1
00:00:40,485 --> 00:00:42,405
- Paradoxical.
2
00:00:43,973 --> 00:00:45,512
- Bold.
3
00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:47,173
- Yeah.
4
00:00:49,189 --> 00:00:50,956
- Mysterious.
5
00:00:50,981 --> 00:00:52,236
- Eccentric.
6
00:00:52,261 --> 00:00:53,515
- Eccentric.
7
00:00:54,181 --> 00:00:55,469
- Private.
8
00:00:55,494 --> 00:00:58,156
- She was
a very, very private woman.
9
00:00:58,181 --> 00:01:01,454
- I never had any idea
she took pictures.
10
00:01:01,958 --> 00:01:04,752
- She would take photographs-
many, many photographs.
11
00:01:04,774 --> 00:01:07,152
- She would never have
let this happen.
12
00:01:07,173 --> 00:01:09,421
- Is there anything
that you wish
13
00:01:09,445 --> 00:01:11,628
you would have done differently
then?
14
00:01:11,654 --> 00:01:13,357
- Sure, I wish I would have
found those negatives
15
00:01:13,382 --> 00:01:14,440
instead of you.
16
00:01:44,263 --> 00:01:46,347
- It was winter 2007.
17
00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:53,704
The auction house is across
the street from my home.
18
00:01:53,736 --> 00:01:57,904
I found this box
that was loaded with negatives.
19
00:01:59,112 --> 00:02:00,683
- 75, there we go, $80.
20
00:02:00,712 --> 00:02:02,199
- I was writing a history book,
21
00:02:02,235 --> 00:02:04,978
and I needed
a lot of historic photos.
22
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,350
And so I would, like, you know,
take the negatives
23
00:02:07,375 --> 00:02:08,862
and I'd look up into the light,
24
00:02:08,890 --> 00:02:10,840
and I'd look for images
of Chicago.
25
00:02:10,868 --> 00:02:12,175
-150, 160.
26
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,376
- There were several boxes
that went with the set.
27
00:02:15,401 --> 00:02:17,517
I just went for the biggest one.
28
00:02:17,545 --> 00:02:19,378
- 39 is your buyer.
29
00:02:19,401 --> 00:02:20,841
39 is your buyer.
30
00:02:20,873 --> 00:02:23,089
- I won it for-
I think it was $380.
31
00:02:23,113 --> 00:02:27,118
The auction house
told me the photographer,
32
00:02:27,146 --> 00:02:28,586
her name was Vivian Maier.
33
00:02:32,425 --> 00:02:34,826
Google searched her.
Nothing at all.
34
00:02:34,858 --> 00:02:36,974
I mean, absolutely nothing.
35
00:02:37,002 --> 00:02:39,763
So I just kind of gave up
for a while.
36
00:02:39,785 --> 00:02:42,644
I looked at some of the stuff
that night, and it was cool,
37
00:02:42,665 --> 00:02:46,059
but nothing worked for the book,
so I just put it in the closet.
38
00:02:46,090 --> 00:02:47,312
Just had to figure out,
39
00:02:47,338 --> 00:02:49,390
"What am I gonna do
with this stuff?"
40
00:02:49,418 --> 00:02:53,554
That's what sparked me
to start scanning it.
41
00:02:57,355 --> 00:03:00,661
I have a reflex
where we'll be driving somewhere
42
00:03:00,683 --> 00:03:02,313
and I'll just, like,
spot something
43
00:03:02,350 --> 00:03:05,551
from down the road
that I know what it is
44
00:03:05,579 --> 00:03:07,478
and I know that it's valuable.
45
00:03:07,499 --> 00:03:10,293
I grew up doing the flea markets
with my brother.
46
00:03:10,315 --> 00:03:13,490
My father did it.
His father did it.
47
00:03:13,515 --> 00:03:16,821
I would do storage auctions
with my brother,
48
00:03:16,843 --> 00:03:19,637
and he'd win some,
and we'd clean them out.
49
00:03:19,659 --> 00:03:23,413
We threw out tons of negatives,
50
00:03:23,436 --> 00:03:25,138
'cause there's no value
in negatives
51
00:03:25,163 --> 00:03:28,404
to most resale people.
52
00:03:28,428 --> 00:03:30,894
In these negatives
that I discovered,
53
00:03:30,924 --> 00:03:32,309
what I saw at first,
54
00:03:32,332 --> 00:03:34,417
I didn't know
if it was really good.
55
00:03:34,444 --> 00:03:36,528
I knew that I thought
it was good.
56
00:03:36,556 --> 00:03:39,251
I contacted a couple galleries.
57
00:03:39,276 --> 00:03:41,906
I didn't know where to go.
58
00:03:41,933 --> 00:03:45,971
I made a photo blog,
and I put about 200 images up.
59
00:03:54,669 --> 00:03:55,340
##
60
00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:25,337
I put a link on Flickr.
61
00:04:30,158 --> 00:04:34,261
That post, it just went insane.
62
00:04:47,664 --> 00:04:50,042
So I went on this mission
63
00:04:50,063 --> 00:04:52,464
to piece together
the rest of her work.
64
00:04:54,128 --> 00:04:55,732
And then I found
the other people
65
00:04:55,759 --> 00:04:58,324
who bought boxes
and I bought their boxes.
66
00:04:58,352 --> 00:04:59,982
And then I had
all these negatives-
67
00:05:00,019 --> 00:05:02,397
like, insane amounts
of negatives.
68
00:05:03,888 --> 00:05:08,275
You always want to know,
who is behind the work?
69
00:05:09,297 --> 00:05:12,690
I just knew
her name was Vivian Maier.
70
00:05:12,721 --> 00:05:14,739
Was she a journalist?
71
00:05:14,768 --> 00:05:17,431
Professional photographer?
72
00:05:17,457 --> 00:05:19,672
Let me just Google her name
again
73
00:05:19,697 --> 00:05:21,617
to see if there's anything up.
74
00:05:23,248 --> 00:05:25,431
And I found an obituary
75
00:05:25,457 --> 00:05:28,850
that was placed just a few days
before that search.
76
00:05:30,225 --> 00:05:34,492
I found an address in her stuff.
77
00:05:34,513 --> 00:05:36,946
And after some, like,
white page searches,
78
00:05:36,978 --> 00:05:40,917
I called and I said,
79
00:05:40,945 --> 00:05:45,267
"I have the work, the negatives
of Vivian Maier."
80
00:05:45,298 --> 00:05:47,120
And he's like,
"That was my nanny."
81
00:05:49,394 --> 00:05:50,813
That was his nanny?
82
00:05:52,914 --> 00:05:55,260
Why is a nanny...
83
00:05:56,562 --> 00:05:58,265
Taking all these photos?
84
00:06:00,883 --> 00:06:05,978
What they started to tell me
about her was-was strange.
85
00:06:08,627 --> 00:06:10,678
They said,
"She was kind of a loner.
86
00:06:10,707 --> 00:06:12,769
"She didn't have any family
that we knew of.
87
00:06:12,787 --> 00:06:16,115
"She never had any love life
or children that we knew of.
88
00:06:16,148 --> 00:06:17,686
But she was like our mother."
89
00:06:20,084 --> 00:06:23,412
So it just caught my curiosity.
90
00:06:23,443 --> 00:06:26,554
So what I said was,
"Do you have any of her stuff?"
91
00:06:26,580 --> 00:06:29,940
And they said, "Well, I've been
keeping up the bills"
92
00:06:29,972 --> 00:06:31,075
"on her storage locker.
93
00:06:31,092 --> 00:06:32,818
"We want to throw
all this stuff out.
94
00:06:32,855 --> 00:06:33,847
She was a pack rat."
95
00:06:33,876 --> 00:06:35,890
I said, "No, no, no,
don't throw anything."
96
00:06:35,916 --> 00:06:37,451
He's like,
"You don't understand.
97
00:06:37,487 --> 00:06:39,544
"She was a pack rat.
98
00:06:39,572 --> 00:06:41,177
"We're gonna get a dumpster.
99
00:06:41,205 --> 00:06:42,883
"You're welcome to come
and help us.
100
00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:44,483
"If you see anything
that you like
101
00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:46,538
that we're gonna throw out,
you can have."
102
00:06:48,148 --> 00:06:51,935
I just wanted to go find out
who she was, just a quick thing.
103
00:06:59,317 --> 00:07:02,492
I found this leather chest.
104
00:07:02,517 --> 00:07:03,903
It was, like, taped shut
105
00:07:03,925 --> 00:07:06,937
with just, like, box tape
or something.
106
00:07:06,966 --> 00:07:11,036
And so we cut it
and we opened it,
107
00:07:11,062 --> 00:07:16,816
and it was filled to the top
with rolls of undeveloped film.
108
00:07:17,654 --> 00:07:21,047
I took one canister
and I shook it,
109
00:07:21,078 --> 00:07:22,910
and it rattled.
110
00:07:22,934 --> 00:07:26,394
So I opened it,
and there was teeth inside.
111
00:07:31,223 --> 00:07:36,977
She had stuff wedged and hidden
in everything that she had,
112
00:07:37,302 --> 00:07:40,380
almost like it's like
a secret little hiding spot
113
00:07:40,407 --> 00:07:42,174
for all of her little things.
114
00:07:42,198 --> 00:07:47,261
A coupon, a note, a flyer,
bus passes to train cards,
115
00:07:47,287 --> 00:07:50,495
her hats, shoes,
116
00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:53,401
her coats, her blouses.
117
00:07:53,431 --> 00:07:56,290
I have uncashed
income tax checks
118
00:07:56,311 --> 00:07:57,304
from the government
119
00:07:57,336 --> 00:07:59,136
amounting to
thousands of dollars.
120
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,397
I have around 100,000 negatives.
121
00:08:14,425 --> 00:08:17,884
I have 700 rolls
of undeveloped color film,
122
00:08:17,913 --> 00:08:21,503
2,000 undeveloped rolls
of black-and-white film.
123
00:08:21,529 --> 00:08:24,889
I realized everything needs
to be organized and scanned
124
00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:26,427
and archived.
125
00:08:26,457 --> 00:08:30,113
But it was more
than I can handle myself.
126
00:08:30,137 --> 00:08:33,826
So I thought, "Let's see what
the museums will do to help me."
127
00:08:33,849 --> 00:08:35,431
"Maybe I could get this
into MoMA.
128
00:08:35,455 --> 00:08:37,572
Maybe I could get this
into Tate Modern."
129
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,034
I sent them letters,
and here is the reply.
130
00:08:44,474 --> 00:08:46,689
"Dear Mr. Maloof,
on behalf of the curators,
131
00:08:46,714 --> 00:08:47,961
"I would like to thank you
132
00:08:47,962 --> 00:08:50,078
"for thinking of the Department
of Photography at MoMA.
133
00:08:50,106 --> 00:08:52,216
"Unfortunately,
the museum cannot accommodate
134
00:08:52,253 --> 00:08:53,955
these photographs at this time."
135
00:08:55,450 --> 00:09:00,219
At that point,
I just figured I'm on my own.
136
00:09:02,714 --> 00:09:04,995
I'm gonna try to do
an exhibition.
137
00:09:05,018 --> 00:09:07,518
I'm gonna do a book.
138
00:09:07,546 --> 00:09:09,827
It's an insane amount of work.
139
00:09:09,851 --> 00:09:14,052
I'm kind of compulsive
with stuff.
140
00:09:14,075 --> 00:09:17,468
I just wanted people to see
this incredible work.
141
00:09:19,003 --> 00:09:20,509
And I applied for a show
142
00:09:20,539 --> 00:09:22,176
at the Cultural Center
in Chicago.
143
00:09:31,451 --> 00:09:34,332
They said this was
the biggest turnout
144
00:09:34,364 --> 00:09:37,856
for any artist
they had ever had.
145
00:09:39,068 --> 00:09:41,534
And then the story
just took off.
146
00:09:46,812 --> 00:09:48,443
- The history
of street photography
147
00:09:48,472 --> 00:09:49,410
is currently being re-written.
148
00:09:49,432 --> 00:09:50,977
- Vivian Maier.
- Vivian Maier.
149
00:09:51,004 --> 00:09:52,030
- Vivian Maier'?
150
00:09:52,060 --> 00:09:53,697
- Saved from obscurity.
151
00:09:53,724 --> 00:09:55,873
- In death,
she is getting the fame
152
00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:57,570
that she never had in life.
153
00:09:57,597 --> 00:09:59,681
- John Maloof is still working
his way
154
00:09:59,709 --> 00:10:01,858
through all Maier's negatives.
155
00:10:01,885 --> 00:10:05,824
- My mission is to put Vivian
in the history books.
156
00:10:09,501 --> 00:10:11,585
- My first impression
when I saw the work
157
00:10:11,613 --> 00:10:15,749
was the kind of delight
when a surprise comes your way
158
00:10:15,773 --> 00:10:19,712
and you feel that somebody
hitherto undiscovered
159
00:10:19,742 --> 00:10:21,641
suddenly makes their work
available
160
00:10:21,662 --> 00:10:23,168
and it looks good.
161
00:10:23,198 --> 00:10:26,438
It looks like
there's an authentic eye
162
00:10:26,462 --> 00:10:29,441
and a real savvy
about human nature
163
00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:32,514
and photography and the street.
164
00:10:32,542 --> 00:10:35,139
And that kind of thing
doesn't happen that often.
165
00:10:35,166 --> 00:10:36,771
I see thousands of pictures.
166
00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:39,560
Day after day, people send me
their websites to look at,
167
00:10:39,583 --> 00:10:41,021
and when I flick through them,
168
00:10:41,058 --> 00:10:43,461
I feel most of them
are undistinguished.
169
00:10:43,487 --> 00:10:47,623
But Vivian's work
instantly had those qualities
170
00:10:47,647 --> 00:10:52,099
of human understanding
and warmth and playfulness
171
00:10:52,128 --> 00:10:55,270
that I thought,
"This is a genuine shooter."
172
00:10:56,607 --> 00:10:58,212
- She had a great eye.
173
00:10:59,775 --> 00:11:02,438
She-great sense of framing.
174
00:11:02,464 --> 00:11:04,101
What is she looking at here?
175
00:11:04,128 --> 00:11:05,614
I can't-this is the first one-
176
00:11:05,638 --> 00:11:07,604
- It's a muddy
construction worker's butt.
177
00:11:07,641 --> 00:11:10,217
- My God.
178
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,673
She had a sense of humor
179
00:11:12,704 --> 00:11:15,912
and a sense of tragedy.
180
00:11:18,305 --> 00:11:20,324
Beautiful.
181
00:11:20,352 --> 00:11:24,161
Her photos of children
are beautiful.
