1
00:00:16,683 --> 00:00:18,742
Hi. It's me.

2
00:00:18,818 --> 00:00:21,412
Oh, we're not ready yet?

3
00:00:21,488 --> 00:00:22,853
Hi.

4
00:00:22,922 --> 00:00:24,617
It's me, Jesse.

5
00:00:24,691 --> 00:00:25,783
Are we there?

6
00:00:25,859 --> 00:00:27,622
Good. We're there.

7
00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:28,956
Well, this afternoon,

8
00:00:29,029 --> 00:00:32,123
after a very lousy sketch
about yo-yoing,

9
00:00:32,198 --> 00:00:34,894
I figure we'll, for lack of
anything better to do,

10
00:00:34,968 --> 00:00:38,267
we'll take it towards a more
serious side right about now.

11
00:00:38,338 --> 00:00:43,332
And we're going to conduct
an interview with

12
00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:46,868
Arnold Friedman, my father.

13
00:00:46,946 --> 00:00:51,144
I still feel like I knew
my father very well.

14
00:00:51,217 --> 00:00:54,550
I don't think that just because
there were things in his life

15
00:00:54,621 --> 00:00:56,782
that were private and
secret and shameful

16
00:00:56,856 --> 00:01:01,122
that that means that
the father who I knew

17
00:01:01,194 --> 00:01:05,221
and the things I knew about him
were in any way not real.

18
00:01:13,473 --> 00:01:17,375
They're gonna put me
in the movies

19
00:01:18,878 --> 00:01:23,212
They're gonna make
a big star out of me

20
00:01:23,283 --> 00:01:28,653
We'll make a film about a man
that's sad and lonely

21
00:01:28,721 --> 00:01:33,818
And all I got to do
is act naturally

22
00:01:33,893 --> 00:01:39,195
Well, I'll bet you I'm
a- gonna be a big star

23
00:01:39,265 --> 00:01:43,964
Might win an Oscar,
you can't never tell

24
00:01:45,171 --> 00:01:49,699
The movies gonna
make me a big star

25
00:01:49,776 --> 00:01:55,214
'Cause I can play
the part so well

26
00:01:55,281 --> 00:01:59,547
Well, I hope you come
to see me in the movies

27
00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:04,950
Then I know that you
will plainly see

28
00:02:06,192 --> 00:02:10,629
The biggest fool that's
ever hit the big time

29
00:02:10,697 --> 00:02:15,862
And all I got to do
is act naturally

30
00:02:20,507 --> 00:02:23,237
Arnold liked pictures.

31
00:02:23,309 --> 00:02:24,776
I mean, that's, let's face it.

32
00:02:24,844 --> 00:02:26,175
He liked pictures.

33
00:02:26,246 --> 00:02:27,543
Well, we're here.

34
00:02:27,614 --> 00:02:29,912
This is it, the whole
family assembled.

35
00:02:29,983 --> 00:02:33,510
Everybody in
Great Neck, New York.

36
00:02:44,831 --> 00:02:47,664
We had three sons.

37
00:02:47,734 --> 00:02:50,601
David, being the oldest

38
00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:53,400
had a lot of responsibility
when he was young.

39
00:02:54,874 --> 00:02:59,174
Seth was an outright rebel.

40
00:03:00,780 --> 00:03:04,307
And somehow, Jesse
was just like the

41
00:03:04,384 --> 00:03:07,080
the one that keeps
trying to catch up

42
00:03:07,153 --> 00:03:09,053
and doesn't quite make it.

43
00:03:12,392 --> 00:03:16,158
I have very good memories
of the, of my, well,

44
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,898
I have very good memories
of my childhood.

45
00:03:21,067 --> 00:03:22,659
I had a great time growing up.

46
00:03:22,735 --> 00:03:26,296
I had a great time
because of my friends.

47
00:03:26,372 --> 00:03:29,341
And my father was great.

48
00:03:29,409 --> 00:03:31,604
I mean, he may not have
been the best father,

49
00:03:31,678 --> 00:03:36,877
but he went to
Columbia University.

50
00:03:36,950 --> 00:03:39,885
And then when he graduated,
he went to the Catskills

51
00:03:39,953 --> 00:03:41,648
to play in his band.

52
00:03:44,657 --> 00:03:46,284
The Jazzbo Mambo

53
00:03:46,359 --> 00:03:47,883
With a boogie beat

54
00:03:47,961 --> 00:03:51,556
Is the newest dance
on 52nd Street

55
00:03:51,631 --> 00:03:54,566
The band was called Arnito Rey
and his Orchestra.

56
00:03:54,634 --> 00:03:56,829
My father's name
was Arnold Friedman.

57
00:03:56,903 --> 00:03:59,167
This was in the late
40's and early '50s.

58
00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:00,331
So he played Latin music.

59
00:04:00,406 --> 00:04:01,600
It was very big at the time,

60
00:04:01,674 --> 00:04:03,835
and so he changed
his name to Arnito Rey.

61
00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:08,006
We'll do a Jazzbo Mambo
8 to the bar

62
00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:09,173
I don't know.

63
00:04:09,249 --> 00:04:10,341
My dad was a cool guy, you know?

64
00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:12,043
He was a schoolteacher.

65
00:04:12,118 --> 00:04:16,282
And I think that the other kids
liked him, and he liked kids.

66
00:04:16,356 --> 00:04:19,052
But he didn't like spending
a lot of time with his wife,

67
00:04:19,125 --> 00:04:22,219
so he would teach high
school during the day

68
00:04:22,295 --> 00:04:24,422
and then after school, he would
come home and teach

69
00:04:24,497 --> 00:04:27,591
piano lessons and later computer
lessons in the house.

70
00:04:29,068 --> 00:04:30,865
And that was, of course, more
time he didn't have to spend

71
00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:32,837
with his wife.

72
00:04:32,905 --> 00:04:36,306
I'm not that anxious to talk
about his father,

73
00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:40,107
because, you know,
we were divorced, and

74
00:04:42,315 --> 00:04:45,443
But his father, he would,

75
00:04:45,518 --> 00:04:47,816
I don't really want
to talk about it.

76
00:04:47,887 --> 00:04:50,549
In case anybody didn't know,
I'm the father of this family.

77
00:04:50,623 --> 00:04:51,920
I'm never in the movies.

78
00:04:51,991 --> 00:04:53,253
Never see me in any
of the pictures,

79
00:04:53,326 --> 00:04:54,554
but I really am the father.

80
00:04:54,627 --> 00:04:55,719
And we're all gathered
together

81
00:04:55,795 --> 00:04:57,592
while David is messing up
the camera here.

82
00:04:57,664 --> 00:05:00,861
Now he's taking a good movie
and zooming in and out.

83
00:05:00,933 --> 00:05:02,696
When you see me on this,
you're gonna say

84
00:05:02,769 --> 00:05:05,294
Okay, shut it.

85
00:05:05,371 --> 00:05:09,307
He died of a surprise heart
attack about 5 years ago.

86
00:05:09,375 --> 00:05:12,139
And it was very, very sad.

87
00:05:12,211 --> 00:05:15,044
He was, you know,

88
00:05:15,114 --> 00:05:18,880
selfless, altruistic.

89
00:05:18,951 --> 00:05:21,818
But in the end, he wasn't
together with your mom?

90
00:05:21,888 --> 00:05:23,685
He wasn't together
with my mother at the end.

91
00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:26,418
And when did they make
the decision not to be together?

92
00:05:26,492 --> 00:05:28,892
Long before he died?

93
00:05:28,961 --> 00:05:30,826
Couple years before his death.

94
00:05:36,402 --> 00:05:38,302
There's a lot I,

95
00:05:38,371 --> 00:05:41,636
well, whatever.

96
00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:44,506
There's some things I don't
want to talk about.

97
00:06:17,310 --> 00:06:20,711
Well, this is private,
so if you don't,

98
00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:22,270
if you're not me,

99
00:06:22,348 --> 00:06:23,906
then you really shouldn't
be watching this,

100
00:06:23,983 --> 00:06:26,383
because this is supposed to be
a private situation

101
00:06:26,452 --> 00:06:28,079
between me and me.

102
00:06:28,154 --> 00:06:31,646
This is between me now
and me in the future.

103
00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:32,816
So turn it off.

104
00:06:32,892 --> 00:06:33,984
Don't watch this.

105
00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,324
This is private.

106
00:06:41,934 --> 00:06:46,200
If you're the fucking,
oh, God, the cops.

107
00:06:46,272 --> 00:06:48,638
And if you're
the fucking cops,

108
00:06:48,708 --> 00:06:50,938
go fuck yourselves,

109
00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:52,944
because you're full of shit.

110
00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:59,946
Back in 1984, US Customs had
seized some child pornography,

111
00:07:00,019 --> 00:07:02,249
addressed from
the Netherlands,

112
00:07:02,321 --> 00:07:05,119
in the mail to Arnold Friedman.

113
00:07:05,191 --> 00:07:07,716
Now, he never got that
piece of mail,

114
00:07:07,794 --> 00:07:10,854
but his name was
forwarded on to us.

115
00:07:10,930 --> 00:07:14,366
So what we would do then
would be to initiate

116
00:07:14,434 --> 00:07:16,732
a correspondence with
Arnold in the hopes

117
00:07:16,803 --> 00:07:21,035
that we can determine if he is
in fact willing to violate

118
00:07:21,107 --> 00:07:26,135
the statute again about mailing
or receiving child pornography.

119
00:07:26,212 --> 00:07:31,309
"Dear Stan, the book is
Joe, 14, and his uncle.

120
00:07:31,384 --> 00:07:36,617
I think I'd like you to send me
something, sort of good faith,

121
00:07:36,689 --> 00:07:39,089
and I will forward this rather
precious book to you.

122
00:07:39,158 --> 00:07:40,716
Thanks, Arnie. "

123
00:07:43,196 --> 00:07:46,222
See, it's very hard
to believe that

124
00:07:46,299 --> 00:07:52,829
this so-called "good
marriage" was so disturbed.

125
00:07:52,905 --> 00:07:57,308
He sent him these pictures,
and he sent him a note

126
00:07:57,376 --> 00:08:00,743
that I remember, because
the lawyer got the note.

127
00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:03,247
And then he wrote, "Enjoy. "

128
00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:11,079
Since he had sent
the magazine,

129
00:08:11,157 --> 00:08:12,681
he was always asking
for it back.

130
00:08:12,758 --> 00:08:16,387
So I asked the prosecutors,
"Let's grant him his wish.

131
00:08:16,462 --> 00:08:18,089
He wants his magazine back. "

132
00:08:18,164 --> 00:08:21,361
I dressed up as a mail carrier,
knocked on his door,

133
00:08:21,434 --> 00:08:23,368
asked him if he was
Arnold Friedman.

134
00:08:23,436 --> 00:08:24,869
He replied he was.

135
00:08:24,937 --> 00:08:26,768
And I said, "I have
a package for you.

136
00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:28,466
Sign right here. "

137
00:08:28,541 --> 00:08:30,338
He did.

138
00:08:30,409 --> 00:08:32,707
About an hour later,
we went back.

139
00:08:32,778 --> 00:08:36,339
We would give him some
time with the magazine.

140
00:08:36,415 --> 00:08:37,643
I'm dressed now.

141
00:08:37,717 --> 00:08:40,584
I just put a blue suit jacket
over the carrier's uniform.

142
00:08:40,653 --> 00:08:44,384
And I told him, "I have a search
warrant for child pornography. "

143
00:08:44,457 --> 00:08:47,187
He says, "There's nothin'
like that here. "

144
00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:48,921
And I said,
"You don't recognize me?"

145
00:08:48,995 --> 00:08:50,826
I'd just been at
his door an hour ago.

146
00:08:50,897 --> 00:08:52,262
He goes, "No. "

147
00:08:52,331 --> 00:08:54,993
And I took off my jacket, and I
said, "Now do you recognize me?"

148
00:08:55,067 --> 00:09:00,334
"Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.
The magazine is upstairs. "

149
00:09:00,406 --> 00:09:02,533
So we went up to his bedroom.

150
00:09:02,608 --> 00:09:05,202
In the top dresser door
was the open magazine.

151
00:09:06,746 --> 00:09:08,577
Well, he thought we would take
the magazine and leave,

152
00:09:08,648 --> 00:09:10,639
and I said, "No, we have
a search warrant.

153
00:09:10,716 --> 00:09:14,083
We're gonna search the whole
house for child pornography. "

154
00:09:17,189 --> 00:09:20,818
And around that time
his wife showed up.

155
00:09:20,893 --> 00:09:24,124
I thought they were
searching, like, for

156
00:09:24,196 --> 00:09:26,187
marijuana or something.

157
00:09:26,265 --> 00:09:28,028
I didn't know what they
were searching for,

158
00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:29,567
to tell you the truth.

159
00:09:29,635 --> 00:09:34,129
And I thought
it was a big mistake.

160
00:09:34,206 --> 00:09:36,731
One of the first things
we went to was his office.

161
00:09:36,809 --> 00:09:42,247
And I remember just as I was
about to pull out a drawer,

162
00:09:42,315 --> 00:09:44,943
Mr. Friedman came
rushing in and said,

163
00:09:45,017 --> 00:09:46,678
"Wait. I'll get that for you. "

164
00:09:46,752 --> 00:09:48,583
And said, "Here.

165
00:09:48,654 --> 00:09:50,645
This is all that's there. "

166
00:09:50,723 --> 00:09:54,022
And it was one piece of mail
from the Netherlands,

167
00:09:54,093 --> 00:09:55,924
but it was child pornography.

168
00:09:55,995 --> 00:09:57,860
And he said, "That's it.

169
00:09:57,930 --> 00:09:59,761
That's all there is. "

170
00:09:59,832 --> 00:10:01,129
And I said, "Well, that's
great, Mr. Friedman,

171
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,428
but we're still gonna search. "

172
00:10:02,501 --> 00:10:05,095
And he goes, "I don't
understand why you don't go

173
00:10:05,171 --> 00:10:08,504
when I tell you
that's all there is?"

174
00:10:08,574 --> 00:10:10,201
And I said, "Well,
we don't believe you. "

175
00:10:10,876 --> 00:10:12,537
Well, it's not something he
sort of left lying around

176
00:10:12,578 --> 00:10:14,512
on the kitchen table.

177
00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:18,516
He wasn't proud of it,
and he kept it hidden.

178
00:10:18,584 --> 00:10:22,042
He had his office downstairs.

179
00:10:22,121 --> 00:10:24,214
It wasn't, like, right there.

180
00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:25,621
You had to go downstairs

181
00:10:25,691 --> 00:10:27,818
and around the corner
to get to his office.

182
00:10:27,893 --> 00:10:31,351
We used to have
someone that cleaned.

183
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:33,625
He says, "Don't let
her clean in here.

184
00:10:33,699 --> 00:10:36,327
It's okay. I don't want
my things disturbed. "

185
00:10:36,402 --> 00:10:38,734
So all right.

186
00:10:38,804 --> 00:10:40,635
I never went in there.

187
00:10:40,706 --> 00:10:43,038
Then one of our inspectors
moved the piano

188
00:10:43,109 --> 00:10:44,303
that was in that office.

189
00:10:44,377 --> 00:10:47,505
And that's where his stash
of magazines were held,

190
00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:48,945
behind the piano.

191
00:10:50,783 --> 00:10:54,275
And this was Arnold's secret.

192
00:10:54,353 --> 00:10:58,983
He liked to look
at pictures of boys.

193
00:10:59,058 --> 00:11:03,017
And it's not that he
acted on these things.

194
00:11:03,095 --> 00:11:08,965
He just wanted to look at these
pictures and meditate or

195
00:11:12,905 --> 00:11:15,271
And these are listings
of the magazines

196
00:11:15,341 --> 00:11:17,741
that were found
behind the piano.

197
00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:19,710
"Young Boys & Sodomy. "

198
00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:22,111
"Incest Case Histories. "

199
00:11:22,181 --> 00:11:25,446
Something called
"Chicken Pickin's Magazine. "

200
00:11:29,221 --> 00:11:31,746
And in addition to that,
we found evidence

201
00:11:31,824 --> 00:11:35,885
of a computer class being
taught there by Mr. Friedman.

202
00:11:35,961 --> 00:11:40,022
And we did seize
some list of names

203
00:11:40,099 --> 00:11:43,068
that we thought
could be students.

204
00:11:43,135 --> 00:11:46,070
I remember walking
in there saying,

205
00:11:46,138 --> 00:11:48,402
"Goddamn. We could
have a problem here. "

206
00:11:53,479 --> 00:11:56,846
Just when you think everything
is going to be dull,

207
00:11:56,916 --> 00:12:00,079
something gets dropped
on your lap, you know,

208
00:12:00,152 --> 00:12:03,815
and it turns out to be something
bigger than you ever thought.

209
00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:06,255
What happened was one
of the detectives

210
00:12:06,325 --> 00:12:07,986
from the vice squad
came in to see me.

211
00:12:08,060 --> 00:12:09,755
And he had a list.

212
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:11,888
And it was at that point that
we were able to learn

213
00:12:11,964 --> 00:12:14,728
that these were computer
classes that went on

214
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,133
literally every day of
the week and Saturday.

215
00:12:18,204 --> 00:12:22,197
And we drew a big map of the
whole village of Great Neck

216
00:12:22,274 --> 00:12:25,937
sectioned it off, and started
sending detectives out

217
00:12:26,011 --> 00:12:27,444
to do interviews.

218
00:12:27,513 --> 00:12:29,481
She set us up in teams,

219
00:12:29,548 --> 00:12:31,846
male/female teams.

220
00:12:31,917 --> 00:12:37,856
And we got a list
of alleged victims.

221
00:12:37,923 --> 00:12:39,356
Soon as we went
into the house,

222
00:12:39,425 --> 00:12:41,723
we were usually approached
by the mothers.

223
00:12:41,794 --> 00:12:45,161
And we explained why we're
there, what we're doing there,

224
00:12:45,231 --> 00:12:47,096
and we'd really like to
talk to their children,

225
00:12:47,166 --> 00:12:49,430
preferably alone.

226
00:12:49,502 --> 00:12:51,936
The parents were
becoming impatient.

227
00:12:52,004 --> 00:12:54,905
They wanted something
done immediately.

228
00:12:54,974 --> 00:12:58,239
But you always want to be very
careful about how you proceed,

229
00:12:58,310 --> 00:13:01,370
because the one thing
that you worry about

230
00:13:01,514 --> 00:13:04,415
I know I worried about
it all the time, is

231
00:13:04,483 --> 00:13:08,419
just charging somebody
with this kind of a crime

232
00:13:08,487 --> 00:13:10,318
is enough to ruin their lives.

233
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:13,825
So you want to make sure that
you have enough evidence

234
00:13:13,893 --> 00:13:18,956
and that you're convinced that
you're making a good charge.

235
00:13:20,533 --> 00:13:22,262
And how much time was
there between the time

236
00:13:22,334 --> 00:13:23,892
the postal inspector
searched the house

237
00:13:23,969 --> 00:13:26,267
and the time that you went
in for the second search?

238
00:13:26,338 --> 00:13:28,203
Well, it would have been
less than a month,

239
00:13:28,274 --> 00:13:30,834
because we did that the day
before Thanksgiving.

240
00:13:35,681 --> 00:13:36,875
A prominent middle-aged
teacher

241
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:38,814
in a prosperous
Long Island town

242
00:13:38,884 --> 00:13:41,944
is charged with sodomizing young
boys who were his students.

