,044
all this information
about what they had seen...

716
00:55:18,112 --> 00:55:20,444
about the police officer's killing.

717
00:55:22,116 --> 00:55:24,084
A woman called me at my home...

718
00:55:24,618 --> 00:55:26,279
and said that she knew this woman...

719
00:55:26,353 --> 00:55:29,720
who had testified and identified
Randall Adams from a passing vehicle.

720
00:55:29,790 --> 00:55:31,951
This woman had never told the truth
in her life.

721
00:55:36,764 --> 00:55:40,359
She also told me that she had tried
to call the D.A. during the trial...

722
00:55:40,434 --> 00:55:43,801
and give this evidence
that this woman was not believable.

723
00:55:43,871 --> 00:55:47,830
If their case hinged on this testimony,
this was not believable testimony.

724
00:55:48,142 --> 00:55:50,975
They were scum. They were just...

725
00:55:54,081 --> 00:55:55,275
actually scum.

726
00:55:55,482 --> 00:55:58,042
He was a black man
and she was a white woman.

727
00:55:58,485 --> 00:56:00,578
He came to work the day after.

728
00:56:01,922 --> 00:56:06,256
He told me about the policeman
that had gotten shot the night before.

729
00:56:06,327 --> 00:56:08,352
And I hadn't heard anything about it.

730
00:56:08,562 --> 00:56:11,554
And I thought
it was another one of these stories.

731
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:14,794
And he brings in these newspapers...

732
00:56:15,202 --> 00:56:20,071
and he says he didn't see a thing.
He couldn't see nothing, it was dark.

733
00:56:20,674 --> 00:56:23,370
Wheels started rolling
in his head about money.

734
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,511
That's when he got the idea.

735
00:56:29,883 --> 00:56:31,680
Let me put it in his words.

736
00:56:31,852 --> 00:56:34,616
For enough money, he would testify...

737
00:56:35,022 --> 00:56:37,252
to what they wanted him to say.

738
00:56:37,624 --> 00:56:40,559
He would say anything
they wanted him to say.

739
00:56:40,627 --> 00:56:44,154
Or he would see anything
that they wanted him to see.

740
00:56:44,999 --> 00:56:46,466
Those were his words.

741
00:56:49,937 --> 00:56:53,134
I was shocked that he did go ahead...

742
00:56:53,340 --> 00:56:56,537
and get up and tell
that he saw the actual shooting...

743
00:56:58,212 --> 00:57:01,010
and recognized the boy. Identified him.

744
00:57:02,449 --> 00:57:05,976
That's when I called Dennis White.
I told him, "That man's lying."

745
00:57:08,355 --> 00:57:11,347
Nobody has that good of an eyesight.

746
00:57:16,363 --> 00:57:19,890
From where the policeman was shot
and from where they were at...

747
00:57:22,436 --> 00:57:25,371
I doubt if you could have
even seen them with binoculars.

748
00:57:29,710 --> 00:57:31,143
I'm a salesman.

749
00:57:31,545 --> 00:57:34,105
And you develop something like total recall.

750
00:57:35,315 --> 00:57:38,250
I don't forget places, things...

751
00:57:39,887 --> 00:57:41,013
or streets.

752
00:57:41,922 --> 00:57:44,789
Because it's a habit,
something I just picked up.

753
00:57:44,858 --> 00:57:48,294
I just stare intensely at people
and try to figure them out.

754
00:57:50,064 --> 00:57:53,124
Being nosy, I just stare.

755
00:57:56,203 --> 00:57:58,603
I was leaving the Plush Pub one night...

756
00:57:59,473 --> 00:58:04,206
driving a 1977 Cadillac...

757
00:58:05,379 --> 00:58:07,210
heading west on Hampton.

758
00:58:07,614 --> 00:58:10,913
I noticed an officer had
two individuals pulled over...

759
00:58:11,385 --> 00:58:13,910
to the curb in a blue...

760
00:58:14,521 --> 00:58:16,421
some type of vehicle.

761
00:58:17,491 --> 00:58:19,425
It was a blue....

762
00:58:21,328 --> 00:58:24,786
It was a blue Ford. It was a blue something.

763
00:58:28,268 --> 00:58:32,102
The driver, I think, had long blond hair
and a moustache.

764
00:58:32,172 --> 00:58:35,039
And the other one
didn't have no hairs on his face.

765
00:58:39,746 --> 00:58:43,341
A person that is white
going through that area at night...

766
00:58:43,550 --> 00:58:46,917
he's a sore thumb,
he stick out for the first reason.

767
00:58:47,588 --> 00:58:50,557
And if they don't look right,
they're gonna stop you.

768
00:58:53,660 --> 00:58:56,356
The officer, he walked up to the vehicle.

769
00:58:58,198 --> 00:58:59,756
His car was behind....

770
00:58:59,833 --> 00:59:02,063
I don't know if it was behind or in front...

771
00:59:02,136 --> 00:59:05,594
but I know he had him pulled over,
and he was up to the car.

772
00:59:06,807 --> 00:59:09,571
I think he was up to the car. Let me think.

773
00:59:10,277 --> 00:59:12,336
Yeah, he was up to the car.

774
00:59:13,180 --> 00:59:16,149
As we was coming by
he had to have been up to the car.

775
00:59:24,258 --> 00:59:27,091
I didn't see no bullet. I didn't see no gunfire.

776
00:59:27,161 --> 00:59:28,822
Because I went on.

777
00:59:43,944 --> 00:59:47,971
We have three people
that testified and identified him...

778
00:59:48,448 --> 00:59:52,384
positively as being the driver
at the time that Wood was walking...

779
00:59:52,753 --> 00:59:54,277
right beside the car.

780
00:59:54,888 --> 00:59:58,324
So we know that he was the driver
from the witnesses...

781
00:59:58,492 --> 00:59:59,959
and we also know...

782
01:00:00,127 --> 01:00:03,119
that it was the driver
that shot Officer Wood...

783
01:00:03,564 --> 01:00:05,156
coming from his partner.

784
01:00:06,066 --> 01:00:08,057
We couldn't have made a case...

785
01:00:08,168 --> 01:00:11,069
with the voluntary statement
that we got from Adams.

786
01:00:11,238 --> 01:00:13,365
We had to rely on witnesses.

787
01:00:13,941 --> 01:00:15,602
And this is what we did.

788
01:00:16,910 --> 01:00:20,402
I always tried very hard,
every judge I know of does...

789
01:00:20,814 --> 01:00:23,009
to not show emotion on the bench.

790
01:00:23,350 --> 01:00:25,875
The reason, if you do show emotion...