182
00:11:24,193 --> 00:11:27,979
Beautiful sense of light,
environment-
183
00:11:28,001 --> 00:11:30,217
I mean, she had it all.
184
00:11:30,241 --> 00:11:32,740
Was she very prolific?
Did she shoot a lot?
185
00:11:32,769 --> 00:11:36,577
- In total, there's
about 150,000 negatives.
186
00:11:36,609 --> 00:11:38,628
- She shot a lot.
187
00:11:38,657 --> 00:11:40,840
She never showed her work
to anybody?
188
00:11:42,785 --> 00:11:44,608
- That's what I'm trying
to figure out.
189
00:11:44,644 --> 00:11:46,024
So far, no.
190
00:11:46,049 --> 00:11:48,063
- I think people
would have loved her work.
191
00:11:48,962 --> 00:11:51,145
I mean, I could even say
Robert Frank
192
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:54,149
with a square format.
193
00:11:54,178 --> 00:11:56,011
Lisette Model?
194
00:11:57,314 --> 00:11:59,399
Helen Levitt, definitely.
195
00:12:00,482 --> 00:12:04,171
Diane Arbus,
some of the street portraits.
196
00:12:05,443 --> 00:12:06,829
Had she made herself known,
197
00:12:06,851 --> 00:12:10,310
she would have become
a famous photographer.
198
00:12:10,339 --> 00:12:12,009
Something was wrong. Something-
199
00:12:12,034 --> 00:12:16,683
There's-there's a piece
of the puzzle missing.
200
00:12:16,707 --> 00:12:19,020
That's beautiful.
201
00:12:20,803 --> 00:12:22,506
- I really want to know,
202
00:12:22,531 --> 00:12:24,582
why did Vivian make
these images?
203
00:12:24,611 --> 00:12:28,070
What drove her
to such compulsion,
204
00:12:28,099 --> 00:12:31,559
to an obsessive degree,
to take so many pictures?
205
00:12:31,587 --> 00:12:33,966
Why were they never shown?
206
00:12:35,075 --> 00:12:38,764
I started to unbox
all of her stuff.
207
00:12:39,107 --> 00:12:42,501
I'm finding leads, you know,
receipts that she had.
208
00:12:42,532 --> 00:12:47,595
But her-her receipts
are from the '70s and '80s,
209
00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:49,355
and in the '70s and '80s
in Chicago,
210
00:12:49,380 --> 00:12:51,693
there was no area code.
211
00:12:51,717 --> 00:12:54,030
And I started calling
these phone numbers,
212
00:12:54,053 --> 00:12:56,519
attaching every
various area code-
213
00:12:56,548 --> 00:13:01,382
773, 312, 708, 847, 630, 815.
214
00:13:01,413 --> 00:13:03,694
- Was she ever a nanny
for the Usiskin family?
215
00:13:03,717 --> 00:13:05,135
- Yes.
216
00:13:05,157 --> 00:13:06,827
- My gosh!
217
00:13:06,853 --> 00:13:09,483
Yeah, she lived right next door.
218
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:23,467
- I know Vivian Maier because
she was my childhood nanny...
219
00:13:24,774 --> 00:13:26,891
For about four years,
something like that.
220
00:13:29,638 --> 00:13:32,584
- Her job was as a housekeeper
and a nanny.
221
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:36,911
- Vivian was my nanny.
222
00:13:36,934 --> 00:13:38,953
- Vivian came into our lives
223
00:13:38,982 --> 00:13:42,441
when we needed a caretaker
for my mother.
224
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:45,962
- I was just staring at her,
and I had thought,
225
00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:49,897
"Where did my sister find
this lady to babysit her kids?"
226
00:13:57,735 --> 00:14:00,845
- She was obsessed with
just saving bits of memories,
227
00:14:00,871 --> 00:14:03,152
of moments in time.
228
00:14:03,176 --> 00:14:04,714
The stuff that she collected
229
00:14:04,744 --> 00:14:07,690
all helped me understand her
a little better.
230
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,896
I have dozens of audio tapes
that Vivian made.
231
00:14:25,705 --> 00:14:27,691
I have around 150
232
00:14:27,721 --> 00:14:31,114
8-millimeter
and 16-millimeter movies.
233
00:14:41,417 --> 00:14:44,396
I found pictures
of Phil Donahue,
234
00:14:44,425 --> 00:14:48,047
like, in his home,
petting a dog and at dinner.
235
00:14:49,546 --> 00:14:51,946
- I was a single parent
in Winnetka, Illinois,
236
00:14:51,978 --> 00:14:53,745
with four sons.
237
00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:55,853
Along comes Vivian.
238
00:14:55,882 --> 00:14:57,487
I met her in a diner
239
00:14:57,514 --> 00:15:00,940
to interview her
for this housekeeper job.
240
00:15:00,970 --> 00:15:03,119
She took my picture.
241
00:15:03,146 --> 00:15:06,158
I was a guy running
back and forth over my shoes.
242
00:15:06,187 --> 00:15:09,362
I had to do a program
every day, sometimes two.
243
00:15:09,386 --> 00:15:10,805
I didn't want any trouble.
244
00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:14,319
I just-you know, I just wanted
clean socks.
245
00:15:14,346 --> 00:15:17,325
She was with us
less than a year.
246
00:15:17,355 --> 00:15:22,866
I have a memory of her taking
a picture inside a garbage can.
247
00:15:25,419 --> 00:15:29,555
I thought, "Well, you know,
they laughed at Picasso."
248
00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:31,118
I didn't know.
249
00:15:31,148 --> 00:15:32,922
I mean, I didn't give it
much thought.
250
00:15:32,958 --> 00:15:35,359
I didn't think she was crazy.
251
00:15:38,187 --> 00:15:40,752
- Vivian took self-portraits.
252
00:15:40,780 --> 00:15:43,028
In my mind, I don't know
253
00:15:43,052 --> 00:15:44,586
what image I had of this person,
254
00:15:44,623 --> 00:15:48,726
but it was definitely not
the image that I uncovered.
255
00:16:02,157 --> 00:16:05,911
- She came across as unusual.
256
00:16:05,933 --> 00:16:09,589
- She wore big, big coats,
felt hats.
257
00:16:09,613 --> 00:16:14,807
- The kind of thing that might
have been popular in 1925.
258
00:16:16,813 --> 00:16:19,443
- She was always
kind of hiding her figure-
259
00:16:19,469 --> 00:16:23,376
you know, wearing these heavy
clothes and these boots.
260
00:16:23,405 --> 00:16:25,132
- They used to call her
"Army Boots."
261
00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:28,503
- She was very tall.
262
00:16:28,526 --> 00:16:30,032
- Seven feet?
263
00:16:30,062 --> 00:16:31,154
" No!"
264
00:16:31,181 --> 00:16:32,436
- Seven feet.
- She was tall.
265
00:16:32,462 --> 00:16:34,140
- She must have been
about 5'9".
266
00:16:34,177 --> 00:16:35,431
- Six foot?
267
00:16:37,326 --> 00:16:38,865
- She liked wearing
men's shirts.
268
00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:40,051
- She wore men's shirts.
269
00:16:40,078 --> 00:16:42,140
- I think she said
the tailoring was better.
270
00:16:43,118 --> 00:16:45,468
- She'd have kind of a-
just a straight blunt cut.
271
00:16:45,504 --> 00:16:48,631
- She had hair
that stuck straight up.
272
00:16:48,655 --> 00:16:50,357
- Now, looking back,
273
00:16:50,382 --> 00:16:51,869
I would say she kind of dressed
274
00:16:51,905 --> 00:16:55,417
like you would expect to find
women factory workers
275
00:16:55,439 --> 00:16:57,817
in the Soviet Union
in the '50s or something.
276
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,658
- That's how she walked.
277
00:17:03,247 --> 00:17:05,877
You have to swing
your arms up like this,
278
00:17:05,903 --> 00:17:09,460
and you have to do
a sort of a Nazi march.
279
00:17:09,487 --> 00:17:13,208
- You'd see her
on her little motorized bicycle.
280
00:17:13,232 --> 00:17:14,958
I mean, I remember
sometimes thinking
281
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:17,708
she kind of looked like
the Wicked Witch of the West.
282
00:17:18,768 --> 00:17:20,885
- Always had her camera
around her neck.
283
00:17:22,096 --> 00:17:24,628
- Always the camera
around her neck.
284
00:17:26,193 --> 00:17:29,368
- She had, like,
this great camera with-
285
00:17:29,392 --> 00:17:31,891
I remember it was
a square Rolleiflex.
286
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,459
You flip open the thing,
287
00:17:33,488 --> 00:17:36,402
and you look through
the viewfinder directly down.
288
00:17:36,433 --> 00:17:38,898
- I'd lusted
after a twin-lens Rolly,
289
00:17:38,929 --> 00:17:40,500
and here she had one.
290
00:17:40,529 --> 00:17:42,166
- And I looked at that camera,
291
00:17:42,193 --> 00:17:45,521
and it looked like
it was rather old.
292
00:17:47,857 --> 00:17:53,106
- You see, the Rolleiflex
is a great disguise camera...
293
00:17:54,609 --> 00:17:55,856
Because it wasn't up here,
294
00:17:55,892 --> 00:17:58,556
where she had to alert somebody
on the street
295
00:17:58,578 --> 00:17:59,873
that she was photographing.
296
00:17:59,909 --> 00:18:02,441
She could be sort of secretive
down here.
297
00:18:03,954 --> 00:18:06,453
The camera was shooting
from below,
298
00:18:06,482 --> 00:18:11,250
and it gave her pictures
a kind of towering magnitude.
299
00:18:12,370 --> 00:18:13,941
There's a picture of a guy.
300
00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:15,837
He's just an ordinary
street guy,
301
00:18:15,859 --> 00:18:19,765
but he has a power and dignity.
302
00:18:19,795 --> 00:18:23,963
And he's standing there,
and he's looking at her.
303
00:18:23,987 --> 00:18:25,657
If you look at his eye line,
304
00:18:25,683 --> 00:18:27,287
he's looking
right into her face,
305
00:18:27,315 --> 00:18:30,076
and she probably looked down
and focused
306
00:18:30,099 --> 00:18:32,412
and then looked right up at him.
307
00:18:32,435 --> 00:18:36,538
And he looked at her,
and she fired the shutter.
308
00:18:36,563 --> 00:18:40,798
Street photographers
tend to be gregarious
309
00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:43,026
in the sense that they can go
out on the street
310
00:18:43,062 --> 00:18:46,357
and they're comfortable
being among people,
311
00:18:46,388 --> 00:18:49,781
but they're also a funny mixture
of solitaries
312
00:18:49,812 --> 00:18:52,442
at the same time
as being gregarious.
313
00:18:52,468 --> 00:18:54,934
You observe and you embrace
and you take in,
314
00:18:54,964 --> 00:18:58,751
but you stay back
and you try to stay invisible.
315
00:19:00,085 --> 00:19:02,268
- She didn't like to talk
about herself.
316
00:19:02,293 --> 00:19:05,436
Some people I meet,
and they're very open.
317
00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:08,766
She was not an open person;
She was a closed person.
318
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:11,899
- She lived on the third floor,
in our attic,
319
00:19:11,925 --> 00:19:13,987
and one of the first things
she asked me for
320
00:19:14,023 --> 00:19:16,189
was please to put in a lock
321
00:19:16,213 --> 00:19:20,218
so that she could lock her area
securely.
322
00:19:20,246 --> 00:19:23,552
It was a real serious lock.
323
00:19:23,574 --> 00:19:26,749
- She was mysterious.
324
00:19:26,773 --> 00:19:31,008
She said don't ever open
this door to her room.
325
00:19:33,589 --> 00:19:34,975
- I think
she made friends with me
326
00:19:34,998 --> 00:19:37,588
because she sized me up
and thought I was strong enough
327
00:19:37,616 --> 00:19:39,187
to lift a bunch of boxes
for her.
328
00:19:39,215 --> 00:19:42,333
I broke the springs of my car.
329
00:19:42,358 --> 00:19:46,680
I think that gives you an idea
of how much weight I lifted.
330
00:19:46,711 --> 00:19:49,919
- She mentioned that she brought
her life with her,
331
00:19:49,943 --> 00:19:52,475
which meant a number of boxes.
332
00:19:52,503 --> 00:19:55,264
We said, "Sure, no problem,"
'cause we had a garage.
333
00:19:55,287 --> 00:19:57,445
- There was a porch
off of the room, you know,
334
00:19:57,481 --> 00:19:59,777
sort of those sleeping porches.
335
00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:02,877
And it was piled high
with boxes.
336
00:20:02,903 --> 00:20:06,809
- We put them in our garage,
which, fortunately,
337
00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:10,877
was a 2 U2 oar garage
for two oars,
338
00:20:10,904 --> 00:20:12,158
and so we had this-
339
00:20:12,184 --> 00:20:13,657
- It became a two-car garage.
340
00:20:13,688 --> 00:20:15,739
- It became-became
a tight two-car garage.
341
00:20:15,768 --> 00:20:17,438
- Now, of course,
we'll never know
342
00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:19,613
how much the boxes were
her photographs
343
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:20,983
and how much the boxes were-
344
00:20:21,019 --> 00:20:21,982
- John knows.
345
00:20:22,008 --> 00:20:25,368
- Well, but she had
so many boxes.
346
00:20:26,936 --> 00:20:29,534
- I'd like to know why
you would hoard
347
00:20:29,561 --> 00:20:31,198
all of this great art.
348
00:20:31,225 --> 00:20:33,505
Why would-
why wouldn't you share it?
349
00:20:34,265 --> 00:20:36,764
What's the point of taking it
if no one sees it?
350
00:20:37,689 --> 00:20:39,227
- It's so sad, really.
351
00:20:39,257 --> 00:20:41,057
It's really sad.
352
00:20:41,081 --> 00:20:43,394
If you could have just shown her
all the pictures
353
00:20:43,417 --> 00:20:44,771
and held her down
in a chair somewhere
354
00:20:44,793 --> 00:20:45,753
so she couldn't-
355
00:20:45,785 --> 00:20:48,547
put a tape on her mouth
so she couldn't tell you no.
356
00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:50,556
Obviously, the woman
was so creative,
357
00:20:50,586 --> 00:20:55,070
and it must have been
galling to just, you know,
358
00:20:55,097 --> 00:20:56,254
be a maid.
359
00:20:57,306 --> 00:21:00,481
Wash the floors,
making some lunch and dinner,
360
00:21:00,505 --> 00:21:03,616
taking care of kids as a nanny.
