1 00:07:03,790 --> 00:07:05,917 I didn't know it was so bad. 2 00:07:06,325 --> 00:07:10,659 Couple of incendiaries, these old buildings go up like cellophane. 3 00:07:12,298 --> 00:07:15,927 There's a wall that separates the old section of Nuremberg from the new. 4 00:07:16,002 --> 00:07:17,560 Goes back to... 5 00:07:18,571 --> 00:07:20,368 How far does it go back, Schmidt? 6 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,908 - 1219, sir. - 1219. 7 00:07:25,344 --> 00:07:29,007 This is where the Nazi Party held their rallies, isn't it? 8 00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:33,309 They all came here. Hitler. Goebbels. The whole crew. 9 00:07:33,553 --> 00:07:36,351 Thousands of them, from all over Germany. 10 00:07:44,263 --> 00:07:47,164 Does he have to blow that damn horn so much? 11 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,767 It's not necessary to blow the horn so much, Schmidt. 12 00:08:02,648 --> 00:08:04,673 You both know your duties? 13 00:08:04,951 --> 00:08:08,011 Well, here we are. A little bit of old Germany. 14 00:08:08,254 --> 00:08:09,983 - Senator Burkette. - Captain. 15 00:08:10,056 --> 00:08:12,183 Captain Byers, this is Judge Haywood. 16 00:08:12,258 --> 00:08:14,818 - Byers here will be your aide. - My what? 17 00:08:14,894 --> 00:08:18,523 Clerk. General guide. Liaison. Any capacity you wish to use me in. 18 00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:21,192 This will be your staff, sir. Mr. And Mrs. Halbestadt. 19 00:08:21,267 --> 00:08:22,325 Hello. 20 00:08:22,401 --> 00:08:25,199 - Good afternoon. - Good afternoon, Your Honor. 21 00:08:25,271 --> 00:08:26,329 Welcome. 22 00:08:26,405 --> 00:08:28,270 You've already met your driver, Schmidt. 23 00:08:28,341 --> 00:08:31,139 I am at your service any time you need me. Day or night. 24 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:32,404 Thanks. 25 00:08:32,478 --> 00:08:35,174 Let's show him around the rest of the place. Dan? 26 00:08:35,248 --> 00:08:37,375 We're in the reception room. 27 00:08:39,385 --> 00:08:40,784 Living room. 28 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,444 Study is in there. 29 00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:45,923 There are two bedrooms on this floor, three upstairs. 30 00:08:47,727 --> 00:08:50,525 Furniture is part antique, part US Army. 31 00:08:55,735 --> 00:09:00,001 The piano's showing signs of wear and tear, but it's a genuine Bechstein. 32 00:09:00,573 --> 00:09:02,700 Quite a view, isn't it, sir? 33 00:09:06,445 --> 00:09:09,039 Senator, I really don't need all this. 34 00:09:09,482 --> 00:09:11,950 The United States government always does it right. 35 00:09:12,018 --> 00:09:13,986 - You know that, Dan. - Who used to live here? 36 00:09:14,053 --> 00:09:16,283 An important Nazi general and his wife, sir. 37 00:09:16,355 --> 00:09:19,381 Let's see. Is there anything else Judge Haywood ought to know? 38 00:09:19,458 --> 00:09:21,323 Sir, are there any questions? 39 00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:22,486 Yes. 40 00:09:23,529 --> 00:09:25,997 - You're West Point, aren't you, Captain? - Yes, sir. 41 00:09:26,065 --> 00:09:28,863 - What's your first name? - Harrison. Harry. 42 00:09:29,101 --> 00:09:31,262 Harry, look, I'm not West Point. 43 00:09:31,337 --> 00:09:35,899 And all this formality gets me down a little, not to say puts me ill at ease. 44 00:09:35,975 --> 00:09:39,001 Do you think it would be too much an infraction of the rules... 45 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:41,945 if you were to call me Judge, or Dan, or something? 46 00:09:42,014 --> 00:09:43,413 Okay, Judge. 47 00:09:43,482 --> 00:09:45,473 We shop at the army commissary. 48 00:09:45,551 --> 00:09:48,315 There isn't enough food at the local markets for the Germans. 49 00:09:48,387 --> 00:09:49,786 The driver knows where it is. 50 00:09:49,855 --> 00:09:53,882 Here's a copy of the indictment of the case. Thought you might want to look it over. 51 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,292 I hope you'll be comfortable here, sir. 52 00:09:56,362 --> 00:09:59,889 Captain, I think the whole state of Maine would be comfortable here. 53 00:09:59,966 --> 00:10:02,594 My office is next to yours at the Palace of Justice... 54 00:10:02,668 --> 00:10:04,465 - if you need anything. - Thank you. 55 00:10:04,537 --> 00:10:05,765 Senator? 56 00:10:12,011 --> 00:10:14,536 Do you think I really need the three servants? 57 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:17,105 It kind of makes me feel like a damn fool. 58 00:10:17,984 --> 00:10:21,545 It helps them out, as well as you. You see, here they eat. 59 00:10:22,989 --> 00:10:25,116 I need three servants. 60 00:10:26,225 --> 00:10:29,160 It's good to have a man of your stature here, Dan. 61 00:10:29,228 --> 00:10:30,354 Sure. 62 00:10:30,663 --> 00:10:34,030 I was the only man in America qualified for this job. 63 00:10:34,567 --> 00:10:37,661 Senator, you know I wasn't the first choice, nor even the tenth. 64 00:10:37,737 --> 00:10:39,864 - You know it, and I know it. - What do you mean? 65 00:10:39,939 --> 00:10:42,965 Let's face it. Hitler is gone, Goebbels is gone. 66 00:10:43,042 --> 00:10:45,909 Goering is gone. Committed suicide before they could hang him. 67 00:10:45,978 --> 00:10:49,744 Now we're down to the business of judging the doctors, businessmen and judges. 68 00:10:49,815 --> 00:10:52,045 Some people think they shouldn't be judged at all. 69 00:10:52,118 --> 00:10:53,142 So? 70 00:10:53,586 --> 00:10:56,953 So it makes for a hell of a lack of candidates for the job. 71 00:10:57,023 --> 00:11:00,891 You had to beat the backwoods of Maine to come up with a hick like me. 72 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,951 I hope you're not sorry you came. 73 00:11:03,029 --> 00:11:05,020 No. I'm not sorry I came. 74 00:11:05,097 --> 00:11:08,260 I just wanted you to know that I know where the body is buried. 75 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:10,734 No, I think the trials should go on. 76 00:11:10,803 --> 00:11:14,466 Especially the trials of the German judges. I hope I'm up to it. 77 00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:16,801 You're up to it. 78 00:11:17,109 --> 00:11:18,406 Relax. 79 00:11:18,978 --> 00:11:20,036 Thanks. 80 00:11:20,112 --> 00:11:22,342 Enjoy this place while you can. 81 00:11:22,415 --> 00:11:24,474 You're going to be a pretty busy fellow. 82 00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:26,245 Thanks for everything, Senator. 83 00:11:26,318 --> 00:11:28,548 - See you tomorrow, Judge. - Right. 84 00:11:29,588 --> 00:11:32,148 Shall we take these upstairs? 85 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:34,388 Yes. Thank you. 86 00:11:37,830 --> 00:11:41,732 - Here, I can take that... - No, let me take it. Please. 87 00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:19,361 Here they come. 88 00:12:51,036 --> 00:12:53,334 The tribunal is now in session. 89 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:56,966 God bless the United States and this honorable tribunal. 90 00:13:31,143 --> 00:13:33,907 The tribunal will now arraign the defendants. 91 00:13:33,979 --> 00:13:38,109 The microphone will be placed in front of the defendant, Emil Hahn. 92 00:13:43,856 --> 00:13:45,255 Emil Hahn? 93 00:13:45,324 --> 00:13:48,259 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 94 00:13:53,499 --> 00:13:54,830 Not guilty. 95 00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:58,392 The question was, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 96 00:14:03,642 --> 00:14:05,075 I am represented. 97 00:14:05,144 --> 00:14:08,011 How do you plead to the charges and specifications... 98 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,379 in the indictment against you? Guilty or not guilty? 99 00:14:13,652 --> 00:14:15,677 Not guilty on all counts. 100 00:14:16,555 --> 00:14:18,420 Friedrich Hoffstetter? 101 00:14:20,292 --> 00:14:23,420 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 102 00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:26,461 I am represented. 103 00:14:26,532 --> 00:14:29,228 How do you plead? Guilty or not guilty? 104 00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:33,765 You may be seated. 105 00:14:38,844 --> 00:14:40,368 Werner Lammpe? 106 00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:48,850 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 107 00:14:49,221 --> 00:14:50,449 Counsel? 108 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:57,460 Yes, of course. I am represented. 109 00:14:58,797 --> 00:15:02,255 How do you plead to the charges? Guilty or not guilty? 110 00:15:05,204 --> 00:15:06,865 You may be seated. 111 00:15:09,708 --> 00:15:11,232 Ernst Janning? 112 00:15:12,711 --> 00:15:16,010 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 113 00:15:35,734 --> 00:15:39,033 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 114 00:15:49,848 --> 00:15:52,476 I represent the defendant, Your Honor. 115 00:15:53,385 --> 00:15:57,082 How do you plead to the charges and specifications set forth... 116 00:15:57,156 --> 00:16:00,455 in the indictment against you? Guilty or not guilty? 117 00:16:04,897 --> 00:16:07,422 Your Honor, may I address the court? 118 00:16:19,411 --> 00:16:22,505 The defendant does not recognize the authority of this tribunal... 119 00:16:22,581 --> 00:16:26,142 and wishes to lodge a formal protest in lieu of pleading. 120 00:16:26,652 --> 00:16:29,246 A plea of "not guilty" will be entered. 121 00:16:43,335 --> 00:16:46,429 The prosecution will begin its opening address. 122 00:16:47,906 --> 00:16:49,237 Slow and easy, Junior. 123 00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:05,787 The case is unusual... 124 00:17:06,692 --> 00:17:09,422 in that the defendants are charged with crimes... 125 00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,929 committed in the name of the law. 126 00:17:12,965 --> 00:17:16,992 These men, together with their deceased or fugitive colleagues... 