791
01:00:26,086 --> 01:00:29,681
the jury might take it that
you're favoring one side or another.

792
01:00:30,224 --> 01:00:34,524
So you try to remain passive,
emotionless, objective.

793
01:00:34,895 --> 01:00:37,728
I do have to admit that in the Adams case...

794
01:00:37,798 --> 01:00:39,663
and I've never really said this...

795
01:00:39,733 --> 01:00:43,430
Doug Mulder's final argument
was one I'd never heard before.

796
01:00:43,503 --> 01:00:46,472
About the "thin blue line" of police...

797
01:00:46,540 --> 01:00:49,134
that separated the public from anarchy.

798
01:00:49,843 --> 01:00:53,802
I have to concede that there
my eyes kind of welled up...

799
01:00:54,014 --> 01:00:55,504
when I heard that.

800
01:00:55,682 --> 01:00:58,981
It did get to me emotionally,
but I don't think I showed it.

801
01:01:21,608 --> 01:01:23,303
In death penalty cases...

802
01:01:24,111 --> 01:01:26,671
we have a question, or we did at the time...

803
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,611
of whether or not that person
is of a dangerous mentality...

804
01:01:30,684 --> 01:01:33,278
and might be expected
to commit other crimes.

805
01:01:34,454 --> 01:01:36,183
To answer that question...

806
01:01:36,790 --> 01:01:41,386
the Dallas District Attorney sends
psychiatrists to the defendant's cell...

807
01:01:41,495 --> 01:01:43,656
to discover whether he is without remorse...

808
01:01:43,730 --> 01:01:47,359
and therefore is a dangerous
and psychopathic personality.

809
01:01:47,868 --> 01:01:50,359
Of course, in the instance of a person...

810
01:01:50,437 --> 01:01:54,703
who did not commit the crime,
they're not going to show remorse.

811
01:01:55,142 --> 01:01:58,305
There were two psychiatrists
that appeared again and again.

812
01:01:58,378 --> 01:02:01,313
Holbrook and Grigson, the "Killer Shrinks."

813
01:02:02,316 --> 01:02:06,548
There was certain criticism
directed against these two people...

814
01:02:09,690 --> 01:02:13,217
because, in effect, whenever they
showed up, the purpose of their visit...

815
01:02:13,293 --> 01:02:15,284
was to kill the defendant.

816
01:02:16,129 --> 01:02:19,860
It was April 15th, tax day.

817
01:02:21,368 --> 01:02:24,098
I think I was filling out my taxes at the time.

818
01:02:24,304 --> 01:02:25,931
Afraid I might be late.

819
01:02:27,708 --> 01:02:29,699
A guard walks up to the door...

820
01:02:30,043 --> 01:02:33,444
tells me, "There's someone out here
who wants to talk to you."

821
01:02:35,482 --> 01:02:37,882
I ask him who it was.
He said he didn't know...

822
01:02:37,951 --> 01:02:40,920
but the court ordered me to talk
to him. I said, "All right."

823
01:02:41,188 --> 01:02:44,817
And here come this real tall,
ostrich-looking dude.

824
01:02:45,492 --> 01:02:48,552
He introduced himself as Dr. Grigson.

825
01:02:49,963 --> 01:02:53,023
He pulled a pad out of his coat pocket...

826
01:02:53,100 --> 01:02:55,398
that had a line drawn across it.

827
01:02:57,304 --> 01:02:59,829
On this pad, on the upper half...

828
01:03:00,207 --> 01:03:02,505
he had six images.

829
01:03:03,310 --> 01:03:06,177
I will say a box, a square,
a circle with a diamond in it.

830
01:03:06,246 --> 01:03:08,714
I don't.... It's been awhile.

831
01:03:09,883 --> 01:03:13,580
He slides this piece of paper across
to me and he hands me a pencil.

832
01:03:13,887 --> 01:03:16,481
He says, "I'm going to get a cup of coffee.

833
01:03:16,923 --> 01:03:19,483
"Please copy what's on this piece of paper."

834
01:03:22,596 --> 01:03:25,190
I'm looking at this man.

835
01:03:26,166 --> 01:03:29,567
I said, "What? You want it copied
just the same way you did?

836
01:03:29,636 --> 01:03:32,764
"Or you want me to change them
around? What do you want me to do?"

837
01:03:32,839 --> 01:03:35,467
He said, "Just do
whatever you think you want to do."

838
01:03:35,542 --> 01:03:36,668
And he left.

839
01:03:38,078 --> 01:03:40,774
So on the bottom half
of this piece of paper...

840
01:03:41,014 --> 01:03:44,108
I made my boxes and X's...

841
01:03:44,184 --> 01:03:46,675
and zeros with diamonds in it.
Exactly like his.

842
01:03:49,923 --> 01:03:51,618
He asked me...

843
01:03:51,691 --> 01:03:55,650
"What's the meaning of
'A rolling stone gathers no moss?"'

844
01:03:56,830 --> 01:03:58,559
I'm looking at this man.

845
01:03:58,899 --> 01:04:02,232
I said, "Are you kidding? Is this
a joke? What are you doing?"

846
01:04:02,302 --> 01:04:05,897
He said, "No, I really want to know
your answer to that question."

847
01:04:07,274 --> 01:04:10,243
I said, well,
"A rolling stone gathers no moss."

848
01:04:10,310 --> 01:04:12,244
I said, "To me...

849
01:04:12,612 --> 01:04:16,742
"it would represent that a person
that doesn't stand still long enough...

850
01:04:17,451 --> 01:04:19,885
"it's kind of hard for people to cling to him.

851
01:04:20,187 --> 01:04:23,850
"If he keeps moving around,
it's hard to get close to him."

852
01:04:24,491 --> 01:04:25,890
He shook his head.

853
01:04:26,660 --> 01:04:30,323
He said, "What about 'A bird in
the hand is worth two in the bush"'?

854
01:04:31,131 --> 01:04:35,090
I said, "If you have a hold of
something, why give it up...

855
01:04:35,168 --> 01:04:38,365
"for a chance of getting something
that might be a little better?

856
01:04:38,438 --> 01:04:42,033
"It doesn't make sense. You've got
something good, why let go of it?

857
01:04:42,108 --> 01:04:44,508
"If you can get the other one,
get it if you can...

858
01:04:44,578 --> 01:04:48,105
"but don't let go of what you got
to try to get something else."

859
01:04:48,815 --> 01:04:51,511
He asked about my family.

860
01:04:51,718 --> 01:04:53,743
He asked about my background.

861
01:04:55,288 --> 01:04:56,550
And he left.