361
00:21:08,474 --> 00:21:11,966
- Some of the early photos
I have are from 1951.
362
00:21:13,787 --> 00:21:19,014
One of them said on the back,
"The Walkers, Southampton."
363
00:21:20,027 --> 00:21:22,656
- I was surprised to see
the photographs
364
00:21:22,682 --> 00:21:25,312
of my grandparents' house.
365
00:21:25,339 --> 00:21:27,969
We always called it Tides' End.
366
00:21:34,715 --> 00:21:38,785
- It's amazing to see it
so dilapidated.
367
00:21:40,668 --> 00:21:42,883
- This was flowers.
368
00:21:42,907 --> 00:21:46,530
We'd have lunches out here
and tea, and...
369
00:21:46,556 --> 00:21:48,575
it was wonderful.
370
00:21:48,603 --> 00:21:51,168
Vivian probably spent
the summer.
371
00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:54,175
She was probably a nanny
out of New York,
372
00:21:54,204 --> 00:21:57,794
tagging along with the family
and the children.
373
00:21:57,820 --> 00:22:00,734
In those days, your father
worked in New York
374
00:22:00,765 --> 00:22:05,086
and came out by train on Friday
and went back on Sunday.
375
00:22:05,117 --> 00:22:08,260
I don't think that's changed
very much.
376
00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:10,434
If you go
to the beach club today
377
00:22:10,461 --> 00:22:12,512
and go down on the sand,
378
00:22:12,541 --> 00:22:14,724
you'll see the nannies there.
379
00:22:14,749 --> 00:22:17,149
Some of these women
have been lucky enough
380
00:22:17,181 --> 00:22:20,127
to make their way up here
to the United States.
381
00:22:20,157 --> 00:22:24,260
The girl who helps me, this is
her fifth or sixth year here.
382
00:22:24,285 --> 00:22:25,758
- What's her name?
383
00:22:25,790 --> 00:22:27,176
- Olivia.
384
00:22:28,862 --> 00:22:30,368
Delightful, delightful person.
385
00:22:30,397 --> 00:22:31,685
I love her dearly.
386
00:22:33,598 --> 00:22:36,619
She speaks very little English,
and I speak very little Spanish.
387
00:22:36,655 --> 00:22:37,950
We get along beautifully.
388
00:22:47,390 --> 00:22:50,337
- It's been written about
that she had few friends.
389
00:22:50,366 --> 00:22:55,015
And I consider myself
one of those friends.
390
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:56,905
I liked her a lot.
391
00:22:56,926 --> 00:22:59,808
She was a terrific person.
392
00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,975
In 1962,
I lived in Highland Park.
393
00:23:03,999 --> 00:23:05,437
I had a lot of small children.
394
00:23:05,474 --> 00:23:06,723
I was home a lot.
395
00:23:06,751 --> 00:23:08,901
One of my children was friendly
396
00:23:08,927 --> 00:23:11,557
with one of the boys
she took care of.
397
00:23:11,583 --> 00:23:14,693
The children, they were always
at each other's houses,
398
00:23:14,719 --> 00:23:17,666
and she would come by,
and we had good conversations
399
00:23:17,695 --> 00:23:20,871
with kids swirling around us
all the time.
400
00:23:20,896 --> 00:23:23,755
I had a very freewheeling,
open household.
401
00:23:25,728 --> 00:23:28,128
There weren't a lot of rules-
402
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,244
you know, "Don't get killed
in the street."
403
00:23:30,272 --> 00:23:33,186
She loved the children,
and the children loved her.
404
00:23:33,216 --> 00:23:36,228
She was wonderful
to the children...
405
00:23:38,656 --> 00:23:40,162
I think probably loved them
406
00:23:40,193 --> 00:23:43,979
as much as she probably loved
anybody.
407
00:23:44,001 --> 00:23:45,900
- Knock, knock!
408
00:23:45,921 --> 00:23:47,624
- Apple.
409
00:23:47,649 --> 00:23:49,515
Apple knock, knock.
410
00:23:49,537 --> 00:23:51,588
- Who's there?
411
00:23:51,617 --> 00:23:52,555
-Apple.
412
00:23:52,577 --> 00:23:53,931
- Knock, knock.
413
00:23:53,954 --> 00:23:54,914
- Who's there?
414
00:23:54,945 --> 00:23:56,069
- Knock, knock.
415
00:23:56,097 --> 00:23:57,538
- Knock, knock who?
416
00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:03,461
God.
417
00:24:04,033 --> 00:24:05,419
Well, gentlemen...
418
00:24:05,441 --> 00:24:07,308
- I think she was quite lively
419
00:24:07,330 --> 00:24:10,309
and wonderful person
in her younger years.
420
00:24:10,338 --> 00:24:12,422
I mean, she must have been
a delight.
421
00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:15,429
I can see
how they worshipped her,
422
00:24:15,458 --> 00:24:17,859
because she was doing
the adventures
423
00:24:17,890 --> 00:24:21,699
that normally a parent
would probably not do.
424
00:24:23,107 --> 00:24:26,020
Life was more adventurous
with her around.
425
00:24:26,658 --> 00:24:28,099
- She was very opinionated
426
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:30,097
about how children
should spend their time
427
00:24:30,121 --> 00:24:31,751
and mainly
how they should spend it
428
00:24:31,787 --> 00:24:33,127
was out and about with her.
429
00:24:33,155 --> 00:24:34,825
She would load up the stroller
430
00:24:34,851 --> 00:24:37,764
with the baby and her bag
and both kids,
431
00:24:37,795 --> 00:24:39,497
and off they would go
on outings.
432
00:24:39,523 --> 00:24:41,291
And they had their routine.
433
00:24:41,315 --> 00:24:43,781
There was a Marshall Field's
in downtown Evanston,
434
00:24:43,811 --> 00:24:46,343
and it had a candy counter
on the first floor.
435
00:24:46,371 --> 00:24:48,050
Well, that was always
the first stop
436
00:24:48,086 --> 00:24:50,285
because there were always
free samples.
437
00:24:50,307 --> 00:24:52,937
- She would avail herself
very heartily
438
00:24:52,964 --> 00:24:54,502
of the free samples,
439
00:24:54,532 --> 00:24:56,780
meaning, like, dump!
440
00:24:56,804 --> 00:24:59,631
You know, she'd dump
the whole tray of Frango mints
441
00:24:59,652 --> 00:25:01,900
into her purse and walk away.
442
00:25:03,012 --> 00:25:04,202
We stopped going there
all of a sudden,
443
00:25:04,228 --> 00:25:06,345
but I believe that she was
kicked out
444
00:25:06,372 --> 00:25:09,067
of Marshall Field's permanently.
445
00:25:09,093 --> 00:25:12,486
- A really clear memory is her
setting up to take photos
446
00:25:12,517 --> 00:25:14,503
of all these naked mannequins.
447
00:25:14,533 --> 00:25:16,300
Some of them were headless.
448
00:25:16,324 --> 00:25:18,507
Some of them were toppled over
a little bit.
449
00:25:18,533 --> 00:25:20,787
I mean, it'll be probably
an amazing photograph,
450
00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:22,629
but as a child,
it was taking forever,
451
00:25:22,661 --> 00:25:24,675
standing there
on the corner of the street,
452
00:25:24,712 --> 00:25:27,087
waiting while this weird lady
takes pictures
453
00:25:27,109 --> 00:25:28,812
of these naked, headless
mannequins.
454
00:25:28,837 --> 00:25:30,278
- Then they would go out
455
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:32,775
and they would look
in the alleys for junk,
456
00:25:32,805 --> 00:25:34,638
because that was
what she liked to do.
457
00:25:34,662 --> 00:25:36,746
She would come home
with pieces of metal,
458
00:25:36,774 --> 00:25:39,174
old furniture,
and we would look at it.
459
00:25:39,206 --> 00:25:41,073
"Is this art? Is this not art?
460
00:25:41,094 --> 00:25:42,964
"What is this?
This could be useful.
461
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,379
This could come in handy
sometime."
462
00:25:46,662 --> 00:25:48,397
- My brother, Robbie,
463
00:25:48,422 --> 00:25:50,571
he was riding his bike home
from school,
464
00:25:50,598 --> 00:25:51,787
and he got hit by a car.
465
00:25:51,814 --> 00:25:54,413
- He was sort of laying
in the middle of the street,
466
00:25:54,438 --> 00:25:56,117
and an ambulance was coming,
and he-
467
00:25:56,134 --> 00:25:58,244
and he says-and I don't know
if this is true,
468
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,001
but he always said that Vivian
was taking pictures of him
469
00:26:01,030 --> 00:26:02,449
laying on the ground.
470
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,277
- It wasn't like,
"Robbie, you okay?"
471
00:26:06,314 --> 00:26:06,987
or anything.
472
00:26:07,015 --> 00:26:09,269
It was more just,
"This is a good photo op."
473
00:26:14,855 --> 00:26:16,492
My mother drove up
474
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:19,727
and saw my brother
lying in the street.
475
00:26:19,751 --> 00:26:22,578
She said, "I thought
the dogs got hit."
476
00:26:25,416 --> 00:26:27,238
Vivian was just kind of
above the fray,
477
00:26:27,274 --> 00:26:29,099
and I remember thinking,
you know,
478
00:26:29,128 --> 00:26:31,823
"There's Vivian taking pictures
as usual."
479
00:26:35,208 --> 00:26:37,107
- She was aware
of what was going on
480
00:26:37,128 --> 00:26:40,555
in politics and society
at the time.
481
00:26:42,057 --> 00:26:45,898
She would bring
this cassette recorder,
482
00:26:45,929 --> 00:26:48,078
and she goes to the supermarket.
483
00:26:48,105 --> 00:26:51,313
And she's asking people
in line...
484
00:26:51,337 --> 00:26:52,777
- Hi, Carl.
- Hi.
485
00:26:52,809 --> 00:26:54,152
- I got you with my machine.
486
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:56,135
I was wondering
if you had anything to say
487
00:26:56,172 --> 00:26:58,159
about all this political scene.
488
00:26:58,186 --> 00:27:00,106
- Well...
- About Nixon and so on.
489
00:27:00,137 --> 00:27:01,611
- I think that it happened
the Way it should
490
00:27:01,641 --> 00:27:03,311
for the best of the country.
491
00:27:03,338 --> 00:27:05,040
- And maybe it'll be a Warning
492
00:27:05,065 --> 00:27:06,189
To future politicians.
493
00:27:06,218 --> 00:27:07,609
- That's right. That's right.
494
00:27:09,482 --> 00:27:11,282
- But What did you think
of the impeachment?
495
00:27:11,306 --> 00:27:12,840
- Well, come on.
- Am I on tape'?
496
00:27:12,877 --> 00:27:14,287
- Yes, you are. Come on.
497
00:27:14,314 --> 00:27:15,819
- I don't know.
498
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:17,585
- Well, you should have
an opinion.
499
00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:19,720
Women are supposed to be
opinionated, I hope.
500
00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:21,874
Come on.
501
00:27:21,898 --> 00:27:24,277
- There's one movie
that she made
502
00:27:24,299 --> 00:27:27,158
that has a note in it.
503
00:27:27,179 --> 00:27:32,933
And it says, "1972 Chicago
murder of mother and baby."
504
00:27:33,067 --> 00:27:35,566
"Market where she found ad
for babysitting job,
505
00:27:35,595 --> 00:27:38,454
which had led
to disappearance and death."
506
00:27:47,084 --> 00:27:49,965
Then you see her walking
to the supermarket.
507
00:27:52,523 --> 00:27:55,884
She's walking
in the babysitters footsteps.
508
00:27:59,308 --> 00:28:02,102
You see her walking
to the neighborhood.
509
00:28:02,124 --> 00:28:06,259
I just wonder if that's where
the crime happened.
510
00:28:11,789 --> 00:28:15,117
She goes to the funeral home.
511
00:28:26,766 --> 00:28:28,665
She's kind of...
512
00:28:28,686 --> 00:28:31,032
a journalist of the era, like-
513
00:28:31,054 --> 00:28:34,098
but usually you do that
to show people, you know,
514
00:28:34,126 --> 00:28:35,599
to show this is what happened.
515
00:28:35,629 --> 00:28:37,070
She just did it.
516
00:28:43,278 --> 00:28:49,033
- One day in 1977, I was driving
on Sheridan Road,
517
00:28:49,550 --> 00:28:51,896
and someone flagged me
for hitchhiking.
518
00:28:51,918 --> 00:28:54,101
Plenty of people do that.
519
00:28:54,126 --> 00:28:56,854
Turned out to be Vivian Maier.
520
00:28:56,879 --> 00:29:00,665
- When I met Vivian
back in 1972,
521
00:29:00,686 --> 00:29:03,032
I was in grad school
at Northwestern.
522
00:29:03,054 --> 00:29:05,138
And I worked
in the language lab,
523
00:29:05,167 --> 00:29:06,804
and it was not at all unusual
524
00:29:06,831 --> 00:29:10,323
for eccentric people to be
coming through the lab.
525
00:29:10,351 --> 00:29:12,119
- She was French.
526
00:29:12,143 --> 00:29:15,187
She had lost most of her accent,
I would say.
527
00:29:15,216 --> 00:29:19,450
- She affected what at the time
struck me instantly
528
00:29:19,471 --> 00:29:21,108
as a fake French accent.
529
00:29:21,135 --> 00:29:23,416
- Some people have said
she had a fake accent,
530
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,459
but this is-this is not true.
531
00:29:25,487 --> 00:29:26,993
- My degree is in linguistics.
532
00:29:27,024 --> 00:29:28,726
I have a PhD in linguistics.
533
00:29:30,928 --> 00:29:33,111
And the truth is,
it was a fake accent.
534
00:29:35,536 --> 00:29:38,001
- I happened to see the film
535
00:29:38,032 --> 00:29:40,313
The Four Horsemen
of the Apocalypse,
536
00:29:40,336 --> 00:29:42,006
and I'm probably not pronouncing
537
00:29:42,032 --> 00:29:44,498
the word right, and...
538
00:29:44,529 --> 00:29:48,054
- There's the lilting sound
of it, you know?
539
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,270
"I don't really know
540
00:29:49,297 --> 00:29:50,453
"what you want me to do,
541
00:29:50,481 --> 00:29:52,630
"but you have to do it
and come over later,
542
00:29:52,657 --> 00:29:54,240
and then everything
will be okay."
543
00:29:54,269 --> 00:29:56,523
- Her voice, it seemed like
it went up and down.
544
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,852
You know what I'm saying?
545
00:29:57,873 --> 00:29:59,226
- Oooooh.
546
00:29:59,249 --> 00:30:02,642
- Her vowels were longer
in duration than French vowels.
