1
00:01:14,777 --> 00:01:17,746
- Hey. Bob, what's up?
- Hi. Listen.
2
00:01:17,748 --> 00:01:21,149
According to an unconfirmed
report, David Wallace is dead.
3
00:01:21,151 --> 00:01:24,419
What? No. No, no, no.
4
00:01:24,421 --> 00:01:28,056
No, It must be some sort of a
college prank or something.
5
00:01:28,058 --> 00:01:33,127
Well, I thought if anybody knew whether
it was true or not, it'd be you.
6
00:01:36,866 --> 00:01:40,336
Now a remembrance of writer
David Foster Wallace.
7
00:01:40,338 --> 00:01:44,739
He was found dead, an apparent
suicide, on Friday night.
8
00:01:44,741 --> 00:01:47,809
Wallace's novel, Infinite
Jest, brought him fame...
9
00:01:47,811 --> 00:01:49,110
and a wide audience.
10
00:01:49,112 --> 00:01:51,678
Writer David Lipsky
has this appreciation.
11
00:01:54,984 --> 00:01:59,286
"To read David Foster Wallace was
to feel your eyelids pulled open."
12
00:02:00,821 --> 00:02:04,624
Some writers specialize in the
'away from home' experience.
13
00:02:04,626 --> 00:02:08,727
They have safaried, eaten
across Italy, covered a war.
14
00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:13,232
Wallace offered his alive self,
15
00:02:13,234 --> 00:02:15,234
cutting through
our sleepy aquarium,
16
00:02:15,236 --> 00:02:19,205
our standard TV, stores,
political campaigns.
17
00:02:21,474 --> 00:02:25,110
Writers who can do this...
like Salinger and Fitzgerald...
18
00:02:25,112 --> 00:02:27,880
forge an unbreakable bond
with readers.
19
00:02:27,882 --> 00:02:32,016
You didn't slip into the books
looking for a story, information,
20
00:02:32,018 --> 00:02:35,053
but for a particular
experience...
21
00:02:35,055 --> 00:02:38,222
the sensation,
for a certain number of pages,
22
00:02:38,224 --> 00:02:41,492
"of being David Foster Wallace."
23
00:02:45,897 --> 00:02:49,132
If anything, there was
a conscious attempt...
24
00:02:49,134 --> 00:02:51,701
to not give overt direction,
25
00:02:51,703 --> 00:02:54,304
although, of course,
you end up becoming yourself.
26
00:02:55,673 --> 00:02:57,640
Did they want you
to be a writer or no?
27
00:02:57,642 --> 00:02:59,909
No. I was gonna be... The big
thing, when I was little...
28
00:02:59,911 --> 00:03:02,478
I was... I was, like, a
really serious jock. Really?
29
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,547
Yeah. I played
citywide football as a kid.
30
00:03:04,549 --> 00:03:07,616
I was really big,
really strong as a kid.
31
00:03:07,618 --> 00:03:10,987
And then for four or five years, I was
gonna be, like, a pro tennis player.
32
00:03:10,989 --> 00:03:12,922
That was my great dream.
33
00:03:12,924 --> 00:03:14,623
Reading was just
this kind of fun,
34
00:03:14,625 --> 00:03:17,326
sort of weird thing
that I did on the side.
35
00:03:26,302 --> 00:03:28,003
"I didn't understand SoHo..."
36
00:03:28,005 --> 00:03:32,206
the warehouses, the old
buildings, the cobbled streets.
37
00:03:32,208 --> 00:03:36,143
It wasn't the Upper East Side,
and it was dirty.
38
00:03:37,712 --> 00:03:39,212
I felt marooned.
39
00:03:39,214 --> 00:03:42,950
Our mother had taken us off the track
of the nice life we'd been on.
40
00:03:42,952 --> 00:03:46,054
She'd moored us in a creepy cul-de-sac
with her art-world friends.
41
00:03:46,056 --> 00:03:48,756
None of the kids in my school
had parents in the art world.
42
00:03:48,758 --> 00:03:50,657
It made me feel different,
43
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:52,593
like there was something
I had to cover up."
44
00:03:54,296 --> 00:03:56,229
It was great.
Sorry I missed it.
45
00:03:56,231 --> 00:03:58,498
Don't worry about it.
46
00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,766
Hey. I heard you got
that Rolling Stone job.
47
00:04:00,768 --> 00:04:03,770
We'll see. I'm sort of on probation.
Good luck.
48
00:04:03,772 --> 00:04:06,372
Did you see Kirn's review
in New York magazine?
49
00:04:06,374 --> 00:04:08,640
The guy's been
fuckin' canonized.
50
00:04:08,642 --> 00:04:09,875
Sorry. Who's this?
51
00:04:09,877 --> 00:04:11,877
David Foster Wallace.
52
00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:14,346
"Next year's book awards have been
decided." Can you believe this?
53
00:04:14,348 --> 00:04:17,850
"The plaques and citations can now be
put into escrow." It's unbelievable.
54
00:04:17,852 --> 00:04:20,252
"With Infinite Jest,
by David Foster Wallace,
55
00:04:20,254 --> 00:04:24,723
a plutonium-dense, satirical quiz-kid opus
that runs to almost a thousand"... What?
56
00:04:24,725 --> 00:04:27,760
"A thousand pages,
not including footnotes,"
57
00:04:27,762 --> 00:04:29,561
the competition
has been obliterated.
58
00:04:29,563 --> 00:04:32,163
It's as though Paul Bunyan
had joined the NFL...
59
00:04:32,165 --> 00:04:34,166
or Wittgenstein
had gone onto Jeopardy!.
60
00:04:34,168 --> 00:04:37,335
"The novel is that colossally disruptive
and that spectacularly good."
61
00:04:37,337 --> 00:04:39,705
That's the fucking
opening paragraph.
62
00:04:39,707 --> 00:04:42,540
What if it actually
is that good?
63
00:04:43,542 --> 00:04:46,278
You might just have to read it.
64
00:04:57,557 --> 00:04:58,891
Shit.
65
00:04:58,893 --> 00:05:00,626
Good piece. Thanks a lot.
66
00:05:02,095 --> 00:05:03,830
Solid piece. I'm fine with it.
67
00:05:03,832 --> 00:05:06,033
But you gotta clear it
with Legal, okay?
68
00:05:08,267 --> 00:05:10,869
How many times have we interviewed
a writer in the last 10 years?
69
00:05:10,871 --> 00:05:13,705
Take a guess.
70
00:05:13,707 --> 00:05:15,039
Uh, how many?
71
00:05:15,041 --> 00:05:17,575
Zero. I checked.
72
00:05:17,577 --> 00:05:19,697
Maybe because Rolling Stone
doesn't interview writers.
73
00:05:20,678 --> 00:05:23,247
There hasn't been a writer
like this. Okay?
74
00:05:23,249 --> 00:05:26,650
Once in a generation maybe.
Hemingway, Pynchon.
75
00:05:26,652 --> 00:05:29,153
Let me have this story.
What story?
76
00:05:29,155 --> 00:05:32,222
He's finishing up a book tour,
and I want to go with him.
77
00:05:32,224 --> 00:05:33,857
That's not a story.
78
00:05:33,859 --> 00:05:37,393
He teaches at some small state
university somewhere in Illinois.
79
00:05:37,395 --> 00:05:39,361
Please, Bob. Send me there.
80
00:05:39,363 --> 00:05:43,332
This is the sort of stuff I should be
doing, not 500 words on boy bands.
81
00:05:44,967 --> 00:05:46,902
Talk to Jann.
82
00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:01,950
There better be a story there.
83
00:06:04,921 --> 00:06:07,422
There will be. There better.
84
00:07:39,492 --> 00:07:42,527
David, hi. It's David Lipsky.
Where are you?
85
00:07:42,529 --> 00:07:44,896
I think I may have made
a wrong turn somewhere.
86
00:07:44,898 --> 00:07:47,399
Let's see. I am on
County Highway 29...
87
00:07:47,401 --> 00:07:50,001
just across
from the Circus Video.
88
00:07:50,003 --> 00:07:51,937
How'd you get this number?
89
00:07:51,939 --> 00:07:55,640
Your publicist sent it
in her e-mail, just in case.
90
00:07:55,642 --> 00:07:58,777
You'd do me a favor
by losing it.
91
00:08:50,168 --> 00:08:52,936
Stay. Be calm. Be calm. Stay.
92
00:08:55,739 --> 00:08:58,241
Hey. You made it. Yeah.
93
00:08:58,243 --> 00:08:59,842
Dave. Dave Wallace.
94
00:08:59,844 --> 00:09:02,444
David Lipsky. Hi.
It's a pleasure.
95
00:09:02,446 --> 00:09:04,613
Likewise.
96
00:09:04,615 --> 00:09:07,048
Um, I'm sorry about
the, uh... the phone call.
97
00:09:07,050 --> 00:09:08,215
No, you're fine.
98
00:09:08,217 --> 00:09:12,119
It was 95% joke.
Right, right. Yeah.
99
00:09:12,121 --> 00:09:15,388
Sorry in advance about the dogs.
They'll be slobbering all over you.
100
00:09:15,390 --> 00:09:17,157
I don't mind at all.
I love dogs.
101
00:09:17,159 --> 00:09:20,293
Oh, yeah? You haven't met these guys yet.
No, I love 'em.
102
00:09:20,295 --> 00:09:23,697
Let's, uh... Oh, Jesus. Let's get inside.
It's cold.
103
00:09:23,699 --> 00:09:26,499
Boys. Get in there.
Thanks a lot.
104
00:09:26,501 --> 00:09:28,768
Ooh. Come on. Come on, buddy.
105
00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:30,903
Wait. I'm very glad to meet you too.
Good dog.
106
00:09:30,905 --> 00:09:33,506
Who's that? Oh, that's Jeeves.
107
00:09:33,508 --> 00:09:36,141
Hi. Yeah, that's
the Jeeve-meister.
108
00:09:36,143 --> 00:09:38,476
I got him 'cause he was so ugly.
Nobody else wanted him.
109
00:09:38,478 --> 00:09:40,145
Now he's, like,
a cover girl dog.
110
00:09:40,147 --> 00:09:42,480
And that's Drone.
That's my provisional dog.
111
00:09:42,482 --> 00:09:44,915
Why? Why provisional?
112
00:09:44,917 --> 00:09:47,285
He just showed up one day while
Jeeves and I were out jogging.
113
00:09:47,287 --> 00:09:49,887
The rest is history.
114
00:09:49,889 --> 00:09:52,757
I feel like I should
offer you tea or something.
115
00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:55,719
Yeah. Yeah, thanks. That'd be great.
Yeah? Okay.
116
00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,581
Nice view.
117
00:10:15,583 --> 00:10:18,983
Thank you. I can't
take credit for it.
118
00:10:18,985 --> 00:10:20,851
Huh.
119
00:10:23,555 --> 00:10:27,124
So, um, have you
always been unlisted?
120
00:10:28,427 --> 00:10:31,462
I had to do that recently. It
was getting kind of crazy.
121
00:10:31,464 --> 00:10:33,932
Oh. Because of...
Because of fans.
122
00:10:33,934 --> 00:10:36,467
I don't know if "fan" is
exactly the right word.
123
00:10:36,469 --> 00:10:40,138
I think what happened was I had forgotten to
tell my parents not to give my number out.
124
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:42,707
So it was people who had
tracked my parents down.
125
00:10:42,709 --> 00:10:45,911
I have this terrible problem. I really
hate to hurt people's feelings.
126
00:10:45,913 --> 00:10:49,080
Mmm, right. So I did
somethin' kind of cowardly.
127
00:10:49,082 --> 00:10:53,118
No. I don't think unlisting your
number is cowardly. Kind of is.
128
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,887
I changed my number so these
folks couldn't find me anymore.
129
00:10:55,889 --> 00:10:57,121
Right.
130
00:10:57,123 --> 00:10:59,557
There was this computer
operator from Vancouver.
131
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,091
He was living in a
basement or something.
132
00:11:01,093 --> 00:11:04,894
I found him very moving. He was
in terrible, terrible pain.
133
00:11:04,896 --> 00:11:06,829
What did he want from you?
134
00:11:06,831 --> 00:11:09,799
It's unclear. And when I
would, sorta like, ask him,
135
00:11:09,801 --> 00:11:12,968
that's when he would get angry,
and then it got scary.
136
00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:16,338
Right. What-What is this?
Who's the artist?
137
00:11:17,673 --> 00:11:20,241
That's my friend's daughter.
Calls me chicken head.
138
00:11:20,243 --> 00:11:21,977
I call her chicken head.
139
00:11:21,979 --> 00:11:24,612
It's her latest salvo
in the war.
140
00:11:24,614 --> 00:11:27,849
Um, that's funny.
Would you mind if I...
141
00:11:27,851 --> 00:11:30,384
No. Do what you gotta do.
Thank you.
142
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,429
Listen, before we start putting stuff
on tape, I need to ask you something.
143
00:11:42,431 --> 00:11:46,033
I need to know that anything that I
say five minutes later not to put in,
144
00:11:46,035 --> 00:11:48,301
that you're not
gonna put it in.
145
00:11:48,935 --> 00:11:50,936
Absolutely.
146
00:11:50,938 --> 00:11:54,040
Just given my level of fatigue
and my fuckup quotient lately,
147
00:11:54,042 --> 00:11:57,411
it's the only way I can see doin'
it and not... not going crazy.
148
00:11:57,413 --> 00:11:59,379
No. I completely understand.
149
00:12:01,349 --> 00:12:04,031
It's right back on, huh? Mmm.
150
00:12:05,118 --> 00:12:07,752
Uh, you agreed
to the interview.
151
00:12:13,792 --> 00:12:15,927
So this is your road, huh?
152
00:12:15,929 --> 00:12:17,762
Yeah, this is my road.
153
00:12:17,764 --> 00:12:20,464
You're gonna have to tell me where to turn.
I'm used to a grid system.
154
00:12:20,466 --> 00:12:22,300
This is all new
territory for me.
155
00:12:22,302 --> 00:12:25,436
Fair enough. You just go
straight for about a mile.
156
00:12:25,438 --> 00:12:27,539
There'll be signs for the
school on the right.
157
00:12:27,541 --> 00:12:30,308
Got it. Do you like
teaching there?
158
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:33,645
I do. Yeah, very much.
Which is what's so fucked.
159
00:12:33,647 --> 00:12:36,481
I feel so bad for these kids.
Why do you feel bad for them?
160
00:12:36,483 --> 00:12:38,983
They have the greatest writing
teacher in the world.
161
00:12:38,985 --> 00:12:42,120
If I was there, maybe.
The whole fuss...
162
00:12:42,122 --> 00:12:43,688
it's taken me out of school
for the past two weeks.
163
00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:45,424
And we gotta leave
again tomorrow.
164
00:12:45,426 --> 00:12:48,093
We gotta be up at the crack
of dawn to go to the airport.
165
00:12:48,095 --> 00:12:51,196
Oh, shit. Do we really? That's
what you signed on for, man.
166
00:12:51,198 --> 00:12:53,532
You're welcome to stick around and
write an article about my dogs.
167
00:12:53,534 --> 00:12:56,868
No, that's just fine. Might be
more interesting. I promise you.
168
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:59,938
Do yourself a favor. Don't
expect any fireworks in there.
169
00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:01,806
I'm sure you're gonna
be just fine.
170
00:13:01,808 --> 00:13:04,009
Campus-romance story.
171
00:13:04,011 --> 00:13:06,978
Ah! I gotta tell you guys,
172
00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:10,115
the average citizen is not gonna
find it that interesting.
173
00:13:10,117 --> 00:13:12,717
The great dread of creative
writing professors?
174
00:13:12,719 --> 00:13:17,355
"Their eyes met over the keg."
175
00:13:17,357 --> 00:13:19,757
I just want my narrator to be
funny and smart, you know?
176
00:13:19,759 --> 00:13:21,225
I know, I know. I get it.
177
00:13:21,227 --> 00:13:23,528
You want your narrator
to be funny and smart.
178
00:13:23,530 --> 00:13:25,096
Here's a tip.
179
00:13:25,098 --> 00:13:27,999
Have him say funny, smart things
some of the time.
180
00:13:28,001 --> 00:13:29,166
Thank you.
181
00:13:29,168 --> 00:13:30,700
You did a good job. Thank you.
182
00:13:30,702 --> 00:13:33,637
Um, all right, who's next?
Melissa.
183
00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:36,006
I'm normally a much better
teacher than that, I swear.
184
00:13:36,008 --> 00:13:38,575
I thought you were great and
that they obviously love you.
185
00:13:38,577 --> 00:13:39,944
Oh, yeah? Do you think?
186
00:13:39,946 --> 00:13:42,313
Yeah, come on,
you know they do.
187
00:13:42,315 --> 00:13:43,914
You hungry?
188
00:13:47,219 --> 00:13:48,852
And what can I
get you to drink?
189
00:13:48,854 --> 00:13:52,990
I'll just have, like, a
giant Diet Rite, please.
190
00:13:52,992 --> 00:13:54,925
You know what,
I'll have the same thing.
191
00:13:54,927 --> 00:13:58,129
I'll be right back with your pop.
Thanks, man.
192
00:13:59,598 --> 00:14:02,098
Oh. Uh, can I, uh...
193
00:14:03,968 --> 00:14:07,103
Do you mind if I... One second.
194
00:14:08,606 --> 00:14:12,107
Uh...
195
00:14:13,809 --> 00:14:15,944
You don't drink.
196
00:14:19,748 --> 00:14:21,549
Is that a question to me?
197
00:14:21,551 --> 00:14:23,817
No. No, it's an observation.
198
00:14:23,819 --> 00:14:27,221
Ah, I see. No, I know.
No, I do not drink.
199
00:14:27,223 --> 00:14:29,456
You can order whatever you want though.
Go right ahead.
200
00:14:29,458 --> 00:14:30,857
No, no. That's fine.