127 00:17:18,337 --> 00:17:22,933 are the embodiment of what passed for justice during the Third Reich. 128 00:17:24,243 --> 00:17:28,509 The defendants served as judges during the period of the Third Reich. 129 00:17:29,648 --> 00:17:33,106 Therefore, you, Your Honors, as judges on the bench... 130 00:17:33,419 --> 00:17:35,683 will be sitting in judgment... 131 00:17:36,455 --> 00:17:38,355 of judges in the dock. 132 00:17:40,125 --> 00:17:42,252 And this is as it should be. 133 00:17:42,761 --> 00:17:47,130 For only a judge knows how much more a court is than a courtroom. 134 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:50,895 It is a process and a spirit. 135 00:17:52,571 --> 00:17:54,471 It is the house of law. 136 00:17:57,009 --> 00:18:00,570 The defendants knew this, too. They knew courtrooms well. 137 00:18:00,846 --> 00:18:02,575 They sat in their black robes... 138 00:18:02,648 --> 00:18:07,108 and they distorted, they perverted, they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 139 00:18:07,186 --> 00:18:10,451 Will the prosecution please watch the light? 140 00:18:11,323 --> 00:18:14,656 - The interpreter cannot follow you. - I'm sorry, Your Honor. 141 00:18:14,827 --> 00:18:17,762 They distorted, they perverted... 142 00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:21,691 they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 143 00:18:23,435 --> 00:18:26,598 Now, this in itself is undoubtedly a great crime. 144 00:18:26,772 --> 00:18:29,366 But the prosecution is not calling the defendants... 145 00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:32,842 to account for violating constitutional guarantees... 146 00:18:32,911 --> 00:18:35,379 or withholding due process of law. 147 00:18:36,215 --> 00:18:39,150 The prosecution is calling them to account... 148 00:18:39,918 --> 00:18:41,283 for murder... 149 00:18:42,254 --> 00:18:43,687 brutalities... 150 00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:46,352 torture... 151 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:48,758 atrocities. 152 00:18:49,795 --> 00:18:53,561 They share with all the leaders of the Third Reich... 153 00:18:53,632 --> 00:18:57,193 responsibility for the most malignant, the most calculated... 154 00:18:57,269 --> 00:19:00,932 the most devastating crimes in the history of all mankind. 155 00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:04,970 And they are perhaps more guilty than some of the others. 156 00:19:05,043 --> 00:19:09,446 For they had attained maturity long before Hitler's rise to power. 157 00:19:10,215 --> 00:19:14,379 Their minds weren't warped at an early age by Nazi teachings. 158 00:19:15,053 --> 00:19:19,956 They embraced the ideologies of the Third Reich as educated adults... 159 00:19:20,692 --> 00:19:23,627 when they, most of all... 160 00:19:23,695 --> 00:19:25,788 should have valued justice. 161 00:19:31,603 --> 00:19:34,936 Here they'll receive the justice they denied others. 162 00:19:37,242 --> 00:19:41,736 They'll be judged according to the evidence presented in this courtroom. 163 00:19:42,381 --> 00:19:44,815 The prosecution asks nothing more. 164 00:19:48,887 --> 00:19:52,584 Herr Rolfe will make the opening statement for the defense. 165 00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:10,535 May it please the tribunal... 166 00:20:12,978 --> 00:20:15,276 it is not only a great honor... 167 00:20:17,416 --> 00:20:19,008 but also a great challenge... 168 00:20:19,785 --> 00:20:21,184 for an advocate... 169 00:20:23,121 --> 00:20:25,555 to aid this tribunal in its task. 170 00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:29,685 The entire civilized world... 171 00:20:31,129 --> 00:20:33,029 will follow closely what we do here. 172 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,968 For this is not an ordinary trial... 173 00:20:38,403 --> 00:20:41,338 by any means of the accepted, parochial sense. 174 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:46,073 The avowed purpose of this tribunal... 175 00:20:46,144 --> 00:20:49,705 Is broader than the visiting of retribution on a few men. 176 00:20:50,749 --> 00:20:54,480 It is dedicated to the reconsecration... 177 00:20:55,587 --> 00:20:57,578 of the temple of justice. 178 00:20:57,656 --> 00:21:00,784 It is dedicated to finding a code of justice... 179 00:21:00,993 --> 00:21:03,723 the whole world will be responsible to. 180 00:21:07,132 --> 00:21:09,566 How will this code be established? 181 00:21:12,738 --> 00:21:14,729 It will be established... 182 00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:18,999 in a clear... 183 00:21:20,045 --> 00:21:22,570 honest evaluation... 184 00:21:22,648 --> 00:21:27,517 of the responsibility for the crimes in the indictment stated by the prosecution. 185 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,254 In the words of the great American jurist, Oliver Wendell Holmes: 186 00:21:34,493 --> 00:21:37,587 "This responsibility will not be found only in documents... 187 00:21:37,663 --> 00:21:40,029 "that no one contests or denies. 188 00:21:40,732 --> 00:21:44,896 "It will be found in considerations of a political or social nature. 189 00:21:46,138 --> 00:21:49,198 "It will be found, most of all... 190 00:21:50,776 --> 00:21:52,801 "in the character of men. " 191 00:21:55,514 --> 00:21:58,210 What is the character of Ernst Janning? 192 00:22:00,552 --> 00:22:03,146 Let us examine his life for a moment. 193 00:22:04,656 --> 00:22:06,453 He was born in 1885. 194 00:22:07,159 --> 00:22:10,128 Received the degree of Doctor of Law in 1907. 195 00:22:10,195 --> 00:22:12,959 Became a judge in East Prussia in 1940. 196 00:22:13,031 --> 00:22:16,694 Following WWI, he became one of the leaders of the Weimar Republic... 197 00:22:16,768 --> 00:22:19,669 and was one of the framers of its democratic constitution. 198 00:22:19,738 --> 00:22:22,536 In subsequent years he achieved international fame... 199 00:22:22,607 --> 00:22:26,805 not only for his work as a great jurist, but also as the author of legal text books... 200 00:22:26,878 --> 00:22:29,870 which are still used in universities all over the world. 201 00:22:29,948 --> 00:22:33,816 He became Minister of Justice in Germany in 1935. 202 00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:37,853 If Ernst Janning is to be found guilty... 203 00:22:38,357 --> 00:22:40,825 certain implications must arise. 204 00:22:41,593 --> 00:22:45,256 A judge does not make the laws. 205 00:22:46,865 --> 00:22:49,595 He carries out the laws of his country. 206 00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:52,565 The statement: 207 00:22:52,637 --> 00:22:55,299 "My country, right or wrong... " 208 00:22:56,508 --> 00:22:59,341 was expressed by a great American patriot. 209 00:23:01,747 --> 00:23:04,477 It is no less true for a German patriot. 210 00:23:08,253 --> 00:23:12,087 Should Ernst Janning have carried out the laws of his country? 211 00:23:12,157 --> 00:23:16,150 Or should he have refused to carry them out and become a traitor? 212 00:23:16,762 --> 00:23:20,391 This is the crux of the issue at the bottom of this trial. 213 00:23:24,336 --> 00:23:27,828 The defense is as dedicated to finding responsibility... 214 00:23:29,107 --> 00:23:31,007 as is the prosecution. 215 00:23:32,711 --> 00:23:36,442 For it is not only Ernst Janning who is on trial here... 216 00:23:40,685 --> 00:23:42,676 it is the German people. 217 00:23:46,758 --> 00:23:50,091 The tribunal will recess until further notification. 218 00:24:27,833 --> 00:24:31,633 If it's all right with you, Byers can file these briefs later. 219 00:24:32,938 --> 00:24:36,635 That was quite a damning speech by Col. Lawson, wasn't it? 220 00:24:37,509 --> 00:24:40,740 I wonder if those men in the dock can really be responsible... 221 00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:42,939 for the things he listed in the indictment. 222 00:24:43,014 --> 00:24:45,881 I've been here for two years, and after that long... 223 00:24:45,951 --> 00:24:49,546 you find that responsibility is not a cut-and-dried thing. 224 00:24:49,988 --> 00:24:52,354 What are you fellows up to over the weekend? 225 00:24:52,424 --> 00:24:54,858 My wife and I are going to Li�ge. 226 00:24:54,926 --> 00:24:57,156 There's nothing in Li�ge. I've been there. 227 00:24:57,229 --> 00:24:59,197 My son was in the 101st. 228 00:24:59,264 --> 00:25:02,290 He's buried in the American cemetery outside Li�ge. 229 00:25:02,901 --> 00:25:04,266 I'm sorry. 230 00:25:04,636 --> 00:25:06,263 That's all right. 231 00:25:06,338 --> 00:25:08,101 See you Monday, Dan. 232 00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:11,308 Coming my way? 233 00:25:11,376 --> 00:25:15,540 No, I'm going to stay here for a moment. I'm waiting for some records from Byers. 234 00:25:15,614 --> 00:25:16,774 Right. 235 00:25:38,603 --> 00:25:40,537 Here are the reports you asked for, sir. 236 00:25:40,605 --> 00:25:41,970 Thank you. 237 00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:49,040 Captain, do you think you can get me a copy of the books Ernst Janning wrote? 238 00:25:49,414 --> 00:25:52,508 - There are quite a few of them. - I'd like all of them. 239 00:25:52,584 --> 00:25:55,052 And also a copy of the Weimar constitution. 240 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,384 - Do you think you can get that for me? - Of course. 241 00:25:57,455 --> 00:25:58,786 Thank you. 242 00:26:02,794 --> 00:26:05,991 - How long have you been here, Captain? - Two years. 243 00:26:06,064 --> 00:26:08,862 - Two years? That's a long time. - Yes, sir. 244 00:26:09,034 --> 00:26:11,025 - Any friends? - Sure. 245 00:26:13,171 --> 00:26:14,695 German friends? 246 00:26:14,906 --> 00:26:15,964 Yes. 247 00:26:16,808 --> 00:26:18,002 A girl? 248 00:26:18,276 --> 00:26:19,436 Yes. 249 00:26:20,312 --> 00:26:23,338 Her parents were Nazis, but she was eight when they came in. 250 00:26:23,415 --> 00:26:25,110 - I didn't ask you that. - I know. 251 00:26:25,183 --> 00:26:28,516 But maybe you were thinking it. It's natural to think about it. 252 00:26:28,587 --> 00:26:32,148 I thought if anybody was going to indoctrinate her, it might as well be me. 253 00:26:32,223 --> 00:26:33,417 Will there be anything else? 254 00:26:33,491 --> 00:26:36,153 No, I think I'll just take a walk around town on my own. 255 00:26:36,227 --> 00:26:39,196 Try the old section. Everyone stops for beer and sausage there. 