862
01:04:57,924 --> 01:05:00,688
Total time we had talked,
maybe 15, 20 minutes.

863
01:05:03,563 --> 01:05:08,023
Dr. Grigson was up there testifying
he would commit violent crimes...

864
01:05:08,101 --> 01:05:10,194
in the future if he was released.

865
01:05:10,504 --> 01:05:14,873
Grigson is known as "Dr. Death"
because he always testifies that way.

866
01:05:14,941 --> 01:05:16,966
In about 99% of the trials...

867
01:05:17,043 --> 01:05:20,274
that he's been a witness for the
prosecution, he always testifies...

868
01:05:20,347 --> 01:05:23,612
that they will commit
violent crimes in the future.

869
01:05:24,484 --> 01:05:27,885
You can't tell what
somebody's gonna do years from now.

870
01:05:28,488 --> 01:05:29,614
Not really.

871
01:05:31,024 --> 01:05:34,084
Except based on your past record,
which anybody can do.

872
01:05:38,798 --> 01:05:40,925
Randall never had any prior record.

873
01:05:41,568 --> 01:05:45,299
And as far as we know, he never had
any history of violence whatever.

874
01:05:47,574 --> 01:05:50,475
Grigson testified for...

875
01:05:51,244 --> 01:05:54,270
two and a half hours
about all these degrees he's got.

876
01:05:55,215 --> 01:05:58,378
He's been here, and he's been there,
and he's studied here.

877
01:05:59,452 --> 01:06:01,443
He called me Charlie Manson.

878
01:06:01,821 --> 01:06:04,016
He called me Adolf Hitler.

879
01:06:04,591 --> 01:06:06,957
He said I'm the type of personality...

880
01:06:07,594 --> 01:06:10,427
that can work all day and creep all night.

881
01:06:12,532 --> 01:06:14,796
He testified, Grigson...

882
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,941
that the future seriousness...

883
01:06:23,376 --> 01:06:25,037
of my mental state...

884
01:06:25,745 --> 01:06:28,009
would be such that if they released me...

885
01:06:28,081 --> 01:06:30,948
I would go crazy and
probably butcher half of Dallas County.

886
01:06:31,017 --> 01:06:33,645
Even though he talked to me 15 minutes...

887
01:06:34,254 --> 01:06:38,020
I have no prior convictions,
no prior arrests...

888
01:06:38,158 --> 01:06:40,922
I was nonviolent for 28 years.

889
01:06:40,994 --> 01:06:42,359
On one instance...

890
01:06:42,429 --> 01:06:45,455
and that's saying if I did this,
which I didn't...

891
01:06:45,999 --> 01:06:50,060
he's stating that, that's enough....
For the rest of my life, watch me.

892
01:06:50,136 --> 01:06:53,970
Don't ever turn your back on me.
And he talked to me 15 minutes.

893
01:06:56,576 --> 01:06:57,600
He's crazy.

894
01:07:02,148 --> 01:07:05,481
You can understand why a man
might steal if he needs money...

895
01:07:05,552 --> 01:07:08,180
to put food on the table.

896
01:07:08,722 --> 01:07:11,919
I can understand why a 17-year-old
boy who doesn't have a car...

897
01:07:11,992 --> 01:07:13,857
would steal one to ride around in.

898
01:07:13,927 --> 01:07:16,953
I can understand
why the heroin addict needs heroin.

899
01:07:17,397 --> 01:07:21,390
But it's very hard to understand
why anybody has to kill a police officer.

900
01:07:21,801 --> 01:07:23,598
It just doesn't have to be.

901
01:07:34,581 --> 01:07:37,072
When I'm asleep
and I close my eyes and think...

902
01:07:37,150 --> 01:07:38,447
"Why would he do it?

903
01:07:38,518 --> 01:07:40,986
"He had no background
that would lead to murder...

904
01:07:41,054 --> 01:07:43,147
"no reason to commit a murder."

905
01:07:43,356 --> 01:07:46,052
And I look at the facts of the case and say...

906
01:07:46,726 --> 01:07:50,025
David Harris knew the car was stolen,
knew the guns were there...

907
01:07:50,096 --> 01:07:51,586
knew the guns were stolen...

908
01:07:51,665 --> 01:07:53,633
was on a crime spree...

909
01:07:54,034 --> 01:07:57,697
had had a criminal record prior to
stealing this car and these guns.

910
01:07:57,771 --> 01:08:00,103
He was the one
that wanted to commit the murder...

911
01:08:00,173 --> 01:08:01,504
and get away from the scene.

912
01:08:01,574 --> 01:08:04,042
He was the one that,
after the murder was committed...

913
01:08:04,110 --> 01:08:07,273
went right back home
and bragged about it to his friends.

914
01:08:09,082 --> 01:08:11,073
I looked at all the evidence...

915
01:08:11,618 --> 01:08:15,076
and I found that I believed
that David Harris committed murder.

916
01:08:16,456 --> 01:08:18,822
The jury looked at the same evidence...

917
01:08:19,192 --> 01:08:21,990
and found they believed that
Randall Adams committed murder.

918
01:08:22,395 --> 01:08:24,625
And it was their verdict that counted.

919
01:08:49,789 --> 01:08:51,313
You have a D.A...

920
01:08:53,126 --> 01:08:55,151
he doesn't talk about...

921
01:08:55,328 --> 01:08:58,388
when they convict you
or how they convict you...

922
01:08:59,733 --> 01:09:02,725
he's talking about
how he's going to kill you.

923
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:06,061
He don't give a damn if you're innocent.

924
01:09:06,139 --> 01:09:09,540
He don't give a damn if you're guilty.
He's talking about killing you.

925
01:09:17,117 --> 01:09:19,813
You get numb. You get....

926
01:09:21,154 --> 01:09:25,113
It's like a bad dream. You want
to wake up, but you can't do it.

927
01:09:30,063 --> 01:09:33,658
Fifteen times, 20 times a day,
I hear this same story...

928
01:09:33,733 --> 01:09:36,361
about what happens
when a man is electrocuted.

929
01:09:38,805 --> 01:09:40,466
His eyeballs pop out.

930
01:09:40,707 --> 01:09:42,470
His fingernails pop out.

931
01:09:42,609 --> 01:09:44,133
His toenails pop out.

932
01:09:44,577 --> 01:09:47,045
He bleeds out of every orifice he's got.

933
01:09:53,787 --> 01:09:55,186
They don't care....

934
01:09:56,990 --> 01:09:58,321
They don't care.

935
01:09:59,826 --> 01:10:03,023
All they want to do is talk about
how they're going to kill you.

