1 00:00:03,148 --> 00:00:06,150 It went straight... straight through under my arm, 2 00:00:06,151 --> 00:00:07,526 into my chest, 3 00:00:07,527 --> 00:00:09,945 and I never went to the hospital or anything. 4 00:00:09,946 --> 00:00:12,364 - And what did you feel? You felt the... 5 00:00:12,365 --> 00:00:14,867 - Yeah, just a... I felt the... the... 6 00:00:14,868 --> 00:00:17,161 you know, the pressure of it when it hit. 7 00:00:17,162 --> 00:00:18,537 That's all I felt, 8 00:00:18,538 --> 00:00:20,247 and I kind of jumped back out the way, 9 00:00:20,248 --> 00:00:24,210 and... and I looked, and my buddy threw me a knife, 10 00:00:24,211 --> 00:00:26,086 and I looked down at the knife on the ground, 11 00:00:26,087 --> 00:00:27,463 and I was like, you know, 12 00:00:27,464 --> 00:00:29,465 I'm thinking to myself in my head, you know, 13 00:00:29,466 --> 00:00:31,800 "I'm going home to my kids today." 14 00:00:31,801 --> 00:00:33,636 You know, so I didn't even pick it up, 15 00:00:33,637 --> 00:00:37,056 and then my other buddy come out running by the yard, 16 00:00:37,057 --> 00:00:40,893 and I had to be at work in 30 minutes. 17 00:00:40,894 --> 00:00:43,270 Matter of fact, I roof... 18 00:00:43,271 --> 00:00:47,274 I was roofing a house with Jason's brother. 19 00:00:47,275 --> 00:00:49,777 What is it, Chris Burkett? 20 00:00:49,778 --> 00:00:51,278 And I was roofing a house with him. 21 00:00:51,279 --> 00:00:52,947 - Chris was not in jail at that time. 22 00:00:52,948 --> 00:00:54,740 - Nah. 23 00:00:54,741 --> 00:00:56,325 - And you went to hospital? 24 00:00:56,326 --> 00:00:57,952 - Nah. 25 00:00:57,953 --> 00:00:59,411 They was asking me 26 00:00:59,412 --> 00:01:01,288 if I needed to go to the hospital or anything, 27 00:01:01,289 --> 00:01:02,665 but it just... some, like, puss 28 00:01:02,666 --> 00:01:04,208 and a little bit of blood come out, 29 00:01:04,209 --> 00:01:07,044 and, you know, I thought I was good. 30 00:01:07,045 --> 00:01:09,171 Evidently, I guess I am. 31 00:01:09,172 --> 00:01:10,965 So I was lucky there. 32 00:01:17,055 --> 00:01:20,891 - But you have never been in... in real trouble with the law? 33 00:01:20,892 --> 00:01:22,268 - I had a felony. 34 00:01:22,269 --> 00:01:24,645 That's the only bad... bad one I had. 35 00:01:24,646 --> 00:01:26,021 - But you're a working man. 36 00:01:26,022 --> 00:01:27,398 - Yes, sir. - You have a job? 37 00:01:27,399 --> 00:01:29,275 - Yeah, I ain't been in trouble in four years. 38 00:01:29,276 --> 00:01:31,318 - Can I see your hands? - Yeah. 39 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,072 - When we shook hands, I noticed your calluses. 40 00:01:35,073 --> 00:01:37,074 You are working... - Yeah. 41 00:01:37,075 --> 00:01:39,076 - In a paint shop? - Yep. 42 00:01:39,077 --> 00:01:40,744 - Cars. - Yes, sir. 43 00:01:40,745 --> 00:01:42,746 - Solid work. - Yes, sir. 44 00:01:42,747 --> 00:01:44,331 - And the tattoo in here? 45 00:01:44,332 --> 00:01:47,084 Can I see this? Can you show it? 46 00:01:47,085 --> 00:01:50,087 - Bailey. 47 00:01:50,088 --> 00:01:52,214 - You had been with her when you met Burkett? 48 00:01:52,215 --> 00:01:53,674 - Nah. - Not yet, uh-huh. 49 00:01:53,675 --> 00:01:55,050 - No. 50 00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,177 I've been with her for three years, 51 00:01:57,178 --> 00:01:59,972 and I got a 17 month old baby with her. 52 00:01:59,973 --> 00:02:02,349 - Oh, yeah. So you are staying with her? 53 00:02:02,350 --> 00:02:04,143 - Yeah. 54 00:02:04,144 --> 00:02:05,686 - Now the tattoo is forever. 55 00:02:05,687 --> 00:02:07,521 - Yeah, it's forever. 56 00:02:07,522 --> 00:02:09,857 They just don't come off. 57 00:02:09,858 --> 00:02:14,445 - And what happens if the relationship unravels? 58 00:02:14,446 --> 00:02:16,405 What happens to "Bailey"? 59 00:02:16,406 --> 00:02:18,741 - Guess I'm gonna have to get "Bailey sucks" right there. 60 00:02:18,742 --> 00:02:20,701 (laughs) 61 00:02:29,044 --> 00:02:31,712 - Can you talk about Jason Burkett? 62 00:02:31,713 --> 00:02:34,048 How did you meet him? How did you know him? 63 00:02:34,049 --> 00:02:36,508 What do you know about him? 64 00:02:36,509 --> 00:02:38,385 - First time I ever met him, 65 00:02:38,386 --> 00:02:40,304 seemed like a pretty cool guy, you know? 66 00:02:40,305 --> 00:02:41,680 So we hung out, 67 00:02:41,681 --> 00:02:43,974 and I introduced him to a few girls and everything, 68 00:02:43,975 --> 00:02:47,728 and then we used to go huntin' together. 69 00:02:49,898 --> 00:02:52,816 One time, he tried to kill me. 70 00:02:52,817 --> 00:02:54,985 I introduced him to these girls, 71 00:02:54,986 --> 00:02:57,154 and her dad and him had something going on. 72 00:02:57,155 --> 00:02:58,530 I don't know. 73 00:02:58,531 --> 00:03:00,783 Well, anyway, he thought I wanted to get with that girl 74 00:03:00,784 --> 00:03:03,285 and come over to another girl's house 75 00:03:03,286 --> 00:03:05,287 and rushed me with a gun. 76 00:03:05,288 --> 00:03:07,331 Well, I had this girl tell me to come outside, 77 00:03:07,332 --> 00:03:09,083 and I was eating supper, 78 00:03:09,084 --> 00:03:11,168 and he rushed me with a gun. 79 00:03:11,169 --> 00:03:12,753 So we fought for about 45 minutes 80 00:03:12,754 --> 00:03:16,882 with a gun to my head in this girl's house. 81 00:03:16,883 --> 00:03:20,594 It was a .22 caliber single-shot pistol. 82 00:03:20,595 --> 00:03:23,597 Yeah, he held... held it to my head, 83 00:03:23,598 --> 00:03:26,600 banged me in the head with it. 84 00:03:26,601 --> 00:03:29,103 We were fighting all through the house with the gun 85 00:03:29,104 --> 00:03:31,814 till I locked myself in this bedroom, 86 00:03:31,815 --> 00:03:33,649 and he was gonna kick in the door, 87 00:03:33,650 --> 00:03:35,943 so I just opened the door and let him in 88 00:03:35,944 --> 00:03:38,779 because I didn't want him to tear this girl's dad's house up, 89 00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:41,365 and after that, we started fighting again, 90 00:03:41,366 --> 00:03:44,076 and he pinned me on the bed, and he pulled the trigger. 91 00:03:44,077 --> 00:03:45,661 - Where did the bullet go? 92 00:03:45,662 --> 00:03:48,163 - Nah, it misfired, 93 00:03:48,164 --> 00:03:49,790 because the bullet come out the gun, 94 00:03:49,791 --> 00:03:53,001 and you could tell on a 22 bullet, there's like... 95 00:03:53,002 --> 00:03:55,337 it's just that round, flat piece on the bottom. 96 00:03:55,338 --> 00:03:57,172 Well, if the firing pin ain't long enough, 97 00:03:57,173 --> 00:04:00,843 it don't hit it, and... and it don't... it won't go off, 98 00:04:00,844 --> 00:04:05,180 but it hit it, but I don't know why it didn't go off. 99 00:04:05,181 --> 00:04:07,057 - You were lucky. - Yeah. 100 00:04:07,058 --> 00:04:08,642 - Very lucky. 101 00:04:08,643 --> 00:04:10,144 - Yeah, I kind of blacked out there. 102 00:04:10,145 --> 00:04:11,603 (laughs) 103 00:04:11,604 --> 00:04:13,272 (spits) 104 00:04:13,273 --> 00:04:17,276 But, yeah, real lucky. 105 00:04:17,277 --> 00:04:19,778 And then him killing those people, man, 106 00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:21,780 I feel sorry for their families. 107 00:04:28,830 --> 00:04:32,040 Me and my friend Big Justin was up at the bar one time, 108 00:04:32,041 --> 00:04:36,086 and he come up there with these new cars, him and Perry, 109 00:04:36,087 --> 00:04:37,463 and we're like, "Man", 110 00:04:37,464 --> 00:04:39,214 where'd y'all get these new cars at?" 111 00:04:39,215 --> 00:04:40,966 He's like, "oh, we was holding hands"... 112 00:04:40,967 --> 00:04:42,342 him and Perry was holding hands 113 00:04:42,343 --> 00:04:45,429 and scratched off a lottery ticket together 114 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:47,556 and won them two cars. 115 00:04:47,557 --> 00:04:49,349 Well, me and my buddy knew it wasn't right, 116 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:51,518 because they're both felons, you know what I mean? 117 00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:52,895 Ain't nobody gonna sell them... 118 00:04:52,896 --> 00:04:54,897 ain't neither one got a driver's license, 119 00:04:54,898 --> 00:04:58,400 so, you know, and... and the cars were, like, fully loaded, 120 00:04:58,401 --> 00:05:02,070 CD's, skateboards, and stuff like that in there, 121 00:05:02,071 --> 00:05:05,991 and so we knew something... something was up with it, 122 00:05:05,992 --> 00:05:09,620 and he started giving people joy rides up at the bar. 123 00:05:15,251 --> 00:05:17,836 - Jason and Michael came up to the bar 124 00:05:17,837 --> 00:05:20,547 to show off two new vehicles that they had purchased, 125 00:05:20,548 --> 00:05:25,344 and at first, we... nobody really understood. 126 00:05:25,345 --> 00:05:28,096 They explained that they had purchased a lottery ticket, 127 00:05:28,097 --> 00:05:30,474 and that's how they got the money to buy the cars, 128 00:05:30,475 --> 00:05:34,436 and at that time, it started getting a little weird. 129 00:05:34,437 --> 00:05:37,773 - What didn't sound right about this? 130 00:05:37,774 --> 00:05:40,484 - The amount of the lottery ticket was $4,000. 131 00:05:40,485 --> 00:05:42,444 They said they cashed it in a gas station. 132 00:05:42,445 --> 00:05:45,489 That doesn't usually happen. 133 00:05:45,490 --> 00:05:47,324 The vehicles themselves didn't look like 134 00:05:47,325 --> 00:05:48,700 they just came off a car lot. 135 00:05:48,701 --> 00:05:50,077 - You drove these cars? 136 00:05:50,078 --> 00:05:51,912 - I rode in them. I didn't drive them. 137 00:05:51,913 --> 00:05:53,413 Yeah, they... Jason and Michael 138 00:05:53,414 --> 00:05:55,415 were kind of giving everybody test drives, 139 00:05:55,416 --> 00:05:59,086 and I rode in both vehicles. 140 00:06:01,965 --> 00:06:04,049 The... the red Camaro, when I rode in it, 141 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:06,510 they were showing off guns. 142 00:06:06,511 --> 00:06:07,928 There was a 12 gauge shotgun, 143 00:06:07,929 --> 00:06:09,513 and I don't remember the other one, 144 00:06:09,514 --> 00:06:13,183 but I did see 'em in the trunk of the red Camaro that night. 145 00:06:13,184 --> 00:06:16,728 From what I heard, rumors, you know, they were into... 146 00:06:16,729 --> 00:06:20,023 initially planning on stealing a car of my roommate 147 00:06:20,024 --> 00:06:21,400 at the house I was staying at, 148 00:06:21,401 --> 00:06:22,859 and that scared the hell out of me, 149 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:24,236 'cause that could've been me. 150 00:06:24,237 --> 00:06:25,946 You know, if he would've decided to come 151 00:06:25,947 --> 00:06:28,448 and get the car in my driveway, where would I be? 152 00:06:29,242 --> 00:06:31,702 I've... I've managed to block it. 153 00:06:31,703 --> 00:06:34,371 I've managed to try to not deal with it 154 00:06:34,372 --> 00:06:36,540 and not think about it. 155 00:06:41,296 --> 00:06:46,133 I guess being in the situations that I've been in, 156 00:06:46,134 --> 00:06:48,135 just from being employed at that bar, 157 00:06:48,136 --> 00:06:52,973 I have seen so many awful things that I don't deal with them. 158 00:06:52,974 --> 00:06:55,017 I just kind of put them back. 159 00:06:56,728 --> 00:06:59,271 - Did Jason brag about crimes? 160 00:06:59,272 --> 00:07:02,065 - He never bragged to me and my buddy Big Justin. 161 00:07:02,066 --> 00:07:03,734 We didn't even know what had happened, 162 00:07:03,735 --> 00:07:07,821 and they was... they come got us from Justin's house, 163 00:07:07,822 --> 00:07:10,157 the police did, and they took us up there, 164 00:07:10,158 --> 00:07:12,367 and they was like, "Y'all read the paper?" 