201
00:14:30,859 --> 00:14:33,760
I have a lot of friends who have
been through the program, so...
202
00:14:33,762 --> 00:14:36,129
They always tell me that
they're uncomfortable...
203
00:14:36,131 --> 00:14:38,564
with people drinking
right in front of them.
204
00:14:38,566 --> 00:14:40,433
So I just... Ah.
205
00:14:41,835 --> 00:14:46,272
I mean, out of respect, I...
I got what you got.
206
00:14:46,274 --> 00:14:50,742
I'm not any sort of authority
on any sort of program.
207
00:14:50,744 --> 00:14:53,212
From my very limited
outside understanding,
208
00:14:53,214 --> 00:14:55,214
for people who have been
in it a while,
209
00:14:55,216 --> 00:14:58,451
you could snort cocaine off the back
of your hand, they'd be all right.
210
00:14:58,453 --> 00:15:00,386
Right. Right. Right.
211
00:15:01,554 --> 00:15:03,556
You know what I would love to do, man?
What's that?
212
00:15:03,558 --> 00:15:07,192
I would love to do a profile on one of
you guys who's doin' a profile on me.
213
00:15:07,194 --> 00:15:09,495
That is interesting. Is
that too pomo and cute?
214
00:15:09,497 --> 00:15:10,996
Maybe for Rolling Stone.
215
00:15:10,998 --> 00:15:14,232
It would be interesting though.
You think?
216
00:15:14,234 --> 00:15:16,602
I'm sorry, man. What's wrong?
217
00:15:16,604 --> 00:15:19,871
It's just you're gonna go back to
New York and sit at your desk...
218
00:15:19,873 --> 00:15:22,708
and shape this thing
however you want.
219
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:24,876
To me, it's just
extremely disturbing.
220
00:15:24,878 --> 00:15:26,711
Why is it disturbing?
221
00:15:26,713 --> 00:15:30,582
Because I think I would like to shape the
impression of me that's coming across.
222
00:15:30,584 --> 00:15:33,017
I don't even know
if I like you yet.
223
00:15:33,019 --> 00:15:35,420
I'm so nervous about
whether you like me.
224
00:15:35,422 --> 00:15:36,988
Here you go.
225
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:38,856
Your food will be out soon.
Can I get you anything else?
226
00:15:38,858 --> 00:15:41,326
No, we're fine. Thank you.
Thanks.
227
00:15:41,328 --> 00:15:43,261
Um...
228
00:15:43,263 --> 00:15:45,697
What's this story about
in your mind?
229
00:15:45,699 --> 00:15:47,699
What does Jann want?
230
00:15:47,701 --> 00:15:50,268
Just what it's like to be the most
talked about writer in the country...
231
00:15:50,270 --> 00:15:53,038
or that sort of thing. Right.
232
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,306
Which makes it sound...
233
00:15:55,308 --> 00:15:57,242
How do you learn
to do this stuff?
234
00:15:57,244 --> 00:15:59,944
Do what? The interviewing.
235
00:15:59,946 --> 00:16:02,079
Does one go
to interviewing school?
236
00:16:02,081 --> 00:16:04,549
Yes, I went to eight years
of interviewing school.
237
00:16:04,551 --> 00:16:06,083
So you got a master's? I did.
238
00:16:06,085 --> 00:16:10,588
Um, no. No, I'm... I'm a writer.
239
00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:12,690
Uh, okay. Great. Yeah.
240
00:16:12,692 --> 00:16:15,059
I mean I write fiction
as well. I...
241
00:16:16,195 --> 00:16:17,862
I just had a novel
published actually.
242
00:16:17,864 --> 00:16:20,531
Great. Yeah.
243
00:16:20,533 --> 00:16:22,133
What's... What's that called?
244
00:16:22,135 --> 00:16:24,935
The Art Fair. The Art Fair.
Great.
245
00:16:27,506 --> 00:16:30,975
And I had a collection
published a few years ago, so...
246
00:16:30,977 --> 00:16:32,810
You're, like,
a nervous guy, huh?
247
00:16:32,812 --> 00:16:36,080
No, no. No, I'm okay. How are you?
I... 'Cos I'm terrified.
248
00:16:36,082 --> 00:16:37,981
Are you? Yes. You're
not alone in this.
249
00:16:37,983 --> 00:16:39,550
Okay. We'll do this together.
250
00:16:39,552 --> 00:16:42,185
No, I think it's gonna
be a lot of fun. Yeah.
251
00:16:42,187 --> 00:16:44,687
The thing about the tour
is, yes,
252
00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:47,323
I would like to get laid
off of it a couple of times.
253
00:16:47,325 --> 00:16:49,858
People come up.
They kind of, like, slither up.
254
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:52,027
And it seems like...
I don't know.
255
00:16:52,029 --> 00:16:54,295
What I want is not to have
to take any action.
256
00:16:54,297 --> 00:16:57,499
What kind of action? I don't
want to have to say, like,
257
00:16:57,501 --> 00:16:59,267
"Do you want to come
back to the hotel?"
258
00:16:59,269 --> 00:17:01,936
I want them to say, "I am
coming back to your hotel."
259
00:17:01,938 --> 00:17:05,473
"Where is your hotel?" That would
be easier for you, wouldn't it?
260
00:17:05,475 --> 00:17:08,509
I can't stand to look like I'm
actively trading off this sexually.
261
00:17:08,511 --> 00:17:10,845
Which, of course,
I'd be happy to do.
262
00:17:10,847 --> 00:17:13,347
I think, in retrospect, I'm
probably very lucky that I didn't.
263
00:17:13,349 --> 00:17:15,049
Lucky? Why?
264
00:17:15,051 --> 00:17:17,618
It just would have made me feel lonely.
You know?
265
00:17:17,620 --> 00:17:19,086
Lonely? How so?
266
00:17:19,088 --> 00:17:21,122
It wouldn't have had
anything to do with me.
267
00:17:21,124 --> 00:17:23,724
I think it would have
been... just...
268
00:17:23,726 --> 00:17:26,426
Your fame? Yeah. Whatever.
269
00:17:26,428 --> 00:17:27,961
Your fame. You can say it.
Fine, fine.
270
00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:30,296
You're famous. Okay, whatever.
271
00:17:30,298 --> 00:17:33,333
You are. Except, though, if they're
responding to your work...
272
00:17:33,335 --> 00:17:34,600
and your work
is really personal,
273
00:17:34,602 --> 00:17:36,969
then reading you is another
way of meeting you.
274
00:17:36,971 --> 00:17:38,870
Isn't that right?
275
00:17:38,872 --> 00:17:40,405
That's so good. Thank you.
276
00:17:40,407 --> 00:17:42,740
This piece will be excellent
if it's mostly you.
277
00:17:42,742 --> 00:17:45,376
Talk all you want, man. Save
me a whole lot of trouble.
278
00:17:54,485 --> 00:17:57,620
Wow! So this is what
a real car feels like.
279
00:17:57,622 --> 00:18:00,656
The one I got is like riding
around on a power lawn mower.
280
00:18:00,658 --> 00:18:02,691
You know?
281
00:18:02,693 --> 00:18:05,327
Do you think being handsome has
anything to do with your success?
282
00:18:06,862 --> 00:18:08,596
- What?
- No, you're photogenic.
283
00:18:08,598 --> 00:18:10,832
You look good in your author's photo.
Come on.
284
00:18:10,834 --> 00:18:15,070
You have to come put me down if
I even start thinking that way.
285
00:18:15,072 --> 00:18:17,572
Thinking what way? What,
about how books are sold?
286
00:18:17,574 --> 00:18:21,276
Like, "Do you want to do
a Rolling Stone interview?"
287
00:18:21,278 --> 00:18:24,045
Do you want to do X?
Do you want to do Y?
288
00:18:24,047 --> 00:18:28,417
It really worries me that what I'm
doing right now is like being a whore.
289
00:18:28,419 --> 00:18:30,652
A whore? Hey. Why?
290
00:18:30,654 --> 00:18:34,723
Cashing in somehow or like getting
some little celebrity for myself...
291
00:18:34,725 --> 00:18:38,593
that will, from some bizarre set of
misunderstandings, sell more copies of the book.
292
00:18:38,595 --> 00:18:42,064
- Mmm, okay.
- You can quote that if you want.
293
00:18:42,066 --> 00:18:44,733
Preferably in a context where I
don't sound like a total dweeb.
294
00:18:44,735 --> 00:18:47,069
Don't worry about it.
295
00:18:47,071 --> 00:18:50,539
By the way, are they gonna send
Annie Leibovitz to take pictures?
296
00:18:50,541 --> 00:18:54,075
I'm not sure. Possibly.
See how the story turns out.
297
00:18:56,244 --> 00:18:58,479
I know. You're a really
good-looking guy.
298
00:18:58,481 --> 00:19:01,215
We should have 'em photograph
you, say you're me.
299
00:19:01,217 --> 00:19:04,185
Maybe I'll finally end up
getting laid.
300
00:19:11,227 --> 00:19:12,727
You're gonna drink all that?
301
00:19:12,729 --> 00:19:15,130
I don't want to have to come back.
I wish they had a case.
302
00:19:15,132 --> 00:19:18,366
Actually,
that's a good idea. Um...
303
00:19:21,904 --> 00:19:23,804
Get the marshmallow one
too, please.
304
00:19:23,806 --> 00:19:26,173
All right. One?
305
00:19:26,175 --> 00:19:27,875
Two. Two. Of course.
306
00:19:27,877 --> 00:19:29,710
Why would I get one?
One second. Okay.
307
00:19:29,712 --> 00:19:32,112
Okay, all right. I think that's enough.
Come on.
308
00:19:32,114 --> 00:19:35,483
Hey, Kim. Hi. We'll
take all of these.
309
00:19:35,485 --> 00:19:38,552
- Please, let me.
- No, you don't have to pay for my shit.
310
00:19:38,554 --> 00:19:41,676
No, no. It's not coming out of my pocket.
I have an expense account.
311
00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:45,359
If you insist, yeah. Yeah.
312
00:19:53,002 --> 00:19:54,935
If we ate like this
all the time... Yeah?
313
00:19:54,937 --> 00:19:57,405
What would be wrong with that?
What would be wrong?
314
00:19:57,407 --> 00:19:59,540
Besides your teeth falling out
and getting really fat?
315
00:19:59,542 --> 00:20:01,441
It's got none of the
nourishment of real food,
316
00:20:01,443 --> 00:20:04,745
but it is real pleasurable masticating
and swallowing this stuff.
317
00:20:04,747 --> 00:20:06,780
Yes, it is. It's like seductive
commercial entertainment.
318
00:20:06,782 --> 00:20:10,017
Mmm, but what saves us is that most
entertainment is not very good.
319
00:20:10,019 --> 00:20:13,387
But what about good seductive commercial
entertainment like... like Die Hard?
320
00:20:13,389 --> 00:20:15,857
First Die Hard? Great film.
No, it's a brilliant film.
321
00:20:15,859 --> 00:20:18,659
The best. So good. Absolutely.
322
00:20:18,661 --> 00:20:21,529
I think, if the book
is about anything,
323
00:20:21,531 --> 00:20:24,498
it's about the question
of "Why?" Right.
324
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,533
"Why am I watching
all this shit?"
325
00:20:26,535 --> 00:20:30,070
It's not about the shit. It's about me.
Right. Yeah.
326
00:20:30,072 --> 00:20:32,372
So why am I doing it?
327
00:20:32,374 --> 00:20:34,775
And what's so American
about what I'm doing?
328
00:20:36,744 --> 00:20:41,047
The minute I start talking about this
stuff, it sounds, number one, very vague,
329
00:20:41,049 --> 00:20:42,915
and number two,
really reductive.
330
00:20:42,917 --> 00:20:45,351
I don't think you're being
vague or reductive at all.
331
00:20:45,353 --> 00:20:48,220
Okay, because I don't have
a diagnosis...
332
00:20:48,222 --> 00:20:51,457
or a system of prescriptions
as to why we...
333
00:20:51,459 --> 00:20:54,092
When I say "we," I mean
people just like you and me...
334
00:20:54,094 --> 00:20:55,993
mostly white,
upper middle class,
335
00:20:55,995 --> 00:20:59,464
obscenely well educated,
doing really interesting jobs,
336
00:20:59,466 --> 00:21:02,733
sitting in really expensive
chairs watching the best,
337
00:21:02,735 --> 00:21:06,670
most sophisticated electronic
equipment money can buy.
338
00:21:06,672 --> 00:21:10,474
Why do we feel so empty
and unhappy?
339
00:21:10,476 --> 00:21:13,810
Right. It's kind of like Hamlet
except with channel surfing.
340
00:21:13,812 --> 00:21:16,814
I'm not saying that watching TV
is bad or a waste of your time...
341
00:21:16,816 --> 00:21:20,885
any more than, like, masturbation
is bad or a waste of your time.
342
00:21:20,887 --> 00:21:23,020
It's a pleasurable way
to spend a few minutes.
343
00:21:23,022 --> 00:21:24,855
But if you're doing it
20 times a day...
344
00:21:24,857 --> 00:21:27,758
if your primary sexual relationship
is with your own hand,
345
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:28,658
something is wrong.
346
00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:30,993
Except at least
with masturbation,
347
00:21:30,995 --> 00:21:32,794
some action is being
performed, right?
348
00:21:32,796 --> 00:21:35,697
Isn't that... That's better.
349
00:21:35,699 --> 00:21:38,599
Okay, you could make me look like
a real dick if you print this.
350
00:21:38,601 --> 00:21:42,437
No, I'm not going to, but, if
you can, speak into the mike.
351
00:21:42,439 --> 00:21:46,141
Yes, you're performing muscular movements
with your hand as you're jerking off.
352
00:21:46,143 --> 00:21:48,143
But what you're really doing,
I think,
353
00:21:48,145 --> 00:21:50,813
is you're running a movie
in your head.
354
00:21:50,815 --> 00:21:54,349
You're having a fantasy relationship
with somebody who is not real...
355
00:21:54,351 --> 00:21:56,751
strictly to stimulate
a neurological response.
356
00:21:56,753 --> 00:22:00,222
So as the Internet grows
in the next 10, 15 years...
357
00:22:00,224 --> 00:22:04,026
and virtual reality pornography
becomes a reality,
358
00:22:04,028 --> 00:22:08,130
we're gonna have to develop some
real machinery inside our guts...
359
00:22:08,132 --> 00:22:10,133
to turn off
pure, unalloyed pleasure.
360
00:22:10,135 --> 00:22:14,036
Or, I don't know about you, I'm
gonna have to leave the planet.
361
00:22:14,038 --> 00:22:17,373
'Cause the technology is just
gonna get better and better.
362
00:22:17,375 --> 00:22:19,908
And it's gonna get
easier and easier...
363
00:22:19,910 --> 00:22:22,645
and more and more convenient
and more and more pleasurable...
364
00:22:22,647 --> 00:22:26,615
to sit alone
with images on a screen...
365
00:22:26,617 --> 00:22:29,318
given to us by people who do not
love us but want our money.
366
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,354
And that's fine in low doses,
367
00:22:32,356 --> 00:22:34,857
but if it's the basic
main staple of your diet,
368
00:22:34,859 --> 00:22:36,458
you're gonna die.
369
00:22:37,293 --> 00:22:39,461
Well, come on.
370
00:22:39,463 --> 00:22:43,965
In a meaningful way,
you're going to die.
371
00:22:47,636 --> 00:22:51,006
Hey. Can I try that actually?
372
00:22:51,008 --> 00:22:54,842
Yeah. It takes some getting used to.
Go ahead.
373
00:22:54,844 --> 00:22:56,176
Thanks.
374
00:22:56,178 --> 00:22:57,980
It goes right there.
Yeah, I know.
375
00:23:01,015 --> 00:23:03,483
Mmm. That's, um...
376
00:23:05,752 --> 00:23:08,019
Actually, can I... Can I use
your bathroom for a second?
377
00:23:08,021 --> 00:23:09,721
I believe it's unoccupied.
378
00:23:18,464 --> 00:23:19,730
Mm!
379
00:24:00,077 --> 00:24:02,411
Hey. Hey.
380
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,847
So, do you not
have a television?
381
00:24:05,849 --> 00:24:08,984
I do not have a TV, no.
How come?
382
00:24:08,986 --> 00:24:11,853
Because if I had a TV, I
would watch it all the time.
383
00:24:11,855 --> 00:24:14,255
Ah. I don't even know if I
would watch it all the time,
384
00:24:14,257 --> 00:24:16,124
but it would be on
all the time.
385
00:24:16,126 --> 00:24:19,427
My version of a fireplace... some sort
of source of warmth and light...
386
00:24:19,429 --> 00:24:21,830
in the corner, I'd
occasionally get sucked into.
387
00:24:21,832 --> 00:24:24,866
Did you watch a lot of TV
when you were a kid?
388
00:24:24,868 --> 00:24:27,336
Yeah, a lot. You?
389
00:24:27,338 --> 00:24:31,006
I, uh... Me? Yeah.
No, I did. I did.
390
00:24:32,776 --> 00:24:37,312
But I moved in with a woman, and
she grew up without a television.
391
00:24:37,314 --> 00:24:40,282
So living with her for the
first month was like torture.
392
00:24:40,284 --> 00:24:43,718
But then I realized it was
probably the best thing for me.
393
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,955
Did you guys stay together?
It was complicated.
394
00:24:46,957 --> 00:24:48,957
Why?
395
00:24:48,959 --> 00:24:52,161
Well, I was seeing this woman,
and she moved to LA,
396
00:24:52,163 --> 00:24:55,831
so we theoretically broke up.
397
00:24:55,833 --> 00:24:58,167
Then I started seeing
this other woman.
398
00:24:58,169 --> 00:24:59,966
But then I started seeing
the first woman again.