256 00:26:39,264 --> 00:26:40,595 Thank you. 257 00:28:10,221 --> 00:28:12,553 - Do you understand English? - Yes, a little. 258 00:28:12,624 --> 00:28:16,060 - What did she say? - She said, "Goodbye, Grandpa. " 259 00:29:30,168 --> 00:29:31,863 Are they treating you all right? 260 00:29:31,936 --> 00:29:34,427 Yes. They're treating me all right. 261 00:29:34,539 --> 00:29:36,700 We still have some friends... 262 00:29:37,142 --> 00:29:39,940 who have contact with the American authorities. 263 00:29:40,145 --> 00:29:42,579 I can tell them if they're not treating you all right. 264 00:29:42,647 --> 00:29:44,877 They're treating me all right. 265 00:29:47,752 --> 00:29:49,379 Dr. Janning... 266 00:29:51,823 --> 00:29:54,348 we are both in an embarrassing position. 267 00:29:54,425 --> 00:29:56,620 I know you didn't want me as your counsel. 268 00:29:56,694 --> 00:29:58,889 I know you didn't want anyone. 269 00:30:00,298 --> 00:30:04,166 But I must tell you something. Will you listen to me? 270 00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:05,761 Yes. 271 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,701 I intend to represent your case with complete dignity. 272 00:30:13,978 --> 00:30:15,309 There will be... 273 00:30:16,481 --> 00:30:20,975 no appeal to sentiment, no falling at the mercy of the court. 274 00:30:21,619 --> 00:30:22,984 The game... 275 00:30:24,355 --> 00:30:27,654 will be played according to their own rules. 276 00:30:29,394 --> 00:30:34,058 We'll see whether they have the courage to sit in judgment on a man like you. 277 00:30:35,867 --> 00:30:37,630 The way I see it... 278 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:43,206 the most important elements in the case... 279 00:30:44,142 --> 00:30:48,203 are the sterilization decrees, and the Feldenstein-Hoffman affair. 280 00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:57,086 Dr. Janning, I must tell you something. 281 00:31:02,260 --> 00:31:03,852 I admired you... 282 00:31:05,163 --> 00:31:07,688 since I was a boy in the university. 283 00:31:09,067 --> 00:31:12,468 It was because I thought I might be able to achieve... 284 00:31:12,537 --> 00:31:14,971 some of the things you have done... 285 00:31:19,244 --> 00:31:21,337 that saw me through the war. 286 00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:26,647 You have been somebody to look up to, for all of us. 287 00:31:29,854 --> 00:31:31,822 Is that all, Herr Rolfe? 288 00:31:36,594 --> 00:31:37,652 Yes. 289 00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:39,060 Thank you. 290 00:31:49,107 --> 00:31:53,100 Dr. Wieck, do you know the defendant, Ernst Janning? 291 00:31:56,214 --> 00:31:57,875 Yes, I know him. 292 00:31:57,949 --> 00:32:00,383 Will you tell us in what capacity? 293 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:05,818 We served in the Ministry of Justice together from 1929 till 1935. 294 00:32:06,457 --> 00:32:08,516 Did you know him before that? 295 00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:09,651 Yes. 296 00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:12,526 He was a law student of mine. 297 00:32:12,597 --> 00:32:14,258 - Did you know him well? - Yes. 298 00:32:14,332 --> 00:32:16,129 - Was he a prot�g� of yours? - Yes. 299 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,258 Why? 300 00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:21,537 He was always a man of great intelligence. 301 00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:26,801 He was a man born with the qualities of a great legal mind. 302 00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:34,718 Would you tell us from your own experience... 303 00:32:35,353 --> 00:32:40,188 the position of the judge in Germany prior to the advent of Adolf Hitler. 304 00:32:41,893 --> 00:32:45,590 The position of the judge was one of complete independence. 305 00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:50,230 Now, would you describe the contrast, if any... 306 00:32:51,135 --> 00:32:54,969 after the coming to power of National Socialism in 1933? 307 00:32:55,673 --> 00:33:00,133 Judges became subject to something outside of objective justice. 308 00:33:01,479 --> 00:33:06,382 They became subject to what was necessary for the protection of the country. 309 00:33:07,385 --> 00:33:09,250 Would you explain this, please? 310 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,151 The first consideration of the judge... 311 00:33:11,222 --> 00:33:14,316 became the punishment of acts against the state... 312 00:33:14,826 --> 00:33:18,159 rather than objective consideration of the case. 313 00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:20,830 And what other changes were there? 314 00:33:21,466 --> 00:33:24,492 The right to appeal was eliminated. 315 00:33:25,303 --> 00:33:28,466 The Supreme Court of the Reich was replaced by... 316 00:33:29,407 --> 00:33:31,568 People's and Special Courts. 317 00:33:32,777 --> 00:33:37,646 The concept of race was made a legal concept for the first time. 318 00:33:38,249 --> 00:33:40,581 And what was the result of this? 319 00:33:41,352 --> 00:33:42,717 The result? 320 00:33:44,555 --> 00:33:48,286 The result was to hand over the administration of justice... 321 00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:50,850 into the hands of the dictatorship. 322 00:33:51,229 --> 00:33:52,560 Now, Dr. Wieck... 323 00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:55,963 Col. Lawson, I would like to ask a few questions. 324 00:33:56,667 --> 00:34:01,070 Did the judiciary protest these laws abridging their independence? 325 00:34:01,139 --> 00:34:02,800 A few of them did. 326 00:34:03,041 --> 00:34:06,204 Those who did resigned, or were forced to resign. 327 00:34:10,481 --> 00:34:13,541 Others adapted themselves to the new situation. 328 00:34:15,219 --> 00:34:19,212 Do you think the judiciary was aware of the consequences to come? 329 00:34:20,224 --> 00:34:22,089 At first, perhaps not. 330 00:34:24,562 --> 00:34:28,328 Later it became clear to anyone who had eyes and ears. 331 00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:29,730 Thank you. 332 00:34:31,269 --> 00:34:35,899 Now, would you please describe for us the changes in criminal law? 333 00:34:36,707 --> 00:34:38,732 It was characterized by... 334 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:42,041 an ever-increasing inflation of the death penalty. 335 00:34:43,014 --> 00:34:45,744 Sentences were passed against defendants... 336 00:34:45,817 --> 00:34:50,516 just because they were Poles, or Jews, or politically undesirable. 337 00:34:52,256 --> 00:34:55,817 Novel National Socialist measures were introduced. 338 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,525 Among them... 339 00:34:57,595 --> 00:35:02,032 sexual sterilization for those who were categorized as asocial. 340 00:35:02,366 --> 00:35:04,766 Did it become necessary for judges... 341 00:35:04,836 --> 00:35:09,296 to wear any distinctive mark on their robes in 1935? 342 00:35:09,907 --> 00:35:12,171 The so-called Fuehrer's Decree... 343 00:35:12,243 --> 00:35:16,407 required judges to wear the insignia of the swastika on their robes. 344 00:35:16,747 --> 00:35:19,238 - Did you wear such an insignia? - No. 345 00:35:20,251 --> 00:35:22,515 I would have been ashamed to wear it. 346 00:35:22,587 --> 00:35:24,851 Did you resign in 1935? 347 00:35:25,089 --> 00:35:26,351 Yes, sir. 348 00:35:26,924 --> 00:35:29,916 Did Ernst Janning wear a swastika on his robe? 349 00:35:34,298 --> 00:35:35,356 Yes. 350 00:35:36,534 --> 00:35:38,399 That's all. Thank you. 351 00:35:42,974 --> 00:35:44,339 Herr Rolfe. 352 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,716 You used the phrase, "What was necessary for the protection of the country. " 353 00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:04,885 Will you explain for the tribunal... 354 00:36:04,962 --> 00:36:08,796 the conditions in Germany at the time National Socialism came to power? 355 00:36:08,866 --> 00:36:10,458 What conditions? 356 00:36:13,871 --> 00:36:16,237 Would you say there was widespread hunger? 357 00:36:16,307 --> 00:36:17,467 Yes. 358 00:36:17,542 --> 00:36:20,067 Would you say there was internal disunity? 359 00:36:20,144 --> 00:36:21,202 Yes. 360 00:36:21,412 --> 00:36:23,277 Was there a Communist Party? 361 00:36:23,347 --> 00:36:24,371 Yes. 362 00:36:24,448 --> 00:36:27,315 Was it the third-largest party in Germany? 363 00:36:27,385 --> 00:36:28,443 Yes. 364 00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:30,612 Would you say... 365 00:36:31,656 --> 00:36:35,990 that National Socialism helped to cure some of these conditions? 366 00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:38,861 Yes, but at a terrible price... 367 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:42,832 Please confine yourself to answering the questions only. 368 00:36:44,435 --> 00:36:48,531 Therefore, was it not possible that a judge might wear a swastika... 369 00:36:48,606 --> 00:36:51,541 and yet work for what he thought was best for his country? 370 00:36:51,609 --> 00:36:53,600 No. It was not possible. 371 00:37:01,452 --> 00:37:03,579 You were not in the administration... 372 00:37:03,654 --> 00:37:07,988 from the years 1935 to 1943... 373 00:37:08,693 --> 00:37:10,558 by your own admission. 374 00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:15,663 Is it not possible that your view of the administration... 375 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,193 might be distorted? 376 00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:20,326 No. It is not. 377 00:37:21,973 --> 00:37:26,307 How can you testify about what was going on in the administration... 