547
00:30:02,673 --> 00:30:05,532
I mean, you know, this is the-
I did a-
548
00:30:05,553 --> 00:30:09,656
my master's thesis was on
vowel duration in French,
549
00:30:09,682 --> 00:30:11,648
so I had a little bit
of background in it.
550
00:30:12,114 --> 00:30:15,322
- I believe it's someone who had
polished their English accent,
551
00:30:15,346 --> 00:30:18,522
having then lost
some of their French accent.
552
00:30:18,546 --> 00:30:21,623
- You don't want to see a copy
of my dissertation, so...
553
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:24,279
- Well...
554
00:30:24,306 --> 00:30:25,910
- No, you don't, really.
555
00:30:28,242 --> 00:30:30,588
I asked her her name.
556
00:30:30,611 --> 00:30:32,597
She kind of paused.
I remember that.
557
00:30:32,627 --> 00:30:35,453
And she said, "Call me Smith."
558
00:30:35,474 --> 00:30:36,828
I mean, it was very clear
559
00:30:36,851 --> 00:30:39,350
she didn't want to tell me
her name.
560
00:30:39,379 --> 00:30:41,594
I thought, "This is weird."
561
00:30:44,979 --> 00:30:47,958
- She had been a customer
of ours.
562
00:30:47,988 --> 00:30:50,847
She was a pain in the neck,
to be truthful.
563
00:30:50,868 --> 00:30:54,261
We held things for her
for as long as a year.
564
00:30:54,292 --> 00:30:57,085
We would say,
"What's your name?"
565
00:30:57,108 --> 00:30:59,737
"I'm not going to tell you."
566
00:30:59,764 --> 00:31:03,867
"Well, we can't keep it
without a name."
567
00:31:03,892 --> 00:31:07,100
"All right, Miss V. Smith."
568
00:31:10,421 --> 00:31:12,636
You know, ha ha ha,
Miss V. Smith.
569
00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:16,469
It was patently obvious
that she was not Miss V. Smith.
570
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:18,781
And we'd say,
"Okay, phone number."
571
00:31:18,805 --> 00:31:20,540
"I don't have a phone."
572
00:31:20,565 --> 00:31:22,675
"Well, how are we gonna
get in touch with you
573
00:31:22,711 --> 00:31:23,581
if we need to?"
574
00:31:23,605 --> 00:31:24,598
"Well, you won't."
575
00:31:28,405 --> 00:31:33,632
Why was she giving us
a fake name?
576
00:31:33,653 --> 00:31:38,237
We didn't think as much about it
as you are.
577
00:31:42,454 --> 00:31:44,538
- Now, she spelled her name
differently.
578
00:31:44,566 --> 00:31:47,894
There's B-as in boy-Maier.
579
00:31:47,925 --> 00:31:51,548
Every possible combination
of ways you could spell Maier-
580
00:31:51,574 --> 00:31:55,841
M-e-y-e-r, M-a-i-e-r, M-a-y-e-r.
581
00:31:55,862 --> 00:31:58,045
- We always called her
Miss Maier.
582
00:31:58,071 --> 00:32:00,668
Miss Maters.
583
00:32:00,695 --> 00:32:02,233
- She said, "Call me Viv."
584
00:32:02,263 --> 00:32:05,504
- You would never have called
this woman "Viv."
585
00:32:05,527 --> 00:32:06,618
- Vivian.
586
00:32:06,647 --> 00:32:08,120
- Nobody called her Viv?
587
00:32:08,151 --> 00:32:10,071
- No, Vivian.
588
00:32:10,102 --> 00:32:14,849
- Why wouldn't you want
to tell people your real name?
589
00:32:14,871 --> 00:32:16,955
I asked her what she did,
590
00:32:16,983 --> 00:32:19,809
and her answer was another thing
I'll never forget.
591
00:32:19,831 --> 00:32:21,566
"I'm sort of a spy."
592
00:32:21,591 --> 00:32:22,982
That's exactly what she said.
593
00:32:23,006 --> 00:32:25,020
I can still see her
and hear her saying it.
594
00:32:25,056 --> 00:32:27,611
It was so odd.
595
00:32:27,639 --> 00:32:29,822
I think the only person
who says that
596
00:32:29,848 --> 00:32:33,176
is somebody who's definitely
not a spy.
597
00:32:33,208 --> 00:32:34,943
Why would you say that?
598
00:32:48,345 --> 00:32:51,040
- Maybe she wanted to be
somebody else.
599
00:32:51,065 --> 00:32:53,531
A lot of us do that.
600
00:32:57,625 --> 00:33:02,110
- If she did not have this job
as the babysitter,
601
00:33:02,137 --> 00:33:07,713
her lifestyle would have been
very understandable.
602
00:33:07,737 --> 00:33:11,098
The real question is, why did
she do this kind of work?
603
00:33:13,465 --> 00:33:16,957
- Her intelligence
and her views on things,
604
00:33:16,986 --> 00:33:18,856
there was something
very precious to her
605
00:33:18,893 --> 00:33:20,431
about keeping them secret.
606
00:33:21,594 --> 00:33:27,349
Vivian may have looked down,
so to speak, on the employers
607
00:33:27,514 --> 00:33:31,170
who were hiring her for this
low-paying kind of work.
608
00:33:33,626 --> 00:33:36,288
She identified with the poor.
609
00:33:42,715 --> 00:33:44,635
I mean, she said she doesn't go
to a doctor.
610
00:33:44,667 --> 00:33:46,489
She doesn't have
any medical insurance.
611
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,870
And I said, "Are you-
are you worried about that?"
612
00:33:48,906 --> 00:33:52,212
And she said,
"The poor are too poor to die."
613
00:33:54,107 --> 00:33:57,763
- She told me that when
she first came to New York,
614
00:33:57,787 --> 00:34:01,443
she went to work
in a sewing sweatshop.
615
00:34:01,467 --> 00:34:03,967
She realized one day
that she wanted to do something
616
00:34:03,995 --> 00:34:07,553
where she could be outside
and in the world, out and about,
617
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:10,407
and see the sun,
so she took up nannying.
618
00:34:12,028 --> 00:34:16,894
- She felt that it gave her
a certain amount of freedom.
619
00:34:16,925 --> 00:34:20,384
Somebody else was providing
the shelter for her.
620
00:34:20,413 --> 00:34:23,392
She wasn't having
to work so hard
621
00:34:23,421 --> 00:34:25,221
just to make ends meet.
622
00:34:25,245 --> 00:34:29,283
So she had some free time
for her photographic endeavors.
623
00:34:36,957 --> 00:34:39,303
- 1959.
624
00:34:39,325 --> 00:34:44,323
Vivian told her employer,
"I'm going to travel the world,
625
00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:45,932
and I'll be back
in eight months."
626
00:34:47,678 --> 00:34:51,170
She went to Bangkok, India,
Thailand,
627
00:34:51,198 --> 00:34:54,144
Egypt, Yemen,
628
00:34:54,174 --> 00:34:56,258
all of South America.
629
00:34:56,286 --> 00:34:58,949
She traveled by herself...
630
00:35:00,542 --> 00:35:03,008
Just her and her camera.
631
00:35:03,038 --> 00:35:06,563
There are thousands of photos
from her world travels.
632
00:35:10,271 --> 00:35:10,942
##
633
00:35:38,848 --> 00:35:41,096
Do you think Vivian would like
634
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,236
the attention
that she's getting?
635
00:35:43,264 --> 00:35:45,087
- I think she was a very-
I don't know.
636
00:35:45,123 --> 00:35:46,084
I don't think so.
637
00:35:46,112 --> 00:35:48,971
I think she was more of
a very private person.
638
00:35:48,992 --> 00:35:51,392
I don't-l think
she might have seen this
639
00:35:51,424 --> 00:35:53,705
as kind of an intrusion,
you know?
640
00:35:56,801 --> 00:36:02,555
- I can't help but to feel
a little uncomfortable or guilty
641
00:36:03,841 --> 00:36:09,596
exposing the work of a person
who did not want to be exposed.
642
00:36:11,841 --> 00:36:14,373
- She was so secretive.
643
00:36:14,402 --> 00:36:16,617
I think that she would like
her artwork to be honored,
644
00:36:16,641 --> 00:36:18,943
But I don't think she personally
would have liked
645
00:36:18,974 --> 00:36:20,098
being in the limelight.
646
00:36:20,126 --> 00:36:21,512
I don't.
647
00:36:22,658 --> 00:36:24,873
- She would never
have let this happen
648
00:36:24,898 --> 00:36:26,982
had she known about it.
649
00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:28,581
No, she never would have let it.
650
00:36:28,610 --> 00:36:31,337
She-she-that was her babies.
651
00:36:31,362 --> 00:36:34,276
She wouldn't have put her babies
on display.
652
00:36:35,619 --> 00:36:38,019
- But I don't think
she took all those photographs
653
00:36:38,051 --> 00:36:39,950
for them to just dissolve
into dust.
654
00:36:39,971 --> 00:36:43,660
I think she took
those photographs to be seen.
655
00:36:45,987 --> 00:36:50,538
- I find the mystery of it
more interesting
656
00:36:50,563 --> 00:36:53,095
than her work itself.
657
00:36:53,123 --> 00:36:57,989
I'd love to know more
about this person.
658
00:36:59,683 --> 00:37:02,793
And I don't think you can
do that through her work.
659
00:37:02,819 --> 00:37:04,354
- So she didn't tell you
anything
660
00:37:04,356 --> 00:37:06,888
about where she came from,
her background?
661
00:37:06,915 --> 00:37:08,114
You didn't know anything?
662
00:37:08,132 --> 00:37:09,517
Nobody pried into that?
663
00:37:09,539 --> 00:37:12,235
- No, I-not really.
664
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:16,527
- Did you know anything
about Vivian-
665
00:37:16,548 --> 00:37:18,415
her family, her past'?
666
00:37:18,436 --> 00:37:19,309
- No.
667
00:37:20,645 --> 00:37:21,844
- It's amazing, isn't it,
668
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,464
that you're friendly with
someone for, like, ten years
669
00:37:24,485 --> 00:37:27,496
and that you don't know
anything more about them than...
670
00:37:27,524 --> 00:37:29,194
this much?
671
00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:32,364
- We always thought
she was French.
672
00:37:32,389 --> 00:37:34,604
Now, she's kind of, what,
Austrian?
673
00:37:34,629 --> 00:37:40,337
I mean, she's from Al-from
Alsace-Lorraine or something?
674
00:37:40,357 --> 00:37:41,961
- She's from New York.
675
00:37:41,989 --> 00:37:43,081
- From New York?
676
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:44,168
What do you mean, from New York?
677
00:37:44,197 --> 00:37:45,731
- Well, she was born
in New York.
678
00:37:45,768 --> 00:37:46,854
- She was?
679
00:37:46,885 --> 00:37:48,358
- She was born in New York.
680
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:50,060
No, really?
681
00:37:50,086 --> 00:37:51,908
- I thought
she was born in Europe.
682
00:37:51,944 --> 00:37:53,999
I thought she was French.
683
00:37:54,022 --> 00:37:56,881
How did she acquire that accent?
684
00:38:01,158 --> 00:38:03,057
- So...
685
00:38:03,078 --> 00:38:04,748
where's Vivian from?
686
00:38:04,774 --> 00:38:08,844
- She's from New York City,
born February 1st of 1926.
687
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:11,533
Speaking
from a professional standpoint,
688
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,156
compared to what I've done
in the past,
689
00:38:14,183 --> 00:38:18,383
this has ranked up real high
on the list of difficulty.
690
00:38:18,406 --> 00:38:21,582
The families usually have
some consistency
691
00:38:21,607 --> 00:38:22,993
as to where they're located.
692
00:38:23,015 --> 00:38:25,132
Lat least have them
in public record
693
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:27,030
where I can find information
about them,
694
00:38:27,066 --> 00:38:28,241
not like this one.
695
00:38:28,263 --> 00:38:30,860
The whole family
is a mystery family.
696
00:38:30,887 --> 00:38:33,517
There's a few things that
we know about Vivian Maier.
697
00:38:33,544 --> 00:38:35,414
One, we know
that she was never married.
698
00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:36,716
She was a spinster.
699
00:38:36,744 --> 00:38:40,400
She had no husband.
She had no children.
700
00:38:40,424 --> 00:38:42,290
Her parents are both dead.
701
00:38:42,312 --> 00:38:44,494
Vivian did have a brother,
an older brother.
702
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,020
Clearly, he's probably dead.
703
00:38:47,048 --> 00:38:48,849
All of them seem to be private.
704
00:38:48,873 --> 00:38:50,793
All of them seem to want
nothing to do
705
00:38:50,824 --> 00:38:52,359
with the rest of their families.
706
00:38:52,395 --> 00:38:54,097
All of them seem to be
disconnected
707
00:38:54,121 --> 00:38:56,304
from the remainder
of their family.
708
00:38:56,329 --> 00:38:59,242
She had one aunt
who was to leave everything
709
00:38:59,273 --> 00:39:02,579
to a friend in her will-
not to family but to a friend-
710
00:39:02,601 --> 00:39:04,041
and this is the reason why.
711
00:39:04,073 --> 00:39:07,314
She says here-and I'm quoting
directly from her will-
712
00:39:07,337 --> 00:39:11,505
"I make no provision
for any of my relatives
713
00:39:11,529 --> 00:39:14,541
"for reasons best known to me
714
00:39:14,569 --> 00:39:19,796
which I have disclosed to
a few of my intimate friends."
715
00:39:19,817 --> 00:39:22,764
At the time of Alma's death
in 1965,
716
00:39:22,793 --> 00:39:26,002
Vivian was obviously alive,
her only niece.
717
00:39:26,026 --> 00:39:30,194
Whatever her hang-up was,
it went to the grave with her.
718
00:39:30,218 --> 00:39:33,939
- Vivian's father was out of
the picture very early on.
719
00:39:33,962 --> 00:39:38,796
So the census records show that
Vivian's living with her mother.
720
00:39:38,826 --> 00:39:41,358
But I did know that she lived
in France for a while
721
00:39:41,386 --> 00:39:43,438
and that her mother
was from France.
722
00:39:43,467 --> 00:39:46,544
So my guess was
that there was family in France,
723
00:39:46,571 --> 00:39:49,747
because the thing is,
the 1949 photos
724
00:39:49,771 --> 00:39:54,038
and the 1959 photos
are the same village.
725
00:39:54,059 --> 00:39:57,419
So I know she was returning
to the same place.
726
00:39:57,451 --> 00:39:59,437
So I started looking up all the
stuff that she had from France.