399
00:24:59,992 --> 00:25:01,103
We tried the bi coastal thing.
400
00:25:01,105 --> 00:25:04,674
And let's just say the second woman
didn't take to that very well.
401
00:25:04,676 --> 00:25:07,009
It's so much easier
having dogs.
402
00:25:07,011 --> 00:25:08,644
I'm sure it is.
403
00:25:08,646 --> 00:25:11,179
Yes, you don't get laid, but
you don't have that feeling...
404
00:25:11,181 --> 00:25:13,481
like you're hurting their
feelings all the time.
405
00:25:13,483 --> 00:25:14,649
Right, right, right.
406
00:25:14,651 --> 00:25:16,450
I'd like to emphasize...
407
00:25:16,452 --> 00:25:19,486
strictly platonic relationship
with the dogs.
408
00:25:19,488 --> 00:25:22,690
I'll make sure to highlight
that in the article, sure.
409
00:25:22,692 --> 00:25:25,491
Uh, so, you're not
dating anybody then?
410
00:25:27,027 --> 00:25:29,261
Seriously dating?
No. I'm out of practice.
411
00:25:29,263 --> 00:25:30,929
I wouldn't even know
what to say.
412
00:25:33,099 --> 00:25:34,999
Do you want to have kids?
413
00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:38,369
I think someday I would.
You? Yeah.
414
00:25:38,371 --> 00:25:41,740
Yeah, I think, eventually. Yeah.
415
00:25:41,742 --> 00:25:45,344
I think that writing books is a
little bit like raising children.
416
00:25:45,346 --> 00:25:47,245
You have to be careful though.
417
00:25:47,247 --> 00:25:50,047
It's okay to take pride
in the work,
418
00:25:50,049 --> 00:25:53,985
but I think it's bad to want the
glory to reflect back on you.
419
00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:56,955
It sounds like you're worried
about having children.
420
00:25:59,191 --> 00:26:01,425
I don't know that I want to say
anything more about that.
421
00:26:01,427 --> 00:26:03,428
If that's okay. That's fine.
422
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:06,431
It's fine for us to joke about
getting laid on tour and stuff,
423
00:26:06,433 --> 00:26:09,835
but that's... that's about it.
424
00:26:09,837 --> 00:26:12,771
I just thought it'd be nice
to have someone...
425
00:26:12,773 --> 00:26:14,673
to be sharing all this
wonderful stuff with.
426
00:26:14,675 --> 00:26:17,042
That's it. Yeah.
427
00:26:17,044 --> 00:26:20,979
I'd really wished that I was
married the past couple weeks.
428
00:26:20,981 --> 00:26:22,580
You have?
429
00:26:24,082 --> 00:26:27,018
Yeah. Nobody else
really gets it, you know?
430
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:29,720
Your friends who aren't
in the writing biz are just...
431
00:26:29,722 --> 00:26:32,924
They're awed by
your picture in Time.
432
00:26:32,926 --> 00:26:34,859
Your agent and editor
are good people,
433
00:26:34,861 --> 00:26:37,628
but they have
their own agendas.
434
00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:41,366
It's fun talking to you about it,
but you've got your own agenda too.
435
00:26:41,368 --> 00:26:41,955
That's true.
436
00:26:41,981 --> 00:26:44,302
Certainly a set of interests
that diverge from mine.
437
00:26:44,304 --> 00:26:46,171
That's true.
438
00:26:46,173 --> 00:26:50,676
So, yeah, it would be nice to have
somebody that you shared a life with...
439
00:26:50,678 --> 00:26:55,079
and allowed yourself to be happy and...
confused with.
440
00:26:55,081 --> 00:26:57,715
Somebody to call when you
get back to the hotel.
441
00:27:00,685 --> 00:27:03,988
I got a question.
Why aren't you married, at 30?
442
00:27:05,657 --> 00:27:08,125
Why aren't you married, at 34?
443
00:27:08,127 --> 00:27:09,627
You first. Okay.
444
00:27:09,629 --> 00:27:12,730
Uh... I don't know.
445
00:27:12,732 --> 00:27:15,467
I just think it's hard to
cast that role, you know,
446
00:27:15,469 --> 00:27:19,938
to fill it when you know it's
gonna be like 30 to 40 years.
447
00:27:21,274 --> 00:27:23,708
To find someone who, whatever
mental landscape you're in,
448
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:25,376
they're gonna be in it too.
449
00:27:25,378 --> 00:27:29,280
You have to find someone who will
fit any landscape you can imagine.
450
00:27:29,282 --> 00:27:30,614
I don't know.
451
00:27:30,616 --> 00:27:32,984
I can't put it
as well as you can,
452
00:27:32,986 --> 00:27:35,853
you know, about
these mental landscapes.
453
00:27:35,855 --> 00:27:38,857
I just... I know that
I'm hard to be around.
454
00:27:38,859 --> 00:27:41,326
- No, I don't think so.
- I am.
455
00:27:41,328 --> 00:27:43,060
Why do you say that?
456
00:27:45,631 --> 00:27:47,965
When I want to be alone,
like, to write,
457
00:27:47,967 --> 00:27:49,766
I really do want to be alone.
458
00:27:49,768 --> 00:27:53,203
I think if you dedicate
yourself to anything,
459
00:27:53,205 --> 00:27:56,674
one facet of that is that it makes
you very, very self-conscious.
460
00:27:56,676 --> 00:27:59,309
And you end up using people...
461
00:27:59,311 --> 00:28:01,811
wanting them around
when you want them around...
462
00:28:01,813 --> 00:28:03,079
and then sending them away.
463
00:28:03,081 --> 00:28:05,214
But that comes
with the territory...
464
00:28:05,216 --> 00:28:08,383
if you're gonna be a writer...
that kind of self-consciousness.
465
00:28:08,385 --> 00:28:09,852
There's good self-consciousness.
466
00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:13,388
Then there's also
a toxic, paralyzing,
467
00:28:13,390 --> 00:28:16,992
"raped by psychic bedouins" kind
of self-consciousness. Right.
468
00:28:16,994 --> 00:28:19,627
That is scary.
Yeah, that sounds worse.
469
00:28:19,629 --> 00:28:23,311
Can you do me a favor? Could you tell
me about that poster over there?
470
00:28:24,333 --> 00:28:28,070
Alanis? Yeah.
471
00:28:28,072 --> 00:28:31,139
I don't know. I guess I'm susceptible
like everybody else. Why?
472
00:28:31,141 --> 00:28:34,843
I mean, she's pretty, but
it's the only thing in there.
473
00:28:34,845 --> 00:28:38,346
She's pretty in a very sloppy,
very human way.
474
00:28:38,348 --> 00:28:42,650
She's got this squeaky,
orgasmic quality to her voice.
475
00:28:43,518 --> 00:28:46,053
You know, here's what it is.
476
00:28:46,055 --> 00:28:49,389
A lot of women in magazines are
pretty in a way that is not erotic...
477
00:28:49,391 --> 00:28:51,925
because they don't look like
anybody that you know.
478
00:28:51,927 --> 00:28:53,526
That's true.
479
00:28:53,528 --> 00:28:56,830
You can't imagine them putting a
quarter in a parking meter...
480
00:28:56,832 --> 00:28:58,798
or, like, eating
a bologna sandwich.
481
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,833
Whereas, Alanis Morissette,
482
00:29:00,835 --> 00:29:05,672
I can and have imagined her just, like,
chowing down on a bologna sandwich.
483
00:29:05,674 --> 00:29:09,243
I find her absolutely riveting. -Nice. How did you
get into her? How did you get into her music?
484
00:29:09,245 --> 00:29:12,045
I was listening to this
cheesy Bloomington radio,
485
00:29:12,047 --> 00:29:13,980
and "I Want to Tell You"
came on.
486
00:29:13,982 --> 00:29:16,650
"You Oughta Know." But right.
487
00:29:16,652 --> 00:29:18,318
I don't know what that means.
488
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,055
I Want to Tell You is a book
that O.J. Simpson wrote.
489
00:29:21,057 --> 00:29:24,658
Ah! That's a different thing.
Yeah.
490
00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:27,628
Although, wouldn't it be funny if O.J.
Simpson sang "You Oughta Know"...
491
00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,263
and Alanis Morissette wrote a book
about not killing two people?
492
00:29:30,265 --> 00:29:33,200
Oh, man.
493
00:29:33,202 --> 00:29:35,635
I tell you, if this whole
fuss, whatever,
494
00:29:35,637 --> 00:29:38,905
could get me a five-minute
cup of tea with her...
495
00:29:38,907 --> 00:29:41,240
Yo. Why don't you
put out feelers...
496
00:29:41,242 --> 00:29:43,275
and see if she'd be
willing to meet you?
497
00:29:43,277 --> 00:29:46,312
Are you serious? I would never do that.
Why not?
498
00:29:46,314 --> 00:29:49,148
I would be terrified.
Why, would you do that?
499
00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:51,951
If I were you, yeah,
I would do that.
500
00:29:51,953 --> 00:29:54,787
A date with Alanis Morissette?
What would I say?
501
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:58,657
"Hello, Miss Morissette.
What is it like to be you?"
502
00:29:58,659 --> 00:30:00,291
"I don't know.
503
00:30:00,293 --> 00:30:02,694
Shut up and get
the fuck away from me."
504
00:30:02,696 --> 00:30:04,230
That's that beautiful
squeaky voice you like.
505
00:30:04,256 --> 00:30:05,163
That's right. And orgasmic.
506
00:30:05,165 --> 00:30:06,964
But you would go
if she called you.
507
00:30:06,966 --> 00:30:09,600
"Hey, Dave, I'm at the Drake
in Chicago. Let's have tea."
508
00:30:09,602 --> 00:30:11,702
This is gonna look ridiculous.
509
00:30:11,704 --> 00:30:14,271
It's gonna look like
I'm using Rolling Stone...
510
00:30:14,273 --> 00:30:15,806
as a vehicle to, like...
511
00:30:15,808 --> 00:30:18,241
- It's been used for worse.
- Yes, I would do it.
512
00:30:18,243 --> 00:30:20,944
Okay? I would do it in a heartbeat.
Good.
513
00:30:20,946 --> 00:30:24,380
Perspiring heavily
the whole way,
514
00:30:24,382 --> 00:30:26,850
the whole time shoving Certs
into my mouth. Exactly.
515
00:30:26,852 --> 00:30:30,119
Freaking out. It would cause me
a week of absolute trauma.
516
00:30:30,121 --> 00:30:32,889
And, yes, I would do it
in a... in a heartbeat.
517
00:30:32,891 --> 00:30:34,724
Okay? Are you happy?
We got that?
518
00:30:34,726 --> 00:30:36,358
It's on the record. Okay.
519
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,228
Um...
520
00:30:39,230 --> 00:30:40,829
I like... Eh.
521
00:30:44,166 --> 00:30:46,935
I like talking to you
about this stuff.
522
00:30:46,937 --> 00:30:49,203
But we should...
We gotta be up early.
523
00:30:49,205 --> 00:30:51,172
Really? What time is it?
It's, like, 10:00.
524
00:30:51,174 --> 00:30:53,807
I think it's, like, 11:30,
dick brain.
525
00:30:53,809 --> 00:30:58,612
Oh, shit. Jesus. I am so sorry.
526
00:30:58,614 --> 00:31:00,180
I totally lost track of time.
527
00:31:00,182 --> 00:31:02,750
What time do you want me
to pick you up tomorrow?
528
00:31:02,752 --> 00:31:04,384
Where you going?
529
00:31:04,386 --> 00:31:06,352
There's a motel down the road.
I think it's a Days Inn.
530
00:31:06,354 --> 00:31:09,489
Oh, no, you don't want
to stay there. Trust me.
531
00:31:11,959 --> 00:31:15,395
I got a guest-roomish place
you could stay in.
532
00:31:15,397 --> 00:31:16,996
No, I don't want to impose.
533
00:31:16,998 --> 00:31:19,031
Don't thank me. It's not much.
534
00:31:19,033 --> 00:31:20,867
Okay.
535
00:31:22,469 --> 00:31:24,670
No, it's great. Thank you.
536
00:31:24,672 --> 00:31:26,539
I should probably clean some
of that shit off the bed.
537
00:31:26,541 --> 00:31:28,340
Right. Maximum comfort.
538
00:31:28,342 --> 00:31:29,641
Thanks.
539
00:31:29,643 --> 00:31:31,909
Definitely want
to change that sheet.
540
00:31:31,911 --> 00:31:34,712
No, it's fine. Thank you.
541
00:31:34,714 --> 00:31:37,314
Just throw it wherever.
Okay. Here you go.
542
00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:40,117
Grab one side of this.
All right, thanks.
543
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:43,620
And you want to change the
pillows or just keep them?
544
00:31:43,622 --> 00:31:47,124
I don't think you're going
to catch anything incurable.
545
00:31:47,126 --> 00:31:50,394
That's all right.
I got penicillin.
546
00:31:50,396 --> 00:31:52,295
Okay. You're good? Yeah.
547
00:31:52,297 --> 00:31:54,830
Do me a favor. Leave the
door open for the dogs.
548
00:31:54,832 --> 00:31:56,532
They like to wander
from room to room at night.
549
00:31:56,534 --> 00:31:59,134
If the door's closed, they'll eat it
to get through it if they have to.
550
00:31:59,136 --> 00:32:01,236
- Are you serious?
- Yeah.
551
00:32:01,238 --> 00:32:04,907
Okay, yeah. Okay. Good night.
552
00:32:04,909 --> 00:32:07,429
Good night. Thanks. Cool.
553
00:32:44,686 --> 00:32:47,421
Oh. All right.
554
00:32:50,859 --> 00:32:54,494
Hey, buddy. Okay. How are ya?
555
00:32:54,496 --> 00:32:57,865
Okay. Hey. Oh. All right.
556
00:32:57,867 --> 00:33:00,567
Psst! Okay.
557
00:33:02,738 --> 00:33:05,571
All right. Thanks. Okay.
558
00:33:07,106 --> 00:33:10,242
All right. Okay.
Have a good night.
559
00:33:13,812 --> 00:33:15,446
Okay.
560
00:33:38,302 --> 00:33:40,336
Oh. Hey.
561
00:33:41,938 --> 00:33:43,705
If you want any,
there's coffee.
562
00:33:43,707 --> 00:33:45,628
I don't need caffeine
to wake up.
563
00:33:47,009 --> 00:33:50,177
Oh, but, uh, cigarettes?
564
00:33:50,179 --> 00:33:52,461
Brothers of the lung. Mmm.
565
00:33:54,448 --> 00:33:57,083
Do you want to split this with me?
It's my last one.
566
00:33:58,518 --> 00:34:01,019
Uh, no, thanks.
567
00:34:07,526 --> 00:34:09,094
Just... Here.
568
00:34:10,796 --> 00:34:14,666
Mi Pop-Tart es su Pop-Tart.
569
00:34:14,668 --> 00:34:17,535
Thanks. Try it.
570
00:34:17,537 --> 00:34:19,069
It's delicious, right?
571
00:34:19,071 --> 00:34:22,139
It's really good.
572
00:34:40,226 --> 00:34:42,160
There's a Mitsubishi plant.
573
00:34:42,162 --> 00:34:43,728
Then there's a lot
of farm support.
574
00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:46,465
There's Ro-Tech,
Anderson Seeds.
575
00:34:46,467 --> 00:34:49,768
What are you doing here? I mean,
why are you not in New York?
576
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:54,006
Every time I go to New York,
I get caught up in this...
577
00:34:54,008 --> 00:34:58,711
There's this enormous hiss of egos at
various states of inflation and deflation.
578
00:35:00,081 --> 00:35:04,150
Yeah. Hey, um, sorry.
I gotta do this.
579
00:35:04,152 --> 00:35:06,252
Okay.
580
00:35:06,254 --> 00:35:09,522
So, I gotta ask.
What is with the bandanna?
581
00:35:10,757 --> 00:35:12,591
What? What do you mean?
582
00:35:12,593 --> 00:35:17,028
No, people think it's your way of
connecting to a younger reading audience.
583
00:35:18,263 --> 00:35:20,130
Is that what people think?
584
00:35:20,133 --> 00:35:23,000
I don't see many Gen Xers
wearing them. Geez.
585
00:35:23,002 --> 00:35:25,068
I kinda wish you hadn't
brought this up, man.
586
00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:27,738
I'm sorry about that. Why?
587
00:35:27,740 --> 00:35:30,574
Because now I'm worried
it's going to seem intentional.
588
00:35:30,576 --> 00:35:32,643
Like, if I don't wear it,
am I not wearing it...
589
00:35:32,645 --> 00:35:35,712
because I'm bowing to other people's
perception that it's a commercial choice?
590
00:35:35,714 --> 00:35:38,549
Or do I do what I wanna do even though
it's perceived as a commercial choice?
591
00:35:38,551 --> 00:35:41,818
It's like a whole crazy circle
I gotta go around in now.
592
00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:43,753
Come on. Sorry.
593
00:35:43,755 --> 00:35:46,389
When did you start
wearing them?
594
00:35:46,391 --> 00:35:48,991
In Tucson. It was, like,
a hundred degrees all the time.
595
00:35:48,993 --> 00:35:52,628
I would perspire so heavily, drip
into the electric typewriter.
596
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:55,297
I was nervous I was gonna
give myself a shock.
597
00:35:55,299 --> 00:35:59,435
And then, at some point, I realized
I felt better with them on.
598
00:36:00,970 --> 00:36:03,939
I know that it's a security blanket
for me whenever I feel nervous...
599
00:36:03,941 --> 00:36:07,375
or, like, I gotta
keep myself together.
600
00:36:07,377 --> 00:36:10,045
Makes me feel kind of creepy,
people view it as an affectation...
601
00:36:10,047 --> 00:36:11,279
or a trademark or something.
602
00:36:11,281 --> 00:36:13,147
It's more of a foible,
603
00:36:13,149 --> 00:36:16,251
the recognition of a weakness that I'm
kind of afraid my head is gonna explode.