243
00:13:42,021 --> 00:13:44,148
Police are charging that
sexual abuse went on

244
00:13:44,223 --> 00:13:47,488
behind the doors of
17 Picadilly Road in Great Neck.

245
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,084
We rang the doorbell.

246
00:13:49,161 --> 00:13:53,723
As soon as he realized who it
was, he wasn't gonna let us in.

247
00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:56,267
So one of the detectives
broke the door down.

248
00:13:56,335 --> 00:13:59,065
And we went into
the premises at that point.

249
00:13:59,138 --> 00:14:00,503
Arnold was by himself.

250
00:14:00,573 --> 00:14:03,406
His wife was out shopping.

251
00:14:03,475 --> 00:14:10,244
I was out to the store to
buy a Thanksgiving turkey.

252
00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:14,480
And I go up the front
walk to the house,

253
00:14:14,553 --> 00:14:18,387
and there're people
all over the house.

254
00:14:18,457 --> 00:14:22,257
And my husband is sitting,
looking very sheepishly

255
00:14:22,328 --> 00:14:27,630
in the dining room, handcuffed.

256
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:30,965
By this time, just about
every news organization

257
00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:33,732
you could name had
arrived on the scene.

258
00:14:33,806 --> 00:14:36,775
I went home for Thanksgiving.

259
00:14:36,842 --> 00:14:40,073
Got to the house, and there's
cops and news trucks

260
00:14:40,145 --> 00:14:41,635
all over the place.

261
00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:43,341
And

262
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:45,842
I got worried, of course.

263
00:14:45,918 --> 00:14:47,783
When David came to the house,

264
00:14:47,853 --> 00:14:50,117
we were able to
ascertain eventually

265
00:14:50,189 --> 00:14:51,918
the type of business he was in.

266
00:14:53,292 --> 00:14:55,920
And we heard that he was
involved in children's

267
00:14:55,995 --> 00:15:00,091
entertainment in the form of
some sort of clown activities.

268
00:15:00,165 --> 00:15:03,828
I was there when
the clown came in.

269
00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:06,133
He was ranting and raving.

270
00:15:06,205 --> 00:15:07,638
We had words.

271
00:15:07,706 --> 00:15:09,071
And I was going
through the folders.

272
00:15:09,141 --> 00:15:10,438
We told him to take a hike.

273
00:15:10,509 --> 00:15:12,704
And he kept trying
to come into the house,

274
00:15:12,778 --> 00:15:15,269
and I kept telling him
that he couldn't,

275
00:15:15,347 --> 00:15:16,473
that he had to leave.

276
00:15:16,548 --> 00:15:19,540
He wasn't allowed
while we were searching.

277
00:15:19,618 --> 00:15:22,018
And finally, he came in
for the last time.

278
00:15:22,087 --> 00:15:23,213
He bent down.

279
00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:25,450
I really thought he had
a weapon in that duffle bag.

280
00:15:25,524 --> 00:15:29,221
Everybody kind of, you know,
reached for a gun at one point.

281
00:15:29,295 --> 00:15:31,092
What he came out with

282
00:15:31,163 --> 00:15:34,826
was a pair of Fruit
of the Loom underwear.

283
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:38,495
And he started prancing around,
flailing his arms in the air,

284
00:15:38,570 --> 00:15:42,267
saying, "Look at me.
I'm an asshole. "

285
00:15:42,341 --> 00:15:45,799
They're harassing my father
for no reason at all.

286
00:15:45,878 --> 00:15:50,315
If I had had some kind of
Arabian sand scarf

287
00:15:50,382 --> 00:15:51,713
I would have wrapped
that around my face

288
00:15:51,784 --> 00:15:53,513
and been Lawrence of Arabia.

289
00:15:53,585 --> 00:15:55,348
Maybe that
would have been better.

290
00:15:55,421 --> 00:15:57,252
But I took out underwear,
and I put it on my head

291
00:15:57,323 --> 00:15:58,517
because I didn't want
to be on camera.

292
00:16:00,926 --> 00:16:02,917
The first arrested
was Arnold Friedman,

293
00:16:02,995 --> 00:16:06,158
a retired schoolteacher who was
charged with sodomizing boys

294
00:16:06,231 --> 00:16:08,529
aged 8 to 11.

295
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,865
The charges are that, while
running a computer school,

296
00:16:11,937 --> 00:16:15,771
Arnold Friedman and his son
engaged in various forms

297
00:16:15,841 --> 00:16:18,969
of sexual abuse
against minor children.

298
00:16:19,044 --> 00:16:21,308
Jesse pulls up coming
home from school.

299
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,507
His friends dump him
out of the car.

300
00:16:23,582 --> 00:16:26,710
David sort of grabbed me,
and we were sitting

301
00:16:26,785 --> 00:16:29,652
a couple of houses down,
sort of on the sidewalk.

302
00:16:29,722 --> 00:16:31,383
And he was saying
something to me.

303
00:16:31,457 --> 00:16:34,324
And then one of the TV
cameras came over,

304
00:16:34,393 --> 00:16:36,361
so we kind of ran
to the backyard.

305
00:16:36,428 --> 00:16:37,656
And we went behind the house.

306
00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:39,561
And we were in the backyard
of our house.

307
00:16:39,631 --> 00:16:42,998
And the cops came back, and they
said, "What's going on here?"

308
00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:44,558
And I said, "Don't worry about
it. It's just me and Jesse. "

309
00:16:44,636 --> 00:16:46,627
And they said,
"Well, we want Jesse.

310
00:16:46,705 --> 00:16:48,798
We need Jesse
in the house now. "

311
00:16:48,874 --> 00:16:52,867
Of course, we thought,
you know,

312
00:16:52,945 --> 00:16:54,173
we didn't know why that was.

313
00:16:55,414 --> 00:16:58,872
As we conducted more interviews
of the children,

314
00:16:58,951 --> 00:17:01,078
Jesse's name started to pop up.

315
00:17:01,153 --> 00:17:02,484
And Jesse was there.

316
00:17:02,554 --> 00:17:03,851
What did Jesse do?

317
00:17:03,922 --> 00:17:06,356
And then eventually we were
able to ascertain

318
00:17:06,425 --> 00:17:10,225
that Jesse's role was not one
of, you know, helping his dad

319
00:17:10,295 --> 00:17:12,092
conduct the computer class,

320
00:17:12,164 --> 00:17:15,327
but basically abusing
the children himself.

321
00:17:15,401 --> 00:17:16,800
We didn't have children
telling us

322
00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:18,632
that Arnold had
slapped them around.

323
00:17:18,704 --> 00:17:21,867
But quite a number of the kids
reported incidents

324
00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:24,909
of being slapped and having
their hair pulled

325
00:17:24,977 --> 00:17:27,343
or their arms twisted by Jesse.

326
00:17:27,413 --> 00:17:30,780
He was, by far,
the more violent one.

327
00:17:30,849 --> 00:17:33,147
All these policemen
said that Jesse

328
00:17:33,218 --> 00:17:34,845
was some kind of aggressor.

329
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,582
That even his father
was cowering,

330
00:17:37,656 --> 00:17:42,025
and Jesse was this sexual,
molesting tyrant.

331
00:17:42,094 --> 00:17:44,654
I challenge anyone
to find anyone

332
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:49,758
who Jesse had even teased
as a child or called a name.

333
00:17:49,835 --> 00:17:52,133
Jesse was not an angry person.

334
00:17:52,204 --> 00:17:55,105
He was not an upset person.

335
00:17:55,174 --> 00:17:57,972
So we ended up spending
a lot of time together.

336
00:17:58,043 --> 00:18:02,241
I was over his house 3 days
a week, 4 days a week.

337
00:18:02,314 --> 00:18:06,683
And as far as I know him,
none of this ever happened,

338
00:18:06,752 --> 00:18:08,583
not on my watch.

339
00:18:09,988 --> 00:18:12,684
Eighteen-year-old Jesse Friedman
also stands accused

340
00:18:12,758 --> 00:18:17,957
of sex abuse and using a child
in a sexual performance.

341
00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:20,498
The only thought that I just
kept having the whole night

342
00:18:20,566 --> 00:18:22,966
was, "We're gonna get bailed out
and then we'll go home

343
00:18:23,035 --> 00:18:24,229
and we'll figure out
what's going on,

344
00:18:24,303 --> 00:18:25,429
and the lawyers will
take care of this,

345
00:18:25,504 --> 00:18:26,698
and they'll straighten
this out. "

346
00:18:26,772 --> 00:18:28,899
Because it was still
just a matter of,

347
00:18:28,974 --> 00:18:30,669
"This is a big
misunderstanding. "

348
00:18:33,112 --> 00:18:36,138
But when the bail was set
at a million dollars,

349
00:18:36,215 --> 00:18:38,706
instead of going out
with Mom and David

350
00:18:38,784 --> 00:18:42,982
like we were supposed to,
we went back the other way.

351
00:18:43,055 --> 00:18:46,024
And that was the moment when

352
00:18:46,091 --> 00:18:48,787
there was this whole new sense
that the problem was

353
00:18:48,861 --> 00:18:50,795
much worse than I
originally thought.

354
00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:16,879
The investigation didn't
end at that point.

355
00:19:16,955 --> 00:19:22,154
That really was the arrest
and the search of the house.

356
00:19:22,227 --> 00:19:26,323
And then we went on, because we
had literally, at that point

357
00:19:26,398 --> 00:19:28,423
dozens more interviews to do.

358
00:19:37,309 --> 00:19:42,838
Somewhere along the way, I think
it was the Nassau County cops,

359
00:19:42,915 --> 00:19:47,215
they showed me this magazine,
and they said,

360
00:19:47,286 --> 00:19:49,220
"You see?
Look at this magazine. "

361
00:19:49,288 --> 00:19:51,256
And they showed me the magazine.

362
00:19:51,323 --> 00:19:53,484
They were embarrassed
to show it to me

363
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,460
because of what
the pictures were.

364
00:19:56,528 --> 00:19:58,553
And you know, I didn't see it.

365
00:19:58,630 --> 00:20:02,589
My eyes were in
the right direction,

366
00:20:02,668 --> 00:20:07,162
but my brain saw nothing.

367
00:20:07,239 --> 00:20:10,265
Because when it was all over,

368
00:20:10,342 --> 00:20:15,473
the lawyer showed me
the magazine, and then I saw it.

369
00:20:15,547 --> 00:20:18,141
For the first time,
I really saw it.

370
00:20:18,217 --> 00:20:21,653
I couldn't
believe what I saw.

371
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:28,687
I mean, I had no concept
that this

372
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,625
thing even exists
in the world,

373
00:20:30,696 --> 00:20:34,530
that this magazine would
even be in the world.

374
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,469
I mean, we had
a middle-class home, educated.

375
00:20:39,538 --> 00:20:42,439
I had a good family, right?

376
00:20:42,507 --> 00:20:44,941
Where did this come from?

377
00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:48,712
Mr. And Mrs. Friedman's house

378
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:51,476
on this most beautiful
Thanksgiving dinner.

379
00:20:53,085 --> 00:20:54,746
For my daughter,
for my son-in-law,

380
00:20:54,820 --> 00:20:58,221
and for my 3 grandsons.

381
00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:02,158
I'm thankful that both my
brothers are home, and

382
00:21:03,262 --> 00:21:06,698
I'm most thankful

383
00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:11,232
to my husband, to Arnie.

384
00:21:14,573 --> 00:21:16,131
Anything you want
to say, Mr. Friedman?

385
00:21:17,442 --> 00:21:18,636
Are you guilty?

386
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:20,541
Did you do all they say you did?

387
00:21:21,747 --> 00:21:23,112
No comment.

388
00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:26,014
I was the first to visit
my brother in prison.

389
00:21:27,853 --> 00:21:31,516
And that was a moment in
my life I'll never forget.

390
00:21:34,459 --> 00:21:35,756
He came into the room.

391
00:21:35,827 --> 00:21:37,226
I was sitting at this
table, a lot of tables,

392
00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:38,388
and they were crowded.

393
00:21:38,463 --> 00:21:39,896
Just awful surroundings.

394
00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:41,626
And he didn't have
his glasses on.

395
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:43,463
Without his glasses,
he was blind as a bat.

396
00:21:43,535 --> 00:21:46,060
They'd taken them off and
broken them, stepped on them.

397
00:21:47,572 --> 00:21:48,698
He had a smell of urine.

398
00:21:48,774 --> 00:21:50,105
They were throwing urine at him.

399
00:21:50,175 --> 00:21:51,802
They were threatening to
throw him down the stairs.

400
00:21:51,877 --> 00:21:53,868
They knew what
he was in there for.

401
00:21:53,945 --> 00:21:56,004
It was all over the media.

402
00:21:56,081 --> 00:21:59,676
And he was half-blind and
hadn't shaved in two days

403
00:21:59,751 --> 00:22:04,051
and shivering and cold
and scared out of his wits.

404
00:22:04,122 --> 00:22:05,680
The first words out
of his mouth were,

405
00:22:05,757 --> 00:22:08,658
"Howie, they're gonna kill me.
Get me out of here. "

406
00:22:12,564 --> 00:22:16,557
The People versus Arnold
Friedman and Jesse Friedman.

407
00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:18,762
Indictment 67430.

408
00:22:18,837 --> 00:22:20,236
Step up, please.

409
00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:23,399
So began the very first time
cameras were permitted

410
00:22:23,475 --> 00:22:25,466
in a Nassau County courtroom.

411
00:22:25,544 --> 00:22:27,273
Fifty-six-year-old
Arnold Friedman

412
00:22:27,346 --> 00:22:29,177
and his 18-year-old son Jesse

413
00:22:29,247 --> 00:22:32,683
heard the court clerk read off
a 91-count indictment

414
00:22:32,751 --> 00:22:36,448
charging them with
sodomy and sexual abuse.

415
00:22:36,521 --> 00:22:38,682
Arnold Friedman, how do you
plead to this indictment?

416
00:22:38,757 --> 00:22:39,951
Guilty or not guilty?

417
00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:41,219
Not guilty.

418
00:22:41,293 --> 00:22:43,955
And Jesse Friedman, how do you
plead to this indictment?

419
00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:45,189
Not guilty.

420
00:22:45,263 --> 00:22:47,663
My brother and Jesse kept
saying they're innocent.

421
00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:49,701
"This is trumped up charges. "

422
00:22:49,768 --> 00:22:50,894
And they got
a McMartin's, you know?

423
00:22:50,969 --> 00:22:55,201
They somehow got one kid to,

424
00:22:55,273 --> 00:22:57,298
they got the police to be
able to convince the kids,

425
00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:58,434
"Well, all of your friends
said something happened.

426
00:22:58,510 --> 00:22:59,670
Didn't something happen?

427
00:22:59,745 --> 00:23:01,542
Something must have happened,"
et cetera, et cetera.

428
00:23:01,613 --> 00:23:03,478
And they were convinced.

429
00:23:03,548 --> 00:23:05,709
They kept saying
they were innocent.

430
00:23:06,952 --> 00:23:09,386
And I just kept thinking,

431
00:23:10,889 --> 00:23:13,221
"I have to believe them. "

432
00:23:13,291 --> 00:23:18,490
It's very hard for people to
accept him as a pedophile.

433
00:23:18,563 --> 00:23:22,465
Arnold Friedman was
an award-winning teacher.

434
00:23:22,534 --> 00:23:24,559
All over the house
were plaques

435
00:23:24,636 --> 00:23:27,605
and newspaper articles
written about him.

436
00:23:27,672 --> 00:23:30,869
He had been given an award,
"Computer Teacher of the Year. "

437
00:23:30,942 --> 00:23:32,569
He also taught piano.

438
00:23:37,182 --> 00:23:38,774
David plays beautifully.

439
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:42,843
And his father taught him
how to play the piano.

440
00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:47,820
It was when he died
that I realized

441
00:23:47,893 --> 00:23:50,327
how much of an impact
he had on my life.

442
00:23:52,164 --> 00:23:53,392
Take a bow.

443
00:23:55,233 --> 00:23:59,761
He was very supportive of my
magic when I was a kid.

444
00:24:03,642 --> 00:24:07,669
When I was about 6, my father
took me to a magic show.

445
00:24:07,746 --> 00:24:10,544
And it's probably
my earliest memory.

446
00:24:12,451 --> 00:24:14,544
You know when your son goes
to college and you say,

447
00:24:14,619 --> 00:24:16,678
"Go to college," and
"What are you going to be?

448
00:24:16,755 --> 00:24:19,155
"Be a doctor. Be a lawyer. "

449
00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:24,418
I tried to make him into
a doctor or a lawyer.

450
00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:32,663
You know, my mom would
always say, you know,

451
00:24:32,737 --> 00:24:33,829
"Get a job. Get a job. "

452
00:24:33,905 --> 00:24:36,373
But my dad would say to me,
"You know, David,

453
00:24:36,441 --> 00:24:38,306
I can't tell you what to do,
because you know what I did

454
00:24:38,376 --> 00:24:39,934
when I got out of college. "

455
00:24:40,011 --> 00:24:41,842
He blew off his chemical
engineering degree,

456
00:24:41,913 --> 00:24:43,972
which he could have worked
for an oil company

457
00:24:44,049 --> 00:24:45,141
and made tons of money.

458
00:24:45,217 --> 00:24:46,343
Instead, he played
in the mountains,

459
00:24:46,418 --> 00:24:48,352
which is a total blow-off,
follow your dream,

460
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:50,081
artistic thing.

461
00:24:50,155 --> 00:24:52,180
And I totally love him for that.

462
00:24:58,897 --> 00:25:01,525
Trust your children to somebody
who was a schoolteacher

463
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,899
for over 20, 30 years,
a member of your community.

464
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:07,438
All you heard were accolades
about this person,

465
00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:09,736
and now all of a sudden,
he's a monster.

466
00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:15,271
And things that were
being said,

467
00:25:15,347 --> 00:25:17,542
you know, upset the community,

468
00:25:17,616 --> 00:25:19,379
because you don't
expect that here.

469
00:25:27,058 --> 00:25:29,117
Great Neck is a peninsula.

470
00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:32,129
It's a very insulated community.

471
00:25:32,197 --> 00:25:36,258
This was a certain kind of
person that lived in Great Neck.

472
00:25:36,334 --> 00:25:37,767
It's on the North Shore
of Long Island,

473
00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:40,464
which is usually a
predominately wealthy area.

474
00:25:40,539 --> 00:25:43,872
These are wealthy,
professional people

475
00:25:43,942 --> 00:25:47,343
that have garnered a great deal
of income in their lives,

476
00:25:47,412 --> 00:25:49,004
and they live accordingly.

477
00:25:51,149 --> 00:25:53,049
Nice community.

478
00:25:53,118 --> 00:25:54,210
Tight.

479
00:25:54,286 --> 00:25:55,480
Affluent.

480
00:25:57,355 --> 00:25:58,515
Well-kept homes.

481
00:25:58,590 --> 00:25:59,955
They get dressed up
to go shopping.

482
00:26:00,025 --> 00:26:01,549
They want to be sure
they get seen by

483
00:26:01,626 --> 00:26:02,718
the people they want to see,

484
00:26:02,794 --> 00:26:04,056
and cars are important,

485
00:26:04,129 --> 00:26:05,289
clothes are important.

486
00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:10,157
There's a lot of
competition in Great Neck.

487
00:26:10,235 --> 00:26:13,170
Everybody's kid's
a genius and the best,

488
00:26:13,238 --> 00:26:14,899
and everybody's the best
in this and that,

489
00:26:14,973 --> 00:26:17,407
and you just want your
kid to be happy

490
00:26:17,475 --> 00:26:20,467
and to get an array
of experiences.