936
01:10:03,096 --> 01:10:06,463
That's the only thing that they cared
about and talked about.

937
01:10:08,868 --> 01:10:11,200
At that point, that's all they're wanting.

938
01:10:16,943 --> 01:10:20,174
I didn't have any idea
what happened to him.

939
01:10:22,115 --> 01:10:24,276
After I testified, I was gone.

940
01:10:25,685 --> 01:10:29,212
I never really concerned myself with it.

941
01:10:34,460 --> 01:10:36,951
Maybe I didn't want to know. I don't know.

942
01:10:38,298 --> 01:10:40,926
I didn't have any interest in knowing...

943
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,468
otherwise I might have tried to find out.

944
01:10:47,407 --> 01:10:49,398
Dennis filed the motion for a new trial...

945
01:10:49,475 --> 01:10:51,670
then we filed an amended motion
for a new trial.

946
01:10:51,744 --> 01:10:54,508
About 20 days later,
we were to have a hearing on it.

947
01:10:55,348 --> 01:10:58,374
Both Robert Miller and his wife
testified there.

948
01:10:58,451 --> 01:11:00,476
But we could not bring out the fact...

949
01:11:00,553 --> 01:11:04,182
that they had said that they were
gonna get that reward money...

950
01:11:04,257 --> 01:11:07,488
and that they didn't care
whether they saw anything or not...

951
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,051
but their car was too steamed up.

952
01:11:11,397 --> 01:11:13,456
We were not allowed to get any of that in...

953
01:11:13,533 --> 01:11:16,093
because it was held
that it was impeaching testimony...

954
01:11:16,169 --> 01:11:18,160
and therefore it came too late.

955
01:11:18,404 --> 01:11:21,066
We kept running into blank walls.

956
01:11:23,509 --> 01:11:26,000
A reporter from the Dallas Morning News...

957
01:11:26,112 --> 01:11:30,173
discovered that one week
after the trial was over with...

958
01:11:31,050 --> 01:11:34,747
the daughter of this woman
had a robbery case in this court.

959
01:11:34,821 --> 01:11:36,379
She offered her testimony...

960
01:11:36,456 --> 01:11:39,823
at a time when her daughter
was in danger of going to jail for life...

961
01:11:39,893 --> 01:11:41,986
and got her daughter out of jail.

962
01:11:42,128 --> 01:11:43,857
How can you believe her...

963
01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:47,363
when the very next week
the same judge dismisses that case?

964
01:11:50,837 --> 01:11:54,295
The Millers are the kind of people
that would do anything...

965
01:11:54,540 --> 01:11:56,838
if there was something to be gained...

966
01:11:57,543 --> 01:12:01,309
such as her daughter not being sent
to the penitentiary for armed robbery...

967
01:12:01,381 --> 01:12:02,848
or for money.

968
01:12:03,716 --> 01:12:07,777
When we went to court that day,
the District Attorney was hard-nosed.

969
01:12:07,854 --> 01:12:10,186
Wouldn't let me answer any questions.

970
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:14,226
He'd ask me questions,
but then he'd cut me off real short.

971
01:12:15,495 --> 01:12:18,225
And that's when he said something
about my big fat nose.

972
01:12:18,298 --> 01:12:20,789
If I'd kept my big fat nose
out of their business...

973
01:12:20,867 --> 01:12:22,892
the Millers would be better off.

974
01:12:25,071 --> 01:12:27,335
When I started to leave
out of the courtroom...

975
01:12:27,407 --> 01:12:29,841
he started laughing, like:

976
01:12:29,909 --> 01:12:32,377
"Didn't do you any good to get up here."

977
01:12:32,445 --> 01:12:35,175
It really didn't. Didn't help the guy at all.

978
01:12:43,256 --> 01:12:44,723
To the best of my recollection...

979
01:12:44,791 --> 01:12:47,123
the brief conversations
I have had with Mr. Adams...

980
01:12:47,193 --> 01:12:48,888
and they have been brief...

981
01:12:48,962 --> 01:12:52,489
I don't even recall ever asking him,
or my having told me...

982
01:12:53,099 --> 01:12:54,657
that he did not do it.

983
01:12:56,569 --> 01:12:59,834
Because, for my purposes,
representing him on appeal...

984
01:13:00,740 --> 01:13:02,435
it's totally irrelevant.

985
01:13:06,245 --> 01:13:08,873
When the Court of Criminal Appeals
of Texas...

986
01:13:10,583 --> 01:13:14,849
voted 9-0 against us,
I was a little upset about that.

987
01:13:14,921 --> 01:13:16,946
I felt we, A: should have won...

988
01:13:17,023 --> 01:13:19,491
B: certainly shouldn't have been
slapped so hard...

989
01:13:19,559 --> 01:13:21,652
with the unanimous decision against us.

990
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:27,493
I was with my family in an ice-cream parlor...

991
01:13:27,567 --> 01:13:31,162
and the judge and his family
happened to come at the same time.

992
01:13:31,704 --> 01:13:35,333
And he came over to me
and made the comment...

993
01:13:37,176 --> 01:13:41,340
"I see where the Court of Criminal
Appeals gave me an 'A'...

994
01:13:41,714 --> 01:13:43,306
"in the Adams case."

995
01:13:43,683 --> 01:13:45,878
Our highest state appellate court...

996
01:13:45,952 --> 01:13:50,013
the Court of Criminal Appeals
in Austin affirmed the case, 9-0.

997
01:13:51,124 --> 01:13:54,150
Then it was reversed by the
United States Supreme Court, 8-1...

998
01:13:55,962 --> 01:13:58,726
When the Appellate Court reverses a case...

999
01:13:59,365 --> 01:14:02,823
they are never saying
the trial judge was right or wrong.

1000
01:14:03,469 --> 01:14:06,029
They are saying
they disagree with the judge.

1001
01:14:07,273 --> 01:14:10,003
You can't, for instance,
in the Adams appeals...

1002
01:14:10,276 --> 01:14:14,076
say the appellate courts
were saying I was right or I was wrong.

1003
01:14:14,347 --> 01:14:17,373
After all, if in Austin...

1004
01:14:17,784 --> 01:14:20,844
in our state appeals court,
I was 9-0 correct...

1005
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,151
and in Washington, I was 1-8 incorrect.

1006
01:14:24,657 --> 01:14:27,592
If you tally all those votes, I come out 10-8.

1007
01:14:27,827 --> 01:14:29,658
Yet the case was reversed.

1008
01:14:32,031 --> 01:14:36,627
Eight justices of the Supreme Court
were the first people to agree with me.