604
00:36:16,253 --> 00:36:17,785
Right.
605
00:36:23,125 --> 00:36:25,292
Your parents are both academics.
Is that right?
606
00:36:26,161 --> 00:36:28,795
My dad, philosophy.
My mom, English.
607
00:36:28,797 --> 00:36:30,863
So. You?
608
00:36:30,865 --> 00:36:33,466
Me? Yeah.
609
00:36:33,468 --> 00:36:37,203
My dad is in advertising,
and my mom's a painter.
610
00:36:37,205 --> 00:36:40,207
When they split up, I moved
in with her to SoHo,
611
00:36:40,209 --> 00:36:41,541
and my brother
moved in with my dad.
612
00:36:41,543 --> 00:36:43,843
Sounds like
there's a story there.
613
00:36:43,845 --> 00:36:46,646
Oh, there is.
I... I just wrote it.
614
00:36:46,648 --> 00:36:50,417
What was it like, you know, growing
up in a house divided like that?
615
00:36:50,419 --> 00:36:53,787
Hey. Who's interviewing who?
616
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:00,460
How old were you when you
started writing fiction?
617
00:37:00,462 --> 00:37:02,129
Like, 21. Something like that.
618
00:37:02,131 --> 00:37:03,964
Really? Never before?
619
00:37:03,966 --> 00:37:07,000
I think I started a World War
II novel when I was nine.
620
00:37:07,002 --> 00:37:09,436
Did you? That's very ambitious.
Thank you.
621
00:37:09,438 --> 00:37:12,605
It was so good, some of my best work.
Come on.
622
00:37:12,607 --> 00:37:15,275
It was about people with
hyper developed skills and powers...
623
00:37:15,277 --> 00:37:17,510
going to invade Hitler's bunker.
624
00:37:17,512 --> 00:37:18,878
Very nice.
625
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,315
Then, in college, I wrote a couple
of papers for other people.
626
00:37:22,317 --> 00:37:25,397
Really? People paid you to
write their papers for them?
627
00:37:26,453 --> 00:37:28,854
I wouldn't put it that coarsely.
How would you...
628
00:37:28,856 --> 00:37:32,024
There was a complicated
system of rewards. I see.
629
00:37:32,026 --> 00:37:33,725
I would read two or three
of their papers...
630
00:37:33,727 --> 00:37:35,793
and get a sense of what
their music was like.
631
00:37:35,795 --> 00:37:38,563
At some point, I realized
I'm really good at this.
632
00:37:38,565 --> 00:37:41,165
I'm like a strange kind
of forger.
633
00:37:41,167 --> 00:37:43,200
I can sort of sound
like anybody.
634
00:37:43,202 --> 00:37:46,137
It's kind of scary. Um...
635
00:37:46,139 --> 00:37:48,772
Odds are I'm gonna want
to interview your parents.
636
00:37:51,009 --> 00:37:53,744
What for? Just
biographical stuff.
637
00:37:53,746 --> 00:37:55,345
Right.
638
00:37:56,448 --> 00:37:58,715
I hereby request
that you don't.
639
00:37:58,717 --> 00:38:01,551
Really? They're very
private people.
640
00:38:01,553 --> 00:38:04,922
And so I would have a problem with that.
Mmm, okay.
641
00:38:04,924 --> 00:38:07,124
So, no, you may not.
642
00:38:08,260 --> 00:38:10,861
Okay. I may not.
643
00:38:17,835 --> 00:38:21,338
Now boarding,
Flight 54 to Minneapolis.
644
00:38:23,374 --> 00:38:25,655
Ticket. Thank you.
645
00:38:30,614 --> 00:38:33,216
Crap jobs? Oh, man.
646
00:38:33,218 --> 00:38:37,386
I was a security guard at a software
company for three and a half months.
647
00:38:37,388 --> 00:38:41,557
Really? I walked around in
this polyester uniform...
648
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:44,427
under these fluorescent
lights, twirling a baton,
649
00:38:44,429 --> 00:38:46,862
checking in on the walkie
every 10 minutes.
650
00:38:46,864 --> 00:38:48,630
"All clear at this cubicle."
651
00:38:48,632 --> 00:38:52,101
It was like every bad '60s novel
about meaningless authority.
652
00:38:52,103 --> 00:38:55,771
You're thinking, "My God, I had two books
come out in my early 20s, and here I am."
653
00:38:55,773 --> 00:38:59,509
No. No, as a matter of fact, one of
the things I liked about that job...
654
00:38:59,511 --> 00:39:01,911
is that I walked around not thinking.
Really?
655
00:39:01,913 --> 00:39:06,616
Mmm, in a very, like, "Huh. A
ceiling tile" sort of way.
656
00:39:06,618 --> 00:39:08,578
And what about after the
security guard thing?
657
00:39:08,604 --> 00:39:09,620
Was there anything else?
658
00:39:09,622 --> 00:39:11,788
Oh, this is the worst. What?
659
00:39:11,790 --> 00:39:13,656
Get this down. I am.
660
00:39:13,658 --> 00:39:16,005
I was a towel boy at
this chichi health club.
661
00:39:16,031 --> 00:39:17,127
You were a towel boy?
662
00:39:17,129 --> 00:39:18,736
I was called something
other than a towel boy.
663
00:39:18,762 --> 00:39:19,796
I was, in effect, a towel boy.
664
00:39:19,798 --> 00:39:22,595
Occasionally trusted
with checking people in.
665
00:39:22,621 --> 00:39:23,567
"Show your ID."
666
00:39:23,569 --> 00:39:25,502
Anyway, one day
I'm sitting there.
667
00:39:25,504 --> 00:39:27,838
Who should walk in to get
their towel but this guy,
668
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,674
this writer that I knew who won a Whiting
writer's award the same year I had.
669
00:39:31,676 --> 00:39:33,176
Oh, God. Yeah.
670
00:39:33,178 --> 00:39:35,578
So there I am.
I'm sitting there.
671
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:37,780
I'd been on a rostrum with
this guy... Holy shit.
672
00:39:37,782 --> 00:39:40,049
Having Eudora Welty
give us an award.
673
00:39:40,051 --> 00:39:42,117
Two years later,
I'm sitting there...
674
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:45,354
It's the first time I remember ever
actively diving under something...
675
00:39:45,356 --> 00:39:46,855
to have somebody
avoid seeing me.
676
00:39:46,857 --> 00:39:48,690
You dove under a table?
Something like that.
677
00:39:48,692 --> 00:39:52,361
Did you think you were done? I thought
life was over. I was pretty sure.
678
00:39:52,363 --> 00:39:54,483
And was this after
your suicide watch?
679
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:01,135
Okay, how do you
know about that?
680
00:40:01,137 --> 00:40:03,738
I... I read about it somewhere.
681
00:40:03,740 --> 00:40:07,007
This was McLean's, right?
How long were you there?
682
00:40:07,009 --> 00:40:10,544
I was there for eight days.
And why were you there?
683
00:40:10,546 --> 00:40:13,680
Because I was probably afraid
that I would do something stupid.
684
00:40:13,682 --> 00:40:15,281
Okay.
685
00:40:18,018 --> 00:40:20,920
I had a friend in high school
who tried to kill himself...
686
00:40:20,922 --> 00:40:23,289
by sitting in a garage
with the car running.
687
00:40:23,291 --> 00:40:25,090
And what it turned out was
he didn't die.
688
00:40:25,092 --> 00:40:27,026
It just really
fucked up his brain.
689
00:40:27,028 --> 00:40:28,994
And I, you know...
690
00:40:28,996 --> 00:40:32,665
I knew that if anyone was fated to
fuck up a suicide attempt, it was me.
691
00:40:32,667 --> 00:40:35,267
So there you are.
You're still in your 20s.
692
00:40:35,269 --> 00:40:37,435
My late 20s.
Okay, your late 20s.
693
00:40:37,437 --> 00:40:39,905
And you're in
some kind of pain...
694
00:40:39,907 --> 00:40:42,841
about your desire to become some
sort of successful literary person.
695
00:40:42,843 --> 00:40:46,478
I think that the not very sophisticated
diagnosis is that I was depressed.
696
00:40:47,213 --> 00:40:48,980
Okay.
697
00:40:48,982 --> 00:40:53,451
Okay. At that point, my ego was
all tied up in my writing.
698
00:40:53,453 --> 00:40:56,221
It's the only thing
that I'd gotten any, like,
699
00:40:56,223 --> 00:40:58,823
food pellets
from the universe for.
700
00:40:58,825 --> 00:41:00,791
And I felt very trapped.
701
00:41:00,793 --> 00:41:03,461
"Oh, my five years are up
and I gotta move on.
702
00:41:03,463 --> 00:41:06,063
I don't want to move on."
703
00:41:06,065 --> 00:41:07,831
And I felt stuck.
704
00:41:09,601 --> 00:41:12,302
And it's not like I felt stuck
because I drank, okay?
705
00:41:12,304 --> 00:41:17,006
It was like I felt
my life was over at 28,
706
00:41:17,008 --> 00:41:19,008
and I felt really bad.
707
00:41:20,444 --> 00:41:23,012
I did not want to feel that,
so I did all sorts of stuff.
708
00:41:23,014 --> 00:41:25,080
I would drink real heavy.
709
00:41:25,082 --> 00:41:28,084
I would... fuck strangers.
710
00:41:28,086 --> 00:41:30,953
Sometimes I would not drink at all,
not drink at all for two weeks.
711
00:41:30,955 --> 00:41:35,090
Instead, I would run 10 miles
every morning in a desperate...
712
00:41:37,461 --> 00:41:40,129
like, a very American...
713
00:41:40,131 --> 00:41:45,068
"I will fix this somehow by taking
radical action" sort of thing.
714
00:41:48,338 --> 00:41:51,107
And here you are promoting
this acclaimed book.
715
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:52,875
That's not bad.
716
00:41:58,348 --> 00:42:01,383
David, this is nice.
717
00:42:01,385 --> 00:42:03,486
This is not real.
718
00:42:12,529 --> 00:42:14,531
By the way, an escort is
supposed to pick me up...
719
00:42:14,533 --> 00:42:16,966
and escort me to the reading.
720
00:42:16,968 --> 00:42:20,537
Of course, when I hear "escort," I
picture, like, full geisha and hair...
721
00:42:20,539 --> 00:42:22,138
Of course, right.
722
00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:24,907
Take you to the bookstore and
take you back to the hotel,
723
00:42:24,909 --> 00:42:27,911
walk on your back and then
just fuck your eyeballs out.
724
00:42:27,913 --> 00:42:30,680
I think that's her.
Ah, just as I pictured.
725
00:42:30,682 --> 00:42:33,417
Mr. Wallace. Just "Dave."
726
00:42:33,419 --> 00:42:36,253
I recognize you from
your photograph. Okay.
727
00:42:36,255 --> 00:42:37,654
I'm Patty Gundersson.
728
00:42:37,656 --> 00:42:39,723
And welcome to Minneapolis.
729
00:42:39,725 --> 00:42:42,492
Thank you, Patty. Hi. I'm David Lipsky.
How are you?
730
00:42:42,494 --> 00:42:45,229
Hi. Okay. David and David.
That's easy.
731
00:42:45,231 --> 00:42:47,731
- It's the Twin Cities, so...
- Hmm.
732
00:42:47,733 --> 00:42:50,367
We only just met. He's
writing a piece on the tour.
733
00:42:50,369 --> 00:42:54,637
- Should we get going?
- Yes. Come on. Come on. Great.
734
00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:56,573
How's your morning, Patty?
Oh, it's good.
735
00:42:56,575 --> 00:42:58,675
How about you guys?
Was the flight all right?
736
00:43:05,283 --> 00:43:09,619
You would not believe the
famous people I've driven.
737
00:43:09,621 --> 00:43:12,421
Shirley MacLaine when she
was on her book tour.
738
00:43:12,423 --> 00:43:15,291
Ron Wood, you know,
of the Rolling Stones.
739
00:43:15,293 --> 00:43:16,692
Of course. Yeah. Wow.
740
00:43:16,694 --> 00:43:19,728
Peter O'Toole. Oh, my gosh.
741
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:21,664
Very thin, but delightful.
742
00:43:21,666 --> 00:43:23,532
Hey! Look, there's the
Mary Tyler Moore statue.
743
00:43:23,534 --> 00:43:25,233
Yeah, there it is.
744
00:43:25,235 --> 00:43:26,635
Did you want to stop?
745
00:43:26,637 --> 00:43:28,770
Oh. No, it's fine.
746
00:43:28,772 --> 00:43:30,538
Thank you. Are you sure?
747
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,775
Everybody who comes here, that's
the first thing they want to see.
748
00:43:33,777 --> 00:43:37,078
"Where did Mary Tyler Moore
throw her hat up in the air?"
749
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,780
It's really one of our
biggest attractions.
750
00:43:38,782 --> 00:43:40,681
Are you sure you don't
want me to stop?
751
00:43:40,683 --> 00:43:44,919
Definitely. No.
Thank you though.
752
00:43:44,921 --> 00:43:47,221
Trust me. This is about
as sexy as the tour gets.
753
00:43:48,457 --> 00:43:50,391
Mr... Uh, Lipsky.
754
00:43:50,393 --> 00:43:53,293
L-I-P-S-K-Y.
755
00:43:53,295 --> 00:43:55,328
I've got you
in a standard double.
756
00:43:55,330 --> 00:43:57,864
And Mr. Wallace? Yes.
757
00:43:57,866 --> 00:43:59,866
You have a room with twins.
758
00:43:59,868 --> 00:44:03,169
Ah, yes. Anita and Consuela.
759
00:44:04,371 --> 00:44:05,838
Excuse me?
760
00:44:10,143 --> 00:44:12,377
All right, man. I'll see you soon.
I'm gonna take a nap.
761
00:44:12,379 --> 00:44:14,847
Oh. Uh...
762
00:44:16,015 --> 00:44:17,415
Yeah.
763
00:44:17,417 --> 00:44:19,617
What does he say
about the heroin rumors?
764
00:44:19,619 --> 00:44:21,553
I haven't gotten to that.
765
00:44:21,555 --> 00:44:23,288
What are you waiting for?
766
00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:26,558
What am I supposed to say? "Is it
true you were a heroin addict?"
767
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,660
Yes. That's your story.
768
00:44:28,662 --> 00:44:31,062
Okay, well, that's... It's hard.
769
00:44:31,064 --> 00:44:34,766
Why, because you like him?
Yeah. Yes.
770
00:44:34,768 --> 00:44:37,135
David, you gotta press him.
Okay.
771
00:44:37,137 --> 00:44:39,838
Be a prick if you have to. You're
not his best buddy. I know.
772
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,001
You're a reporter.
All right. Bye.
773
00:44:52,884 --> 00:44:54,784
It's right up here.
774
00:44:57,488 --> 00:44:59,087
Ready?
775
00:45:01,891 --> 00:45:04,692
- Ah!
- There he is.
776
00:45:04,694 --> 00:45:05,926
I can't believe
you guys actually came.
777
00:45:05,928 --> 00:45:08,229
Yeah, of course. Hi. Hi.
778
00:45:08,231 --> 00:45:09,964
Wouldn't miss it. Hello.
779
00:45:09,966 --> 00:45:12,499
Gluttons for punishment, both of you.
I know.
780
00:45:12,501 --> 00:45:16,370
Uh, this is Dave Lipsky. He's a
reporter from Rolling Stone.
781
00:45:16,372 --> 00:45:18,205
Yes. Hi. Oh.
782
00:45:18,207 --> 00:45:20,274
This is Julie. Hi. Nice
to meet you, Julie.
783
00:45:20,276 --> 00:45:22,142
Great to meet you.
784
00:45:22,144 --> 00:45:23,743
And, uh... This is Betsy.
785
00:45:23,745 --> 00:45:25,578
Betsy and I went
to grad school together.
786
00:45:25,580 --> 00:45:27,547
How nice. Nice to
meet you, Betsy.
787
00:45:27,549 --> 00:45:29,282
And, Julie, how do you...
788
00:45:29,284 --> 00:45:31,818
Julie... Here, turn this on.
This is on, right?
789
00:45:31,820 --> 00:45:33,686
It is. Why? Go ahead.
Do you wanna...
790
00:45:33,688 --> 00:45:36,422
I'll do it. Julie wrote
me a fan letter.
791
00:45:36,424 --> 00:45:37,891
Really? Mm-hmm.
792
00:45:37,893 --> 00:45:40,326
I really did. I... Yeah.
793
00:45:40,328 --> 00:45:43,228
I was the books editor at City
Pages, and I wrote him a fan letter.
794
00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:45,364
Julie's worked with
a whole lot of writers.
795
00:45:45,366 --> 00:45:47,632
So I was very discriminating.
796
00:45:47,634 --> 00:45:50,402
And then it turned out that we
actually like each other as people.
797
00:45:50,404 --> 00:45:53,271
Indeed. That's actually what
happened with Jon Franzen and me.
798
00:45:53,273 --> 00:45:56,174
I wrote him a fan letter. Turns
out writers are real pushovers...
799
00:45:56,176 --> 00:45:57,875
when it comes to flattery.
800
00:45:57,877 --> 00:45:59,476
So you could try that sometime.
801
00:45:59,478 --> 00:46:01,712
I got it. Very subtle.
802
00:46:01,714 --> 00:46:05,115
Friends of friends who
have friends, as well,
803
00:46:05,117 --> 00:46:06,983
who actually know who... Cookies?
804
00:46:06,985 --> 00:46:09,553
Oh, no. Thanks a lot.
Oh, no. Thank you.
805
00:46:09,555 --> 00:46:10,954
Cookies?
806
00:46:10,956 --> 00:46:14,391
Really? Yes, and I've actually
been sworn to secrecy.
807
00:46:14,393 --> 00:46:17,593
Are you sure I can't get
you something to drink?