491
00:26:20,545 --> 00:26:22,979
And this computer class was
one of those experiences.

492
00:26:23,048 --> 00:26:24,515
You thought
you were doing right.

493
00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:44,201
Most of the children
started out explaining

494
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:48,262
how Mr. Friedman would try
to test them, I think,

495
00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:50,740
in my opinion, as to whether
they'd be receptive

496
00:26:50,809 --> 00:26:52,208
to some of his advances.

497
00:26:52,277 --> 00:26:55,007
There'd be certain showings
on the computer

498
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,480
during computer class
of certain material

499
00:26:57,549 --> 00:26:59,676
that was inappropriate
for children.

500
00:26:59,751 --> 00:27:02,185
If you were going to be
the first one abused

501
00:27:02,253 --> 00:27:03,447
on a particular day,

502
00:27:03,521 --> 00:27:05,751
he would pull up a chair
and sit next to you.

503
00:27:05,824 --> 00:27:08,793
Maybe it would start with his
arm around your shoulder

504
00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:12,057
or on your leg and
gradually move it up,

505
00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:13,825
touching private parts.

506
00:27:15,333 --> 00:27:18,097
And then over the course of time
we developed a situation

507
00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:20,637
where we found out that there
was not only sexual touching

508
00:27:20,705 --> 00:27:24,641
of the genitals, but there
were acts of sodomy,

509
00:27:24,709 --> 00:27:26,006
oral and anal sodomy,

510
00:27:26,077 --> 00:27:28,637
that took place during
the course of the class.

511
00:27:28,713 --> 00:27:31,147
So were the kids abused
in the computer room

512
00:27:31,216 --> 00:27:32,706
in view of everyone else?

513
00:27:32,784 --> 00:27:35,685
From what I saw
in my sessions,

514
00:27:35,754 --> 00:27:38,188
none were raped
out on the floor.

515
00:27:38,256 --> 00:27:41,521
The kids were raped in Jesse's
room or the bathroom.

516
00:27:43,094 --> 00:27:44,493
Just to change the subject
for a second,

517
00:27:44,562 --> 00:27:47,827
there were these sexual
computer games

518
00:27:47,899 --> 00:27:50,663
that were discussed during
the course of the case.

519
00:27:50,735 --> 00:27:53,829
We'd basically do
the games where

520
00:27:53,905 --> 00:27:56,840
there would be naked girls
and everything

521
00:27:56,908 --> 00:27:58,671
in the computer class.

522
00:27:58,743 --> 00:28:01,007
But I remember one time I
slipped one of the games out,

523
00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:02,239
and I brought it home
and everything,

524
00:28:02,313 --> 00:28:04,110
and I copied it,
and Arnold found out.

525
00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:05,615
Because of that, I was raped

526
00:28:05,684 --> 00:28:08,778
by him and Jesse at the same
time, as punishment to that.

527
00:28:08,853 --> 00:28:09,945
I never did it again.

528
00:28:10,021 --> 00:28:11,579
He made me format it.
I formatted it.

529
00:28:11,656 --> 00:28:13,055
I had to bring my computer
in and show him

530
00:28:13,124 --> 00:28:15,092
that I hadn't brought it home.

531
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,129
So he was absolutely positive,
100%, that it was not

532
00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:21,632
touched at all in any way,
form, shape whatsoever.

533
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,362
And how did he know that
you brought it home?

534
00:28:26,471 --> 00:28:30,032
He accounted for
all the disks that were there.

535
00:28:30,108 --> 00:28:31,473
And since he flipped
through, he's like,

536
00:28:31,543 --> 00:28:34,444
"Who the fuck took this? Tell me
now, or I'm gonna kill you all!"

537
00:28:34,512 --> 00:28:36,275
And he had a knife, and he
was waving a knife around.

538
00:28:36,347 --> 00:28:38,008
I was like, "I did it!"

539
00:28:41,152 --> 00:28:43,677
My general recollection
of the classes

540
00:28:43,755 --> 00:28:46,781
is basically a positive one,
is a pleasant one.

541
00:28:46,858 --> 00:28:48,951
The types of behaviors
which were described,

542
00:28:49,027 --> 00:28:53,361
which were, well, just
downright satanic in nature.

543
00:28:53,431 --> 00:28:56,423
I mean, they make him sound like
some kind of brutal sadist,

544
00:28:56,501 --> 00:28:58,867
whereas, you know, I had just
always thought of him

545
00:28:58,937 --> 00:29:01,963
as being kind of a nebbish.

546
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,905
I think, as someone
who took the classes,

547
00:29:03,975 --> 00:29:06,307
it was just hard to picture
even that going on,

548
00:29:06,377 --> 00:29:07,605
because I did have
a good experience.

549
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:09,647
And I didn't, you know,
see anything, you know,

550
00:29:09,714 --> 00:29:10,908
remotely like,

551
00:29:12,550 --> 00:29:14,347
you know, like child
molestation

552
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:17,650
or child abuse or any
child anything going on.

553
00:29:17,722 --> 00:29:19,713
What took place in
Arnold's classes

554
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:22,658
was pretty much just
straight computer lessons.

555
00:29:22,727 --> 00:29:24,558
I mean, as ordinary
and as boring

556
00:29:24,629 --> 00:29:26,859
as you could
possibly imagine it.

557
00:29:26,931 --> 00:29:29,798
It was just generally
a free-for-all.

558
00:29:29,868 --> 00:29:34,032
Everybody could see
what was going on,

559
00:29:34,105 --> 00:29:35,834
and very often they
would participate

560
00:29:35,907 --> 00:29:40,867
in these sort of mass games
in the classroom.

561
00:29:40,945 --> 00:29:43,709
There was a game there
that was called "Leapfrog. "

562
00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:46,114
And this one really got to me.

563
00:29:46,184 --> 00:29:50,018
They would play
leapfrog in the class.

564
00:29:50,088 --> 00:29:51,385
They'd actually have
their clothes off.

565
00:29:51,456 --> 00:29:55,950
And we associate leapfrog like
you do when you were a kid,

566
00:29:56,027 --> 00:29:58,291
one guy jumping over another
guy, but the fact is

567
00:29:58,363 --> 00:30:01,127
it means everybody's butt's
up in the air, so to speak.

568
00:30:01,199 --> 00:30:05,533
The very nature of these
charges is so absurd.

569
00:30:05,603 --> 00:30:09,334
It seems almost like some
kind of grotesque fantasy.

570
00:30:10,575 --> 00:30:11,735
Yeah. Leapfrog.

571
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:13,539
I remember about that.

572
00:30:14,946 --> 00:30:21,510
It's kind of like Twister,
where we would have to sit down.

573
00:30:21,586 --> 00:30:23,315
Our asses would be in the air.

574
00:30:23,388 --> 00:30:26,221
Arnold and Jesse would leap
from one person to another,

575
00:30:26,291 --> 00:30:29,419
sticking their dick
each in our ass.

576
00:30:29,494 --> 00:30:31,359
But then I was confused,
because you said that

577
00:30:31,429 --> 00:30:34,227
no kids were raped
in the computer room.

578
00:30:34,299 --> 00:30:36,927
The leapfrog game, which
was not molestation,

579
00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:39,492
was a leapfrog game, was not
considered molestation,

580
00:30:39,571 --> 00:30:40,833
was done outside.

581
00:30:40,905 --> 00:30:43,840
But that was a group game.

582
00:30:43,908 --> 00:30:46,706
The actual molestation,
one-on-one contact,

583
00:30:46,778 --> 00:30:48,177
happened in the bathroom.

584
00:30:48,246 --> 00:30:49,804
The game happened
out on the floor.

585
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,283
One of the things,
you sit down there,

586
00:30:53,351 --> 00:30:56,081
and I know I, you know, think
about this, and you know,

587
00:30:56,154 --> 00:31:00,750
"How could this go on
in this home for so long

588
00:31:00,825 --> 00:31:03,589
and not be,
you know, come out?"

589
00:31:03,661 --> 00:31:08,928
But, you know,
that wasn't my province.

590
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,060
That wasn't what I had to decide
or the judge had to decide.

591
00:31:12,136 --> 00:31:14,127
You know, that's up to someone
else to decide that.

592
00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:16,571
But if I recall, you know,
the children were

593
00:31:16,641 --> 00:31:18,165
pretty vivid in their
recollections

594
00:31:18,243 --> 00:31:22,179
as to what Arnold
and/or Jesse did to them.

595
00:31:22,247 --> 00:31:23,976
And Judge Boklan,
she's you know,

596
00:31:24,048 --> 00:31:26,039
a pretty strong-willed judge.

597
00:31:26,117 --> 00:31:29,575
And she's pretty unmovable
when she makes her decision.

598
00:31:29,654 --> 00:31:34,990
There was never a doubt in
my mind as to their guilt.

599
00:31:35,059 --> 00:31:36,617
And remember, I'd been
around for a while.

600
00:31:36,694 --> 00:31:40,061
This wasn't, you know, the first
sex case that I had ever seen.

601
00:31:40,131 --> 00:31:42,725
In fact, my previous law
secretary used to tease me

602
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,358
that we were the pervert part.

603
00:31:44,435 --> 00:31:49,304
And having been, you know, head
of the Sex Crimes Unit myself,

604
00:31:49,374 --> 00:31:51,569
where, you know, I had young
boys who were sodomized,

605
00:31:51,643 --> 00:31:53,577
in fact, one who
killed himself

606
00:31:53,645 --> 00:31:57,012
you know, after the sentence
of the abuser.

607
00:31:57,081 --> 00:31:59,015
I mean, some horrible
experiences.

608
00:31:59,083 --> 00:32:01,847
So for me to be so outraged,

609
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,821
I mean, this was really
very, very bad

610
00:32:04,889 --> 00:32:06,447
what was going on there.

611
00:32:06,524 --> 00:32:08,014
It was like someone's
worst nightmare.

612
00:32:08,092 --> 00:32:11,152
Who would even think
of doing these things?

613
00:32:11,229 --> 00:32:16,166
And to do them in a group
and with so many witnesses.

614
00:32:16,234 --> 00:32:19,897
The scenario, as posted by
the media and the police

615
00:32:19,971 --> 00:32:23,600
was so incredibly way out,

616
00:32:23,675 --> 00:32:26,735
it was hard for me to
believe that it was true.

617
00:32:26,811 --> 00:32:30,144
We now welcome, also in
Los Angeles, Debbie Nathan.

618
00:32:30,214 --> 00:32:32,273
Debbie is an investigative
freelance journalist,

619
00:32:32,350 --> 00:32:34,250
who has been covering
the McMartin and other

620
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:36,287
abuse trials around the country.

621
00:32:36,354 --> 00:32:38,549
All these parents
are bizarro, huh?

622
00:32:38,623 --> 00:32:39,988
They're all whacked?

623
00:32:40,058 --> 00:32:42,492
Well, it's not really fair,
I don't think

624
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,323
to deal simply with
these parents

625
00:32:44,395 --> 00:32:45,623
or with this particular case.

626
00:32:45,697 --> 00:32:47,756
You have to understand that
all over the country

627
00:32:47,832 --> 00:32:49,265
there is a hysteria.

628
00:32:49,334 --> 00:32:51,199
And I don't think that
it's a question

629
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:52,736
with most of these
kids of lying.

630
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:57,104
I think that they have been
brainwashed, if you will.

631
00:32:57,175 --> 00:32:59,803
I was one of the first writers
for the mass media

632
00:32:59,877 --> 00:33:02,505
to look at those cases
critically and question them.

633
00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:05,708
So as a result of that, having
done a lot of that work,

634
00:33:05,783 --> 00:33:07,580
I got a lot of letters
from people.

635
00:33:07,652 --> 00:33:11,554
And my father wrote to Debbie
and said, I don't know,

636
00:33:11,622 --> 00:33:13,021
said, "Help me. "

637
00:33:13,091 --> 00:33:15,525
And she has been the only
person outside the family

638
00:33:15,593 --> 00:33:19,029
that said, "I believe you. "

639
00:33:20,264 --> 00:33:21,526
In the Friedman case,

640
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:24,568
the basic charges were
completely implausible.

641
00:33:24,635 --> 00:33:27,126
First of all, you'd have
to believe that blood

642
00:33:27,205 --> 00:33:29,173
is coming out of these
children's orifices,

643
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,332
that they're screaming,

644
00:33:30,408 --> 00:33:32,342
that they're crying,

645
00:33:32,410 --> 00:33:37,313
that their clothes are soiled
from semen and from blood.

646
00:33:37,382 --> 00:33:39,282
And yet their parents show up.

647
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:41,011
Sometimes they show up
unannounced.

648
00:33:41,085 --> 00:33:42,450
Everything looks fine.

649
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,115
Was there any physical evidence
in the case that was relevant?

650
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:49,284
Or it was the case
really strictly based on

651
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,520
the statements of the kids?

652
00:33:50,595 --> 00:33:51,789
It was more testimony.

653
00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:54,161
There was a dearth
of physical evidence.

654
00:33:54,232 --> 00:33:56,462
I don't even recall
whether there was

655
00:33:56,534 --> 00:33:58,399
any physical evidence that
would have indicated

656
00:33:58,469 --> 00:34:01,461
one way or another that
these events took place.

657
00:34:01,539 --> 00:34:05,270
I don't think that they're
sitting around with any kind

658
00:34:05,343 --> 00:34:07,903
of diabolical or
conspiratorial agenda

659
00:34:07,979 --> 00:34:10,971
to go out and falsely
accuse Arnold Friedman

660
00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:12,949
or railroad Jesse Friedman.

661
00:34:13,017 --> 00:34:15,383
But nobody's critiquing them.

662
00:34:15,453 --> 00:34:17,512
Nobody's telling them that
there's a right way

663
00:34:17,588 --> 00:34:19,055
and a wrong way to do this.

664
00:34:19,123 --> 00:34:21,751
Nobody's saying that we've got
a problem in this culture

665
00:34:21,826 --> 00:34:23,919
with hysteria around this issue.

666
00:34:23,995 --> 00:34:29,160
And so they're really free
to let their fantasies fly.

667
00:34:29,233 --> 00:34:30,962
I think the most
overwhelming thing was

668
00:34:31,035 --> 00:34:34,596
the enormous amount
of child pornography.

669
00:34:34,672 --> 00:34:36,333
You would just have to walk
into the living room,

670
00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:38,568
and it'd be piled
around the piano.

671
00:34:38,643 --> 00:34:42,409
There were literally foot-high
stacks of pornography,

672
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,916
in plain view,
all around the house.

673
00:34:47,018 --> 00:34:48,849
But photos taken
during the search

674
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,478
showed nothing of the kind.

675
00:34:56,127 --> 00:34:58,561
But as far as the families were
concerned, I don't want to

676
00:34:58,629 --> 00:35:00,529
use the word that they were
competitive with each other.

677
00:35:00,598 --> 00:35:03,431
I don't know if it's
to that extent.

678
00:35:03,501 --> 00:35:05,594
You know, sometimes it'd be some
idle conversation about,

679
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:08,935
you know, another boy, you know,
"He was sodomized 5 times,

680
00:35:09,006 --> 00:35:12,066
but my son was sodomized
6 times," you know,

681
00:35:12,143 --> 00:35:15,044
as if that meant something in
the overall scheme of things.

682
00:35:15,113 --> 00:35:17,638
There's a whole community
atmosphere that gets created

683
00:35:17,715 --> 00:35:19,740
in a mass-abuse case
like this,

684
00:35:19,817 --> 00:35:22,547
where the families are
talking to each other,

685
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:23,712
they're going to
community meetings,

686
00:35:23,788 --> 00:35:25,483
or they're calling on
the phone all the time.

687
00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:27,319
They're seeing each other
in group therapy.

688
00:35:27,391 --> 00:35:30,792
And there is definitely
an element when a community

689
00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:33,023
defines itself as
a victimized community,

690
00:35:33,097 --> 00:35:34,724
that if you're not victimized

691
00:35:34,799 --> 00:35:36,562
you don't fit into
that community.

692
00:35:36,634 --> 00:35:40,035
The families that had
their child molested

693
00:35:40,104 --> 00:35:43,505
or allegedly molested
became very involved

694
00:35:43,574 --> 00:35:47,943
and took a greater part
of their life at that point.

695
00:35:48,012 --> 00:35:49,809
I appreciated their call
in the beginning

696
00:35:49,881 --> 00:35:51,371
telling me what happened.

697
00:35:51,449 --> 00:35:53,610
And then when I told them
that we looked into it

698
00:35:53,684 --> 00:35:57,484
and my wife and I both felt that
nothing happened to our son,

699
00:35:57,555 --> 00:36:00,547
it got to be a little pushy
situation where they told us

700
00:36:00,625 --> 00:36:04,322
that we were in denial, and it
absolutely happened to our son.

701
00:36:30,988 --> 00:36:32,319
You fucking bitch!

702
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:33,550
I'm gonna kill you!

703
00:36:33,624 --> 00:36:36,422
When Jesse gets out of jail,
he's a dead motherfucker.

704
00:36:36,494 --> 00:36:39,429
When Arnold gets out of jail,
he's a dead motherfucker.

705
00:36:39,497 --> 00:36:42,728
Fuck you! I'll fuck
your whole family!

706
00:36:47,138 --> 00:36:50,164
Is there any one word or
phrase that you could use

707
00:36:50,241 --> 00:36:53,404
to describe that
experience overall?

708
00:37:00,284 --> 00:37:02,081
Chaos. Hysteria.

709
00:37:02,153 --> 00:37:04,587
It was really crazy.

710
00:37:04,655 --> 00:37:05,815
Am I dreaming?

711
00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:06,982
Is this a nightmare?

712
00:37:07,058 --> 00:37:09,686
This can't be happening
to my family.

713
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,284
My brother?

714
00:37:16,033 --> 00:37:19,127
And a day doesn't go by
that I don't think of it.

715
00:37:20,404 --> 00:37:22,838
It destroyed my family.

716
00:37:22,907 --> 00:37:24,499
It tore us apart.

717
00:37:25,876 --> 00:37:27,776
I don't know.

718
00:37:27,845 --> 00:37:30,109
I can't say too much about it.

719
00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:32,172
We were a family.

720
00:38:22,733 --> 00:38:24,496
Mommy believes you did it

721
00:38:24,568 --> 00:38:25,865
and she believes you
should go to jail,

722
00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:27,699
and she believes that she
deserves everything

723
00:38:27,772 --> 00:38:29,535
that's left and you shouldn't
have any part of it.

724
00:38:29,607 --> 00:38:31,040
You have to hire
another lawyer?

725
00:38:31,108 --> 00:38:33,906
All this woman does
is hire lawyers.

726
00:38:33,978 --> 00:38:37,971
I honestly have to tell you,
anything that she decides

727
00:38:38,049 --> 00:38:39,516
I can't trust.

728
00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:41,915
She runs around, "Arnie,
they don't trust me. "

729
00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:43,283
Well, we don't trust her.

730
00:38:43,354 --> 00:38:46,289
We lived with her for 3, for 2
months while you were in jail,

731
00:38:46,357 --> 00:38:48,757
and we learned not to trust her.

732
00:38:48,826 --> 00:38:52,694
David had just gotten a video
camera when this case broke,

733
00:38:52,763 --> 00:38:56,460
and so he just started recording
the family falling apart.

734
00:39:01,238 --> 00:39:03,706
And Mommy believes them,
and I don't.