378 00:37:26,377 --> 00:37:27,935 if you were not there? 379 00:37:28,012 --> 00:37:30,742 I had many friends in the legal administration. 380 00:37:30,815 --> 00:37:33,045 There were journals and books. 381 00:37:34,785 --> 00:37:37,413 From journals and books? 382 00:37:41,392 --> 00:37:42,689 I see. 383 00:37:44,829 --> 00:37:47,059 You referred to: 384 00:37:47,131 --> 00:37:49,861 "Novel National Socialist measures introduced... 385 00:37:49,934 --> 00:37:52,300 "among them sexual sterilization. " 386 00:37:53,471 --> 00:37:57,567 Are you aware that sexual sterilization was not invented by National Socialism... 387 00:37:57,642 --> 00:38:00,509 but had been advanced for years before as a weapon... 388 00:38:00,578 --> 00:38:03,877 in dealing with the mentally incompetent and the criminal? 389 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:05,779 Yes. I am aware of that. 390 00:38:05,850 --> 00:38:10,150 Are you aware that it has advocates among leading citizens in other countries? 391 00:38:10,221 --> 00:38:12,553 I am not an expert on such laws. 392 00:38:13,924 --> 00:38:16,358 Then permit me to read one to you. 393 00:38:20,164 --> 00:38:22,428 This is a High Court opinion... 394 00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:26,830 upholding such laws in existence in another country. 395 00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:30,038 And I quote: 396 00:38:35,112 --> 00:38:37,979 "We have seen more than once that the public welfare... 397 00:38:38,049 --> 00:38:40,950 "may call upon the best citizens for their lives. 398 00:38:41,018 --> 00:38:44,385 "It would be strange indeed, if it could not call upon those... 399 00:38:44,455 --> 00:38:48,585 "who already sapped the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices... 400 00:38:48,659 --> 00:38:52,095 "in order to prevent our being swamped by incompetence. 401 00:38:52,163 --> 00:38:53,630 "It is better for all the world... 402 00:38:53,698 --> 00:38:56,997 "if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offsprings for crime... 403 00:38:57,068 --> 00:39:01,528 "or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent their propagation... 404 00:39:01,605 --> 00:39:04,574 "by medical means in the first place. 405 00:39:07,545 --> 00:39:10,480 "Three generations of imbeciles are enough. " 406 00:39:14,018 --> 00:39:16,509 Do you recognize it now, Dr. Wieck? 407 00:39:16,854 --> 00:39:18,515 No, sir, I don't. 408 00:39:19,457 --> 00:39:22,858 Actually, there is no particular reason you should... 409 00:39:23,094 --> 00:39:25,756 since the opinion upholds the sterilization law... 410 00:39:25,830 --> 00:39:28,993 in the State of Virginia, of the United States... 411 00:39:29,433 --> 00:39:32,459 and was written and delivered by that great American jurist... 412 00:39:32,536 --> 00:39:37,530 Supreme Court Justice, Oliver Wendell Holmes. 413 00:39:47,585 --> 00:39:50,315 Now, Dr. Wieck. 414 00:39:51,489 --> 00:39:53,923 In view of what you have just learned... 415 00:39:53,991 --> 00:39:58,860 can you still say that sexual sterilization was a novel National Socialist measure? 416 00:39:58,929 --> 00:40:00,396 Yes, I can say it. 417 00:40:01,432 --> 00:40:05,892 Because it was never before used as a weapon against political opponents. 418 00:40:07,972 --> 00:40:09,940 Do you personally know of a case... 419 00:40:10,007 --> 00:40:13,272 where someone was sterilized for political reasons? 420 00:40:13,778 --> 00:40:15,609 I know that such things were done. 421 00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,978 That's not the question. Please answer the question. 422 00:40:19,817 --> 00:40:21,375 Do you know of a case? 423 00:40:21,452 --> 00:40:25,013 I don't know of any specific case, or specific date... 424 00:40:25,089 --> 00:40:29,856 I am asking you if you have any firsthand, personal knowledge of such a case! 425 00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:33,153 No, I have no such personal knowledge. 426 00:40:33,664 --> 00:40:35,029 Thank you. 427 00:40:50,948 --> 00:40:55,851 You are aware of the charges in the indictment against Ernst Janning? 428 00:41:01,692 --> 00:41:03,023 Yes, I am. 429 00:41:04,762 --> 00:41:09,028 Can you honestly say he is responsible for them? 430 00:41:10,501 --> 00:41:11,866 Yes, I can. 431 00:41:13,804 --> 00:41:17,604 Do you consider yourself free of responsibility? 432 00:41:20,544 --> 00:41:21,875 Yes, I do. 433 00:41:26,684 --> 00:41:30,085 Did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 434 00:41:30,154 --> 00:41:32,145 Your Honor, I object. 435 00:41:32,456 --> 00:41:34,686 The witness doesn't have to answer that question. 436 00:41:34,758 --> 00:41:36,749 He's not on trial. 437 00:41:37,495 --> 00:41:39,486 All Germany is on trial, Your Honor. 438 00:41:39,563 --> 00:41:43,021 This tribunal placed it on trial when it placed Ernst Janning on trial. 439 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:47,560 If responsibility is to be found, the widest latitude is to be permitted. 440 00:41:48,472 --> 00:41:50,235 Objection overruled. 441 00:41:51,475 --> 00:41:55,104 Did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 442 00:41:57,882 --> 00:41:59,076 Everyone did. 443 00:41:59,149 --> 00:42:01,879 We are not interested in what everyone did. 444 00:42:01,952 --> 00:42:04,284 We are interested in what you did. 445 00:42:04,355 --> 00:42:08,724 Would you read the oath from the Reich Law Gazette, March, 1933? 446 00:42:09,627 --> 00:42:11,527 "I swear that I shall be obedient... 447 00:42:11,595 --> 00:42:14,621 "to the leader of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler. 448 00:42:14,698 --> 00:42:17,758 "That I shall be loyal to him, that I will observe the laws... 449 00:42:17,835 --> 00:42:20,303 "and that I will conscientiously fulfill my duties... 450 00:42:20,371 --> 00:42:21,929 "so help me God. " 451 00:42:22,806 --> 00:42:24,603 Everyone swore to it. 452 00:42:25,976 --> 00:42:27,637 It was mandatory. 453 00:42:29,747 --> 00:42:30,839 Yes. 454 00:42:32,483 --> 00:42:35,418 But you're such a perceptive man, Dr. Wieck. 455 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,515 You could see what was coming. 456 00:42:38,589 --> 00:42:42,889 You could see that National Socialism was leading Germany to disaster. 457 00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:46,386 "It was clear to anyone who had eyes and ears. " 458 00:42:48,265 --> 00:42:50,062 Didn't you realize... 459 00:42:50,734 --> 00:42:54,761 what it would have meant if you, and men like you... 460 00:42:55,506 --> 00:42:58,270 would have refused to swear to the oath? 461 00:42:58,776 --> 00:43:03,213 It would have meant that Hitler could never have come to absolute power. 462 00:43:06,417 --> 00:43:07,975 Why didn't you? 463 00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:11,178 Why didn't you? 464 00:43:11,889 --> 00:43:14,187 Can you give us an explanation? 465 00:43:15,292 --> 00:43:17,453 Has it something to do with your pension? 466 00:43:17,528 --> 00:43:20,088 Did your pension mean more to you than your country? 467 00:43:20,164 --> 00:43:21,563 Your Honor! 468 00:43:21,932 --> 00:43:26,266 I object to the entire line of questioning, and ask that it be stricken from the record. 469 00:43:26,337 --> 00:43:29,773 I thought prosecuting counsel was dedicated to finding responsibility. 470 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,774 Your Honor, I made an objection. 471 00:43:31,842 --> 00:43:34,675 Prosecution is not interested in finding responsibility? 472 00:43:34,745 --> 00:43:38,681 There is responsibility for more here than swearing to a loyalty oath... 473 00:43:38,749 --> 00:43:40,740 - and you know it. - There is indeed. 474 00:43:40,818 --> 00:43:44,914 One thing that even the German machine, with its monumental efficiency... 475 00:43:44,989 --> 00:43:46,581 has been unable to destroy... 476 00:43:46,657 --> 00:43:47,783 Order. 477 00:43:47,858 --> 00:43:51,021 All the victims. More victims than the world has ever known. 478 00:43:51,095 --> 00:43:54,030 - They will walk into this courtroom... - Order! 479 00:43:55,499 --> 00:43:59,993 This tribunal will admonish both counsel. It will tolerate nothing of this kind again. 480 00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:03,562 We're not here to listen to outbursts of this kind, but to serve justice. 481 00:44:03,641 --> 00:44:05,404 Your Honor, I made an objection. 482 00:44:05,476 --> 00:44:07,376 The objection is overruled. 483 00:44:08,779 --> 00:44:10,679 The witness is excused. 484 00:44:43,747 --> 00:44:45,806 Did you ever read any books by Janning? 485 00:44:45,883 --> 00:44:47,180 No, I don't think so. 486 00:44:47,251 --> 00:44:50,118 - The Meaning of the Law. - How is it? Interesting? 487 00:44:50,187 --> 00:44:53,247 All the books by Janning are interesting. They're more than that. 488 00:44:53,323 --> 00:44:56,952 They're a picture of an era, its hopes, its aspirations. 489 00:44:57,094 --> 00:44:59,528 They weren't very different from ours, really. 490 00:44:59,596 --> 00:45:03,225 Listen to this, on the signing of the Weimar constitution: 491 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,327 "Now we can look forward to a Germany without guns and bloodshed... 492 00:45:07,404 --> 00:45:10,965 "a Germany of justice, where men can live instead of die... 493 00:45:11,275 --> 00:45:14,335 "a Germany of purpose, of freedom, of humanity... 494 00:45:14,411 --> 00:45:16,879 "a Germany that calls for the best in man. " 495 00:45:16,947 --> 00:45:19,438 Now, how could a man who wrote words like these... 496 00:45:19,516 --> 00:45:22,952 be part of sterilizations and murders? How could he be? 497 00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:26,854 There are a lot of things that happened here that nobody understands. 498 00:45:26,924 --> 00:45:28,118 I know. 499 00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:31,554 But the prosecution will have to prove... 500 00:45:31,628 --> 00:45:32,959 every inch of its allegation... 