808
00:46:18,595 --> 00:46:20,697
Do you have any artificial spit?
809
00:46:20,699 --> 00:46:23,866
I don't know why
you guys are laughing.
810
00:46:23,868 --> 00:46:25,969
It's an actual
pharmaceutical product.
811
00:46:25,971 --> 00:46:28,638
Called Xero-Lube. It's
like artificial saliva?
812
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,306
That's right. That's right, David.
Really?
813
00:46:30,308 --> 00:46:32,942
Except it's better because
it actually lubricates.
814
00:46:32,944 --> 00:46:35,244
You don't get that, like...
815
00:46:35,246 --> 00:46:37,112
I see. That clicky sound.
816
00:46:37,114 --> 00:46:39,315
Could you do that for Rolling Stone?
Here you go.
817
00:46:39,317 --> 00:46:42,217
I'll have to remember that.
818
00:46:42,219 --> 00:46:45,054
It's all right. Next tour,
I'll bring myself a case.
819
00:46:45,056 --> 00:46:47,456
In the meantime,
what can I get you?
820
00:46:47,458 --> 00:46:49,157
Just water with no ice, please.
821
00:46:49,159 --> 00:46:52,895
Are you a fiction wri... This
is off the record. Oh, good.
822
00:46:52,897 --> 00:46:55,230
Are you a fiction writer?
I'm a poet actually.
823
00:46:55,232 --> 00:46:58,400
Really? Could I have
seen anything of yours?
824
00:46:58,402 --> 00:47:00,835
I just had my first poem
published in The Kenyon Review.
825
00:47:00,837 --> 00:47:04,539
Really? Wow. Congratulations.
Yes. Thank you.
826
00:47:08,877 --> 00:47:11,144
I'm sorry. I don't mean
to be a prima donna,
827
00:47:11,146 --> 00:47:13,513
but do you mind if we
don't do a Q and A?
828
00:47:13,515 --> 00:47:16,583
Yeah, of course. Whatever makes
you feel most comfortable.
829
00:47:16,585 --> 00:47:18,117
Thank you. Sure.
830
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:21,287
It's always questions like,
"Where do you get your ideas?"
831
00:47:21,289 --> 00:47:25,089
I don't know. From a Time-Life
subscription series for 17.95 a month.
832
00:47:25,091 --> 00:47:27,992
Okay. Now, it's show time.
Okay.
833
00:47:29,461 --> 00:47:31,328
Here we go. Yeah.
834
00:47:31,330 --> 00:47:33,631
It's all downhill from here.
It's fine.
835
00:47:33,633 --> 00:47:37,167
This is the very last stop
on his book tour,
836
00:47:37,169 --> 00:47:39,436
and we're very lucky
to get him.
837
00:47:39,438 --> 00:47:42,372
Ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to The Hungry Mind,
838
00:47:42,374 --> 00:47:44,308
David Foster Wallace.
839
00:47:52,818 --> 00:47:55,921
Hello. Hi. Hi.
840
00:47:55,923 --> 00:47:57,889
No, I never show
my mother anything.
841
00:47:57,891 --> 00:47:59,690
Now I feel embarrassed
that I said that.
842
00:47:59,692 --> 00:48:01,759
But that's very sweet.
It is, right?
843
00:48:01,761 --> 00:48:03,794
What's that supposed
to be, a computer?
844
00:48:03,796 --> 00:48:06,963
No, that's a smiley face.
Oh. Right.
845
00:48:06,965 --> 00:48:08,699
I could put white-out
on it if you want.
846
00:48:08,701 --> 00:48:11,434
That's okay. It's your book.
Okay.
847
00:48:12,869 --> 00:48:15,972
Oh, man. This old thing.
Do you mind?
848
00:48:15,974 --> 00:48:18,441
I don't mind, but the
new one's a lot better.
849
00:48:19,276 --> 00:48:20,410
Awesome.
850
00:48:20,412 --> 00:48:23,812
I just realized that they...
they want me to be good.
851
00:48:24,613 --> 00:48:26,414
You know what I mean?
852
00:48:26,416 --> 00:48:29,383
It's just something about,
like, giving back.
853
00:48:29,385 --> 00:48:31,017
You know, in that way.
854
00:48:31,019 --> 00:48:33,820
That made me feel kind of
better about everything.
855
00:48:33,822 --> 00:48:36,656
Please, give us the... It's
not... There's no story.
856
00:48:36,658 --> 00:48:39,693
How did it happen then? Okay.
857
00:48:39,695 --> 00:48:41,327
I couldn't be regular
old Dave Wallace...
858
00:48:41,329 --> 00:48:43,429
'cause there were Dave
Wallaces all over the place.
859
00:48:43,431 --> 00:48:45,490
And David Rains Wallace
wrote for the New Yorker.
860
00:48:45,516 --> 00:48:46,766
I don't know if you remember.
861
00:48:46,768 --> 00:48:49,135
So then, one day... It
was Fred Hill asked me,
862
00:48:49,137 --> 00:48:52,572
"What's your middle name?" Dave
Foster Wallace. That's it.
863
00:48:52,574 --> 00:48:54,440
That's your story? Yes.
864
00:48:54,442 --> 00:48:56,976
That is literally the worst superhero
origin story I've ever heard.
865
00:48:56,978 --> 00:48:59,611
I cannot claim that it
was an origin story.
866
00:48:59,613 --> 00:49:03,248
Dave, remember in Tucson that professor
you kind of locked horns with?
867
00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:06,484
Oh, man. My nemesis, who shall
remain nameless. Oh, come on.
868
00:49:06,486 --> 00:49:09,330
I was just kind of a prick.
I think he was too.
869
00:49:09,356 --> 00:49:10,455
I was unteachable.
870
00:49:10,457 --> 00:49:13,459
I don't think I was actively
unpleasant in class.
871
00:49:13,461 --> 00:49:15,527
You were pretty unpleasant.
872
00:49:15,529 --> 00:49:17,061
Okay, Betsy. Betsy. Really.
873
00:49:17,063 --> 00:49:19,096
Oh, I loved it. I loved it.
874
00:49:19,098 --> 00:49:22,033
Betsy, this is... She loved it.
875
00:49:22,035 --> 00:49:24,001
He was pleasantly unpleasant.
876
00:49:24,003 --> 00:49:26,637
That's a great quote, if you
want to quote something.
877
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:28,805
I'm gonna have to interview
the teacher as well though.
878
00:49:28,807 --> 00:49:31,775
Hmm.
879
00:49:31,777 --> 00:49:34,944
I have to be up unconscionably early
for this public radio interview,
880
00:49:34,946 --> 00:49:36,078
so we should probably
get going.
881
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,847
That means I have
to get up early too.
882
00:49:37,849 --> 00:49:41,116
You can do whatever the fuck you want.
You know?
883
00:49:41,118 --> 00:49:43,752
You can sleep in
if you want to.
884
00:49:43,754 --> 00:49:46,988
Well, we'll get you back
to the hotel then.
885
00:49:46,990 --> 00:49:48,789
Check. You know what,
I will get the check.
886
00:49:48,791 --> 00:49:51,859
I'll get it. Please,
this one is on me.
887
00:49:51,861 --> 00:49:54,027
Well, it's on Jann.
No, no. It's on me.
888
00:49:54,029 --> 00:49:55,763
Jann? Jann's his boss.
889
00:49:55,765 --> 00:49:58,532
No, this one is on me. It was
just so nice to meet you guys.
890
00:49:58,534 --> 00:50:00,367
Mr. Rolling Stone. Yeah.
891
00:50:24,859 --> 00:50:26,626
Can you close the window?
It's fucking freezing.
892
00:50:26,628 --> 00:50:30,996
No, sorry, I cannot. This is our
hypothermia smoking tour of the Midwest.
893
00:50:30,998 --> 00:50:34,567
Hypothermia smoking tour.
I love that.
894
00:50:34,569 --> 00:50:37,437
- Oh, thank you.
- Sounds like something Dave would say.
895
00:50:37,439 --> 00:50:38,971
Doesn't it?
896
00:50:50,783 --> 00:50:53,150
Thanks, ladies. Yeah, sure.
897
00:50:53,152 --> 00:50:55,887
Yeah, thank you so much. Sure.
What are you doing tomorrow?
898
00:50:55,889 --> 00:50:58,889
Oh. I'm not sure yet.
899
00:50:59,957 --> 00:51:01,959
Well, give us a call if you want.
We're here.
900
00:51:01,961 --> 00:51:03,393
Okay. Will do.
901
00:51:03,395 --> 00:51:05,395
Thanks again for coming.
Thank you so much.
902
00:51:05,397 --> 00:51:07,163
Nice to meet you, Julie.
903
00:51:07,165 --> 00:51:09,332
Bye, Betsy. Bye. Bye, David.
904
00:51:18,041 --> 00:51:21,210
That was fun.
Yeah, it was nice.
905
00:51:21,212 --> 00:51:23,292
All right, I'm hungry. Still?
906
00:51:24,580 --> 00:51:27,015
Yeah, it's terrifying
when it's happening.
907
00:51:27,017 --> 00:51:29,784
Really? How does it
feel though?
908
00:51:29,786 --> 00:51:33,087
People fighting to get in. A big line
of people wanting to impress you.
909
00:51:34,622 --> 00:51:36,889
I tell you what. I think
that having an audience...
910
00:51:36,891 --> 00:51:38,825
like, really,
really pretty girls...
911
00:51:38,827 --> 00:51:42,662
who are all paying attention to you
and kind of like what you're saying,
912
00:51:42,664 --> 00:51:47,834
that's gratifying on a fairly, I
think, just simple mammal level.
913
00:51:47,836 --> 00:51:50,704
I know. Why is that?
914
00:51:50,706 --> 00:51:54,007
I think pretty girls are what we most
dream and despair of ever having,
915
00:51:54,009 --> 00:51:56,343
like, pay attention to us.
916
00:51:56,345 --> 00:52:00,146
There they are in the front
row making eyes at you.
917
00:52:00,148 --> 00:52:02,582
I think my girlfriend
is in love with you.
918
00:52:04,217 --> 00:52:06,518
Come on. No, she's not.
No, really.
919
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,020
I think she is.
920
00:52:08,022 --> 00:52:10,318
I think she likes your
writing better than mine.
921
00:52:10,344 --> 00:52:11,490
That's kind of annoying.
922
00:52:11,492 --> 00:52:15,527
Let's get her on the phone.
Get her on the phone. What?
923
00:52:15,529 --> 00:52:17,095
No.
924
00:52:18,597 --> 00:52:21,299
No. I don't know. She's...
925
00:52:21,301 --> 00:52:23,934
She's probably sleeping anyway.
926
00:52:26,405 --> 00:52:27,571
Please.
927
00:52:29,408 --> 00:52:31,107
Hello? Hi.
928
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:34,344
How's it going? It's,
uh... Did I wake you up?
929
00:52:34,346 --> 00:52:37,246
No. I'm up reading
Infinite Jest.
930
00:52:37,248 --> 00:52:39,549
Pretty amazing. Oh. Good.
931
00:52:39,551 --> 00:52:42,118
Listen, I'm here with somebody
who wants to talk to you.
932
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,855
Can you hold on a second?
What's her name again?
933
00:52:44,857 --> 00:52:47,018
It's Sarah. Yeah. Sarah.
934
00:52:48,158 --> 00:52:50,059
Sarah, hi. It's Dave Wallace.
935
00:52:50,061 --> 00:52:51,360
Nice to meet you telephonically.
936
00:52:51,362 --> 00:52:53,261
It's nice to meet you
telephonically as well.
937
00:52:53,263 --> 00:52:56,898
Is David behaving himself?
Let me ask him.
938
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:59,000
Are you behaving yourself?
939
00:52:59,002 --> 00:53:01,002
She's asking that?
940
00:53:03,107 --> 00:53:05,273
I'm reasonably sure that he is.
941
00:53:05,275 --> 00:53:07,576
I don't have eyes on him 24-7.
942
00:53:07,578 --> 00:53:09,210
Sarah? Okay.
943
00:53:09,212 --> 00:53:11,278
What are you doin' tonight?
Don't ask her that.
944
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,315
Oh, wow. You're kidding me. Oh, my gosh.
Yes. It's awesome.
945
00:53:15,317 --> 00:53:17,083
What part are you on?
946
00:53:17,085 --> 00:53:19,986
369. Wow, you're
really far along.
947
00:53:19,988 --> 00:53:22,254
I know. I can't put it down.
Oh, thank you.
948
00:53:22,256 --> 00:53:27,059
Really, thank you. I mean,
that's very flattering.
949
00:53:27,061 --> 00:53:29,261
What the fuck was that about?
What?
950
00:53:29,263 --> 00:53:30,996
You were on the phone with him
for half an hour.
951
00:53:30,998 --> 00:53:34,533
It wasn't a half hour. It was. It
was 25 minutes. Okay? I timed it.
952
00:53:34,535 --> 00:53:36,401
You were only supposed
to say hello.
953
00:53:53,421 --> 00:53:56,957
- David?
- David, we gotta go.
954
00:53:56,959 --> 00:53:59,459
Uh, the escort's waiting.
955
00:54:01,529 --> 00:54:03,863
Hey. Sorry.
956
00:54:03,865 --> 00:54:07,968
I got totally, like, sucked
in with this orgy of crap.
957
00:54:07,970 --> 00:54:12,138
There's a simultaneous broadcast of Falcon
Crest, Magnum P.I. and Charlie's Angels.
958
00:54:12,140 --> 00:54:14,274
Okay. A perfect storm of shit.
959
00:54:14,276 --> 00:54:16,756
I'll be out in a second, okay?
Okay.
960
00:54:39,266 --> 00:54:41,834
Call now to order and get
this free workout video...
961
00:54:41,836 --> 00:54:45,138
with complete instructions
and 16 ab-work exercises.
962
00:54:45,140 --> 00:54:48,774
Plus my 20-minute aerobic workout.
That's everything you need.
963
00:54:50,377 --> 00:54:51,977
Here, go in. Can you go around?
964
00:54:51,979 --> 00:54:53,511
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Thanks.
965
00:54:59,018 --> 00:55:01,252
You're wearing that?
966
00:55:03,788 --> 00:55:07,123
For a radio interview? Uh, yes.
967
00:55:14,032 --> 00:55:17,233
Hi. Dave. Dave Wallace.
968
00:55:17,235 --> 00:55:20,036
I know who you are.
969
00:55:20,038 --> 00:55:22,505
My amanuensis... Mr. Boswell.
970
00:55:22,507 --> 00:55:24,773
- Mr. Boswell.
- Very clever. Hi.
971
00:55:24,775 --> 00:55:26,375
Right this way.
972
00:55:29,645 --> 00:55:32,581
We record digitally.
I hope that's okay.
973
00:55:32,583 --> 00:55:36,084
So just yes or no answers?
974
00:55:36,086 --> 00:55:37,486
That's very funny. Hey.
975
00:55:37,488 --> 00:55:40,355
What? Hey. You do a really
mean job with this,
976
00:55:40,357 --> 00:55:42,690
Yeah? I got, like, 20
years to get you back.
977
00:55:42,692 --> 00:55:44,092
You remember that.
You're gonna be fine.
978
00:55:44,094 --> 00:55:46,661
My guest today
is David Foster Wallace,
979
00:55:46,663 --> 00:55:49,297
who has burst on
the literary scene...
980
00:55:49,299 --> 00:55:52,366
with his 1,079-page,
981
00:55:52,368 --> 00:55:55,969
three-pound, three-ounce novel,
982
00:55:55,971 --> 00:55:58,137
Infinite Jest.
983
00:55:58,139 --> 00:56:02,141
Jay Mclnerney called it "something
like a sleek Vonnegut chassis..."
984
00:56:02,143 --> 00:56:04,642
wrapped in layers
of post-millennial Zola."
985
00:56:06,111 --> 00:56:08,079
David Foster Wallace,
welcome to our show.
986
00:56:08,081 --> 00:56:10,014
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
987
00:56:10,016 --> 00:56:14,585
All right. Now, you have said
you saw yourself as, quote,
988
00:56:14,587 --> 00:56:19,123
"a combination of being incredibly
shy and being an egomaniac too."
989
00:56:19,125 --> 00:56:22,092
I believe I said
"exhibitionist" also.
990
00:56:22,094 --> 00:56:23,860
Meaning?
991
00:56:23,862 --> 00:56:26,163
I think being shy basically
means being self-absorbed...
992
00:56:26,165 --> 00:56:29,766
to the extent that it makes it
difficult to be around other people.
993
00:56:29,768 --> 00:56:31,769
Difficult for you or difficult
for the other people?
994
00:56:31,771 --> 00:56:35,339
Ah. I suppose
a little bit of both.
995
00:56:35,341 --> 00:56:37,775
That was wonderful. Oh, yeah?
996
00:56:37,777 --> 00:56:42,078
I listened to the whole show.
It was so interesting. Thanks.
997
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,448
I may have to buy your
book and read it.
998
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:46,650
- Uh, sorry about that.
- Oh, no!
999
00:56:46,652 --> 00:56:49,387
Wasn't he wonderful?
He was wonderful.
1000
00:56:49,389 --> 00:56:52,323
Oh, my gosh. So, you have
the rest of the day free.
1001
00:56:52,325 --> 00:56:54,558
Where would you like to go?
1002
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,160
Yeah.
1003
00:56:56,162 --> 00:56:58,428
Do you know where
the Mall of America is?
1004
00:56:58,430 --> 00:57:00,663
Yes, I do. Great.
1005
00:57:00,665 --> 00:57:02,766
Yes, I do. Yeah.
1006
00:57:09,675 --> 00:57:12,609
I wanted to write something
that had the sort of texture...
1007
00:57:12,611 --> 00:57:14,545
of what American life
is like now.
1008
00:57:14,547 --> 00:57:16,914
- This tsunami of stuff just comin' at you.