735
00:39:04,709 --> 00:39:06,176
I tell them to get lost,

736
00:39:06,243 --> 00:39:08,302
and Mommy says, "You're right. "

737
00:39:08,379 --> 00:39:10,870
And "I've lived with him
for all my life. "

738
00:39:10,948 --> 00:39:12,939
And "Look at all these horrible
things he's done for me

739
00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:15,349
over 30 years," which
amounts to nothing,

740
00:39:15,419 --> 00:39:17,979
except this.

741
00:39:18,055 --> 00:39:20,353
At some point, David
making the videotapes

742
00:39:20,424 --> 00:39:25,885
kind of springboarded to my
thoughts about audiotape.

743
00:39:25,963 --> 00:39:28,989
And I began to make
audio recordings

744
00:39:29,066 --> 00:39:31,159
of these family arguments.

745
00:40:04,502 --> 00:40:05,901
Don't scream.

746
00:40:13,644 --> 00:40:16,841
The family was screaming
at each other.

747
00:40:16,914 --> 00:40:19,781
And everyone wanted me
to say, "He didn't do it. "

748
00:40:19,850 --> 00:40:21,784
Well, I wouldn't do that.

749
00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:25,147
I said, "I don't know. "

750
00:40:25,222 --> 00:40:28,214
They wanted me
just to lie, you know,

751
00:40:28,292 --> 00:40:30,988
and say, "He didn't do it,"
whether I believed it or not.

752
00:40:31,061 --> 00:40:35,691
And I was so angry at Arnold
and what he'd done

753
00:40:35,766 --> 00:40:38,599
that I wouldn't do it, and I
said, "Well, I don't know. "

754
00:40:38,669 --> 00:40:41,194
And I wanted just
to tell the truth.

755
00:40:41,272 --> 00:40:43,570
That is the truth.
I didn't know.

756
00:40:43,641 --> 00:40:47,771
My mother abandoned
him, pretty much,

757
00:40:47,845 --> 00:40:50,439
wouldn't talk to him, fought
with him constantly,

758
00:40:50,514 --> 00:40:52,038
made him sleep on the sofa.

759
00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:55,017
And after 33 years of
marriage, when your wife,

760
00:40:55,085 --> 00:40:58,384
when you've been accused of
a crime you didn't commit,

761
00:40:58,456 --> 00:41:01,482
you spend 6 weeks in
jail for it,

762
00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:04,255
you're trying to build
a defense,

763
00:41:04,328 --> 00:41:07,388
and your wife leaves you,
essentially,

764
00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:09,558
my father fell apart.

765
00:41:10,034 --> 00:41:13,526
You yelled and screamed about
what, that you ruined her life.

766
00:41:13,604 --> 00:41:15,231
She's brainwashed you.
You didn't do anything.

767
00:41:15,306 --> 00:41:17,365
The police have done it to you.

768
00:41:17,441 --> 00:41:18,806
It's not your fault.

769
00:41:18,876 --> 00:41:22,141
The police are
railroading you.

770
00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:25,677
But it's not your fault.

771
00:41:25,749 --> 00:41:26,909
Mommy doesn't believe you.

772
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:28,417
The police picked on you,

773
00:41:28,486 --> 00:41:30,351
and that's who
they're going after.

774
00:41:30,421 --> 00:41:32,252
It's not because
you deserved it.

775
00:41:33,858 --> 00:41:35,519
You're taking the blame,
and you don't deserve the blame.

776
00:41:35,593 --> 00:41:38,255
She's brainwashing you into
thinking that it's your fault,

777
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:39,591
and it's not your fault.

778
00:41:39,663 --> 00:41:41,563
She thinks he did it.

779
00:41:41,632 --> 00:41:43,395
And if he did it,
then she thinks

780
00:41:43,467 --> 00:41:44,593
he's going to be
convicted of it.

781
00:41:44,668 --> 00:41:46,966
And if he's convicted of it,
he's going to go away.

782
00:41:47,037 --> 00:41:49,403
Yeah, but if, let's say he
goes away for 10 years.

783
00:41:49,473 --> 00:41:50,770
He's still gonna come out.

784
00:41:50,841 --> 00:41:52,775
No, I'm talking about 50 years.
I'm talking about 100 years.

785
00:41:52,843 --> 00:41:55,311
She doesn't think
he's getting 50 years.

786
00:41:55,379 --> 00:41:57,506
I don't think she thinks that
he's going to get 50 years.

787
00:41:57,581 --> 00:41:58,673
OK, so what is he gonna get?
Twenty years?

788
00:41:58,749 --> 00:42:00,011
That's 50 years.

789
00:42:00,084 --> 00:42:01,517
What's the difference, well,

790
00:42:01,585 --> 00:42:04,315
If he goes to a state
institution on state charges,

791
00:42:04,388 --> 00:42:05,753
you know he's not coming back.

792
00:42:18,669 --> 00:42:20,762
In this case, there was
consultations

793
00:42:20,838 --> 00:42:24,330
between both sides, the District
Attorney's Office,

794
00:42:24,408 --> 00:42:26,000
the families,
the defense attorneys,

795
00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:28,374
as to what to do with
Arnold Friedman.

796
00:42:28,445 --> 00:42:31,972
We were trying to maintain
a sense of normalcy

797
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:36,782
in terms of having dinner
and paying the bills,

798
00:42:36,854 --> 00:42:39,186
but it was almost surreal.

799
00:42:39,256 --> 00:42:42,453
I mean, I don't think
any of us had any notion

800
00:42:42,526 --> 00:42:45,188
of what was going on
or what we were doing

801
00:42:45,262 --> 00:42:47,355
or where any of this
was leading.

802
00:42:48,499 --> 00:42:51,400
Sir, would you like to
comment on the situation?

803
00:42:51,468 --> 00:42:54,528
Yes, I think this is a kitchen.

804
00:42:54,605 --> 00:42:56,402
I thought it was only
going to last a year

805
00:42:56,473 --> 00:43:00,341
and that we would look back
and laugh about how

806
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,436
crazy we were and how we didn't
know what we were doing

807
00:43:02,513 --> 00:43:04,674
and just sort of laugh.

808
00:43:06,784 --> 00:43:09,844
What do you want?
My nose? My teeth?

809
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,319
Wait a minute. There it is.

810
00:43:11,388 --> 00:43:13,618
- There's your nose.
- Oh that's great.

811
00:43:13,691 --> 00:43:16,182
I feel like I'm
being dissected here.

812
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:20,822
And here's Mommy and Daddy

813
00:43:20,898 --> 00:43:24,299
in a rare moment of affection.

814
00:43:24,368 --> 00:43:25,960
What's the matter?

815
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,405
- Why?
- Why?

816
00:43:31,475 --> 00:43:32,669
Why not?

817
00:43:34,912 --> 00:43:36,379
That's not all.

818
00:43:36,447 --> 00:43:37,744
You've gotten other things.

819
00:43:39,283 --> 00:43:41,217
Lately but not all.

820
00:43:42,386 --> 00:43:45,048
You're the one

821
00:43:45,122 --> 00:43:50,219
Who's stolen
my heart, dear

822
00:43:50,294 --> 00:43:54,697
I think I was the first woman
that he ever really dated.

823
00:43:54,765 --> 00:43:57,029
And he was very reluctant
to get married.

824
00:43:57,101 --> 00:44:00,798
I sort of said, "We've got
to do this," you know.

825
00:44:00,871 --> 00:44:02,771
I could be very

826
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,832
So he says, "Well, all right. "

827
00:44:05,909 --> 00:44:08,173
Big mistake.

828
00:44:12,249 --> 00:44:13,739
We were delighted.

829
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:15,910
She was effervescent, pretty.

830
00:44:15,986 --> 00:44:17,851
They seemed to be
very much in love.

831
00:44:17,921 --> 00:44:20,185
They seemed to be
very compatible.

832
00:44:20,257 --> 00:44:21,986
It had been a long
time in coming.

833
00:44:22,059 --> 00:44:24,152
My mother, "You're my oldest!

834
00:44:24,228 --> 00:44:26,423
Get married! I want
a grandchild," you know.

835
00:44:26,497 --> 00:44:31,264
My mother is sexually ignorant.

836
00:44:31,335 --> 00:44:34,099
As far as I'm concerned, she had
sex, I mean everyone thinks

837
00:44:34,171 --> 00:44:35,297
their parents only
had sex 3 times,

838
00:44:35,372 --> 00:44:37,363
you know for each
of their siblings.

839
00:44:37,441 --> 00:44:39,773
But with my mother,
I think it was true.

840
00:44:39,843 --> 00:44:43,438
And it was like, you know,
you read in a book

841
00:44:43,514 --> 00:44:45,482
how do you have sex,
and you start here,

842
00:44:45,549 --> 00:44:48,484
and then you do step 1,
step 2, step 3.

843
00:44:48,552 --> 00:44:52,545
And that's somewhat like what
sex was like with Arnold,

844
00:44:52,623 --> 00:44:56,218
Because I used to say to him,

845
00:44:56,293 --> 00:44:58,591
"It's called foreplay.

846
00:44:58,662 --> 00:45:00,254
It's supposed to be play.

847
00:45:00,330 --> 00:45:02,730
It's supposed to be fun. "

848
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,633
And he treated it like work.

849
00:45:05,703 --> 00:45:09,264
Like this is what you're
supposed to do when you do it,

850
00:45:09,339 --> 00:45:11,364
like washing the dishes.

851
00:45:12,843 --> 00:45:15,038
If he was so much in the closet
and not living with her

852
00:45:15,112 --> 00:45:17,273
and not attracted,
where was she for 30 years?

853
00:45:17,347 --> 00:45:20,248
Why didn't she say, "Honey,
you're not having sex with me.

854
00:45:20,317 --> 00:45:21,648
I think I want a divorce. "

855
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:22,811
Where was she?

856
00:45:22,886 --> 00:45:24,114
I don't think that's the case.

857
00:45:24,188 --> 00:45:26,520
Either they're
both crazy,

858
00:45:26,590 --> 00:45:27,784
which is a possibility,

859
00:45:27,858 --> 00:45:29,416
or

860
00:45:32,429 --> 00:45:34,727
or he was perfectly normal,

861
00:45:34,798 --> 00:45:38,325
based according to, you
know, by her standards.

862
00:45:38,402 --> 00:45:45,035
You're the one for me

863
00:45:46,143 --> 00:45:50,477
It was a difficult marriage
because of Elaine.

864
00:45:50,547 --> 00:45:55,382
She had her problems, and it
took a monumental amount

865
00:45:55,452 --> 00:45:59,582
of patience and love
and caring to handle it.

866
00:45:59,656 --> 00:46:01,214
It wasn't easy for him.

867
00:46:01,291 --> 00:46:03,350
It wasn't easy for the kids.

868
00:46:04,528 --> 00:46:07,759
But they were able
to live with it.

869
00:46:07,831 --> 00:46:09,765
She was the best mother
she knew how.

870
00:46:09,833 --> 00:46:11,892
She loved her kids,
and she loved her husband.

871
00:46:11,969 --> 00:46:14,028
She wasn't the warmest,

872
00:46:14,104 --> 00:46:16,436
most outgoing human being
in the world.

873
00:46:17,875 --> 00:46:24,678
When I had the first child,
I was just ecstatic,

874
00:46:24,748 --> 00:46:29,412
but I didn't know
how to do it.

875
00:46:30,821 --> 00:46:36,157
And I wasn't the most

876
00:46:38,629 --> 00:46:40,620
well-balanced person myself.

877
00:46:40,697 --> 00:46:44,497
You know, we all have
hang-ups, and

878
00:46:44,568 --> 00:46:47,230
that's my hang-up.

879
00:46:47,304 --> 00:46:50,205
Good things can never
happen to me, only bad.

880
00:46:53,877 --> 00:46:56,072
That's all the snapshots.

881
00:46:56,146 --> 00:46:57,340
I know.

882
00:46:57,414 --> 00:46:58,813
This whole thing is
all the snapshots.

883
00:46:58,882 --> 00:47:00,315
Did they go and they
looked through each one?

884
00:47:01,318 --> 00:47:02,410
They must have.

885
00:47:02,486 --> 00:47:05,580
This is ancient film.

886
00:47:06,990 --> 00:47:08,184
Holy shit.

887
00:47:08,258 --> 00:47:10,089
- Dad, what is it?
- Oh, my God, it's amazing.

888
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,855
How did you get this?
This is great.

889
00:47:11,929 --> 00:47:13,157
- This is my Dad's.
- Who took it?

890
00:47:13,230 --> 00:47:14,424
My father.

891
00:47:14,498 --> 00:47:16,090
Dad, what's that a film of?

892
00:47:16,166 --> 00:47:18,157
This is a film of my sister.

893
00:47:39,790 --> 00:47:41,951
I had a sister.

894
00:47:42,025 --> 00:47:44,459
She died a year
before I was born.

895
00:47:45,863 --> 00:47:48,525
My brother knew her when
he was young, of course.

896
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:51,463
And she died of blood poisoning.

897
00:47:51,535 --> 00:47:53,833
It was a horrible,
terrible, sudden death.

898
00:47:53,904 --> 00:47:57,601
And it destroyed the family.

899
00:47:57,674 --> 00:48:00,074
Arnold's parents divorced.

900
00:48:03,413 --> 00:48:06,576
So Arnold's mother
had these two boys,

901
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:10,484
and they were really on
welfare. I don't know.

902
00:48:10,554 --> 00:48:13,887
They lived in
a basement apartment.

903
00:48:13,957 --> 00:48:17,449
Evidently, there
was one bedroom,

904
00:48:17,527 --> 00:48:22,396
and the boys slept in
the bedroom with the mother.

905
00:48:22,466 --> 00:48:25,526
We shared, all 3 of us,
not in the same bed,

906
00:48:25,602 --> 00:48:28,162
but we all shared
the same room, big rooms.

907
00:48:28,238 --> 00:48:30,706
And rather than put a,
apparently

908
00:48:30,774 --> 00:48:32,765
the living room
was the living room,

909
00:48:32,843 --> 00:48:34,071
and then there was
the kitchen,

910
00:48:34,144 --> 00:48:36,612
so we put all the beds
in the one room.

911
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:42,277
And that she dated a lot of men
and would bring the men

912
00:48:42,352 --> 00:48:48,552
into the apartment, and they
would have sex in the bed

913
00:48:48,625 --> 00:48:53,460
while Arnold was
there listening.

914
00:48:53,530 --> 00:48:58,024
And Arnold said that,
because he saw his mother

915
00:48:58,101 --> 00:49:02,470
in bed with a man, that
when he was adolescent,

916
00:49:02,539 --> 00:49:05,508
he was experimenting,
as all children do,

917
00:49:05,575 --> 00:49:10,979
and he had sex with his brother
in bed or something like that.

918
00:49:11,048 --> 00:49:13,448
And to me,

919
00:49:13,517 --> 00:49:16,350
that's not what all children do.

920
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:19,389
Arnold sent me this right around
when he started writing me,

921
00:49:19,456 --> 00:49:22,425
and it's called "My Story,"
and it was written in 1988.

922
00:49:22,492 --> 00:49:25,757
And I think it was his attempt
to talk about the case

923
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:28,798
but also talk about the case
in the context of his life.

924
00:49:28,865 --> 00:49:30,298
And it starts out, it says,

925
00:49:30,367 --> 00:49:33,734
"This story goes back 50 years
to when I was a child. "

926
00:49:33,804 --> 00:49:35,396
He says, "When I
reached adolescence

927
00:49:35,472 --> 00:49:38,999
I sought out partners for
my emerging sexuality.

928
00:49:39,076 --> 00:49:42,341
My first partner, when I was
13, was my 8-year-old brother.

929
00:49:42,412 --> 00:49:44,972
I had overt sexual
relations with him

930
00:49:45,048 --> 00:49:46,811
over a period of a few years. "

931
00:49:48,485 --> 00:49:51,511
I know that my brother has said
that he messed around with me

932
00:49:51,588 --> 00:49:52,748
when I was a kid.

933
00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:54,688
And I don't remember any of it.

934
00:49:54,758 --> 00:49:56,225
I don't remember anything.

935
00:49:57,594 --> 00:50:00,688
I have nothing up here

936
00:50:00,764 --> 00:50:03,130
that has me yelling or
screaming or crying

937
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,499
or trying to get away
or unhappy or I

938
00:50:06,570 --> 00:50:08,197
there's nothing there that.

939
00:50:10,807 --> 00:50:13,071
Maybe someday a door
will open,

940
00:50:13,143 --> 00:50:16,271
but it better hurry up,
because I'm 65.

941
00:50:16,346 --> 00:50:19,338
And at this point in time,
I could care less.

942
00:50:19,416 --> 00:50:21,850
Then he goes on and says,
"My next partners were boys

943
00:50:21,918 --> 00:50:25,183
my own age, all of which
sexual relations,

944
00:50:25,255 --> 00:50:27,985
probably being within
norms for my age.

945
00:50:28,058 --> 00:50:30,720
However, the emotional
impact of these relations

946
00:50:30,794 --> 00:50:34,127
was very pronounced and
lasted through my adult life.

947
00:50:34,197 --> 00:50:37,257
A more normal situation,
as probably happened

948
00:50:37,334 --> 00:50:39,359
with my partners, would
have been to outgrow

949
00:50:39,436 --> 00:50:41,631
and forget these episodes.

950
00:50:41,705 --> 00:50:44,230
However, I literally fell
in love with these boys,

951
00:50:44,307 --> 00:50:46,639
and the relations were far
more significant to me

952
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:48,803
than they were to my partners. "

953
00:50:48,879 --> 00:50:52,713
And then he told me that when he
got to be an older teenager,

954
00:50:52,783 --> 00:50:55,479
like maybe in his late teens,
he started worrying

955
00:50:55,552 --> 00:50:58,043
that he was still attracted to
kids that were the same age

956
00:50:58,121 --> 00:51:00,715
as his brother had been
when Arnold was 13,

957
00:51:00,791 --> 00:51:03,123
and that really started
bothering him.

958
00:51:03,193 --> 00:51:06,356
And then after he had his own
children, he was worried.

959
00:51:06,430 --> 00:51:08,330
He started worrying that
maybe he would molest

960
00:51:08,398 --> 00:51:09,490
his own children.

961
00:51:09,566 --> 00:51:11,557
And at that point,
he went to therapy,

962
00:51:11,635 --> 00:51:13,500
and the therapist told him,
"No, don't worry.

963
00:51:13,570 --> 00:51:15,128
You've got everything
under control. "

964
00:51:18,642 --> 00:51:21,543
The Jazzbo Mambo
with the boogie beat

965
00:51:21,611 --> 00:51:24,637
is the newest dance
on 52nd Street

966
00:51:24,714 --> 00:51:27,774
All the cats come running
from both near and far

967
00:51:27,851 --> 00:51:31,082
to do the Jazzbo Mambo
8 to the bar

968
00:51:32,489 --> 00:51:36,118
Come on, Light Fingers!

969
00:51:36,193 --> 00:51:38,491
Light Fingers, come on!

970
00:51:45,235 --> 00:51:47,294
Jazzbo Mambo

971
00:51:48,672 --> 00:51:50,469
Jazzbo Mambo

972
00:51:51,575 --> 00:52:01,348
Jazzbo Mambo,
8 to the bar

973
00:52:04,321 --> 00:52:07,222
You could see that
this wasn't exactly

974
00:52:07,291 --> 00:52:09,725
Fred MacMurray and
"My Three Sons," right?

975
00:52:09,793 --> 00:52:12,159
It always struck us as being

976
00:52:12,229 --> 00:52:15,130
a very dysfunctional
family, obviously.