727
00:39:59,467 --> 00:40:02,478
I started looking
at the photographs of France,
728
00:40:02,507 --> 00:40:04,788
looking at the little towns
and the church steeples
729
00:40:04,812 --> 00:40:06,252
and how
this church steeple looks
730
00:40:06,283 --> 00:40:07,440
and how that
church steeple looks
731
00:40:07,468 --> 00:40:08,494
in this little village.
732
00:40:08,524 --> 00:40:09,844
And I would go on the internet,
733
00:40:09,868 --> 00:40:11,254
and I would look up
little villages in France
734
00:40:11,276 --> 00:40:12,715
and try to match the steeples.
735
00:40:12,751 --> 00:40:15,088
It's like matching
a fingerprint.
736
00:40:15,116 --> 00:40:17,034
I knew I had
at least one of the villages
737
00:40:17,071 --> 00:40:19,319
that she was in found...
738
00:40:22,316 --> 00:40:24,597
Saint-Julien and Saint-Bonnet
739
00:40:24,621 --> 00:40:27,927
in this remote little
sheepherder village
740
00:40:27,949 --> 00:40:32,303
in the French Alps,
population 250.
741
00:40:33,901 --> 00:40:36,826
- She might have been offended
that you found her little town.
742
00:40:36,862 --> 00:40:38,775
That was none of your business.
743
00:40:38,797 --> 00:40:42,038
She might say, "God, God."
744
00:40:42,061 --> 00:40:44,210
Why did he do that?"
745
00:40:46,350 --> 00:40:49,743
- For some reason,
my curiosity is overwhelming
746
00:40:49,774 --> 00:40:52,338
to find out more about Vivian.
747
00:40:52,365 --> 00:40:55,028
I'm uncovering an artist.
748
00:40:55,053 --> 00:40:59,124
If I'm leaving
this giant boulder unturned
749
00:40:59,150 --> 00:41:02,510
because I don't go here,
it would be a mistake.
750
00:42:10,385 --> 00:42:11,323
- Vivian took this.
751
00:42:11,345 --> 00:42:13,363
- Are you sure?
- Yeah, 100%.
752
00:42:13,617 --> 00:42:15,733
I have this same print.
753
00:42:16,913 --> 00:42:19,412
- Vivian took this picture.
- This is her print.
754
00:42:23,602 --> 00:42:25,915
- He says, "Aren't you happy?"
755
00:42:25,938 --> 00:42:28,404
- Her box camera.
756
00:42:30,418 --> 00:42:31,891
I have-l have a similar one.
757
00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:34,449
- No, that's her mom's camera.
758
00:42:34,485 --> 00:42:36,286
- Vivian's mom?
759
00:42:50,163 --> 00:42:51,581
- That's Vivian?
- Yes.
760
00:42:52,403 --> 00:42:53,560
- Wow.
761
00:42:57,235 --> 00:43:00,563
Another thing I found in
Vivian's stuff was this letter.
762
00:43:00,595 --> 00:43:02,396
It was written in French,
763
00:43:02,420 --> 00:43:06,228
and it's talking about
a photography lab in France.
764
00:43:16,275 --> 00:43:17,432
- You can do like this.
765
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:18,748
- Oui, oui.
766
00:43:18,772 --> 00:43:21,751
- The letter starts out,
"Dear Mr. Simon."
767
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,386
- Wow.
768
00:44:55,288 --> 00:44:57,885
- Previously, we thought
Vivian had no intentions
769
00:44:57,912 --> 00:45:01,306
of having anybody else print
her work or show her work.
770
00:45:01,336 --> 00:45:05,145
This letter proves
that assumption wrong.
771
00:45:05,176 --> 00:45:07,228
Vivian knew
she was a good photographer,
772
00:45:07,257 --> 00:45:09,415
and she knew that these
photographs were good.
773
00:45:09,433 --> 00:45:11,932
She wanted to show them
to people.
774
00:45:11,961 --> 00:45:14,455
She may not have had that happen
while she was alive,
775
00:45:14,491 --> 00:45:17,251
but we're doing it now.
776
00:45:17,273 --> 00:45:19,390
I stopped scanning myself,
777
00:45:19,417 --> 00:45:21,287
because I just couldn't keep up
with it.
778
00:45:26,362 --> 00:45:29,191
There's a lab in New York with
technicians scanning her work
779
00:45:29,227 --> 00:45:31,682
Monday through Friday,
9:00 to 5:00,
780
00:45:31,706 --> 00:45:35,328
at a rate of about
a few thousand a week.
781
00:45:35,354 --> 00:45:37,512
I've been developing
the black-and-white film,
782
00:45:37,548 --> 00:45:40,276
so I have about a couple hundred
left to develop.
783
00:45:43,099 --> 00:45:45,598
It's a very complicated
and tricky procedure,
784
00:45:45,627 --> 00:45:47,689
because you have to get
the formula correct,
785
00:45:47,725 --> 00:45:51,356
and there's only one chance
to get it right.
786
00:45:51,387 --> 00:45:54,814
It's-it's magical.
787
00:46:03,675 --> 00:46:07,614
We don't know
what she would have printed,
788
00:46:07,643 --> 00:46:09,662
what she would have chosen
or edited.
789
00:46:11,836 --> 00:46:13,854
We're seeing work now
for the first time
790
00:46:13,883 --> 00:46:17,604
that Vivian never saw herself.
791
00:46:17,627 --> 00:46:21,501
- When you contacted me,
I wasn't sure
792
00:46:21,532 --> 00:46:24,129
if I wanted to get involved
in a project
793
00:46:24,156 --> 00:46:26,207
with posthumous prints.
794
00:46:26,236 --> 00:46:29,280
I just didn't think it would be
the right fit for the gallery.
795
00:46:29,308 --> 00:46:31,562
This is the room where we store
our photographs.
796
00:46:31,587 --> 00:46:34,468
I think there are about 25,000
to 30,000 photographs in here.
797
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:37,669
I mean, it's more
than most museums have.
798
00:46:37,692 --> 00:46:41,184
Vivian Maier, we've had
more interest in this work
799
00:46:41,213 --> 00:46:43,713
than perhaps
any other photographer
800
00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:45,443
I've ever worked with.
801
00:46:52,029 --> 00:46:53,218
- It's a big problem
802
00:46:53,245 --> 00:46:55,842
trying to get her work
into institutions.
803
00:46:55,869 --> 00:46:58,434
The problem is that
the art world establishment
804
00:46:58,461 --> 00:47:01,223
still won't recognize
Vivian's work.
805
00:47:01,246 --> 00:47:04,803
Museums usually deal with
the final product,
806
00:47:04,830 --> 00:47:06,597
the print that was made
by the artist
807
00:47:06,622 --> 00:47:09,317
in the artist's life.
808
00:47:09,342 --> 00:47:12,321
They don't want to interpret
an artist's work
809
00:47:12,350 --> 00:47:14,303
from where they left off.
810
00:47:15,710 --> 00:47:18,242
That's bogus,
because Garry Winogrand
811
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:21,926
had a desk full of rolls of film
that he never developed.
812
00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:23,685
So they're developing them.
813
00:47:23,710 --> 00:47:26,820
Eug�ne Atget's work was printed
after his death
814
00:47:26,846 --> 00:47:29,160
and then ended up being acquired
by MoMA.
815
00:47:29,183 --> 00:47:32,904
I mean, it's frustrating,
because it's being done, and-
816
00:47:32,927 --> 00:47:35,524
but nobody wants to do it
for Vivian's work.
817
00:47:35,551 --> 00:47:37,505
She did print some of her work,
818
00:47:37,535 --> 00:47:42,217
but it was largely not
the best edit of her work.
819
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:45,066
She was
a masterful photographer,
820
00:47:45,087 --> 00:47:48,448
but printing was not her thing.
821
00:47:49,791 --> 00:47:50,846
That's common, though.
822
00:47:50,883 --> 00:47:52,836
I mean, Cartier-Bresson
hated printing,
823
00:47:52,863 --> 00:47:55,111
and Robert Frank
wasn't a good printer,
824
00:47:55,136 --> 00:47:56,937
but they hire printers.
825
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,971
They hire somebody
to print for them.
826
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,986
Good work is good work,
827
00:48:02,016 --> 00:48:04,962
and it's recognized
that this is really great art.
828
00:48:04,992 --> 00:48:07,821
I do think her work needs to be
appreciated by-by the world.
829
00:48:10,945 --> 00:48:12,144
These are the new prints?
830
00:48:12,161 --> 00:48:13,154
- Yeah.
831
00:48:13,184 --> 00:48:14,623
- Cool. Yeah, these are great.
832
00:48:14,652 --> 00:48:15,874
Thank you for showing me.
833
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:17,123
- They're yours.
834
00:48:17,153 --> 00:48:19,586
- The only way
this work can move forward
835
00:48:19,617 --> 00:48:21,287
is if there's money
that is made.
836
00:48:21,313 --> 00:48:24,456
The sale of prints
will be a part of that.
837
00:48:28,897 --> 00:48:34,124
Of course I wish
that I could give her money,
838
00:48:34,145 --> 00:48:35,716
you know.
839
00:48:35,746 --> 00:48:36,739
She's gone.
840
00:48:36,770 --> 00:48:39,236
I mean,
there's nothing I can do.
841
00:48:39,266 --> 00:48:42,027
- She always had
a money problem.
842
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:44,352
God knows she probably
could have used the money.
843
00:48:44,388 --> 00:48:46,985
It's too bad she wasn't
discovered ten years earlier.
844
00:48:55,938 --> 00:48:57,160
- Marble.
845
00:48:58,851 --> 00:49:01,197
Yeah, you two.
846
00:49:02,787 --> 00:49:06,312
Here's the picture of
Miss Maters right in the corner.
847
00:49:06,339 --> 00:49:08,805
And I wouldn't call her
"Vivian," because,
848
00:49:08,835 --> 00:49:10,024
you know, she'd have your guts
for garters
849
00:49:10,051 --> 00:49:11,306
if you called her that.
850
00:49:11,332 --> 00:49:13,383
Not "Missus," not "Vivian."
851
00:49:13,411 --> 00:49:15,310
She was Miss Maters.
852
00:49:15,331 --> 00:49:18,954
She was my governess
from when I was 5 years old
853
00:49:18,979 --> 00:49:21,577
up until
I was about 11 years old.
854
00:49:21,603 --> 00:49:23,753
I've got in my baby book
the exact date.
855
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:29,225
It was, like, March of '67
until about 1974.
856
00:49:29,252 --> 00:49:30,889
- Inger and I were best friends,
857
00:49:30,916 --> 00:49:35,183
and so I would spend a lot
of time with Miss Maier.
858
00:49:35,204 --> 00:49:37,583
She would take us
down to the city,
859
00:49:37,605 --> 00:49:39,591
and we would just walk
860
00:49:39,621 --> 00:49:41,291
in the worst parts of town.
861
00:49:41,316 --> 00:49:43,401
- She'd walk very quickly,
and so I had-
862
00:49:43,428 --> 00:49:45,774
my little legs had to fly
to keep up with her.
863
00:49:45,796 --> 00:49:48,077
- She would swing her arm
just like this.
864
00:49:48,101 --> 00:49:51,658
And then her stride
was just massive.
865
00:49:51,685 --> 00:49:54,064
Inger used to just beg her
to slow down,
866
00:49:54,085 --> 00:49:56,617
and she would just drag her
alongside.
867
00:49:56,645 --> 00:49:58,446
The poor thing.
868
00:49:58,470 --> 00:50:00,554
- She'd take pictures
of everything.
869
00:50:00,582 --> 00:50:04,008
She would see a subject,
870
00:50:04,037 --> 00:50:06,056
something that would
interest her.
871
00:50:06,086 --> 00:50:08,301
She'd open her camera.
872
00:50:08,326 --> 00:50:10,542
She'd focus it.
873
00:50:10,566 --> 00:50:12,203
- These poor, you know, people,
874
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:15,722
and she would literally ask them
to, like, pose for her.
875
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:17,617
- She didn't tend
to pose people.
876
00:50:17,638 --> 00:50:19,220
- She's like, "Stand there.
- Wait."
877
00:50:19,257 --> 00:50:20,652
- It was just the way it was.
878
00:50:20,678 --> 00:50:22,730
- Impoverished people.
- Take a picture.
879
00:50:22,758 --> 00:50:25,770
- Or somebody crying.
- It was just, "Bam!"
880
00:50:26,759 --> 00:50:28,047
They would...
881
00:50:28,071 --> 00:50:30,798
You know, like, "My God,
what is this woman doing?"
882
00:50:30,822 --> 00:50:32,492
- We would joke about
how we wanted to hit her
883
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:33,910
over the head with the camera
884
00:50:33,938 --> 00:50:35,672
because she embarrassed us
so much.
885
00:50:35,697 --> 00:50:38,061
It was imposing and rude.
886
00:50:38,087 --> 00:50:41,776
They felt, I'm sure, that they
were being mocked in some way.
887
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:43,382
I'm surprised
she didn't get shot.
888
00:50:44,327 --> 00:50:45,713
- My mom put her foot down
889
00:50:45,735 --> 00:50:48,463
and wouldn't let Miss Maier
take me into the slum areas.
890
00:50:50,471 --> 00:50:52,391
- She loved to read the paper.
891
00:50:52,424 --> 00:50:54,534
She liked it that we took
The New York Times,
892
00:50:54,555 --> 00:50:55,908
and she read it every day,
893
00:50:55,931 --> 00:50:58,153
and she always had an eye
for the bizarre,
894
00:50:58,184 --> 00:51:00,978
the grotesque, the incongruous.
895
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,914
She wasn't interested
in sweetness and light.
896
00:51:08,776 --> 00:51:10,860
She liked headlines
897
00:51:10,888 --> 00:51:15,275
that revealed the folly
of individuals,
898
00:51:15,305 --> 00:51:18,032
stories that would enable her
to basically say,
899
00:51:18,057 --> 00:51:21,331
"I told you so. I told you so."
900
00:51:21,353 --> 00:51:24,048
Some man murders his wife
901
00:51:24,073 --> 00:51:25,703
and then gets caught
in cold blood:
902
00:51:25,739 --> 00:51:26,706
"I told you so."
903
00:51:26,729 --> 00:51:30,418
I mean, these things that
revealed the folly of humanity.
904
00:51:49,066 --> 00:51:54,129
If you look at her art, she sees
the bizarreness of life,
905
00:51:54,154 --> 00:51:56,620
the incongruity of life,
906
00:51:56,651 --> 00:52:00,241
and the unappealingness
of human beings.