165 00:07:12,368 --> 00:07:15,078 And I told 'em, well, I couldn't read, 166 00:07:15,079 --> 00:07:16,997 and then they didn't believe me, 167 00:07:16,998 --> 00:07:19,458 and they looked at my record and found out I can't read, 168 00:07:19,459 --> 00:07:22,294 and then, so they read the paper to me, 169 00:07:22,295 --> 00:07:24,921 and they told me what they had done. 170 00:07:24,922 --> 00:07:26,298 - Mm-hmm. 171 00:07:26,299 --> 00:07:27,674 Do you read now? 172 00:07:27,675 --> 00:07:29,217 - Oh, yeah. 173 00:07:29,218 --> 00:07:32,262 - So late, you started to learn how to read. 174 00:07:32,263 --> 00:07:33,764 - Yeah, I learned how to read. 175 00:07:33,765 --> 00:07:35,140 - Wonderful, yes? 176 00:07:35,141 --> 00:07:37,601 I find this a great achievement. 177 00:07:37,602 --> 00:07:40,562 - Yeah, it is awesome. 178 00:07:40,563 --> 00:07:42,522 - You are much more connected now. 179 00:07:42,523 --> 00:07:45,359 - Yeah. 180 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,903 - How does it feel not to be able to read? 181 00:07:47,904 --> 00:07:49,946 You have to be much smarter than the others 182 00:07:49,947 --> 00:07:51,365 to understand the world anyway. 183 00:07:51,366 --> 00:07:53,033 - Yeah. 184 00:07:53,034 --> 00:07:55,869 It's... it's kind of tough out there when you can't read, 185 00:07:55,870 --> 00:07:58,038 but, I mean, 'cause they ain't always have 186 00:07:58,039 --> 00:07:59,873 somebody gonna read it for you. 187 00:08:02,043 --> 00:08:05,337 But, I mean, I learned how to read in jail 188 00:08:05,338 --> 00:08:09,049 so I could write letters and read the letters, 189 00:08:09,050 --> 00:08:13,387 and other than that, I don't plan on going back, 190 00:08:13,388 --> 00:08:16,723 but I'm glad I learned how to read there. 191 00:08:16,724 --> 00:08:19,226 - And you are doing good now? - Oh, yeah. 192 00:08:19,227 --> 00:08:21,520 Staying busy at the paint and body shop. 193 00:08:21,521 --> 00:08:23,522 - Reading? - Oh, yeah. 194 00:08:23,523 --> 00:08:25,023 - Writing? 195 00:08:25,024 --> 00:08:27,109 - Not much writing. 196 00:08:27,110 --> 00:08:28,568 A lot of sanding. 197 00:08:28,569 --> 00:08:30,487 (laughs) 198 00:08:32,365 --> 00:08:36,451 - I'm interested in your relationship with Michael Perry. 199 00:08:36,452 --> 00:08:38,078 How did you two meet? 200 00:08:38,079 --> 00:08:39,705 How does this thing happen? 201 00:08:39,706 --> 00:08:45,377 - In 2000, I had a girlfriend in 2000. 202 00:08:45,378 --> 00:08:48,255 She had a friend named Miranda. 203 00:08:48,256 --> 00:08:49,923 I ended up going to jail, 204 00:08:49,924 --> 00:08:52,467 and Miranda, I seen her on the side of the road 205 00:08:52,468 --> 00:08:54,970 arguing with Michael Perry, and I said... 206 00:08:54,971 --> 00:08:56,930 I pulled over, and I asked her what was going on, 207 00:08:56,931 --> 00:08:58,598 and she said, "He's living in my trunk, 208 00:08:58,599 --> 00:08:59,975 "and I can't get him... 209 00:08:59,976 --> 00:09:01,643 "you know, he can't live there no more. 210 00:09:01,644 --> 00:09:03,019 "My dad's seen him. 211 00:09:03,020 --> 00:09:04,855 "My dad got in a fight with him this morning. 212 00:09:04,856 --> 00:09:06,231 He can't live there." 213 00:09:06,232 --> 00:09:07,774 So he was living in the trunk of a car, 214 00:09:07,775 --> 00:09:09,776 and I said, "Well, I don't know what to tell you." 215 00:09:09,777 --> 00:09:11,486 And she asked me, "Can he live with you?" 216 00:09:11,487 --> 00:09:12,863 And at that moment, I told her, 217 00:09:12,864 --> 00:09:14,698 "No, he can't live with me." 218 00:09:14,699 --> 00:09:17,242 And then, I looked at him, and she's, like, sad and crying, 219 00:09:17,243 --> 00:09:20,620 and she said, "Please, let him live with you just for a month." 220 00:09:20,621 --> 00:09:22,748 This was when we were living in the camper trailer, 221 00:09:22,749 --> 00:09:25,125 and I told him, "You can live with us. 222 00:09:25,126 --> 00:09:28,712 Get your stuff, put it in my truck, and come home." 223 00:09:28,713 --> 00:09:33,675 And from that day on, I fed him, gave him money, 224 00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:35,051 took care of him. 225 00:09:35,052 --> 00:09:38,305 He was like a... like a little brother, 226 00:09:38,306 --> 00:09:40,265 kid brother that was pushed on you, 227 00:09:40,266 --> 00:09:43,393 and... and when they... he's older than me by a few months, 228 00:09:43,394 --> 00:09:45,520 but I had to take care of him because he had nothing. 229 00:09:45,521 --> 00:09:47,272 He had nobody. 230 00:09:47,273 --> 00:09:49,775 Little did I know he had a very supportive family. 231 00:09:49,776 --> 00:09:52,444 His mom and dad were both supportive. 232 00:09:52,445 --> 00:09:53,987 He just didn't want to follow rules. 233 00:09:53,988 --> 00:09:56,239 He was just like me and didn't want to follow rules, 234 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,158 and that's why he ended up living with me, 235 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:00,911 'cause they said, "Work and you can live with us." 236 00:10:00,912 --> 00:10:02,746 He didn't want to work. 237 00:10:02,747 --> 00:10:07,125 - And you were sent on a outward Bound trip into Florida. 238 00:10:07,126 --> 00:10:08,752 What happened? What was that, yeah? 239 00:10:08,753 --> 00:10:10,587 - Well, you know, I'm a city boy at heart, 240 00:10:10,588 --> 00:10:12,005 you know what I'm saying? 241 00:10:12,006 --> 00:10:13,757 I'm really not into the nature and bugs 242 00:10:13,758 --> 00:10:16,092 and... and the weather and, you know. 243 00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:20,347 So, you know, when... they sent me on a two week canoe trip. 244 00:10:20,348 --> 00:10:22,015 - Which sounds wonderful for me, but... 245 00:10:22,016 --> 00:10:23,809 - Yeah, you know, you know, I like to canoe, 246 00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:25,185 but what it... what was... 247 00:10:25,186 --> 00:10:26,728 It wasn't the canoeing that was bad. 248 00:10:26,729 --> 00:10:28,271 It was that it was in the Everglades. 249 00:10:28,272 --> 00:10:30,190 I mean, we're seeing alligators everywhere. 250 00:10:30,191 --> 00:10:31,566 Now, my question is... 251 00:10:31,567 --> 00:10:33,527 and I didn't even realize that until I got here... 252 00:10:33,528 --> 00:10:35,070 what happened if I would've fell out 253 00:10:35,071 --> 00:10:36,446 and got eaten by an alligator? 254 00:10:36,447 --> 00:10:37,948 Who would've been responsible? 255 00:10:37,949 --> 00:10:40,033 You know, did my parents sign some type of waiver? 256 00:10:40,034 --> 00:10:41,952 Because there was alligators everywhere. 257 00:10:41,953 --> 00:10:43,954 - Well, a young man of 13, you better watch out 258 00:10:43,955 --> 00:10:45,747 and... and handle the alligators well, yes. 259 00:10:45,748 --> 00:10:47,123 - Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 260 00:10:47,124 --> 00:10:48,708 - But what happened then? You didn't... 261 00:10:48,709 --> 00:10:51,002 - Well, I think it was on the third or fourth day. 262 00:10:51,003 --> 00:10:54,840 We would canoe until, like, nighttime and pull in. 263 00:10:54,841 --> 00:10:57,551 I guess they had certain designations marked, 264 00:10:57,552 --> 00:10:59,511 and sometimes we'd pull in, like, at midnight. 265 00:10:59,512 --> 00:11:01,888 There's bugs... you can reach out and grab a handful of bugs, 266 00:11:01,889 --> 00:11:03,557 and then they'd want us to cook dinner, 267 00:11:03,558 --> 00:11:05,267 and, you know, I'm like, "Man, I can't." 268 00:11:05,268 --> 00:11:06,935 And one of the things of the program was 269 00:11:06,936 --> 00:11:08,603 to teach you immediate... 270 00:11:08,604 --> 00:11:10,856 you know, every action there's a... there's a reaction, 271 00:11:10,857 --> 00:11:12,816 so immediate consequences to your decisions, 272 00:11:12,817 --> 00:11:14,401 and one of the things I learned is that 273 00:11:14,402 --> 00:11:16,111 if I don't pay attention to the lessons... 274 00:11:16,112 --> 00:11:17,612 we had these bags for our property, 275 00:11:17,613 --> 00:11:20,198 and you had to seal them right, or they wouldn't be waterproof. 276 00:11:20,199 --> 00:11:22,158 Well, I didn't listen, and it fell in the water, 277 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:24,327 and all my stuff got wet, so I didn't have my own tent. 278 00:11:24,328 --> 00:11:25,996 I didn't have no toilet paper any more, 279 00:11:25,997 --> 00:11:27,372 and I didn't like that. 280 00:11:27,373 --> 00:11:29,374 So basically, I... I was my typical stubborn self, 281 00:11:29,375 --> 00:11:30,750 and I told them, "You know what?" 282 00:11:30,751 --> 00:11:32,502 I ain't doing this no more. Take me home." 283 00:11:32,503 --> 00:11:34,462 - But you were not attacked by alligators, but... 284 00:11:34,463 --> 00:11:36,256 - No, we were attacked by monkeys, though. 285 00:11:36,257 --> 00:11:37,632 - By monkeys. What happened? 286 00:11:37,633 --> 00:11:39,718 - Absolutely, monkeys were jumping from one side 287 00:11:39,719 --> 00:11:41,136 to the trees on the side we were at 288 00:11:41,137 --> 00:11:42,679 and come... trying to come over there, 289 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,473 and they couldn't figure out where the monkeys came from, 290 00:11:46,142 --> 00:11:48,351 but there was a whole bunch of them, 291 00:11:48,352 --> 00:11:49,853 a whole bunch. 292 00:11:49,854 --> 00:11:51,271 I wanted to get out and get one, 293 00:11:51,272 --> 00:11:53,481 but they said they have diseases, right? 294 00:12:27,558 --> 00:12:29,559 - So best... case scenario, 295 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,938 if you are granted parole in 2041, 296 00:12:32,939 --> 00:12:35,857 how old would you be then? 297 00:12:35,858 --> 00:12:37,359 Does this ever occur to you? 298 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,902 Do you want to think about it? 299 00:12:38,903 --> 00:12:42,113 - I'll be 59, 60. 300 00:12:42,114 --> 00:12:43,490 I was 19. 301 00:12:43,491 --> 00:12:45,325 I have to do 40 years from 19, 302 00:12:45,326 --> 00:12:49,579 which will be 59 years old. 303 00:12:49,580 --> 00:12:50,914 Long time. 304 00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:57,045 - When it came to the phase after your trial was over, 305 00:12:57,046 --> 00:13:01,424 for punishment phase, your father showed up in court. 306 00:13:02,718 --> 00:13:04,469 Can you describe the scene? 307 00:13:06,097 --> 00:13:07,555 - I knew he was coming, 308 00:13:07,556 --> 00:13:10,141 and I knew what he was gonna testify to, 309 00:13:10,142 --> 00:13:12,727 but to hear him testify, it's like... 310 00:13:12,728 --> 00:13:14,604 I was born with neuroblastomas. 311 00:13:14,605 --> 00:13:17,649 I... I had 18 surgeries by the time I was five, 312 00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:20,110 and I... I don't know a lot about it 313 00:13:20,111 --> 00:13:24,030 because it's something that I try to shy away from. 314 00:13:24,031 --> 00:13:26,616 I knew he was gonna testify to my raising, 315 00:13:26,617 --> 00:13:28,910 and I was a... in pain all the time, 316 00:13:28,911 --> 00:13:31,121 and he'd watch me cry to sleep, and... 317 00:13:32,832 --> 00:13:35,166 It was difficult, because I seen him cry. 318 00:13:35,167 --> 00:13:36,751 I mean, if you ever see my dad, 319 00:13:36,752 --> 00:13:41,089 he's 6'6 ", 6'7", 300 pounds, big old guy, tattooed. 320 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:42,924 - And they brought him in from... from prison. 321 00:13:42,925 --> 00:13:44,300 - He came in from prison. 