977
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:16,530
And we'd have to,

978
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,296
you would have to wonder,
wouldn't you,

979
00:52:19,369 --> 00:52:24,500
what kind of a family
situation you would have

980
00:52:24,575 --> 00:52:29,740
that could produce
this kind of crime.

981
00:52:29,813 --> 00:52:32,782
What might it be like to grow up
in a household like this?

982
00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:36,251
I don't know.
I can't even imagine.

983
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,948
Today is September 14, 1975.

984
00:52:39,022 --> 00:52:41,388
We just concluded a tour
of Jungle Safari.

985
00:52:41,458 --> 00:52:43,085
Jungle Habitat.

986
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,185
Jungle Habitat in
West Milford, New Jersey.

987
00:52:45,262 --> 00:52:46,388
Here are my 3 brothers.

988
00:52:46,463 --> 00:52:48,693
Two brothers, you dummy.

989
00:52:48,765 --> 00:52:50,426
All right, there are 3 children.

990
00:52:50,501 --> 00:52:55,939
What happened was the 3
sons were like a gang.

991
00:52:56,006 --> 00:52:58,736
Like, "This is our gang

992
00:52:58,809 --> 00:53:00,299
and Mom. "

993
00:53:02,713 --> 00:53:05,739
"She's not part of our gang. "

994
00:53:05,816 --> 00:53:08,683
And we have, of course,

995
00:53:08,752 --> 00:53:10,879
A pterodactyl.

996
00:53:10,954 --> 00:53:12,854
A Jewish pterodactyl.

997
00:53:12,923 --> 00:53:14,948
Shmuck, shmuck, schmuck.

998
00:53:15,025 --> 00:53:16,788
The 4 of us got along so well.

999
00:53:18,061 --> 00:53:21,121
We had a very similar
kind of sense of humor.

1000
00:53:21,198 --> 00:53:23,393
You know, one guy would say
something, and then it would,

1001
00:53:23,467 --> 00:53:25,298
then the next person
would add to the joke.

1002
00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:26,961
And my mother, who has
no sense of humor,

1003
00:53:27,037 --> 00:53:30,302
and she just didn't
get that part of us.

1004
00:53:30,374 --> 00:53:32,467
And she resented that.

1005
00:53:32,543 --> 00:53:36,206
When this whole thing blew
apart, the men got together,

1006
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,147
and Arnold confided in them.

1007
00:53:39,216 --> 00:53:40,649
And me?

1008
00:53:41,785 --> 00:53:45,118
And I was a loyal wife.

1009
00:53:45,189 --> 00:53:48,386
People told me, "Oh, why
don't you leave him?

1010
00:53:48,458 --> 00:53:49,948
He's a horrible person.

1011
00:53:50,027 --> 00:53:51,255
Just walk out and leave him. "

1012
00:53:51,328 --> 00:53:52,955
And I didn't.

1013
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:54,327
I went all over town.

1014
00:53:54,398 --> 00:53:55,729
I raised money for bail.

1015
00:53:55,799 --> 00:54:00,133
I called every relative I knew.

1016
00:54:00,204 --> 00:54:01,330
I begged.

1017
00:54:01,405 --> 00:54:05,364
And I did all this
for him, right?

1018
00:54:05,442 --> 00:54:08,036
He was my husband. I loved him.

1019
00:54:08,111 --> 00:54:11,103
And no one said,
"What do you want?" to me.

1020
00:54:25,629 --> 00:54:27,290
OK.

1021
00:54:27,364 --> 00:54:29,798
OK, I think we can eat now.

1022
00:54:29,866 --> 00:54:32,391
So you're saying
what we have is

1023
00:54:32,469 --> 00:54:35,461
the people who we thought
would testify

1024
00:54:35,539 --> 00:54:37,097
and say that nothing happened.

1025
00:54:40,611 --> 00:54:43,045
And we are afraid to put them
on the witness stand,

1026
00:54:43,113 --> 00:54:45,206
even though we know
that nothing happened.

1027
00:54:45,282 --> 00:54:47,876
We think they will say
something happened.

1028
00:54:47,951 --> 00:54:51,045
The Friedmans suggested that
we speak to various people

1029
00:54:51,121 --> 00:54:53,385
who may have been present
at the time.

1030
00:54:53,457 --> 00:54:57,052
And some of those people weren't
alleged victims at all.

1031
00:54:57,127 --> 00:55:00,392
And that the hope was that one
or more of these people

1032
00:55:00,464 --> 00:55:02,796
would say,
"This is just not true. "

1033
00:55:04,801 --> 00:55:06,462
But that just didn't happen.

1034
00:55:22,986 --> 00:55:24,317
As far as I'm concerned
he's being, he's

1035
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:30,751
So then nothing happened.

1036
00:55:30,827 --> 00:55:34,763
We begged him to tell us
that something happened,

1037
00:55:34,831 --> 00:55:38,267
to explain how this whole mess
could have happened.

1038
00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:41,270
That's the only way to explain
how it could have happened

1039
00:55:41,338 --> 00:55:45,604
other then the fact that the
police are out of their minds.

1040
00:55:45,676 --> 00:55:49,271
We begged him.
He told us nothing happened.

1041
00:55:49,346 --> 00:55:51,109
That's good enough for me.
Nothing happened.

1042
00:55:51,181 --> 00:55:54,446
If my father had the ability
to confess to me,

1043
00:55:54,518 --> 00:55:56,452
yeah, he had done
something one time,

1044
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,956
and that's how this whole crazy
mess got started,

1045
00:56:00,023 --> 00:56:01,684
it would make a lot more sense.

1046
00:56:03,193 --> 00:56:08,460
Not that I wanted that
to be the case, but

1047
00:56:08,532 --> 00:56:13,526
you have to find a way
to explain the unexplainable.

1048
00:56:14,871 --> 00:56:16,031
Oh, my gosh.

1049
00:56:18,375 --> 00:56:19,637
Oh, look at that.

1050
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:23,646
Happy Birthday to you

1051
00:56:23,714 --> 00:56:27,548
Happy Birthday to you

1052
00:56:28,885 --> 00:56:30,375
Is that a real ice cream?

1053
00:56:33,557 --> 00:56:35,889
That's what's so odd about it.

1054
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:40,325
They had this idealized image

1055
00:56:40,397 --> 00:56:45,164
of this father as being this
saint-like person

1056
00:56:45,235 --> 00:56:50,002
this Santa Claus,
Messiah, you know.

1057
00:56:50,073 --> 00:56:53,668
And professionals
in the field say that

1058
00:56:53,744 --> 00:56:58,340
oh, they have this idea
that children identify

1059
00:56:58,415 --> 00:57:01,009
with the abusive parent.

1060
00:57:02,252 --> 00:57:08,020
When I was about a year or two,
my parents separated.

1061
00:57:08,091 --> 00:57:09,683
And what did I do?

1062
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,524
"My father is wonderful.

1063
00:57:12,596 --> 00:57:14,757
My mother is terrible. "

1064
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:20,365
The truth is
my father was a rat

1065
00:57:20,437 --> 00:57:21,870
just like David's father.

1066
00:57:21,938 --> 00:57:23,530
My father walked out.

1067
00:57:23,607 --> 00:57:25,040
This is not wonderful.

1068
00:57:25,108 --> 00:57:26,541
This is being a rat.

1069
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:30,205
My mother was a nag.

1070
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:31,872
Well, I mean, this is true

1071
00:57:31,948 --> 00:57:35,611
but look, she stayed with me,
she took care of me.

1072
00:57:37,287 --> 00:57:42,623
So people's visions
are distorted.

1073
00:57:43,627 --> 00:57:44,559
I never felt angry at my dad.

1074
00:57:44,628 --> 00:57:45,788
My dad had nothing
to do with this.

1075
00:57:46,797 --> 00:57:47,889
Someone knocks on the door

1076
00:57:47,964 --> 00:57:50,558
and accuses you for a crime
you didn't commit

1077
00:57:50,634 --> 00:57:52,397
you gotta attack

1078
00:57:52,469 --> 00:57:54,300
attack your attackers
and do what you can.

1079
00:57:55,472 --> 00:57:58,066
And that's all it was.

1080
00:57:58,141 --> 00:57:59,233
It had nothing to do with

1081
00:57:59,309 --> 00:58:00,640
there was nothing else
that was involved at all.

1082
00:58:02,479 --> 00:58:04,743
We were talking about
honoring and respecting.

1083
00:58:04,815 --> 00:58:06,749
Yeah, but, yeah,
talk about honor and

1084
00:58:06,817 --> 00:58:07,909
do you honor and respect
your husband?

1085
00:58:07,984 --> 00:58:09,576
That's why
I don't talk to you.

1086
00:58:09,653 --> 00:58:11,245
I said I did honor
and respect my husband.

1087
00:58:11,321 --> 00:58:12,413
Oh, Okay.

1088
00:58:12,489 --> 00:58:13,581
But you don't like
that answer.

1089
00:58:13,657 --> 00:58:15,147
No I don't.
I don't believe it, no.

1090
00:58:16,827 --> 00:58:18,260
Ask your father.

1091
00:58:18,328 --> 00:58:19,989
Do I honor and respect you?

1092
00:58:21,164 --> 00:58:23,928
Do you object to my handling

1093
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,993
do you have any objection
in my relationship with you?

1094
00:58:29,673 --> 00:58:31,334
Do you like it
when she calls you slime?

1095
00:58:32,676 --> 00:58:33,768
She did.

1096
00:58:33,844 --> 00:58:34,936
Did you like it
when she did?

1097
00:58:35,011 --> 00:58:36,444
OK.

1098
00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:37,605
Did you like it when

1099
00:58:37,681 --> 00:58:39,615
The other cases that
I've written about

1100
00:58:39,683 --> 00:58:42,948
those families
have been much stronger.

1101
00:58:43,019 --> 00:58:45,112
First of all,
they've started from

1102
00:58:45,188 --> 00:58:47,782
a monolithic feeling
of innocence

1103
00:58:47,858 --> 00:58:49,291
which didn't exist
in this family

1104
00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:51,020
because of Arnold's pedophilia.

1105
00:58:52,028 --> 00:58:55,293
And they just buckled down

1106
00:58:55,365 --> 00:58:57,959
and everybody gets behind
the defendant

1107
00:58:58,034 --> 00:58:59,296
the accused family member.

1108
00:58:59,369 --> 00:59:00,961
People quit their jobs.

1109
00:59:01,037 --> 00:59:02,299
And, you know

1110
00:59:02,372 --> 00:59:04,465
people were all sitting around
the kitchen table

1111
00:59:04,541 --> 00:59:08,807
for the next 3 years with
staplers and Xerox machines

1112
00:59:08,879 --> 00:59:11,973
and they're working on
the defense.

1113
00:59:12,048 --> 00:59:14,312
And then when the defendant
is convicted

1114
00:59:14,384 --> 00:59:16,318
they're working on the appeal

1115
00:59:16,386 --> 00:59:19,822
and all family conflict
is submerged.

1116
00:59:19,890 --> 00:59:24,156
Why don't you try once
to be supportive of me?

1117
00:59:24,227 --> 00:59:25,489
Well, I'll tell you why.

1118
00:59:25,562 --> 00:59:28,156
Because we all started at
the beginning of this thing

1119
00:59:28,231 --> 00:59:29,994
and I

1120
00:59:30,066 --> 00:59:31,658
Well let's start
from right now.

1121
00:59:31,735 --> 00:59:33,327
OK, let's start
from right now.

1122
00:59:33,403 --> 00:59:34,836
All right, let's start
from right now.

1123
00:59:34,905 --> 00:59:37,999
We'll all start brand new.

1124
00:59:38,074 --> 00:59:41,168
We have a decision making
process on the table.

1125
00:59:41,244 --> 00:59:42,336
Great.

1126
00:59:42,412 --> 00:59:43,504
All the past mistakes,
they were mistakes.

1127
00:59:43,580 --> 00:59:44,672
We're not gonna hold them
against anyone.

1128
00:59:44,748 --> 00:59:45,840
Great, great.

1129
00:59:45,916 --> 00:59:47,076
Now we're starting afresh.

1130
00:59:50,921 --> 00:59:53,253
Stop. Lower your voice,
and talk nicely to your sons.

1131
00:59:54,925 --> 00:59:56,688
Alright, now we're gonna do it,
starting now.

1132
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,193
Seth, why don't you call me?

1133
00:59:58,261 --> 00:59:59,853
Do I bawl you out?

1134
00:59:59,930 --> 01:00:02,524
Seth is

1135
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:03,691
...against me

1136
01:00:03,767 --> 01:00:05,029
and she can't hold it
against me.

1137
01:00:05,101 --> 01:00:07,035
Well, now it's time
to call it

1138
01:00:07,103 --> 01:00:09,435
'cause Mommy's sad
and stuff.

1139
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:38,892
I think there
was a recognition

1140
01:00:38,969 --> 01:00:42,405
that Arnold's case was becoming
increasingly hopeless

1141
01:00:42,472 --> 01:00:44,064
because of the child
pornography problem

1142
01:00:44,140 --> 01:00:47,234
because of other people
coming out of the woodwork.

1143
01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:50,245
So the strategy evolved to

1144
01:00:50,313 --> 01:00:52,304
"What can we do to save Jesse?"

1145
01:00:53,483 --> 01:00:56,919
Jesse's lawyer
very eloquently said to us

1146
01:00:56,987 --> 01:01:00,252
"If there's a rowboat
and it's sinking

1147
01:01:00,323 --> 01:01:03,258
and the rowboat
is tied to a rock

1148
01:01:03,326 --> 01:01:06,090
you have to disconnect
the rowboat from the rock

1149
01:01:06,162 --> 01:01:07,424
and save the rowboat

1150
01:01:07,497 --> 01:01:09,089
even though the rock
is sinking"

1151
01:01:09,165 --> 01:01:12,760
Meaning you had to separate
Arnold from Jesse.

1152
01:01:12,836 --> 01:01:14,770
And Arnold was going to plead

1153
01:01:14,838 --> 01:01:17,671
and Jesse would
in some way benefit.

1154
01:01:18,842 --> 01:01:21,777
I was sitting there
potentially going to trial

1155
01:01:21,845 --> 01:01:24,780
with no pornographic magazines
admitted into evidence

1156
01:01:24,848 --> 01:01:27,612
without an adult pedophile
as a co-defendant

1157
01:01:27,684 --> 01:01:31,620
and I understood
that sort of reasoning

1158
01:01:31,688 --> 01:01:34,623
but it makes no sense
if my father pleads guilty

1159
01:01:34,691 --> 01:01:37,125
and then I go to trial and say,
"I didn't do it"

1160
01:01:37,193 --> 01:01:39,787
when all the jurors have already
read in the newspaper

1161
01:01:39,863 --> 01:01:41,797
that my father plead guilty.

1162
01:01:41,865 --> 01:01:44,527
And I did not want my father
to plead guilty.

1163
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:49,464
I arranged for Mr. Friedman
and his family

1164
01:01:49,539 --> 01:01:52,804
to get a jury room
where they could sit

1165
01:01:52,876 --> 01:01:55,538
and they could discuss
these plea options.

1166
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,474
And while I didn't go
inside the room

1167
01:01:59,549 --> 01:02:02,484
except to knock on the door
and say where we're at

1168
01:02:02,552 --> 01:02:05,146
in terms of what Mr. Friedman
wanted to do

1169
01:02:05,221 --> 01:02:09,988
there was a lot
of yelling and crying

1170
01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:13,154
and screaming going on,
coming out of that room.

1171
01:02:13,229 --> 01:02:14,662
God damn it!

1172
01:02:14,731 --> 01:02:17,825
When I screamed at Arnold,
I screamed

1173
01:02:17,901 --> 01:02:20,335
"You must do it
because it'll help Jesse.

1174
01:02:20,403 --> 01:02:22,166
Do it for Jesse. "

1175
01:02:22,238 --> 01:02:26,834
And my brothers were
just furious at this notion

1176
01:02:26,910 --> 01:02:29,003
that my father would go to court
and plead guilty.

1177
01:02:29,079 --> 01:02:31,513
And at one point
in all of the chaos

1178
01:02:31,581 --> 01:02:34,015
my father
just started screaming.

1179
01:02:34,084 --> 01:02:36,177
And there's
uncontrollable tears

1180
01:02:36,252 --> 01:02:37,514
and he picked up a chair.

1181
01:02:37,587 --> 01:02:39,179
I remember he threw a chair.

1182
01:02:39,255 --> 01:02:41,849
He was just screaming about how
he wasn't gonna plead guilty.

1183
01:02:41,925 --> 01:02:43,688
He didn't do anything,
he's not gonna plead guilty.

1184
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,024
And he was furious
at my mother

1185
01:02:46,096 --> 01:02:49,429
and he was
just freaking out.

1186
01:02:50,767 --> 01:02:54,533
And I remember very clearly

1187
01:02:54,604 --> 01:02:57,368
sitting down with my father
in the corner.

1188
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,533
My mother's over there,
brothers are over here.

1189
01:02:59,609 --> 01:03:01,543
I'm talking to
my father privately

1190
01:03:01,611 --> 01:03:06,708
and he asked me
what he should do.

1191
01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:10,378
And I could have said
to my father

1192
01:03:10,453 --> 01:03:12,216
"I want you just
to walk out of here

1193
01:03:12,288 --> 01:03:14,950
and go to trial
and not plead guilty. "

1194
01:03:16,126 --> 01:03:21,393
Instead, I remember
very clearly saying to him

1195
01:03:21,464 --> 01:03:26,231
I wanted him
to make the decision.

1196
01:03:26,302 --> 01:03:29,066
And I remember feeling like
a really young kid.

1197
01:03:29,139 --> 01:03:31,073
Kind of looking up
to my Dad and saying

1198
01:03:31,141 --> 01:03:34,975
"Dad, I," you know
"I want you to be my Daddy. "

1199
01:03:36,646 --> 01:03:38,238
And I would have been really,
really proud of him

1200
01:03:38,314 --> 01:03:39,576
if he had just
stood up and said

1201
01:03:39,649 --> 01:03:40,911
"Elaine,
I'm not pleading guilty.

1202
01:03:40,984 --> 01:03:42,144
We're going to trial. "

1203
01:03:44,821 --> 01:03:47,153
But that's not what happened.

1204
01:03:49,325 --> 01:03:51,759
Former New York City
schoolteacher Arnold Friedman

1205
01:03:51,828 --> 01:03:53,090
had nothing to say
when he left

1206
01:03:53,163 --> 01:03:55,256
the Nassau County Courthouse
in Mineola

1207
01:03:55,331 --> 01:03:59,597
but inside he pleaded guilty to
more then 40 counts of sodomy

1208
01:03:59,669 --> 01:04:03,435
sexual abuse, and endangering
the welfare of a child.

1209
01:04:03,506 --> 01:04:05,440
Attempted sexual abuse
in the first degree

1210
01:04:05,508 --> 01:04:08,102
an "E" felony, two counts

1211
01:04:08,178 --> 01:04:09,770
and endangering the welfare
of a child

1212
01:04:09,846 --> 01:04:12,110
a class "A" misdemeanor,
one count

1213
01:04:12,182 --> 01:04:13,945
in full satisfaction
of this indictment?

1214
01:04:14,017 --> 01:04:15,109
Yes.

1215
01:04:15,185 --> 01:04:16,618
My mother manipulated him.

1216
01:04:16,686 --> 01:04:17,778
My mother is crazy

1217
01:04:17,854 --> 01:04:19,788
and my mother has control
over my father.

1218
01:04:19,856 --> 01:04:20,948
Some relationships have that

1219
01:04:21,024 --> 01:04:23,117
where the woman
controls the man.