- Right.
1009
00:57:16,916 --> 00:57:20,151
Also, it's not unfun, I don't think.
No. I don't think so either.
1010
00:57:20,153 --> 00:57:23,354
No. Not at all. I mean, although it
is, uh... it is sort of heavy though.
1011
00:57:23,356 --> 00:57:25,523
Right? Weight-wise at least.
1012
00:57:25,525 --> 00:57:28,626
My friend said, when it hit his porch,
it sounded like a car bomb going off.
1013
00:57:28,628 --> 00:57:31,496
Right. Exactly. And... And who
do you think your readers are?
1014
00:57:31,498 --> 00:57:33,431
Are they, uh...
Are they college kids?
1015
00:57:33,433 --> 00:57:36,500
The people who seem most
enthusiastic are young men.
1016
00:57:36,502 --> 00:57:39,270
Which I guess I understand.
It's a fairly male book.
1017
00:57:39,272 --> 00:57:42,439
It's a fairly nerdy book, too,
about loneliness.
1018
00:57:42,441 --> 00:57:45,309
You also can expect that someone who's
willing to read... and read hard...
1019
00:57:45,311 --> 00:57:48,378
a thousand-page book is gonna be
someone with some loneliness issues.
1020
00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:50,748
Right.
1021
00:57:52,016 --> 00:57:54,450
So, is that what you think
the book is about then?
1022
00:57:54,452 --> 00:57:56,586
About loneliness?
1023
00:57:59,690 --> 00:58:03,026
I think that if there's a sort
of sadness for people under 45,
1024
00:58:03,028 --> 00:58:07,331
it has something to do with pleasure
and achievement and entertainment.
1025
00:58:07,333 --> 00:58:10,534
Like a sort of emptiness at the heart
of what they thought was going on,
1026
00:58:10,536 --> 00:58:13,571
and maybe I can hope
that some parts of the book...
1027
00:58:13,573 --> 00:58:16,206
speak to their nerve endings
a little bit. Mm-hmm.
1028
00:58:16,208 --> 00:58:19,577
If you quote any of this, by the way,
you'd do me a great favor by saying...
1029
00:58:19,579 --> 00:58:21,345
this is what I hope
for the book, you know.
1030
00:58:21,347 --> 00:58:24,247
This is what the book is trying to achieve.
I don't pretend that it has.
1031
00:58:24,249 --> 00:58:27,150
That's... That's fine. Um...
1032
00:58:27,152 --> 00:58:30,219
So the Walter Kirn review in, uh,
New York magazine. Did you...
1033
00:58:30,221 --> 00:58:33,423
I heard about it. I didn't read it.
You didn't read it.
1034
00:58:33,425 --> 00:58:37,127
"Next year's book awards have been
decided." How do you feel about that?
1035
00:58:37,129 --> 00:58:40,130
How do I feel about it? I applaud
his taste and discernment.
1036
00:58:40,132 --> 00:58:42,765
What do you want me to say?
How would you feel about it?
1037
00:58:43,834 --> 00:58:46,335
How would I feel?
1038
00:58:46,337 --> 00:58:52,875
That something that I had known was really
good was now being validated by somebody else.
1039
00:58:52,877 --> 00:58:57,780
All I know is this is absolutely the
best I could do between 1992 and 1995.
1040
00:58:57,782 --> 00:58:59,915
If everybody had hated it,
I wouldn't have been thrilled.
1041
00:58:59,917 --> 00:59:03,419
I don't think I would have
been devastated either.
1042
00:59:03,421 --> 00:59:06,555
When you're used to doing heavy-duty
literary stuff that doesn't sell well,
1043
00:59:06,557 --> 00:59:10,759
being human animals with egos, you accommodate
that fact by the following equation.
1044
00:59:10,761 --> 00:59:13,596
If something sells really well,
gets a lot of attention,
1045
00:59:13,598 --> 00:59:15,799
it's gotta be shit, right?
Right. Of course.
1046
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,066
The ultimate irony is, if your
thing starts selling well,
1047
00:59:18,068 --> 00:59:19,601
gets a lot of attention,
1048
00:59:19,603 --> 00:59:21,603
the very mechanism
you used to shore yourself up...
1049
00:59:21,605 --> 00:59:23,471
when your thing didn't sell
well... Doesn't work anymore.
1050
00:59:23,473 --> 00:59:26,975
It's now part of the darkness nexus when
it does, so you're totally screwed.
1051
00:59:26,977 --> 00:59:28,710
You know, you can't win.
1052
00:59:31,014 --> 00:59:33,215
I don't really see how they
could've gotten lost. Right.
1053
00:59:33,217 --> 00:59:35,568
I mean, it's a straight shot.
Yeah. Of course.
1054
00:59:35,594 --> 00:59:37,220
Right, just past the food court.
1055
00:59:37,222 --> 00:59:40,623
Yeah. Through the amusement park.
Through the first lobster.
1056
00:59:40,625 --> 00:59:43,026
Yeah. Don't go to the aquarium.
Turn right.
1057
00:59:43,028 --> 00:59:46,428
Do not... If you see fudge,
you've gone too far.
1058
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:49,165
Hey! Hello.
1059
00:59:49,167 --> 00:59:50,799
Aw. Hey!
1060
00:59:53,035 --> 00:59:55,704
- Hello.
- It's good to see you.
1061
00:59:55,706 --> 00:59:57,472
Nice to see you. Thanks
for driving up here.
1062
00:59:57,474 --> 00:59:58,806
Yes. You love it, I know it.
1063
00:59:58,808 --> 01:00:00,808
Nice to see you. Hello, Betsy.
Great. How are you?
1064
01:00:00,810 --> 01:00:03,077
What's The Juror?
1065
01:00:03,079 --> 01:00:07,014
Oh, that's a Demi Moore,
John Grisham movie. Yeah.
1066
01:00:07,016 --> 01:00:08,315
Happy Gilmore? No.
1067
01:00:08,317 --> 01:00:09,983
That's, uh, what? Adam Sandier.
1068
01:00:09,985 --> 01:00:12,151
Right. What about,
uh, Broken Arrow?
1069
01:00:12,153 --> 01:00:15,555
It's a dumb boy movie. Stuff blows up.
I've actually seen that.
1070
01:00:15,557 --> 01:00:17,089
You saw that already?
I did actually.
1071
01:00:17,091 --> 01:00:18,623
Wow, a man after my own heart.
1072
01:00:18,625 --> 01:00:21,193
But I would be happy to see
it again if you want to.
1073
01:00:21,195 --> 01:00:22,994
Nah. We can really
see anything.
1074
01:00:35,774 --> 01:00:38,009
Oh, man.
1075
01:00:58,332 --> 01:00:59,999
No.
1076
01:01:01,502 --> 01:01:02,568
Yes.
1077
01:01:11,311 --> 01:01:13,179
It's fantastic.
1078
01:01:13,181 --> 01:01:15,548
- Horrible.
- You have got to be kidding me.
1079
01:01:15,550 --> 01:01:19,052
That was the worst... The end, when
Travolta got impaled by the thing?
1080
01:01:19,054 --> 01:01:22,255
The worst movie I've ever seen.
He-He saved humanity, Betsy.
1081
01:01:22,257 --> 01:01:23,990
No, he did not. Have a heart.
1082
01:01:23,992 --> 01:01:25,625
He made it worse.
You've changed.
1083
01:01:25,627 --> 01:01:27,827
He made it worse.
What do we do now?
1084
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:31,331
Do you have a TV? Uh-huh. I do.
1085
01:01:31,333 --> 01:01:33,966
Oh, God. You know what I mean.
Who knows? Okay.
1086
01:01:33,968 --> 01:01:36,234
I guess, you know. Oh, gotta hand
you, that show the other day.
1087
01:01:36,236 --> 01:01:38,103
With Sandra Bernhard?
Ah, Jesus Christ!
1088
01:01:38,105 --> 01:01:39,804
I know that guy actually.
1089
01:01:39,806 --> 01:01:42,473
Wh-Which one? The one
playing Letterman.
1090
01:01:42,475 --> 01:01:43,875
Really? You do?
1091
01:01:43,877 --> 01:01:45,910
How? We went to
Amherst together.
1092
01:01:45,912 --> 01:01:46,844
No. Yeah.
1093
01:01:46,846 --> 01:01:48,378
Was he a friend of yours?
1094
01:01:48,380 --> 01:01:50,080
I hated his guts so much.
1095
01:01:50,082 --> 01:01:51,581
Of course you did. Right.
1096
01:01:51,583 --> 01:01:53,649
Hey, wait. Does anyone
want drinks or anything?
1097
01:01:53,651 --> 01:01:55,385
No. No? Okay.
1098
01:01:55,387 --> 01:01:59,155
- But, um, there's also beer in the fridge.
- Soda's fine. Thank you.
1099
01:02:00,490 --> 01:02:03,559
- Why did you hate him?
- Pretty simple recipe.
1100
01:02:03,561 --> 01:02:05,827
He was, like, very cool and popular.
Mm-hmm.
1101
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:09,731
And I was not. That was the basic offense.
Look at him now.
1102
01:02:13,069 --> 01:02:14,836
Hey. Hey.
1103
01:02:14,838 --> 01:02:16,737
Ah, I brought you something.
1104
01:02:16,739 --> 01:02:18,371
You brought me something?
1105
01:02:18,373 --> 01:02:19,940
Yeah. What is this?
1106
01:02:19,942 --> 01:02:21,875
Oh, my God. This is the, uh...
1107
01:02:21,877 --> 01:02:23,810
This is the Review, where
you have your poem in it.
1108
01:02:23,812 --> 01:02:25,174
Somewhere in there.
That's amazing.
1109
01:02:25,679 --> 01:02:27,079
What's on next?
1110
01:02:27,081 --> 01:02:31,050
Algiers, starring Hedy Lamarr.
Have you seen that?
1111
01:02:31,052 --> 01:02:35,187
Um, no. It's one of the greats.
And Hedy Lamarr is fascinating.
1112
01:02:35,189 --> 01:02:38,024
She invented, uh... She
invented frequency hopping.
1113
01:02:38,692 --> 01:02:40,259
No, she didn't. Yeah.
1114
01:02:40,261 --> 01:02:41,860
I will. I definitely will.
1115
01:02:41,862 --> 01:02:43,128
Um...
1116
01:02:43,130 --> 01:02:45,263
Hey, I was wondering.
When I get back to New York,
1117
01:02:45,265 --> 01:02:48,165
if I have any questions about what Dave
was like in grad school or something,
1118
01:02:48,167 --> 01:02:51,736
can I e-mail you?
Sure, if it's okay with Dave.
1119
01:02:51,738 --> 01:02:53,370
I'm sure it's fine with Dave.
1120
01:02:53,372 --> 01:02:57,108
That's great. So can I take your
e-mail address then? Sure. Uh, yeah.
1121
01:02:57,976 --> 01:03:00,010
Oh, that'd be great. Thank you.
1122
01:03:00,012 --> 01:03:03,948
You could just write it
on your book.
1123
01:03:09,755 --> 01:03:11,422
Thank you so much.
Can you read that?
1124
01:03:11,424 --> 01:03:15,526
I can see that it is letters. But,
no, I'll be fine. Thank you so much.
1125
01:03:15,528 --> 01:03:17,127
Sure.
1126
01:03:21,332 --> 01:03:23,366
- So, do you drink out of the tap?
- Yes.
1127
01:03:23,368 --> 01:03:25,135
Okay, great.
1128
01:03:29,439 --> 01:03:31,407
What are you...
What are you doing?
1129
01:03:31,409 --> 01:03:32,875
What?
1130
01:03:32,877 --> 01:03:36,211
I saw you hitting on Betsy.
1131
01:03:36,213 --> 01:03:40,316
Hitting on... I was...
I was talking to her.
1132
01:03:40,318 --> 01:03:43,453
David. I saw you.
1133
01:03:43,455 --> 01:03:46,189
You got her to give you
her address.
1134
01:03:46,191 --> 01:03:49,459
No, no, no. I got her to
give me her e-mail address.
1135
01:03:49,461 --> 01:03:52,528
In case I had questions about the
piece that I am writing about you.
1136
01:03:52,530 --> 01:03:54,029
Really? Okay. Yeah, really.
1137
01:03:54,031 --> 01:03:56,832
Well, I'll tell you what. What?
1138
01:03:56,834 --> 01:03:58,400
I don't want her
talking to you.
1139
01:03:58,402 --> 01:04:00,068
- I won't contact her.
- Look...
1140
01:04:00,070 --> 01:04:03,038
I told you that Betsy and I
dated during grad school.
1141
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,360
The least... Look at me. The least
you could... No, you're not.
1142
01:04:08,110 --> 01:04:10,344
The least you could do
is show me the respect...
1143
01:04:10,346 --> 01:04:13,681
of not coming on to her
right in front of me.
1144
01:04:13,683 --> 01:04:18,686
Dave, I'm sorry if it looked that way.
That was not my intention.
1145
01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:22,222
And why would I want to get involved
with somebody who lives in Saint Paul?
1146
01:04:23,891 --> 01:04:28,261
I don't know. You're already involved
with somebody who lives in Los Angeles.
1147
01:04:30,397 --> 01:04:31,598
Okay.
1148
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,700
Are you okay?
1149
01:04:33,702 --> 01:04:35,668
Yeah, everything's fine.
Thank you.
1150
01:04:35,670 --> 01:04:37,337
Okay.
1151
01:04:38,339 --> 01:04:40,839
Stay away from her, okay?
1152
01:04:43,076 --> 01:04:45,410
Be a good guy.
1153
01:04:50,316 --> 01:04:52,116
What'd I miss?
1154
01:04:52,118 --> 01:04:56,420
Everything. Nothing. Everything? That
seems like a gross exaggeration.
1155
01:05:16,408 --> 01:05:20,111
No. No! No!
1156
01:05:20,113 --> 01:05:23,880
No! No! No!
1157
01:05:24,983 --> 01:05:26,550
No!
1158
01:05:57,818 --> 01:06:00,319
9.50, please.
1159
01:06:00,321 --> 01:06:03,990
I got it. It's all right. My
expense account will pay for it.
1160
01:06:03,992 --> 01:06:06,860
Yeah, so will mine.
I said I got it.
1161
01:06:09,063 --> 01:06:10,797
Thank you.
1162
01:06:50,406 --> 01:06:52,473
Hey, um...
1163
01:06:53,641 --> 01:06:55,609
Good night.
1164
01:07:02,084 --> 01:07:03,918
Were you flirting? Sarah. Of
course I was not flirting.
1165
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:05,753
He just... He went
completely crazy on me.
1166
01:07:05,755 --> 01:07:08,523
Well, you do that, David, you know?
You're not even aware of it.
1167
01:07:08,525 --> 01:07:11,359
Sorry, I do... What do I do?
You're compulsively flirtatious.
1168
01:07:11,361 --> 01:07:13,195
Okay. Well, now you're
taking his side.
1169
01:07:13,197 --> 01:07:16,765
I am not. Yes, you are.
Listen, I...
1170
01:07:16,767 --> 01:07:19,401
I think I'm just
really tired, okay?
1171
01:07:20,636 --> 01:07:22,503
I gotta go.
1172
01:07:22,505 --> 01:07:23,971
David?
1173
01:07:25,007 --> 01:07:27,008
David?
1174
01:07:37,187 --> 01:07:38,520
Good morning!
1175
01:07:38,522 --> 01:07:41,155
Hi.
And how are we this morning?
1176
01:07:43,592 --> 01:07:45,225
Think I'll sit up front.
1177
01:07:45,227 --> 01:07:49,529
Oh. Okay. Let me just,
um, move my stuff.
1178
01:07:51,231 --> 01:07:53,031
There you go.
1179
01:09:44,522 --> 01:09:46,689
Okay.
1180
01:09:49,260 --> 01:09:51,427
What?
1181
01:09:51,429 --> 01:09:54,029
You didn't think to write
down where we parked the car?
1182
01:09:54,031 --> 01:09:56,432
No. I didn't. Okay?
1183
01:09:56,434 --> 01:09:58,967
Sorry. I fucked up. All right?
I'm a fuckup.
1184
01:09:58,969 --> 01:10:01,337
Not everybody can be
as brilliant as you.
1185
01:10:01,339 --> 01:10:04,306
What is with you? What
the fuck is with you?
1186
01:10:18,454 --> 01:10:21,055
I gotta say,
there's something...
1187
01:10:21,057 --> 01:10:24,538
basically false about
your approach here.
1188
01:10:25,426 --> 01:10:28,194
What do you mean "false"?
Yeah, I think it's, uh...
1189
01:10:28,196 --> 01:10:31,764
I think it's part of your
whole social strategy.
1190
01:10:31,766 --> 01:10:34,366
In what way?
1191
01:10:34,368 --> 01:10:37,803
You still feel you're
smarter than other people.
1192
01:10:37,805 --> 01:10:39,371
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
1193
01:10:39,373 --> 01:10:41,606
But you act like you're
in a kids' softball game,
1194
01:10:41,608 --> 01:10:44,042
but holding back his power-hitting to
try and make it more competitive...
1195
01:10:44,044 --> 01:10:45,543
for the little ones, you know?
1196
01:10:45,545 --> 01:10:48,880
When? Here. Now. The
past three days.
1197
01:10:48,882 --> 01:10:51,249
It's part of your
social strategy.
1198
01:10:52,718 --> 01:10:55,087
You're a tough room, you know that?
It's so obvious,
1199
01:10:55,089 --> 01:10:59,123
the way you hold back your intelligence
to be with people who are, uh,
1200
01:10:59,125 --> 01:11:01,192
younger than you
or not as agile as you.
1201
01:11:01,194 --> 01:11:04,034
That would make me a real
asshole, wouldn't it? Well.
1202
01:11:04,829 --> 01:11:07,598
I don't think writers
are smarter than other people.