322 00:13:44,301 --> 00:13:46,469 - Is he still incarcerated? 323 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:48,972 - He's right across the street on Ellis Unit. 324 00:13:50,975 --> 00:13:53,184 - Mr. Burkett, how are you doing? 325 00:13:53,185 --> 00:13:55,311 - Just... I'm doing fine. 326 00:13:55,312 --> 00:13:56,813 Doing fine. Little sick. 327 00:13:56,814 --> 00:13:58,815 - How fine? - Little bit sick. 328 00:13:58,816 --> 00:14:00,775 - Mm-hmm. 329 00:14:00,776 --> 00:14:03,194 You are in here for how many years? 330 00:14:03,195 --> 00:14:04,612 - 40. 331 00:14:04,613 --> 00:14:06,197 - 40 years. - Yes, sir. 332 00:14:06,198 --> 00:14:07,991 - Eight felony counts, is that correct? 333 00:14:07,992 --> 00:14:10,410 - Yes, sir. - That's pretty serious. 334 00:14:10,411 --> 00:14:11,911 - Yes, sir. 335 00:14:11,912 --> 00:14:15,915 - And you spent some time before this 40 year sentence in jail. 336 00:14:15,916 --> 00:14:17,292 Is that correct? 337 00:14:17,293 --> 00:14:18,668 - Yes, sir. - Yeah. 338 00:14:18,669 --> 00:14:21,171 - I've been in prison five times. 339 00:14:21,172 --> 00:14:23,423 - How many years already? 340 00:14:23,424 --> 00:14:25,383 - A 2 year sentence, a 5 year sentence, 341 00:14:25,384 --> 00:14:28,636 a 30 year sentence, and then this 40. 342 00:14:28,637 --> 00:14:30,638 - That's a lot. - Yes, sir. 343 00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,849 - What went wrong? 344 00:14:32,850 --> 00:14:35,185 - Drugs and alcohol. 345 00:14:35,186 --> 00:14:36,728 - Can you explain? 346 00:14:36,729 --> 00:14:41,232 - Well, I started using drugs when I was about 13, 347 00:14:41,233 --> 00:14:43,777 drinking and drugging, and, uh... 348 00:14:45,196 --> 00:14:48,031 Selling and manufacturing. 349 00:14:48,032 --> 00:14:50,533 Some stealing and burglarizing going along with it 350 00:14:50,534 --> 00:14:52,160 to sup... support the habit 351 00:14:52,161 --> 00:14:56,164 and always end up back in prison. 352 00:14:56,165 --> 00:15:00,251 - There's one significant moment when Jason, your son, 353 00:15:00,252 --> 00:15:03,421 was found guilty for capital murder... 354 00:15:03,422 --> 00:15:05,799 - Yes. - And triple homicide. 355 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,760 During the sentencing phase, you appeared in court. 356 00:15:08,761 --> 00:15:12,514 Can you describe what you said to the jury? 357 00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:19,729 - Well... (clears throat) 358 00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:22,899 I explained to 'em what prison life was about, 359 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,568 and I explained... I explained to 'em 360 00:15:25,569 --> 00:15:28,363 that I didn't think killing him 361 00:15:28,364 --> 00:15:33,701 was gonna bring back those people or really, you know, 362 00:15:33,702 --> 00:15:37,080 do anything to correct what happened, 363 00:15:37,081 --> 00:15:41,334 and I asked the jury to, you know, 364 00:15:41,335 --> 00:15:44,129 "Please, you know, don't kill my son." 365 00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:45,505 I asked 'em. 366 00:15:45,506 --> 00:15:47,882 I said just, "Please, don't kill my son." 367 00:15:47,883 --> 00:15:50,885 He never had a chance. 368 00:15:50,886 --> 00:15:52,470 He didn't have a father. 369 00:15:52,471 --> 00:15:55,431 I told 'em that, you know, he did... I was never there, 370 00:15:55,432 --> 00:15:57,600 and his mother was a, you know, single mother 371 00:15:57,601 --> 00:15:59,477 with four children, 372 00:15:59,478 --> 00:16:02,355 and... and she had handicaps. 373 00:16:02,356 --> 00:16:04,858 She... she's on disability. 374 00:16:04,859 --> 00:16:07,652 Most of that time, she was living on disability, 375 00:16:07,653 --> 00:16:10,071 and so they... they really didn't... 376 00:16:10,072 --> 00:16:12,490 they lived off food stamps, 377 00:16:12,491 --> 00:16:15,785 and, you know, HUD housing and that type of thing, 378 00:16:15,786 --> 00:16:19,497 and... and he... he really... 379 00:16:19,498 --> 00:16:24,294 he really had a real poor life growing up. 380 00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:28,256 I just asked 'em not to kill my son. 381 00:16:28,257 --> 00:16:29,632 It wasn't his fault. 382 00:16:29,633 --> 00:16:31,593 I... it... I wished I could... 383 00:16:31,594 --> 00:16:34,095 I wish that I could take the time, his time. 384 00:16:34,096 --> 00:16:37,932 I wish I could, 'cause I feel like that it's my fault. 385 00:16:37,933 --> 00:16:40,310 I... I... really do. 386 00:16:40,311 --> 00:16:42,645 I feel like it's... 387 00:16:42,646 --> 00:16:44,772 I'm as much at fault as he is, 388 00:16:44,773 --> 00:16:46,441 'cause if I'd have been there, 389 00:16:46,442 --> 00:16:48,234 it, quite possibly, maybe not, 390 00:16:48,235 --> 00:16:50,236 but... but it might possibly have been different. 391 00:16:50,237 --> 00:16:52,488 He'd have had a better chance. 392 00:16:52,489 --> 00:16:54,991 You know, he'd have a whole lot better chance, 393 00:16:54,992 --> 00:16:57,660 if I'd have been there helping his mother raise him, 394 00:16:57,661 --> 00:16:59,537 but I wasn't. 395 00:16:59,538 --> 00:17:01,748 The jury got up to leave, 396 00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:04,334 and the door was right here to my right, 397 00:17:04,335 --> 00:17:07,670 and as the door closed behind them, 398 00:17:07,671 --> 00:17:09,797 I heard two ladies break down. 399 00:17:09,798 --> 00:17:11,841 I'm... I'm real emotional, 400 00:17:11,842 --> 00:17:14,344 and I'm crying through the whole thing, 401 00:17:14,345 --> 00:17:17,513 but as they went through that door, and the door closed, 402 00:17:17,514 --> 00:17:21,351 I heard two ladies break down crying. 403 00:17:21,352 --> 00:17:26,022 They broke down, and then the... 404 00:17:26,023 --> 00:17:29,025 when it... it was all over and his lawyer come told me, 405 00:17:29,026 --> 00:17:31,527 he said... I remember the... his words. 406 00:17:31,528 --> 00:17:34,113 He said, "You got him." 407 00:17:34,114 --> 00:17:35,490 - You saved a life. 408 00:17:35,491 --> 00:17:36,908 - He said... he said, "You got him." 409 00:17:36,909 --> 00:17:38,701 I said, "What do you mean?" 410 00:17:38,702 --> 00:17:40,745 He said, "You got him." 411 00:17:40,746 --> 00:17:42,622 And that's where I... that's what saved... 412 00:17:42,623 --> 00:17:43,998 there was two votes. 413 00:17:43,999 --> 00:17:47,502 It was ten to two, and there was two votes 414 00:17:47,503 --> 00:17:51,047 that voted not to kill him, 415 00:17:51,048 --> 00:17:55,551 and I think those were the two ladies right there that... 416 00:17:55,552 --> 00:17:59,681 they're the ones that saved his life. 417 00:17:59,682 --> 00:18:02,141 - But you can be proud of this moment. 418 00:18:02,142 --> 00:18:03,893 - Yeah. 419 00:18:06,772 --> 00:18:08,982 I had some help too. 420 00:18:08,983 --> 00:18:10,525 God helped me. 421 00:18:10,526 --> 00:18:11,943 He did. 422 00:18:11,944 --> 00:18:14,237 I asked God to help me, and I think He did. 423 00:18:17,866 --> 00:18:21,577 I didn't deserve any help for him. 424 00:18:21,578 --> 00:18:23,579 He may not deserve the help, 425 00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:27,625 but we got it from some place, so... 426 00:18:33,299 --> 00:18:35,008 - The hardest part was to look at him 427 00:18:35,009 --> 00:18:36,384 and for him to look at me, 428 00:18:36,385 --> 00:18:37,885 and I seen that he was sincere, 429 00:18:37,886 --> 00:18:39,637 that he really was sorry for, you know, 430 00:18:39,638 --> 00:18:41,639 what he had done throughout my whole childhood, 431 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,016 and he had been in prison. 432 00:18:43,017 --> 00:18:44,600 I don't blame him for it, 433 00:18:44,601 --> 00:18:46,436 but I seen right there that he understood 434 00:18:46,437 --> 00:18:48,938 that it did affect us, and I cried that one day, 435 00:18:48,939 --> 00:18:50,815 that was it, through the... the whole trial. 436 00:18:50,816 --> 00:18:52,400 Even after conviction, 437 00:18:52,401 --> 00:18:56,112 the only thing that hurt me was my... my dad testifying. 438 00:18:57,948 --> 00:19:00,783 - Whenever I went back and testified, 439 00:19:00,784 --> 00:19:02,910 his brother went back and testified too. 440 00:19:02,911 --> 00:19:04,954 His brother was in... in prison, Chris, 441 00:19:04,955 --> 00:19:09,125 and... and we, me and Chris went... 442 00:19:09,126 --> 00:19:11,794 came back to the diagnostics together, 443 00:19:11,795 --> 00:19:13,796 and then... and I'm embarrassed, 444 00:19:13,797 --> 00:19:18,134 but all of three of us, we had Thanksgiving together, 445 00:19:18,135 --> 00:19:23,014 me and Chris and Jason over at the diagnostics unit. 446 00:19:23,015 --> 00:19:26,559 You know, and they, uh... 447 00:19:28,687 --> 00:19:30,063 They think that's kind of cool, 448 00:19:30,064 --> 00:19:32,357 but as a father, I thought that was pretty embarrassing 449 00:19:32,358 --> 00:19:34,442 to be sitting there in prison with my sons. 450 00:19:34,443 --> 00:19:37,320 - All of them incarcerated. - Yes, sir. 451 00:19:37,321 --> 00:19:40,448 And then me and Jason went on over to the next place together, 452 00:19:40,449 --> 00:19:42,450 handcuffed together in the bus, 453 00:19:42,451 --> 00:19:44,285 and that's something that I never in my life 454 00:19:44,286 --> 00:19:47,497 would ever dreamed... dreamed of that would've happened, 455 00:19:47,498 --> 00:19:51,667 that that same little baby that was... 456 00:19:51,668 --> 00:19:55,463 We had to hold him down to take bone marrow tests out of, 457 00:19:55,464 --> 00:19:57,465 the same little 6 pound baby. 458 00:19:57,466 --> 00:20:01,636 - Describe the feeling to me when you are handcuffed together 459 00:20:01,637 --> 00:20:05,181 with your own son in the same bus. 460 00:20:05,182 --> 00:20:06,599 Can you describe that? 461 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,310 - No, not really. It... it's, uh... 462 00:20:09,311 --> 00:20:11,562 - Try to describe it for us. 463 00:20:11,563 --> 00:20:14,273 (sighs) 464 00:20:14,274 --> 00:20:17,068 Well, I don't know. 465 00:20:17,069 --> 00:20:19,028 I just felt like a total failure, 466 00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:21,322 total failure as a father. 467 00:20:21,323 --> 00:20:23,074 - And you could feel his hand, can't you? 468 00:20:23,075 --> 00:20:24,700 - Yes. 469 00:20:24,701 --> 00:20:27,495 Yeah, we were handcuffed to this hand and his right hand, 470 00:20:27,496 --> 00:20:31,707 and we were sitting there, and... and I was just... 471 00:20:31,708 --> 00:20:33,334 it was just total failure. 472 00:20:33,335 --> 00:20:35,294 That's what I felt like. 473 00:20:35,295 --> 00:20:38,047 I felt like crap, you know, 474 00:20:38,048 --> 00:20:39,715 and I used a different word to the jury, 475 00:20:39,716 --> 00:20:41,634 and... and... and that's... 476 00:20:41,635 --> 00:20:43,553 and that's what I meant. 477 00:20:43,554 --> 00:20:45,888 You know, he had trash for a... for a father, 478 00:20:45,889 --> 00:20:49,016 and... and then here I was sitting with my baby son 479 00:20:49,017 --> 00:20:53,187 on a prison bus, and, I mean, I don't think it... 480 00:20:53,188 --> 00:20:56,732 I don't think it gets much lower than that, you know? 481 00:20:56,733 --> 00:20:59,694 It just don't. 482 00:20:59,695 --> 00:21:02,530 Knowing me or him, neither one'll ever, you know, 483 00:21:02,531 --> 00:21:06,325 get out again. 