501 00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:36,932 against a man like Janning if I'm to pronounce sentence on him. 502 00:45:37,367 --> 00:45:40,302 Gentlemen, I'm on my way. Coming, Ken? 503 00:45:40,404 --> 00:45:41,564 Right. 504 00:45:42,072 --> 00:45:45,769 There's just this business on the curtailment of rights. 505 00:45:46,243 --> 00:45:47,574 Tomorrow. 506 00:45:47,644 --> 00:45:51,637 Dan, my wife is planning a little get-together tomorrow night at the Grand Hotel. 507 00:45:51,715 --> 00:45:53,546 She wants you to come. 508 00:45:53,617 --> 00:45:54,982 I thank you. 509 00:45:55,052 --> 00:45:59,284 And she'd like to provide you with some kind of female companionship. 510 00:45:59,389 --> 00:46:01,755 She has a feeling that you might be lonely here. 511 00:46:01,825 --> 00:46:03,986 No, thanks, Curtiss. Thanks very much. 512 00:46:04,061 --> 00:46:06,723 You know how these wives are. They love to play Cupid. 513 00:46:06,797 --> 00:46:08,662 I think I'll keep it stag. 514 00:46:08,732 --> 00:46:10,324 All right. How about you, Ken? 515 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,960 Thanks. My wife and I have an engagement. Good night. 516 00:46:13,036 --> 00:46:15,129 - Good night. - Good night, Dan. 517 00:46:35,459 --> 00:46:37,586 Mrs. Halbestadt, could I... 518 00:46:39,663 --> 00:46:40,755 Hello. 519 00:46:42,065 --> 00:46:43,225 Hello. 520 00:46:44,701 --> 00:46:47,226 Your Honor, this is Madame Bertholt. 521 00:46:47,671 --> 00:46:50,071 This is His Honor, Judge Haywood. 522 00:46:51,175 --> 00:46:53,700 Madame Bertholt, this is her house. 523 00:46:54,511 --> 00:46:57,071 She came to get some of her belongings from the basement. 524 00:46:57,147 --> 00:46:59,115 I didn't know she was coming. 525 00:46:59,183 --> 00:47:01,743 This is my responsibility, Mrs. Halbestadt. 526 00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:03,810 I've been storing some of my things here... 527 00:47:03,887 --> 00:47:06,856 until I could get a room large enough to keep them in. 528 00:47:06,924 --> 00:47:08,323 I hope you don't mind. 529 00:47:08,392 --> 00:47:09,916 No. Not at all. 530 00:47:10,194 --> 00:47:12,719 You can examine what I have here, if you like. 531 00:47:13,130 --> 00:47:14,495 Of course not. 532 00:47:14,832 --> 00:47:16,459 Then I'll just take these out. 533 00:47:16,533 --> 00:47:18,228 - Here. - Thanks, Mrs. Halbestadt. 534 00:47:18,302 --> 00:47:20,395 - Let me help you. - No. I can manage all right. 535 00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:21,960 I'll take these outside. Please. 536 00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:23,336 Good night. 537 00:47:37,387 --> 00:47:39,719 It's heavy. It's full of books and pictures... 538 00:47:39,790 --> 00:47:42,623 things that mean nothing to anyone but me. 539 00:47:42,726 --> 00:47:44,717 - Mr. Schmidt? - Your Honor. 540 00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:48,996 Would you drive Mrs. Bertholt home, please? 541 00:47:49,066 --> 00:47:50,556 Yes, Your Honor. 542 00:47:50,634 --> 00:47:53,432 - I hope you're comfortable here. - Yes, I am. Very. 543 00:47:53,503 --> 00:47:55,903 My favorite spot was always the garden. 544 00:47:55,973 --> 00:47:59,067 Remind Mr. Halbestadt to take good care of the rock garden. 545 00:47:59,142 --> 00:48:02,373 You'll get a great deal of pleasure out of it in summer. 546 00:48:02,446 --> 00:48:04,641 I'll sit in front, thank you. 547 00:48:06,783 --> 00:48:08,478 - Good night. - Good night. 548 00:48:08,552 --> 00:48:11,419 - Karolinenstrasse 115, please. - Yes, madam. 549 00:48:32,009 --> 00:48:33,271 Sit down. 550 00:48:37,314 --> 00:48:40,772 You worked for Mrs. Bertholt, didn't you? 551 00:48:40,851 --> 00:48:42,443 Yes, Your Honor. 552 00:48:42,619 --> 00:48:44,712 How long did she live here? 553 00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:46,514 Madame Bertholt? 554 00:48:47,524 --> 00:48:52,359 Madame Bertholt and her family have lived here for many generations, Your Honor. 555 00:48:52,696 --> 00:48:54,027 Thank you. 556 00:48:55,766 --> 00:48:58,599 Your Honor, you came in here for something? 557 00:49:00,203 --> 00:49:02,831 I was just going to make myself a sandwich. 558 00:49:03,006 --> 00:49:04,564 - We will make it for you. - No. 559 00:49:04,641 --> 00:49:07,109 - We will make anything you want. - No. It's nothing. 560 00:49:07,177 --> 00:49:09,145 I always used to do it for myself back home. 561 00:49:09,212 --> 00:49:13,046 What would you like? I have some ham and cheese and liverwurst. 562 00:49:13,784 --> 00:49:15,581 Cheese will be fine. 563 00:49:17,321 --> 00:49:19,312 That's very kind of you. 564 00:49:28,665 --> 00:49:32,066 What was it like, living under National Socialism? 565 00:49:33,971 --> 00:49:35,598 What was it like? 566 00:49:35,872 --> 00:49:38,864 Yes. I mean, day to day? 567 00:49:39,543 --> 00:49:42,137 You know, I know many people at home like you. 568 00:49:42,212 --> 00:49:44,703 You're good people. I believe that. 569 00:49:46,383 --> 00:49:49,181 What was it like for you, living under Hitler? 570 00:49:49,252 --> 00:49:53,086 We were not political. Mr. Halbestadt and I are not political. 571 00:49:55,892 --> 00:49:57,257 No, but... 572 00:49:57,828 --> 00:50:02,094 you must have been aware of some of the events that were going on. 573 00:50:04,134 --> 00:50:06,568 Many things were going on. 574 00:50:06,636 --> 00:50:08,467 There were parades. 575 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,838 Hitler and Goebbels came here every year. 576 00:50:14,411 --> 00:50:16,072 What was it like? 577 00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:19,812 We never attended meetings. Never. 578 00:50:20,984 --> 00:50:23,043 I'm not trying to put you on trial. 579 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,146 I'm just curious. I'd like to know. 580 00:50:27,557 --> 00:50:30,492 - Here's your sandwich, Your Honor. - Thank you. 581 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,084 You're welcome. 582 00:50:32,596 --> 00:50:33,961 Thank you. 583 00:50:37,267 --> 00:50:39,701 For instance, there was a place called Dachau... 584 00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:42,466 which was not too many miles from here. 585 00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:45,437 Did you ever know what was going on there? 586 00:50:46,343 --> 00:50:49,335 We knew nothing about it. 587 00:50:51,481 --> 00:50:55,975 How can you ask if we knew anything about that? 588 00:50:58,055 --> 00:50:59,386 I'm sorry. 589 00:51:01,792 --> 00:51:05,250 Your Honor, we are only little people. 590 00:51:06,763 --> 00:51:08,890 We lost a son in the army... 591 00:51:10,467 --> 00:51:12,833 and our daughter in the bombing. 592 00:51:14,671 --> 00:51:17,299 During the war we almost starved. 593 00:51:18,642 --> 00:51:20,542 It was terrible for us. 594 00:51:22,245 --> 00:51:23,837 I'm sure it was. 595 00:51:27,784 --> 00:51:29,911 Hitler did some good things. 596 00:51:31,088 --> 00:51:33,921 I won't say he didn't do some good things. 597 00:51:34,925 --> 00:51:36,790 He built the Autobahn. 598 00:51:37,461 --> 00:51:39,452 He gave more people work. 599 00:51:40,297 --> 00:51:43,130 We won't say he didn't do some good things. 600 00:51:45,035 --> 00:51:47,162 But the other things... 601 00:51:48,405 --> 00:51:51,238 the things they say he did to the Jews and the rest... 602 00:51:51,308 --> 00:51:53,401 we knew nothing about that. 603 00:51:53,643 --> 00:51:55,474 Very few Germans did. 604 00:51:57,647 --> 00:51:59,979 And if we did know... 605 00:52:01,718 --> 00:52:03,379 what could we do? 606 00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:06,818 But Mrs. Halbestadt said you didn't know. 607 00:52:12,429 --> 00:52:15,830 Mrs. Bertholt. How did she react to all this? 608 00:52:16,633 --> 00:52:20,364 Madame Bertholt is a very fine woman, Your Honor. 609 00:52:20,570 --> 00:52:23,266 I'm sure she is. What about her husband? 610 00:52:25,342 --> 00:52:27,071 He was in the army. 611 00:52:27,911 --> 00:52:29,708 What happened to him? 612 00:52:31,148 --> 00:52:35,312 He was one of the defendants in the Malmedy Case. 613 00:52:38,822 --> 00:52:42,451 General Bertholt. Karl Bertholt. 614 00:52:44,261 --> 00:52:46,388 He was executed, Your Honor. 615 00:52:48,798 --> 00:52:50,425 Yes, I know that. 616 00:52:54,671 --> 00:52:57,936 The document then states that the photographer, Rudolf Lenz... 617 00:52:58,008 --> 00:53:00,374 is requested to present himself within two weeks... 618 00:53:00,443 --> 00:53:03,139 at one the hospitals mentioned below... 619 00:53:03,547 --> 00:53:06,141 for medical treatment. 620 00:53:07,250 --> 00:53:10,742 Next, prosecution presents affidavit document no. 488... 621 00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:13,687 which concerns the seamstress, Anni Meunch. 622 00:53:13,757 --> 00:53:15,782 Document reads as follows: 623 00:53:15,992 --> 00:53:19,223 "District Court, Frankfurt am Main, has decided the following: 624 00:53:19,296 --> 00:53:22,060 "The seamstress, Anni Meunch, daughter of Wilhelm Meunch... 625 00:53:22,132 --> 00:53:23,724 "is to be sterilized. 626 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,860 "She is therefore requested to present herself within two weeks... 627 00:53:26,937 --> 00:53:29,428 "at one of the hospitals mentioned below. 628 00:53:29,506 --> 00:53:31,838 "If she does not take herself voluntarily... 629 00:53:31,908 --> 00:53:34,103 "she will be taken by force. " 630 00:53:35,212 --> 00:53:37,510 Next, document no. 449... 631 00:53:37,614 --> 00:53:40,811 interrogatories in the German and English text... 632 00:53:41,117 --> 00:53:43,551 concerning the farmer's helper, Meyer Eichinger. 633 00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:45,087 Your Honor... 634 00:53:48,892 --> 00:53:52,692 defense objects to introduction of these repetitive documents. 635 00:53:52,762 --> 00:53:55,526 According to the ruling of the first tribunal... 636 00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:58,033 such documents are not even admissible... 