1009
01:14:37,670 --> 01:14:41,606
They're the only people anywhere
that ever agreed about that statute...

1010
01:14:41,741 --> 01:14:44,209
were eight justices of the Supreme Court.

1011
01:14:46,512 --> 01:14:50,915
The Dallas Morning News
had a very nice front-page story...

1012
01:14:51,884 --> 01:14:53,977
either the same day...

1013
01:14:54,053 --> 01:14:57,545
or the day after the reversal was
announced by the Supreme Court...

1014
01:14:57,623 --> 01:15:00,683
in which Henry Wade, the District Attorney...

1015
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,851
vowed a retrial of Randall Dale Adams...

1016
01:15:04,730 --> 01:15:08,166
because there was no room
in his book for a cop-killer...

1017
01:15:08,234 --> 01:15:11,397
getting off with anything less
than the death penalty.

1018
01:15:12,338 --> 01:15:15,705
I took that to heart. I thought
I was going to get my chance.

1019
01:15:17,076 --> 01:15:20,568
For reasons
that were never really made public...

1020
01:15:21,914 --> 01:15:24,542
Mr. Wade requested
the governor to commute...

1021
01:15:24,817 --> 01:15:27,547
Mr. Adams' death penalty to life...

1022
01:15:28,521 --> 01:15:32,252
and that eliminated
the possibility of a retrial...

1023
01:15:32,325 --> 01:15:33,656
based on the reversal.

1024
01:15:36,195 --> 01:15:37,924
I was absolutely shocked.

1025
01:15:38,397 --> 01:15:39,887
I can't help but believe...

1026
01:15:39,966 --> 01:15:42,799
that some of the motivation
behind that decision...

1027
01:15:42,869 --> 01:15:44,359
was a fear that...

1028
01:15:45,171 --> 01:15:47,969
Adams may be vindicated at a retrial.

1029
01:15:49,142 --> 01:15:52,600
I just felt they prosecuted
the wrong person. I don't know why.

1030
01:15:53,312 --> 01:15:57,271
I felt that some policeman,
whether in Vidor or in Dallas...

1031
01:15:57,583 --> 01:16:02,418
made a decision to prosecute and set
the wheels of justice in motion...

1032
01:16:02,488 --> 01:16:06,254
in the wrong direction and they got
going so fast no one could stop them.

1033
01:16:06,325 --> 01:16:09,089
So I felt it was up to me
to stop them and I didn't.

1034
01:16:09,162 --> 01:16:13,292
I felt it was up to the Supreme Court
and they did what they could, but...

1035
01:16:13,366 --> 01:16:16,358
it's all gotten messed up and derailed again.

1036
01:16:18,037 --> 01:16:22,531
Since his trial, I have given up
my practice of criminal law.

1037
01:16:25,945 --> 01:16:27,640
I have not had a jury trial...

1038
01:16:27,713 --> 01:16:30,739
since I heard the verdict
of this jury in this case...

1039
01:16:30,883 --> 01:16:32,908
and don't intend to.

1040
01:16:34,820 --> 01:16:36,378
I just feel like...

1041
01:16:36,455 --> 01:16:40,687
I'll let other people
handle these problems for a while.

1042
01:16:42,862 --> 01:16:46,457
Because if justice can miscarry so badly...

1043
01:16:47,533 --> 01:16:49,467
I'd rather do something else.

1044
01:16:50,136 --> 01:16:53,469
Prosecutors in Dallas have said for years...

1045
01:16:54,173 --> 01:16:56,767
"Any prosecutor can convict a guilty man.

1046
01:16:57,443 --> 01:17:00,241
"It takes a great prosecutor
to convict an innocent man."

1047
01:17:03,749 --> 01:17:06,081
To this day, I think Mr. Mulder...

1048
01:17:06,319 --> 01:17:10,983
believes that the Adams conviction
was one of his great victories...

1049
01:17:12,024 --> 01:17:16,484
probably because of some reservations
he has about Adams' guilt.

1050
01:17:22,668 --> 01:17:25,637
I got a call one morning,
a lady here in Vidor...

1051
01:17:26,072 --> 01:17:28,802
had been hit over the head
with a rolling pin...

1052
01:17:29,976 --> 01:17:33,343
and the attacker thought
she'd been knocked unconscious...

1053
01:17:33,679 --> 01:17:35,237
when, in reality, she wasn't.

1054
01:17:35,314 --> 01:17:38,181
And she recognized the attacker
to be David Harris.

1055
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:43,982
He voluntarily came to the police station.

1056
01:17:45,091 --> 01:17:48,026
I told him,
"David, this girl knows who you are.

1057
01:17:48,094 --> 01:17:50,392
"I don't even have to tell you
I know the truth.

1058
01:17:50,463 --> 01:17:52,192
"You know I know the truth this time."

1059
01:17:52,265 --> 01:17:57,066
He said, "I was wrong.
I smoked marijuana, I was drinking.

1060
01:17:57,136 --> 01:18:00,196
"I don't know what got over me
but something just came over me."

1061
01:18:00,273 --> 01:18:04,141
But he forgot to mention one thing,
that he was only wearing underwear.

1062
01:18:06,846 --> 01:18:09,508
I felt as though
the attack was sexually oriented.

1063
01:18:09,582 --> 01:18:11,675
He never wanted to admit that...

1064
01:18:11,751 --> 01:18:14,982
and, as I recall,
he never really finally admitted it.

1065
01:18:15,054 --> 01:18:17,215
He'd just get to where he wouldn't deny it.

1066
01:18:17,690 --> 01:18:20,056
He posted his bond and went to Germany.

1067
01:18:21,961 --> 01:18:24,828
We had a crime
with basically the same M.O. as his...

1068
01:18:24,897 --> 01:18:28,924
and so it led me to want to check
and see if he was in town.

1069
01:18:29,302 --> 01:18:32,362
I contacted the Worldwide Military Locator...

1070
01:18:32,438 --> 01:18:34,838
to see if, through the military,
I could locate him.

1071
01:18:34,907 --> 01:18:37,933
I did, and found out
that he was in prison at the time.

1072
01:18:38,944 --> 01:18:40,775
He really didn't remember what happened.

1073
01:18:40,846 --> 01:18:42,939
He said he woke up in the stockade...

1074
01:18:43,015 --> 01:18:46,473
and he'd been told that he beat up
one of his ranking officers.

1075
01:18:46,719 --> 01:18:50,780
We had another occasion
to have a crime that fit his M.O. a lot...

1076
01:18:50,856 --> 01:18:53,791
so I started looking for him again,
and this time...