484 00:21:06,326 --> 00:21:10,079 I just got a three year set off again 485 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,415 about a week ago, so... 486 00:21:12,416 --> 00:21:16,586 We'll never... me or him will never get out again. 487 00:21:16,587 --> 00:21:18,254 - And will he ever get out again? 488 00:21:18,255 --> 00:21:20,089 - I don't think so. 489 00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:22,091 He comes up for parole the first time in... 490 00:21:22,092 --> 00:21:25,428 in 1942 for the first time. 491 00:21:25,429 --> 00:21:27,930 - 40 years after his conviction. 492 00:21:27,931 --> 00:21:29,932 - Yes, sir, 1941. I'm sorry. 493 00:21:29,933 --> 00:21:31,934 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 494 00:21:31,935 --> 00:21:35,354 - Yeah, 2041. You're a century back. 495 00:21:35,355 --> 00:21:36,939 - Yes. - Behind. 496 00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:39,901 - 19 yeah, 2041. I'm sorry. 497 00:21:39,902 --> 00:21:42,195 - Well, it doesn't matter. It's time must be. 498 00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:43,613 - A long time. 499 00:21:43,614 --> 00:21:46,407 - Time is probably different for you in here. 500 00:21:46,408 --> 00:21:48,534 - Yes, sir. 501 00:22:44,299 --> 00:22:45,675 - This is actually the vehicle 502 00:22:45,676 --> 00:22:48,135 that was in Sandra Stotler's garage. 503 00:22:48,136 --> 00:22:49,512 This was the vehicle 504 00:22:49,513 --> 00:22:54,850 that Michael Perry and Jason Burkett was... was after. 505 00:22:54,851 --> 00:22:56,936 Three people died for this car, 506 00:22:56,937 --> 00:22:58,646 a car that was in their possession 507 00:22:58,647 --> 00:23:02,149 for less than 72 hours, I believe. 508 00:23:04,194 --> 00:23:05,695 Within a couple of years, 509 00:23:05,696 --> 00:23:07,572 I mean, this vehicle was just trashed, 510 00:23:07,573 --> 00:23:08,948 the inside of it, 511 00:23:08,949 --> 00:23:11,033 because there was actually a tree that had rooted 512 00:23:11,034 --> 00:23:12,743 and had come up through the center of it, 513 00:23:12,744 --> 00:23:14,120 and it tore the floorboard up, 514 00:23:14,121 --> 00:23:18,708 and whenever we actually had to move it over to this lot, 515 00:23:18,709 --> 00:23:21,043 it was a little bit difficult because of that. 516 00:23:21,044 --> 00:23:22,795 - A tree grew inside of it. 517 00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:25,339 - A tree grew up from the bottom up into... 518 00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:26,674 up into the car. 519 00:23:31,847 --> 00:23:34,682 - Why did they die? 520 00:23:34,683 --> 00:23:38,060 - I ask myself that question every day. 521 00:23:38,061 --> 00:23:42,356 I mean, for a vehicle? 522 00:23:42,357 --> 00:23:45,359 You know, I... I don't know. 523 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:46,736 I don't know. 524 00:23:46,737 --> 00:23:48,946 People die every day over giving people a dirty look 525 00:23:48,947 --> 00:23:51,365 or, you know, $2. 526 00:23:51,366 --> 00:23:54,076 People rob each other, and I don't know. 527 00:23:54,077 --> 00:23:55,536 I don't know why they died, 528 00:23:55,537 --> 00:23:58,331 the greed of these two boys. 529 00:23:58,332 --> 00:23:59,749 I don't know. 530 00:23:59,750 --> 00:24:01,417 I don't... I don't have an answer. 531 00:24:01,418 --> 00:24:05,504 - Can you speak about the family of victims? 532 00:24:06,965 --> 00:24:10,509 Nobody seems to address that side. 533 00:24:12,095 --> 00:24:13,512 - I... I don't... 534 00:24:13,513 --> 00:24:15,681 - How do you live with all this? 535 00:24:15,682 --> 00:24:17,767 (sighs) I didn't for a while. 536 00:24:17,768 --> 00:24:19,185 I'm starting to live again, 537 00:24:19,186 --> 00:24:24,231 but basically I just shut down. 538 00:24:24,232 --> 00:24:29,654 Montgomery County has a victims assistance program, 539 00:24:29,655 --> 00:24:33,115 but when you... when your whole family's ripped from you, 540 00:24:33,116 --> 00:24:35,868 you... you know, you're kind of like, what's the point? 541 00:24:35,869 --> 00:24:37,453 What's the point of living any more? 542 00:24:37,454 --> 00:24:39,163 I don't have a family to share it with. 543 00:24:39,164 --> 00:24:40,915 And I know I have to live for my children, 544 00:24:40,916 --> 00:24:42,291 to raise my children. 545 00:24:42,292 --> 00:24:44,126 I don't want them to have a miserable life 546 00:24:44,127 --> 00:24:47,838 or have a depressed mother all the time. 547 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:52,009 But for about four years, I didn't go anywhere. 548 00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:55,096 I stayed in the house, 549 00:24:55,097 --> 00:24:56,514 took the phone out of the home. 550 00:24:56,515 --> 00:24:57,890 I don't like to talk to people. 551 00:24:57,891 --> 00:25:00,601 I figure, if I don't get close to anybody, 552 00:25:00,602 --> 00:25:02,395 I don't... you know, I won't get hurt again. 553 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:04,063 I don't know. 554 00:25:04,064 --> 00:25:06,816 I just... I just shut down, really. 555 00:25:06,817 --> 00:25:09,318 My grandmother shut down. 556 00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:14,865 Our... our lives are... are empty, very empty. 557 00:25:14,866 --> 00:25:16,492 Very empty. 558 00:25:21,581 --> 00:25:22,998 That's Adam. 559 00:25:22,999 --> 00:25:25,501 That was his six... he was 16 there. 560 00:25:25,502 --> 00:25:27,962 That was his last school picture. 561 00:25:41,351 --> 00:25:44,437 My brother, my brother was my best friend. 562 00:25:44,438 --> 00:25:49,024 He was... he was only 16. 563 00:25:49,025 --> 00:25:51,527 It is true that he is not my real brother. 564 00:25:51,528 --> 00:25:54,405 My sister was... got pregnant when she was 16, 565 00:25:54,406 --> 00:25:56,615 and my parents adopted him, 566 00:25:56,616 --> 00:25:59,660 and they were actually out of town the day he was born, 567 00:25:59,661 --> 00:26:02,538 so I was the first one to hold him, 568 00:26:02,539 --> 00:26:05,624 and I just... I had this feeling his whole life 569 00:26:05,625 --> 00:26:07,334 that something was gonna happen to him, 570 00:26:07,335 --> 00:26:09,587 and I remember calling my mother and saying, you know, 571 00:26:09,588 --> 00:26:11,088 "What's Adam doing? Where's Adam?" 572 00:26:11,089 --> 00:26:13,174 You need to make sure... y'all just moved up to ohio. 573 00:26:13,175 --> 00:26:15,009 "You need to make sure you're watching him." 574 00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:17,011 And my mom was like, "I've raised five children. 575 00:26:17,012 --> 00:26:18,387 I can take care of him." 576 00:26:18,388 --> 00:26:20,806 And when he hit 16, I knew he was... he was good. 577 00:26:20,807 --> 00:26:22,183 He was safe. He was a man. 578 00:26:22,184 --> 00:26:24,101 He'd be able to take care of himself now. 579 00:26:25,187 --> 00:26:26,645 He was such a great kid. 580 00:26:26,646 --> 00:26:29,690 He was in love for the first time in his life. 581 00:26:38,408 --> 00:26:45,581 And, um, one... one thing that sticks out for me, 582 00:26:45,582 --> 00:26:48,250 my mom always protected me. 583 00:26:48,251 --> 00:26:51,754 One thing that I remember, 584 00:26:51,755 --> 00:26:54,256 I was supposed to get married. 585 00:26:54,257 --> 00:26:57,426 Well, I did get married September 16, 1995, 586 00:26:57,427 --> 00:27:00,429 but my dad, Mel, he was a preacher, 587 00:27:00,430 --> 00:27:03,224 and he was supposed to marry me and Kenneth. 588 00:27:03,225 --> 00:27:05,392 He died six months before the wedding. 589 00:27:05,393 --> 00:27:10,314 He was hit by a train, him and my older brother 590 00:27:10,315 --> 00:27:11,982 and the family dog. 591 00:27:11,983 --> 00:27:16,737 And so we got... I refused to get married in a church, 592 00:27:16,738 --> 00:27:19,073 so we got married on the boat in Lake Conroe. 593 00:27:19,074 --> 00:27:20,991 Right as I was walking out the... 594 00:27:20,992 --> 00:27:23,410 walking out the door to go down the aisle, 595 00:27:23,411 --> 00:27:27,748 my mother pinned my dad's wedding ring inside my dress 596 00:27:27,749 --> 00:27:29,124 right over my heart, 597 00:27:29,125 --> 00:27:32,044 and she said, "I didn't want your dad to miss this." 598 00:27:32,045 --> 00:27:34,046 And, you know, that just... 599 00:27:36,091 --> 00:27:37,466 - You loved her. 600 00:27:37,467 --> 00:27:40,469 - Yes, and I know she was in so much pain that day, 601 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:44,723 but she hid it because I was so happy. 602 00:27:44,724 --> 00:27:47,643 She hid her pain for me, 603 00:27:47,644 --> 00:27:51,021 and, you know, she... she just made it through the day. 604 00:27:52,983 --> 00:27:55,985 I just miss 'em a lot. 605 00:27:55,986 --> 00:28:00,364 Our family's just so incomplete, so incomplete. 606 00:28:03,994 --> 00:28:06,328 You know, sometimes my kids will ask me things, 607 00:28:06,329 --> 00:28:07,788 and I'll go, "I don't know." 608 00:28:07,789 --> 00:28:09,290 I wonder what my mo...". 609 00:28:09,291 --> 00:28:11,834 You know, there's things at all times of day and night 610 00:28:11,835 --> 00:28:13,752 I want to call and ask her. 611 00:28:13,753 --> 00:28:18,132 It took me forever to realize she was really gone 612 00:28:18,133 --> 00:28:20,676 'cause I would want to pick up the phone and call her. 613 00:28:20,677 --> 00:28:24,346 - Is this why you got rid of the phone? 614 00:28:24,347 --> 00:28:31,687 - Yes, I... I did not want another phone call 615 00:28:31,688 --> 00:28:35,524 telling me somebody else in my family had died. 616 00:28:36,943 --> 00:28:38,736 I couldn't handle those phone calls any more. 617 00:28:41,323 --> 00:28:43,073 I couldn't handle 'em any more, 618 00:28:43,074 --> 00:28:46,827 so I just cut myself off from the world. 619 00:28:48,955 --> 00:28:51,165 I can't... I can't have a phone on. 620 00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:53,125 I just don't like to hear the phone ring any more 621 00:28:53,126 --> 00:28:55,836 'cause all it ever brought me was bad news. 622 00:28:55,837 --> 00:28:57,338 - The worst. - The worst. 623 00:28:57,339 --> 00:28:59,882 - Not just bad, yeah. 624 00:28:59,883 --> 00:29:01,884 You had to... to face it. 625 00:29:01,885 --> 00:29:04,136 - Yeah. 626 00:29:04,137 --> 00:29:05,888 Well, you know, it's just, I mean, 627 00:29:05,889 --> 00:29:11,393 not only did I lose my mother and my father and my brother 628 00:29:11,394 --> 00:29:13,228 to tragic circumstances. 629 00:29:13,229 --> 00:29:14,897 I mean, my grandfather had a stroke. 630 00:29:14,898 --> 00:29:16,273 My uncle hung himself. 631 00:29:16,274 --> 00:29:19,068 My other uncle had a heroin overdose. 632 00:29:19,069 --> 00:29:22,446 My stepbrother shot himself 'cause he had pancreatic cancer. 633 00:29:22,447 --> 00:29:24,740 My real father died in his sleep. 634 00:29:24,741 --> 00:29:27,201 All this was in six years, a six year period. 635 00:29:27,202 --> 00:29:30,329 I lost everyone in my family, everybody. 636 00:30:16,251 --> 00:30:18,669 - Mr. Burkett, if you close the eyes 637 00:30:18,670 --> 00:30:21,630 and you think about a different life 638 00:30:21,631 --> 00:30:25,092 and it could start all over, 639 00:30:25,093 --> 00:30:28,554 how would you raise the children? 640 00:30:28,555 --> 00:30:30,472 - Well... 641 00:30:33,351 --> 00:30:36,895 It's hard to answer something that you've never done, 642 00:30:36,896 --> 00:30:38,981 and, you know, embarrassing... 