907
00:52:02,443 --> 00:52:05,749
- There were little things
all the time
908
00:52:05,771 --> 00:52:11,525
that she was just plain-
in microscopic ways,
909
00:52:11,659 --> 00:52:15,566
just chipping at me
all the time.
910
00:52:15,595 --> 00:52:19,251
I would go down
with my allowance money
911
00:52:19,275 --> 00:52:22,603
to the craft store
and buy myself
912
00:52:22,635 --> 00:52:26,028
a thousand little, tiny,
you know, like, rainbows and...
913
00:52:26,060 --> 00:52:29,617
Glass tchotchkes.
914
00:52:29,644 --> 00:52:33,845
Viv would look at my trove
of tchotchkes and hate it.
915
00:52:33,868 --> 00:52:36,847
She would get a big mop bucket,
916
00:52:36,877 --> 00:52:39,474
and she would fill it
with hot, soapy water, yes,
917
00:52:39,501 --> 00:52:41,006
and ammonia,
918
00:52:41,036 --> 00:52:44,114
and she would have the ammonia
be such a strength
919
00:52:44,141 --> 00:52:46,225
that you couldn't be near
the bucket.
920
00:52:46,253 --> 00:52:48,402
Clearly,
to need that much ammonia,
921
00:52:48,429 --> 00:52:52,215
you would surely be cleaning
something very, very dirty.
922
00:52:54,861 --> 00:52:58,004
She would take her arm
923
00:52:58,029 --> 00:53:01,554
and just swipe all
the tchotchkes into the bucket,
924
00:53:01,582 --> 00:53:03,548
and they're crashing
and grinding together
925
00:53:03,565 --> 00:53:04,853
and smashing,
926
00:53:04,877 --> 00:53:07,125
and then they're all covered
in ammonia.
927
00:53:10,414 --> 00:53:13,208
Me, I sort of just
quietly tolerated
928
00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:15,216
whatever was happening to me
in my life.
929
00:53:15,246 --> 00:53:17,810
My brother acted out,
and I don't think
930
00:53:17,838 --> 00:53:21,231
that she had good ways of coping
with his behavior.
931
00:53:21,262 --> 00:53:24,023
She, sort of ditched us.
932
00:53:24,046 --> 00:53:25,677
We were all taking
a walk together,
933
00:53:25,713 --> 00:53:29,143
and she would duck down an alley
and just disappear.
934
00:53:29,167 --> 00:53:32,953
The police finally found us.
935
00:53:32,974 --> 00:53:35,222
I think she wanted to scare us.
936
00:53:35,246 --> 00:53:37,644
And I remember getting lectured
by the police like,
937
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,539
"You can't leave
your babysitter"
938
00:53:39,567 --> 00:53:42,033
and me saying, "No, no."
939
00:53:42,063 --> 00:53:44,017
My babysitter left me."
940
00:53:46,383 --> 00:53:50,104
There were some accidents,
which I knew weren't accidents,
941
00:53:50,127 --> 00:53:53,074
that everybody knew
weren't really accidents,
942
00:53:53,103 --> 00:53:55,057
where all of a sudden, there's
a kid screaming in the basement
943
00:53:55,088 --> 00:53:56,862
with the door shut
and the lights off.
944
00:53:56,899 --> 00:53:58,612
Yeah, that kind of thing.
945
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:00,440
- She was mean.
946
00:54:00,463 --> 00:54:01,998
I don't know how else to say it.
947
00:54:02,034 --> 00:54:04,091
I don't know;
She had, like, a dark side.
948
00:54:04,112 --> 00:54:07,472
I remember one time
she said,
949
00:54:07,504 --> 00:54:10,418
"These men, " they'll have you
sit on their laps,
950
00:54:10,449 --> 00:54:13,427
and then you'll feel something
poking you."
951
00:54:15,184 --> 00:54:16,374
And I can't even remember
the context
952
00:54:16,401 --> 00:54:18,300
of when she said that,
but it just was,
953
00:54:18,321 --> 00:54:20,504
she had this, like, anger in her
towards men,
954
00:54:20,528 --> 00:54:22,482
and now I know exactly
what she was talking about,
955
00:54:22,513 --> 00:54:25,110
but as a kid, I really-
I knew what she was saying
956
00:54:25,137 --> 00:54:27,418
was dark and a little not right.
957
00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:38,105
- I've seen her more than once
958
00:54:38,130 --> 00:54:41,338
jump back in fear, you know,
from a man.
959
00:54:41,362 --> 00:54:43,740
She said several times
over several years,
960
00:54:43,761 --> 00:54:46,162
men, all they were out to do
was ruin you.
961
00:54:46,194 --> 00:54:48,955
Stay away from them.
Be careful of them.
962
00:54:48,978 --> 00:54:51,891
You know,
that all they want is sex.
963
00:54:51,922 --> 00:54:56,855
- She was always afraid
of being touched.
964
00:54:56,882 --> 00:54:59,196
- I remember she was standing up
on a stump,
965
00:54:59,219 --> 00:55:02,045
taking a picture
of some sort of incident.
966
00:55:02,066 --> 00:55:04,183
The man apparently thought
she was falling.
967
00:55:04,211 --> 00:55:07,604
He reached up, and all she saw
was a man reaching for her,
968
00:55:07,635 --> 00:55:09,206
and she decked him-
969
00:55:09,235 --> 00:55:12,213
she thought
he was attacking her-
970
00:55:12,243 --> 00:55:16,314
and gave him a concussion,
sent him to the hospital.
971
00:55:17,171 --> 00:55:18,939
- I would bet money
972
00:55:18,963 --> 00:55:23,350
that she was, um, brutalized
in some way,
973
00:55:23,379 --> 00:55:27,384
attacked in some-l mean, or,
you know, molested, whatever.
974
00:55:27,412 --> 00:55:28,733
I hate to say that,
975
00:55:28,756 --> 00:55:31,004
but something happened to her
that was awful,
976
00:55:31,028 --> 00:55:34,388
because nobody would act
like the way she did.
977
00:55:35,060 --> 00:55:36,216
- I remember some of
978
00:55:36,244 --> 00:55:38,258
the more strong emotion things,
I'm afraid.
979
00:55:38,295 --> 00:55:43,100
It's harder to remember
some of the other, um...
980
00:55:46,357 --> 00:55:48,889
I don't know if you want to go
into this, but I will.
981
00:55:48,917 --> 00:55:50,171
I will.
982
00:55:52,597 --> 00:55:54,942
I mean, there were things
that happened to me
983
00:55:54,965 --> 00:55:57,824
that were not good.
984
00:55:57,845 --> 00:56:02,559
Miss Maier was force-feeding me,
forcing me to eat
985
00:56:02,582 --> 00:56:04,982
'cause I wasn't finishing all
on my plate.
986
00:56:05,013 --> 00:56:07,992
My parents found out,
and my dad got angry.
987
00:56:08,021 --> 00:56:10,553
But if my dad found out
exactly how,
988
00:56:10,581 --> 00:56:12,731
it would have been worse.
989
00:56:12,757 --> 00:56:14,973
She would hold me down,
990
00:56:14,998 --> 00:56:17,017
she would shove the food
in my throat,
991
00:56:17,046 --> 00:56:20,668
and then she would choke me
until I would swallow it.
992
00:56:20,694 --> 00:56:23,705
And she would do that
over and over again.
993
00:56:27,254 --> 00:56:30,233
There was very much
of a dark side to her
994
00:56:30,263 --> 00:56:32,860
that I have not gone into.
995
00:56:34,967 --> 00:56:37,345
She would lose it sometimes.
996
00:56:37,367 --> 00:56:38,901
I think the first time
she hit me
997
00:56:38,903 --> 00:56:40,671
was when I was five years old
998
00:56:40,695 --> 00:56:45,595
'cause I was trying to learn
to tie my shoelaces,
999
00:56:45,623 --> 00:56:46,977
and I wasn't doing it right,
1000
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,678
and she got very frustrated
with me,
1001
00:56:48,714 --> 00:56:50,588
and so she started slamming
my head
1002
00:56:50,615 --> 00:56:52,961
into the side of this bookcase.
1003
00:56:52,983 --> 00:56:54,854
I mean, she wouldn't hit me
in the face.
1004
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:57,019
Obviously,
I didn't have bruises there,
1005
00:56:57,048 --> 00:56:59,165
but she'd grab me by the wrists
and swing me around the room
1006
00:56:59,191 --> 00:57:00,610
and slam me into things
1007
00:57:00,632 --> 00:57:02,749
when she got really upset
about something.
1008
00:57:02,776 --> 00:57:07,228
And I was eight years old
before I could break her grip.
1009
00:57:07,256 --> 00:57:08,983
After that,
she didn't do that again.
1010
00:57:09,019 --> 00:57:11,300
I was strong enough.
1011
00:57:12,568 --> 00:57:16,190
I mean, she was
a brilliant person,
1012
00:57:16,216 --> 00:57:19,544
and I think she really cared,
and I think she tried,
1013
00:57:19,577 --> 00:57:21,214
and I don't know
if any of the others
1014
00:57:21,241 --> 00:57:23,830
will ever talk about that,
if it ever happened to them.
1015
00:57:23,858 --> 00:57:25,728
I don't know.
Maybe she got it together.
1016
00:57:25,765 --> 00:57:27,475
I'm hoping she did.
1017
00:57:32,377 --> 00:57:34,112
- I really hate saying
these things about her,
1018
00:57:34,138 --> 00:57:35,676
because I've always felt guilty
1019
00:57:35,706 --> 00:57:37,855
about not keeping Viv
for longer.
1020
00:57:37,882 --> 00:57:39,617
My husband and I
were talking then
1021
00:57:39,642 --> 00:57:41,595
about having a foster child.
1022
00:57:41,625 --> 00:57:44,124
Viv said, "if you want
to take care of somebody",
1023
00:57:44,153 --> 00:57:46,052
why don't you take care of me?"
1024
00:57:46,073 --> 00:57:48,703
And then she kind of laughed,
but she meant it.
1025
00:57:48,730 --> 00:57:53,379
I think she really wanted
to be brought in
1026
00:57:53,402 --> 00:57:58,978
to be a member of our family,
but that...
1027
00:57:59,003 --> 00:58:01,764
wasn't really
what I had bargained for.
1028
00:58:06,907 --> 00:58:09,340
- So there it is.
1029
00:58:13,883 --> 00:58:18,499
In this little house,
Miss Maters lived upstairs.
1030
00:58:18,523 --> 00:58:22,179
- My father did provide a room
for her above his office.
1031
00:58:22,203 --> 00:58:25,444
I only had a chance
to see it once,
1032
00:58:25,468 --> 00:58:27,868
back when I snuck up behind her,
1033
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:29,820
'cause she kept a padlock on it.
1034
00:58:32,540 --> 00:58:34,689
- So, yeah,
this is totally different.
1035
00:58:37,180 --> 00:58:38,620
This was the forbidden zone.
1036
00:58:38,652 --> 00:58:41,031
No one was allowed to see
where Miss Maters lived.
1037
00:58:43,772 --> 00:58:45,409
- Miss Maier went in there,
1038
00:58:45,437 --> 00:58:47,750
and she left the door
open enough for me to see,
1039
00:58:47,772 --> 00:58:50,402
and the room was literally
filled, floor to ceiling,
1040
00:58:50,429 --> 00:58:51,618
with newspapers.
1041
00:58:51,645 --> 00:58:54,023
- See how the floor is sloped?
1042
00:58:54,044 --> 00:58:55,435
- I told my dad, and he said,
1043
00:58:55,459 --> 00:58:57,617
"That's why the floor
is sagging so much."
1044
00:58:57,653 --> 00:58:59,810
He ended up having to put
a steel I-beam post
1045
00:58:59,837 --> 00:59:02,183
in his office
because the floor was sagging.
1046
00:59:02,205 --> 00:59:03,198
He didn't know why.
1047
00:59:03,229 --> 00:59:05,182
It was just totally full.
1048
00:59:10,686 --> 00:59:13,632
- This floor was Viv's domain.
1049
00:59:14,686 --> 00:59:17,447
It occurred to me that maybe
I would need to go up there
1050
00:59:17,470 --> 00:59:19,041
when she wasn't home,
1051
00:59:19,070 --> 00:59:24,264
so she grudgingly gave me a key,
and so I went in.
1052
00:59:24,286 --> 00:59:27,778
You can tell
where she had been walking,
1053
00:59:27,806 --> 00:59:29,574
and it was just this narrow path
1054
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:32,807
that you could just barely
traverse like this.
1055
00:59:32,831 --> 00:59:34,413
And where would the bed
have been?
1056
00:59:34,450 --> 00:59:35,491
Right here.
1057
00:59:35,518 --> 00:59:38,464
Stacks of newspapers
almost to the ceiling.
1058
00:59:42,047 --> 00:59:43,585
You may think I'm exaggerating.
1059
00:59:43,615 --> 00:59:46,376
No, I am not.
1060
01:00:03,328 --> 01:00:06,241
Just stacked, stacked, stacked,
stacked, stacked,
1061
01:00:06,272 --> 01:00:07,877
stacked everywhere.
1062
01:00:07,903 --> 01:00:11,231
High-you know,
high stacks of paper.
1063
01:00:11,264 --> 01:00:13,992
How she even could get
to the paper...
1064
01:00:14,016 --> 01:00:17,672
I don't even know how much
she even looked at the paper.
1065
01:00:24,832 --> 01:00:26,990
I began to see that she was
stacking newspaper
1066
01:00:27,027 --> 01:00:29,544
elsewhere in the house-
in the basement,
1067
01:00:29,569 --> 01:00:32,264
and in the back, we have
a little back entryway,
1068
01:00:32,289 --> 01:00:34,788
and she would stack newspaper
out there.
1069
01:00:34,817 --> 01:00:36,487
Now, the idea was always
1070
01:00:36,513 --> 01:00:39,175
that there were articles
she wanted to save
1071
01:00:39,201 --> 01:00:40,832
for the day when she did
get around
1072
01:00:40,868 --> 01:00:44,483
to cutting out the parts
that she wanted to keep.
1073
01:00:44,514 --> 01:00:47,874
It concerned me, but...
1074
01:00:47,906 --> 01:00:52,871
I thought, "Whatever. Whatever."
1075
01:00:52,898 --> 01:00:55,495
Um...
1076
01:00:56,770 --> 01:01:01,037
- I gave her a ride
to her place of employment.
1077
01:01:01,058 --> 01:01:04,615
I looked at her desk
and piles of stuff there.
1078
01:01:04,643 --> 01:01:07,370
She was certain
that her employers
1079
01:01:07,394 --> 01:01:10,886
were coming into the room
she had
1080
01:01:10,914 --> 01:01:14,504
and going through her items.