1077
01:18:53,859 --> 01:18:55,759
I found him in prison in California.

1078
01:18:55,828 --> 01:18:59,491
So I realized again that unfortunately,
he hadn't straightened up.

1079
01:18:59,565 --> 01:19:01,396
He was still having a lot of problems.

1080
01:19:10,009 --> 01:19:11,704
I was 16 years old.

1081
01:19:12,745 --> 01:19:16,875
I really didn't have no real dealings
with the court systems, etc.

1082
01:19:18,317 --> 01:19:20,512
Didn't know how they worked, really.

1083
01:19:20,853 --> 01:19:22,844
Didn't know much about the law.

1084
01:19:23,956 --> 01:19:25,287
Just a young, dumb kid.

1085
01:19:27,660 --> 01:19:31,323
Police give you the time of this
and the time this happened...

1086
01:19:31,397 --> 01:19:33,729
and you just correlate from those events.

1087
01:19:33,799 --> 01:19:36,893
You just estimate from that event
what time it was.

1088
01:19:37,737 --> 01:19:39,034
You don't know.

1089
01:19:39,572 --> 01:19:41,164
You're taking a guess.

1090
01:19:43,309 --> 01:19:46,836
Police tell you, "It was 12:30
when this crime happened.

1091
01:19:52,918 --> 01:19:55,045
"What time did you leave the movie?"

1092
01:19:55,621 --> 01:19:58,089
"I know it was somewhere around midnight.

1093
01:20:03,562 --> 01:20:05,826
"It might have been before then.
I don't know.

1094
01:20:05,898 --> 01:20:07,832
"I didn't have a watch on."

1095
01:20:19,578 --> 01:20:23,537
He went over my testimony with me
pretty extensively.

1096
01:20:25,351 --> 01:20:27,751
How I should answer certain questions...

1097
01:20:30,289 --> 01:20:31,688
things of this nature.

1098
01:20:31,757 --> 01:20:34,783
That's what you call "coaching the witness."

1099
01:20:35,327 --> 01:20:39,627
Let's get this evidence in a spectrum
where it's going to be most effective.

1100
01:20:46,505 --> 01:20:50,373
At the time, I didn't really ponder on it...

1101
01:20:55,881 --> 01:20:59,715
but he was deceiving the jury.
He wanted to deceive justice.

1102
01:21:00,186 --> 01:21:03,849
That's why I think
that statue with the scales...

1103
01:21:03,989 --> 01:21:07,254
Justice? What is she called?
I don't know what she's called.

1104
01:21:08,093 --> 01:21:09,788
She's got that blindfold on.

1105
01:21:10,663 --> 01:21:13,461
We don't see what goes on
behind the closed doors.

1106
01:21:14,934 --> 01:21:17,027
I had another woman in the car.

1107
01:21:18,037 --> 01:21:21,302
I didn't tell them about that.
My wife'd kill me.

1108
01:21:21,540 --> 01:21:25,943
She would've tore my head off if she
knew I was out with another woman.

1109
01:21:26,011 --> 01:21:27,569
Would you tell?

1110
01:21:28,547 --> 01:21:31,482
That's what happened.
I was trying to get her home.

1111
01:21:34,653 --> 01:21:36,917
The driver's side was down because...

1112
01:21:37,823 --> 01:21:41,088
the lady was a little sick.
She needed some air.

1113
01:21:41,627 --> 01:21:43,822
Because she was pretty drunk.

1114
01:21:52,071 --> 01:21:54,505
See, the Millers,
one is black and one is white.

1115
01:21:54,573 --> 01:21:58,236
They said I was going with....
The reason I was over that night...

1116
01:21:58,310 --> 01:22:00,574
I was over there
messing with this man's wife.

1117
01:22:00,646 --> 01:22:04,446
And I ain't never gone with her in
my life. She was too old and ugly.

1118
01:22:06,118 --> 01:22:09,554
Like I said, the D.A. will
put something into their mouth.

1119
01:22:09,622 --> 01:22:12,250
They could have
prefabricated the whole story.

1120
01:22:13,959 --> 01:22:15,187
They sure could have.

1121
01:22:15,261 --> 01:22:17,923
But what I saw is just what I saw.
That was it.

1122
01:22:18,030 --> 01:22:20,965
So if they got paid, they got paid for lying.

1123
01:22:24,570 --> 01:22:27,539
They already decided
what to do with you in the hall.

1124
01:22:27,973 --> 01:22:31,932
That's why they call it the Hall of
Justice, the scales are not balanced.

1125
01:22:32,211 --> 01:22:35,180
The scales are in the hall,
and they go up and down.

1126
01:22:35,247 --> 01:22:39,479
They might go up for you, favor one
way, they might go down against you.

1127
01:22:39,985 --> 01:22:44,012
So if the D.A. wants you to hang
15 or 20 years, you're hung.

1128
01:22:46,959 --> 01:22:50,258
I had all these charges
still pending in Orange County.

1129
01:22:54,333 --> 01:22:56,824
I could have been certified as an adult...

1130
01:22:57,836 --> 01:23:00,737
maybe given a life sentence. I don't know.

1131
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,400
I'm 16 years old. I know I don't want that.

1132
01:23:06,178 --> 01:23:09,773
That District Attorney told me,
"Don't worry about them charges."

1133
01:23:10,416 --> 01:23:14,648
"I'm gonna ask your....
Defense Attorney is gonna ask you...

1134
01:23:14,987 --> 01:23:17,387
"if you had any kind of deal...

1135
01:23:18,457 --> 01:23:20,652
"or anything of that nature...

1136
01:23:21,727 --> 01:23:24,628
"in exchange for your testimony
in this case...

1137
01:23:25,097 --> 01:23:27,122
"as relating to those charges.

1138
01:23:29,702 --> 01:23:33,433
"Don't answer that 'Yes.' Answer it 'No.'"

1139
01:23:38,611 --> 01:23:41,307
My husband,
he didn't get that good a look at him.

1140
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:48,017
He wasn't sure, because they put
a bunch of them that looked alike.

1141
01:23:49,555 --> 01:23:52,922
They had about three or four
in the lineup that had bushy hair...

1142
01:23:52,992 --> 01:23:56,951
but he had his combed down,
different to what it was in the killing.

1143
01:23:57,963 --> 01:24:00,431
I didn't pick him out right then...

1144
01:24:00,699 --> 01:24:02,963
because I picked out this bushy-haired man.

1145
01:24:06,438 --> 01:24:10,772
I understand one other witness
did pick out the man at the lineup.

1146
01:24:11,677 --> 01:24:13,736
I'm not sure, but I think he did.