643 00:30:38,982 --> 00:30:40,858 it's embarrassing to say that, 644 00:30:40,859 --> 00:30:43,110 but... but I know when... I would like... 645 00:30:43,111 --> 00:30:48,282 I would like to them have... 646 00:30:48,283 --> 00:30:50,826 I had a scholarship to the University of Texas 647 00:30:50,827 --> 00:30:53,787 in 1973, in football, 648 00:30:53,788 --> 00:30:55,622 and I quit school in my senior year, 649 00:30:55,623 --> 00:30:59,460 quit football and quit school and lost that, 650 00:30:59,461 --> 00:31:02,546 and I wish I could go back to right there. 651 00:31:02,547 --> 00:31:04,214 - Yes, go back to right there. 652 00:31:04,215 --> 00:31:05,841 Now you have the children. 653 00:31:05,842 --> 00:31:09,928 - Then I have the children, and... and I would had... 654 00:31:09,929 --> 00:31:12,973 I would have done everything in my power 655 00:31:12,974 --> 00:31:17,352 to... to help them finish school like I didn't. 656 00:31:17,353 --> 00:31:19,646 You always tell them, "Don't be like me." 657 00:31:19,647 --> 00:31:21,190 Well, I wished... 658 00:31:21,191 --> 00:31:23,692 I wished I would've been something they could've been, 659 00:31:23,693 --> 00:31:25,903 and I wish they could've finished school. 660 00:31:25,904 --> 00:31:28,197 I wish we could've played baseball like I did 661 00:31:28,198 --> 00:31:30,866 when I was little, in Little League. 662 00:31:30,867 --> 00:31:32,701 I wish that we could've played baseball. 663 00:31:32,702 --> 00:31:35,329 Two of them did for, like, one time. 664 00:31:35,330 --> 00:31:37,748 I wish we could've played baseball, 665 00:31:37,749 --> 00:31:40,250 and I wished I could've went to their football games. 666 00:31:42,295 --> 00:31:45,798 And I raised a steer in... in school for FFA. 667 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:47,341 I wish they could've did that. 668 00:31:47,342 --> 00:31:48,717 We lived in the country. 669 00:31:48,718 --> 00:31:51,678 That's what I wish we could go back, all of us, 670 00:31:51,679 --> 00:31:55,307 and... and... and go to school, school events. 671 00:31:55,308 --> 00:31:56,683 I got to watch one of my sons 672 00:31:56,684 --> 00:31:58,769 play the horn one time in school, 673 00:31:58,770 --> 00:32:01,355 and... and that's the stuff that I remember. 674 00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:03,023 That's the good stuff, 675 00:32:03,024 --> 00:32:05,442 and this all wouldn't have happened. 676 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,101 - I want to say this on the record. 677 00:32:39,102 --> 00:32:41,103 I'm not saying that my husband was a Boy Scout. 678 00:32:41,104 --> 00:32:43,730 I'm not saying that Jason Burkett did absolutely... 679 00:32:43,731 --> 00:32:45,941 had no knowledge and was, like, selling cookies 680 00:32:45,942 --> 00:32:49,945 or raising money for camp when that happened. 681 00:32:49,946 --> 00:32:56,451 I'm saying that Jason did not kill one, two, or three people. 682 00:32:56,452 --> 00:33:00,956 Sandra, Jeremy, and Adam were not killed by Jason. 683 00:33:00,957 --> 00:33:05,335 - And you asked your husband... 684 00:33:05,336 --> 00:33:07,838 you asked Jason point blank, 685 00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:09,673 "Can you tell me what... what happened?" 686 00:33:09,674 --> 00:33:12,301 because you wanted to make sure. 687 00:33:12,302 --> 00:33:14,303 What did you ask him? 688 00:33:14,304 --> 00:33:16,305 - I've asked Jason multiple times 689 00:33:16,306 --> 00:33:18,515 to tell me everything that I need to know. 690 00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:19,892 I said, "Jason..." 691 00:33:19,893 --> 00:33:21,602 Jason doesn't have a whole lot of money, 692 00:33:21,603 --> 00:33:23,145 so we do most of his stuff pro se, 693 00:33:23,146 --> 00:33:25,981 which is where we file it ourselves, 694 00:33:25,982 --> 00:33:30,110 and me and his father have pretty much done his appeal, 695 00:33:30,111 --> 00:33:32,154 and I always ask him, 696 00:33:32,155 --> 00:33:34,573 "I need to know everything you can tell me 697 00:33:34,574 --> 00:33:36,241 to help you get home," 698 00:33:36,242 --> 00:33:38,493 and that's basically how we start our conversations, 699 00:33:38,494 --> 00:33:43,081 and Jason will recall things, and, you know, more and more, 700 00:33:43,082 --> 00:33:45,167 it's, like, been a snowball that I've picked up 701 00:33:45,168 --> 00:33:46,793 exactly what I think happened. 702 00:33:46,794 --> 00:33:48,170 - Yeah. 703 00:33:48,171 --> 00:33:50,214 And you are told he was innocent. 704 00:33:50,215 --> 00:33:51,715 - Yes. 705 00:33:51,716 --> 00:33:53,467 - And you do believe him. 706 00:33:53,468 --> 00:33:55,886 - I do believe him. 707 00:33:55,887 --> 00:33:59,848 I... like I said, I believe that Jason had involvement. 708 00:33:59,849 --> 00:34:02,559 I don't believe he killed three people. 709 00:34:03,937 --> 00:34:05,520 I wrote Jason for maybe two years 710 00:34:05,521 --> 00:34:07,147 before I went to meet him, 711 00:34:07,148 --> 00:34:09,858 because really I could do most of the stuff through the mail, 712 00:34:09,859 --> 00:34:11,860 and one day I was talking to his mother, 713 00:34:11,861 --> 00:34:14,488 and she said something to the effect of, 714 00:34:14,489 --> 00:34:16,615 "You'll never guess what Jason said to me today," 715 00:34:16,616 --> 00:34:18,033 and I said, "What?" 716 00:34:18,034 --> 00:34:22,162 And she said, "He told me that he was in love with you." 717 00:34:22,163 --> 00:34:25,832 And I said, "That's crazy." 718 00:34:25,833 --> 00:34:28,627 And I remember, to give you, like, the pre-story, 719 00:34:28,628 --> 00:34:30,462 I was with my best friend, and when I hung up, 720 00:34:30,463 --> 00:34:32,297 I said to my best friend... her name's Kat... 721 00:34:32,298 --> 00:34:36,134 I was like, "Kat, Jason Burkett's in love with me." 722 00:34:36,135 --> 00:34:37,886 She goes, "That's probably pretty good 723 00:34:37,887 --> 00:34:39,554 'cause you're in love with him too." 724 00:34:39,555 --> 00:34:41,515 And I said, "What are you talking about? 725 00:34:41,516 --> 00:34:42,975 "Don't be an idiot," you know? 726 00:34:42,976 --> 00:34:45,394 And she said, "Dude, when is the last time 727 00:34:45,395 --> 00:34:46,853 "you've been on a date? 728 00:34:46,854 --> 00:34:49,231 "When was the last time you haven't spent a Saturday night 729 00:34:49,232 --> 00:34:51,566 with Jason Burkett's court paperwork?" 730 00:34:51,567 --> 00:34:53,694 I was like, "Hey, that's not nice." 731 00:34:53,695 --> 00:34:55,112 But I ended up driving... 732 00:34:55,113 --> 00:34:56,530 I lived in Nebraska at the time. 733 00:34:56,531 --> 00:34:59,491 I ended up driving from omaha to Abilene 734 00:34:59,492 --> 00:35:02,244 because I wanted him to tell me himself, 735 00:35:02,245 --> 00:35:03,787 and he was at the Robertson Unit. 736 00:35:03,788 --> 00:35:05,580 - You were two days and two nights driving? 737 00:35:05,581 --> 00:35:07,040 - Yes. 738 00:35:07,041 --> 00:35:10,544 I drove it... it seemed, like, endless too. 739 00:35:10,545 --> 00:35:11,920 I drove, and I got there, 740 00:35:11,921 --> 00:35:13,338 and I remember, I just asked him. 741 00:35:13,339 --> 00:35:14,923 Like, that was the first thing I said. 742 00:35:14,924 --> 00:35:17,259 I was like, "Hi, we've never seen each other in our lives", 743 00:35:17,260 --> 00:35:18,635 "but hi. 744 00:35:18,636 --> 00:35:20,512 Your mom told me that you're in love with me." 745 00:35:20,513 --> 00:35:21,888 But I didn't say it. 746 00:35:21,889 --> 00:35:23,265 I wanted to be coy, so I said, 747 00:35:23,266 --> 00:35:25,434 "Your mom told me you told her something in a visit." 748 00:35:25,435 --> 00:35:27,060 I said, "What... what did you tell her?" 749 00:35:27,061 --> 00:35:28,937 And he said, "I need stamps?" 750 00:35:28,938 --> 00:35:30,772 And I was like, "I wouldn't be in Abilene 751 00:35:30,773 --> 00:35:32,441 "because you need stamps, right? 752 00:35:32,442 --> 00:35:34,276 What are you... don't play games with me." 753 00:35:34,277 --> 00:35:36,111 And he goes, "oh, that part where I said 754 00:35:36,112 --> 00:35:38,113 I was in love with you?" 755 00:35:38,114 --> 00:35:40,282 And then I dropped the phone because I was nervous, 756 00:35:40,283 --> 00:35:41,658 and I didn't know what to say, 757 00:35:41,659 --> 00:35:43,577 and I kind of fumbled through that whole visit 758 00:35:43,578 --> 00:35:45,746 because I didn't immediately go, "I love you too." 759 00:35:45,747 --> 00:35:47,748 It wasn't, you know, like a movie. 760 00:35:47,749 --> 00:35:49,166 I was very nervous. 761 00:35:49,167 --> 00:35:52,502 I'm not that girl that falls in love with an inmate. 762 00:35:52,503 --> 00:35:55,630 And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna be cool with it, 763 00:35:55,631 --> 00:35:59,301 and then when I left, the day I met Jason, 764 00:35:59,302 --> 00:36:00,844 there was a rainbow, and I'm not... 765 00:36:00,845 --> 00:36:02,346 This is true. It's in our letters. 766 00:36:02,347 --> 00:36:04,222 There was a rainbow that went from one gate... 767 00:36:04,223 --> 00:36:07,642 side of the gate to the other side of the gate, 768 00:36:07,643 --> 00:36:11,104 and I thought that was the most miraculous sign that this is... 769 00:36:11,105 --> 00:36:12,981 this is the boy that I'm supposed to be with 770 00:36:12,982 --> 00:36:14,566 and this is... he is innocent, 771 00:36:14,567 --> 00:36:18,487 because how many times do you see a whole rainbow? 772 00:36:18,488 --> 00:36:22,491 And we saw a whole rainbow, and my friend was with me. 773 00:36:22,492 --> 00:36:24,743 He saw the rainbow too. I have a witness. 774 00:36:24,744 --> 00:36:26,119 And when Jason... 775 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,538 when I got home, I had a letter waiting for me, 776 00:36:28,539 --> 00:36:30,624 and he said, "Did you see the rainbow?" 777 00:36:30,625 --> 00:36:33,335 - At the gates of the prison. 778 00:36:33,336 --> 00:36:35,504 - It went from one side, my side on the outside, 779 00:36:35,505 --> 00:36:37,756 to the inside to him. 780 00:36:54,315 --> 00:36:56,483 - I believe in me, you know, I know what... 781 00:36:56,484 --> 00:36:58,735 I know what happened back in 2001. 782 00:36:58,736 --> 00:37:00,237 I know that I wasn't a part of it, 783 00:37:00,238 --> 00:37:02,614 and I believe strongly in... in my faith, 784 00:37:02,615 --> 00:37:04,157 in my attorneys, and in the outcome, 785 00:37:04,158 --> 00:37:06,493 but at the same time, I don't even recognize these walls. 786 00:37:06,494 --> 00:37:07,869 I don't pay attention to this, 787 00:37:07,870 --> 00:37:09,830 because if you do, you're gonna lose your mind. 788 00:37:09,831 --> 00:37:12,290 You're gonna... you're gonna go... you're gonna lose your mind. 789 00:37:12,291 --> 00:37:14,709 Recently, another guy just killed himself the other day, 790 00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:17,212 and he left a note saying that, 791 00:37:17,213 --> 00:37:19,172 "Y'all have to live around all this craziness, 792 00:37:19,173 --> 00:37:20,715 and I'm gone," 793 00:37:20,716 --> 00:37:22,551 and that's because he was focusing on it, 794 00:37:22,552 --> 00:37:23,927 but I don't. 795 00:37:23,928 --> 00:37:25,303 I don't focus on it. 796 00:37:25,304 --> 00:37:28,181 You know, I just... I just distract myself. 797 00:37:28,182 --> 00:37:29,599 I stay busy. I work on my case. 798 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,309 I have a great family, 799 00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:33,186 a lot of supporters that help me, 800 00:37:33,187 --> 00:37:35,105 so I have enough distractions. 801 00:37:35,106 --> 00:37:36,815 If I didn't have enough distractions, 802 00:37:36,816 --> 00:37:39,609 I might be in a different position. 803 00:37:39,610 --> 00:37:43,447 - How does time occur to you now in your situation? 