1081
01:01:14,531 --> 01:01:18,950
She would rig the books
and so forth on her desk
1082
01:01:18,979 --> 01:01:23,082
so that if they were moved
half an inch,
1083
01:01:23,107 --> 01:01:25,027
she would know that
when she got back.
1084
01:01:25,059 --> 01:01:27,885
Or so that was Vivian's story.
1085
01:01:27,907 --> 01:01:29,413
And she was also certain
1086
01:01:29,444 --> 01:01:33,001
that people were looking
through binoculars
1087
01:01:33,028 --> 01:01:36,650
and could see through the window
of her room.
1088
01:01:38,628 --> 01:01:41,127
- She was progressively getting
more and more reclusive,
1089
01:01:41,156 --> 01:01:42,451
more and more of a hoarder.
1090
01:01:42,468 --> 01:01:44,818
- Everybody was saying
resoundingly, "My God."
1091
01:01:44,854 --> 01:01:46,660
You've got to get rid
of your nanny."
1092
01:01:46,692 --> 01:01:49,518
I don't think that Mom and Dad
really realized
1093
01:01:49,540 --> 01:01:54,058
the extent to which she was
living with mental illness,
1094
01:01:54,084 --> 01:01:55,438
'cause she was.
1095
01:01:55,461 --> 01:01:57,545
She was. She was.
1096
01:01:57,573 --> 01:02:01,414
She-she, um...
1097
01:02:03,845 --> 01:02:06,704
Yeah, it was a little past
eccentric.
1098
01:02:06,725 --> 01:02:08,144
- My neighbor came over.
1099
01:02:08,165 --> 01:02:09,224
He said,
"I'm painting the bathroom.
1100
01:02:09,253 --> 01:02:10,836
Do you have a stack
of newspaper?"
1101
01:02:10,872 --> 01:02:11,819
I said, "Sure."
1102
01:02:11,846 --> 01:02:13,199
There was a huge stack
right by the back door.
1103
01:02:13,221 --> 01:02:15,021
I gave him a big chunk
like this.
1104
01:02:15,045 --> 01:02:16,464
I said, "Sure. Go ahead."
1105
01:02:16,486 --> 01:02:18,864
Well, when Viv came home,
she saw
1106
01:02:18,885 --> 01:02:21,450
that that stack of newspaper
was shorter
1107
01:02:21,478 --> 01:02:23,431
by three feet or two feet
or whatever,
1108
01:02:23,462 --> 01:02:26,572
and she was angry and horrified.
1109
01:02:26,598 --> 01:02:29,512
"Who took my papers?
Who took my papers?"
1110
01:02:31,014 --> 01:02:32,749
- And she just went berserk.
1111
01:02:32,774 --> 01:02:34,160
I mean, she went crazy.
1112
01:02:34,182 --> 01:02:37,292
I remember an outside scene
with screaming and yelling
1113
01:02:37,318 --> 01:02:40,339
where she's yelling at this guy,
telling him to bring them back,
1114
01:02:40,358 --> 01:02:43,053
but some already had paint
on them and were ripped.
1115
01:02:43,078 --> 01:02:44,813
- "Now they're all covered
with paint!
1116
01:02:44,839 --> 01:02:46,312
"Now I can't use those papers.
1117
01:02:46,343 --> 01:02:47,877
"They're covered with paint now.
1118
01:02:47,914 --> 01:02:50,097
How could you give him
my papers?"
1119
01:02:50,791 --> 01:02:53,421
So I said-l just said,
"Viv, those aren't your papers.
1120
01:02:53,447 --> 01:02:55,084
"Those are my papers,
1121
01:02:55,111 --> 01:02:57,221
and there are too many papers
in this house."
1122
01:02:57,257 --> 01:02:59,729
- I remember my parents
telling me,
1123
01:02:59,751 --> 01:03:02,184
"Viv's not gonna be with us
anymore.
1124
01:03:02,216 --> 01:03:04,943
She's gotten too crazy."
1125
01:03:04,967 --> 01:03:07,019
Like, not that she wasn't
already crazy
1126
01:03:07,048 --> 01:03:08,880
but that the craziness
has increased
1127
01:03:08,903 --> 01:03:11,468
to a level that we can't
tolerate anymore.
1128
01:03:11,496 --> 01:03:15,948
- I remember so clearly
having to say to her, "Viv",
1129
01:03:15,976 --> 01:03:18,517
I think you're going to have
to look for another job."
1130
01:03:18,554 --> 01:03:20,562
How hard it was
to say that to her.
1131
01:03:20,584 --> 01:03:21,643
But you know what?
1132
01:03:21,673 --> 01:03:24,138
I don't think
she was even surprised.
1133
01:03:24,168 --> 01:03:25,847
She looked back at me,
and she said,
1134
01:03:25,883 --> 01:03:27,438
"Do you?" she said.
1135
01:03:27,465 --> 01:03:28,753
"Do you?" she said.
1136
01:03:28,777 --> 01:03:34,531
"Well, then, what I want
is two months' notice
1137
01:03:34,825 --> 01:03:37,487
and two months' pay"
or something like that.
1138
01:03:37,513 --> 01:03:39,979
She gave me her-sort of
what she wanted
1139
01:03:40,009 --> 01:03:41,647
as if she had it
on the tip of her tongue
1140
01:03:41,673 --> 01:03:43,092
and she'd figured it out.
1141
01:03:43,113 --> 01:03:45,079
And I didn't know whether
that was because
1142
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:47,450
she had been dismissed
from positions often enough
1143
01:03:47,486 --> 01:03:50,732
that she knew what to say
1144
01:03:50,762 --> 01:03:54,767
or whether she had, in a way,
anticipated it.
1145
01:03:54,794 --> 01:03:56,976
My husband and I
and our children,
1146
01:03:57,001 --> 01:03:59,763
after she was gone, do you know
we just jumped in the car
1147
01:03:59,786 --> 01:04:01,106
and drove up to Michigan,
1148
01:04:01,130 --> 01:04:03,117
which is something
we never used to do,
1149
01:04:03,146 --> 01:04:05,427
just because it was
a huge emotional thing
1150
01:04:05,450 --> 01:04:07,316
not to have her-
1151
01:04:07,338 --> 01:04:09,209
you know, see,
I'm still weepy about it,
1152
01:04:09,245 --> 01:04:10,931
because I really cared
about Viv,
1153
01:04:10,954 --> 01:04:13,006
and I think she cared about us,
1154
01:04:13,034 --> 01:04:14,672
and it was just
one of those things
1155
01:04:14,698 --> 01:04:20,453
where she was a person
who didn't fit in very well.
1156
01:04:20,843 --> 01:04:23,921
She just had those edges
that couldn't-
1157
01:04:23,947 --> 01:04:26,958
and I think we-
well, I flatter myself.
1158
01:04:26,987 --> 01:04:30,960
I think we were one of
the most sympathetic, accepting,
1159
01:04:30,987 --> 01:04:33,650
and congenial families
that she worked with.
1160
01:04:33,676 --> 01:04:37,103
I don't know that.
I think it may be true.
1161
01:04:37,131 --> 01:04:39,150
And we couldn't make it work.
1162
01:04:44,076 --> 01:04:49,831
- In 1996, we were getting my
mother's house ready for sale,
1163
01:04:50,188 --> 01:04:52,240
and when I told Vivian, I said,
1164
01:04:52,269 --> 01:04:54,614
"You can stay here
for a couple of months.
1165
01:04:54,637 --> 01:04:56,306
"I won't put it
on the market yet.
1166
01:04:56,332 --> 01:04:58,154
"You know,
we have to get things ready,
1167
01:04:58,191 --> 01:05:00,370
"and, you know,
I'm not kicking you out.
1168
01:05:00,397 --> 01:05:02,710
You can stay."
1169
01:05:02,733 --> 01:05:06,039
Vivian was to be there,
you know, and to show it,
1170
01:05:06,061 --> 01:05:08,842
but she was not at all helpful
with the real estate people.
1171
01:05:08,879 --> 01:05:10,701
She just didn't want
to let them in.
1172
01:05:10,733 --> 01:05:12,053
They were calling me saying
1173
01:05:12,077 --> 01:05:15,766
she won't let them
show the house, you know.
1174
01:05:15,789 --> 01:05:18,288
"You've got to do something,
Judy?
1175
01:05:18,317 --> 01:05:20,523
So I would call her and say,
"Vivian, you know,
1176
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:22,334
you have to let people see
the house."
1177
01:05:23,694 --> 01:05:27,219
They did manage to get in,
and they did manage to sell.
1178
01:05:27,245 --> 01:05:30,289
I think we closed
the last day of the year.
1179
01:05:33,934 --> 01:05:36,531
The lawyer called and said,
"Judy, we're just afraid
1180
01:05:36,558 --> 01:05:37,709
she's not gonna be out."
1181
01:05:37,710 --> 01:05:39,053
And I said, "She'll be out."
1182
01:05:39,089 --> 01:05:40,528
Don't worry. She will be out."
1183
01:05:40,564 --> 01:05:41,235
##
1184
01:06:04,399 --> 01:06:09,845
- The last time I saw her, um,
I'm still unhappy about.
1185
01:06:09,872 --> 01:06:14,193
It must have been, like,
probably 2000.
1186
01:06:14,224 --> 01:06:16,814
I was in Wilmette, going
to the beach with my daughter,
1187
01:06:16,816 --> 01:06:19,958
her children, and four other
children of a friend's.
1188
01:06:19,984 --> 01:06:22,101
- It was a hot summer day,
like August,
1189
01:06:22,128 --> 01:06:24,441
like '100-degree day,
and all of a sudden,
1190
01:06:24,464 --> 01:06:26,418
I see this woman
walking down the street,
1191
01:06:26,449 --> 01:06:28,631
and immediately we're like,
"There's Vivian."
1192
01:06:28,656 --> 01:06:31,090
- I hadn't seen her in 30 years,
1193
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,612
but we recognized each other
at once.
1194
01:06:36,401 --> 01:06:38,136
And we both, "Hi."
1195
01:06:38,161 --> 01:06:40,463
"How are you, Vivian?"
and "How are you, Carole?"
1196
01:06:40,499 --> 01:06:42,259
And "it's been so long."
1197
01:06:42,289 --> 01:06:44,974
- We're like, "Well, it was
great, you know, to see you."
1198
01:06:45,011 --> 01:06:47,218
And we said,
"We have to get going."
1199
01:06:47,249 --> 01:06:48,471
And she was like,
"Please don't leave."
1200
01:06:48,497 --> 01:06:49,556
You know, she was like,
"Carole"-
1201
01:06:49,585 --> 01:06:50,880
you know, my mother's name.
1202
01:06:50,917 --> 01:06:53,496
She was like,
"Carole, please don't leave."
1203
01:06:53,522 --> 01:06:55,322
- You know, when you're with
a bunch of kids
1204
01:06:55,346 --> 01:06:56,634
and they're swirling around you
1205
01:06:56,658 --> 01:06:58,192
and they want to go to the beach
1206
01:06:58,193 --> 01:07:00,725
and it's a hot summer day,
you know, you're, like, stuck.
1207
01:07:00,754 --> 01:07:02,424
And she kept saying,
"Talk to me.
1208
01:07:02,450 --> 01:07:03,836
Let's talk. Let's talk."
1209
01:07:03,858 --> 01:07:06,171
And I kept saying,
"I can't do it, Vivian.
1210
01:07:06,194 --> 01:07:07,580
I have to go. I have to go."
1211
01:07:07,602 --> 01:07:09,424
She kept saying,
"But you're my friend.
1212
01:07:09,461 --> 01:07:10,552
You're my friend."
1213
01:07:12,594 --> 01:07:16,184
And, um, I dropped the ball.
1214
01:07:16,211 --> 01:07:17,596
That's all I can say.
1215
01:07:17,619 --> 01:07:19,353
I feel badly about it-
1216
01:07:19,378 --> 01:07:25,133
and the despair in her voice
about seeing a friend,
1217
01:07:25,235 --> 01:07:28,246
and I feel that I let her down.
1218
01:07:28,275 --> 01:07:30,653
So I proceeded to go
to the beach with the kids.
1219
01:07:30,675 --> 01:07:33,121
I said, "Follow us,"
but she didn't want to do that,
1220
01:07:33,158 --> 01:07:35,869
so that was the end of that one.
1221
01:07:35,891 --> 01:07:39,001
- I do remember once
1222
01:07:39,027 --> 01:07:40,380
she wouldn't tell me
where we were going.
1223
01:07:40,403 --> 01:07:42,465
"I don't want to tell you.
It's a surprise."
1224
01:07:42,502 --> 01:07:45,086
She took me to the stockyards.
1225
01:07:47,124 --> 01:07:50,746
It didn't come
into my consciousness that,
1226
01:07:50,772 --> 01:07:53,599
"Well, this is where they go
to kill the animals."
1227
01:07:55,604 --> 01:07:59,445
There was a trailer
full of sheep.
1228
01:08:01,108 --> 01:08:04,186
I do remember guys
poking at them with sticks
1229
01:08:04,213 --> 01:08:06,810
to get them out
down this long ramp.
1230
01:08:08,180 --> 01:08:10,363
After they were done
offloading the sheep,
1231
01:08:10,389 --> 01:08:13,565
they started throwing out
a dead sheep,
1232
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:15,989
one that got trampled.
1233
01:08:17,525 --> 01:08:20,351
That was the first time
lever saw death.
1234
01:08:22,422 --> 01:08:25,728
Looking back, thinking about it,
it didn't bother me.
1235
01:08:25,750 --> 01:08:28,925
It was just kind of odd.
I couldn't understand it.
1236
01:08:31,382 --> 01:08:33,084
I've always been
a critter person,
1237
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:35,837
and these are my guys,
the sheep.
1238
01:08:39,446 --> 01:08:42,084
- The end of her life was
something that I worried about
1239
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,057
when she worked for me.
1240
01:08:44,087 --> 01:08:46,487
I thought,
"How can this end for her?"
1241
01:08:46,519 --> 01:08:48,057
I don't think it had
a happy ending.
1242
01:08:48,087 --> 01:08:50,619
I was very glad that these men
that she took care of
1243
01:08:50,647 --> 01:08:51,893
when they were little kids
1244
01:08:51,930 --> 01:08:54,143
kind of came to her rescue.
1245
01:08:54,166 --> 01:08:58,968
- They got her an apartment
and paid for her rent.
1246
01:09:06,615 --> 01:09:08,416
- Do you live in the area?
1247
01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:09,858
- Yeah, I live in the area.