637 00:53:58,101 --> 00:54:02,003 unless supported by independent evidence of their authenticity. 638 00:54:03,406 --> 00:54:05,169 Objection sustained. 639 00:54:06,576 --> 00:54:09,909 Your Honor, may I ask the defense a question? 640 00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:11,038 Yes. 641 00:54:11,381 --> 00:54:15,647 Would evidence on sterilization be admissible if there were a witness? 642 00:54:26,029 --> 00:54:27,860 - Yes. - Thank you. 643 00:54:29,165 --> 00:54:32,259 Prosecution calls the witness, Rudolph Petersen. 644 00:54:56,793 --> 00:54:59,091 Will you raise your right hand? 645 00:54:59,462 --> 00:55:01,396 I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient... 646 00:55:01,464 --> 00:55:05,332 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 647 00:55:05,402 --> 00:55:06,767 I do. 648 00:55:23,887 --> 00:55:28,153 Will you please tell the court your full name and place of residence? 649 00:55:28,992 --> 00:55:33,122 Rudolph Petersen. Frankfurt am Main, Gratweg Nummer 7. 650 00:55:34,464 --> 00:55:36,932 When were you born, Mr. Petersen? 651 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,491 May 20, 1914. 652 00:55:40,270 --> 00:55:42,397 And what is your occupation? 653 00:55:43,106 --> 00:55:45,700 I'm a baker's helper. 654 00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:49,706 Are your parents living? 655 00:55:50,413 --> 00:55:51,437 No. 656 00:55:52,482 --> 00:55:55,076 What were the causes of their deaths? 657 00:55:59,322 --> 00:56:02,758 Mr. Petersen, did they die of natural causes? 658 00:56:03,259 --> 00:56:05,284 Yeah, natural. 659 00:56:09,132 --> 00:56:12,568 What political party did your father belong to? 660 00:56:12,635 --> 00:56:15,763 The Communist Party. 661 00:56:19,542 --> 00:56:21,737 Now think back. 662 00:56:21,878 --> 00:56:24,574 Do you remember anything unusual... 663 00:56:24,748 --> 00:56:27,842 that happened to you and your family in 1933... 664 00:56:28,585 --> 00:56:30,883 before the Nazis came to power? 665 00:56:31,721 --> 00:56:34,246 I mean, anything of a violent nature. 666 00:56:35,692 --> 00:56:36,818 Yeah. 667 00:56:37,827 --> 00:56:39,920 How old were you at the time? 668 00:56:39,996 --> 00:56:41,258 Nineteen. 669 00:56:42,098 --> 00:56:45,090 Would you please tell the court what happened? 670 00:56:49,172 --> 00:56:52,938 Some SA men broke into our house... 671 00:56:55,378 --> 00:56:58,245 and they broke the windows and the door... 672 00:56:59,015 --> 00:57:01,176 and they called us traitors... 673 00:57:02,152 --> 00:57:06,953 and they tried to beat up my father. 674 00:57:07,991 --> 00:57:09,891 What happened then? 675 00:57:10,126 --> 00:57:13,323 My brothers and I, we went to help him. 676 00:57:14,531 --> 00:57:16,931 And there was a fight... 677 00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:21,127 and finally we got them outside in the street... 678 00:57:21,204 --> 00:57:23,001 and we beat them up... 679 00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,531 and turned them over to the police. 680 00:57:27,477 --> 00:57:30,002 Did the police do anything about it? 681 00:57:30,146 --> 00:57:31,636 - No. - Why not? 682 00:57:32,215 --> 00:57:33,682 It was then... 683 00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:37,584 at the time of the national elections. 684 00:57:38,455 --> 00:57:41,447 You mean the time the National Socialists came to power? 685 00:57:41,524 --> 00:57:42,513 Yeah. 686 00:57:45,295 --> 00:57:48,594 What happened after 1933... 687 00:57:49,299 --> 00:57:51,563 after the Nazis came to power? 688 00:57:52,235 --> 00:57:54,726 I got a job on a farm... 689 00:57:55,505 --> 00:57:59,737 but for the work, to drive a truck was necessary. 690 00:58:00,777 --> 00:58:05,043 I went to the city building to apply for a license. 691 00:58:05,448 --> 00:58:07,416 And what happened there? 692 00:58:08,084 --> 00:58:10,848 They took me to an official. 693 00:58:12,822 --> 00:58:16,417 Did you ever have any dealings with this official before? 694 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,794 He was one of the men... 695 00:58:21,297 --> 00:58:23,857 who broke into our house that night. 696 00:58:24,100 --> 00:58:26,625 What did he say to your application? 697 00:58:28,037 --> 00:58:31,598 He said an examination there would have to be. 698 00:58:32,609 --> 00:58:35,339 Where was the examination to take place? 699 00:58:35,845 --> 00:58:38,473 In the district court of Stuttgart. 700 00:58:39,716 --> 00:58:42,549 Who was the presiding justice in the court? 701 00:58:46,222 --> 00:58:47,985 Justice Hoffstetter. 702 00:58:50,193 --> 00:58:52,684 What happened in the courtroom? 703 00:58:53,830 --> 00:58:57,425 They asked me my full name... 704 00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:59,559 and so forth. 705 00:59:00,236 --> 00:59:02,363 What else did they ask you? 706 00:59:03,406 --> 00:59:08,070 They asked me when Adolf Hitler and Dr. Goebbels were born. 707 00:59:09,479 --> 00:59:11,208 What did you reply? 708 00:59:12,115 --> 00:59:17,075 I told them I didn't know, and also that I didn't care. 709 00:59:23,459 --> 00:59:26,223 Did they ask you any more questions? 710 00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:31,091 No. They told me that I would be hearing from them in ten days. 711 00:59:31,901 --> 00:59:34,927 I see. Now, Mr. Petersen... 712 00:59:36,940 --> 00:59:39,408 I'd like you to look at something. 713 00:59:52,355 --> 00:59:54,118 Do you recognize it? 714 00:59:54,691 --> 00:59:55,715 Yeah. 715 00:59:55,792 --> 00:59:58,590 Would you please read it for the tribunal? 716 01:00:00,897 --> 01:00:03,923 "District Court of Stuttgart. 717 01:00:04,968 --> 01:00:08,870 "The baker, Rudolph Petersen, born May 20, 1914... 718 01:00:09,606 --> 01:00:13,440 "son of railway employee, Hans Petersen... 719 01:00:17,647 --> 01:00:19,478 "is to be sterilized. " 720 01:00:20,550 --> 01:00:23,212 Now would you read the last paragraph? 721 01:00:27,957 --> 01:00:31,085 "It is therefore requested... 722 01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,391 "he present himself within two weeks... 723 01:00:34,797 --> 01:00:37,789 "to one of the hospitals mentioned below. 724 01:00:39,135 --> 01:00:41,296 "If he does not... 725 01:00:42,505 --> 01:00:45,633 "betake himself voluntarily... 726 01:00:48,144 --> 01:00:50,305 "he will be taken by force. " 727 01:00:54,584 --> 01:00:57,485 Please read the signature at the bottom. 728 01:01:00,556 --> 01:01:03,389 "Presiding Justice Hoffstetter. " 729 01:01:07,463 --> 01:01:10,728 Would you read what is written below the signature? 730 01:01:11,668 --> 01:01:13,158 - Below? - Below. 731 01:01:14,871 --> 01:01:17,431 "By authority of... 732 01:01:18,541 --> 01:01:20,509 "Ernst Janning... 733 01:01:21,944 --> 01:01:23,844 "Minister of Justice. " 734 01:01:27,083 --> 01:01:28,573 Your Honor... 735 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,289 may the defense see the file of Mr. Petersen? 736 01:01:35,892 --> 01:01:39,623 What did you do after you received the letter, Mr. Petersen? 737 01:01:39,729 --> 01:01:41,094 I ran away. 738 01:01:41,297 --> 01:01:44,494 I stayed at the farm of a friend I have. 739 01:01:45,234 --> 01:01:46,963 And did you return? 740 01:01:48,337 --> 01:01:50,464 - Did I what? - Did you return? 741 01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,932 Yes. 742 01:01:52,408 --> 01:01:54,308 And what happened then? 743 01:01:55,645 --> 01:01:57,237 The police came. 744 01:01:59,949 --> 01:02:01,917 Where did they take you? 745 01:02:03,820 --> 01:02:05,412 To the hospital. 746 01:02:06,622 --> 01:02:08,817 Mr. Petersen, excuse me. 747 01:02:08,891 --> 01:02:12,224 I wonder if you could speak a little louder, please. 748 01:02:13,096 --> 01:02:14,688 To the hospital. 749 01:02:15,231 --> 01:02:17,665 And what happened at the hospital? 750 01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,529 They kept me there. 751 01:02:20,303 --> 01:02:23,238 The nurse who was... 752 01:02:25,441 --> 01:02:27,466 Well, she came in, anyway. 753 01:02:27,944 --> 01:02:30,674 She was to prepare me for the operation. 754 01:02:30,913 --> 01:02:35,441 And she said she thought the whole thing was terrible. 755 01:02:38,654 --> 01:02:42,954 Then the doctor came in who was supposed to do the... 756 01:02:45,128 --> 01:02:48,461 And he said he thought it was awful. 757 01:02:50,399 --> 01:02:53,391 Were you, in fact, sterilized? 758 01:03:02,512 --> 01:03:04,946 Thank you very much, Mr. Petersen. 759 01:03:06,482 --> 01:03:07,881 That's all. 760 01:03:10,086 --> 01:03:11,485 Herr Rolfe? 761 01:03:22,098 --> 01:03:23,656 Mr. Petersen... 762 01:03:25,735 --> 01:03:29,193 you may take your earphones off now, if you want to. 763 01:03:37,814 --> 01:03:41,511 You say you work as a baker's helper? Is that correct? 764 01:03:41,584 --> 01:03:43,245 Yes, that is right. 765 01:03:45,221 --> 01:03:47,781 What other occupations have you held? 766 01:03:47,857 --> 01:03:50,087 I have worked for my father. 767 01:03:51,294 --> 01:03:53,262 What did your father do? 768 01:03:53,930 --> 01:03:55,921 He was a railroad worker. 769 01:03:56,332 --> 01:03:58,596 Yes, but what did he do? 770 01:03:59,402 --> 01:04:04,135 He would raise and lower the barrier... 771 01:04:05,474 --> 01:04:08,034 at the crossing, for traffic. 772 01:04:11,747 --> 01:04:16,377 And you spoke about your brothers. How many brothers do you have? 773 01:04:17,486 --> 01:04:18,578 Five. 774 01:04:18,921 --> 01:04:20,320 And sisters? 775 01:04:20,723 --> 01:04:21,815 Four. 776 01:04:21,924 --> 01:04:24,415 - Then you are a family of ten? - Yes. 777 01:04:27,129 --> 01:04:29,825 What occupations do your brothers have? 778 01:04:30,233 --> 01:04:31,495 Laborers. 779 01:04:32,702 --> 01:04:35,637 All laborers? I see. 780 01:04:39,141 --> 01:04:42,269 You said the court at Stuttgart asked you two questions: 781 01:04:42,345 --> 01:04:45,906 The birth dates of Hitler and Dr. Goebbels. Is that correct? 782 01:04:45,982 --> 01:04:47,449 Yes, correct. 