1203
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,701
I think they may be more
compelling in their stupidity.
1204
01:11:10,703 --> 01:11:12,370
Or in their confusion.
1205
01:11:12,372 --> 01:11:14,638
But I think one of the real ways
I have gotten smarter...
1206
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:16,873
is I don't think I'm that much
smarter than other people.
1207
01:11:16,875 --> 01:11:18,442
That's right.
1208
01:11:18,444 --> 01:11:20,977
There are ways in which other
people are a lot smarter than me.
1209
01:11:20,979 --> 01:11:23,646
And I gotta tell you, it...
1210
01:11:23,648 --> 01:11:25,849
It makes me feel kinda lonely.
What?
1211
01:11:25,851 --> 01:11:28,751
There's been certain stuff I've
told you that's been really true.
1212
01:11:28,753 --> 01:11:31,154
- I think it's been brave of me.
- No, no, no. Absolutely.
1213
01:11:31,156 --> 01:11:33,022
I've written enough
of these pieces to know...
1214
01:11:33,024 --> 01:11:35,557
you can write this up a hundred
different ways. You're right.
1215
01:11:35,559 --> 01:11:38,561
Ninety of which I'm gonna come
across as a monumental asshole.
1216
01:11:38,563 --> 01:11:41,230
And now it seems to me
like your read on this is,
1217
01:11:41,232 --> 01:11:44,500
"Wow. What an interesting
persona Dave is adopting...
1218
01:11:44,502 --> 01:11:46,869
- "for the purposes of this interview."
- No, that's not what I'm saying.
1219
01:11:46,871 --> 01:11:51,540
If we had done this by the mail, if I had access
to my library, if I could look stuff up...
1220
01:11:51,542 --> 01:11:54,443
My dream for this would be for you
to write it up, send it to me...
1221
01:11:54,445 --> 01:11:55,911
- and let me rewrite all my quotes.
- Right.
1222
01:11:55,913 --> 01:11:58,346
Which, of course, you'll never do.
But if I'm in a room...
1223
01:11:58,348 --> 01:12:01,516
by myself, alone, and I have
time, I can be really smart.
1224
01:12:01,518 --> 01:12:03,535
Yes, I think I'm bright.
I think I'm talented.
1225
01:12:03,561 --> 01:12:05,252
I'm not trying to
sound disingenuous...
1226
01:12:05,254 --> 01:12:07,421
- Oh, no?
- I am not an idiot.
1227
01:12:07,423 --> 01:12:10,223
Yes, I can talk intelligently
with you about stuff,
1228
01:12:10,225 --> 01:12:12,559
but I can't quite
keep up with you.
1229
01:12:12,561 --> 01:12:14,360
- Okay. That is such bullshit.
- Oh, believe me.
1230
01:12:14,362 --> 01:12:17,563
I am not doing some
sorta like, "Aw, shucks."
1231
01:12:17,565 --> 01:12:19,666
I'm just in from the country.
I'm not a real writer.
1232
01:12:19,668 --> 01:12:22,168
"I'm a regular guy" thing. I'm not
trying to lay some shit on you.
1233
01:12:22,170 --> 01:12:25,805
But you did it again though. You flatter
me, but you're just patronizing.
1234
01:12:25,807 --> 01:12:27,740
I just think that to look
across the room...
1235
01:12:27,742 --> 01:12:30,810
and to automatically assume
that somebody is less aware...
1236
01:12:30,812 --> 01:12:34,980
or that their interior life is
somehow less rich and complicated...
1237
01:12:34,982 --> 01:12:39,285
and acutely perceived as mine,
makes me not as good a writer.
Why?
1238
01:12:39,287 --> 01:12:41,887
Because it means I'm gonna be performing
for some faceless audience...
1239
01:12:41,889 --> 01:12:44,123
instead of trying to have a
conversation with a person.
1240
01:12:44,125 --> 01:12:47,659
If you think that's faux... You know what?
You think whatever you want.
1241
01:12:47,661 --> 01:12:51,196
I got a real, serious fear
of being a certain way.
1242
01:12:51,198 --> 01:12:55,100
And a set, I think, of real convictions
about why I'm continuing to do this.
1243
01:12:55,102 --> 01:12:58,203
Why it's worthwhile. Why it's not just
an exercise in getting my dick sucked.
1244
01:12:58,205 --> 01:12:59,904
Okay.
1245
01:12:59,906 --> 01:13:01,382
This is such a clever
tactic on your part.
1246
01:13:01,408 --> 01:13:02,240
Tactic? What tactic?
1247
01:13:02,242 --> 01:13:04,742
That's right. Get me a little pissed
off, get me a little less guarded...
1248
01:13:04,744 --> 01:13:07,212
I'm gonna reveal more.
Yes, it's true.
1249
01:13:07,214 --> 01:13:09,514
- I treasure my regular guyness.
- Mm-hmm.
1250
01:13:09,516 --> 01:13:12,083
I've come to think that maybe it's
my biggest asset as a writer.
1251
01:13:12,085 --> 01:13:14,485
That I'm basically
just like everybody else.
1252
01:13:17,388 --> 01:13:19,875
You know what? I'm not doing any
kind of faux thing with you.
1253
01:13:19,901 --> 01:13:21,158
And I'm not gonna say it again.
1254
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:25,162
Okay. But that faux thing? What you just
said is an example of the faux thing.
1255
01:13:25,164 --> 01:13:27,663
You're not willing to risk
giving the full you.
1256
01:13:29,666 --> 01:13:33,336
I don't know if you're
a very nice man or not.
1257
01:13:33,338 --> 01:13:36,171
It's very clear you don't
believe a word that I've said.
1258
01:13:38,074 --> 01:13:41,242
All your protesting? You
know... I'm just a regular guy?
1259
01:13:42,645 --> 01:13:44,712
You don't crack open
a thousand-page book...
1260
01:13:44,714 --> 01:13:46,980
because you heard the author
is a regular guy.
1261
01:13:46,982 --> 01:13:51,517
You do it because he's brilliant,
because you want him to be brilliant.
1262
01:13:51,519 --> 01:13:53,519
So, who the fuck
are you kidding?
1263
01:13:56,924 --> 01:14:00,059
I don't have the brain cells left to
play any kind of faux games with you.
1264
01:14:00,061 --> 01:14:01,461
Mm-hmm. It's fine. Yeah.
1265
01:14:01,463 --> 01:14:03,396
Yeah, it's fine.
1266
01:15:02,097 --> 01:15:03,864
What are you thinking?
1267
01:15:05,733 --> 01:15:08,936
Tour's over. Yeah.
That just hit you.
1268
01:15:08,938 --> 01:15:12,307
Yeah. I'm gonna have to
kinda feel all of this now,
1269
01:15:12,309 --> 01:15:14,442
instead of just
sleepwalk through it.
1270
01:15:14,444 --> 01:15:17,278
What do you mean sleepwalking?
1271
01:15:18,481 --> 01:15:21,850
I've sort of unplugged myself
the past three weeks.
1272
01:15:21,852 --> 01:15:24,653
Meeting a whole lot of new
people and having to do stuff,
1273
01:15:24,655 --> 01:15:28,023
you're in this constant
low-level state of anxiety.
1274
01:15:28,025 --> 01:15:31,026
This deep existential fear you feel
all the way down in your butt hole.
1275
01:15:32,128 --> 01:15:33,995
What are you afraid of?
I mean...
1276
01:15:33,997 --> 01:15:36,598
What's the worst
that could possibly happen?
1277
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,068
The worst? That I really get to like it.
That's the worst.
1278
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:41,769
The attention? Yeah.
1279
01:15:45,174 --> 01:15:46,807
What would be so wrong
with that?
1280
01:15:46,809 --> 01:15:50,578
Become one
of these hideous, like...
1281
01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:53,547
"Yet another publication party.
Hey, there's Dave.
1282
01:15:53,549 --> 01:15:56,517
Stickin' his head
in the back of the photo."
1283
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,357
- Rather be dead.
- Why?
1284
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:06,461
I don't wanna be seen that way.
Why, would you?
1285
01:16:08,197 --> 01:16:12,467
Well, if you're deriving your satisfaction
from talking about your work...
1286
01:16:12,469 --> 01:16:15,803
instead of actually writing,
then yeah.
1287
01:16:15,805 --> 01:16:17,971
I mean, I guess you'd get
a lot less done.
1288
01:16:17,973 --> 01:16:20,841
Exactly. There's nothing more grotesque
than somebody going around saying,
1289
01:16:20,843 --> 01:16:23,543
"I'm a writer. I'm a writer.
I'm a writer."
1290
01:16:24,812 --> 01:16:26,813
I don't mind appearing
in Rolling Stone.
1291
01:16:26,815 --> 01:16:28,848
I don't want to appear
in Rolling Stone...
1292
01:16:28,850 --> 01:16:31,985
as somebody who wants to be
in Rolling Stone.
1293
01:16:31,987 --> 01:16:35,521
If you see me on a game show in the
next couple of years, I swear to God...
1294
01:16:38,058 --> 01:16:40,659
To have written a book
about how seductive image is,
1295
01:16:40,661 --> 01:16:44,230
how easy it is to get seduced
off of any meaningful path...
1296
01:16:44,232 --> 01:16:46,398
because of the way
our culture is now...
1297
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:49,067
What if I become a parody
of that very thing?
1298
01:16:51,170 --> 01:16:53,471
You know, tomorrow,
you drive away.
1299
01:16:53,473 --> 01:16:56,942
And you get on a plane,
and this whole thing is over.
1300
01:16:56,944 --> 01:17:00,980
I go back to knowing, like,
20 people.
1301
01:17:00,982 --> 01:17:04,516
I'm gonna have to decompress from all this
attention, because it's like gettin'...
1302
01:17:04,518 --> 01:17:07,586
it's like gettin' heroin
injected into your cortex.
1303
01:17:07,588 --> 01:17:10,755
And where I'm gonna need
real balls, is to...
1304
01:17:11,623 --> 01:17:14,725
sit and go through that.
1305
01:17:15,827 --> 01:17:18,496
And try to remind myself
of what the reality is...
1306
01:17:18,498 --> 01:17:23,634
that I'm 34 years old and I'm alone
in a room with a piece of paper.
1307
01:17:43,825 --> 01:17:45,558
Hey. Here ya go.
1308
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:49,162
I'll never leave you again.
I swear.
1309
01:17:52,599 --> 01:17:54,967
All right. Shit check.
1310
01:17:56,903 --> 01:17:58,336
Look what you did.
1311
01:17:58,338 --> 01:18:00,138
Look what you did.
1312
01:18:00,140 --> 01:18:04,142
A little excremental work. Looks like
we won't need this anymore, huh?
1313
01:18:04,144 --> 01:18:06,912
It's all right. It happens
to the best of us. Huh, boy?
1314
01:18:06,914 --> 01:18:08,480
Never fails.
1315
01:18:08,482 --> 01:18:12,218
They wait to do their thing until
after the dog sitter leaves.
1316
01:18:12,220 --> 01:18:14,886
Make sure your Rolling Stone
readers hear about that.
1317
01:18:27,033 --> 01:18:30,803
Hey, so I'm-I'm leaving
tomorrow and, uh...
1318
01:18:32,772 --> 01:18:36,842
I gotta ask you
about this rumor.
1319
01:18:36,844 --> 01:18:38,677
Is this the heroin thing? Yeah.
1320
01:18:38,679 --> 01:18:40,779
This is the heroin thing again?
Yeah.
1321
01:18:40,781 --> 01:18:44,016
It isn't true. What is so
hard for you to believe?
1322
01:18:44,018 --> 01:18:46,752
The reason it is so hard to believe
is because there is so much...
1323
01:18:46,754 --> 01:18:48,755
about drugs and
addiction in the book.
1324
01:18:48,757 --> 01:18:50,223
That doesn't mean that
it's autobiographical.
1325
01:18:50,225 --> 01:18:54,027
The book stuff is meant to
be a metaphor. What is...
1326
01:18:54,029 --> 01:18:56,596
You don't believe a fuckin' word
that I've said, do you?
1327
01:18:56,598 --> 01:18:58,464
I didn't say that.
1328
01:18:58,466 --> 01:19:01,401
I was not...
I never was a heroin addict.
1329
01:19:01,403 --> 01:19:06,039
Okay. The rumor I heard was that in the
late '80s, when you were at Harvard,
1330
01:19:06,041 --> 01:19:08,574
you got involved with drugs, and
you had some kind of breakdown.
1331
01:19:08,576 --> 01:19:10,943
I don't know if...
1332
01:19:10,945 --> 01:19:14,013
I don't know if I had a breakdown.
I got very, very depressed.
1333
01:19:14,015 --> 01:19:17,383
I told you that. It had
nothing to do with drugs.
1334
01:19:17,385 --> 01:19:20,920
I have spent most of my life in libraries.
I never lived that dangerous kind of life.
1335
01:19:20,922 --> 01:19:22,721
And I would never stick
a needle into my arm...
1336
01:19:22,723 --> 01:19:24,555
Okay, so how do you think
that rumor got started?
1337
01:19:24,581 --> 01:19:25,324
I have no ide...
1338
01:19:25,326 --> 01:19:27,326
- I have no idea.
- All right. All right. Calm down.
1339
01:19:27,328 --> 01:19:32,131
And I'm telling you, if you were to
structure this as some sort of like,
1340
01:19:32,133 --> 01:19:35,634
"and then he spiraled into
terrible addiction" sort of thing,
1341
01:19:35,636 --> 01:19:37,837
it would be inaccurate.
1342
01:19:37,839 --> 01:19:41,574
It was much more that I got
more and more unhappy.
1343
01:19:41,576 --> 01:19:44,578
The more unhappy I got,
the more I would drink.
1344
01:19:44,580 --> 01:19:49,717
There was no joy in that drinking.
I used it for anesthesia.
1345
01:19:49,719 --> 01:19:52,286
Okay? Okay. What kind
of drinker were you?
1346
01:19:52,288 --> 01:19:55,390
Were you a kind of falling-down drinker?
Were you a "waking up in the curb" drinker?
1347
01:19:55,392 --> 01:19:57,759
No, I was not. Okay? All right.
1348
01:19:57,761 --> 01:20:00,796
A part of my reticence
about this whole thing...
1349
01:20:00,798 --> 01:20:04,166
is that it won't make
very good copy for you.
1350
01:20:04,168 --> 01:20:06,235
Because, no, I was not
like that at all.
1351
01:20:06,237 --> 01:20:08,837
You did agree to this interview.
I know that I did.
1352
01:20:08,839 --> 01:20:10,538
All right. I'm not gonna
push much further. Sorry.
1353
01:20:10,540 --> 01:20:14,276
I am also aware that some
addictions are sexier than others.
1354
01:20:14,278 --> 01:20:18,047
My primary addiction my entire
life has been to television.
1355
01:20:18,049 --> 01:20:20,616
I told you that.
Now television addiction...
1356
01:20:20,618 --> 01:20:25,621
is of far less interest to your
readers than something like heroin...
1357
01:20:25,623 --> 01:20:27,689
that confirms the mythos
of the writer.
1358
01:20:27,691 --> 01:20:29,457
Yeah, a myth I do not believe.
Okay? Right. No.
1359
01:20:29,459 --> 01:20:31,893
I know you don't believe that. I'm
also aware that one of the things...
1360
01:20:31,895 --> 01:20:34,729
that's swirlin' around here is you want to
have the best fuckin' article you can have.
1361
01:20:34,731 --> 01:20:37,365
See, you know what? Why don't you
write whatever the fuck you want.
1362
01:20:37,367 --> 01:20:41,668
I am telling you that this was not
a Lost Weekend sort of thing.
1363
01:20:41,670 --> 01:20:44,605
Nor was it some lurid,
romantic,
1364
01:20:44,607 --> 01:20:46,540
"writer as alcoholic"
sort of thing.
1365
01:20:46,542 --> 01:20:49,143
What it was,
was a 28-year-old person...
1366
01:20:49,145 --> 01:20:52,579
who had really exhausted
a couple other ways to live,
1367
01:20:52,581 --> 01:20:54,648
had really taken them
to their conclusion.
1368
01:20:54,650 --> 01:20:58,885
Which for me was a pink room with a
drain in the center of the floor,
1369
01:20:58,887 --> 01:21:02,622
which is where they put me for an entire day
when they thought that I was gonna kill myself.
1370
01:21:04,257 --> 01:21:08,694
Where I got nothin' on. I got someone
observing me through a slot in the wall.
1371
01:21:10,029 --> 01:21:13,999
And when that happens to you,
you become tremendously,
1372
01:21:14,001 --> 01:21:17,135
just unprecedentedly willing...
1373
01:21:17,137 --> 01:21:20,339
to examine some other
alternatives for how to live.
1374
01:22:20,273 --> 01:22:21,873
You awake?
1375
01:22:23,075 --> 01:22:25,310
Yeah.
1376
01:22:26,412 --> 01:22:28,245
I was just thinking, um...
1377
01:22:31,216 --> 01:22:34,184
It wasn't a chemical imbalance,
and it wasn't drugs and alcohol.
1378
01:22:34,186 --> 01:22:35,786
I think, um...
1379
01:22:37,188 --> 01:22:41,391
It was much more that I had lived
an incredibly American life.
1380
01:22:41,393 --> 01:22:47,799
This idea that if I could just achieve X and
Y and Z, that everything would be okay.
1381
01:22:53,638 --> 01:22:58,976
There's a thing in the book about how when
somebody leaps from a burning skyscraper,
1382
01:22:58,978 --> 01:23:01,212
it's not that they're not afraid
of falling anymore.
1383
01:23:01,214 --> 01:23:05,149
It's that the alternative
is so awful.
1384
01:23:05,151 --> 01:23:08,753
And so then you're invited to
consider what could be so awful...
1385
01:23:08,755 --> 01:23:13,057
that leaping to your death would
seem like an escape from it.