1220
01:04:23,193 --> 01:04:24,285
It's called being pussy whipped.

1221
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:25,622
My father and my mother

1222
01:04:25,695 --> 01:04:26,787
are not the only
two people in the world

1223
01:04:26,863 --> 01:04:27,955
who have that relationship.

1224
01:04:28,031 --> 01:04:29,623
My father and mother
had that relationship.

1225
01:04:29,699 --> 01:04:31,792
My mother and the lawyers said,
"Take the plea. "

1226
01:04:31,868 --> 01:04:33,028
They took the plea.

1227
01:04:34,037 --> 01:04:35,800
I sat there in disbelief.

1228
01:04:35,872 --> 01:04:37,203
Is this my brother?

1229
01:04:38,374 --> 01:04:39,705
My brother?

1230
01:04:40,877 --> 01:04:43,812
This isn't my brother,
he's not a monster.

1231
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:44,972
He's a good loving brother

1232
01:04:45,048 --> 01:04:47,312
and husband, and son,
and citizen, and teacher

1233
01:04:47,383 --> 01:04:49,476
and this isn't happening.

1234
01:04:49,552 --> 01:04:51,816
This is a mistake.

1235
01:04:51,888 --> 01:04:55,654
Something as horrendous
as child molestation

1236
01:04:55,725 --> 01:04:57,659
you have to live with yourself.

1237
01:04:57,727 --> 01:05:00,821
If you didn't do it,
you don't plead guilty.

1238
01:05:00,897 --> 01:05:03,229
I never understood it.

1239
01:05:53,616 --> 01:05:54,776
We have Elaine.

1240
01:05:55,952 --> 01:05:58,887
- Hi.
- We have Teddy, Arnie.

1241
01:05:58,955 --> 01:06:01,116
Number 4753206.

1242
01:06:02,292 --> 01:06:03,884
Don't.
Please don't film me.

1243
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,227
David, I told you
I don't want to be on tape.

1244
01:06:09,299 --> 01:06:10,391
Why are you so

1245
01:06:10,466 --> 01:06:13,060
When we stop talking to her

1246
01:06:13,136 --> 01:06:14,228
She doesn't want

1247
01:06:14,304 --> 01:06:16,238
She doesn't want any record,
any record at all

1248
01:06:16,306 --> 01:06:17,398
As if they were

1249
01:06:17,473 --> 01:06:18,565
Can you believe these kids,

1250
01:06:18,641 --> 01:06:19,903
that they have to persecute me?

1251
01:06:19,976 --> 01:06:21,568
David, if your mother
doesn't want to be filmed

1252
01:06:21,644 --> 01:06:22,736
don't film her.

1253
01:06:22,812 --> 01:06:24,746
- OK.
- Come on.

1254
01:06:24,814 --> 01:06:28,910
When it was all over,
they said it was all my fault

1255
01:06:28,985 --> 01:06:32,421
because I wanted them
to take a plea and

1256
01:06:32,488 --> 01:06:34,080
it had been arranged before.

1257
01:06:34,157 --> 01:06:36,648
Arnold agreed
to take a plea

1258
01:06:38,661 --> 01:06:40,151
but they were very hurt.

1259
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:45,592
I'm still here.

1260
01:06:45,668 --> 01:06:46,930
Yeah.

1261
01:06:47,003 --> 01:06:48,095
I may not be here
very much longer

1262
01:06:48,171 --> 01:06:49,331
but I'm still here.

1263
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,435
That's disturbed.

1264
01:06:54,510 --> 01:06:56,944
The sentence:
10 to 30 years.

1265
01:06:57,013 --> 01:06:59,607
The crime:
Sodomizing young boys.

1266
01:06:59,682 --> 01:07:01,946
Defendant Arnold Friedman
had pleaded guilty

1267
01:07:02,018 --> 01:07:04,953
to sexually abusing
more than a dozen youngsters,

1268
01:07:05,021 --> 01:07:07,114
but this does not end
the Friedman case.

1269
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:09,624
There are still numerous sodomy
and sex abuse charges

1270
01:07:09,692 --> 01:07:12,354
pending against Arnold's son,
Jesse Friedman.

1271
01:07:22,372 --> 01:07:24,966
I mean we could try this case
in the media.

1272
01:07:25,041 --> 01:07:28,977
Who's gonna, who's gonna buy
that I sodomized boys?

1273
01:07:29,045 --> 01:07:30,637
Yeah, I agree with you.
I agree with you.

1274
01:07:30,713 --> 01:07:31,805
No, I really

1275
01:07:31,881 --> 01:07:32,973
Well, I don't think
we have to try

1276
01:07:33,049 --> 01:07:34,209
well, all I want to do

1277
01:07:37,887 --> 01:07:39,821
We didn't make a deal
with Arnold Friedman

1278
01:07:39,889 --> 01:07:41,322
to spare his son.

1279
01:07:41,391 --> 01:07:44,155
So his son is facing
a multiple count indictment

1280
01:07:44,227 --> 01:07:46,661
he's facing a considerable
amount of jail time

1281
01:07:46,729 --> 01:07:48,663
and now he's confronted
with a situation

1282
01:07:48,731 --> 01:07:50,665
where Long Island knows

1283
01:07:50,733 --> 01:07:53,998
that his father admitted
his guilt

1284
01:07:54,070 --> 01:07:56,664
and there's a reasonable
human expectation

1285
01:07:56,739 --> 01:07:59,173
of some people that,
you know

1286
01:07:59,242 --> 01:08:00,504
where there's smoke,
there's fire.

1287
01:08:00,576 --> 01:08:03,010
And if he did it,
maybe his son did it.

1288
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:04,842
We know he was
in the same class

1289
01:08:04,914 --> 01:08:06,347
and he was helping his father.

1290
01:08:06,416 --> 01:08:08,680
So I think that
was a difficult thing

1291
01:08:08,751 --> 01:08:10,412
for Jesse to
have to overcome.

1292
01:08:34,444 --> 01:08:37,038
I always believed Jesse.

1293
01:08:37,113 --> 01:08:40,207
How could this possibly
go on for 4 years

1294
01:08:40,283 --> 01:08:45,380
children repeatedly sodomized
and sexually abused

1295
01:08:45,455 --> 01:08:48,720
with brutality
if you believe the police.

1296
01:08:48,791 --> 01:08:50,053
And then their parents come
to pick them up

1297
01:08:50,126 --> 01:08:53,391
right after computer class
and not one kid is crying

1298
01:08:53,463 --> 01:08:55,055
not one kid tells
his mother or father

1299
01:08:55,131 --> 01:08:56,564
what happened in class

1300
01:08:56,632 --> 01:08:58,896
not one kid says anything?

1301
01:08:58,968 --> 01:09:01,061
I find that so incredible

1302
01:09:01,137 --> 01:09:02,729
that Jesse's story
that nothing happened

1303
01:09:02,805 --> 01:09:06,400
to me was more believable
than the police version

1304
01:09:06,476 --> 01:09:08,467
of these horrific acts.

1305
01:09:14,150 --> 01:09:15,412
Jesse and I went

1306
01:09:15,485 --> 01:09:18,921
we flew in August of 1988

1307
01:09:18,988 --> 01:09:21,752
all the way
to Madison, Wisconsin

1308
01:09:21,824 --> 01:09:25,920
where we rented a car
and drove 90 miles

1309
01:09:25,995 --> 01:09:28,930
to some town that I couldn't
possibly give you the name of

1310
01:09:28,998 --> 01:09:31,091
to a federal prison.

1311
01:09:31,167 --> 01:09:33,431
Who knew more about this case
then Arnold Friedman?

1312
01:09:33,503 --> 01:09:34,663
He knew more about
it than Jesse.

1313
01:09:35,838 --> 01:09:37,499
I had to wait 40 minutes

1314
01:09:38,674 --> 01:09:42,770
because Arnie was either
playing tennis or golf

1315
01:09:42,845 --> 01:09:43,937
I don't remember what it was.

1316
01:09:44,013 --> 01:09:45,173
I was outraged.

1317
01:09:46,682 --> 01:09:47,842
It was a visiting room.

1318
01:09:49,852 --> 01:09:54,789
Jesse was out in the waiting
room at this point

1319
01:09:54,857 --> 01:10:00,454
and this man had this little boy
in there who was his son

1320
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:02,794
or his stepson,
I don't know

1321
01:10:02,865 --> 01:10:05,629
but the child was about
4 or 5 years old

1322
01:10:05,701 --> 01:10:08,295
and they were in the table
right next to us.

1323
01:10:08,371 --> 01:10:10,635
And I was interviewing Arnie

1324
01:10:10,706 --> 01:10:13,470
and all of a sudden
he leaned over and asked me

1325
01:10:13,543 --> 01:10:15,477
if I could ask
the corrections officer

1326
01:10:15,545 --> 01:10:17,479
or whoever was in charge
in the room

1327
01:10:17,547 --> 01:10:19,481
if we could get another table.

1328
01:10:19,549 --> 01:10:22,211
And I asked him why,
and he said

1329
01:10:24,387 --> 01:10:27,982
"That little boy over there
bouncing on his father's lap

1330
01:10:28,057 --> 01:10:29,547
is getting me very excited. "

1331
01:10:31,727 --> 01:10:34,821
It took me about 15 minutes
to regain my composure.

1332
01:10:34,897 --> 01:10:36,489
I remember that
like it was yesterday.

1333
01:10:36,566 --> 01:10:38,158
I was shocked

1334
01:10:38,234 --> 01:10:39,997
'cause even though I was
involved in the case now

1335
01:10:40,069 --> 01:10:41,161
for two months

1336
01:10:41,237 --> 01:10:43,831
and even though
I had studied pedophilia

1337
01:10:43,906 --> 01:10:47,501
and I knew what these men
did to little boys

1338
01:10:47,577 --> 01:10:50,569
I had never heard somebody
actually say it.

1339
01:10:52,081 --> 01:10:56,916
And I was absolutely disgusted.

1340
01:10:58,754 --> 01:11:02,019
We did change our table
and I spoke to Arnie.

1341
01:11:02,091 --> 01:11:04,787
I interviewed him
for a very long time.

1342
01:11:04,860 --> 01:11:07,021
He was telling me
that the only reason

1343
01:11:07,096 --> 01:11:10,532
he pled guilty
and went to jail

1344
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:14,866
was because he wanted
to save his son, Jesse.

1345
01:11:14,937 --> 01:11:18,202
He told me that he was
a pedophile.

1346
01:11:18,274 --> 01:11:23,541
He told me that he had
had activity with boys

1347
01:11:23,613 --> 01:11:25,444
but not in Great Neck.

1348
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,377
He told me that he had a house
in Wading River

1349
01:11:30,453 --> 01:11:32,045
a beach resort

1350
01:11:32,121 --> 01:11:36,114
and that the family
enjoyed vacations there.

1351
01:11:38,127 --> 01:11:43,724
And he told me that
there were certain boys

1352
01:11:43,799 --> 01:11:44,891
he took liberties with

1353
01:11:44,967 --> 01:11:46,901
and I don't want
to go into it

1354
01:11:46,969 --> 01:11:50,132
while he was in that area.

1355
01:11:51,641 --> 01:11:53,734
"In my early 40s,
during the summer

1356
01:11:53,809 --> 01:11:56,403
I did go 'over the line'

1357
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,915
and did have sexually arousing
contact with two boys

1358
01:11:59,982 --> 01:12:01,415
short of sodomy.

1359
01:12:01,484 --> 01:12:03,748
One of the boys was the son
of a close friend

1360
01:12:03,819 --> 01:12:06,754
and I feared exposure
and loss of this friendship.

1361
01:12:06,822 --> 01:12:08,255
The boy might have
told his parents

1362
01:12:08,324 --> 01:12:09,416
but they said nothing

1363
01:12:09,492 --> 01:12:12,222
so I assumed that
he really had not told them. "

1364
01:12:12,295 --> 01:12:14,422
That's what? It's one sentence.
What does that mean?

1365
01:12:14,497 --> 01:12:16,260
Do you fucking know
what that sentence means?

1366
01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,926
I don't even fucking know
what that sentence means.

1367
01:12:19,001 --> 01:12:20,434
I "sexually aroused?"

1368
01:12:20,503 --> 01:12:22,596
What the fuck
is he talking about?

1369
01:12:22,672 --> 01:12:24,264
Maybe he put his arm
around the kid.

1370
01:12:24,340 --> 01:12:26,274
Maybe he took him
in a sailboat

1371
01:12:26,342 --> 01:12:28,276
and he found that
sexually arousing?

1372
01:12:28,344 --> 01:12:29,936
Maybe he was leaning
against a tree.

1373
01:12:30,012 --> 01:12:31,775
That's called
sexually arousing contact

1374
01:12:31,847 --> 01:12:34,441
if you're sexually aroused
while you lean against a tree.

1375
01:12:34,517 --> 01:12:35,609
I don't know what that means.

1376
01:12:35,685 --> 01:12:36,845
I don't know
what that sentence means.

1377
01:12:38,187 --> 01:12:40,951
When Arnold was first arrested,
he said

1378
01:12:41,023 --> 01:12:43,617
"I'm arrested because
of this magazine.

1379
01:12:43,693 --> 01:12:46,287
I sent one magazine
in the mail

1380
01:12:46,362 --> 01:12:48,956
and that's why I'm arrested,
and it's nothing.

1381
01:12:49,031 --> 01:12:50,293
It's just nothing.

1382
01:12:50,366 --> 01:12:52,129
It doesn't count,
it doesn't matter

1383
01:12:52,201 --> 01:12:53,634
it's nothing. "

1384
01:12:53,703 --> 01:12:56,797
And you know, you live
as husband and wife

1385
01:12:56,872 --> 01:12:59,136
you share certain intimacies.

1386
01:12:59,208 --> 01:13:01,472
I said to him,
"Tell me the truth.

1387
01:13:01,544 --> 01:13:02,636
What happened?"

1388
01:13:02,712 --> 01:13:04,304
He says, "That's it.
That's the truth. "

1389
01:13:04,380 --> 01:13:09,716
So it came out that he had
in fact molested a young man.

1390
01:13:11,387 --> 01:13:14,823
And we were sitting
in the therapist's office

1391
01:13:14,890 --> 01:13:20,829
and he said,
"Oh, I just molested two boys. "

1392
01:13:20,896 --> 01:13:23,330
And I said, "Two? Two?"

1393
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:26,732
I said, "I thought
you told me only one. "

1394
01:13:28,404 --> 01:13:32,841
"Well," you know, and he

1395
01:13:32,908 --> 01:13:36,002
"It didn't matter.
It's nothing," you know.

1396
01:13:36,078 --> 01:13:37,739
And then I went berserk.

1397
01:13:38,581 --> 01:13:40,071
And I felt betrayed.

1398
01:13:41,250 --> 01:13:43,514
Yeah, my father
had the magazines

1399
01:13:43,586 --> 01:13:46,680
and yes, my father admitted
that he was a pedophile

1400
01:13:46,756 --> 01:13:48,189
and had these fantasies

1401
01:13:48,257 --> 01:13:51,192
and yes, my father admitted
that he was no saint

1402
01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:53,694
and that there were times
that he slipped

1403
01:13:53,763 --> 01:13:55,697
but I was arrested, too

1404
01:13:55,765 --> 01:13:58,256
and I'm not a child molester.

1405
01:13:59,435 --> 01:14:01,869
And I don't think
it's appropriate

1406
01:14:01,937 --> 01:14:04,599
for me to have to answer
for the sins of my father.

1407
01:14:14,116 --> 01:14:15,208
This is what I walk around with.

1408
01:14:15,284 --> 01:14:16,376
It's just, every day.

1409
01:14:16,452 --> 01:14:18,215
It's just ridiculous.

1410
01:14:18,287 --> 01:14:21,381
All I think about is the case
and my career

1411
01:14:21,457 --> 01:14:24,119
and they're completely,
it's like oil and water.

1412
01:14:28,297 --> 01:14:30,128
With the case,
it's a question of research.

1413
01:14:31,467 --> 01:14:32,729
My brother's been in
the law library

1414
01:14:32,802 --> 01:14:36,397
researching his current plan

1415
01:14:36,472 --> 01:14:38,804
and I'm supposed to go out
and make people laugh.

1416
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:49,247
It's unbelievably difficult
to deal with the case

1417
01:14:49,318 --> 01:14:54,415
and then go out
and entertain people.

1418
01:14:54,490 --> 01:14:55,582
Hey!

1419
01:14:55,658 --> 01:14:56,818
Hi, everyone!

1420
01:15:00,329 --> 01:15:04,425
We carefully investigated
this case for trial.

1421
01:15:04,500 --> 01:15:08,266
Really get into the case,
examine, investigate

1422
01:15:08,337 --> 01:15:10,271
and try to build a defense.

1423
01:15:10,339 --> 01:15:11,931
While I was out on bail

1424
01:15:12,007 --> 01:15:13,941
I put all the charges
into a database

1425
01:15:14,009 --> 01:15:16,603
so that they could be
sorted by complainant

1426
01:15:16,679 --> 01:15:20,171
by time period,
by nature of charge.

1427
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:23,784
For example,
there was one complainant

1428
01:15:23,853 --> 01:15:25,115
10-year-old boy

1429
01:15:25,187 --> 01:15:27,951
says he came to class
in the spring of 1986

1430
01:15:28,023 --> 01:15:29,456
and during
this 10-week session

1431
01:15:29,525 --> 01:15:31,117
where he was
only over my house

1432
01:15:31,193 --> 01:15:33,127
for an hour and a half
once a week

1433
01:15:33,195 --> 01:15:38,792
he says that there were
31 instances of sexual contact.

1434
01:15:38,868 --> 01:15:41,302
That's 3 times a week

1435
01:15:41,370 --> 01:15:42,632
every single week...

1436
01:15:42,705 --> 01:15:44,639
for 10 straight weeks

1437
01:15:44,707 --> 01:15:46,971
and then the course ends.

1438
01:15:47,042 --> 01:15:51,479
In the fall, he re-enrolled
for the advanced course

1439
01:15:51,547 --> 01:15:56,314
and says that he was subjected
to 41 more instances

1440
01:15:56,385 --> 01:15:59,650
of anal and oral sodomy
in the next 10-week session

1441
01:15:59,722 --> 01:16:01,485
and nobody said anything.

1442
01:16:01,557 --> 01:16:02,990
Week after week,
month after month

1443
01:16:03,058 --> 01:16:04,491
year after year

1444
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,653
until after the police
came knocking on doors

1445
01:16:06,729 --> 01:16:07,889
and asking questions.

1446
01:16:26,582 --> 01:16:27,674
I went to the doorbell.

1447
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:29,342
There were two
Nassau County detectives

1448
01:16:29,418 --> 01:16:31,852
and they said they'd like to
speak to our son

1449
01:16:31,921 --> 01:16:35,015
with regard to
the Friedman matter.

1450
01:16:35,090 --> 01:16:38,355
They came in and said, "We know
something happened to him. "

1451
01:16:38,427 --> 01:16:39,689
They didn't say, "We believe. "

1452
01:16:39,762 --> 01:16:42,697
They said, "We know. "

1453
01:16:42,765 --> 01:16:45,029
And they wanted
to speak to him.

1454
01:16:45,100 --> 01:16:47,193
I remember it was actually kind
of a frightening experience

1455
01:16:47,269 --> 01:16:48,702
because I remember
they're talking

1456
01:16:48,771 --> 01:16:52,537
to my parents about this
within earshot of me.