783 01:04:47,783 --> 01:04:49,876 What else did they ask you? 784 01:04:52,588 --> 01:04:54,055 Nothing else. 785 01:04:55,458 --> 01:04:56,925 Are you sure? 786 01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,688 Are you sure there were no questions about your schooling? 787 01:05:00,763 --> 01:05:02,094 Objection! 788 01:05:02,965 --> 01:05:06,423 The witness has already answered that question. 789 01:05:10,139 --> 01:05:11,902 Objection sustained. 790 01:05:17,246 --> 01:05:18,838 May I ask you... 791 01:05:29,558 --> 01:05:31,958 how long did you attend school? 792 01:05:32,328 --> 01:05:33,522 Six years. 793 01:05:33,596 --> 01:05:36,064 Six years? Why not longer? 794 01:05:38,034 --> 01:05:39,797 I had to go to work. 795 01:05:40,469 --> 01:05:44,166 Would you consider yourself a very bright fellow at school? 796 01:05:45,508 --> 01:05:47,271 School? 797 01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:51,140 It was a long while ago. I don't... 798 01:05:52,515 --> 01:05:55,643 Perhaps you were not able to keep up with the others... 799 01:05:55,718 --> 01:05:57,948 and that's why you did not continue? 800 01:05:58,020 --> 01:05:59,885 Objection, Your Honor. 801 01:06:00,289 --> 01:06:03,725 The witness' school record has nothing to do with what happened to him. 802 01:06:03,793 --> 01:06:08,287 It was the task of the Health Court to sterilize the mentally incompetent. 803 01:06:12,401 --> 01:06:14,198 Objection overruled. 804 01:06:20,443 --> 01:06:24,209 Were you able, or were you not able... 805 01:06:25,014 --> 01:06:27,141 to keep up with the others? 806 01:06:32,655 --> 01:06:37,149 I would like to refer to the efficiency report made at the school about Mr. Petersen. 807 01:06:37,226 --> 01:06:41,629 He failed to be promoted, and was placed in a class of backward children. 808 01:06:46,469 --> 01:06:49,927 You say your parents died of natural causes. 809 01:06:50,373 --> 01:06:51,431 Yes. 810 01:06:51,807 --> 01:06:55,538 Would you describe in detail the illness your mother died of? 811 01:06:55,611 --> 01:06:57,476 She died of her heart. 812 01:06:58,647 --> 01:07:01,275 In the last stages of her illness, did your mother... 813 01:07:01,350 --> 01:07:05,719 show any mental peculiarities? 814 01:07:07,857 --> 01:07:09,449 No. 815 01:07:11,093 --> 01:07:13,391 In the decision that came down from Stuttgart... 816 01:07:13,462 --> 01:07:17,193 it is stated that your mother suffered from hereditary feeble-mindedness. 817 01:07:19,135 --> 01:07:21,365 That is not true! 818 01:07:23,472 --> 01:07:25,167 Can you give us some clarification... 819 01:07:25,241 --> 01:07:29,871 as to how the Hereditary Health Court in Stuttgart arrived at that decision? 820 01:07:30,146 --> 01:07:35,106 It was just something they said to put me on the operating table. 821 01:07:35,284 --> 01:07:37,878 - It was just something they said? - Yes. 822 01:07:38,721 --> 01:07:42,748 Mr. Petersen, there was a simple test... 823 01:07:43,959 --> 01:07:48,259 that the Health Court used to ask in all cases of mental incompetence. 824 01:07:48,731 --> 01:07:51,427 Since you say they did not ask you then... 825 01:07:51,901 --> 01:07:54,597 perhaps you can answer it for us now. 826 01:07:54,770 --> 01:07:58,536 Form a sentence out of the words "Hare," "Hunter," "Field. " 827 01:07:58,607 --> 01:08:00,472 Your Honor, objection. 828 01:08:09,151 --> 01:08:13,417 Was the court in Stuttgart constituted like this one? 829 01:08:14,857 --> 01:08:17,348 I don't understand what... 830 01:08:17,860 --> 01:08:19,725 Was there an audience? 831 01:08:20,830 --> 01:08:22,525 An audience? Yes. 832 01:08:23,833 --> 01:08:25,198 Thank you. 833 01:08:28,370 --> 01:08:30,133 Objection overruled. 834 01:08:32,241 --> 01:08:36,735 "Hare," "Hunter," "Field. " 835 01:08:40,783 --> 01:08:42,341 Take your time. 836 01:08:56,699 --> 01:08:59,361 They had already made up... 837 01:09:00,436 --> 01:09:03,963 When I walked into the court, they had made up their minds. 838 01:09:07,009 --> 01:09:10,376 They put me in the hospital, like a criminal. 839 01:09:10,446 --> 01:09:13,677 I could not say anything. I could not do anything. 840 01:09:16,752 --> 01:09:18,515 I had to lay there. 841 01:09:21,323 --> 01:09:23,757 My mother... 842 01:09:25,394 --> 01:09:27,328 what you say about her... 843 01:09:27,396 --> 01:09:31,355 She was a woman, a servant woman who worked hard. 844 01:09:31,433 --> 01:09:33,367 She was a hardworking woman... 845 01:09:33,435 --> 01:09:36,996 and it is not fair what you say. 846 01:09:43,112 --> 01:09:44,204 Here. 847 01:09:46,348 --> 01:09:50,444 I want to show you. I have here her picture. 848 01:09:51,453 --> 01:09:53,751 I would like you to look at it. 849 01:10:05,434 --> 01:10:07,732 I would like you to judge. 850 01:10:09,672 --> 01:10:13,699 I want that you tell me... 851 01:10:14,176 --> 01:10:16,736 was she feeble-minded? 852 01:10:18,247 --> 01:10:19,874 My mother! 853 01:10:21,650 --> 01:10:23,550 Was she feeble-minded? 854 01:10:26,589 --> 01:10:27,851 Was she? 855 01:10:38,167 --> 01:10:41,500 I feel it is my duty to point out to the tribunal... 856 01:10:42,438 --> 01:10:46,135 that the witness is not in control of his mental processes. 857 01:10:46,809 --> 01:10:50,575 I know I am not. Since that day. 858 01:10:52,081 --> 01:10:55,778 I've been half I've ever been. 859 01:11:03,559 --> 01:11:06,619 The tribunal does not know how you were before. 860 01:11:07,696 --> 01:11:09,391 It can never know. 861 01:11:10,933 --> 01:11:12,833 It has only your word. 862 01:11:34,223 --> 01:11:35,952 Court is adjourned. 863 01:11:48,537 --> 01:11:51,131 That's one problem we have with the prosecution. 864 01:11:51,206 --> 01:11:54,107 It's filled with young radicals like Lawson. 865 01:11:54,476 --> 01:11:56,876 Is that what Lawson is? A young radical? 866 01:11:56,945 --> 01:11:59,709 He was a personal prot�g� of FDR. 867 01:12:00,015 --> 01:12:03,246 FDR had a few friends who weren't radicals, didn't he? 868 01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:04,581 Name one. 869 01:12:05,921 --> 01:12:07,548 Wendell Wilkie. 870 01:12:08,824 --> 01:12:11,292 Is he your idea of a conservative? 871 01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,760 As a matter of fact, Dan, I've been wondering how you stand. 872 01:12:16,165 --> 01:12:20,568 I'll clarify that for you, Curtiss. I'm a rock-ribbed Republican... 873 01:12:20,736 --> 01:12:24,035 who thought that Franklin Roosevelt was a great man. 874 01:12:24,907 --> 01:12:26,397 One of those? 875 01:12:29,578 --> 01:12:30,670 Max! 876 01:12:31,513 --> 01:12:34,448 - Max Perkins. You know him? - No, I don't think so. 877 01:12:34,516 --> 01:12:36,643 He's with the United Press. 878 01:12:40,522 --> 01:12:42,319 Max, what are you doing here? 879 01:12:42,391 --> 01:12:44,586 I thought you might kick up a row or something. 880 01:12:44,660 --> 01:12:47,060 I haven't had that much to drink. 881 01:12:47,429 --> 01:12:49,488 - I'm sorry, this is Judge Ives. - Hello. 882 01:12:49,565 --> 01:12:51,658 - Mrs. Ives. - How do you do? 883 01:12:51,734 --> 01:12:53,827 - How do you do? - Judge Haywood, Mrs. Bertholt. 884 01:12:53,902 --> 01:12:56,029 - We have met. - Yes, we have. 885 01:12:56,372 --> 01:12:58,431 Won't you join us for a drink? 886 01:12:58,507 --> 01:13:00,304 We would like to very much. 887 01:13:00,376 --> 01:13:02,867 - Max, will you sit here? - Thank you. 888 01:13:03,212 --> 01:13:07,444 Incidentally, Max, I admired your article on Mrs. Bertholt very much. 889 01:13:07,516 --> 01:13:09,108 It was straight reporting. 890 01:13:09,184 --> 01:13:11,709 Her defense of her husband was quite eloquent. 891 01:13:11,787 --> 01:13:14,688 Are you going to do a story on these trials? 892 01:13:14,757 --> 01:13:16,850 I'll tell you something frankly, Judge. 893 01:13:16,925 --> 01:13:20,827 At the moment, I couldn't give a story away on the Nuremberg Trials. 894 01:13:20,896 --> 01:13:22,488 What do you mean, Mr. Perkins? 895 01:13:22,564 --> 01:13:25,055 The American public just isn't interested anymore. 896 01:13:25,134 --> 01:13:28,399 But the war's only been over two years, Mr. Perkins. 897 01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:29,903 That's right. 898 01:13:29,972 --> 01:13:32,941 - May I take your order? - Yes. See what the ladies will have. 899 01:13:33,008 --> 01:13:34,270 How about some more beer, Dan? 900 01:13:34,343 --> 01:13:38,712 No. I think I've had my fill of beer. I'd like to try something else, if I may. 901 01:13:38,781 --> 01:13:43,184 Why don't you try some Sonnenberg, or Schwalbenwinkel? It's the local wine. 902 01:13:43,252 --> 01:13:46,085 - Sonnenberg or... - Schwalbenwinkel. 903 01:13:46,388 --> 01:13:49,789 Yes, I think I'd like that. Some Schweissenwinkel. 904 01:13:50,325 --> 01:13:53,260 - Will you have some? - Yes, thank you. I'll have the same. 905 01:13:53,328 --> 01:13:55,660 - Should we stay with the beer, Max? - Fine. 906 01:13:55,731 --> 01:13:57,494 Thank you. 907 01:13:57,566 --> 01:14:00,933 - You got home all right the other night? - Yes, thank you. 908 01:14:01,003 --> 01:14:04,336 I don't know what I would have done without the car. 909 01:14:04,940 --> 01:14:07,807 You speak English very well, Mrs. Bertholt. 910 01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:11,539 Thank you. My husband and I spent three years in America. 911 01:14:15,217 --> 01:14:18,414 I hope you had a chance to see something of Nuremberg. 912 01:14:19,421 --> 01:14:24,324 I'm afraid mainly the road between my house and the Palace of Justice. 913 01:14:24,827 --> 01:14:29,389 And then some places that have to do with the case, the historical aspects. 914 01:14:29,598 --> 01:14:31,225 The Nazi aspects. 915 01:14:31,900 --> 01:14:34,494 You should see some of the other parts of Nuremberg. 916 01:14:34,570 --> 01:14:37,562 There are many beautiful things to see in the old part of town. 917 01:14:37,639 --> 01:14:39,869 Museums we're trying to rebuild. 918 01:14:39,942 --> 01:14:44,311 And there's a concert, a piano concert next week at the old opera house. 