1147
01:24:14,146 --> 01:24:17,513
Of course I picked out
Randall Adams just like that.

1148
01:24:19,551 --> 01:24:21,485
I don't know about the others.

1149
01:24:22,554 --> 01:24:25,079
Evidently they did at that time.

1150
01:24:48,147 --> 01:24:49,705
I just took off.

1151
01:24:50,883 --> 01:24:52,783
It's like, kids run away...

1152
01:24:52,851 --> 01:24:55,445
they don't think about
where they're going to stay...

1153
01:24:55,521 --> 01:24:58,820
how they're going to eat, all these things.

1154
01:25:02,461 --> 01:25:04,759
They had that roof over their head
all their lives.

1155
01:25:04,830 --> 01:25:07,094
They don't really think about those things...

1156
01:25:07,166 --> 01:25:10,533
till you get out there and you say,
"My stomach's growling now."

1157
01:25:12,271 --> 01:25:15,399
Or, "It's getting cold out here. It's raining."

1158
01:25:19,611 --> 01:25:21,340
There was ice on the road.

1159
01:25:21,580 --> 01:25:26,074
I remember there was a car coming
pretty fast up the road behind me...

1160
01:25:27,019 --> 01:25:29,749
and didn't see me or something...

1161
01:25:29,822 --> 01:25:33,383
or was in one lane and came into
the other lane and I was in that lane...

1162
01:25:33,459 --> 01:25:36,223
and tried to stop me.
He went off the side of the road.

1163
01:25:36,295 --> 01:25:38,661
I remember this car
went off the side of the road.

1164
01:25:38,731 --> 01:25:40,756
I'm just looking back.

1165
01:25:45,304 --> 01:25:46,828
I remember that.

1166
01:25:52,544 --> 01:25:55,707
I got a call at my house
about 3:30 one morning.

1167
01:25:56,415 --> 01:25:58,815
One of the patrolmen
in my department called...

1168
01:25:59,084 --> 01:26:02,645
and said, "We just arrested
this boy named David Harris...

1169
01:26:02,888 --> 01:26:06,654
"and he won't even tell us his name.
He said he wants to talk to you."

1170
01:26:06,725 --> 01:26:10,525
They told me something that really
made me interested. He'd been shot.

1171
01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:15,157
David had initially told me
that he had gone to a bar in Houston...

1172
01:26:16,769 --> 01:26:20,762
and was flirting with a young lady
and her boyfriend became upset...

1173
01:26:20,839 --> 01:26:24,832
and chased him out with a pistol,
shooting at him.

1174
01:26:27,713 --> 01:26:29,442
We knew that wasn't true.

1175
01:26:29,748 --> 01:26:32,239
I said, "David, I know you're lying to me.

1176
01:26:32,384 --> 01:26:36,377
"We go through this all the time,
all my dealings with you in the past.

1177
01:26:36,989 --> 01:26:38,923
"I don't know what you've done just yet.

1178
01:26:38,991 --> 01:26:40,219
"I know you were shot.

1179
01:26:40,292 --> 01:26:43,625
"I know you were shot doing something
that you shouldn't have been...

1180
01:26:43,695 --> 01:26:47,392
"we know you burglarized a gun shop.
We know you were driving drunk.

1181
01:26:47,666 --> 01:26:52,160
"Got witnesses who can identify you,
who can identify your truck."

1182
01:26:52,337 --> 01:26:55,568
I said, "You're caught. So tell the truth."

1183
01:26:55,941 --> 01:26:58,136
And David said, "Okay, I killed him."

1184
01:27:01,914 --> 01:27:05,873
Their home was entered while he
and his girlfriend were there alone.

1185
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:11,920
The man was sent into the bathroom
at gunpoint and told to stay there.

1186
01:27:14,693 --> 01:27:17,753
David took the girl
and was starting to leave.

1187
01:27:18,697 --> 01:27:21,530
The man exited the apartment with a gun.

1188
01:27:23,502 --> 01:27:25,936
The man fell to the ground,
or near the ground...

1189
01:27:26,004 --> 01:27:29,667
holding onto a pole there in the
parking lot of the apartment complex...

1190
01:27:29,741 --> 01:27:33,404
and these last, whether it be two,
three, or how many shots...

1191
01:27:33,478 --> 01:27:37,073
I don't know, were fired at point-blank
or near point-blank range.

1192
01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:44,747
David thought that the one
that was really at fault that night...

1193
01:27:44,823 --> 01:27:47,883
was the guy that got killed.
He said, "That guy's crazy.

1194
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,450
"He came after me with a gun."

1195
01:27:49,528 --> 01:27:52,088
I told him,
"David, you'd broken into his house...

1196
01:27:52,164 --> 01:27:55,224
"you abducted his girlfriend,
what was he supposed to do?"

1197
01:27:55,300 --> 01:27:57,962
He said,
"Man shouldn't come out with a gun.

1198
01:27:58,036 --> 01:28:00,436
"That dude's crazy.
He should have been killed."

1199
01:28:03,609 --> 01:28:06,077
When we went to retrieve the pistol...

1200
01:28:06,211 --> 01:28:08,076
I had to go into the water to get it.

1201
01:28:08,146 --> 01:28:11,047
It was a bayou and it was grassy,
snaky-looking area.

1202
01:28:11,116 --> 01:28:13,346
I was not real pleased
about being there myself...

1203
01:28:13,418 --> 01:28:16,910
but David enjoyed watching me have to
go down there and look for the gun.

1204
01:28:16,989 --> 01:28:20,356
I'd been searching several minutes,
he was up on the bridge...

1205
01:28:20,692 --> 01:28:22,683
and probably 25 feet from me...

1206
01:28:22,895 --> 01:28:27,161
directing me to where he thought
that the gun had landed in the water.

1207
01:28:30,235 --> 01:28:31,668
He was handcuffed.

1208
01:28:31,737 --> 01:28:34,535
Traffic would come by,
and he would turn around...

1209
01:28:34,706 --> 01:28:37,698
and show them his handcuffs
and holler at them, "Help me!

1210
01:28:37,776 --> 01:28:40,677
"The officials will throw me
in this water and drown me."

1211
01:28:41,079 --> 01:28:44,048
Just anything he could do
to make a joke and cut up out there.

1212
01:28:44,116 --> 01:28:46,175
He was just really having a good time.

1213
01:28:50,188 --> 01:28:51,712
The kid scares me.

1214
01:28:53,458 --> 01:28:57,519
To think that he could actually be
out there, walking the streets...

1215
01:28:58,096 --> 01:29:00,030
and Dallas County let him go.