804 00:37:43,448 --> 00:37:46,241 - Wow, that's a... that's a good... 805 00:37:46,242 --> 00:37:48,368 it... it really varies, but, you know, 806 00:37:48,369 --> 00:37:49,870 because, I'll... like, I'll forget. 807 00:37:49,871 --> 00:37:51,246 I'll literally forget, 808 00:37:51,247 --> 00:37:52,664 and then I'll look at my calendar 809 00:37:52,665 --> 00:37:54,291 or I'll hear someone say something, 810 00:37:54,292 --> 00:37:55,667 and I'm like, "Man." 811 00:37:55,668 --> 00:37:57,752 And I'll sit back, and I'll just stare at the wall, 812 00:37:57,753 --> 00:37:59,337 and I'll be like, "Man, eight days, 813 00:37:59,338 --> 00:38:02,466 seven days, six days," or whatever, and it's like... 814 00:38:02,467 --> 00:38:04,634 it's just... I must not be comprehending the fact 815 00:38:04,635 --> 00:38:06,428 that it's that close, because, you know, 816 00:38:06,429 --> 00:38:08,263 it's hard for me to say, you know what... 817 00:38:08,264 --> 00:38:10,432 like, I talk to people, "You know, in eight days, 818 00:38:10,433 --> 00:38:12,100 these people want to murder me," 819 00:38:12,101 --> 00:38:14,769 and it's just something that, it's hard for me to... 820 00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:16,188 hard for me to believe 821 00:38:16,189 --> 00:38:18,940 that the state of Texas wants to murder me in eight days. 822 00:38:21,611 --> 00:38:23,361 - And worst case scenario, 823 00:38:23,362 --> 00:38:27,324 you know exactly what is going to happen on July 1st? 824 00:38:27,325 --> 00:38:29,868 - Yeah, the execution. Mm-hmm. 825 00:38:29,869 --> 00:38:31,995 - You will be transported to Huntsville? 826 00:38:31,996 --> 00:38:34,581 - Right, the Walls Unit. - That's a death house? 827 00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:35,957 - Yes, sir. 828 00:38:35,958 --> 00:38:39,461 - And you will be checked by a medical examiner? 829 00:38:39,462 --> 00:38:42,422 - I don't... no, no medical people can be involved. 830 00:38:42,423 --> 00:38:44,007 - I think they... they have to check you 831 00:38:44,008 --> 00:38:45,842 that you are fit to be executed. 832 00:38:45,843 --> 00:38:48,345 - I've never heard that, but it might be. 833 00:38:48,346 --> 00:38:50,055 - I think it's one of these absurdities. 834 00:38:50,056 --> 00:38:51,640 If you are unconscious, for example, 835 00:38:51,641 --> 00:38:53,016 you cannot be executed. 836 00:38:53,017 --> 00:38:54,392 - Oh, yeah? 837 00:38:54,393 --> 00:38:56,102 - Or if you are stark mad or something... 838 00:38:56,103 --> 00:38:57,896 - Yeah, yeah. - They would not execute you. 839 00:38:57,897 --> 00:38:59,272 - Yeah, that is true. 840 00:38:59,273 --> 00:39:01,358 - Or if you are bleeding from a gunshot wound, 841 00:39:01,359 --> 00:39:05,362 they would not put you onto the gurney. 842 00:39:05,363 --> 00:39:07,364 - Right. 843 00:39:07,365 --> 00:39:09,366 They got to treat me first and then kill me, huh? 844 00:39:09,367 --> 00:39:11,868 - Probably, yes. (laughs) 845 00:39:11,869 --> 00:39:15,372 That's... that's kind of crazy to think about, right? 846 00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:21,461 Yeah, I just... I just can't allow myself to think. 847 00:39:21,462 --> 00:39:23,505 I can't even picture myself laying on a gurney, 848 00:39:23,506 --> 00:39:26,925 but if it happens, I'll have to deal with it, huh? 849 00:39:26,926 --> 00:39:28,677 You know, I'll have to deal with it, 850 00:39:28,678 --> 00:39:31,888 and I'll be able to watch over my mom from heaven 851 00:39:31,889 --> 00:39:34,015 with a clear conscience and be at peace. 852 00:39:34,016 --> 00:39:35,850 You know, like I said, for a long time, 853 00:39:35,851 --> 00:39:37,269 my life has been unhappy, 854 00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:41,022 so finally I can find me some peace, huh? 855 00:39:41,232 --> 00:39:42,774 - And you are at peace with yourself. 856 00:39:42,775 --> 00:39:44,150 - Now. 857 00:39:44,151 --> 00:39:45,569 - Mm-hmm. Took a long time. 858 00:39:45,570 --> 00:39:47,404 - Yes, absolutely did. 859 00:39:47,405 --> 00:39:50,115 Took a long time to realize what a man was. 860 00:39:50,116 --> 00:39:51,783 I was out there acting like a child. 861 00:39:51,784 --> 00:39:54,077 I acted like a child when I got in here at first, 862 00:39:54,078 --> 00:39:58,415 but I'm confident in... in who I am now. 863 00:40:02,211 --> 00:40:05,338 - Michael Perry, I wish you all the best. 864 00:40:05,339 --> 00:40:07,799 - Yes, thank you. 865 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,551 I don't know what's gonna happen, huh? 866 00:40:09,552 --> 00:40:12,262 We're gonna see. We're gonna find out. 867 00:40:12,263 --> 00:40:14,097 I'll find out on Monday. 868 00:40:35,369 --> 00:40:37,787 - They knew what I was telling them 869 00:40:37,788 --> 00:40:39,789 was gonna be the truth. 870 00:40:39,790 --> 00:40:43,501 I mean, I'm not gonna tell you anything that... 871 00:40:43,502 --> 00:40:46,504 I'm gonna tell you everything that's gonna happen back here. 872 00:40:46,505 --> 00:40:49,382 At 4:00, a guy's gonna come in here, 873 00:40:49,383 --> 00:40:52,135 and they're gonna fingerprint you. 874 00:40:52,136 --> 00:40:54,262 Shortly after that, 875 00:40:54,263 --> 00:40:57,265 we're gonna allow you to take a shower, 876 00:40:57,266 --> 00:40:59,934 and then we're gonna put you in free world clothes, 877 00:40:59,935 --> 00:41:02,437 let you... let you dress in free world clothes. 878 00:41:02,438 --> 00:41:05,982 Free world clothes would be clothes you and I would wear. 879 00:41:05,983 --> 00:41:11,154 5:00, 6:00, whatever your... your request for the last meal, 880 00:41:11,155 --> 00:41:12,864 they'll bring it in, 881 00:41:12,865 --> 00:41:16,826 and you'll sit there and eat your last meal. 882 00:41:16,827 --> 00:41:20,622 During that time, if you need anything else, just ask. 883 00:41:20,623 --> 00:41:24,459 You know, you need some more juice, punch, 884 00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:28,296 or whatever else we got back here, just ask. 885 00:41:28,297 --> 00:41:30,840 You know, and they... you know, 886 00:41:30,841 --> 00:41:33,426 sometimes we get strange requests. 887 00:41:33,427 --> 00:41:36,179 You know, within reason, I'm gonna get it for you. 888 00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:38,181 - Give me one of those requests. 889 00:41:38,182 --> 00:41:40,350 - Oh, one was, 890 00:41:40,351 --> 00:41:42,519 "Man, I'd sure like to smoke a doobie right now." 891 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,648 Well, that's not gonna happen, you know. 892 00:41:47,817 --> 00:41:49,776 The guy with the key, he opens the door, 893 00:41:49,777 --> 00:41:51,152 swings the door open. 894 00:41:51,153 --> 00:41:53,279 There's another correctional officer behind him 895 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,407 and another one behind me. 896 00:41:55,408 --> 00:41:58,535 So soon as he does, he follows me in, 897 00:41:58,536 --> 00:42:00,328 and then the other correctional officers 898 00:42:00,329 --> 00:42:01,871 follow right in behind him. 899 00:42:01,872 --> 00:42:04,374 So there'll be two in front of... in front of the inmate, 900 00:42:04,375 --> 00:42:06,543 and then the other three right behind him. 901 00:42:06,544 --> 00:42:08,253 I tell him jump up on the gurney, 902 00:42:08,254 --> 00:42:09,671 which then I automatic... 903 00:42:09,672 --> 00:42:12,882 - It's only a few steps from the cell. 904 00:42:12,883 --> 00:42:18,638 - I would say no more than ten steps, if that much. 905 00:42:21,183 --> 00:42:23,059 I would immediately go around to the gurney 906 00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:26,062 'cause I always took care of the left leg. 907 00:42:26,063 --> 00:42:29,274 So soon as he laid down, I took care of the left leg. 908 00:42:29,275 --> 00:42:31,693 The other person who was in front with me 909 00:42:31,694 --> 00:42:33,319 would take care of the right. 910 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,072 The... the three that fell in behind, 911 00:42:36,073 --> 00:42:39,117 one would take care of the... the right arm. 912 00:42:39,118 --> 00:42:41,953 The other one would take care of the left arm, 913 00:42:41,954 --> 00:42:45,915 and the other one would be there in case the inmate, 914 00:42:45,916 --> 00:42:47,917 once he lays down, 915 00:42:47,918 --> 00:42:50,545 if he had a response to try to get back up, 916 00:42:50,546 --> 00:42:54,132 his job was to hold... to hold his shoulders down. 917 00:42:54,133 --> 00:42:55,550 You know, you're not... 918 00:42:55,551 --> 00:42:57,802 once you're up there, you're up there, you know. 919 00:42:59,305 --> 00:43:00,680 Within that time, 920 00:43:00,681 --> 00:43:02,766 us four people would have him done. 921 00:43:02,767 --> 00:43:04,684 Probably within about 15 seconds, 922 00:43:04,685 --> 00:43:07,645 he'd be strapped down that quick, 923 00:43:07,646 --> 00:43:09,773 'cause we all knew exactly where our straps were 924 00:43:09,774 --> 00:43:11,524 and what we were supposed to do. 925 00:43:11,525 --> 00:43:15,695 The time. Do... do a process. 926 00:43:15,696 --> 00:43:17,363 We trained on it. 927 00:43:19,492 --> 00:43:21,618 It's the last time you're gonna see... 928 00:43:21,619 --> 00:43:24,412 I'm gonna see him with his eyes open, 929 00:43:24,413 --> 00:43:26,039 because after the execution's done 930 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,166 and the process went 931 00:43:28,167 --> 00:43:30,502 and then... then they call the doctor in 932 00:43:30,503 --> 00:43:34,172 to pronounce him dead, 933 00:43:34,173 --> 00:43:35,799 then everybody leaves. 934 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,302 My job begins again 'cause I have to go back in there, 935 00:43:39,303 --> 00:43:42,263 and that's... that's all... 936 00:43:42,264 --> 00:43:44,432 also kind of difficult 937 00:43:44,433 --> 00:43:49,729 because here you sit with this individual eight or ten hours, 938 00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:52,273 all day long, 939 00:43:52,274 --> 00:43:55,235 and now the last thing you're doing 940 00:43:55,236 --> 00:43:58,321 is removing those straps. 941 00:43:58,322 --> 00:43:59,864 The straps have to be removed 942 00:43:59,865 --> 00:44:03,535 and put him on another gurney for the funeral home. 943 00:44:03,536 --> 00:44:05,537 And then, you thought... 944 00:44:05,538 --> 00:44:07,747 you didn't think about none of this 945 00:44:07,748 --> 00:44:10,750 while you're doing this, the procedure. 946 00:44:10,751 --> 00:44:14,546 You know, none of this, you're... you don't keep... 947 00:44:14,547 --> 00:44:16,714 you don't put those emotions out there. 948 00:44:16,715 --> 00:44:22,428 Do you... you do the job and go home. 949 00:44:22,429 --> 00:44:27,058 - You did how many executions, roughly? 950 00:44:27,059 --> 00:44:30,812 - It was over 125, 120. 951 00:44:30,813 --> 00:44:32,522 It was somewhere over 120. 952 00:44:32,523 --> 00:44:34,023 It was a bunch. 953 00:44:34,024 --> 00:44:36,484 We got to the point to where, especially after I... 954 00:44:36,485 --> 00:44:39,863 I think I promoted to captain in '90. 955 00:44:39,864 --> 00:44:43,283 We were doing two a week, 956 00:44:43,284 --> 00:44:46,452 and that was getting tiresome. 957 00:44:46,453 --> 00:44:48,830 - And what happened to you then? 958 00:44:48,831 --> 00:44:50,456 (clears throat) 959 00:44:50,457 --> 00:44:55,962 I... back when they... 960 00:44:55,963 --> 00:44:58,256 when they brought in Karla Faye, 961 00:44:58,257 --> 00:45:00,508 I stayed back there with her. 962 00:45:00,509 --> 00:45:05,513 Now, definitely that was the first female 963 00:45:05,514 --> 00:45:08,349 that we were fixing to execute. 