919 01:14:44,379 --> 01:14:48,611 Arthur Reiss. He was a refugee from Hitler in the early days. 920 01:14:49,418 --> 01:14:51,045 We've persuaded him to come back. 921 01:14:51,119 --> 01:14:54,646 It ought to be quite an evening. Would you like to come? 922 01:14:54,990 --> 01:14:56,514 Yes, I would. 923 01:14:57,359 --> 01:15:01,318 I'll tell them to leave a ticket for you at the box office. I'm on the committee. 924 01:15:01,396 --> 01:15:04,229 - Thank you very much, Mrs. Bertholt. - It's nothing. 925 01:15:04,299 --> 01:15:08,258 You see, I have a mission with the Americans, as Mr. Perkins can tell you. 926 01:15:08,337 --> 01:15:09,964 What is that? 927 01:15:10,906 --> 01:15:13,841 To convince you that we're not all monsters. 928 01:15:17,813 --> 01:15:19,474 - Good evening, Colonel. - Good evening. 929 01:15:19,548 --> 01:15:21,482 Colonel. Maj. Radnitz. 930 01:15:21,717 --> 01:15:23,844 Good evening, Mrs. Bertholt. 931 01:15:27,122 --> 01:15:28,521 I hope you'll excuse me. 932 01:15:28,590 --> 01:15:29,955 But you've just come... 933 01:15:30,025 --> 01:15:33,392 No, I must go. Please excuse me. It was awfully nice meeting you. 934 01:15:33,462 --> 01:15:37,296 If you want to hear the concert, there'll be a ticket for you at the box office. 935 01:15:37,366 --> 01:15:39,095 - Thank you. - Good night. 936 01:15:39,167 --> 01:15:41,635 - Good night. - Good night, Mrs. Bertholt. 937 01:15:47,809 --> 01:15:52,246 Mrs. Bertholt doesn't hold a burning passion for me. 938 01:15:53,482 --> 01:15:55,712 I prosecuted her husband. 939 01:15:57,519 --> 01:16:00,044 There are many people who think a death sentence... 940 01:16:00,122 --> 01:16:02,955 would not have been passed against Gen. Bertholt today. 941 01:16:03,025 --> 01:16:04,890 I'm sure there are. 942 01:16:05,494 --> 01:16:07,519 I'm sure there are people who think... 943 01:16:07,596 --> 01:16:10,963 all the prisoners in Nuremberg should be free today. 944 01:16:11,033 --> 01:16:12,796 All of them. Let... 945 01:16:14,169 --> 01:16:15,864 Excuse me. 946 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,167 I've had one or two too many... 947 01:16:20,242 --> 01:16:23,177 as might be painfully obvious to you gentlemen. 948 01:16:23,579 --> 01:16:28,175 The spectacle this afternoon with Mr. Petersen put me off my feed. I'm sorry. 949 01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:32,380 Three beers and Schwalbenwinkel, please. 950 01:16:38,994 --> 01:16:40,359 Schwalbenwinkel. 951 01:16:42,764 --> 01:16:46,325 It's good beer. They make it good in this country. 952 01:16:49,204 --> 01:16:52,503 You know, there's one thing about Americans. 953 01:16:53,642 --> 01:16:56,076 We're not cut out to be occupiers. 954 01:16:56,211 --> 01:16:59,146 We're new at it. We're not very good at it. 955 01:16:59,348 --> 01:17:02,215 We come over here, and what do we see? 956 01:17:03,218 --> 01:17:05,550 We see this beautiful country. 957 01:17:05,754 --> 01:17:08,348 It is beautiful. It's very beautiful. 958 01:17:08,890 --> 01:17:12,155 We see the culture that goes back for hundreds of years. 959 01:17:12,227 --> 01:17:14,559 We see its gem�tlich charm... 960 01:17:15,163 --> 01:17:18,724 and the charm of people like Mrs. Bertholt. 961 01:17:20,135 --> 01:17:23,036 We've got a built-in inferiority complex. 962 01:17:23,105 --> 01:17:25,232 We forgive and forget easy. 963 01:17:25,874 --> 01:17:28,069 We give the other guy the benefit of the doubt. 964 01:17:28,143 --> 01:17:30,111 That's the American way. 965 01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,811 We beat the greatest war machine since Alexander the Great. 966 01:17:37,285 --> 01:17:39,685 And now the boy scouts take over. 967 01:17:41,223 --> 01:17:44,818 The trouble with you, Colonel, is you'd like to indict the whole country. 968 01:17:44,893 --> 01:17:47,953 That might be emotionally satisfying to you... 969 01:17:48,030 --> 01:17:51,466 but it wouldn't be exactly practical, and hardly fair. 970 01:17:52,467 --> 01:17:53,866 Hardly fair? 971 01:17:57,172 --> 01:17:58,400 "Hare. " 972 01:17:59,474 --> 01:18:00,771 "Hunter. " 973 01:18:02,110 --> 01:18:03,372 "Field. " 974 01:18:04,980 --> 01:18:07,141 That's right, let's be fair. 975 01:18:08,116 --> 01:18:11,176 "The hare was shot by the hunter in the field. " 976 01:18:11,953 --> 01:18:13,944 It's really quite simple. 977 01:18:17,292 --> 01:18:20,420 Colonel, I think we ought to be going. 978 01:18:21,129 --> 01:18:23,563 Yes, we really shouldn't be discussing this. 979 01:18:23,632 --> 01:18:27,295 No, Judge. We're fair Americans, and true-blue. 980 01:18:27,369 --> 01:18:29,303 We mustn't do anything that's out of order. 981 01:18:29,371 --> 01:18:32,568 No, sir. We can't do anything that's out of order. 982 01:18:36,278 --> 01:18:39,975 There are no Nazis in Germany. Didn't you know that, Judge? 983 01:18:40,782 --> 01:18:43,842 The Eskimos invaded Germany and took over. 984 01:18:43,919 --> 01:18:46,547 That's how all those terrible things happened. 985 01:18:46,621 --> 01:18:51,217 It wasn't the fault of the Germans. It was the fault of those damn Eskimos. 986 01:18:53,795 --> 01:18:55,160 Excuse me. 987 01:18:56,698 --> 01:18:59,030 - Good night, Colonel. - Good night. 988 01:19:13,648 --> 01:19:17,084 Can I have your attention, please? I'm sorry to interrupt your dancing. 989 01:19:17,152 --> 01:19:20,986 The following officers are requested to report to their units. 990 01:19:21,256 --> 01:19:26,125 Maj. McCarthy, Maj. Citron, Maj. Cantor, Capt. Byers... 991 01:19:26,461 --> 01:19:29,988 Capt. Connell, Capt. Douglas, Capt. Wolfe... 992 01:19:30,365 --> 01:19:32,833 Maj. Booth, and Maj. Rice. 993 01:19:33,568 --> 01:19:36,128 Thank you. You can continue dancing. 994 01:19:39,407 --> 01:19:41,102 Harry, what is it? 995 01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,177 The Russians have made their move in Czechoslovakia. 996 01:19:44,246 --> 01:19:47,340 It's rumored Masaryk committed suicide. We're sending units up. 997 01:19:47,415 --> 01:19:49,474 What do you think's going to happen? 998 01:19:49,551 --> 01:19:51,018 I don't know. 999 01:19:54,556 --> 01:19:56,148 Judge Haywood... 1000 01:19:58,260 --> 01:19:59,818 Elsa Scheffler. 1001 01:20:08,537 --> 01:20:10,801 "President Truman responded to the crisis... 1002 01:20:10,872 --> 01:20:13,500 "by calling for an extension of military training. 1003 01:20:13,675 --> 01:20:18,374 "He stated that he is deeply concerned with the survival of the Western nations... 1004 01:20:18,446 --> 01:20:21,074 "in face of the threat from the East. " 1005 01:20:21,449 --> 01:20:23,280 "Threat from the East. " 1006 01:20:23,418 --> 01:20:25,477 Herr Janning, did you hear this? 1007 01:20:25,554 --> 01:20:29,251 Did you hear what's in the paper? Exactly what Hitler said. 1008 01:20:29,324 --> 01:20:32,054 "The clash for survival between East and West. " 1009 01:20:32,127 --> 01:20:33,788 He knew! 1010 01:20:34,362 --> 01:20:38,230 They'll see that we knew exactly what we were doing all the time. 1011 01:20:38,300 --> 01:20:42,634 They cannot call us criminals, and at the same time ask us to help them. 1012 01:20:42,704 --> 01:20:44,467 We must stand together now. 1013 01:20:44,539 --> 01:20:47,303 The most crucial part of this case is coming up. 1014 01:20:47,876 --> 01:20:50,777 We have fallen on happy times, Herr Hahn. 1015 01:20:50,846 --> 01:20:55,408 In old times it would have made your day if I'd deigned to say good morning to you. 1016 01:20:55,483 --> 01:20:58,179 Now that we are here in this place together... 1017 01:20:58,253 --> 01:21:01,552 you feel obliged to tell me what to do with my life. 1018 01:21:01,756 --> 01:21:03,724 Herr Janning, you must stand with us. 1019 01:21:03,792 --> 01:21:06,090 It is not good for Germans to turn on one another. 1020 01:21:06,161 --> 01:21:08,322 We have a common ground now. 1021 01:21:09,898 --> 01:21:11,763 Listen to me, Herr Hahn. 1022 01:21:11,833 --> 01:21:14,996 There have been terrible things that have happened to me in my life. 1023 01:21:15,070 --> 01:21:17,038 But the worst thing that has ever happened... 1024 01:21:17,105 --> 01:21:20,199 is to find myself in the company of men like you. 1025 01:21:20,275 --> 01:21:23,039 I have nothing in common with you and Party hacks like you. 1026 01:21:23,111 --> 01:21:26,569 You have something in common. You were part of that same regime. 1027 01:21:26,648 --> 01:21:29,014 You stood by that regime, the same as the rest of us. 1028 01:21:29,084 --> 01:21:32,110 And there's something else you have in common. 1029 01:21:32,554 --> 01:21:34,181 You are a German. 1030 01:23:07,882 --> 01:23:09,349 Good evening. Did you like it? 1031 01:23:09,417 --> 01:23:12,215 Yes, I did. Very much indeed. 1032 01:23:12,387 --> 01:23:13,376 Can I drop you? 1033 01:23:13,455 --> 01:23:16,982 I only live a few blocks from here. I was going to walk. 1034 01:23:17,192 --> 01:23:18,921 Would you like to go for a walk? 1035 01:23:19,060 --> 01:23:20,186 Yes, I would. 1036 01:23:20,261 --> 01:23:22,957 I won't need the car now. I'll walk with Mrs. Bertholt. 1037 01:23:23,031 --> 01:23:25,864 - Shall I wait for you, Your Honor? - That won't be necessary. 1038 01:23:25,934 --> 01:23:28,198 I'll wait for you, Your Honor. 1039 01:24:03,972 --> 01:24:07,703 The German people love to sing, no matter what the situation. 1040 01:24:07,876 --> 01:24:09,537 I've noticed that. 1041 01:24:10,779 --> 01:24:14,806 Do American people sing in bars, too? I have forgotten. 1042 01:24:15,884 --> 01:24:18,717 No. We're apt to be pretty sullen in bars. 1043 01:24:30,698 --> 01:24:32,893 I wish you understood German. 1044 01:24:33,802 --> 01:24:36,100 The words are very beautiful. 1045 01:24:36,304 --> 01:24:37,566 Very sad. 1046 01:24:38,239 --> 01:24:40,707 Much sadder than the English words. 1047 01:24:41,676 --> 01:24:45,112 The German soldier knows he's going to lose his girl... 1048 01:24:46,648 --> 01:24:47,876 and his life. 1049 01:24:50,885 --> 01:24:52,682 The lantern burns every night. 1050 01:24:52,754 --> 01:24:54,551 It knows the steps... 1051 01:24:55,623 --> 01:24:56,954 and the way you walk. 1052 01:24:58,726 --> 01:25:02,059 It burns every night, but I've been long forgotten.