1457
01:16:52,608 --> 01:16:54,041
I remember actually
eavesdropping

1458
01:16:54,109 --> 01:16:56,202
on what they said

1459
01:16:56,278 --> 01:16:59,213
and what they said
made my heart race

1460
01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,714
because they were saying

1461
01:17:00,783 --> 01:17:03,877
that actually quite
a few horrible things

1462
01:17:03,953 --> 01:17:05,147
had happened to
a lot of children

1463
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:07,051
and I was one of them.

1464
01:17:07,122 --> 01:17:10,558
And quite honestly,
I didn't believe it

1465
01:17:10,626 --> 01:17:14,392
and I was very confused
and very angry about this,

1466
01:17:14,463 --> 01:17:15,555
thinking, well,
why are these people

1467
01:17:15,631 --> 01:17:18,395
going around
telling my parents

1468
01:17:18,467 --> 01:17:19,900
that all kinds of
things have happened

1469
01:17:19,969 --> 01:17:24,235
when I have simply no
recollection of anything?

1470
01:17:24,306 --> 01:17:26,900
Children want
to please very often.

1471
01:17:26,976 --> 01:17:29,069
They want to give you
the answers that you want.

1472
01:17:29,144 --> 01:17:30,907
Adults do that as well.

1473
01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:33,073
So you have to be
very mindful of the fact

1474
01:17:33,148 --> 01:17:35,082
that when you're
interviewing a child

1475
01:17:35,150 --> 01:17:37,914
if the child starts
to answer questions

1476
01:17:37,987 --> 01:17:40,421
your responses should be
somewhat in the framework of

1477
01:17:40,489 --> 01:17:41,751
"And then what happened?"

1478
01:17:41,824 --> 01:17:43,086
Or, "What happened next?"

1479
01:17:43,158 --> 01:17:44,921
Or, "What do you remember then?"

1480
01:17:44,994 --> 01:17:46,086
As opposed to

1481
01:17:46,161 --> 01:17:48,322
"He did this to you,
didn't he?"

1482
01:17:49,331 --> 01:17:51,322
Or "She did this to you,
didn't she?"

1483
01:17:52,334 --> 01:17:54,598
That's a very,
very dangerous type

1484
01:17:54,670 --> 01:17:56,604
of interview process to use.

1485
01:17:56,672 --> 01:17:58,105
If you talk to
a lot of children

1486
01:17:58,173 --> 01:17:59,936
you don't give them
an option, really.

1487
01:18:00,009 --> 01:18:02,102
You just, you be
pretty honest with them.

1488
01:18:02,177 --> 01:18:04,771
You have to tell them
pretty honestly that

1489
01:18:04,847 --> 01:18:07,441
"We know you went
to Mr. Friedman's class.

1490
01:18:07,516 --> 01:18:09,450
We know how many times
you've been to the class. "

1491
01:18:09,518 --> 01:18:11,782
You know, we go through
the whole routine.

1492
01:18:11,854 --> 01:18:14,448
"We know that there
was a good chance

1493
01:18:14,523 --> 01:18:16,787
that he touched you
or Jesse touched you

1494
01:18:16,859 --> 01:18:19,123
or somebody in that family
touched you

1495
01:18:19,194 --> 01:18:21,128
in a very inappropriate way. "

1496
01:18:21,196 --> 01:18:23,460
And I listened
to them talking to him

1497
01:18:23,532 --> 01:18:26,467
and it got to a point

1498
01:18:26,535 --> 01:18:29,629
where it wasn't
asking him what happened.

1499
01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,471
It was more of them
telling him what happened

1500
01:18:33,542 --> 01:18:38,309
and that when they didn't
like what he said

1501
01:18:38,380 --> 01:18:42,476
they kept repeating to him
that they know what happened

1502
01:18:42,551 --> 01:18:43,711
and that he should tell.

1503
01:18:45,220 --> 01:18:48,815
I believe that I remember saying
that I saw Jesse, like

1504
01:18:48,891 --> 01:18:51,325
chase after a kid or hit a kid
or something like that

1505
01:18:51,393 --> 01:18:54,055
and that's what I testified to
to the grand jury.

1506
01:18:55,898 --> 01:19:00,335
And I remember saying
that because I felt

1507
01:19:00,402 --> 01:19:01,835
and I feel like
when I said that

1508
01:19:01,904 --> 01:19:05,499
that ended the questioning.

1509
01:19:05,574 --> 01:19:07,667
And so that might
have meant that

1510
01:19:07,743 --> 01:19:09,005
you could infer maybe
that they were asking me

1511
01:19:09,078 --> 01:19:10,841
a lot of questions,
trying to get something

1512
01:19:10,913 --> 01:19:14,508
and I just wanted
to give them something.

1513
01:19:14,583 --> 01:19:16,016
I mean I don't want to be

1514
01:19:16,085 --> 01:19:17,347
say I'm a perjurer
or anything

1515
01:19:17,419 --> 01:19:22,186
but I did not observe
anything like that happening.

1516
01:19:22,257 --> 01:19:23,588
What I do remember is

1517
01:19:23,659 --> 01:19:26,184
the detectives putting me under
a lot of pressure to speak up.

1518
01:19:26,261 --> 01:19:28,195
And at some point,
I kind of broke down.

1519
01:19:28,263 --> 01:19:29,855
I started crying.

1520
01:19:29,932 --> 01:19:32,867
And when I started
to tell them things

1521
01:19:32,935 --> 01:19:37,201
I was telling myself
that it's not true.

1522
01:19:37,272 --> 01:19:38,864
I was telling myself,
"Just say this to them

1523
01:19:38,941 --> 01:19:40,431
in order to get them
off your back. "

1524
01:19:48,283 --> 01:19:49,716
I came across a document

1525
01:19:49,785 --> 01:19:52,049
regarding a group of children
from the Friedman case

1526
01:19:52,121 --> 01:19:53,554
who were in therapy

1527
01:19:53,622 --> 01:19:55,055
and it stated
that many of them

1528
01:19:55,124 --> 01:19:58,116
had absolutely no recollection
of the abuse

1529
01:19:59,128 --> 01:20:00,561
and there was some discussion

1530
01:20:00,629 --> 01:20:04,725
about whether hypnosis
would be a good idea now,

1531
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,234
exactly what you're not
supposed to do.

1532
01:20:07,302 --> 01:20:08,599
It was the kind of therapy

1533
01:20:08,670 --> 01:20:11,070
that had a really good chance
of messing up kids' memories

1534
01:20:11,140 --> 01:20:12,801
and implanting false memories.

1535
01:20:15,811 --> 01:20:17,472
My parents put me
in therapy right away.

1536
01:20:18,981 --> 01:20:20,073
They put me in hypnosis

1537
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:22,242
and tried to recall facts
that I had buried.

1538
01:20:22,317 --> 01:20:25,411
And that's how I first came out,
started talking about it,

1539
01:20:25,487 --> 01:20:27,478
just through being hypnotized
and everything

1540
01:20:28,991 --> 01:20:30,925
I recalled things
that I would bury.

1541
01:20:30,993 --> 01:20:33,086
I was able to talk about them.

1542
01:20:33,162 --> 01:20:34,925
For example, what would be
something that you recall?

1543
01:20:34,997 --> 01:20:36,089
The actual first time

1544
01:20:36,165 --> 01:20:39,657
I actually recalled
that I was actually molested.

1545
01:20:41,336 --> 01:20:42,928
Wow, I was actually molested.

1546
01:20:43,005 --> 01:20:44,768
I can deal with it now.

1547
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:46,273
That was the first time.

1548
01:20:46,341 --> 01:20:48,775
And you recalled through
hypnosis the first episode?

1549
01:20:48,844 --> 01:20:49,936
Yes.

1550
01:20:50,012 --> 01:20:51,604
So tell me about that,
if you remember.

1551
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:53,011
I don't remember much about it.

1552
01:20:54,016 --> 01:20:55,950
It was so long ago.

1553
01:20:56,018 --> 01:20:59,613
I just remember that
I went through hypnosis

1554
01:20:59,688 --> 01:21:01,349
came out,
and it was in my mind.

1555
01:21:07,696 --> 01:21:09,129
19-year-old Jesse Friedman

1556
01:21:09,198 --> 01:21:12,133
was arraigned on more than
198 additional counts

1557
01:21:12,201 --> 01:21:13,793
of child sexual abuse.

1558
01:21:13,869 --> 01:21:19,307
This brings the total number of
sexual abuse charges to 245.

1559
01:21:19,374 --> 01:21:21,968
Jesse was grossly overcharged

1560
01:21:22,044 --> 01:21:25,138
and you're basically
terrorizing the defendant.

1561
01:21:25,214 --> 01:21:26,647
You're telling the defendant

1562
01:21:26,715 --> 01:21:28,478
"Look, if you plead guilty

1563
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:30,313
you know,
we'll give you a good deal

1564
01:21:30,385 --> 01:21:33,149
and, on,
you know, 2 charges.

1565
01:21:33,222 --> 01:21:34,814
But if you insist
on going to trial

1566
01:21:34,890 --> 01:21:37,324
we're going to put
1,003 charges on you.

1567
01:21:37,392 --> 01:21:39,826
And if you're convicted
of all those charges

1568
01:21:39,895 --> 01:21:42,056
you're gonna rot in jail
the rest of your life. "

1569
01:21:43,065 --> 01:21:47,161
I was told that
if he went to trial

1570
01:21:47,236 --> 01:21:52,572
the judge would give
3 consecutive sentences.

1571
01:21:53,575 --> 01:21:55,338
Instead of concurrent

1572
01:21:55,410 --> 01:21:57,503
the sentencing
would be consecutive.

1573
01:21:57,579 --> 01:21:58,910
I said, "Oh, my god. "

1574
01:22:00,415 --> 01:22:02,349
She just kept telling me
over and over

1575
01:22:02,417 --> 01:22:04,351
"The only thing to do
is to plead guilty

1576
01:22:04,419 --> 01:22:05,443
and to get the
best deal you can.

1577
01:22:05,587 --> 01:22:06,679
You can't go to trial.

1578
01:22:06,755 --> 01:22:08,518
It doesn't matter
if you're guilty or innocent.

1579
01:22:08,590 --> 01:22:10,854
You can't go to trial,
because if you go to trial

1580
01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:13,019
you're gonna go to prison
for the rest of your life. "

1581
01:22:13,095 --> 01:22:14,357
I said, "But Ma,
I didn't do it. "

1582
01:22:14,429 --> 01:22:15,521
She said,
"That doesn't matter.

1583
01:22:15,597 --> 01:22:16,928
You have to plead guilty. "

1584
01:22:18,267 --> 01:22:22,533
You have to understand,
this is a 19-year-old kid

1585
01:22:22,604 --> 01:22:28,201
and he is now facing the most
heinous charge known to man

1586
01:22:28,277 --> 01:22:32,213
and everyone in the world

1587
01:22:32,281 --> 01:22:36,615
slowly but surely,
was turning against him.

1588
01:22:40,289 --> 01:22:41,722
I don't care about my parents.

1589
01:22:41,790 --> 01:22:43,280
I wish it was just my brothers.

1590
01:22:46,128 --> 01:22:47,720
Oh, fuck.

1591
01:22:47,796 --> 01:22:49,787
I don't care about my mother,
that's for sure.

1592
01:22:50,966 --> 01:22:52,228
If my brothers were OK

1593
01:22:52,301 --> 01:22:54,735
then my mother could go
to fucking hell.

1594
01:22:54,803 --> 01:22:56,566
My father is not going
to survive

1595
01:22:56,638 --> 01:23:00,574
if my brother
gets incarcerated.

1596
01:23:00,642 --> 01:23:02,735
So

1597
01:23:02,811 --> 01:23:07,578
so when the guilty verdict
comes in on Jesse

1598
01:23:07,649 --> 01:23:09,412
my father's
gonna kill himself.

1599
01:23:09,484 --> 01:23:12,078
Jesse's gonna go to jail
for the rest of his life.

1600
01:23:12,154 --> 01:23:13,815
Seth is gonna move west.

1601
01:23:16,325 --> 01:23:17,815
Fuck fuck.

1602
01:23:23,665 --> 01:23:27,601
I received a telephone call
from Jesse asking to see me

1603
01:23:27,669 --> 01:23:31,105
and Jesse told me
that he wanted to plead guilty.

1604
01:23:31,173 --> 01:23:36,110
In 1988, there was no way
that a jury in Nassau County

1605
01:23:36,178 --> 01:23:38,112
who had been reading
the newspaper headlines

1606
01:23:38,180 --> 01:23:40,273
in "Newsday" for over a year

1607
01:23:40,349 --> 01:23:42,613
those people were never
going to listen

1608
01:23:42,684 --> 01:23:45,278
to anything
the defense had to say

1609
01:23:45,354 --> 01:23:47,117
and I was absolutely
terrified

1610
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:48,850
of going to prison
for 100 years.

1611
01:23:50,625 --> 01:23:53,116
Jesse had always
maintained his innocence.

1612
01:23:53,195 --> 01:23:56,460
I don't work out deals
for people who are innocent.

1613
01:23:56,531 --> 01:24:00,797
And my first reaction was,
"I'm not gonna do it.

1614
01:24:00,869 --> 01:24:03,030
You're not guilty,
you're not pleading guilty. "

1615
01:24:04,373 --> 01:24:07,137
And at that point,
he told me that

1616
01:24:07,209 --> 01:24:08,540
"I have something to tell you. "

1617
01:24:10,379 --> 01:24:13,974
And with tears rolling down
his eyes, literally

1618
01:24:14,049 --> 01:24:20,477
he told me that he was abused by
his father growing up

1619
01:24:20,555 --> 01:24:24,651
and that while he never enjoyed
the sexual part of that

1620
01:24:24,726 --> 01:24:26,990
he did enjoy the attention
his father gave him

1621
01:24:27,062 --> 01:24:28,393
and being with his father

1622
01:24:30,232 --> 01:24:35,169
and that not everything
he had said

1623
01:24:35,237 --> 01:24:38,832
about nothing happened
was true.

1624
01:24:38,907 --> 01:24:41,842
Peter Panaro
was personally convinced

1625
01:24:41,910 --> 01:24:44,174
that my father
had sexually abused me

1626
01:24:44,246 --> 01:24:45,508
and nothing I could say

1627
01:24:45,580 --> 01:24:48,344
could dissuade Peter
from this notion.

1628
01:24:48,417 --> 01:24:53,354
Jesse felt that
if Judge Boklan knew

1629
01:24:53,422 --> 01:24:57,518
that he also was a victim
of his father

1630
01:24:57,592 --> 01:25:01,028
that she might consider
the plea negotiations

1631
01:25:01,096 --> 01:25:04,031
in a more favorable way.

1632
01:25:04,099 --> 01:25:06,363
He came up with this strategy.

1633
01:25:06,435 --> 01:25:09,029
It was Peter Panaro's
fictionalized story

1634
01:25:09,104 --> 01:25:10,366
that he fed to me

1635
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:13,966
and said, "If you say this,
it's gonna look good for you. "

1636
01:25:14,042 --> 01:25:15,304
I told him
I wouldn't do it.

1637
01:25:15,377 --> 01:25:19,040
I told him, "Jesse, when you
plead guilty in open court

1638
01:25:19,114 --> 01:25:20,547
you're gonna have to admit

1639
01:25:20,615 --> 01:25:24,210
to this type
of anal sodomy 14 times.

1640
01:25:24,286 --> 01:25:26,379
And I'm not gonna
let you do that

1641
01:25:26,455 --> 01:25:27,615
unless you can admit it. "

1642
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:30,382
He looked me
right in the eye

1643
01:25:30,459 --> 01:25:32,051
always liked to call me
by my name

1644
01:25:32,127 --> 01:25:33,389
before he made a statement

1645
01:25:33,462 --> 01:25:37,728
and said,
"Peter, I can admit it. "

1646
01:25:37,799 --> 01:25:40,893
The only concern
that Peter Panaro had

1647
01:25:40,969 --> 01:25:43,403
was that ethically
as a lawyer

1648
01:25:43,472 --> 01:25:46,066
he couldn't let
his client go into court

1649
01:25:46,141 --> 01:25:48,075
and say something happened

1650
01:25:48,143 --> 01:25:52,477
that he knew his client
had told him was a lie.

1651
01:25:58,487 --> 01:26:01,422
The private investigator wasn't
coming up with anything helpful.

1652
01:26:01,490 --> 01:26:03,583
There was not gonna be
any defense witnesses.

1653
01:26:03,658 --> 01:26:06,252
There wasn't any money
to hire experts.

1654
01:26:06,328 --> 01:26:09,092
Mom was insistent upon
there not being a trial.

1655
01:26:09,164 --> 01:26:11,257
Peter Panaro
wasn't believing me

1656
01:26:11,333 --> 01:26:13,824
no matter how many times
I told him nothing happened.

1657
01:26:20,175 --> 01:26:21,836
I just ran out of options.

1658
01:26:29,017 --> 01:26:31,008
Jesse was a very good baby.

1659
01:26:33,522 --> 01:26:36,787
I remember when we brought him
home from the hospital

1660
01:26:36,858 --> 01:26:40,624
and Arnie looked at
that baby and he said

1661
01:26:40,695 --> 01:26:42,959
"That child is marvelous.

1662
01:26:43,031 --> 01:26:44,623
He's wonderful"

1663
01:26:44,699 --> 01:26:46,690
and he was so thrilled.

1664
01:26:50,872 --> 01:26:54,137
And David was the big brother

1665
01:26:54,209 --> 01:26:56,871
and he used to
take care of Jesse.

1666
01:26:58,547 --> 01:27:00,640
We used to let
David watch him

1667
01:27:00,715 --> 01:27:04,549
and he was very protective
of his baby brother.

1668
01:27:11,893 --> 01:27:13,053
It's amazing.

1669
01:27:14,396 --> 01:27:15,829
Six months from now

1670
01:27:15,897 --> 01:27:18,832
I already don't have
a father or a mother.

1671
01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:21,232
Six months from now
I'm not gonna have my brother.

1672
01:27:23,738 --> 01:27:25,171
If I ever watch this

1673
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:26,673
I don't know when it's gonna be.

1674
01:27:26,741 --> 01:27:28,732
I don't know where I'm gonna be.

1675
01:27:31,246 --> 01:27:33,339
I don't know what's
gonna happen to my family.

1676
01:27:33,415 --> 01:27:34,746
I'm so scared.

1677
01:27:56,104 --> 01:27:59,039
I don't want to have
to spend the next 8 hours

1678
01:27:59,107 --> 01:28:01,041
screaming with my sons
and fighting with them.

1679
01:28:01,109 --> 01:28:02,542
Then don't.

1680
01:28:02,611 --> 01:28:05,546
I want them out of this house
tomorrow morning.

1681
01:28:05,614 --> 01:28:07,206
Mom

1682
01:28:07,282 --> 01:28:08,544
I don't give a shit.

1683
01:28:08,617 --> 01:28:10,380
I want you out of this house
tomorrow morning.

1684
01:28:10,452 --> 01:28:11,714
You may not
give a shit about Jesse

1685
01:28:11,786 --> 01:28:13,879
but we are here for Jesse.

1686
01:28:13,955 --> 01:28:16,719
What are you all
talking about here?

1687
01:28:16,791 --> 01:28:18,554
Can't you put your anger aside
for one minute?

1688
01:28:18,627 --> 01:28:22,723
I cannot put my anger aside
about you.

1689
01:28:22,797 --> 01:28:26,233
You have been nothing but
hateful, hostile, and angry

1690
01:28:26,301 --> 01:28:28,292
ever since this began.