964 00:45:08,350 --> 00:45:12,020 I remember one thing so vividly, 965 00:45:12,021 --> 00:45:14,856 that it was an hour before, 966 00:45:14,857 --> 00:45:16,232 and I was standing there, 967 00:45:16,233 --> 00:45:17,901 and the chaplain was standing there, 968 00:45:17,902 --> 00:45:19,444 and she looked at me, and she goes, 969 00:45:19,445 --> 00:45:23,448 "Thank you, Captain Allen, for everything you've done." 970 00:45:23,449 --> 00:45:25,283 I said, "You're welcome." 971 00:45:25,284 --> 00:45:28,077 You know, that's all I could say, you know. 972 00:45:28,078 --> 00:45:29,829 What else can... what else am I gonna say? 973 00:45:29,830 --> 00:45:35,209 What, "I'm fixin' to strap you down in another hour"? 974 00:45:35,210 --> 00:45:36,794 Which we went... 975 00:45:36,795 --> 00:45:39,881 procedure and everything went just the way it was supposed to. 976 00:45:39,882 --> 00:45:42,216 You know, she was pronounced dead. 977 00:45:42,217 --> 00:45:44,010 I went back in there, and I took the gurn... 978 00:45:44,011 --> 00:45:45,470 took the straps off, 979 00:45:45,471 --> 00:45:47,430 put her, you know, on the gurney and that stuff. 980 00:45:47,431 --> 00:45:50,183 We locked everything up, went about our business, 981 00:45:50,184 --> 00:45:53,102 and... and everything was fine. 982 00:45:53,103 --> 00:45:54,771 I had a little shop in the back. 983 00:45:54,772 --> 00:45:57,899 It was 6:00, and the news come on over the radio, 984 00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:59,317 and it started again, 985 00:45:59,318 --> 00:46:04,948 and for some reason, just out of the blue, 986 00:46:04,949 --> 00:46:10,787 hearing it, it triggered me seeing her hurt, 987 00:46:10,788 --> 00:46:12,163 and I just started shaking. 988 00:46:12,164 --> 00:46:14,582 I don't know what's wrong, and then, it was... 989 00:46:14,583 --> 00:46:16,000 - How badly did you shake? 990 00:46:16,001 --> 00:46:18,544 - It was... it was... it was a shake. 991 00:46:18,545 --> 00:46:19,921 It was a shake. 992 00:46:19,922 --> 00:46:22,548 Like, I couldn't... why am I shaking? 993 00:46:22,549 --> 00:46:23,925 And then I could see my... 994 00:46:23,926 --> 00:46:28,304 I was sweating and in tears. 995 00:46:28,305 --> 00:46:31,766 All of a sudden, man, this... this is hurtin'. 996 00:46:31,767 --> 00:46:34,477 I remembered her... this was two days afterwards. 997 00:46:34,478 --> 00:46:36,604 I remembered her execution. 998 00:46:36,605 --> 00:46:38,481 Hers wasn't no different than anybody else, 999 00:46:38,482 --> 00:46:41,859 but it was hers, 1000 00:46:41,860 --> 00:46:47,573 and then I started actually visualizing the other inmates 1001 00:46:47,574 --> 00:46:52,328 as... you asked me, "Did you look in their eyes when they're"... 1002 00:46:52,329 --> 00:46:53,997 I could see 'em. 1003 00:46:53,998 --> 00:46:57,583 I could actually see 'em in their holding cell again, 1004 00:46:57,584 --> 00:47:00,336 you know, one right after another, 1005 00:47:00,337 --> 00:47:05,800 and it seemed like there was just... 1006 00:47:05,801 --> 00:47:07,552 My wife goes, "What's wrong with you?" 1007 00:47:07,553 --> 00:47:09,012 And I don't know. 1008 00:47:09,013 --> 00:47:11,222 I need to talk to somebody. 1009 00:47:11,223 --> 00:47:13,933 And the first person I could think of to call was Carroll, 1010 00:47:13,934 --> 00:47:15,685 Chaplain Pickett, 1011 00:47:15,686 --> 00:47:17,103 and he come over to the house, 1012 00:47:17,104 --> 00:47:22,025 and we sat on that old swing, and I started coming down, 1013 00:47:22,026 --> 00:47:23,860 and I... he says, "What's wrong?" 1014 00:47:23,861 --> 00:47:25,528 And I told him, 1015 00:47:25,529 --> 00:47:27,280 and then I looked at Carroll, and I said, 1016 00:47:27,281 --> 00:47:29,323 "I can't do it no more. 1017 00:47:29,324 --> 00:47:32,201 "That's it. I'm... I'm done. 1018 00:47:32,202 --> 00:47:36,873 I can't... I can't go back there any more." 1019 00:47:36,874 --> 00:47:40,752 - Could it be that you thought that this was not yourself 1020 00:47:40,753 --> 00:47:46,007 but maybe it was your real self that moment? 1021 00:47:46,008 --> 00:47:47,884 - That's a good possibility. 1022 00:47:49,887 --> 00:47:51,471 - What's really deep inside of you... 1023 00:47:51,472 --> 00:47:52,847 - Yes. 1024 00:47:52,848 --> 00:47:55,641 - Came out. 1025 00:47:55,642 --> 00:47:57,977 - That's a good... that's very... 1026 00:47:57,978 --> 00:48:01,022 I mean, that's... I mean, from that point on, 1027 00:48:01,023 --> 00:48:05,526 I mean, I've had a different outlook in life. 1028 00:48:05,527 --> 00:48:08,404 If executions was the law, 1029 00:48:08,405 --> 00:48:11,616 then I was gonna make sure that it was done professionally, 1030 00:48:11,617 --> 00:48:13,785 with integrity. 1031 00:48:13,786 --> 00:48:20,249 After Karla... and I was pro capital punishment. 1032 00:48:20,250 --> 00:48:22,752 After Karla Faye and after all this, 1033 00:48:22,753 --> 00:48:25,213 until this day, 11 years later... 1034 00:48:27,091 --> 00:48:30,051 No, sir. 1035 00:48:30,052 --> 00:48:32,720 I don't... nobody has the right to take another life. 1036 00:48:32,721 --> 00:48:37,391 I don't care if it's the law. 1037 00:48:37,392 --> 00:48:40,561 And it's so easy to change the law. 1038 00:49:03,293 --> 00:49:05,753 - I... I don't want to sound, um... 1039 00:49:07,131 --> 00:49:10,925 Like a evil person or... 1040 00:49:10,926 --> 00:49:12,677 but I am so glad I went to the execution. 1041 00:49:12,678 --> 00:49:14,095 I really am. 1042 00:49:14,096 --> 00:49:17,473 I fought with my... with myself about going. 1043 00:49:17,474 --> 00:49:21,602 I reserved this... the seat so I could be there, 1044 00:49:21,603 --> 00:49:23,688 but I'm glad I went. 1045 00:49:23,689 --> 00:49:25,064 I'm really glad I went. 1046 00:49:25,065 --> 00:49:27,608 It... it really did something to me. 1047 00:49:27,609 --> 00:49:32,113 - Yeah. What did it do? 1048 00:49:32,114 --> 00:49:33,614 - I don't... I don't know what... 1049 00:49:33,615 --> 00:49:36,409 I don't know what happened, 1050 00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:38,953 but I... immediately after the execution, 1051 00:49:38,954 --> 00:49:41,122 I felt like a... 1052 00:49:41,123 --> 00:49:44,417 that saying, a huge weight had been lifted. 1053 00:49:44,418 --> 00:49:47,086 I actually could take a deep breath. 1054 00:49:47,087 --> 00:49:52,383 My heart didn't ache as much. 1055 00:49:52,384 --> 00:49:53,759 I remember walking in 1056 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,804 and thinking, "This looks like a boy." 1057 00:49:56,805 --> 00:49:59,015 I had built this huge monster, 1058 00:49:59,016 --> 00:50:05,354 evil, you know, murdering monster in my head, 1059 00:50:05,355 --> 00:50:07,273 and he was just a boy. 1060 00:50:08,901 --> 00:50:11,152 He was just a boy laying on that gurney. 1061 00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:24,081 When I walked in, he looked at me, 1062 00:50:24,082 --> 00:50:26,626 and he looked away, and he did a double take. 1063 00:50:26,627 --> 00:50:28,836 Same thing Jason Burkett did in court. 1064 00:50:28,837 --> 00:50:30,254 I look like my mom. 1065 00:50:30,255 --> 00:50:32,131 I look a lot like my mother. 1066 00:50:33,425 --> 00:50:35,509 - And what did he say? 1067 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:37,178 - He forgave us. 1068 00:50:37,179 --> 00:50:39,555 He forgave us. 1069 00:50:39,556 --> 00:50:40,932 Yeah. 1070 00:50:40,933 --> 00:50:42,767 And I was upset when I walked in. 1071 00:50:42,768 --> 00:50:44,644 I was crying. 1072 00:50:44,645 --> 00:50:46,520 You know, our whole... my whole family, 1073 00:50:46,521 --> 00:50:49,523 we didn't want to see someone die, you know. 1074 00:50:49,524 --> 00:50:52,526 No one should have to do... go through that, 1075 00:50:52,527 --> 00:50:55,905 but we were there for my mother, you know, and my brother, 1076 00:50:55,906 --> 00:50:58,950 and we were crying, and when he said he forgave us... 1077 00:50:58,951 --> 00:51:00,326 - For what? 1078 00:51:00,327 --> 00:51:02,536 - For the atrocity brought against him. 1079 00:51:12,839 --> 00:51:16,676 And then he said he's ready to go. 1080 00:51:16,677 --> 00:51:19,512 I heard his mother cry, 1081 00:51:19,513 --> 00:51:23,849 and they gave him the injection. 1082 00:51:23,850 --> 00:51:28,854 He gasped for air four times. 1083 00:51:41,702 --> 00:51:43,494 I watched his shirt thump, 1084 00:51:43,495 --> 00:51:45,871 you know, his heart beating on his shirt. 1085 00:51:45,872 --> 00:51:50,167 I watched it till it stopped, and it stopped at 6:14. 1086 00:51:50,168 --> 00:51:53,045 One tear fell down his eye, one tear. 1087 00:51:54,589 --> 00:51:57,800 And he was gone, and it was over. 1088 00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:06,267 - And the prospect of someone 1089 00:52:06,268 --> 00:52:09,228 who is gonna be locked away for life without parole, 1090 00:52:09,229 --> 00:52:10,688 would that satisfy... 1091 00:52:10,689 --> 00:52:12,148 - Definitely. - Yes. 1092 00:52:12,149 --> 00:52:13,566 - Definitely. 1093 00:52:13,567 --> 00:52:18,154 - So it would be definitely an alternative, 1094 00:52:18,155 --> 00:52:21,365 because death penalty sounds a little bit too much 1095 00:52:21,366 --> 00:52:24,076 like old Testament, the wrath of God. 1096 00:52:24,077 --> 00:52:25,453 - An eye for an eye. 1097 00:52:25,454 --> 00:52:29,123 - Jesus probably would not have been an advocate of... 1098 00:52:29,124 --> 00:52:30,583 - Probably not. 1099 00:52:30,584 --> 00:52:32,918 Probably not. 1100 00:52:32,919 --> 00:52:36,422 But some people just don't deserve to live. 1101 00:52:39,301 --> 00:52:41,552 - Can I say something? - Please. 1102 00:52:41,553 --> 00:52:43,637 - I know on July the 1st is when they... 1103 00:52:43,638 --> 00:52:47,808 they executed Michael, 1104 00:52:47,809 --> 00:52:51,437 and... and I knew Michael pretty well. 1105 00:52:51,438 --> 00:52:52,813 - Yeah. 1106 00:52:52,814 --> 00:52:54,190 - And I kept up with... 1107 00:52:54,191 --> 00:52:56,859 I have every kind of clipping and website thing 1108 00:52:56,860 --> 00:52:58,611 I have on him and Jason. 1109 00:52:58,612 --> 00:53:00,946 I have, like, a whole locker box full. 1110 00:53:00,947 --> 00:53:04,283 So I know as much about him as anybody, 1111 00:53:04,284 --> 00:53:07,620 and Michael was just... just like Jason. 1112 00:53:07,621 --> 00:53:09,747 They were both young, 1113 00:53:09,748 --> 00:53:12,708 and whatever they did or didn't do, I don't know. 1114 00:53:12,709 --> 00:53:16,212 I was not there, but Michael was just a... 1115 00:53:16,213 --> 00:53:22,009 was just a young... a young kid, and I know he... 1116 00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:25,638 I know when they executed him, I know how he... 1117 00:53:25,639 --> 00:53:29,934 I know his last words and everything else, 1118 00:53:29,935 --> 00:53:36,190 and I know, by executing Michael, 1119 00:53:36,191 --> 00:53:39,026 I don't think it brought any of those people back, 1120 00:53:39,027 --> 00:53:41,320 and I don't think it deterred anything. 1121 00:53:41,321 --> 00:53:43,531 I... I don't think it deterred anybody out there. 