1216
01:29:00,265 --> 01:29:02,790
The kid had seven crimes
coming down on him.

1217
01:29:04,770 --> 01:29:08,433
He had armed robberies.
He had firing on a peace officer.

1218
01:29:09,341 --> 01:29:12,310
He had breaking and enterings,
aggravated assaults.

1219
01:29:12,377 --> 01:29:14,277
God knows what all this kid had.

1220
01:29:14,346 --> 01:29:17,509
And Dallas County gives him
complete immunity for his testimony.

1221
01:29:17,582 --> 01:29:18,776
Just lets him walk.

1222
01:29:29,828 --> 01:29:32,023
My mom had a good phrase.

1223
01:29:32,197 --> 01:29:35,792
She said the first night
she pulled into Dallas, it was raining...

1224
01:29:35,901 --> 01:29:37,493
and that it was lightning.

1225
01:29:37,769 --> 01:29:39,999
And they're coming into Dallas...

1226
01:29:40,072 --> 01:29:43,735
and she said if there was ever
a hell on earth, it's Dallas County.

1227
01:29:46,778 --> 01:29:48,336
She's right.

1228
01:30:00,592 --> 01:30:05,188
You deal with people who you sense
bad vibrations, more or less.

1229
01:30:05,263 --> 01:30:08,562
You feel, this guy doesn't like me
anyway because I'm a policeman.

1230
01:30:08,633 --> 01:30:12,535
You can just kind of sense something.
Maybe I shouldn't even be saying it...

1231
01:30:12,604 --> 01:30:15,573
because police shouldn't
take these things to the bank.

1232
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:20,100
When you deal with people over
and over, you sense a lot of things.

1233
01:30:20,445 --> 01:30:24,245
Talking to David, you don't ever
feel hostile feelings coming from him.

1234
01:30:25,317 --> 01:30:27,512
I have never seen David any way...

1235
01:30:27,686 --> 01:30:31,122
other than cordial,
friendly to me as he could be:

1236
01:30:32,090 --> 01:30:35,753
"Yes, sir." "No, sir." Never disrespectful.

1237
01:30:36,762 --> 01:30:39,230
I've never seen the bad side.
I've seen the results...

1238
01:30:39,297 --> 01:30:42,061
and I've talked to him about it,
and he's aware of it.

1239
01:30:42,134 --> 01:30:44,227
He remembers the bad side.

1240
01:30:45,037 --> 01:30:48,165
But I've never seen him
committing a crime...

1241
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:51,232
or in a violent or volatile state.

1242
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,144
When his crimes were confessed to...

1243
01:30:57,549 --> 01:31:01,781
he seemed to feel better and do better
during those times.

1244
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:04,987
His parents would tell me
he would to do better at home...

1245
01:31:05,057 --> 01:31:08,151
he seemed to get along better
with the people in town...

1246
01:31:08,226 --> 01:31:09,921
his neighbors and friends.

1247
01:31:10,095 --> 01:31:12,086
But something happens to David...

1248
01:31:12,164 --> 01:31:16,260
I don't know what it is. I don't know
if anybody can put their finger on it.

1249
01:31:21,573 --> 01:31:24,440
But there's no other indication
of anything in the family...

1250
01:31:24,509 --> 01:31:28,445
that would lead you to believe
he had exposure to these activities.

1251
01:31:34,619 --> 01:31:38,248
David's got at least one other brother
and sister that I know of.

1252
01:31:38,423 --> 01:31:42,587
And he had one brother that drowned
numerous years ago.

1253
01:31:48,300 --> 01:31:51,326
I was 3 years old...

1254
01:31:52,003 --> 01:31:53,903
I had a 4-year-old brother...

1255
01:31:54,539 --> 01:31:57,702
and he drowned in 1963...

1256
01:31:59,077 --> 01:32:02,137
right after President Kennedy
was assassinated, I believe.

1257
01:32:02,214 --> 01:32:04,739
Sometime right after that,
during the summer.

1258
01:32:05,584 --> 01:32:08,815
We was living in Beaumont
on Harrison Street...

1259
01:32:10,555 --> 01:32:13,388
and my dad was working on his truck
out in the yard...

1260
01:32:14,059 --> 01:32:17,586
and mom was in the house
doing her housework or fixing dinner.

1261
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:22,431
Me and my brother, we had
one of these little blow-up pools...

1262
01:32:23,768 --> 01:32:25,599
and we were playing in that.

1263
01:32:26,638 --> 01:32:30,597
My dad was supposed to be watching
or keeping an eye on us or something.

1264
01:32:31,243 --> 01:32:33,609
My brother wandered off down the street...

1265
01:32:33,678 --> 01:32:36,408
and these people had a
swimming pool in their backyard...

1266
01:32:36,481 --> 01:32:39,211
and they were elderly people.
They never used the pool.

1267
01:32:39,284 --> 01:32:42,082
I guess it had a bunch of leaves
and stuff in it.

1268
01:32:45,257 --> 01:32:47,885
And he, evidently, fell in there and drowned.

1269
01:32:51,396 --> 01:32:55,628
I used to sit up in my room at night
and talk to him and he wasn't there.

1270
01:32:59,604 --> 01:33:04,166
So that might have been some kind of
a traumatic experience for me.

1271
01:33:06,344 --> 01:33:07,743
I guess my dad...

1272
01:33:11,416 --> 01:33:14,510
I don't know, maybe he couldn't
get rid of the responsibility...

1273
01:33:14,586 --> 01:33:17,487
or the guilt or something.
I don't know what it was.

1274
01:33:19,591 --> 01:33:22,651
I was there and I guess maybe
I reminded him of that...

1275
01:33:22,761 --> 01:33:24,729
all the time, growing up.

1276
01:33:27,065 --> 01:33:29,625
It was hard for me
to get any acceptance from him.

1277
01:33:31,770 --> 01:33:33,431
When my younger brother was born...

1278
01:33:33,505 --> 01:33:37,373
it was kind of like he was Daddy's
favorite or something, I don't know.

1279
01:33:40,345 --> 01:33:42,905
Everybody's life is going to take
some kind of path...

1280
01:33:42,981 --> 01:33:44,778
regardless of what happens.

1281
01:33:48,053 --> 01:33:51,420
I think maybe that a lot of the things
I did when I was younger...

1282
01:33:51,756 --> 01:33:56,159
was an attempt to get back at him
or something...

1283
01:33:56,828 --> 01:33:58,557
for the way he treated me.

1284
01:34:00,332 --> 01:34:02,960
But I wasn't doing nothing
but hurting myself.