1386
01:23:14,726 --> 01:23:17,895
I don't know if you have any
experience with this kind of thing.
1387
01:23:17,897 --> 01:23:20,397
But it's worse than any kind
of physical injury.
1388
01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:26,403
It may be in the old days what was
known as a spiritual crisis...
1389
01:23:30,242 --> 01:23:32,810
feeling as though every axiom in
your life turned out to be false...
1390
01:23:32,812 --> 01:23:35,512
and there was actually nothing.
1391
01:23:36,781 --> 01:23:39,582
And that you were nothing.
1392
01:23:39,584 --> 01:23:43,920
And that it's all a delusion and you're
so much better than everybody...
1393
01:23:43,922 --> 01:23:46,222
'cause you can see
how this is just a delusion,
1394
01:23:46,224 --> 01:23:49,559
and you're so much worse because
you can't fucking function.
1395
01:23:53,663 --> 01:23:55,831
It's really horrible.
1396
01:24:01,671 --> 01:24:04,372
I don't think
that we ever change.
1397
01:24:08,010 --> 01:24:11,045
I'm sure that I still have
those same parts of me.
1398
01:24:17,453 --> 01:24:20,956
Guess I'm trying really hard to
find a way not to let them drive.
1399
01:24:24,861 --> 01:24:26,528
You know?
1400
01:24:35,537 --> 01:24:39,307
Hey, um, okay. Good night.
1401
01:25:16,114 --> 01:25:18,616
Hi.
1402
01:25:18,618 --> 01:25:20,618
Okay. Hi.
1403
01:25:26,625 --> 01:25:29,961
Hey. Good morning.
Good morning.
1404
01:25:45,844 --> 01:25:47,477
Mornin', man.
1405
01:25:56,855 --> 01:25:59,657
Come on, boys.
Let's go. Good boys.
1406
01:26:01,126 --> 01:26:03,166
Come on. What are you doing?
1407
01:26:10,902 --> 01:26:12,536
Jeeves!
1408
01:26:13,504 --> 01:26:15,137
Jeeves, come on, boy.
1409
01:26:23,881 --> 01:26:27,460
You get instantaneous production
from the Jeeve-meister.
1410
01:26:27,486 --> 01:26:29,218
Drone's a much tougher nut.
1411
01:26:29,220 --> 01:26:32,789
- It is so beautiful out here.
- Yeah.
1412
01:26:32,791 --> 01:26:35,491
You should see it in the spring
when the wind blows.
1413
01:26:35,493 --> 01:26:38,828
You can see ripples.
It's like water.
1414
01:26:38,830 --> 01:26:42,032
- It's like the ocean, but real green.
- Mmm.
1415
01:26:42,034 --> 01:26:43,767
It really is.
1416
01:26:45,737 --> 01:26:48,371
It's kind of calm. Real pretty.
1417
01:26:50,374 --> 01:26:53,309
You hungry? Uh, yeah. Kind of.
1418
01:26:53,311 --> 01:26:57,313
But, um... God, I don't
think I want to go back.
1419
01:26:58,148 --> 01:27:00,430
Yeah, I know how you feel.
1420
01:27:04,186 --> 01:27:06,955
Should probably get going though.
Okay.
1421
01:27:06,957 --> 01:27:10,188
Hey, let me take you
someplace nice this time.
1422
01:27:10,214 --> 01:27:11,450
It'll be on Jann.
1423
01:27:14,564 --> 01:27:16,397
Thanks for holding the bag, man.
Of course.
1424
01:27:16,399 --> 01:27:18,760
I gotta eat something. I'm,
like, suddenly starving. Mmm.
1425
01:27:23,972 --> 01:27:26,473
You don't like pickles.
Oh, come on.
1426
01:27:26,475 --> 01:27:28,208
What? What, the whole
world needs to know...
1427
01:27:28,210 --> 01:27:30,277
what my mother's known for
years... I'm a picky eater?
1428
01:27:30,279 --> 01:27:32,012
Okay, I'm putting it away.
Thank you.
1429
01:27:32,014 --> 01:27:33,513
All right.
1430
01:27:33,515 --> 01:27:35,014
Can I give 'em a fry?
1431
01:27:35,016 --> 01:27:36,316
No. Come on.
1432
01:27:36,318 --> 01:27:38,117
All right, go for it.
Hey, Jeeve-meister.
1433
01:27:38,119 --> 01:27:39,718
Hey!
1434
01:27:40,686 --> 01:27:41,953
Watch this. What?
1435
01:27:41,955 --> 01:27:44,956
Jeeves. Jeeves. Sit.
1436
01:27:44,958 --> 01:27:48,160
Jeeves, sit. Sit.
1437
01:27:48,162 --> 01:27:49,761
Sit. Perfect.
1438
01:27:49,763 --> 01:27:53,532
Sit. God. Drone gets super
obedient when food is around.
1439
01:27:53,534 --> 01:27:55,800
Jeeves is still
kind of a wild man.
1440
01:27:55,802 --> 01:27:58,769
Do not leave food out around him.
He will go for it.
1441
01:27:59,538 --> 01:28:01,539
Good boy.
1442
01:28:01,541 --> 01:28:03,073
You're such a good...
1443
01:28:03,075 --> 01:28:05,676
You're not gonna make me look like
I'm one of those insane old women...
1444
01:28:05,678 --> 01:28:07,778
who talks to their dogs, are you?
Um, no.
1445
01:28:07,780 --> 01:28:09,179
Don't worry about it.
1446
01:28:09,181 --> 01:28:11,549
I am worried about it. My
dogs are gonna be offended.
1447
01:28:11,551 --> 01:28:14,218
The dogs are not gonna
read this article.
1448
01:28:14,220 --> 01:28:16,420
I gotta tell you. Hmm?
1449
01:28:16,422 --> 01:28:19,223
They've never taken to a man
the way they've taken to you.
1450
01:28:19,225 --> 01:28:20,624
Really? Nah.
1451
01:28:20,626 --> 01:28:22,392
Except me, of course.
Yeah. Yeah.
1452
01:28:22,394 --> 01:28:24,795
Oh. Can you hold this?
1453
01:28:24,797 --> 01:28:26,730
Yeah, of course.
1454
01:28:32,903 --> 01:28:34,470
Hello?
1455
01:28:35,238 --> 01:28:37,573
Hey.
1456
01:28:38,441 --> 01:28:40,442
Yes, I would like to, um...
1457
01:28:40,444 --> 01:28:42,445
I can't right now.
I got this guy here.
1458
01:28:42,447 --> 01:28:44,180
What guy?
1459
01:28:47,016 --> 01:28:49,151
Rolling Stone guy, yeah.
1460
01:28:50,052 --> 01:28:52,412
You know, can I just
meet you there?
1461
01:28:53,321 --> 01:28:56,424
Okay. Great. Yeah, perfect.
1462
01:28:56,426 --> 01:28:58,426
I'll see you then. Bye.
1463
01:29:02,230 --> 01:29:03,830
All right. Well, I should...
1464
01:29:03,832 --> 01:29:06,600
I should probably get out of here,
let you get on with your life.
1465
01:29:06,602 --> 01:29:11,303
That's, no... It's... There's just
this dance that I like to go to.
1466
01:29:12,139 --> 01:29:13,939
Sorry. You dance?
1467
01:29:13,941 --> 01:29:15,607
Yeah.
1468
01:29:15,609 --> 01:29:18,010
It's something I've discovered over
the past couple years I really like.
1469
01:29:18,012 --> 01:29:19,478
Although I'm not that good
at it yet.
1470
01:29:19,480 --> 01:29:21,413
Wait, sorry.
What kind of dancing?
1471
01:29:22,348 --> 01:29:24,950
I tend to do, like,
the jerk, the swim.
1472
01:29:24,952 --> 01:29:27,652
You know, like,
cheesy '70s disco.
1473
01:29:27,654 --> 01:29:30,722
Really? Yeah. It's one of the
things about living in Bloomington.
1474
01:29:30,724 --> 01:29:33,257
It's like a time warp. You're
completely hip if you do that.
1475
01:29:33,259 --> 01:29:36,427
Yeah, right. So, where do you go?
To a club?
1476
01:29:37,395 --> 01:29:39,435
I go to this Baptist church.
1477
01:29:40,030 --> 01:29:41,564
Why... Why do you go there?
1478
01:29:42,098 --> 01:29:43,798
Baptists can dance.
1479
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,967
Wow. Dancing.
1480
01:29:46,969 --> 01:29:48,736
I will not vogue.
1481
01:29:48,738 --> 01:29:52,005
That is where I put my foot
down. I do not vogue.
1482
01:29:52,007 --> 01:29:55,075
Yeah. It's really cool though.
Like a lot of people show up.
1483
01:29:55,077 --> 01:29:57,343
And they got their
dancin' shoes on.
1484
01:29:57,345 --> 01:30:01,614
It's good. It's nice. Everyone for the
most part just leaves each other alone.
1485
01:30:06,319 --> 01:30:08,987
I thought it might be nice
before you go, if...
1486
01:30:08,989 --> 01:30:13,125
uh, maybe we could exchange
address data or something?
1487
01:30:13,127 --> 01:30:14,759
Yeah. Absolutely.
1488
01:30:14,761 --> 01:30:18,096
Yeah. I'll get my stuff together.
Great.
1489
01:30:18,098 --> 01:30:20,598
I'll start carving an ice
sculpture out of my car.
1490
01:30:20,624 --> 01:30:22,191
It's like Antarctica out there.
1491
01:30:44,892 --> 01:30:49,096
Uh, dog stuff. Throw toys. Chew toys.
Crap stains on carpet.
1492
01:30:49,098 --> 01:30:54,001
Uh, fireplace. American flag.
Shark doll on bookcase.
1493
01:30:54,003 --> 01:30:56,236
Alanis poster. Uh, soda cans.
1494
01:30:56,238 --> 01:30:58,638
Lots of them. There's Pepsi.
There's Mountain Dew.
1495
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,509
Um, looks like a frat.
A kind of bookish frat.
1496
01:31:02,511 --> 01:31:05,211
Uh, there's a Botticelli
calendar... Birth of Venus.
1497
01:31:05,213 --> 01:31:09,315
Uh, wooden chess set.
Postcard of Updike.
1498
01:31:09,317 --> 01:31:14,286
Um, brain comparison...
male, female, dog. Cartoon.
1499
01:31:15,688 --> 01:31:18,123
In the bedroom, there is a
Barney towel used as a curtain.
1500
01:31:18,125 --> 01:31:20,892
There is a tennis ball. There's
a dental floss on top of books.
1501
01:31:20,894 --> 01:31:24,096
There's a photo collage of his family,
the kind kids put in their dorm rooms.
1502
01:31:24,098 --> 01:31:28,033
His sister is kind of pretty. She
looks like a female version of him.
1503
01:31:28,035 --> 01:31:30,879
There is, uh, stuff everywhere.
Clothes everywhere.
1504
01:31:30,905 --> 01:31:32,137
Sneakers on the floor.
1505
01:31:32,139 --> 01:31:33,938
Clothes draped over stuff.
1506
01:31:35,775 --> 01:31:37,442
Uh...
1507
01:31:37,444 --> 01:31:40,711
Blue toilet-seat cover,
looks like a rug.
1508
01:31:40,713 --> 01:31:44,115
Postcards.
Clintons, um, baboons.
1509
01:31:44,117 --> 01:31:46,817
A Saint Ignatius quote.
1510
01:31:46,819 --> 01:31:49,821
"Lord, teach me to be generous. Teach
me to serve you as you deserve."
1511
01:31:49,823 --> 01:31:53,659
To give and not to count the cost.
To toil and not to seek for rest.
1512
01:31:53,661 --> 01:31:56,628
To labor and not to ask
for reward...
1513
01:31:56,630 --> 01:31:59,998
"save that of knowing
that I do your will."
1514
01:33:27,395 --> 01:33:29,095
Hey.
1515
01:33:29,097 --> 01:33:31,998
Tell you what. Riding around
in that rental of yours.
1516
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:35,134
That feeling of gliding? This thing
doesn't even have shock absorbers.
1517
01:33:35,136 --> 01:33:36,669
What... What is it?
1518
01:33:36,671 --> 01:33:38,270
It's just an old Civic.
1519
01:33:38,272 --> 01:33:41,374
I know it doesn't look like much.
But, man, this thing starts.
1520
01:33:41,376 --> 01:33:44,043
It's actually a problem.
Why is that a problem?
1521
01:33:44,045 --> 01:33:46,925
I gotta get a new one, but I
can't junk this. Why not?
1522
01:33:47,980 --> 01:33:49,213
It's my friend.
1523
01:33:49,215 --> 01:33:50,981
Ah.
1524
01:33:53,585 --> 01:33:55,152
Hey, David. I, uh...
1525
01:33:56,354 --> 01:33:58,188
Wow. Just happened
to have one on you, huh?
1526
01:33:58,190 --> 01:34:02,392
Yeah. I mean, I... I did debate
whether or not I should do this.
1527
01:34:02,394 --> 01:34:04,026
Why? I don't know.
1528
01:34:04,028 --> 01:34:07,797
Don't you think it's some kind of
kid-brother sort of thing to do?
1529
01:34:07,799 --> 01:34:11,033
No. Thank you. I look
forward to reading this.
1530
01:34:11,035 --> 01:34:15,304
Oh, you're welcome. I put my
address and e-mail on the flyleaf.
1531
01:34:15,306 --> 01:34:18,341
Oh. Okay. Cool.
1532
01:34:18,343 --> 01:34:22,611
I'll, uh... Yeah, I'll read it after I finish
the Heinlein, and I'll send you a note.
1533
01:34:22,613 --> 01:34:25,615
That's great. Thanks.
1534
01:34:25,617 --> 01:34:28,483
Be interesting to be inside
your head for a while.
1535
01:34:30,420 --> 01:34:33,288
I like your cover.
Yeah. Yeah, me too.
1536
01:34:33,290 --> 01:34:36,625
I actually had them use the same
art for the British edition.
1537
01:34:36,627 --> 01:34:39,427
Come on. You got
approval, and I d...
1538
01:34:44,066 --> 01:34:45,466
It's nice. It's very nice.
1539
01:34:45,468 --> 01:34:49,070
Don't worry about it. It was not
such a... not such a big success.
1540
01:35:07,992 --> 01:35:10,860
Hey, isn't it at all reassuring to
have a lot of people read you...
1541
01:35:10,862 --> 01:35:13,903
and, you know, say that you're
a really strong writer?
1542
01:35:15,932 --> 01:35:18,634
It'll be interesting to
talk to you in a few years.
1543
01:35:18,636 --> 01:35:20,469
Why do you say that?
1544
01:35:21,637 --> 01:35:24,573
My experience is that
that is not so.
1545
01:35:26,909 --> 01:35:29,043
The more people think
you're really great,
1546
01:35:29,045 --> 01:35:31,813
actually the bigger the fear
of being a fraud is, you know?
1547
01:35:31,815 --> 01:35:34,949
The worst thing about getting a
lot of attention paid to you...
1548
01:35:34,951 --> 01:35:36,918
is that you're afraid
of bad attention.
1549
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,453
And if bad attention hurts you,
1550
01:35:39,455 --> 01:35:43,290
the caliber of the weapon
pointing at you has gone way up.
1551
01:35:43,292 --> 01:35:46,660
Like from a .22 to a .45. Mmm.
1552
01:35:46,662 --> 01:35:50,430
Look, there are parts of me that want a lot
of attention and think I'm really great...
1553
01:35:50,432 --> 01:35:52,965
and want other people
to see it.
1554
01:35:55,002 --> 01:35:58,704
I think that's one of the ways you
and I are sort of alike, you know?
1555
01:36:00,140 --> 01:36:03,775
All right. Hey, uh... All right.
1556
01:36:09,682 --> 01:36:11,784
Fuck. David.
1557
01:36:15,988 --> 01:36:18,270
I'm not so sure
you want to be me.
1558
01:36:19,224 --> 01:36:20,691
I don't.
1559
01:36:21,659 --> 01:36:24,094
Give my best to Jann.
1560
01:38:24,533 --> 01:38:26,734
"When I think of this trip,".
1561
01:38:26,736 --> 01:38:30,871
I see David and me
in the front seat of his car.
1562
01:38:30,873 --> 01:38:33,673
We are both so young.
1563
01:38:33,675 --> 01:38:35,909
He wants something better
than he has.
1564
01:38:35,911 --> 01:38:39,479
I want precisely
what he has already.
1565
01:38:39,481 --> 01:38:43,116
Neither of us knows where
our lives are going to go.
1566
01:38:44,451 --> 01:38:46,819
It smells like chewing tobacco,
1567
01:38:46,821 --> 01:38:50,390
soda and smoke.
1568
01:38:50,392 --> 01:38:54,461
And the conversation is
the best one I ever had.
1569
01:38:59,634 --> 01:39:04,737
David thought books existed
to stop you from feeling lonely.
1570
01:39:04,739 --> 01:39:08,208
If I could, I'd say to David that
living those days with him...
1571
01:39:08,210 --> 01:39:10,076
reminded me
of what life is like,
1572
01:39:10,078 --> 01:39:13,980
instead of being
a relief from it.
1573
01:39:15,415 --> 01:39:19,018
"And I'd tell him it made
me feel much less alone."
1574
01:40:51,191 --> 01:40:52,859
I need to use your bathroom
for a second.
1575
01:40:52,861 --> 01:40:55,461
I believe it's unoccupied.
1576
01:41:09,174 --> 01:41:11,543
It's me talkin'
into the tape recorder.
1577
01:41:14,947 --> 01:41:18,750
And Drone's sittin' behind me
just chillin' out.
1578
01:41:18,752 --> 01:41:22,587
I'm smoking. Having just said I
wouldn't smoke, I'm smoking.
1579
01:41:25,625 --> 01:41:28,059
Just me and your tape recorder.