1122 00:53:43,532 --> 00:53:47,159 As much publicized as it was, it did not deter anything, 1123 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,578 and I really do not believe that it solved anything 1124 00:53:49,579 --> 00:53:53,916 by taking another life, and it hurt me. 1125 00:53:53,917 --> 00:53:56,168 When it come time for his execution, 1126 00:53:56,169 --> 00:53:59,130 I knew it was gonna be about 6:00, 1127 00:53:59,131 --> 00:54:01,632 usually a few minutes after 6:00 P.M., 1128 00:54:01,633 --> 00:54:06,262 and I was on my knees at my bunk for Michael, 1129 00:54:06,263 --> 00:54:08,681 praying for Michael, 1130 00:54:08,682 --> 00:54:12,184 and a feeling come over me 1131 00:54:12,185 --> 00:54:15,312 right about ten... five or ten minutes after 6:00, 1132 00:54:15,313 --> 00:54:17,982 a feeling come over me that's hard... 1133 00:54:17,983 --> 00:54:19,567 very, very hard to explain. 1134 00:54:19,568 --> 00:54:23,237 It was like I felt the loss of... 1135 00:54:23,238 --> 00:54:26,365 of what used to be my son's best friend. 1136 00:54:26,366 --> 00:54:28,742 I felt... I felt that. 1137 00:54:28,743 --> 00:54:32,329 I felt that pain whenever they killed him. 1138 00:54:34,833 --> 00:54:36,208 But I just wish those fam... 1139 00:54:36,209 --> 00:54:38,043 the family members would know that, 1140 00:54:38,044 --> 00:54:42,256 how much that I... I hurt for their loss. 1141 00:54:42,257 --> 00:54:44,550 That's very important, and Michael never, never... 1142 00:54:44,551 --> 00:54:45,968 that's what upset them, 1143 00:54:45,969 --> 00:54:48,846 'cause Michael never tried to reach out to 'em. 1144 00:54:48,847 --> 00:54:50,931 I wished I could and say I'm sorry. 1145 00:54:50,932 --> 00:54:52,183 - Yeah. 1146 00:56:02,754 --> 00:56:04,880 Melyssa, let me address one thing. 1147 00:56:04,881 --> 00:56:07,633 Among death row inmates, 1148 00:56:07,634 --> 00:56:12,429 there's such a phenomenon like death row groupies, 1149 00:56:12,430 --> 00:56:17,935 the same way rock stars have groupies, 1150 00:56:17,936 --> 00:56:19,770 and you have seen women like that. 1151 00:56:19,771 --> 00:56:21,772 - I have seen women like that, in fairness. 1152 00:56:21,773 --> 00:56:24,275 I've also seen women who are married to death row inmates 1153 00:56:24,276 --> 00:56:27,319 in truly committed relationships 1154 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,947 that I believe are not disingenuous 1155 00:56:29,948 --> 00:56:32,449 and I believe come from their heart. 1156 00:56:32,450 --> 00:56:34,785 You know, some people are just supposed to be together, 1157 00:56:34,786 --> 00:56:37,830 whether there's a cage and lawman between you. 1158 00:56:37,831 --> 00:56:39,248 I believe that. 1159 00:56:39,249 --> 00:56:40,624 I mean, I do believe that 1160 00:56:40,625 --> 00:56:42,793 there's a fair amount of women who want attention, 1161 00:56:42,794 --> 00:56:46,505 who want media coverage, who seek out infamous men. 1162 00:56:46,506 --> 00:56:48,966 I mean, like Scott Peterson gets a hundred letters a day 1163 00:56:48,967 --> 00:56:50,342 on death row in California. 1164 00:56:50,343 --> 00:56:51,719 That's ridiculous. 1165 00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:53,137 - He murdered his pregnant wife. 1166 00:56:53,138 --> 00:56:54,513 - Yes. 1167 00:56:54,514 --> 00:56:56,807 - Is that correct, that case? Yeah, a good... looking man. 1168 00:56:56,808 --> 00:56:58,183 - Good looking man. 1169 00:56:58,184 --> 00:57:03,022 - However, Jason is not an ugly man either. 1170 00:57:03,023 --> 00:57:05,149 Describe him to us, please. 1171 00:57:05,150 --> 00:57:07,735 - Like, physically? - Yes. 1172 00:57:07,736 --> 00:57:10,237 You only have touched his hand. 1173 00:57:10,238 --> 00:57:12,197 Describe his hands to us. 1174 00:57:15,035 --> 00:57:16,535 - They're a lot bigger than mine. 1175 00:57:16,536 --> 00:57:18,996 I'll start there. I have really tiny hands. 1176 00:57:18,997 --> 00:57:21,665 He always... Jason, he holds hands funny, 1177 00:57:21,666 --> 00:57:24,126 and he always holds my hand kind of like that 1178 00:57:24,127 --> 00:57:28,088 as opposed to intertwined, so he holds on to me, 1179 00:57:28,089 --> 00:57:30,758 and I just know that his hands are massive, 1180 00:57:30,759 --> 00:57:33,761 because he wears a ring size 11. 1181 00:57:33,762 --> 00:57:37,222 Our wedding rings, it's an 111/2, 1182 00:57:37,223 --> 00:57:41,226 and I wear a 4, so he can totally cup my hand. 1183 00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:47,524 - Were you allowed to touch each other? 1184 00:57:47,525 --> 00:57:49,151 Hug each other? 1185 00:57:49,152 --> 00:57:50,819 Exchange rings? 1186 00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:54,198 - No. 1187 00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:56,325 I still can't get a ring. 1188 00:57:56,326 --> 00:57:59,912 - And you were separated by a glass wall or... 1189 00:57:59,913 --> 00:58:01,705 - Just like this right here, 1190 00:58:01,706 --> 00:58:03,415 except for we had a phone, 1191 00:58:03,416 --> 00:58:07,127 and it was solid right here, solid glass. 1192 00:58:07,128 --> 00:58:10,381 - But when she comes for visits, are you allowed to hug her? 1193 00:58:10,382 --> 00:58:11,965 - I am now. 1194 00:58:11,966 --> 00:58:13,926 After we married, I'm allowed to hug her. 1195 00:58:13,927 --> 00:58:17,388 I'm allowed to give her a kiss before and after visit. 1196 00:58:17,389 --> 00:58:19,264 We're allowed to hold hands on the table 1197 00:58:19,265 --> 00:58:20,891 and have contact and speak. 1198 00:58:20,892 --> 00:58:24,395 - But of course... of course with a guard present. 1199 00:58:24,396 --> 00:58:27,231 - As close as you are to me. 1200 00:58:27,232 --> 00:58:29,108 - And you would like to have children. 1201 00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:30,484 - Yes, sir. 1202 00:58:30,485 --> 00:58:32,695 - How would that happen? 1203 00:58:32,696 --> 00:58:35,072 How... what sort of option is there? 1204 00:58:35,073 --> 00:58:37,282 - I want 50 children. She wants 2. 1205 00:58:37,283 --> 00:58:40,119 So, I mean, we have to work on this. 1206 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,372 I want children for different reasons. 1207 00:58:43,373 --> 00:58:46,667 I want children with her specifically because I love her. 1208 00:58:46,668 --> 00:58:48,168 I want to be with her. 1209 00:58:48,169 --> 00:58:53,590 I want to give her something that she'll always have with me. 1210 00:58:53,591 --> 00:58:55,634 - I'm under the impression seeing you now 1211 00:58:55,635 --> 00:59:00,097 that you became pregnant only a few days 1212 00:59:00,098 --> 00:59:03,934 after we met your husband. 1213 00:59:03,935 --> 00:59:06,645 - You guys met him on the 18th of october? 1214 00:59:06,646 --> 00:59:08,480 - I think so, yeah, something like that. 1215 00:59:08,481 --> 00:59:11,108 - Yeah, I believe my baby was made 1216 00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:14,153 on the 23rd of october, approximately. 1217 00:59:14,154 --> 00:59:15,654 - Right after we saw your husband. 1218 00:59:15,655 --> 00:59:18,991 - 23rd or 24th. 1219 00:59:18,992 --> 00:59:21,994 - You went into action. 1220 00:59:21,995 --> 00:59:26,123 (laughs) So to speak. 1221 00:59:26,124 --> 00:59:30,085 - And the father of the baby is your husband. 1222 00:59:30,086 --> 00:59:32,629 - Legally, will be Jason, yes. 1223 00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:35,924 - And it is Jason biologically, legally... 1224 00:59:35,925 --> 00:59:38,844 - I can't say that. - In every single sense. 1225 00:59:38,845 --> 00:59:43,599 Since you are not allowed to do more than touching hands, 1226 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,935 how do you become pregnant? 1227 00:59:46,936 --> 00:59:48,479 There's a mystery. 1228 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,481 - Yeah, it's kind of a mystery. 1229 00:59:50,482 --> 00:59:53,317 There's people involved that I don't want to mention. 1230 00:59:53,318 --> 00:59:57,154 - No, we would not imply anyone, 1231 00:59:57,155 --> 01:00:00,157 but I have to speculate. 1232 01:00:00,158 --> 01:00:06,038 Is there such a thing like contraband entering prisons, 1233 01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:11,251 like, let's say, drugs, cell phones, illegal messages, 1234 01:00:11,252 --> 01:00:14,588 there seems to be something the other way round, 1235 01:00:14,589 --> 01:00:18,926 contraband from the prison to the outside, 1236 01:00:18,927 --> 01:00:21,053 and you became pregnant. 1237 01:00:21,054 --> 01:00:22,429 - Well, we... 1238 01:00:22,430 --> 01:00:23,889 - Can we formulate it like this? 1239 01:00:23,890 --> 01:00:28,393 - We... we prefer to say that I was artificially inseminated. 1240 01:00:40,615 --> 01:00:44,284 - Do you have a name for the boy? 1241 01:00:44,285 --> 01:00:46,620 - Well, we've... we came up with Easton. 1242 01:00:46,621 --> 01:00:49,373 Easton Aaron. 1243 01:00:49,374 --> 01:00:51,375 - Can you show us? I think there's a face. 1244 01:00:51,376 --> 01:00:54,044 Can you point it out? - It's right there. 1245 01:00:54,045 --> 01:00:57,381 If you actually can see it close enough, 1246 01:00:57,382 --> 01:01:00,342 you can tell my baby has my strong jaw. 1247 01:01:13,898 --> 01:01:16,066 You live on through your children, 1248 01:01:16,067 --> 01:01:18,235 and the love that you put into them 1249 01:01:18,236 --> 01:01:20,320 projects to the world. 1250 01:01:20,321 --> 01:01:21,697 My parents are both gone, 1251 01:01:21,698 --> 01:01:23,365 and I had this big hole in my heart, 1252 01:01:23,366 --> 01:01:26,410 and I realized that what you do is, 1253 01:01:26,411 --> 01:01:30,372 you take all of that love, and you give it back. 1254 01:01:32,250 --> 01:01:34,793 I mean, nothing else matters. 1255 01:02:05,783 --> 01:02:09,828 - I actually have this shirt tacked up on my wall. 1256 01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:12,623 - Can I see the shirt? Can you turn it around? 1257 01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:21,882 - I just make sure... and somebody told me about the... 1258 01:02:21,883 --> 01:02:24,051 the live your dash, 1259 01:02:24,052 --> 01:02:27,429 and that's really, after all this... 1260 01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:29,348 that I went through and quit and everything, 1261 01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:33,101 then I heard the story telling me live your dash. 1262 01:02:33,102 --> 01:02:35,562 How do you... how are you gonna live your dash? 1263 01:02:35,563 --> 01:02:36,939 And I didn't understand. 1264 01:02:36,940 --> 01:02:38,523 "What are you talking about 'dash'?" 1265 01:02:38,524 --> 01:02:40,943 It's on your tombstone. 1266 01:02:40,944 --> 01:02:43,070 You got your birth date, 1267 01:02:43,071 --> 01:02:45,238 and you got the day that you decease, 1268 01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:47,074 and you got that little dash in the middle. 1269 01:02:47,075 --> 01:02:49,660 That's your life right there. 1270 01:02:49,661 --> 01:02:51,995 That's your... that's everything between 1271 01:02:51,996 --> 01:02:54,331 from the time you was born from the time you die. 1272 01:02:54,332 --> 01:02:56,458 How are you gonna live your dash? 1273 01:02:56,459 --> 01:02:58,585 And that's where I'm at now. 1274 01:02:58,586 --> 01:03:03,340 I'm gonna live my dash and make sure that everything, 1275 01:03:03,341 --> 01:03:07,761 try to make everything right for the family, everybody. 1276 01:03:07,762 --> 01:03:12,391 Hold still and watch the birds. 1277 01:03:12,392 --> 01:03:15,769 And you know, once you get up into your life like that 1278 01:03:15,770 --> 01:03:18,647 and once you feel good about your life, 1279 01:03:18,648 --> 01:03:23,068 you under... you do start watching what the birds do, you know, 1280 01:03:23,069 --> 01:03:25,237 what the ducks are doing, like, the hummingbirds. 1281 01:03:25,238 --> 01:03:27,531 Wow, there's so many of them.