1248
01:09:09,879 --> 01:09:12,804
- Do you remember a woman who
used to sit on this bench a lot,
1249
01:09:12,831 --> 01:09:14,030
wearing a big floppy hat?
1250
01:09:14,066 --> 01:09:15,937
- Um, was she the French lady?
1251
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:17,727
Yeah, I remember her.
1252
01:09:17,752 --> 01:09:21,080
People who still, um,
live around here,
1253
01:09:21,112 --> 01:09:22,945
yeah, we remember her.
1254
01:09:22,968 --> 01:09:26,841
She was here a lot,
sitting on the bench,
1255
01:09:26,872 --> 01:09:29,699
but I don't think
anybody really talked to her.
1256
01:09:29,721 --> 01:09:32,186
There's a lot of
eccentric people around here,
1257
01:09:32,216 --> 01:09:35,162
and I just thought
she was one of them.
1258
01:09:35,192 --> 01:09:37,625
You knew
to just leave her alone.
1259
01:09:39,736 --> 01:09:41,788
Sometimes she'd be
at the dumpsters.
1260
01:09:41,817 --> 01:09:44,927
You'd ask her, you know, "Do you
need help or do you need food?"
1261
01:09:44,953 --> 01:09:48,991
And she would just kind of
yell at you in French.
1262
01:09:49,017 --> 01:09:50,371
- How did you know her?
1263
01:09:50,394 --> 01:09:51,747
- Just from seeing her
in the neighborhood.
1264
01:09:51,769 --> 01:09:53,160
- And you would sit with her?
1265
01:09:53,184 --> 01:09:54,210
- Well, I'd always sit
on the bench,
1266
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:55,458
and she'd sit there,
1267
01:09:55,482 --> 01:09:57,435
and finally
it took weeks or months
1268
01:09:57,466 --> 01:09:58,852
before she'd even speak to me.
1269
01:09:58,874 --> 01:10:00,380
- I would see her in the alley
all the time,
1270
01:10:00,409 --> 01:10:01,599
going through the garbage,
1271
01:10:01,625 --> 01:10:03,841
so I had a bunch of old clothes
and a wool hat one time
1272
01:10:03,866 --> 01:10:05,209
I gave her, and she took it.
1273
01:10:05,236 --> 01:10:06,627
She said, "That's great."
1274
01:10:06,664 --> 01:10:08,418
I'll wear that when I sleep."
1275
01:10:08,442 --> 01:10:10,144
- She was very short
with people,
1276
01:10:10,170 --> 01:10:11,840
but she was funny, though.
1277
01:10:11,867 --> 01:10:13,405
Nice lady.
1278
01:10:13,435 --> 01:10:16,168
- When I was riding my bike,
sometimes I'd cross her path,
1279
01:10:16,205 --> 01:10:19,548
and she'd yell to me,
"Get a bell! Get a bell!"
1280
01:10:19,579 --> 01:10:22,111
And sometimes I'd be out
in the alley in the winter
1281
01:10:22,138 --> 01:10:24,604
and she'd see me without a hat,
1282
01:10:24,635 --> 01:10:27,199
and she'd yell,
"Get a hat! Get a hat!"
1283
01:10:27,227 --> 01:10:29,147
- She was about that bell
on the bike.
1284
01:10:29,179 --> 01:10:32,060
- Who would have known that she
was actually a great artist
1285
01:10:32,091 --> 01:10:33,858
and she'd come
to dumpster-diving?
1286
01:10:33,883 --> 01:10:35,389
- That's the saddest-
1287
01:10:35,419 --> 01:10:36,772
- And, I mean,
sitting on the park bench-
1288
01:10:36,795 --> 01:10:38,083
literally,
she'd go across the street.
1289
01:10:38,107 --> 01:10:39,258
She'd get a can of food.
1290
01:10:39,259 --> 01:10:40,863
What did she have the one day?
1291
01:10:40,891 --> 01:10:42,809
Was, like, corned beef hash
or something?
1292
01:10:42,834 --> 01:10:44,788
I mean, right out of the can,
not even warming it up,
1293
01:10:44,819 --> 01:10:45,956
with a spoon...
1294
01:10:45,979 --> 01:10:47,779
And said it was delicious.
1295
01:10:51,836 --> 01:10:55,841
- She was much more damaged
than I thought,
1296
01:10:55,868 --> 01:10:58,749
and I have a lot more empathy
for her.
1297
01:10:58,780 --> 01:11:00,580
Um...
1298
01:11:04,892 --> 01:11:06,693
I just think, um...
1299
01:11:06,717 --> 01:11:10,373
what a lonely lady, you know?
1300
01:11:10,397 --> 01:11:12,862
Incredibly lonely
1301
01:11:12,893 --> 01:11:15,807
and misunderstood.
1302
01:11:17,469 --> 01:11:19,007
So, yeah, I think, I mean,
1303
01:11:19,037 --> 01:11:21,350
now if I were to see her today
after this,
1304
01:11:21,373 --> 01:11:24,167
I wouldn't be as hard on her,
probably.
1305
01:11:27,710 --> 01:11:30,820
- Somebody called me and said
the old lady in the park,
1306
01:11:30,845 --> 01:11:32,831
she fell,
she kind of passed out,
1307
01:11:32,862 --> 01:11:34,499
and the ambulance is out there.
1308
01:11:34,526 --> 01:11:37,854
So I went across the street,
and at that point,
1309
01:11:37,886 --> 01:11:40,832
they were loading her
onto the little cart there,
1310
01:11:40,862 --> 01:11:43,721
and she was telling the people,
the paramedics and such,
1311
01:11:43,742 --> 01:11:45,182
that she did not want to go.
1312
01:11:45,214 --> 01:11:46,819
She wanted to go home.
1313
01:11:46,846 --> 01:11:48,767
And they said
that she has to go with,
1314
01:11:48,798 --> 01:11:51,744
and she looked at me as if
to say, "Can you do something?"
1315
01:11:51,774 --> 01:11:53,444
But there was nothing I could do
about it.
1316
01:11:53,471 --> 01:11:55,005
You know,
I asked the paramedics.
1317
01:11:55,042 --> 01:11:56,875
They said, "No, she has to go."
1318
01:11:59,999 --> 01:12:01,440
But that was it.
1319
01:12:01,471 --> 01:12:04,711
I mean, they put her in the
ambulance and took her away.
1320
01:12:04,735 --> 01:12:06,208
And then after the fact,
you know,
1321
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:08,157
a lot of people
in the neighborhood said,
1322
01:12:08,186 --> 01:12:09,864
"Whatever happened
to the old lady?"
1323
01:12:09,901 --> 01:12:11,540
And nobody ever knew.
1324
01:12:34,816 --> 01:12:40,163
- You have to try to draw
from the evidence you have
1325
01:12:40,193 --> 01:12:44,066
some understanding
of the individual.
1326
01:12:44,097 --> 01:12:47,905
I think her pictures
show a tenderness,
1327
01:12:47,937 --> 01:12:51,658
instant alertness
to human tragedies,
1328
01:12:51,681 --> 01:12:56,036
and those moments of generosity
and sweetness.
1329
01:12:56,065 --> 01:12:57,320
I see her
1330
01:12:57,346 --> 01:13:01,547
as an incredibly watchful,
observant, caring person.
1331
01:13:01,570 --> 01:13:04,876
And probably why she was a nanny
1332
01:13:04,898 --> 01:13:08,455
was that she had
those capacities.
1333
01:13:08,482 --> 01:13:13,731
- 1962,when she took
a lot of the pictures,
1334
01:13:13,762 --> 01:13:16,709
the kids would always play
in the ravines.
1335
01:13:16,738 --> 01:13:19,565
It's the most beautiful spot
in the world.
1336
01:13:22,690 --> 01:13:23,979
You know, instead of
1337
01:13:24,002 --> 01:13:26,283
this straight-edged
suburban community,
1338
01:13:26,306 --> 01:13:27,747
you always went there
1339
01:13:27,778 --> 01:13:30,608
'cause you wanted the kids to
have a little touch of nature-
1340
01:13:30,644 --> 01:13:33,155
you know, wild nature.
1341
01:13:33,187 --> 01:13:35,719
There were a patch
of wild strawberries
1342
01:13:35,747 --> 01:13:38,279
somewhere in there.
1343
01:13:40,548 --> 01:13:42,348
And I think she liked it
so much,
1344
01:13:42,371 --> 01:13:45,863
that's why they buried her
there.
1345
01:13:45,892 --> 01:13:50,060
It's a place that they
remembered she was happy.
1346
01:13:51,523 --> 01:13:54,404
- Now, you tell me
how you can live forever.
1347
01:13:54,436 --> 01:13:56,553
Come on.
1348
01:13:56,580 --> 01:13:59,820
- She might have gotten to the
end of her life and thought,
1349
01:13:59,844 --> 01:14:04,711
"Why didn't I try
to get that work out there?"
1350
01:14:04,740 --> 01:14:07,719
Some people's character
prevents them
1351
01:14:07,748 --> 01:14:11,109
from pushing that little bit
you need to push
1352
01:14:11,140 --> 01:14:13,061
to get the work seen.
1353
01:14:13,092 --> 01:14:16,071
You know, she didn't
defend herself as an artist.
1354
01:14:16,101 --> 01:14:18,960
She just did the work.
1355
01:14:18,981 --> 01:14:22,571
A canon is often established,
and so when someone comes in,
1356
01:14:22,597 --> 01:14:25,641
there's always the sense
that they're secondary figures,
1357
01:14:25,670 --> 01:14:28,616
but I don't feel her
as secondary.
1358
01:14:28,646 --> 01:14:34,124
When I look at the pictures,
I always feel something primary.
1359
01:14:36,966 --> 01:14:39,945
- I think that the work
is so good
1360
01:14:39,973 --> 01:14:42,083
that it's really winning over
a lot of people
1361
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:45,036
who were more dismissive of it
previously.
1362
01:14:45,062 --> 01:14:46,929
Where it'll wind up, who knows?
1363
01:14:48,198 --> 01:14:50,250
- Much of the art world
establishment
1364
01:14:50,279 --> 01:14:52,559
still hasn't accepted
Vivian Maier's work.
1365
01:14:52,582 --> 01:14:54,481
But people don't care.
1366
01:14:54,502 --> 01:14:57,995
They're not waiting for that
validation from institutions.
1367
01:14:58,022 --> 01:15:01,198
They're claiming Vivian Meier's
work for themselves.
1368
01:15:02,791 --> 01:15:05,650
Her work is now in galleries
in New York.
1369
01:15:09,991 --> 01:15:12,904
It can be seen in L.A.
1370
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,549
- There's one in particular
that I bought which I love.
1371
01:15:20,577 --> 01:15:22,410
There's an abject poverty
in the frame,
1372
01:15:22,433 --> 01:15:25,103
but there's also a happiness
in spite of it all.
1373
01:15:26,792 --> 01:15:29,706
- Her work is being seen
around the world-
1374
01:15:29,736 --> 01:15:33,326
London, Germany, Denmark.
1375
01:15:33,352 --> 01:15:37,390
They're embracing it, and
they're embracing Vivian Maier.
1376
01:15:43,848 --> 01:15:44,841
- Oui, oui, oui.
1377
01:16:22,570 --> 01:16:24,632
- Maybe this is the best way
of all for her,
1378
01:16:24,669 --> 01:16:27,499
to have it happen
after she's died.
1379
01:16:27,531 --> 01:16:29,484
That would probably make Viv
happiest,
1380
01:16:29,515 --> 01:16:31,721
'cause in her own life,
the attention, I think,
1381
01:16:31,757 --> 01:16:33,874
she would have found
overwhelming.
1382
01:16:35,883 --> 01:16:37,945
- Viv was supposed to be
downtrodden, right?
1383
01:16:37,982 --> 01:16:39,699
She was, like, a nanny.
1384
01:16:39,723 --> 01:16:42,457
That's not considered to be
a pretty high-ranking position
1385
01:16:42,493 --> 01:16:43,372
in life.
1386
01:16:43,403 --> 01:16:48,947
Not married, not any social life
to speak of.
1387
01:16:48,972 --> 01:16:53,010
She didn't have
these measures of status
1388
01:16:53,036 --> 01:16:55,600
that people aspire to,
1389
01:16:55,628 --> 01:16:59,829
but she didn't have to
compromise one bit.
1390
01:16:59,852 --> 01:17:01,074
She did what she wanted.
1391
01:17:01,099 --> 01:17:03,053
That's what she taught me,
1392
01:17:03,084 --> 01:17:04,762
is that she got the life
she wanted.
1393
01:17:04,799 --> 01:17:06,087
She had it.
1394
01:17:09,837 --> 01:17:13,743
- I understand a lot more
about her.
1395
01:17:16,301 --> 01:17:22,055
But why was this person
so private,
1396
01:17:22,253 --> 01:17:27,502
yet so prolific in an art form
that she never shared?
1397
01:17:27,533 --> 01:17:29,366
Who knows?
1398
01:17:29,390 --> 01:17:32,183
She did it
so it wouldn't be forgotten,
1399
01:17:32,205 --> 01:17:34,737
and here it's not forgotten.
1400
01:17:36,173 --> 01:17:37,646
- As she was photographing,
1401
01:17:37,678 --> 01:17:40,504
she was seeing just how close
you can come
1402
01:17:40,525 --> 01:17:44,694
into somebody's space
and make a picture of them.
1403
01:17:44,718 --> 01:17:46,387
That tells me a lot about her.
1404
01:17:46,414 --> 01:17:48,380
It tells me that she could go
into a space
1405
01:17:48,417 --> 01:17:49,904
with a total stranger
1406
01:17:49,934 --> 01:17:53,426
and get them to accommodate her
by being themselves
1407
01:17:53,454 --> 01:17:58,222
and generate
this kind of moment, you know,
1408
01:17:58,254 --> 01:18:00,819
where two presences
were actually
1409
01:18:00,847 --> 01:18:03,476
kind of vibrating together.
1410
01:18:07,631 --> 01:18:09,104
And then she's gone.
1411
01:18:17,488 --> 01:18:20,085
- Web, I suppose nothing
is meant to fast forever.
1412
01:18:20,112 --> 01:18:21,886
We have to make room
for other people.
1413
01:18:21,922 --> 01:18:22,969
Ifs a wheel.
1414
01:18:22,992 --> 01:18:24,766
You get on,
you have to go to the end,
1415
01:18:24,802 --> 01:18:26,868
and then somebody else
takes their place.
1416
01:18:26,896 --> 01:18:28,369
Now Pm going to close
1417
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,128
and quickly run next door
to do my work.