1691
01:28:29,638 --> 01:28:31,401
OK, Jess, we're on.

1692
01:28:31,473 --> 01:28:33,737
Ta da. I feel like shit.

1693
01:28:33,808 --> 01:28:35,241
What's today's date?

1694
01:28:35,310 --> 01:28:38,074
Today's the day
before I went to jail.

1695
01:28:38,146 --> 01:28:39,909
"Went" to jail?

1696
01:28:39,981 --> 01:28:41,414
- I'm going to jail.
- Because we're watching it.

1697
01:28:41,483 --> 01:28:43,747
We're gonna be watching this
after I'm already out of jail.

1698
01:28:43,818 --> 01:28:46,082
After 4, 41/2 years

1699
01:28:46,154 --> 01:28:47,746
because the case gets reopened.

1700
01:28:47,822 --> 01:28:51,258
At this point in time,
my life is as good as over.

1701
01:28:51,326 --> 01:28:54,659
It is terminated at this point
only to resume at a later date.

1702
01:28:57,165 --> 01:28:58,826
This one'll go,
this one'll shatter.

1703
01:29:00,168 --> 01:29:03,103
The night before Jesse's plea
we stayed up all night.

1704
01:29:03,171 --> 01:29:04,763
Maybe I shot the videotape

1705
01:29:04,839 --> 01:29:07,000
so that I wouldn't
have to remember it myself.

1706
01:29:08,176 --> 01:29:09,768
It's a possibility

1707
01:29:09,844 --> 01:29:12,677
because I don't really remember
it outside of the tape.

1708
01:29:14,516 --> 01:29:16,780
Like when your parents take
pictures of you

1709
01:29:16,851 --> 01:29:17,943
do you remember being there

1710
01:29:18,019 --> 01:29:19,452
or do you remember
just the photograph

1711
01:29:19,521 --> 01:29:20,681
hanging on the wall?

1712
01:29:23,858 --> 01:29:31,788
Even if I'm facing the worst
scenario possible tomorrow

1713
01:29:31,866 --> 01:29:34,027
and for every day
following it

1714
01:29:35,704 --> 01:29:40,198
I have to think tonight
that it's not gonna be that bad.

1715
01:29:42,210 --> 01:29:43,802
Goodness knows

1716
01:29:43,878 --> 01:29:45,368
I don't want to look
like my father.

1717
01:29:46,715 --> 01:29:49,479
Goodness knows,
I want to separate myself

1718
01:29:49,551 --> 01:29:52,145
from Arnold Friedman
as much as possible

1719
01:29:52,220 --> 01:29:53,983
and I'm not throwing
chairs tomorrow.

1720
01:29:54,055 --> 01:29:55,215
Good.

1721
01:30:00,895 --> 01:30:04,661
And if this trial
were postponed for 3 years

1722
01:30:04,733 --> 01:30:06,064
in 3 years, I would win.

1723
01:30:07,569 --> 01:30:09,503
But here today,
at this point

1724
01:30:09,571 --> 01:30:11,334
trying to start a trial
in two weeks

1725
01:30:11,406 --> 01:30:12,998
I would lose this trial.

1726
01:30:13,074 --> 01:30:14,336
We feel this way

1727
01:30:14,409 --> 01:30:17,071
and that is
what would happen.

1728
01:30:34,596 --> 01:30:35,756
So what are you thinking, Jess?

1729
01:30:41,102 --> 01:30:42,865
I'm not.

1730
01:30:42,937 --> 01:30:44,928
You're avoiding?

1731
01:30:54,949 --> 01:30:56,109
Well, I gotta eat something.

1732
01:30:58,787 --> 01:30:59,879
I'm proud to say

1733
01:30:59,954 --> 01:31:03,890
I've managed to leave barely
any gas in the car.

1734
01:31:03,958 --> 01:31:05,050
See, just our luck

1735
01:31:05,126 --> 01:31:06,889
we'll be trapped
at the house.

1736
01:31:06,961 --> 01:31:08,622
We'll run out of gas
at the house.

1737
01:31:14,969 --> 01:31:16,732
- You a child molester, Jess?
- Nope.

1738
01:31:16,805 --> 01:31:17,897
Did you ever do it?

1739
01:31:17,972 --> 01:31:19,064
Never touched a kid.

1740
01:31:19,140 --> 01:31:20,402
Did you do what
they said you did?

1741
01:31:20,475 --> 01:31:21,908
I never touched a kid.

1742
01:31:21,976 --> 01:31:24,570
I never saw my father
touch a kid.

1743
01:31:24,646 --> 01:31:25,738
Good.

1744
01:31:25,814 --> 01:31:27,145
Yeah, but still,
you must have done it.

1745
01:31:28,149 --> 01:31:30,242
Yeah, but surely
something has happened.

1746
01:31:30,318 --> 01:31:31,751
It must, something.

1747
01:31:31,820 --> 01:31:32,912
Because the police
say it's true.

1748
01:31:32,987 --> 01:31:34,079
OK, you never
touched a kid, right?

1749
01:31:34,155 --> 01:31:35,417
Well, if something happened

1750
01:31:35,490 --> 01:31:36,980
it didn't happen
while I was there.

1751
01:31:38,326 --> 01:31:39,918
And it was a minimal incident

1752
01:31:39,994 --> 01:31:42,588
because the kid didn't
say anything about it.

1753
01:31:42,664 --> 01:31:44,097
But the police,
how could they be lying?

1754
01:31:44,165 --> 01:31:45,325
Shut up, Seth.

1755
01:31:48,670 --> 01:31:49,762
The children

1756
01:31:49,838 --> 01:31:53,934
the 14 children in this case
are clearly victims.

1757
01:31:54,008 --> 01:31:55,771
No one could ever argue that.

1758
01:31:55,844 --> 01:31:58,608
The real culprit here
is Arnold Friedman.

1759
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:00,272
The man is a monster.

1760
01:32:00,348 --> 01:32:02,339
He abused him
and he molested him.

1761
01:32:03,351 --> 01:32:04,443
This can't be overlooked.

1762
01:32:04,519 --> 01:32:07,613
I can't believe we live
in such a cold society

1763
01:32:07,689 --> 01:32:10,123
that no one could look at this
man and understand that.

1764
01:32:10,191 --> 01:32:12,455
My father raised me confused

1765
01:32:12,527 --> 01:32:14,461
about what was right
and what was wrong

1766
01:32:14,529 --> 01:32:17,191
and I realize now
how terribly wrong it all was.

1767
01:32:19,033 --> 01:32:21,866
I wish I could have done
something to stop it sooner.

1768
01:32:23,538 --> 01:32:25,130
I wish there was something
I could have done.

1769
01:32:25,206 --> 01:32:26,537
I'm very, I'm

1770
01:32:30,044 --> 01:32:31,534
I'm just so sorry it happened.

1771
01:32:32,881 --> 01:32:36,146
Judge Boklan
sternly looked down

1772
01:32:36,217 --> 01:32:40,153
and said that she recommended
to the parole board

1773
01:32:40,221 --> 01:32:46,649
that he serve the maximum period
of time permitted by law

1774
01:32:46,728 --> 01:32:53,327
a statement which I felt
was harsh and unnecessary

1775
01:32:53,401 --> 01:32:57,064
to a 19-year-old
under these circumstances.

1776
01:32:58,406 --> 01:32:59,498
Jesse was a victim.

1777
01:32:59,574 --> 01:33:02,168
There's no question,
Jesse was a victim

1778
01:33:02,243 --> 01:33:04,234
but even when he was caught

1779
01:33:05,747 --> 01:33:10,684
Jesse never expressed any kind
of sympathy for these kids

1780
01:33:10,752 --> 01:33:12,344
and as a matter of fact

1781
01:33:12,420 --> 01:33:14,513
on the day that
the plea was taken

1782
01:33:14,589 --> 01:33:17,854
Jesse was dancing and singing on
the courthouse steps

1783
01:33:17,926 --> 01:33:21,692
while being videotaped by
his two brothers.

1784
01:33:21,763 --> 01:33:23,594
My brain hurts!

1785
01:33:25,934 --> 01:33:28,198
It'll have to come out.

1786
01:33:28,269 --> 01:33:31,204
My brain, but I'm using it!

1787
01:33:31,272 --> 01:33:32,864
But I'm using it!

1788
01:33:32,941 --> 01:33:34,101
Nurse!

1789
01:33:35,109 --> 01:33:36,872
Nurse!

1790
01:33:36,945 --> 01:33:38,378
They were taking pictures.

1791
01:33:38,446 --> 01:33:40,710
I remember someone
brought that to my attention.

1792
01:33:40,782 --> 01:33:42,044
We looked out the window.

1793
01:33:42,116 --> 01:33:43,344
Because I'm saying
to myself

1794
01:33:43,418 --> 01:33:44,715
"This is very bizarre. "

1795
01:33:44,786 --> 01:33:48,552
I mean he's about to go to jail
for the next 6 to 18 years

1796
01:33:48,623 --> 01:33:49,885
and he's out on
the courtroom steps

1797
01:33:49,958 --> 01:33:52,392
in some sort of
theatrical performance.

1798
01:33:52,460 --> 01:33:53,893
That is so funny,
when they're all

1799
01:33:53,962 --> 01:33:57,227
I think it was about
distracting ourselves

1800
01:33:57,298 --> 01:33:58,560
not necessarily
distracting Jesse.

1801
01:33:58,633 --> 01:33:59,793
Jesse was

1802
01:34:02,637 --> 01:34:04,229
I think he was
the most comfortable

1803
01:34:04,305 --> 01:34:05,636
about the whole situation.

1804
01:34:07,976 --> 01:34:09,136
You know

1805
01:34:10,645 --> 01:34:12,078
I don't know how
he has always been

1806
01:34:12,146 --> 01:34:14,307
the most comfortable about it,
but he has.

1807
01:34:15,650 --> 01:34:17,083
OK, right about now

1808
01:34:17,151 --> 01:34:20,086
we've been waiting for
a good two hours or so now

1809
01:34:20,154 --> 01:34:22,418
because evidently the parents

1810
01:34:22,490 --> 01:34:25,425
stormed Denis Dillon's
office this morning

1811
01:34:25,493 --> 01:34:27,757
when they received
the news last night

1812
01:34:27,829 --> 01:34:29,262
that I was to plead guilty

1813
01:34:29,330 --> 01:34:31,093
and they were not aware
of this fact.

1814
01:34:31,165 --> 01:34:33,599
They were not even aware
that negotiations were underway.

1815
01:34:33,668 --> 01:34:36,262
They did not want me
to have less than 10 to 30

1816
01:34:36,337 --> 01:34:38,271
and there are a lot of people

1817
01:34:38,339 --> 01:34:40,273
probably making all sorts of
angry statements

1818
01:34:40,341 --> 01:34:41,433
at this point in time.

1819
01:34:41,509 --> 01:34:44,444
I can imagine
what they're discussing.

1820
01:34:44,512 --> 01:34:47,675
The meeting must have,
just like our family.

1821
01:34:49,017 --> 01:34:51,451
Well, there wasn't really
much of them anyway

1822
01:34:51,519 --> 01:34:53,111
but that means
the meeting's over.

1823
01:34:53,187 --> 01:34:54,677
That means
the meeting's over.

1824
01:34:59,527 --> 01:35:00,687
Go ask them, Jess.

1825
01:35:02,697 --> 01:35:03,857
You hold it.
I'm not holding it.

1826
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:07,360
Should I do it, Jess?

1827
01:35:18,379 --> 01:35:19,641
Oh, my god.

1828
01:35:19,714 --> 01:35:21,648
I can't believe this.

1829
01:35:21,716 --> 01:35:23,809
Oh, my god.

1830
01:35:23,885 --> 01:35:26,149
He raped my son!

1831
01:35:26,220 --> 01:35:27,482
Get them away from me!

1832
01:35:27,555 --> 01:35:29,318
They're animals.

1833
01:35:29,390 --> 01:35:30,880
Oh, my god,
I don't believe it.

1834
01:35:36,397 --> 01:35:37,557
Wow.

1835
01:37:00,815 --> 01:37:02,578
After Jesse went to jail

1836
01:37:02,650 --> 01:37:04,242
I know my friends
said to me

1837
01:37:04,318 --> 01:37:07,754
"Don't you feel, like,
terrible being alone

1838
01:37:07,822 --> 01:37:10,256
in such a big house?"

1839
01:37:10,324 --> 01:37:12,485
I said, "No, I feel calm. "

1840
01:37:13,661 --> 01:37:16,425
That's when I really started
becoming a person

1841
01:37:16,497 --> 01:37:18,931
and started to live.

1842
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:20,991
Elaine divorced him
while he was in prison.

1843
01:37:22,003 --> 01:37:23,265
He settled into life there

1844
01:37:23,337 --> 01:37:25,601
You can't say
it was good in prison

1845
01:37:25,673 --> 01:37:27,834
but it was as good
as it could get for him.

1846
01:37:29,010 --> 01:37:31,274
But of course,
the torment continued

1847
01:37:31,345 --> 01:37:33,506
and got worse because of Jesse.

1848
01:37:34,515 --> 01:37:36,005
My brother never
got over the guilt.

1849
01:37:37,018 --> 01:37:39,111
He had talked about
taking his life

1850
01:37:39,187 --> 01:37:42,122
because he had this insurance
policy he had taken out.

1851
01:37:42,190 --> 01:37:44,454
I think it was $250,000,
1/4 million

1852
01:37:44,525 --> 01:37:46,789
and Jesse was the beneficiary.

1853
01:37:46,861 --> 01:37:49,625
He said, "This is the only thing
I have left to give Jesse

1854
01:37:49,697 --> 01:37:50,789
So he has money
when he gets out

1855
01:37:50,865 --> 01:37:52,628
and he can make some kind of
life for himself

1856
01:37:52,700 --> 01:37:55,294
because I've screwed it up
otherwise for him. "

1857
01:37:55,369 --> 01:37:58,805
By that time, that clause
in the insurance policy

1858
01:37:58,873 --> 01:38:02,707
where suicide was payable
had come into effect.

1859
01:38:05,546 --> 01:38:07,639
And this is
the coroner's report.

1860
01:38:07,715 --> 01:38:11,048
It describes the cause of death
as doxepin intoxication

1861
01:38:12,220 --> 01:38:13,812
which basically means
that Arnold took

1862
01:38:13,888 --> 01:38:16,220
a massive overdose
of antidepressants.

1863
01:38:19,393 --> 01:38:21,327
I took a deep breath
and I said

1864
01:38:21,395 --> 01:38:22,657
"It's over, David.

1865
01:38:22,730 --> 01:38:23,822
He's out of his misery.

1866
01:38:23,898 --> 01:38:25,058
It's over. "

1867
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:27,492
I thought it was a blessing

1868
01:38:27,568 --> 01:38:30,002
because the guilt
he was carrying

1869
01:38:30,071 --> 01:38:31,402
he was so unhappy.

1870
01:38:34,075 --> 01:38:36,566
He was out
of his misery.

1871
01:38:37,912 --> 01:38:39,004
The rest of the family wasn't

1872
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:40,240
but he was.

1873
01:38:41,415 --> 01:38:42,746
I found it a blessing.

1874
01:38:44,585 --> 01:38:51,184
Let me entertain you

1875
01:38:51,259 --> 01:38:56,356
Let me make you smile.

1876
01:38:56,430 --> 01:38:58,694
It's unbelievably difficult.

1877
01:38:58,766 --> 01:39:00,199
I have to read
these horrible letters

1878
01:39:00,268 --> 01:39:02,862
about my brother being
almost killed in prison.

1879
01:39:02,937 --> 01:39:05,201
My friends call me,
I'm crying.

1880
01:39:05,273 --> 01:39:07,707
"Why are you crying?"
I can't tell them.

1881
01:39:07,775 --> 01:39:08,867
None of the people
that do what I do

1882
01:39:08,943 --> 01:39:10,103
know about this story.

1883
01:39:11,779 --> 01:39:14,543
Just the intimation
of something like this

1884
01:39:14,615 --> 01:39:15,946
can ruin someone's career.

1885
01:39:17,618 --> 01:39:19,882
And I'm always afraid
that's going to happen.

1886
01:39:19,954 --> 01:39:26,223
So let me entertain you

1887
01:39:26,294 --> 01:39:33,791
And we'll have
a real good time

1888
01:39:38,973 --> 01:39:42,966
I feel I will never
really know the truth.

1889
01:39:45,146 --> 01:39:47,410
But the one truthful thing

1890
01:39:47,481 --> 01:39:49,642
or the honest thing we know

1891
01:39:50,818 --> 01:39:52,911
Howard loved his brother.

1892
01:39:52,987 --> 01:39:54,750
Howard loved his family.

1893
01:39:54,822 --> 01:39:55,982
Loves his family.

1894
01:39:59,994 --> 01:40:01,586
And I believed him
when he said

1895
01:40:01,662 --> 01:40:03,653
he didn't do
those terrible things.

1896
01:40:04,665 --> 01:40:05,825
I believed him.

1897
01:40:07,001 --> 01:40:09,663
Arnold had a need
to confess

1898
01:40:11,672 --> 01:40:13,503
and he had a need
to go to jail.

1899
01:40:16,010 --> 01:40:19,343
And the sad thing is
that he took his son with him.

1900
01:42:11,459 --> 01:42:12,721
What's the term about families?

1901
01:42:12,793 --> 01:42:13,953
Dysfunctional?

1902
01:42:15,963 --> 01:42:17,123
Numero uno.

1903
01:42:37,985 --> 01:42:39,646
It was not the way
it was supposed to end.

1904
01:42:41,489 --> 01:42:44,083
People were supposed to realize
that all of this was nonsense

1905
01:42:44,158 --> 01:42:47,650
and we'd try to go back to
living our normal lives.

1906
01:42:50,998 --> 01:42:52,989
Hey! Hi, everyone!

1907
01:42:59,340 --> 01:43:02,776
I would have to stare at Arnold
across the dinner table

1908
01:43:02,843 --> 01:43:04,333
and it was just
the two of us.

1909
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:08,614
There was really
nothing between us

1910
01:43:08,682 --> 01:43:11,515
except these children
that we yelled at.

1911
01:43:28,035 --> 01:43:31,801
We named the cottage
"Peaceful Pond Cottage"

1912
01:43:31,872 --> 01:43:35,865
because we were looking for
a place of healing and peace.

1913
01:43:39,046 --> 01:43:41,480
Any comment on
your personal life, sir?

1914
01:43:41,549 --> 01:43:42,709
It's personal.

1915
01:44:15,916 --> 01:44:17,008
Oh, my god.

1916
01:44:17,084 --> 01:44:20,076
Hey, how you doing?

1917
01:44:21,922 --> 01:44:23,856
Oh, my god.

1918
01:44:23,924 --> 01:44:25,516
Oh, my god.

1919
01:44:25,593 --> 01:44:27,254
Yes! Finally.

1920
01:44:35,769 --> 01:44:38,363
- Is that him?
- That could be he.

1921
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:39,701
Shit.

1922
01:44:39,773 --> 01:44:40,933
Oh, my god.

1923
01:44:49,283 --> 01:44:50,944
Oh, my god.

1924
01:44:56,290 --> 01:44:57,450
Room service.

1925
01:45:02,630 --> 01:45:04,222
Oh, god.

1926
01:45:04,298 --> 01:45:06,289
You order a son?
You looking for me?

1927
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:18,073
Surprise.

1928
01:45:18,145 --> 01:45:19,237
Hi. Look at me.

1929
01:45:19,313 --> 01:45:20,473
Look.